Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire

[JadedDM]

I just picked it up today. I haven't made it very far yet, but I did transfer my character over from the first game. He's a human priest of Eothas...so this should be pretty interesting.

Anyone else playing?

[Sajiri]

I am! I havent got too far yet either (damn work) but I love it.

I played a dualwield cipher in the first game, this time playing a dualwield spellblade instead. It's hilarious sneaking up behind something, hitting them with a dagger then watching them explode with one sneak attack.

I've been really enjoying what little I've seen of it so far.

[Cespenar]

I didn't keep my save game, and the ways you can arrange the past events of PoE1 for PoE2 is so detailed that I realized I wasn't remembering maybe 80% of it. I don't know if that speaks about my early senility or the blandness of the lore, but eh, it's an Obsidian game so I shouldn't complain much.

Anywho, created a Priest of Berath, which chimes well with the dead-seeing aspect of the Watcher, as well as the spoilery first mission briefing at the start of the game.

There are some nice ease-of-use upgrades they put in, but overall I'd enjoy the combat more if it were a tiny bit slower. Closer to Infinity Engine, maybe.

[Morty]

I just bought it yesterday, but I just fooled around before properly importing my save, since they're supposed to release a patch fixing save import bugs today. The apparently inevitable fate of Obsidian games on release aside, it's been great. Of course, I followed the backer beta closely so I knew a lot of what to expect.

[houlio]

There are some nice ease-of-use upgrades they put in, but overall I'd enjoy the combat more if it were a tiny bit slower. Closer to Infinity Engine, maybe.

I think you can modify combat speed with the dial down below. I think there's a slider along the bottom for adjusting it.

I've also been playing. I messed around a little bit with a Mindstalker (cipher/rogue), but I decided to go back and run through the first game and actually do White March this time. I love the dual classes and subclasses. They add a lot of variability to the game and are super fun to use. I also love that you can now dual wield pistols/blunderbusses.

[NRSASD]

I am! Freaking loving it so far. I'm actually listening to the Deadfire sea shanties as I type this haha. Currently playing a Rauatai Coastal Amauma Soulblade (cipher variant), wandering around Neketaka and picking fights with those bobbit worms (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/Eunice_aphroditois.jpg/800px-Eunice_aphroditois.jpg) (caution: scary worms). I like the combat system a lot better than Pillars 1, because they managed to make fights both slower tactically and quicker in duration.

I'm very curious to see where it goes!

The only thing that I've disliked so far is the narrator's voice, which is quite a pity. I loved reaching chapter points in Baldur's Gate because the narrator was so awesome.

[Aotrs Commander]

I just bought it yesterday, but I just fooled around before properly importing my save, since they're supposed to release a patch fixing save import bugs today. The apparently inevitable fate of Obsidian games on release aside, it's been great. Of course, I followed the backer beta closely so I knew a lot of what to expect.

They released the beta patch over the weekend, which supposedly fix the import patch for Edér (so I started!), but apparently didn't. Oh well. (Edér's backstory wasn't so unreconcilable with my end-game that I was dragged out, so...) No ETA on patch according to the forums.



I've finished the first island and after a bit of fracking around, made it to the next story-island.

Like it so far, save for the niggles about feeling skills are especially short and wizards and priests feel a bit low on spells (though grimores seem to fix that for wizards).

Multiclassing is jolly, though, after a LOT of debate, I kepy my cipher single class, even though I barely ever used any powers beyond Amplified Wave in PoE.


I think you can modify combat speed with the dial down below. I think there's a slider along the bottom for adjusting it.

I found in PoE 1 I had to dial the combat speed back so I could be cognisant of what was going on - it was either that or "pause on completion of action."



By-the-by everyone, a few FYI for everyone I picked up myself:



That little diamond above the dialogue box that looks like it should open up the cpnversation history? Actually DOEs, but it's a bit erratic and you kind of need to click towards the top. I say this, because I sturggled until someone else told me.#



Now, seeing as there seems to be a number of people completely baffled by the ship's rations thing on the Obs forums, I suppose I might also say it. Ship rations need to be equipped in the ship screen (.e. "h" or the ship icon) in the dobule row at the top out of your stash. (Just like equipping anything else.) The crew will eat/drink the slots right to left.



Vis a vis Ship combat:

Upgrade your starting cannons (entering all the Seafarer's Scavenger hunt (https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/95782-the-deadfire-scavenger-codes-we-found-them-all-cutthroat-cosmo-bonus-pets/) codes gets you some nice starting gear for your ship, plus Cutthroat Cosmo's party boost is pretty darn good!) and hire on some extra crew from the first island (from the port store), so you have enough dudes to fill the slots and man your cannons before tangling with enemy ships.

Grapeshot and Chainshot's effects (as described) may currently be reversed, not sure.

If you do a "hold position" before firing, you get an accuracy bonus; if you do a jibe, you get an accuacy penalty.

Unclear so far if you can disable a ship entirely with ship combat (i.e. knock out the sails and all wound the above-deck crew), or whether sinking the ship has more or less rewards than boarding; also unsure how or even if you can actually maneuver to be on a specific facing to an enemy ship (i.e. how you manage to get, say, behind them once you've shot their sails off so you can shoot unimpeded), other whether you'd I dunno, just have to get lucky or something.

[Cikomyr]

Is the story more engaging that the start of PoE? I felt completely remote from the events of the world in the original. Has the early writing improved?

I ask because i dont doubt for a second that PoE overall writing was great. Its just that it didnt grabbed me

[Morty]

They released the beta patch over the weekend, which supposedly fix the import patch for Edér (so I started!), but apparently didn't. Oh well. (Edér's backstory wasn't so unreconcilable with my end-game that I was dragged out, so...) No ETA on patch according to the forums.

I've heard it was supposed to go up today, but it hasn't yet. God dammit, Obsidian.

I guess this gives me more time to decide if I want to take Devoted and Streetfighter with my Fighter/Rogue. Together they provide a lot of critical damage bonuses, which would work with my plan to use a single one-handed weapon... but only if I'm flanked and bloodied, so it's basically an exercise in living on the edge.

[Cespenar]

I think you can modify combat speed with the dial down below. I think there's a slider along the bottom for adjusting it.

Yep, thanks. Apparently there is one.


Is the story more engaging that the start of PoE? I felt completely remote from the events of the world in the original. Has the early writing improved?

I ask because i dont doubt for a second that PoE overall writing was great. Its just that it didnt grabbed me

It's a bit more engaging, because in this one the antagonist starts off by directly messing with your stuff and then wandering away, instead of being an unconnectable nobody villain like in PoE1. Still a bit early for me to tell, though.

[houlio]

Is the story more engaging that the start of PoE? I felt completely remote from the events of the world in the original. Has the early writing improved?

I ask because i dont doubt for a second that PoE overall writing was great. Its just that it didnt grabbed me

Act 1 in PoE honestly felt like an extended tutorial. You have way more clear of a goal straight out of the gate, although you still have to figure out all the steps to achieve it in Deadfire. Also, you get a lot more of the choose your own adventure text-based interludes, which were some of my favorite things in the game in general.

My favorite quest so far has been blowing up Benweth, the pirate who attacks you right away, by sabotaging his harpsichord.

[Sajiri]

So already a free dlc (https://twitter.com/WorldofEternity/status/996500658567053312) is announced for next week. Nothing huge, but hey, rum!

[Cikomyr]

Act 1 in PoE honestly felt like an extended tutorial. You have way more clear of a goal straight out of the gate, although you still have to figure out all the steps to achieve it in Deadfire. Also, you get a lot more of the choose your own adventure text-based interludes, which were some of my favorite things in the game in general.

My favorite quest so far has been blowing up Benweth, the pirate who attacks you right away, by sabotaging his harpsichord.

Act1 of Tyranny also was an ex tutorial, but i felt engaged already...

I think i only really got PoE when i finally got the setting: you are in Fantasy america that had a massive religion-based civil war between the colonists.

At the start, you are camping on Fantasy Native American sacred land.

[Cespenar]

Act1 of Tyranny also was an ex tutorial, but i felt engaged already...

Tyranny was better almost in every sense other than NPCs. PoE1's biggest strength was its NPCs, in my opinion.

[Cozzer]

I recreated my sarcastic, good-hearted Cypher and his history (since I didn't bother re-finishing PoE1 after doing the White March, but I wanted my White March choices to carry over to Deadfire) and I'm having quite a bit of fun with the game. I'm exploring the main city after having finished the quest of the first island, and I think I just got all the main characters in the team. Now for the hardest part: who will be in my main party?

I'm not a fan of RTWP combat, but Deadfire seems to have evolved it to the point where I find it fun. Let's see if it keeps being fun as I go on...

[The Hellbug]

I think i only really got PoE when i finally got the setting: you are in Fantasy america that had a massive religion-based civil war between the colonists.

At the start, you are camping on Fantasy Native American sacred land.

I also think that one of the weaknesses of the first game was that it didn't do a great job of showing that this is a society on the brink of collapse. This is a country where no children have been born for years, and what do you see? One crazy lord (who seems more motivated by xenophobia and religious hatred than the aforementioned societal collapse) and one riot that gets cleaned up before you get back into the city. This is especially true in act 2--I think that the game tells you that things are dire, but doesn't do a very good job of showing it outside of Thaos's weird meddling.

I do agree, though--I love the setting, mostly because it takes something cool with its souls and whatnot and really does something with it. It makes the world's unique cosmology very important to the way the world operates.

[NRSASD]

I admit I've been a little disappointed by the quality of the questlines, at least compared to the former, but I just wandered into a batch of really good quests that restored my faith in their writers.

Just out of curiosity, how did you guys resolve the Tikawara fruit theft storyline? Or Poko Kahara? Please respond in spoiler tags for everyone who hasn't reached those islands yet!

[JadedDM]

I finally left the first island, and was quickly attacked by a pirate along the way. And...I'm a little confused.

The pirate ship in question was weaker than my own (less hull points, and only 4 crew members). I have a full crew, plus my party members, plus the two custom party members I made, giving me a full complement of 15 people.

So rather than blowing the ship out of the water, I decide to board them...and am completely overwhelmed with the 20 dudes that just rush us. I'm completely unable to win this fight, and have to reload several times, then finally give up and just revert to an older save and avoid the ship entirely.

Why did the game tell me the ship only had 4 crew members then?

[Chen]

I admit I've been a little disappointed by the quality of the questlines, at least compared to the former, but I just wandered into a batch of really good quests that restored my faith in their writers.

Just out of curiosity, how did you guys resolve the Tikawara fruit theft storyline? Or Poko Kahara? Please respond in spoiler tags for everyone who hasn't reached those islands yet!

Fruit
Found the real thief, blamed the ******* instead. The guy didn't actually kill the ******* though.

Poko Kahara
Re-ignited the Ardra pillar. Let the VTC know they could come harvest it.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Is it easier to build characters in this game than it was for the first game? I've never even gotten past the very beginning of the first game because I can't figure out a way to build a character who can get the best outcome of each quest and conversation and stuff so I'm not locked into a failure state because a conversation option is locked since Stat X isn't high enough. :smallannoyed:

[Sajiri]

Is it easier to build characters in this game than it was for the first game? I've never even gotten past the very beginning of the first game because I can't figure out a way to build a character who can get the best outcome of each quest and conversation and stuff so I'm not locked into a failure state because a conversation option is locked since Stat X isn't high enough. :smallannoyed:

I think it is. There are of course some interactions you wont be able to get based on things like your character class and background, but what I've seen with skills is that in many interactions your party members' skills/stats will give a boost to your own.

[Cespenar]

I finally left the first island, and was quickly attacked by a pirate along the way. And...I'm a little confused.

The pirate ship in question was weaker than my own (less hull points, and only 4 crew members). I have a full crew, plus my party members, plus the two custom party members I made, giving me a full complement of 15 people.

So rather than blowing the ship out of the water, I decide to board them...and am completely overwhelmed with the 20 dudes that just rush us. I'm completely unable to win this fight, and have to reload several times, then finally give up and just revert to an older save and avoid the ship entirely.

Why did the game tell me the ship only had 4 crew members then?

Yep, had the exact same fight in the exact same spot, tried like 4 times to win, to no avail. At last I reloaded and when encountering the same guys the second time, just chose the "sail away" option like 10 times.

Bit misleading there.

[Aotrs Commander]

Is it easier to build characters in this game than it was for the first game? I've never even gotten past the very beginning of the first game because I can't figure out a way to build a character who can get the best outcome of each quest and conversation and stuff so I'm not locked into a failure state because a conversation option is locked since Stat X isn't high enough. :smallannoyed:


I think it is. There are of course some interactions you wont be able to get based on things like your character class and background, but what I've seen with skills is that in many interactions your party members' skills/stats will give a boost to your own.

Stats are you only, you get party assist on (most, but not all) skill checks.

That said, you also get far less skill points (one each in two categories), so the skill checks you have to make yourself without party assistance you are likely to only be able to pass if it happens to be one of your two skills. Those are less frequent, though.

But, I think, by design, they didn't want you to be able to get all of the conversation options. Indeed, without some sort of character editor (dunno if you can do it with the console), you basically can't (well, early game anyway, you might have more chance if you can pick up lots of plus stat items).

If you're really bothered about it, somewhere about, someone did a full breakdown of the number and minimum and maximum magnitude (i.e. what you need) to pass the checks for all of the skill checks in the game. If you don't mind light spoilers (it doesn't tell you what the events are only how many, say, Perception-based dialogue options there are, and the min and max of range of them), you could look it up an attempt to optimise your skill choices to maximise your chances. (Of course, early game, you'll still be missing the options outside of your chosen strongpoints.)

Otherwise, you pick your stats, pick your skills and try and cover your bases with your party for the party-assist skill checks.

[Morty]

Ability checks are less common now, replaced by skill checks. Which the party can help you with. I'm not sure what the logic is behind picking what's checked, like Perception versus Insight. But I am glad not to see a Resolve check in every other conversation.

[NRSASD]

Fruit
Found the real thief, blamed the ******* instead. The guy didn't actually kill the ******* though.

Poko Kahara
Re-ignited the Ardra pillar. Let the VTC know they could come harvest it.

Fruit
As did I, though the Metaru warrior just sacrificed the innocent by throwing him into the harbor. I agonized over that quest for a good minute or so IRL, and still feel a little bad how it turned out.

Poko Kahara
Smashed the Pillar. For Rauatai.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Stats are you only, you get party assist on (most, but not all) skill checks.

That said, you also get far less skill points (one each in two categories), so the skill checks you have to make yourself without party assistance you are likely to only be able to pass if it happens to be one of your two skills. Those are less frequent, though.

But, I think, by design, they didn't want you to be able to get all of the conversation options. Indeed, without some sort of character editor (dunno if you can do it with the console), you basically can't (well, early game anyway, you might have more chance if you can pick up lots of plus stat items).

If you're really bothered about it, somewhere about, someone did a full breakdown of the number and minimum and maximum magnitude (i.e. what you need) to pass the checks for all of the skill checks in the game. If you don't mind light spoilers (it doesn't tell you what the events are only how many, say, Perception-based dialogue options there are, and the min and max of range of them), you could look it up an attempt to optimise your skill choices to maximise your chances. (Of course, early game, you'll still be missing the options outside of your chosen strongpoints.)

Otherwise, you pick your stats, pick your skills and try and cover your bases with your party for the party-assist skill checks.
Where would I find this guide? The wikis I've found are frustratingly incomplete. (Honestly, this is an issue I've been having with a lot of games lately. The most thorough and in-depth guides on GameFAQs seem to be exclusively for games that came out before 2010.)

