3.5 sorcerer build help

[jdizzlean]

ok, I'm not very big on casters in general, right now i'm playing a druid who is not really doing very well in the group. I've been told that generally speaking i'm playing a divine sorcerer basically as i just pick a few spells at various levels and go from there. I'm not really switching out my spells for the day w/ any real optimization in mind. I'm sure my death is imminent, either at my hands or the DM's. So i'm looking at building a sorcerer. Generally speaking, most Eberron material is out, i'd have to have a damn good argument and reason to take it, and then hope to convince the DM who hates it w/ a burning passion...

Right now, i'm looking at a white dragonspawn lesser Cansin (assuming that's legal?) ( I can't seem to find the base Cansin, and am only getting the stats for it based off a realmshelp page...)
rolled stats are: S8 D14 C13 I12 W14 C18
racial bonus's would be cansin: +2 Int/Cha d'spawn: +2 Dex/Con

No flaws allowed, so please don't immediately jump to flaw this and flaw that.

the 1 LA is free, so it's not a buyoff situation. If i can't do the above, or a similar race like illumian, i'd just go w/ DWK and do the venerable thing, that would leave me w/ a free +1 template to add to that, of which i'm not certain what to take...

Probably go w/ the metamagic specialist ACF from PHB2 which dumps the familiar. I know i can gain one back later w/ a feat, but what are better options to go w/ then the base ones listed in the book?

PrC's wise, I'm not sure. Maybe Initiate of the 7fold Veil, or Rainbow Servant

Feats: Again, not sure, right now, Twin Spell, Energy Substitution, Possibly Arcane Thesis (but i'm unsure of the mechanics of that) Practiced Spellcaster if I went w/ anything that reduces CL of course, Invisible Spell, Firey Burst is as far as my thoughts take me.

Spellswise, I haven't chosen anything yet. I'd say primarily a blaster, but you gotta have "some" buffing or bfc or other options thrown into your list as well, all damage all the time isn't the plan. I have seen that Wings of Cover is the cat's Meow.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The top of every realmshelp page says where something is from, that says Dragon issue 297. The Dragondex (http://www.aeolia.net/dragondex/articles-subject.html) says it's in issue 297, page 63. Put Dragon 297 pdf into google.

A Cansin is an Outsider, and the Dragonspawn template can only be applied to Humanoids and Monstrous Humanoid. Put the template on a Desert Kobold (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertKobolds) or a Jungle Kobold (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#jungleKobolds), and use the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a). This does not use any Dragonwrought shenanigans, as Dragonwrought makes it impossible to use White Dragonspawn.

A few things to keep in mind about White Dragonspawn:
1. It was updated in a later book, stating that if the character is no longer under the complete control of the dragon who created them, the template is +2 LA higher.
2. The Dragonlance books do not bear the D&D logo, they're just as valid for use in a non-Dragonlance D&D game as the d20 Modern books. The Eberron rulebooks do have the D&D logo, so they're valid D&D rulebooks regardless of what setting you're playing in. Just reflavor whatever mechanics they contain.


Druid is one of the most powerful classes in the game, you likely have a class feature that's more powerful than someone else's entire character (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0346.html). Read up on some Druid guides, prepare some better spells, Wild Shape more, replace your animal companion with a stronger* one (stronger in general, not necessarily one from a higher level list). If you made poor feat choices, see if you can retrain those (PH2 Chapter 8) or hire an NPC Psion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#spell) to use Psychic Reformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm) on you.

[Nifft]

(...)

On the one hand, I like helping build casters.

On the other hand, I can't figure out the intent of that quote in your sig.

Could you clarify your intent there?

Cheers, -N

[jdizzlean]

my druid's only lvl 6 right now, it's pretty slow progression as we're only playing 1/month. I've read the guides, it's just that I'm just not super comfy as a caster, i've always been a rogue or a ranger, or the like. Every other casterish character I've ever built usually never goes past 4-5 due to shorter running games.

I know that straight druid can be game breaking, i'm just saying "I SUCK" as a druid :)

plus, lesser cansin are not outsiders, but planetouched (humanoids), so not sure if that makes it ok or not. I've seen arguements for and against it, but that is simply the way of this board

[jdizzlean]

On the one hand, I like helping build casters.

