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View Full Version : Player Help Need Help Concerning Skills and Character Flavor



Waifu
2018-05-15, 07:46 PM
So, in a low-level 3.x edition campaign I'm playing, I'm playing a Rogue/Artificer who loves anything and everything concerning magic. For this reason, he has max ranks in Knowledge: Arcana, Spellcraft, and Use Magic Device. This guy has studied this stuff all his life, and (at least in my head) it makes sense that he would be the one in the party with the highest bonus to it, since I have a legitimate flavor reason for him to. However, there's another player in the group who just happens to be better than me in all three of those skills. I've asked him about it, and he hasn't given me a reason to why he's so good at all those skills-he just is.
I would just like to know if I really do have a right to be as annoyed as I am concerning this, and maybe what I should try to do about this-if I should do something about this.

bean illus
2018-05-15, 08:04 PM
Well being annoyed serves no purpose whatsoever, and probably isn't Fun for anybody, so drop that idea entirely.

You say you have Max ranks, so how can the other guy have a higher total? Does he have a higher ability bonus?

The real question might be; Do you have the tools to deal with the situations the DM puts you in? Those three skills are highly situational, and may rarely be used in some campaigns.

Waifu
2018-05-15, 08:29 PM
In our campaign, we are in a high-magic setting. Spellcraft and Knowledge: Arcana checks have actually been very common, but UMD has been fairly rare.
All I know about his character is that he is a Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold, and roughly has 26 Intelligence. To my knowledge, he is using character templates, but I am unsure of which ones he has.
The reason why this is so irritating is because his characters don't have backstories, flavor, or personality (he even neglected to give it a gender). It probably doesn't help that he has the habit of bragging about his high bonuses.

Kayblis
2018-05-15, 09:12 PM
If this isn't a mock thread, I'd say your friend is playing a whole different game than you. The Dragonwrought Kobold is a very famous base for casters in high-optimization games and thought exercises. It gets all the benefits from age and no penalties, and he lives for way longer than anyone else. Your friend is probably using a Spellhoarding template, which is a dragon-only mental illness with huge roleplay consequences(so it's a big fault on your DM for giving it no penalties in-game) that include megalomaniac mentality and a clear "no one can have my toys and I must have ALL" attitude. This illness gives bonuses on INT, spellcasting and some skills such as Spellcraft. Making such a character and not giving it any personality at all is not just a red flag, it's a clear warning that this player will be a problem to everyone in the table.

So, yeah, unless the DM steps in, he'll be better than everyone else in literally everything. Talk with your DM.

Doctor Awkward
2018-05-15, 09:35 PM
^ To be clear about this, a player who is more concerned with filling in the numbers and getting the best possible bonuses than he is with creating a rich and detailed backstory is not doing anything wrong.

He is just playing a different game then you are.

If you trust the DM to run a fair game, then there is nothing to worry about. He probably is well-aware of what the player is capable of.

But having a hang-up because his character is capable of doing a thing is a personal issue you will have to get over in order to play at the same table as him. In fact having another character who is good at doing the same checks you are offers you a great opportunity to roleplay around him. You should be wanting to be best buddies with this guy: comparing notes, swapping bits of arcane lore, and seeing if he can fill in any gaps in your knowledge. He might actually reciprocate a positive attempt at engaging him in some light RP.

Waifu
2018-05-15, 09:58 PM
I'll admit I haven't thought of trying to engage in RP with him. The only time anyone actually tried that was back in our 5e campaign where we pranked him (long story short, he ended up drunk, in only his underclothes, and at the bottom of a ship.) I'll see what I can do RP wise-it's not like his character is totally antisocial; he just rarely gives us the opportunity to interact with him in an RP sort of fashion.
I will also see if I can take a look at his character sheet, just to make sure he didn't take something like spellhoarding.

Darrin
2018-05-16, 07:59 AM
I would just like to know if I really do have a right to be as annoyed as I am concerning this, and maybe what I should try to do about this-if I should do something about this.

I am tempted to say that no, you do not have a right to be annoyed. You created a character concept that is very, very good at certain things. Be happy with that. Your job is to be the best at what you want to be. There will always be someone else out there with better numbers. There is no "competition" among the group to be the best at a particular role. "Be the best at doing damage", "Be the best at Armor Class", "Be the best at disarming traps", etc.: there should not be a competition among your group to be the best at a certain role, that somehow you all pick a particular "Best at {X}" and you all carefully stay away from stepping on each other's toes so that particular role is sacrosanct for your particular character.

However, that sounds a lot like I'm telling you that you're engaging in WrongFun. And it's presumptuous and elitist for me to tell you how you should be playing your game.

My advice: There are two problems here, one is IC (In Character) and the other is OOC (Out Of Character).

IC Problem: Your character has devoted his entire life to studying everything he can about magic, and takes great pride in the depth and breadth of his magical knowledge. He believes he is the absolute best in the world in this particular subject. He has now encountered someone else who appears to have a wider and deeper understanding of magic, and may, perish the thought, be *better* than him at knowing things about magic... and even more galling, may have gotten that way not through hard work and decades of dedicated study, but through just natural talent and innate understanding. How exactly should he respond to this? Should he be jealous, and belittle this presumptuous braggart so that he can prove that his own magical knowledge earned through hard work is clearly superior? Or should he swallow his pride and accept this superior intellect as a respected colleague and mentor? Is there some other way he can increase his knowledge skills, perhaps a sidequest to obtain a legendary tome or find a long-lost library of ancient knowledge that he could use to increase the depth of his knowledge? There's some interesting RP opportunities here!

OOC Problem: It sounds like you have a personal problem with this particular player, and this contest over whoever is "Best at {X}" is symptomatic of your resentment and distaste for his playing style or his tendency to create minmax power-PCs with no backstory. If this player's behavior is causing problems with the rest of the group, then discussing this openly as a group in a OOC setting is a good way to come up with solutions and find some common ground to make sure everyone is having a positive gaming experience. If it's just a personal problem between you and this particular player, then a one-on-one OOC discussion between the two of you, or with the GM as a go-between/moderator, is a good way to find common ground and come up with solutions. You cannot fix OOC problems IC.

And on the gripping hand... Shape Soulmeld: Mage's Spectacles (Magic of Incarnum) or Elder Spirit (Dragon Magic) can kick up your Spellcraft, UMD, and Knowledge (Arcana) checks by +4, or even more with Bonus Essentia.

Waifu
2018-05-16, 08:54 AM
Concerning the OOC bit, other players have had problems with this guy-just for different reasons. While he can be a rather common annoyance in the group, none of us feel like we should kick him out; it's not like he's totally ruining the game, after all. We don't really know how to approach him on it, outside of the arguments that ensue immediately after the problem arises. We've thought about directly confronting him on it, but we all also agree that if we handle it wrong we could permanently lose another member in our already small club.
Sorry if that got a little off-topic. Next time we meet I will see if I can get some light RP going-I'm surprised by how many good suggestions you guys gave me for starting some! I feel I should apologize for being a little immature about this little problem and, seriously, thank you all for the help.