How do party members help with persuasion? My experience with these kinds of games is "Only the PC has access to Diplomacy, Bluff and Intimidate as skills. All NPC party members can't even take those skills."

The only time that wasnt true was the Storm of Zehir expansion for Neverwinter Nights 2 , since you designed all four members of your party and spoke to NPCs at the same time, allowing everyone to contribute to the conversation. Still, it was always more effective to have 1 person just be the "face" of the group, and I was under the impression that Pillars of Eternity forced you to be the face anyway...

[Keltest]

Where would I find this guide? The wikis I've found are frustratingly incomplete.

How do party members help with persuasion? My experience with these kinds of games is "Only the PC has access to Diplomacy, Bluff and Intimidate as skills. All NPC party members can't even take those skills."

The only time that wasnt true was the Storm of Zehir expansion for Neverwinter Nights 2 , since you designed all four members of your party and spoke to NPCs at the same time, allowing everyone to contribute to the conversation. Still, it was always more effective to have 1 person just be the "face" of the group, and I was under the impression that Pillars of Eternity forced you to be the face anyway...

All characters have access to the same skills. Party members can "assist" you with checks, so if somebody has a bunch of points in athletics, you can benefit from a portion of that even if you don't have any yourself. It shows you what your functional total is when you level up.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

So, how does that work for persuasion checks? If a party member has a higher Diplomacy score than your Watcher, can you "let them do the talking?"

[Keltest]

So, how does that work for persuasion checks? If a party member has a higher Diplomacy score than your Watcher, can you "let them do the talking?"

The same way as it works for every other check. They "assist" you, giving you a bump to your score based on how high theirs is. It doesn't have to be higher either, you can still be assisted if you have the higher skill rank.

[Psyren]

I'll be playing this, but later on for a couple of reasons:

1) I'm still finishing up DOS2
2) Waiting means that walkthroughs and optimal runs will get fleshed out more so I don't miss content
3) I haven't beat the first one, which I definitely need to do now that I know you and some of your party members come over from it - including as (same-sex) romance options.

So yeah, I'm boarding the hype train! Just at a different station.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

My thoughts exactly, Psyren, though I am frustrated at the first game too. It feels like it punishes you for sticking to a code AND for being a hypocrite at the same time!

[Chen]

So, how does that work for persuasion checks? If a party member has a higher Diplomacy score than your Watcher, can you "let them do the talking?"

There's a base skill value (full 100% value of the skill) and then the sum of your party's skill points in that skill are checked vs a table and provide you a bonus. It's not 1 to 1 for the companion bonus. What I'm not sure of is who's base skill is used. Is it always the main char or is it whoever in the party has the highest skill?

[The Hellbug]

In dialogue it always seems to be the main character who is checked as the base (companions of course add a bonus still), but in the little 'choose-your-own-adventure' moments, you can frequently select who will be the primary actor, with the other party memebers including the main character providing the helpful friend bonus.

[Morty]

I'm likewise not sure how the dialogue checks work in Deadfire. But as far as the second game, goes, there's really not that much to say. If you want to pass checks, just make sure you've got decent Resolve and bump it up with items/food/resting, because it's massively overrepresented. The second most used stat is probably perception. The rest is used sparingly and rarely has an effect. Besides, the whole point of ability checks is that you can't get them all.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Where does that leave a perfectionist like me trying to get the best outcome for every quest in the game? :smallfrown:

[The Hellbug]

Not gonna lie, from what I can tell you don't always end up with the best conclusions to each quest via dialogue this time around.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

What do you mean? :smallconfused:

[Morty]

Where does that leave a perfectionist like me trying to get the best outcome for every quest in the game? :smallfrown:

If you want the "best" outcome, high Resolve will cover you for most of the quests where ability checks are even relevant for that.

[The Hellbug]

I mean that the endings to a number of quests aren't particularly cut-and-dry. You could make a solid argument that the nonviolent endings to a couple of them aren't totally ideal (and sometimes you just inadvertently screw things up).

[ShneekeyTheLost]

So... ran into someone doing a stream of this game, and saw how much it references the previous game. Then I saw that, at the moment, PoE is on steam sale for like 40% off, so I snapped it up and currently am playing through it. Hopefully, by the time I finish PoE1, PoE2 might go on sale and I can pick it up cheap(er) as well.

That being said, I'm kinda REALLY digging PoE. Started off with a Rogue. While the class itself is... under-performing (main character has fallen in combat more than every other character combined), having someone with a high Stealth and high Mechanics skill as well as a high Perception stat has been enormously profitable in the early game (just unlocked the Stronghold).

The biggest contribution my main character has to combat so far is a weak accuracy buff aura which is basically a lesser version of the Paladin version. I'm tempted to make him ranged instead, and see how that works, but then he won't be able to use literally any of his class abilities. Right now, he's dual-wielding because his primary abilities seem to give him an attack with each, which is pretty darn powerful.

[Morty]

Most rogue abilities work just fine with ranged weapons. The only ones that don't are various passives and modals.

[Keltest]

I mean that the endings to a number of quests aren't particularly cut-and-dry. You could make a solid argument that the nonviolent endings to a couple of them aren't totally ideal (and sometimes you just inadvertently screw things up).

Adding to this, remember that this is the Deadfire Archipelago. Its a largely lawless territory where might makes right. There are four major factions who all want you to help push their agenda, and none of them are a de-facto "good guy" faction. While some are worse than others, none of them are "this faction clearly has the best goals in mind."

[houlio]

Another argument you could make is that a lot of the special dialogue options are threats/bribes which also aren’t exactly that great as far as good guy methods go. A lot of the ones I’ve run into also don’t resolve a situation so much as give you extra information.

Also, skills have seemed to be more important overall than the stats for dialogue options.

[Anteros]

My question is if they ever got around to balancing/fixing the combat system. The combat in PoE and Tyranny was awful. Some stats were completely useless and some were mandatory. A basic weapon with armor piercing was better than a legendary weapon without it. Basically nothing even resembling balance.

[Tome]

That being said, I'm kinda REALLY digging PoE. Started off with a Rogue. While the class itself is... under-performing (main character has fallen in combat more than every other character combined), having someone with a high Stealth and high Mechanics skill as well as a high Perception stat has been enormously profitable in the early game (just unlocked the Stronghold).

The biggest contribution my main character has to combat so far is a weak accuracy buff aura which is basically a lesser version of the Paladin version. I'm tempted to make him ranged instead, and see how that works, but then he won't be able to use literally any of his class abilities. Right now, he's dual-wielding because his primary abilities seem to give him an attack with each, which is pretty darn powerful.

Ranged Rogue works fine, only a few of the abilities specify melee attacks.

Sneak Attack can be triggered off of Blinded, Flanked, Hobbled, Paralyzed, Petrified, Prone, Stuck, Stunned or Weakened. You can use your Rogue abilities to inflict some of these, but the most effective way is actually to bring along another character who can set these up. A Cipher is ideal (Mental Binding and Amplified Wave are ridiculously powerful anyway) but a Wizard can also work.

A good build might be to have high dex, perception and might, plus decent int (you'll want your status effects to last).

War Bows are pretty great for ranged weapons. Guns are a bit better early game but once you can get some attack speed boosts bows overtake them (attack speed boosts have multiplicative effects, they get better the more you have but don't work well with guns unless chanters are involved).

Take advantage of your Per Encounter strike abilities to boost your damage and lay down some status effects, grab Dirty Fighting and its Vicious Fighting upgrade for free crits, pick up Deathblows as soon as it becomes available and maybe keep Finishing Blow in reserve to instagib the last chunk of a tough enemy's health. Obviously grab weapon focus and marksman as well, extra accuracy is the best thing you can get.

There's a unique bow, Borresaine, sold by the merchant Igrun in Copperlane once you reach it fairly on. If you can scrounge the funds for it it can essentially be your rogue's primary weapon for the rest of the game, as it stuns on crits. Just upgrade the quality via enchanting when you get the chance, especially the Durgan Steel upgrade you get access to later on. You might choose to use the late game bow The Rain of Godagh Field later on, but stuns on crits is gonna be pretty potent with your crit boosting passives and being able to proc sneak attack from them.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Ranged Rogue works fine, only a few of the abilities specify melee attacks.

Sneak Attack can be triggered off of Blinded, Flanked, Hobbled, Paralyzed, Petrified, Prone, Stuck, Stunned or Weakened. You can use your Rogue abilities to inflict some of these, but the most effective way is actually to bring along another character who can set these up. A Cipher is ideal (Mental Binding and Amplified Wave are ridiculously powerful anyway) but a Wizard can also work.Yea, my wizard picked up the AoE blind as a second-level spell, but I thought Sneak Attack had a range of like 2 meters max.


A good build might be to have high dex, perception and might, plus decent int (you'll want your status effects to last).

War Bows are pretty great for ranged weapons. Guns are a bit better early game but once you can get some attack speed boosts bows overtake them (attack speed boosts have multiplicative effects, they get better the more you have but don't work well with guns unless chanters are involved).

Take advantage of your Per Encounter strike abilities to boost your damage and lay down some status effects, grab Dirty Fighting and its Vicious Fighting upgrade for free crits, pick up Deathblows as soon as it becomes available and maybe keep Finishing Blow in reserve to instagib the last chunk of a tough enemy's health. Obviously grab weapon focus and marksman as well, extra accuracy is the best thing you can get.

There's a unique bow, Borresaine, sold by the merchant Igrun in Copperlane once you reach it fairly on. If you can scrounge the funds for it it can essentially be your rogue's primary weapon for the rest of the game, as it stuns on crits. Just upgrade the quality via enchanting when you get the chance, especially the Durgan Steel upgrade you get access to later on. You might choose to use the late game bow The Rain of Godagh Field later on, but stuns on crits is gonna be pretty potent with your crit boosting passives and being able to proc sneak attack from them.

I think I accidentally did most of that, although his Int is lower than his Resolve. I just got into Copperlane, I'll have to see if I can pick that bow up. Currently have Blinding Strike and Dirty Fighting, and I think I did just pick up Vicious Fighting (that's the upgrade to Dirty Fighting for more hits to crits, right?), I'll have to pick up weapon focus and marksman as well, but it sounds like it'll turn out quite well. The only problem is that I really need a second tank to keep enemies from closing with the squishies. Currently I've got my main, a Fighter, Wizard, Priest, Chanter, and Ranger. Other than my good ol' buddy from the first town, there really isn't anyone in the group who can take a hit, and if he gets focused, not even the priest can keep him up. And if anyone draws aggro, they go down pretty fast. Maybe tell the Chanter to lay off the gun and start using sword and board, since he seems to be fairly heavily armored?

[Morty]

The two-meter restriction applies to the Backstab ability that multiplies damage from stealth and invisibility, not regular Sneak Attack.

Giving Kana a shield and solid armor and putting him on the front line is definitely viable. There's a companion you can recruit in Defiance Bay who helps with that as well.

[Tome]

The ranger's animal companion can do pretty well tying things up in melee too, assuming you take the abilities that boost it (the damage reduction one in particular).

For starting out, Eder does pretty well with plate armour, the heaviest shield you can find and a hatchet for maximum defence. The sword and shield talent is a must, giving you a massive deflection and reflex boost. However, going full defence can leave his attacks a bit weak and the AI is (depending on difficulty) aware of that and will happily break engagement to wail on your squishier party members, so make sure not to neglect his offence. This changes once you hit level 7 and pick up Overbearing Guard, which lets him knock prone anyone who tries to break engagement (and the more enemies he can engage, the more of them he can keep from going after anyone else, so things like Hold The Line and Guardian Stance are really helpful)). If I remember correctly you can pick up a belt that boosts pierce and slash DR fairly early one, which really helps Eder out for a lot of the game.

Try not to rely on Durance to heal. Priests aren't particularly good at single target heals (that would be Paladins with their Lay on Hands - you'll run into one soon in Ondra's Gift). What Priests really want to be doing is focusing on buffs. Armour of Faith in particular is great for early game survivability, whilst Blessing will boost offence. (Late game your most used 1st level spell will actually be the anti-fear prayer, because an annoying number of enemeis later on have nasty fear auras.)

[Cespenar]

Yep, from what I've seen so far, the extra options aren't strictly "complete this quest in a better way", but are placed more organically and commonly.

Also, I think the design is almost always to present at least a passable result to a "vanilla", no-special-choice run.


If you want the "best" outcome, high Resolve will cover you for most of the quests where ability checks are even relevant for that.

Say, do you get some advantage from "blocking" some visions with Resolve? I never understood why I'd use the special choice to deny myself some cool additional blurb, but I never tried.


My question is if they ever got around to balancing/fixing the combat system. The combat in PoE and Tyranny was awful. Some stats were completely useless and some were mandatory. A basic weapon with armor piercing was better than a legendary weapon without it. Basically nothing even resembling balance.

It's not a huge difference from the first one, but as far as I'm aware, there aren't straight up armor piercing weapons. There are penetration values, and even under-penetration only nerfs your damage so far.

Also, higher quality weapons have damage, accuracy and penetration bonuses, so, eh.

I still never got to wrap my around these systems as comfortably as I had done with the Infinity Engine games, but I've given up on that account for a long time.

[Morty]

The ranger's animal companion can do pretty well tying things up in melee too, assuming you take the abilities that boost it (the damage reduction one in particular).

For starting out, Eder does pretty well with plate armour, the heaviest shield you can find and a hatchet for maximum defence. The sword and shield talent is a must, giving you a massive deflection and reflex boost. However, going full defence can leave his attacks a bit weak and the AI is (depending on difficulty) aware of that and will happily break engagement to wail on your squishier party members, so make sure not to neglect his offence. This changes once you hit level 7 and pick up Overbearing Guard, which lets him knock prone anyone who tries to break engagement (and the more enemies he can engage, the more of them he can keep from going after anyone else, so things like Hold The Line and Guardian Stance are really helpful)). If I remember correctly you can pick up a belt that boosts pierce and slash DR fairly early one, which really helps Eder out for a lot of the game.

Try not to rely on Durance to heal. Priests aren't particularly good at single target heals (that would be Paladins with their Lay on Hands - you'll run into one soon in Ondra's Gift). What Priests really want to be doing is focusing on buffs. Armour of Faith in particular is great for early game survivability, whilst Blessing will boost offence. (Late game your most used 1st level spell will actually be the anti-fear prayer, because an annoying number of enemeis later on have nasty fear auras.)

Piling up this much defences on Eder is probably overkill. I found it better to give him a two-handed weapon or two weapons and let him kill things, because his health and regeneration will keep him standing. As long as he's not the only one drawing enemy fire.

[Driderman]

The biggest contribution my main character has to combat so far is a weak accuracy buff aura which is basically a lesser version of the Paladin version. I'm tempted to make him ranged instead, and see how that works, but then he won't be able to use literally any of his class abilities. Right now, he's dual-wielding because his primary abilities seem to give him an attack with each, which is pretty darn powerful.

Why not do both?
Just finished a PoE1 playthrough with a Rogue and having a ranged weapon for the beginning of combat, then switching to melee flanking once enemies are engaged or when they break through your frontline generally worked really well for me. You obviously don't want to be point man with a Rogue but if you enter the fray after your tanks have gotten the enemies' attention you can do some mean sneak attacks

[Tome]

If you do go for a melee rogue, might I recommend taking a side trek to Dyrford Village and purchasing the Tall Grass pike? It's a pike, so you can stab things without being in range of them or whilst standing behind Eder, and comes with the unique effects of even more hit to crit conversion as well as knocking enemies prone on crits. Unfortunately most of the one handed weapons with speed boosts or interesting crit effects are found much later in the game.