On the other hand, I can't figure out the intent of that quote in your sig.

Could you clarify your intent there?

Cheers, -N


haha, i saw you post that in some thread quite awhile ago, I just like how that pretty much sums up the "you can do whatever you want" in d&d thought process.

nothing but love.

[Nifft]

haha, i saw you post that in some thread quite awhile ago, I just like how that pretty much sums up the "you can do whatever you want" in d&d thought process.

nothing but love.

Cool. :cool: I saw your sig a few times and thought, "Hmm, maybe I should have used '=' instead of ',' there."


Anyway about Sorcerer:

1/ Do trade away your Familiar, and then do buy it back with Obtain Familiar -- the feat gives you a Familiar which scales with caster level, so it'll benefit from PrCs in a way that your base class Familiar would not. Metamagic Specialist is solid. Another alternative might be the Dragonblood Sorcerer racial sub levels (from RotDr) which give you access to UMD, and give you Draconic Heritage as a bonus feat.


2/ About the free LA +1, what about the Feytouched template? Last guy on this page: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030405a

You get immunity to mind-affecting effects (which is pretty sweet at any level), and +2 Charisma, and Charm Person 1/day which helps get you into Mindbender 1 without costing a spell known.

I think that your Dragonwrought Kobold feat would come after this template, so in the end you'd be a Dragon (not a Fey). Maybe you have faerie dragon wings though.


3) Spells would depend on your total level. What level is this character?

[jdizzlean]

this would be a starting at level 1 character (if for a new game) or 6 or possibly 7 if i kill my druid off in the near future.

[Goaty14]

If you're looking for a spontaneous druid, just beg your DM to be a WIS-only spirit shaman. Problem Solved.

Also, the spirit shaman can change his spontaneous list daily, so if you ever have the urge to become a blaster for a day, go for it!

[Nifft]

this would be a starting at level 1 character (if for a new game) or 6 or possibly 7 if i kill my druid off in the near future.

Mid-optimization, it's tough to argue against being a level 1 Human with Precocious Apprentice (scorching ray) + Fiery Burst [Reserve], but that's a very different direction.

What level do you expect the new game to reach? If you're going to see level 6, then Dragonwrought Kobold is redeemed by Greater Rite of Draconic Passage.

[jdizzlean]

the previous campaign of which i wasn't part of the group went to 20, so over time, i expect we'll get into the upper levels more likely than not

[Nifft]

the previous campaign of which i wasn't part of the group went to 20, so over time, i expect we'll get into the upper levels more likely than not

Nice, so long-term planning is viable.

Can you retrain? If so, then you might consider being a Silverbrow Human for Precocious Apprentice + Fiery Burst -> retrain later.


Rainbow Servant is not great for a Sorcerer. You don't have enough spells known to benefit as much as a Wizard, and you can't cast from your whole spell list like a Warmage.

I'd suggest looking at Sand Shaper, which gives you a huge number of new spells known at level 1, and then some funky sand-shaping powers over the next 8 levels. Skip level 10 unless you really want to be Imotep.


You probably want a Bloodline feat from Dragon Compendium. Is that book legal at this table?

[jdizzlean]

Nice, so long-term planning is viable.

Can you retrain? If so, then you might consider being a Silverbrow Human for Precocious Apprentice + Fiery Burst -> retrain later.


Rainbow Servant is not great for a Sorcerer. You don't have enough spells known to benefit as much as a Wizard, and you can't cast from your whole spell list like a Warmage.

I'd suggest looking at Sand Shaper, which gives you a huge number of new spells known at level 1, and then some funky sand-shaping powers over the next 8 levels. Skip level 10 unless you really want to be Imotep.


You probably want a Bloodline feat from Dragon Compendium. Is that book legal at this table?

yep, all 3.5 material is ok w/ the exception of eberron stuff. Dragon mag is generally ok, not sure about dungeon. I've never messed w/ retraining, so it hasn't come up, generally speaking, if we're unhappy, we just roll up a new character and go w/ standard WBL to replace what we've got.