The village is found to the east of Stormwall Gorge, itself to the east of the Woodend Plains. It also has a new party member to recruit there who'll be pretty helpful for Rogues.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I mean that the endings to a number of quests aren't particularly cut-and-dry. You could make a solid argument that the nonviolent endings to a couple of them aren't totally ideal (and sometimes you just inadvertently screw things up).

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/68715122/that-isnt-very-reassuring.jpg


Adding to this, remember that this is the Deadfire Archipelago. Its a largely lawless territory where might makes right. There are four major factions who all want you to help push their agenda, and none of them are a de-facto "good guy" faction. While some are worse than others, none of them are "this faction clearly has the best goals in mind."
I'm aware of this, though I feel that it's most ethical to side with the Huana: they're the Deadfire's natives, and the other factions are looking to take their lands and exploit them and their resources. That's all I'll say, as going into further detail starts delving into history and politics.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

PoE2 feels a lot to me like "Pillars of Eternity: Pirates of the Caribbean". Which is why I'm definitely going to play it, once I get through PoE.

[Psyren]

My question is if they ever got around to balancing/fixing the combat system. The combat in PoE and Tyranny was awful. Some stats were completely useless and some were mandatory. A basic weapon with armor piercing was better than a legendary weapon without it. Basically nothing even resembling balance.

Divinity probably has the best CRPG combat system I've played. It's a very simple and intuitive "strip their armor to make your CC work" setup, and some monsters (or the GM) can then layer in things like regeneration and saving throws and resistances and whatnot on top of that to add complexity if desired.

You do have to spend a feat to enable AoOs and spell criticals though, which I think is a bit lame, but other than that it feels fun. After I beat it and turn to PoE I'll be able to compare them.

[Driderman]

If you do go for a melee rogue, might I recommend taking a side trek to Dyrford Village and purchasing the Tall Grass pike? It's a pike, so you can stab things without being in range of them or whilst standing behind Eder, and comes with the unique effects of even more hit to crit conversion as well as knocking enemies prone on crits. Unfortunately most of the one handed weapons with speed boosts or interesting crit effects are found much later in the game.


But does it flank? (not that that's really necessary with the Sneak Attack system)

[Tome]

But does it flank? (not that that's really necessary with the Sneak Attack system)

Yep. Reach weapons flank as normal, just from further way.

[Driderman]

Yep. Reach weapons flank as normal, just from further way.

Hmm, I didn't actually know that. Maybe I should go for that for my Paladin/Rogue character. Although it seems that PoE2 still somewhat suffers from the 'all the cool magic items are swords' curse that has afflicted CRPGs since forever.

[Morty]

Hmm, I didn't actually know that. Maybe I should go for that for my Paladin/Rogue character. Although it seems that PoE2 still somewhat suffers from the 'all the cool magic items are swords' curse that has afflicted CRPGs since forever.

It really, really does. I've found like five unique swords just as loot or quest rewards, but no pikes. They may have been in some merchant's inventory and I missed them, but still.

[Tome]

Someone did a thorough analysis. There's around two uniques for most weapon types and then like twenty sabres or something.

Because they're the piratey weapon, I guess.

[Driderman]

I "settled" for using Whispers of the Endless Paths instead. Hot damn! :smallbiggrin:

[Morty]

As much as I hate crafting in most games, at least it does avoid this kind of nonsense by letting us make our own gear. Well, sometimes. Unless it's too much of a pain to actually craft anything. At least Deadfire doesn't have DOS2's insane gear treadmill, so using what you happen to find or simple Fine/Exceptional stuff is enough.

But really, if they wanted to emphasize unique weapons, they should have bothered to at least somewhat balance them out among different types.

[Psyren]

As much as I hate crafting in most games, at least it does avoid this kind of nonsense by letting us make our own gear. Well, sometimes. Unless it's too much of a pain to actually craft anything. At least Deadfire doesn't have DOS2's insane gear treadmill, so using what you happen to find or simple Fine/Exceptional stuff is enough.

But really, if they wanted to emphasize unique weapons, they should have bothered to at least somewhat balance them out among different types.

I have to wonder if you accidentally cranked the difficulty up to maximum on your DOS2 playthrough or something. I'm in Arx (Chapter 4) and overgearing everything I face by a significant margin. My only area of worry is my thief, who has low-ish magic armor and so ends up susceptible to elemental attacks and curses if they get focused, but since they're an archer positioning around all that is easy.

Speaking of archers, getting back to Pillars - my understanding is that you get no rogue party member in PoE1, is that accurate? I was planning to make my Watcher a ranger-y high-skilled type that I could bring with me into PoE2.

[Tome]

Speaking of archers, getting back to Pillars - my understanding is that you get no rogue party member in PoE1, is that accurate? I was planning to make my Watcher a ranger-y high-skilled type that I could bring with me into PoE2.

Only without the DLC. WM1 adds a monk and a rogue and WM2 adds the final missing class with a barbarian companion.

So if you have the DLCs you'll have a companion with the same class no matter what. Fortunately there's no real downside to doubling up on most classes, you can always use more dps/tanky front liners/priest buffs.

[Psyren]

Only without the DLC. WM1 adds a monk and a rogue and WM2 adds the final missing class with a barbarian companion.

So if you have the DLCs you'll have a companion with the same class no matter what. Fortunately there's no real downside to doubling up on most classes, you can always use more dps/tanky front liners/priest buffs.

Thanks for the tip! Ooh, and monks you say...

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Thanks for the tip! Ooh, and monks you say...

From what I've been given to understand, most Monk abilities don't really scale all that well

[Tome]

From what I've been given to understand, most Monk abilities don't really scale all that well

They do, actually! Or, more specifically, they scale off your weapon damage, which is probably pretty high thanks to your fists scaling really well. Full attack with bonus damage, increased attack speed, cleansing debuffs, summoning two clones etc are all great.

[Driderman]

Quick question: Is the game worth it? I've been looking for something like Divinity: Original Sin 1&2 but never found anything like that. Pillars are looking somewhat similar, but I am still not sure

I adore them both, even though they have their flaws. I'm not even a big fan of old-school stat-crunching games, which they certainly allow, but just set the difficulty to easy and you should be good to go.
Weird thing about Pillars 1 is that without the expansions it's sort of lacking a mid-game. Seems like the narrative is supposed to go something like(very slightly spoilerish if you don't like knowing area names) Gilded Vale> Caed Nua> Defiance Bay> Stronghold/White March Expansions> Twin Elms > End Game but without the White March expansions the only thing you really have to do after Defiance Bay is Caed Nua, which is "just" a 15-level dungeon crawl with a bit of stronghold management on the side.

I get the impression that Pillars 2 may also lack a bit of strong narrative design, I suppose both games suffer from the fact that they are designed to be very open-ended. Pillars 2 also has a lot of (minor) bugs that needs to be worked out but so long as you don't respec it's perfectly playable. I recommend getting the mod that gives you an in-game cheat UI, to fix stuff that is broken or just annoying.

[houlio]

Quick question: Is the game worth it? I've been looking for something like Divinity: Original Sin 1&2 but never found anything like that. Pillars are looking somewhat similar, but I am still not sure

The first game is kinda flat. The first act was a real slog for me to get through. The second act was fun and I felt it had a pretty good flow, along with some decent branching storytelling. The third act then feels a lot like cleanup duty through to the end.

White March is a lot of fun and has a much tighter story.

Deadfire for me is a lot more fun so far than the first game. The quests are individually a lot more interesting. While there’s still a lot of go to place to kill dudes, you get a lot of different resolution options.

I’d almost say 1 is skippable, but 2 really wants you to have played through 1 first.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

What's the best way to play a Cipher in melee? I know they need lighter armor, but are robes or padded armor better?

[Tome]

What's the best way to play a Cipher in melee? I know they need lighter armor, but are robes or padded armor better?
1 or 2? If 2, single class or mutliclass and what subclass?

In 1 you can go with lighter armour and use a pike or staff to attack from behind Eder. Just CC anything that looks at you funny. Mental Binding, Borrowed Instinct/Tactical Meld, Amplified Wave, Ringleader, Time Parasite etc are all really strong powers.

In 2, melee ciphers probably want medium armour and the doggy that reduces your penalty from armour. Grab your preferred dual wielded weapons for offence - I'm favouring maces right now. Still figuring out which powers work best.

Light armour is working fairly well for my inquisitor, but she has her paladin side to give her huge bonuses to her defences and heal what does get through.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Um...both, honestly? I'm looking to do a MASTER PLAYTHROUGH of both games. I'm not sure if I want to multiclass in the second game or not, though. Doesn't that prevent me from learning the final abilities of the class? Or do the classes not have capstones like that?

[Morty]

A multi-class character can't learn the level 8 and 9 abilities of either class.

Deadfire is more forgiving of light armor because you can heal the damage, while in Pillars 1 the lost health will add up even if you regain endurance. And ciphers don't have a lot of it.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

So do I go with heavier armor and eat the penalties in the first game to protect myself? I was looking to master two-handers because of:

Abydon's Hammer in the first game and Whispers of the Endless Paths in the second.

[lord_khaine]

How valuable are the level 8 and 9 monk abilities?
Was considering a wizard multiclass.

And how big are the reward from having played though 1?

[Tome]

So do I go with heavier armor and eat the penalties in the first game to protect myself? I was looking to master two-handers because of:

Abydon's Hammer in the first game and Whispers of the Endless Paths in the second.

At first, sure, wearing heavier armour will really help. At higher levels it becomes basically irrelevant though, due to the way damage and DR scale, and your primary defence should instead be a high deflection and the ability to CC everything. That's the point where you switch to lighter armour.

Two handers are great. In particular, look out for Tidefall and Tall Grass as good weapons to use before you get that particular weapon.


How valuable are the level 8 and 9 monk abilities?
Was considering a wizard multiclass.

And how big are the reward from having played though 1?

If you want to multiclass to wizard, do it. They have some great self-buffs and multiclass really well due to the way grimoires work (you don't need to invest in many wizard abilities when you can just use grimoires for all your spells). On the other hand pure monk is also pretty great, so don't feel like multiclassing is required.

You lose almost nothing by not importing a save, as the utility for building a background is very in depth. There's no questlines or content you'll be locked out of like in mass effect or anything.

[Aotrs Commander]

You lose almost nothing by not importing a save, as the utility for building a background is very in depth.

I'll say.

If anything, if you have only played the once, and close to when it came out, you probably won't remember what half the stuff it asks about is...! I'd have to fricking google stuff to remember what chunks of it were...

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Thanks for the advice, Tome! What does CC mean? Crowd control?

[houlio]

How valuable are the level 8 and 9 monk abilities?
Was considering a wizard multiclass.

And how big are the reward from having played though 1?

Just to add, I’ve been playing through Deadfire as a monk/wizard. It feels fine mechanically. When I can’t punch my enemies into submission, I can fry them with magic. I prioritized might and dex with con taking a secondary focus, which works pretty well for your blasty wizard spells. Your buff don’t last quite as long, but you also kill things really quickly.

[Tome]

Thanks for the advice, Tome! What does CC mean? Crowd control?

Yep. Ciphers do it really, really well.

Level 1 Antipathic Field: Good damage power, even into the endgame.
Eyestrike: A debuff instead of crowd control, but it does target Fortitude instead of Will like most of your powers.
Mind Wave: It's a Fortitude based CC, but it can be extremely tricky to aim and has an exceptionally short duration.
Soul Shock: Small AoE damage. Not great, but it's still spammable AoE damage.
Tenuous Grasp: Mind control is the best CC. However it suffers from far too short a duration.
Whisper of Treason: Gives better control than Tenous Grasp and for a longer duration. The single best first level power.

Level 2 Mental Binding: Take this. Let me repeat; TAKE THIS POWER. Single target paralysis with an AoE immobilise tacked on. Paralysis is deadly in this game, as it both prevents you doing anything and drops your defence to zero. And critting in this game is based off beating defence by a large enough degree. This is so good, and so easily spammed, that even at max level you will still be using this a lot.
Amplified Thrust: Does a good chunk of single target damage, but it will eventually be outpaced and, well, casting Mental Binding and attacking a few times is probably a better way to kill a single target.
Mind Blades: Fairly middling multi-target damage.
Phantom Foes: Auto-flanks targets in an AoE. Not terrible, but you can just have one of your melees actually flank a target fairly easily in most cases.
Psychovampiric Shield: Debuffs an enemy to give you bonus defence. Melee Ciphers live and die by this power. The debuff is pretty worthless, but the bonus defence is amazing.
Recall Agony: Increases the damage the enemy takes for a time. Not bad but, well... Mental Binding does it better. Can still be useful for beefy targets that are immune to Paralysis, Prone, Stun and mind control.

Level 3 Ectopsychic Echo: Ooh, finally another decent damage power. You'll need a bit of positioning to make use of it, but it racks up damage very quickly on anything hit.
Fractured Volition: AoE Debuff. unfortuantely it's not a very good debuff. It does really well at enabling Rogues' sneak attacks though.
Pain Link: A portion of the damage dealt to a party member is applied to enemies around them. Good on your tank, in theory, but if your tank is taking that much damage you're likely better served by debuffs or CC to keep them alive.
Puppet Master: The bigger, badder sibling to the first level mind control abilities. Still single target but now the target fights for you at 100% effectiveness. May or may not be worth it, as there are better versions coming soon.
Secret Horrors: Very similar to Fractured Volition, but applies a slightly better debuff. Unfortunately it's also one that enemies are frequently immune to.
Soul Ignition: Big single target damage resisted by Fortitude. There's a much better verion later on however, and even that is rarely used except when you're trying to dump excess focus to keep your soul whip active.

Level 4 Body Attunement: Both weakens an enemy's damage reduction and boosts your own. Similar to Psychovampiric Shield, except the debuff is really useful too. As a melee cipher, you probably want this.
Going Between: A 25% chance of downgrading aa crit/hit/graze an ally takes by one step. It's... okay, but Pain Block is usually better unless you're stacking similar effects.
Mind Lance: Okayish damage in a line. Kind of forgetable, and as a Cipher AoE damage isn't really your job. Leave that sort of thing to the wizards, barbarians and druids.
Pain Block: An excellent armour buff for an ally and it heals them as well. Quite useful for keeping your tank alive in difficult fights.
Silent Scream: Very similar to Mental Binding, except it does Raw damage instead of immobilising and Stun instead of Paralysis. Useful for all the same reasons as Mental Binding, but you mostly use it when soemthing is immune to Paralysis and not Stun - or you just want the nifty damage tacked on.
Wild Leech: Randomly steals 10 points of an attribute and gives them to you. If you could control which attribute it'd be decent, but as is it's too likely to steal something useless like Resolve. Used to be useful for leeching from party members when you needed to pass a difficult attribute check, but then they made it Combat Only.

Level 5 Borrowed Intinct: Another in the series of "debuff target to buff yourself" powers. The debuff is basically useless again, but the buff is really good. The main thing it gives is accuracy (more accuracy = more crits and easier time landing CC powers) but it also boosts your defences. It exists in competition with Tactical Meld.
Detonate: A better version of Soul Ignition. Still only used it when trying to burn excess focus, as CC + attacks is better damage.
Ringleader: You know what's better than mind controlling an enemy? Mind Controlling a whole bunch of them. Can swing difficult fights in yoru favour with a single cast. Unfortunately you can't attack mind controlled targets without breaking the mind control.
Tactical Meld: Gives the same incredibly useful accuracy boost as Borrowed Instinct, only without having to beat the enemy's Will defence beforehand. Doesn't boost defence, but the tradeoff can be worth it if you're trying to use the accuracy boost to land Will-targeting powers (most of your good stuff) against a target with a good will defence.

Level 6 Amplified Wave: Taaaaaaaake this. With roughly the same priority as Mental Binding, TAKE THIS. It hits a massive area for good damage and knocks everything prone for a fairly lengthy duration. Prone is a hard CC like paralysis and stun. This power is amazing. You can chain them back to back to keep entire encounters locked down.
Disintegration: An upgrade on Soul Ignition and Detonate. Still not that effective but you may take it anyway as there's only three powers at this level anyway.
Mind Plague: Hey, you know how mass mind control can be really good? What if it jumped from target to target instead of being a circular AoE? And confused (which lets you still target them) instead of charming or dominating them? Yeah, this is pretty good... but it's the same cost as Amplified Wave, and Amplified Wave is better unless the enemies are all immune to it. But only three powers at this level, so you take it anyway.

Level 7 Stasis Shell: It's a single target hard CC that targets Will. Some of your best powers do that. Unfortunately, it also makes the enemy invulnerable whilst they're affected. Still, there's only two powers at this level so you may as well take it anyway.
Time Parasite: The ultimate incarnation of the vampiric self buffs. This one gives an absolutely massive boost to your attack speed. Attack speed boosts get better the more or them you have. As soon as you get this power, take off your armour and equip some gauntlets of swift action. It's amazing.

Level 8 Defensive Mindweb: Allows the entire party to use the best defence among them. This is incredibly strong, but is held back by it's small area that requires your party to stay grouped tightly together. Still, great when you need it.
Reaping Knives: Equips an ally with some energy blades that are as deadly as they are cool looking, and gives you a big chunk of focus every time they deal damage with them. For best effect use them on an ally specced for dual wielding.

In summary, the must-have powers are: Mental Binding (level 2), Amplified Wave (level 6), Time Parasite (level 7) and either Borrowed Instinct or Tactical Meld (level 5).

I'm still experimenting with the powers in Deadfire to figure out the best options there. Hopefully I'll eventually be able to write a similar list for that.

Also, I remember you wanted to do an 'everything right' style playthrough? You don't actually need Resolve, as I just pulled one off with Resolve as my dump stat. Having high Per/Int/Mig/Dex and Lore usually gave me an alternative option to get things done how I wanted them, and in PoE1 you can redo your attribute allocation by respeccing at any merchant.

The hard part is getting the best ending at the end of the second DLC. Easiest way is to actually head off to do the DLC before you finish Act 2.

At the end of the DLC you must convince someone of something to earn the best ending. You do this by proving three points, each of which you need to be able to provide two pieces of valid evidence for and present them in the right way.

The first point has no options with any real prerequisite. Bringing the Rogue or Paladin companions may be useful, but you can do it without them.

The second point you have to make requires you to have resolved either the barbarian or monk companions' quests in a particular way. Which is to say, either the barbarian must have chosen to forget or the monk must have moved on from his past. You also have to have the respective companion in your party for the final confrontation.

The third and final point is the really tricky part. There are three arguments you can present and each of them is easily invalidated by previous actions. To succeed you need to be able to do at least two of these.
Your Wizard companion is involved in one argument you can make. It will fail if you have encouraged him in a positive direction. Chances are, you won't be getting this one.
The second argument is easy enough unless you acted a certain way at the end of Act 2 of the main story. Chances are good that you will want to act that way. Therefore, do this before you finish Act 2 so you can both have your cake and eat it.
The third argument can be invalidated by certain responses when doing quests for the Knights of the Crucible in Act 2 or by not releasing the souls at the end of part 1 of the DLC. Releasing the souls is the nice option basically, and if you do this quest before Act 2 then you may well not have doen the Knights of the Crucible quests yet.


The third point is the really tricky one.

[Tome]

Okay, so I've done a bit of reading and testing to confirm how PL and Empower work. This post (https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/99409-mechanics-power-level-compilation-thread/) appears to be spot on.

For every Power Level you have above a non-weapon based ability's minimum, it gains the following: Accuracy +1/PL
Damage +5%/PL
Penetration +0.25/PL (rounds up to the nearest .1)
Duration +5%/PL
Projectile Count/Jumps +????/PL
If the ability has multiple projectiles or jumps from target to target, Power Level may or may not increase the number of projectiles/jumps at a rate determined by the power. Not all abilities will indicate this.

To use an example from my testing with Cipher powers, Mind Blade and Mind Plague get extra jumps at a rate of +0.5/PL. They will also happily bounce back and forth between the same targets so long as there's at least two left.

You also get a bonus to accuracy equal to the minimum PL required for the ability. This isn't properly shown in tooltips.

Weapon-based abilities get the duration scaling and apparently some unknown bonus to damage (but probably the same +5%/PL bonus).

Empower gives an ability a +10 PL bonus to non-weapon abilities. In other words: +10 Accuracy, +50% Damage, +2.5 Penetration, +50% Duration and some number of additional projectiles/bounces if applicable. The extra projectiles/jumps make abilities that have this scaling ideal targets for Empower. Empowered weapon-based abilities appear to get +20 Accuracy, Damage +50% and +5 Penetration.

What this really means for most players is: Spells with multiple projectiles or which jump between targets are really good to Empower.
The -2 Power Level from being multiclass isn't going to have too much effect on your abilities scaling, and even less if they're weapon based.
Ascendant Ciphers could just treat the subclass as a boost to focus generation and ignore the whole Ascendance mechanic if they want.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Yep. Ciphers do it really, really well.

Level 1 Antipathic Field: Good damage power, even into the endgame.
Eyestrike: A debuff instead of crowd control, but it does target Fortitude instead of Will like most of your powers.
Mind Wave: It's a Fortitude based CC, but it can be extremely tricky to aim and has an exceptionally short duration.
Soul Shock: Small AoE damage. Not great, but it's still spammable AoE damage.
Tenuous Grasp: Mind control is the best CC. However it suffers from far too short a duration.
Whisper of Treason: Gives better control than Tenous Grasp and for a longer duration. The single best first level power.

Level 2 Mental Binding: Take this. Let me repeat; TAKE THIS POWER. Single target paralysis with an AoE immobilise tacked on. Paralysis is deadly in this game, as it both prevents you doing anything and drops your defence to zero. And critting in this game is based off beating defence by a large enough degree. This is so good, and so easily spammed, that even at max level you will still be using this a lot.
Amplified Thrust: Does a good chunk of single target damage, but it will eventually be outpaced and, well, casting Mental Binding and attacking a few times is probably a better way to kill a single target.
Mind Blades: Fairly middling multi-target damage.
Phantom Foes: Auto-flanks targets in an AoE. Not terrible, but you can just have one of your melees actually flank a target fairly easily in most cases.
Psychovampiric Shield: Debuffs an enemy to give you bonus defence. Melee Ciphers live and die by this power. The debuff is pretty worthless, but the bonus defence is amazing.
Recall Agony: Increases the damage the enemy takes for a time. Not bad but, well... Mental Binding does it better. Can still be useful for beefy targets that are immune to Paralysis, Prone, Stun and mind control.

Level 3 Ectopsychic Echo: Ooh, finally another decent damage power. You'll need a bit of positioning to make use of it, but it racks up damage very quickly on anything hit.
Fractured Volition: AoE Debuff. unfortuantely it's not a very good debuff. It does really well at enabling Rogues' sneak attacks though.
Pain Link: A portion of the damage dealt to a party member is applied to enemies around them. Good on your tank, in theory, but if your tank is taking that much damage you're likely better served by debuffs or CC to keep them alive.
Puppet Master: The bigger, badder sibling to the first level mind control abilities. Still single target but now the target fights for you at 100% effectiveness. May or may not be worth it, as there are better versions coming soon.
Secret Horrors: Very similar to Fractured Volition, but applies a slightly better debuff. Unfortunately it's also one that enemies are frequently immune to.
Soul Ignition: Big single target damage resisted by Fortitude. There's a much better verion later on however, and even that is rarely used except when you're trying to dump excess focus to keep your soul whip active.

Level 4 Body Attunement: Both weakens an enemy's damage reduction and boosts your own. Similar to Psychovampiric Shield, except the debuff is really useful too. As a melee cipher, you probably want this.
Going Between: A 25% chance of downgrading aa crit/hit/graze an ally takes by one step. It's... okay, but Pain Block is usually better unless you're stacking similar effects.
Mind Lance: Okayish damage in a line. Kind of forgetable, and as a Cipher AoE damage isn't really your job. Leave that sort of thing to the wizards, barbarians and druids.
Pain Block: An excellent armour buff for an ally and it heals them as well. Quite useful for keeping your tank alive in difficult fights.
Silent Scream: Very similar to Mental Binding, except it does Raw damage instead of immobilising and Stun instead of Paralysis. Useful for all the same reasons as Mental Binding, but you mostly use it when soemthing is immune to Paralysis and not Stun - or you just want the nifty damage tacked on.
Wild Leech: Randomly steals 10 points of an attribute and gives them to you. If you could control which attribute it'd be decent, but as is it's too likely to steal something useless like Resolve. Used to be useful for leeching from party members when you needed to pass a difficult attribute check, but then they made it Combat Only.

Level 5 Borrowed Intinct: Another in the series of "debuff target to buff yourself" powers. The debuff is basically useless again, but the buff is really good. The main thing it gives is accuracy (more accuracy = more crits and easier time landing CC powers) but it also boosts your defences. It exists in competition with Tactical Meld.
Detonate: A better version of Soul Ignition. Still only used it when trying to burn excess focus, as CC + attacks is better damage.
Ringleader: You know what's better than mind controlling an enemy? Mind Controlling a whole bunch of them. Can swing difficult fights in yoru favour with a single cast. Unfortunately you can't attack mind controlled targets without breaking the mind control.
Tactical Meld: Gives the same incredibly useful accuracy boost as Borrowed Instinct, only without having to beat the enemy's Will defence beforehand. Doesn't boost defence, but the tradeoff can be worth it if you're trying to use the accuracy boost to land Will-targeting powers (most of your good stuff) against a target with a good will defence.

Level 6 Amplified Wave: Taaaaaaaake this. With roughly the same priority as Mental Binding, TAKE THIS. It hits a massive area for good damage and knocks everything prone for a fairly lengthy duration. Prone is a hard CC like paralysis and stun. This power is amazing. You can chain them back to back to keep entire encounters locked down.
Disintegration: An upgrade on Soul Ignition and Detonate. Still not that effective but you may take it anyway as there's only three powers at this level anyway.
Mind Plague: Hey, you know how mass mind control can be really good? What if it jumped from target to target instead of being a circular AoE? And confused (which lets you still target them) instead of charming or dominating them? Yeah, this is pretty good... but it's the same cost as Amplified Wave, and Amplified Wave is better unless the enemies are all immune to it. But only three powers at this level, so you take it anyway.

Level 7 Stasis Shell: It's a single target hard CC that targets Will. Some of your best powers do that. Unfortunately, it also makes the enemy invulnerable whilst they're affected. Still, there's only two powers at this level so you may as well take it anyway.
Time Parasite: The ultimate incarnation of the vampiric self buffs. This one gives an absolutely massive boost to your attack speed. Attack speed boosts get better the more or them you have. As soon as you get this power, take off your armour and equip some gauntlets of swift action. It's amazing.

Level 8 Defensive Mindweb: Allows the entire party to use the best defence among them. This is incredibly strong, but is held back by it's small area that requires your party to stay grouped tightly together. Still, great when you need it.
Reaping Knives: Equips an ally with some energy blades that are as deadly as they are cool looking, and gives you a big chunk of focus every time they deal damage with them. For best effect use them on an ally specced for dual wielding.

In summary, the must-have powers are: Mental Binding (level 2), Amplified Wave (level 6), Time Parasite (level 7) and either Borrowed Instinct or Tactical Meld (level 5).

I'm still experimenting with the powers in Deadfire to figure out the best options there. Hopefully I'll eventually be able to write a similar list for that.

Also, I remember you wanted to do an 'everything right' style playthrough? You don't actually need Resolve, as I just pulled one off with Resolve as my dump stat. Having high Per/Int/Mig/Dex and Lore usually gave me an alternative option to get things done how I wanted them, and in PoE1 you can redo your attribute allocation by respeccing at any merchant.

The hard part is getting the best ending at the end of the second DLC. Easiest way is to actually head off to do the DLC before you finish Act 2.

At the end of the DLC you must convince someone of something to earn the best ending. You do this by proving three points, each of which you need to be able to provide two pieces of valid evidence for and present them in the right way.

The first point has no options with any real prerequisite. Bringing the Rogue or Paladin companions may be useful, but you can do it without them.

The second point you have to make requires you to have resolved either the barbarian or monk companions' quests in a particular way. Which is to say, either the barbarian must have chosen to forget or the monk must have moved on from his past. You also have to have the respective companion in your party for the final confrontation.

The third and final point is the really tricky part. There are three arguments you can present and each of them is easily invalidated by previous actions. To succeed you need to be able to do at least two of these.
Your Wizard companion is involved in one argument you can make. It will fail if you have encouraged him in a positive direction. Chances are, you won't be getting this one.
The second argument is easy enough unless you acted a certain way at the end of Act 2 of the main story. Chances are good that you will want to act that way. Therefore, do this before you finish Act 2 so you can both have your cake and eat it.
The third argument can be invalidated by certain responses when doing quests for the Knights of the Crucible in Act 2 or by not releasing the souls at the end of part 1 of the DLC. Releasing the souls is the nice option basically, and if you do this quest before Act 2 then you may well not have doen the Knights of the Crucible quests yet.


The third point is the really tricky one.
This is incredibly helpful! That part was one of the things I was most worried about! I had no idea you could go do that stuff before the end of the 2nd act!

Out of curiosity, what's the best light armor a two-handed weapon cipher should wear? Robes like Gwisk Glas? Padded armor like Vengiatta Rugia?

[Keltest]

This is incredibly helpful! That part was one of the things I was most worried about! I had no idea you could go do that stuff before the end of the 2nd act!

Out of curiosity, what's the best light armor a two-handed weapon cipher should wear? Robes like Gwisk Glas? Padded armor like Vengiatta Rugia?

With armor, I find its often a question of what you can get away with. Ciphers are nice in that they can basically sustain combat forever as long as nothing kills them, so more and faster actions are always desirable for them.
If youre going melee, I would personally err on the side of the "heavier" armor until its demonstrated that you can survive in the robes or whatever.

[Tome]

This is incredibly helpful! That part was one of the things I was most worried about! I had no idea you could go do that stuff before the end of the 2nd act!

Out of curiosity, what's the best light armor a two-handed weapon cipher should wear? Robes like Gwisk Glas? Padded armor like Vengiatta Rugia?

Yep. The White March opens up pretty much as soon as you get your stronghold. It will be a bit tough when you first go in (hint: abuse mental binding and remember that priests get spells to immunise your party to given status effects), but by the time you leave you'll be max level. You may also want to clean out as many act 2 sidequests as posdible and most of the endless paths before you do it, just to power up a bit more.

Honestly, I ended up just grabbing the clothing I liked most and enchanting it - looks good and has no speed penalty. The unique robes and padded armour available before act 3 are actually little different from enchanting your own, but can save you some materials (why are rubies so scarce?).

Vengiatta Rubia is nice, but you literally have to kill the strongest enemy in the game to get it. I guess Angio's Gambeson is both useful and can be acquired before it becomes pointless, or you could always borrow and upgrade Aloth's unique armour.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

With armor, I find its often a question of what you can get away with. Ciphers are nice in that they can basically sustain combat forever as long as nothing kills them, so more and faster actions are always desirable for them.
If youre going melee, I would personally err on the side of the "heavier" armor until its demonstrated that you can survive in the robes or whatever.
How much heavier are we talking? Leather? Scale? Or is that TOO heavy?

[Driderman]

How much heavier are we talking? Leather? Scale? Or is that TOO heavy?

Well, how much recovery time du you want on your abilities? For me, 35% for a class as dependent on it's abilities as the Cipher seems like a lot.

[Morty]

1 or 2? If 2, single class or mutliclass and what subclass?

In 1 you can go with lighter armour and use a pike or staff to attack from behind Eder. Just CC anything that looks at you funny. Mental Binding, Borrowed Instinct/Tactical Meld, Amplified Wave, Ringleader, Time Parasite etc are all really strong powers.

In 2, melee ciphers probably want medium armour and the doggy that reduces your penalty from armour. Grab your preferred dual wielded weapons for offence - I'm favouring maces right now. Still figuring out which powers work best.

Light armour is working fairly well for my inquisitor, but she has her paladin side to give her huge bonuses to her defences and heal what does get through.

Where might I find this dog? Between that and Armored Grace I might eliminate the penalty for chainmail almost entirely.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I believe the dog's name is Nalvi, and they can be found at the east side of Junvik Village.

According to the wiki, Cutthroat Cosmo, the space pig with a hat from the Scavenger Hunt promotion provides a similar reduction to armor penalty.

[Tome]

Where might I find this dog? Between that and Armored Grace I might eliminate the penalty for chainmail almost entirely.

His name is Abraham and he's found on the balcony of the luminous adra mill in Neketaka.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Well, how much recovery time du you want on your abilities? For me, 35% for a class as dependent on it's abilities as the Cipher seems like a lot.
Well, the lower the better, but from what I'm being told here that's something I'll have to work towards as I build my Cipher, and when I'm starting out I'll need more solid protection until I reach that point.

[Tome]

Well, the lower the better, but from what I'm being told here that's something I'll have to work towards as I build my Cipher, and when I'm starting out I'll need more solid protection until I reach that point.

-10 damage means a lot when your enemies deal 11. When they start hitting for 55 it becomes less of a concern.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

-10 damage means a lot when your enemies deal 11. When they start hitting for 55 it becomes less of a concern.
I see! I think...

May I please ask you more questions via PM, to avoid cluttering this thread about Deadfire with stuff about its predecessor?

[Tome]

I see! I think...

May I please ask you more questions via PM, to avoid cluttering this thread about Deadfire with stuff about its predecessor?

Sure, feel free. :smallbiggrin:

[Morty]

The DR/Penetration model from Deadfire is intended to remove the situation where armor matters less later on, but I'm not sure how well it's working. It's not often that I actually fail to beat enemy armor. And the game's easy enough that I don't really worry about my party's armor. Maybe once they patch it to be actually challenging.

[houlio]

The DR/Penetration model from Deadfire is intended to remove the situation where armor matters less later on, but I'm not sure how well it's working. It's not often that I actually fail to beat enemy armor. And the game's easy enough that I don't really worry about my party's armor. Maybe once they patch it to be actually challenging.

Well, armor rating is no longer just flat damage reduction. I believe instead that if armor beats an attack's penetration, the attack just does some amount of less damage. If the penetration beats the armor, the attack deals normal damage, and if penetration is much higher (like double maybe), the attack deals extra damage.

This is different from the first game where early on a dude in plate armor might just be immune to half the attacks coming their way. Now you will always do some damage on a hit even if you don't beat their armor rating. On the other hand, I think the glance/hit/crit thing has also been changed too.

[Tome]

Well, armor rating is no longer just flat damage reduction. I believe instead that if armor beats an attack's penetration, the attack just does some amount of less damage. If the penetration beats the armor, the attack deals normal damage, and if penetration is much higher (like double maybe), the attack deals extra damage.

This is different from the first game where early on a dude in plate armor might just be immune to half the attacks coming their way. Now you will always do some damage on a hit even if you don't beat their armor rating. On the other hand, I think the glance/hit/crit thing has also been changed too.

Specifically, it's -25% damage for each point of pen under the target's armour you are, to a maximum of -75%. Overpen gives you a 30% damage bonus if your pen is double the armour. It makes armour stacking really good for defence, and keeping your pen up really important for offence (or it would be, if the difficulty weren't so low right now).

Glance/Hit/Crit is still the same, but Glances have been removed from a lot of abilities. They also nerfed stuff like Paralysis to no longer drop a target's defences into auto-crit territory.

[Morty]

I have to say, I'm not sure why the companions don't just get the same XP as the Watcher, in either game. It feels worse in Deadfire than in the first game, because there's no stronghold adventures to give some XP to the benched teammates. So when I pick up someone I haven't used in a while, they're two levels behind.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Huh, I didn't know that.

Weird question, but slightly relevant now that romances are a thing: the lore clearly states different races can't produce offspring (no half-elves, for example) together, but can different types of an individual race have kids, like, say a Wood Elf and Pale Elf, or a Wild Orlan and a Hearth Orlan falling in love?

[Keltest]

Huh, I didn't know that.

Weird question, but slightly relevant now that romances are a thing: the lore clearly states different races can't produce offspring (no half-elves, for example) together, but can different types of an individual race have kids, like, say a Wood Elf and Pale Elf, or a Wild Orlan and a Hearth Orlan falling in love?

Isnt Xoti's race listed as being mixed between two of the different human subspecies?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

According to the wiki, yes, but I thought that just might be a human thing, with other groups like the two types of orlans having too much genetic drift between them or something.

[Tome]

Hiravias implies that the Orlan subtypes interbreed/can show up as recessive traits and they have more visible differences than most species.

On a slightly related note, it comes up when romancing Xoti that relationships that cannot produce offspring (ie gay, mixed species, godlike etc) are taboo in readceras. Presumably it comes up if you're playing as anything other than a male human, I was playing an elven lady.

[Cespenar]

Did anyone encounter some actual consequences of being late to follow after Eothas in Deadfire? Because the 30 thousand sidequests around the place really don't mesh with the idea of the scenario -- you being hot on the heels of a hurrying god.

So far I haven't noticed any consequences, but I didn't neither abuse my time nor rushed my way through the game.

[Keltest]

Did anyone encounter some actual consequences of being late to follow after Eothas in Deadfire? Because the 30 thousand sidequests around the place really don't mesh with the idea of the scenario -- you being hot on the heels of a hurrying god.

So far I haven't noticed any consequences, but I didn't neither abuse my time nor rushed my way through the game.

None that ive seen. Given that its the main quest, I can understand why they didn't want to put a time barrier on it, since finishing it ends the game.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Maybe Eothas just gets lost real easy? :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

I haven't played through P2 myself yet (heck, I've just started P1, but don't worry about spoilers) - but usually in games like this I don't have a problem justifying why the main quest can wait while I get my sidequest on. In Inquisition for example, I headcanoned that I had an in-game month before the Empress' ball to prevent her assassination. In Mass Effect 2, that Reaper IFF was sitting there untouched for literally millions of years, so it could wait a few more weeks. In Divinity OS2, Lucian's Day involves a weeklong celebration, plenty of time for me to explore Arx fully. And so on.

[Aotrs Commander]

None that ive seen. Given that its the main quest, I can understand why they didn't want to put a time barrier on it, since finishing it ends the game.

Time pressure that do the main quest now is also one of the fastest ways to put people off as I can think of - people play at different speeds after all.



I couldn't cope with Mask of the Betrayer because it felt like I was having to run through it.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

That's one reason I didn't get into Fallout until Bethesda resuscitated it.

On the other hand, Deadfire does appear to have some hard limits on how much you can wander around the high seas, namely your supplies and your cash flow, since it looks like maintaining your ship crew will be a constant drain on your resources. What happens if you run out of food and water out sailing and you don't have enough money to both restock them and pay your crew at the same time, apart from the obvious mutiny?

[Morty]

Dragon Age: Inquisition and Mass Effect 2 are actually quite good about letting us fool around and do sidequests without breaking immersion. Deadfire... is about standard. You've got a big and important quest that concerns both you and the world at large, but you'll go explore, loot and get involved in local politics anyway.

[Driderman]

Did anyone encounter some actual consequences of being late to follow after Eothas in Deadfire? Because the 30 thousand sidequests around the place really don't mesh with the idea of the scenario -- you being hot on the heels of a hurrying god.

So far I haven't noticed any consequences, but I didn't neither abuse my time nor rushed my way through the game.

The only consequence I've noticed so far is the damage to my suspension of disbelief :smallconfused:

Why do experienced developers keep doing this!? There's nothing more annoying than a "you must urgently save the world/find the mcguffin/rescue your child/etc etc" quest and then the game proceeds to suggest you go do a thousand other things instead.

Pillars 1 did the same after Defiance Bay, where you have to follow Thaos to Twin Elms... But maybe you'll just spend 3 months traveling the Dyrwood and the White March first because apparently Thaos finally decided to spend all those accumulated vacation days on the way so no rush, really :smallamused:

[Keltest]

That's one reason I didn't get into Fallout until Bethesda resuscitated it.

On the other hand, Deadfire does appear to have some hard limits on how much you can wander around the high seas, namely your supplies and your cash flow, since it looks like maintaining your ship crew will be a constant drain on your resources. What happens if you run out of food and water out sailing and you don't have enough money to both restock them and pay your crew at the same time, apart from the obvious mutiny?

They die. Starvation sucks man.

[Tome]

That's one reason I didn't get into Fallout until Bethesda resuscitated it.

On the other hand, Deadfire does appear to have some hard limits on how much you can wander around the high seas, namely your supplies and your cash flow, since it looks like maintaining your ship crew will be a constant drain on your resources. What happens if you run out of food and water out sailing and you don't have enough money to both restock them and pay your crew at the same time, apart from the obvious mutiny?

I wouldn't worry about it. You'll have done everything in the game several times over before that becomes a concern.

[Psyren]

I'm trying to get into this game (the first one) but it feels like it's just keeping me at arm's length.

In Divinity, the stakes were personal and immediate right off the bat. I wake up on a prison ship, where apparently I'm being held with no trial. The guards are mostly jerks, but they begrudgingly let me move about freely because there's a murder of one of the guards that needs investigating, and I happen to be the only non-guard on board with an ironclad alibi. Any of these wacky characters (many of whom will no doubt end up being party members) could be the culprit. And if all that weren't enough - halfway to our destination, some weird lady wearing a t-shirt that says "I'LL BE A BOSS LATER" tries to sink the boat and kill us all. And every single story beat I mentioned gives you the opportunity to shape your character, even if you started with a totally blank slate. Are you the kind of guy that will genuinely help the authorities despite the injustice they inflicted on you? Or maybe you openly tell them to shove it? Maybe you pretend to investigate while you get your bearings so you can plan your escape later? Or maybe you actually do want to find this murderer, either just so you know who to avoid, so you can blackmail them, or so you can team up and stage a revolt? And when the terrorist action happens and you all need to band together, do you try to save your own skin, or do you risk your life to try and save your would-be comrades?

Meanwhile in Pillars, I'm with a caravan leaving from... somewhere, and heading to... somewhere else. The caravan ends up attacked and slaughtered while my back was turned, but I never got the chance to care about these people because I couldn't actually talk to most of them. I happen to trip over the plot after the tutorial section when I see some weird cult playing around with their wind machine, and I become a Godwoken Watcher seemingly by accident, but even then I have no idea what that means; I just get a quest from a ghost lady that is like "you're a Watcher now, if you're curious about that, go find this guy maybe?" Why should I care? Does the world need saving? Is being a Watcher my meal ticket? Is it killing me slowly? Are people going to hunt me down? I'm sure the game will answer some of these in time, and I do plan to keep playing, but the pacing just feels glacial early on.

I'm hoping Obsidian does a better job with the hook for Kingmaker.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I think the problem you're describing, Psyren, is that Pillars 1 kind of struggles to communicate that your problems (being a Watcher will slowly drive you mad as you start being unable to distinguish past lives from current ones, which Maerwald is supposed to serve as an example of) and the Dyrwood's problems (the Hollowborn crisis/Waidwen's Legacy) are linked (Your past life's connection to Thaos, the mastermind behind the the latter, is the reason for the former). In a sense, yes, the world (or at least this particular corner of it) does need saving and yes, being a Watcher carries a problem, but it doesn't really communicate how stopping what Thaos is doing will also stop your Watcher powers from driving you crazy.

By being vague and mysterious at the start, it doesn't communicate any sense of urgency. You don't learn about the Hollowborn crisis until you get to Gilded Vale, and you don't learn the downsides of Watcherhood until you reach Caed Nua.

Though, having read the Kingmaker Adventure Path that the game will be based on, I think you may have some cause for concern, as Kingmaker is one of the most open-ended APs Paizo has ever written. The explicit draw of the game is wilderness exploration and while you're given vague goals, like locating and defeating the Stag Lord or figuring out why Varnhold has vanished, the book doesn't present these as a chain of linked events but rather as checkpoints after you're done exploring the land and dealing with whatever side-quests you've stumbled upon along the way. In particular, you're really not supposed to know who the real villainous mastermind behind the major goings-on in the area is, or even that said goings-on were connected at all, until the final act of the story when she's done acting through manipulated dupes and just attacks you directly. On the other hand, this is just what I know from the books and I have no idea how much the devs will change from it in the translation to a PC game...

[Keltest]

I would add that in Divinity, youre explicitly The Chosen One (or at least A chosen one), and Things Happen to you specifically because of your Chosen One status, all the freaking time. In Pillars, youre basically a random shmuck who happens to have the right mix of stuff to survive Thaos and want to go after him. For much of the story, youre a bit part who only sees some of whats going on.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I don't mean to be a bother, but I can't send that message I promised, Tome. Your message box appears to be full. :smallredface:

[The Hellbug]

Another thing the game doesn't quite make super clear: the Hollowborn Crisis has been going on for 15 years. The Dyrwood has been denied a whole generation of...well, everything. You see that things are bad in Gilded Vale, but I don't think the game does a great job of showing just how screwed the Free Palatinate of the Dyrwood is.

Edit: Honestly, it's a bit weird that any bribery from Raedric could get people to settle there.

[Morty]

Right now I'm almost finished with the game so I'm just wandering around doing quests. But it doesn't look like I'll be able to hit level 19 before the endgame. So as usual the coolest abilities will come at a point when I'll hardly use them, if ever. At least my Watcher has a shot at that, since all of my companions are one or two levels behind me. I don't really know why they don't just follow my XP gain.

I am having a lot of fun with a swashbuckler, though. Pillars went a long way towards convincing me classes don't need to be hopelessly restrictive... I have more wriggle room than in some classless systems. A swashbuckler really feels like a nimble swordsman and a single one-handed sword is actually alright at dealing damage.

My next character, once the next patch is released, will be an Orlan crossbow-ranger. He was originally a rogue, but since I'm already playing a multiclass fighter/rogue... then again, high-level ranger abilities look rather unimpressive. The lower levels have some good and varied stuff, but as you go up in levels there's few abilities and they're... not that good.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'm trying to get into this game (the first one) but it feels like it's just keeping me at arm's length.

In Divinity, the stakes were personal and immediate right off the bat. I wake up on a prison ship, where apparently I'm being held with no trial. The guards are mostly jerks, but they begrudgingly let me move about freely because there's a murder of one of the guards that needs investigating, and I happen to be the only non-guard on board with an ironclad alibi. Any of these wacky characters (many of whom will no doubt end up being party members) could be the culprit. And if all that weren't enough - halfway to our destination, some weird lady wearing a t-shirt that says "I'LL BE A BOSS LATER" tries to sink the boat and kill us all. And every single story beat I mentioned gives you the opportunity to shape your character, even if you started with a totally blank slate. Are you the kind of guy that will genuinely help the authorities despite the injustice they inflicted on you? Or maybe you openly tell them to shove it? Maybe you pretend to investigate while you get your bearings so you can plan your escape later? Or maybe you actually do want to find this murderer, either just so you know who to avoid, so you can blackmail them, or so you can team up and stage a revolt? And when the terrorist action happens and you all need to band together, do you try to save your own skin, or do you risk your life to try and save your would-be comrades?

Meanwhile in Pillars, I'm with a caravan leaving from... somewhere, and heading to... somewhere else. The caravan ends up attacked and slaughtered while my back was turned, but I never got the chance to care about these people because I couldn't actually talk to most of them. I happen to trip over the plot after the tutorial section when I see some weird cult playing around with their wind machine, and I become a Godwoken Watcher seemingly by accident, but even then I have no idea what that means; I just get a quest from a ghost lady that is like "you're a Watcher now, if you're curious about that, go find this guy maybe?" Why should I care? Does the world need saving? Is being a Watcher my meal ticket? Is it killing me slowly? Are people going to hunt me down? I'm sure the game will answer some of these in time, and I do plan to keep playing, but the pacing just feels glacial early on.

I'm hoping Obsidian does a better job with the hook for Kingmaker.
I actually prefer the opening to Pillars to the one in Divinity.

In Divinity, you already know the plot. You knew it the moment you woke up and started talking to named NPC's, and the boss you ran into. There are no real surprises, no plot twists, there's no suspense, no sense of wonder. You are spoon-fed your plot, perhaps even force-fed might be appropriate.

In Pillars... things are less set in stone. You have more ability to write your backstory in how you came to that caravan. You can just be looking for a new beginning, you could be looking for your fortune, you could simply be a wanderer blowing where the wind takes you. Then the plot stuff happens. You are dumped into a scenario that your character's mental state is not equipped to handle. You end up involved in an unknown phenomena, then got a ring-side seat for a freaky ritual. You aren't told the plot, you are shown the plot as you progress to the first settled area capable of being called a 'town', and you start hearing about the Unborn, and the witch hunts going on around them. At the time you are introduced to them, the only thing you really want to do is avoid the whole damn thing. And then there's the dead spirit you talk to under the corpse tree, which is surreal even for the fantasy setting you are in. It's clear that most people wouldn't be capable of this sort of thing, and you don't know what it means for you or for anyone else.

She gives you the next place to go, and you start slowly unraveling the mystery, and how your uniqueness fits in. You meet the fellow in the basement of the next location, and you are given one possibility to what could happen to you, specifically, if you don't get a rein on it. It's a haunting scene, because you are looking at this guy, plagued by his past lives, and see that this could be you if you screw things up.

Oh, the castle also picks you to be its owner because the previous owner no longer needs it. So there's that too.

The thing is... it treats you like an intelligent adult, and lets you do your own digging and exploring, instead of shoving the painfully obvious plot down your gullet at every opportunity. It teases you, it gives you a mystery, it gives you a sense of wonder that is nearly absent in modern RPG's, much to their detriment.

The key here is that in Pillars... you don't know what is going on. You aren't some already supernaturally powerful individual. You are just some shmuck trying to survive that gets caught up in things way out of his comfort level, and trying to survive.

I happen to really like that. But, of course, YMMV.

[Rusty Spoon]

I actually prefer the opening to Pillars to the one in Divinity.

In Divinity, you already know the plot. You knew it the moment you woke up and started talking to named NPC's, and the boss you ran into. There are no real surprises, no plot twists, there's no suspense, no sense of wonder. You are spoon-fed your plot, perhaps even force-fed might be appropriate.

In Pillars... things are less set in stone. You have more ability to write your backstory in how you came to that caravan. You can just be looking for a new beginning, you could be looking for your fortune, you could simply be a wanderer blowing where the wind takes you. Then the plot stuff happens. You are dumped into a scenario that your character's mental state is not equipped to handle. You end up involved in an unknown phenomena, then got a ring-side seat for a freaky ritual. You aren't told the plot, you are shown the plot as you progress to the first settled area capable of being called a 'town', and you start hearing about the Unborn, and the witch hunts going on around them. At the time you are introduced to them, the only thing you really want to do is avoid the whole damn thing. And then there's the dead spirit you talk to under the corpse tree, which is surreal even for the fantasy setting you are in. It's clear that most people wouldn't be capable of this sort of thing, and you don't know what it means for you or for anyone else.

She gives you the next place to go, and you start slowly unraveling the mystery, and how your uniqueness fits in. You meet the fellow in the basement of the next location, and you are given one possibility to what could happen to you, specifically, if you don't get a rein on it. It's a haunting scene, because you are looking at this guy, plagued by his past lives, and see that this could be you if you screw things up.

Oh, the castle also picks you to be its owner because the previous owner no longer needs it. So there's that too.

The thing is... it treats you like an intelligent adult, and lets you do your own digging and exploring, instead of shoving the painfully obvious plot down your gullet at every opportunity. It teases you, it gives you a mystery, it gives you a sense of wonder that is nearly absent in modern RPG's, much to their detriment.

The key here is that in Pillars... you don't know what is going on. You aren't some already supernaturally powerful individual. You are just some shmuck trying to survive that gets caught up in things way out of his comfort level, and trying to survive.

I happen to really like that. But, of course, YMMV.

Haven't played DOS 2 yet, but I strongly agree with all of this.
One thing I will say about POE 1 though, is that my first run-through, I did not at all pick up on the "slowly driven mad by watcher powers" thing - I thought Maerwald (?) went mad because his past lives were so very messed up. Yeesh.
I think Pillars suffered a little from not always explaining itself properly - both mechanically and in-game.
Having said that, I find it multitudes more replayable than Original Sin.

So, my questions about Pillars 2 for when it is hopefully ported to PS4: do you start over at level 1 again? If so, is there a decent reason for it?
Also, if you bring a character from POE 1, can you respec them to multiclass etc?

[Driderman]

So, my questions about Pillars 2 for when it is hopefully ported to PS4: do you start over at level 1 again? If so, is there a decent reason for it?
Also, if you bring a character from POE 1, can you respec them to multiclass etc?

You start at level 1 again. There's an explanation for it. It's still a bit annoying, but it's tolerable I guess.
You don't so much import your old character as your save state. You complete recreate your character no matter what, it's just your choices that are imported, so yes you can multi-class. Not sure if you can import from PC til console when that comes around but the PC version at least has a very solid tool to create the save-states you want from PoE1 anyway.
I wouldn't wish playing this game on PS4 on anyone though, I can only imagine the controls will be terrible but a PS4 port should be in the works as far as I understand. Good luck! :smallbiggrin:

[Tome]

Okay, so it turns out all the good cipher abilities (aside from mind control) start to kick in at PL 4+.

Bit annoying that all your low level options are terrible. Fortunately all the low level Paladin abilities are great whilst the higher level ones are a bit meh, so it all works out for my Inquisitor. :smallbiggrin:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Okay, so it turns out all the good cipher abilities (aside from mind control) start to kick in at PL 4+.

Bit annoying that all your low level options are terrible. Fortunately all the low level Paladin abilities are great whilst the higher level ones are a bit meh, so it all works out for my Inquisitor. :smallbiggrin:

Don't Cyphers get an early (PL1-2) blind or stun effect? I could've sworn they had some rocking CC in the early game. Maybe I'm mis-remembering?

[Tome]

Don't Cyphers get an early (PL1-2) blind or stun effect? I could've sworn they had some rocking CC in the early game. Maybe I'm mis-remembering?

They do get eyestrike, a PL1 aoe blind. Probably one of the better low level options now that I think about it.

[Cespenar]

The only consequence I've noticed so far is the damage to my suspension of disbelief :smallconfused:

Why do experienced developers keep doing this!? There's nothing more annoying than a "you must urgently save the world/find the mcguffin/rescue your child/etc etc" quest and then the game proceeds to suggest you go do a thousand other things instead.

Pillars 1 did the same after Defiance Bay, where you have to follow Thaos to Twin Elms... But maybe you'll just spend 3 months traveling the Dyrwood and the White March first because apparently Thaos finally decided to spend all those accumulated vacation days on the way so no rush, really :smallamused:

Yep, and the bad side is that they could have easily addressed the issue if they realized it. It seems like they are more interested in checking the Baldur's Gate 2 checkboxes rather than actually making a game on its own. They managed to pull off quite a few good things thanks to that checkbox, but you have to use your common sense once in a while as well.

The solution in BG2 was pretty simplistic and solid, for example. You do need to save your sister, which is semi-urgent, but you need lots of gold to pay the Shadow Thieves for that, and that's why you're doing the odd jobs.

Also, while we're at it, what's with the CRPGs and their need of supplying everyone's childhood backstories in order to make them "deep"? Real people don't just give up that stuff after a few minutes of talk, if ever. Also, actual in-game actions, stances and reactions go much farther in giving depth to a character.

[Keltest]

Yep, and the bad side is that they could have easily addressed the issue if they realized it. It seems like they are more interested in checking the Baldur's Gate 2 checkboxes rather than actually making a game on its own. They managed to pull off quite a few good things thanks to that checkbox, but you have to use your common sense once in a while as well.

The solution in BG2 was pretty simplistic and solid, for example. You do need to save your sister, which is semi-urgent, but you need lots of gold to pay the Shadow Thieves for that, and that's why you're doing the odd jobs.

Also, while we're at it, what's with the CRPGs and their need of supplying everyone's childhood backstories in order to make them "deep"? Real people don't just give up that stuff after a few minutes of talk, if ever. Also, actual in-game actions, stances and reactions go much farther in giving depth to a character.

Theres a finite amount of screen time to pass the spotlight around, much of which is taken up by, well, you. Backstories are good for this then because they tell you about the character, inform what they do or do not like, and give them something that can come back later to react to.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Random question: Will there be a strategy guide for this like with the first game? I've found that it's hard to gather comprehensive information about more recently released games from their wikis or from GameFAQs, with both seeming incomplete like few people are writing as detailed guides as they have for games like Neverwinter Nights 2 or such...

[Tome]

Random question: Will there be a strategy guide for this like with the first game? I've found that it's hard to gather comprehensive information about more recently released games from their wikis or from GameFAQs, with both seeming incomplete like few people are writing as detailed guides as they have for games like Neverwinter Nights 2 or such...

Doesn't seem like they're doing an offical one for Deadfire, no.

[Psyren]

Old-school strategy guides tend to be wastes of trees anyway. The combat info is often a single patch away from being obsolete, and describing where to go in static text is nowhere near as helpful as a YouTube clip. Gamefaqs is now almost as bad - the days of the internet when text guides were needed to save on bandwidth are long gone.

The modern solution to walking through a game is a wiki - either a dedicated one for the game in question (often, but not always, found on Wikia), IGN's Wiki Guides, or Gamepressure tend to be much more useful at least for me.

[Driderman]

They do get eyestrike, a PL1 aoe blind. Probably one of the better low level options now that I think about it.

Eyestrike is sweet, especially if you're dualclassed as a Rogue, or have other Rogues in the party

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Old-school strategy guides tend to be wastes of trees anyway. The combat info is often a single patch away from being obsolete, and describing where to go in static text is nowhere near as helpful as a YouTube clip. Gamefaqs is now almost as bad - the days of the internet when text guides were needed to save on bandwidth are long gone.

The modern solution to walking through a game is a wiki - either a dedicated one for the game in question (often, but not always, found on Wikia), IGN's Wiki Guides, or Gamepressure tend to be much more useful at least for me.
In principle, I agree with you, but in my experience, those guides tend to just cover the most basic information, meaning if you're a perfectionist like me and want to build your character so they don't fail the skill checks the game throws at you, you're fumbling around in the dark, or they're simply incomplete, which results in the same problem, and in terms of describing quests and stuff they're self-contained in individual articles that don't indicate how other quests are impacted by them, especially since you can't have the guide open in front of you while you're playing the game, meaning you either have to try and fiddle with a tiny smart-phone screen, or constantly interrupt the flow of gameplay by switching back and forth between the game and the guide, especially if it was a YouTube guide. It's REALLY frustrating. :smallannoyed:

[huttj509]

Is there a good resource for customising AI?

I just want my guys to stay put when I tell them to but not sit there not shooting after using an ability.

[Tome]

Is there a good resource for customising AI?

I just want my guys to stay put when I tell them to but not sit there not shooting after using an ability.

Are you using the 1.1 beta patch? Because it includes AI upgrades for that.

[Rusty Spoon]

You start at level 1 again. There's an explanation for it. It's still a bit annoying, but it's tolerable I guess.
You don't so much import your old character as your save state. You complete recreate your character no matter what, it's just your choices that are imported, so yes you can multi-class. Not sure if you can import from PC til console when that comes around but the PC version at least has a very solid tool to create the save-states you want from PoE1 anyway.
I wouldn't wish playing this game on PS4 on anyone though, I can only imagine the controls will be terrible but a PS4 port should be in the works as far as I understand. Good luck! :smallbiggrin:

The PS4 port for Pillars 1 was really good, in my opinion. Inventory management got a little wonky at times... equipping off-hand items, I think, normally took two attempts. But otherwise really good, never played the PC version to compare so maybe that helps.

Also also, might attempt a complete run through to prepare myself for 2 - I know Eder is available again, and... the elf wizard? Anyone else come through for the sequel? For my sense of continuity. Don't mind spoilers for the start of the game.

[Tome]

Also also, might attempt a complete run through to prepare myself for 2 - I know Eder is available again, and... the elf wizard? Anyone else come through for the sequel? For my sense of continuity. Don't mind spoilers for the start of the game.

The returning companions are Eder, Aloth and Pallegina. Kana's sister is also a companion.

[Psyren]

In principle, I agree with you, but in my experience, those guides tend to just cover the most basic information, meaning if you're a perfectionist like me and want to build your character so they don't fail the skill checks the game throws at you, you're fumbling around in the dark, or they're simply incomplete, which results in the same problem, and in terms of describing quests and stuff they're self-contained in individual articles that don't indicate how other quests are impacted by them, especially since you can't have the guide open in front of you while you're playing the game, meaning you either have to try and fiddle with a tiny smart-phone screen, or constantly interrupt the flow of gameplay by switching back and forth between the game and the guide, especially if it was a YouTube guide. It's REALLY frustrating. :smallannoyed:

On the contrary, the Gamepressure guide at least tells you what stat you need for the various checks, and likely the wiki too. As for YouTube, I only use it if a given map has a confusing layout and I need to know where to find something or what it looks like.

Personally having a printed guide would break the flow for me just as much (needing to glance down at my lap away from the screen) - and anyway I play on a laptop, so there's not much room for a book in any event since the computer is there. So that may explain my disdain for them.

[Aotrs Commander]

Head's up, by-the-by - the Devs have said (in reply to me personally, because clearly I'm that awesome...) that the fixes for the too-quickly-increasing companion dispositions are in in the coming patch (the one in current open beta).

As - for me - this was the main issue and why I was going to re-start (as I while it it the deal-brealer for other people, difficulty if not my concern personally), I felt as it isn't directly in their current change notes I should share here.

[Cespenar]

So since the base game isn't really hard and the factions make it kinda replayable, I was thinking of a way to "up the ante", so to say. Something like Ironman mode, but more forgiving, and possibly more dramatic. A similar feel to XCOM.

I have the following, does anyone have any suggestions to make it even more dramatic?

Let's call it Obsidianman, because the main gimmick is kinda evil, and punny.

-One save only.
-No resting. So death through 3 injuries is actually a threat.
-Upon main char death or party death I can reload, but have to sacrifice one companion to Berath to do this. In game meaning is that I'll put that companion into the bench and not recruit them.
-I'm thinking about the possibility of resting with a sacrifice as well?
-Can't use the faceless mercs as sacrifice.
-Normal difficulty, I think.

[houlio]

So since the base game isn't really hard and the factions make it kinda replayable, I was thinking of a way to "up the ante", so to say. Something like Ironman mode, but more forgiving, and possibly more dramatic. A similar feel to XCOM.

I have the following, does anyone have any suggestions to make it even more dramatic?

Let's call it Obsidianman, because the main gimmick is kinda evil, and punny.

-One save only.
-No resting. So death through 3 injuries is actually a threat.
-Upon main char death or party death I can reload, but have to sacrifice one companion to Berath to do this. In game meaning is that I'll put that companion into the bench and not recruit them.
-I'm thinking about the possibility of resting with a sacrifice as well?
-Can't use the faceless mercs as sacrifice.
-Normal difficulty, I think.

Perhaps only allow resting when at sea (and only using hardtack/water to avoid the bonuses)? Apparently the latest patch has really upped the difficulty (although I can't confirm that yet). Maybe as far as resting goes, I would add the caveat that once you choose to go on a certain quest/adventure, you aren't allowed to rest until it's been completed.

[Tome]

Perhaps only allow resting when at sea (and only using hardtack/water to avoid the bonuses)? Apparently the latest patch has really upped the difficulty (although I can't confirm that yet). Maybe as far as resting goes, I would add the caveat that once you choose to go on a certain quest/adventure, you aren't allowed to rest until it's been completed.

Patch has indeed upped the difficulty quite well - at the lower levels. Level scaling is still being worked on and until it's done the mid to late game is still stupidly easy because nothing scales properly.

Might I suggest only resting at inns?

[Cespenar]

Perhaps only allow resting when at sea (and only using hardtack/water to avoid the bonuses)? Apparently the latest patch has really upped the difficulty (although I can't confirm that yet). Maybe as far as resting goes, I would add the caveat that once you choose to go on a certain quest/adventure, you aren't allowed to rest until it's been completed.


Patch has indeed upped the difficulty quite well - at the lower levels. Level scaling is still being worked on and until it's done the mid to late game is still stupidly easy because nothing scales properly.

Might I suggest only resting at inns?

These sound cool, but since resting will already be pretty rare with these rules (several times throughout a game, maybe?), I don't think a further regulation would be necessary.

It seems like a sensible enough rule to be included maybe into a lighter version, like Coalman or something (:smalltongue:), where resting is allowed but only at inns.

[houlio]

The only other big thing I could think of would be doing something to change up your lineup regularly, but that might lean towards being too much busywork.

[Keltest]

Given how readily available gold is, im not sure that enforcing permanent character death would be in any way meaningful except for the companions, since you could just go out and whip up Rogue Clone #17 the next time youre in an inn.

[NRSASD]

I've got a good feeling about Rogue Clone 17. This one for sure!

[Keltest]

I've got a good feeling about Rogue Clone 17. This one for sure!

17 is a good number. (http://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/send-in-the-clones)

[Cespenar]

Given how readily available gold is, im not sure that enforcing permanent character death would be in any way meaningful except for the companions, since you could just go out and whip up Rogue Clone #17 the next time youre in an inn.

I might as well ban mercs altogether.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I watched some videos of Deadfire and now I'm honestly torn. The Whispers of the Endless Path looks pretty sweet, but I don't want Modwyr to be sad anymore! :smallfrown:

That's honestly the reason I can't do evil playthroughs of any game. I hate to see an NPC cry.

[Tome]

I watched some videos of Deadfire and now I'm honestly torn. The Whispers of the Endless Path looks pretty sweet, but I don't want Modwyr to be sad anymore! :smallfrown:

That's honestly the reason I can't do evil playthroughs of any game. I hate to see an NPC cry.

If it makes it easier for you, the whispers got nerfed into the ground in the upcoming patch.

[Morty]

I'm honestly not sure how or why that's a problem. :smallconfused:

[Archpaladin Zousha]

True. I wasn't interested in the Whispers for its power, but for the cool factor of two broken magic swords being forged together into an even cooler weapon! Like if Anduril had been reforged with Gurthang or something!

A nerf won't change that cool factor. :smallconfused:

[Tome]

True. I wasn't interested in the Whispers for its power, but for the cool factor of two broken magic swords being forged together into an even cooler weapon! Like if Anduril had been reforged with Gurthang or something!

A nerf won't change that cool factor. :smallconfused:

Make the whispers and let Pallegena wield it?

EDIT By the by, there's a certain unique staff for sale in the magic shop in nekehatara with a plant theme that can be plot relevant in a particular area. Worth picking up and having someone wield.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

The Spine of Thicket Green? That DOES look attractive for a druid character...

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Sorry for the double-posting but I had a bit of a spoilery question:

What do you folks think is the most ethical way to deal with Thaos once he's been beaten? I'm planning on playing my Watcher with a consistent ethical framework that we need to move on from our pasts, but that our memories and mistakes need to be remembered so we don't make the same mistakes again, so I plan on, for example, encouraging Grieving Mother and Maneha to not willingly undergo amnesia, convincing the Eyeless to temper Abydon's memories when they reform him, and stuff. When defeating Thaos, however, just letting his soul go back to The Wheel with his memories intact feels like just kicking the problem down the line for someone else to deal with, as he's established that when he comes of age in a new body, he regains all his memories of his past lives and proceeds to begin scheming anew. If I erase his memories, however, that not only is inconsistent with the ethical model I'll have been playing with for the entire game, but seems unnecessarily cruel, as Iovara BEGS you not to do it if you try to do the same to her, in both cases essentially causing their identities to be erased. Imprisoning his soul or destroying it are pretty dang cruel too. So is it more ethical to release Thaos with the potential to rise again and cause even more trouble years later, or do I take one of the measures to stop him permanently and betray my Watcher's ethics?

[Keltest]

Sorry for the double-posting but I had a bit of a spoilery question:

What do you folks think is the most ethical way to deal with Thaos once he's been beaten? I'm planning on playing my Watcher with a consistent ethical framework that we need to move on from our pasts, but that our memories and mistakes need to be remembered so we don't make the same mistakes again, so I plan on, for example, encouraging Grieving Mother and Maneha to not willingly undergo amnesia, convincing the Eyeless to temper Abydon's memories when they reform him, and stuff. When defeating Thaos, however, just letting his soul go back to The Wheel with his memories intact feels like just kicking the problem down the line for someone else to deal with, as he's established that when he comes of age in a new body, he regains all his memories of his past lives and proceeds to begin scheming anew. If I erase his memories, however, that not only is inconsistent with the ethical model I'll have been playing with for the entire game, but seems unnecessarily cruel, as Iovara BEGS you not to do it if you try to do the same to her, in both cases essentially causing their identities to be erased. Imprisoning his soul or destroying it are pretty dang cruel too. So is it more ethical to release Thaos with the potential to rise again and cause even more trouble years later, or do I take one of the measures to stop him permanently and betray my Watcher's ethics?

Whats wrong with throwing him into Soul Jail?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

After what Iovara went through in there? I'm not sure I'd wish that on anyone. Plus, if you can free Iovara from it, someone could conceivably free Thaos later.

[houlio]

After what Iovara went through in there? I'm not sure I'd wish that on anyone. Plus, if you can free Iovara from it, someone could conceivably free Thaos later.

It seems like your two options are going to be destroying his soul or just returning it to the Wheel. Do you think destroying his soul is more evil than letting it return to the world (presumably where he continues his machinations)?

[Driderman]

Sorry for the double-posting but I had a bit of a spoilery question:

What do you folks think is the most ethical way to deal with Thaos once he's been beaten? I'm planning on playing my Watcher with a consistent ethical framework that we need to move on from our pasts, but that our memories and mistakes need to be remembered so we don't make the same mistakes again, so I plan on, for example, encouraging Grieving Mother and Maneha to not willingly undergo amnesia, convincing the Eyeless to temper Abydon's memories when they reform him, and stuff. When defeating Thaos, however, just letting his soul go back to The Wheel with his memories intact feels like just kicking the problem down the line for someone else to deal with, as he's established that when he comes of age in a new body, he regains all his memories of his past lives and proceeds to begin scheming anew. If I erase his memories, however, that not only is inconsistent with the ethical model I'll have been playing with for the entire game, but seems unnecessarily cruel, as Iovara BEGS you not to do it if you try to do the same to her, in both cases essentially causing their identities to be erased. Imprisoning his soul or destroying it are pretty dang cruel too. So is it more ethical to release Thaos with the potential to rise again and cause even more trouble years later, or do I take one of the measures to stop him permanently and betray my Watcher's ethics?

I'd say the memory wipe seems the more ethical solution as it lets him start anew. He's been reliving the same past life for millenia now, he needs a reboot. Personally though, I simply destroyed him, seems to me he already had his chance for redemption and very actively chose not to take it, better take his spiritual out of the equation to be sure it doesn't mess up things in the future again.

[Morty]

Sorry for the double-posting but I had a bit of a spoilery question:

What do you folks think is the most ethical way to deal with Thaos once he's been beaten? I'm planning on playing my Watcher with a consistent ethical framework that we need to move on from our pasts, but that our memories and mistakes need to be remembered so we don't make the same mistakes again, so I plan on, for example, encouraging Grieving Mother and Maneha to not willingly undergo amnesia, convincing the Eyeless to temper Abydon's memories when they reform him, and stuff. When defeating Thaos, however, just letting his soul go back to The Wheel with his memories intact feels like just kicking the problem down the line for someone else to deal with, as he's established that when he comes of age in a new body, he regains all his memories of his past lives and proceeds to begin scheming anew. If I erase his memories, however, that not only is inconsistent with the ethical model I'll have been playing with for the entire game, but seems unnecessarily cruel, as Iovara BEGS you not to do it if you try to do the same to her, in both cases essentially causing their identities to be erased. Imprisoning his soul or destroying it are pretty dang cruel too. So is it more ethical to release Thaos with the potential to rise again and cause even more trouble years later, or do I take one of the measures to stop him permanently and betray my Watcher's ethics?

I don't see what's wrong with scrubbing the soul of its memories and sending it back to the Wheel. That's what souls are supposed to do, and memories of past lives are either deliberate tampering or glitches in the system that help no one. Let it be reborn into something and someone else as souls should.

[lord_khaine]

Its certainly what i did. Thanos was an awful monster who had had caused more death and suffering than likely any single god you would care to mention. Killing him seems like a rather just thing to prevent further atrocities.
Problem:Killing him only solves the problem for 16-17 years.
Solution: shrub his soul clean of memories its not meant to hold anyway.

[houlio]

I'd say the memory wipe seems the more ethical solution as it lets him start anew. He's been reliving the same past life for millenia now, he needs a reboot. Personally though, I simply destroyed him, seems to me he already had his chance for redemption and very actively chose not to take it, better take his spiritual out of the equation to be sure it doesn't mess up things in the future again.


I don't see what's wrong with scrubbing the soul of its memories and sending it back to the Wheel. That's what souls are supposed to do, and memories of past lives are either deliberate tampering or glitches in the system that help no one. Let it be reborn into something and someone else as souls should.

So, I was under the impression that wiping the memories of Thaos' soul left it a blank slate, but that it wouldn't remove the powers of it. There might not be any memories to recall right away, but they can build up again. Am I incorrect here?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I don't see what's wrong with scrubbing the soul of its memories and sending it back to the Wheel. That's what souls are supposed to do, and memories of past lives are either deliberate tampering or glitches in the system that help no one. Let it be reborn into something and someone else as souls should.
Well, the problem I have with scrubbing the soul is that it essentially makes me a hypocrite. If I've spent the rest of the game telling Grieving Mother and Maneha, "No I'm not going to scrub your memories, they may hurt but you have to learn from them in order to be healed" and Iovara reacts to the prospect of returning her to the Wheel without her memories of the truth of the gods as the most horrifying prospect possible and BEGS me to not do that, then erasing Thaos' memory essentially says "Erasing memories is okay after all, but only for people I decide are bad." That's not a very ethical stance to take.

[Keltest]

Well, the problem I have with scrubbing the soul is that it essentially makes me a hypocrite. If I've spent the rest of the game telling Grieving Mother and Maneha, "No I'm not going to scrub your memories, they may hurt but you have to learn from them in order to be healed" and Iovara reacts to the prospect of returning her to the Wheel without her memories of the truth of the gods as the most horrifying prospect possible and BEGS me to not do that, then erasing Thaos' memory essentially says "Erasing memories is okay after all, but only for people I decide are bad." That's not a very ethical stance to take.

I don't think its all that hypocritical. You aren't hiding Thaos from his past wounds, youre doing it because he's a homicidal maniac inflicting a whole lot of harm on people. He's using the retention of his memories to avoid personal change and growth, as opposed to, say, Aloth. And it isn't really any different from killing any of the other people or animals you encounter, since their souls wont be able to remember anything upon reincarnation either.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

So it's sort of like "Holding on to bad memories is just as bad as trying to act like they never happened" in a way?

[Keltest]

So it's sort of like "Holding on to bad memories is just as bad as trying to completely forget them" in a way?

More like "Using the past as an excuse to avoid change is bad no matter which way youre doing it."

[Tome]

There's also the point that you're not trying to heal Thaos, you're trying to make him not be a threat anymore. That can demand a very different response from when you're helping people.

Personally, I took the view that Thaos was too dangerous to ever be allowed to return. I destroyed his soul rather than allow even the slightest chance of that.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

The main issue I have with destroying Thaos is that if you want to be consistent, the souls Thaos stole should be destroyed as well. Otherwise, that sends the message that destroying souls IS okay, but only for people you don't like. Again, the concern is turning my Watcher into a hypocrite.

[Keltest]

The main issue I have with destroying Thaos is that if you want to be consistent, the souls Thaos stole should be destroyed as well. Otherwise, that sends the message that destroying souls IS okay, but only for people you don't like. Again, the concern is turning my Watcher into a hypocrite.

Then pick one of the options that isn't "destroy Thaos' soul." Theres really only the one option to do that, and even if Soul Jail isn't at all a nice place, well, he should have thought of that before messing with the Wheel. Remember that Thaos' current state is an aberration. You can just leave him be, sure, but its contrary to the way everything else works. Wiping his memories is just resetting the system back to factory default for him.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

That's probably what I'll do then. Thanks for the advice, everybody! :smallsmile:

[Tome]

The main issue I have with destroying Thaos is that if you want to be consistent, the souls Thaos stole should be destroyed as well. Otherwise, that sends the message that destroying souls IS okay, but only for people you don't like. Again, the concern is turning my Watcher into a hypocrite.

Not really. None of those souls are as likely to go commit atrocities as Thaos. The message would be more like "destroying souls is generally bad, but in the case of mass-murdering, conspiracy-leading fanatics who reincarnate with perfect recall, can be better than risking them returning".

After all, killing is bad and yet during the course of the game you will likely seek out certain sufficiently bad people with the intent of killing them in order to stop them.

[Cespenar]

Did anyone else had this irritating situation near the end in Deadfire:

As an overall good-ish Watcher supporting the Huana and the Queen, her endgame quest is so out-of-the-blue cruel and terrorist-like that I switched sides then and there, just like that. I'm trying the Vailians' quest now, which seems to aim for a similar overall big-picture result, but with a much more reasonable methods. I haven't finished it yet, though.

[Tome]

Did anyone else had this irritating situation near the end in Deadfire:

As an overall good-ish Watcher supporting the Huana and the Queen, her endgame quest is so out-of-the-blue cruel and terrorist-like that I switched sides then and there, just like that. I'm trying the Vailians' quest now, which seems to aim for a similar overall big-picture result, but with a much more reasonable methods. I haven't finished it yet, though.

From what I've read, all of them do. There's a way to avoid it though. If you do the RDC line to the end the faction leader won't let you refuse and will attack you if you do. If she's dead the Vailians and Huana will no longer ask you to do their final quests.

Only the Principi won't ask you to do something evil for their final quest.

Alternatively a fully upgraded ship lets you say screw it and just go it alone. Or just do the principi quest line and never hand in the ghost ship for the same effect.

[Cespenar]

From what I've read, all of them do. There's a way to avoid it though. If you do the RDC line to the end the faction leader won't let you refuse and will attack you if you do. If she's dead the Vailians and Huana will no longer ask you to do their final quests.

Only the Principi won't ask you to do something evil for their final quest.

Alternatively a fully upgraded ship lets you say screw it and just go it alone. Or just do the principi quest line and never hand in the ghost ship for the same effect.

So far it looks underhanded yet not outright evil in the Vailian quest. Let's see how it develops.

It's weird that they didn't put any alternate methods for the Huana one. Often such quests have at least a couple different ways to do them.

[Keltest]

So far it looks underhanded yet not outright evil in the Vailian quest. Let's see how it develops.

It's weird that they didn't put any alternate methods for the Huana one. Often such quests have at least a couple different ways to do them.

Its the same darn quest for the Huana and the Valians. Which side you pick just determines who you cast the blame on and how easy it is to get in there and plant the bomb.

[Cespenar]

Ok, not looking. :smalltongue:

[Cespenar]

Sorry to double-post but yep, finally followed that quest to the end, and turns out it arrives at indeed the same terrorism quest. Which, again, I dropped there.

Which leads me to: do I throw roleplaying out of the window, or faff for a bit to gather some gold and go do the whole goddamn thing myself? I'll try the second one for a while, see how it goes. But wow is this disappointing. It's a pretty basic thing to just put up a deception method that would pull the soldiers elsewhere and only explode the gunpowder itself. A handful of lines, a skill check, a fadeout.

Eh, I guess stuff at the end of the game often tends to be rushed, but still.

[Tome]

Sorry to double-post but yep, finally followed that quest to the end, and turns out it arrives at indeed the same terrorism quest. Which, again, I dropped there.

Which leads me to: do I throw roleplaying out of the window, or faff for a bit to gather some gold and go do the whole goddamn thing myself? I'll try the second one for a while, see how it goes. But wow is this disappointing. It's a pretty basic thing to just put up a deception method that would pull the soldiers elsewhere and only explode the gunpowder itself. A handful of lines, a skill check, a fadeout.

Eh, I guess stuff at the end of the game often tends to be rushed, but still.

The "go it alone" route does have the worst ending, as the deadfire descends into chaos and war.

The "get the Hazanui to attack you" route is probably better if you want to be internally consistent.

[Keltest]

Sorry to double-post but yep, finally followed that quest to the end, and turns out it arrives at indeed the same terrorism quest. Which, again, I dropped there.

Which leads me to: do I throw roleplaying out of the window, or faff for a bit to gather some gold and go do the whole goddamn thing myself? I'll try the second one for a while, see how it goes. But wow is this disappointing. It's a pretty basic thing to just put up a deception method that would pull the soldiers elsewhere and only explode the gunpowder itself. A handful of lines, a skill check, a fadeout.

Eh, I guess stuff at the end of the game often tends to be rushed, but still.

Don't worry, at least the Royal Deadfire Company doesn't want you to blow the gunpowder.

[Cespenar]

The "go it alone" route does have the worst ending, as the deadfire descends into chaos and war.

The "get the Hazanui to attack you" route is probably better if you want to be intenrally consistent.

I have little issues with consistent roleplaying leading to an overall unforeseeable worse ending.

But I guess the Hazanui trick could be managed faster.


Don't worry, at least the Royal Deadfire Company doesn't want you to blow the gunpowder.

I wouldn't be surprised if they did, at this rate.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

It isn't any better, though. I'll say no more unless you want to be spoiled.

[Cespenar]

Thanks but no about spoilers. I'm knee deep in it already, albeit unintentionally.

Damn is this a pickle. Did everyone else just grit their teeth and went with it? I'm not trying to play a saint here, but even for a reasonably "normal" personality this is pretty much a dead end.

I think I'll just play a right bastard with my second character. Feels more fitting to the setting.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Honestly, I think that's part of the point here. The first game had you dealing with an unquestionably bad bad guy, and in this game they're doing more of a gray vs. gray Witcher 3 setup, where no sollution is unambiguously in the right or wrong, and that no matter who you ultimately side with, what they're asking you to do is their dirty work.

[Cespenar]

Honestly, I think that's part of the point here. The first game had you dealing with an unquestionably bad bad guy, and in this game they're doing more of a gray vs. gray Witcher 3 setup, where no sollution is unambiguously in the right or wrong, and that no matter who you ultimately side with, what they're asking you to do is their dirty work.

I like to be driven into ethical dilemmas by games. This is not that. This is merely a designer forgetting to put a few extra paths like they did into every quest of the game.

Meh. Anyway, I won't take any further of anyone's time on this.

[Keltest]

I like to be driven into ethical dilemmas by games. This is not that. This is merely a designer forgetting to put a few extra paths like they did into every quest of the game.

Meh.

In the second game, youre basically a spark about to fall on the powder keg of war in the Deadfire. Youre going to fall, so the only real choice you have is where the blaze starts and which direction it flows.

[Cespenar]

In the second game, youre basically a spark about to fall on the powder keg of war in the Deadfire. Youre going to fall, so the only real choice you have is where the blaze starts and which direction it flows.

That's a good description in itself, but it still doesn't explain the lack of any options for a very straightforward quest, when the game makes a point of providing at least 2-4 paths to every other quest.

Anyway, as I said, I won't bore everyone else with this any more. It's just a bad design choice in my opinion.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Weird question: if I'm playing a Pale Elf who was a slave, which origin place would make the most sense with the lore?

Aedyr
Deadfire Archipelago
Old Vailia
Rauatai

[Keltest]

Weird question: if I'm playing a Pale Elf who was a slave, which origin place would make the most sense with the lore?

Aedyr
Deadfire Archipelago
Old Vailia
Rauatai

Pretty much any of them besides Deadfire, where enslaving the locals is illegal.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

True, but the presence of Crookspur shows that despite it being illegal, it still happens.

[Keltest]

True, but the presence of Crookspur shows that despite it being illegal, it still happens.

Granted, but from my understanding most residents of the Deadfire do not employ slaves. the Huana and Principi don't on matters of principal, and the trading companies don't want to alienate the Huana that far to make widespread practice of it. Im sure its possible, but it would be a very special snowflake kind of thing.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I see. Thank you for the insight, Keltest! :smallsmile:

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Question for both games: can a character use more than one Soulbonded item, or if you're already bonded to one and find another one you want to use do you have to sever your bond with the first one to bond with the new one?

[Keltest]

Question for both games: can a character use more than one Soulbonded item, or if you're already bonded to one and find another one you want to use do you have to sever your bond with the first one to bond with the new one?

I think you can use multiple ones, however almost all of the ones I can think of are weapons, which naturally compete for slots. Many of them are also two handed, further complicating things.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Thank you! There's also the new Deadfire FreeLC that released for the first game after Deadfire's release. Included in it are a Soulbound belt and tricorn hat!

[Tome]

There's actually plenty of one handed soulbound weapons, not to mention the shield and armour.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Funny thing happened... I got a Vaal Righteous Fire. Not sure how I'm supposed to use it, but I'm pretty sure I don't have the gear required to use it properly just yet. But I hear it is stupidly powerful somehow.

[The Hellbug]

Funny thing happened... I got a Vaal Righteous Fire. Not sure how I'm supposed to use it, but I'm pretty sure I don't have the gear required to use it properly just yet. But I hear it is stupidly powerful somehow.

Might wanna go put that in the Path of Exile thread, friend. :smalltongue:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Might wanna go put that in the Path of Exile thread, friend. :smalltongue:

Eh, Exile, Eternity... who cares?

Anyway, so I have something relevant, I've been doing a pretty interesting job on my first game. Gotten parts of the castle fixed. Aiming to repair the whole thing eventually. Don't really know how the mechanics of it turn out, but I've sunk a good chunk into it so far. Not sure how strong it would be to unlock the inn, then all the things that buff you when you stay at said in, how long do those buffs really last?

[Tome]

Eh, Exile, Eternity... who cares?

Anyway, so I have something relevant, I've been doing a pretty interesting job on my first game. Gotten parts of the castle fixed. Aiming to repair the whole thing eventually. Don't really know how the mechanics of it turn out, but I've sunk a good chunk into it so far. Not sure how strong it would be to unlock the inn, then all the things that buff you when you stay at said in, how long do those buffs really last?

The buffs last for the next couple of rests if I recall, and a quite hefty. However you can get similar buffs from resting at inns and they don't stack (though the buffs from camping do stack with inn/Caed Nua buffs).

[Rusty Spoon]

Eh, Exile, Eternity... who cares?

Anyway, so I have something relevant, I've been doing a pretty interesting job on my first game. Gotten parts of the castle fixed. Aiming to repair the whole thing eventually. Don't really know how the mechanics of it turn out, but I've sunk a good chunk into it so far. Not sure how strong it would be to unlock the inn, then all the things that buff you when you stay at said in, how long do those buffs really last?

I found them pretty good for general party buffing, or niche skill boosting when you know you'll need it. The annoying this is only being able to use one buff per rest.
Overall worth the upgrades though, and I spent so much travelling backwards and forwards that I could always in drop in at Caed Nua and grab a buff or two and really noticed the difference between when I had them or not.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Question about Caed Nua:

I'm getting contradictory information about how it progresses. The wiki indicates that Stronghold Turns pass based on getting experience and leveling up, implying that once you hit the game's level cap, you cannot do anything further with your Stronghold, and need to plan regular returns to Caed Nua into your game so you don't accidentally level up multiple times and miss a turn. Tome, on the other hand, indicated that you can make Stronghold Turns pass manually by resting multiple times. I want to know for sure what I'm doing so I can "max out" Caed Nua and get the most rewards from it as possible.

My understanding was that Caed Nua was like Crossroad Keep in Neverwinter Nights 2, in that in order to get the best results, you had to meticulously plan out when and how you did things there before it hit 100% and you were stuck.

[Keltest]

Question about Caed Nua:

I'm getting contradictory information about how it progresses. The wiki indicates that Stronghold Turns pass based on getting experience and leveling up, implying that once you hit the game's level cap, you cannot do anything further with your Stronghold, and need to plan regular returns to Caed Nua into your game so you don't accidentally level up multiple times and miss a turn. Tome, on the other hand, indicated that you can make Stronghold Turns pass manually by resting multiple times. I want to know for sure what I'm doing so I can "max out" Caed Nua and get the most rewards from it as possible.

My understanding was that Caed Nua was like Crossroad Keep in Neverwinter Nights 2, in that in order to get the best results, you had to meticulously plan out when and how you did things there before it hit 100% and you were stuck.

about 80% of Caed Nua is based on game time passing. Days, hours, etc... If you have a massive gold cache and forgot to build anything in Caed Nua, you can just spend a month of game time rebuilding your fortress, and youll be golden. You might miss out on a couple items that way, and Caed Nua itself actually brings some decent benefits, but a vast majority of its content is based on time, not turns.

[Aotrs Commander]

As I dimly recall, the turn element is not based on level, but on quest progression or something, I think. I.e., it would update (et al) when you completed a bit of a quest (i.e. when you did something that warrented a note in the quest log or something).

(Though was that the final version or an earlier stage..?)

Edit: Bit of a clarifcation: a stronghold turn is something that is not a set unit of time, but is I believe, ticked over when you complete quests or bits of quests.

Maybe go ask on the OBS forums?

[Morty]

I think it would be hard to intentionally design something half as obtuse and all-around awful as the keep in NWN2. Caed Nua is pretty simple. Building upgrades takes real time, so resting and travelling will progress it, but adventures and events are based on turns, which occur as you advance and complete quests.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Something I've been wondering since starting the game a few times, and I was wondering if you folks could help me with my indecision.

Something I've been indecisive about recently has been the origin of my Pale Elf Cipher, a Mystic from the White that Wends. I can't decide in the conversation about it with Calisca whether I want her to be a theologian or have visions, and how those to connect with the later narrative of her past life. She's from the White that Wends because that's where the majority of Pale Elves come from, and Mystic makes the most sense for a character focusing on magical powers like a Cipher.

The theologian option, where she feels frustrated at the lack of information about the gods, would sort of echo her past life with Iovara and Thaos, since from what I understand, the big moment in the Watcher's past life is when they approach Thaos and ask him a single question: "Are there no gods?"

The vision option, on the other hand, synergizes well with her status AS a Watcher and as a Cipher, especially when you get prophetic dreams about the Eyeless to wrap up Part I of The White March. The question, after that, becomes whether she came to the Dyrwood because a vision said so or she didn't want to be used by people and came to the Dyrwood seeking anonymity. And in turn, that informs what she plans to do upon reaching Gilded Vale. If she came to the Dyrwood because of a vision, then she should probably say she wants to continue wandering, presumably until she gets an update from another vision. Contrasting, if she left the White that Wends because factions wanted to use her, and she wants anonymity, then she probably wants to stay in Gilded Vale to "lie low." That also ties in with the past life, since Iovara and Thaos both sort of want to use her to further their agendas.

All of them kind of work in a narrative sense, but I'm having trouble deciding what would make the most compelling one for her origins. What do you folks, who've played the game in its entirety, presumably multiple times even, think? Which way should I take the Watcher's backstory in?

[JadedDM]

Well, I did it. After three months, I have finished...all of the currently available sidequests. Now to resume the main storyline. On to Hasango! I'm level 20 now, so it should be pretty easy, I'm guessing.

By the way, the first expansion came out (already???) the other day, The Beast of Winter. It's only $10, so I reckon it's pretty short. Anyone try it yet?

[Rising Phoenix]

Well, I did it. After three months, I have finished...all of the currently available sidequests. Now to resume the main storyline. On to Hasango! I'm level 20 now, so it should be pretty easy, I'm guessing.

By the way, the first expansion came out (already???) the other day, The Beast of Winter. It's only $10, so I reckon it's pretty short. Anyone try it yet?

Waiting for them to release all of the dlc before playing the game again. I was not impressed with the number of bugs in deadfire...e.g. they prevented me from completing Aloth's personal quest.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Haven't tried it yet, but I DO know that some of the gear in it looks AMAZING! :smallcool:

https://i.imgur.com/JaWyCkx.png

The armor here is called One Dozen Stood, and the axe is called Oathbreaker's End, a unique battle axe that requires two hands to wield!
https://i.imgur.com/1uQ0MdP.png

The Twin Eels Greatsword!
https://i.imgur.com/Qeqp4dc.png

[JadedDM]

Made it to the end game, and after learning about a specific revelation regarding the godlike, I now wonder...

If the reason Eothas has no godlike (never seen any or even heard about or read about any), is because of the fact that godlike only exist as an auxiliary energy supply for the gods, to suck up whenever they need a sudden boost in power. Eothas would never treat kith that way, and hence, he would choose to never have godlike.