Worst punishment a Druid can possibly inflict.

[heavyfuel]

As a 13th level Evil Druid, what is the worst fate I can possibly subject a creature to?

Best answer for the last NPC was Falontani's. Lower their Int so I can make them my personal pet

However, now I must step up my game. There's a new threat: another, even higher level, Cleric. Turns out the guy I had captured was only one of the clerics that screwed my character before, and I want to get to his boss.


Second best is casting Contagion or Poison to lower their Fort and then casting Contagion over and over again to drop their ability scores to the ground and leaving them to be tortured remotely while they wear a Ring of Sustenance.

Any tips on making them not die due to Constitution Damage?

I was thinking Baleful Polymorph, but the fact that the creature might forget about its previous life in a day makes it less appealing.

Love's Pain is ok, I guess. I'm sure we can do better.

Transmute Flesh to Salt is also on the list, but making them into a mindless statue is not much fun. It does allow for some safe storage until better spell levels become available.


Unlike last time, I actually have time so that I may be able to invest a feat or purchase an expensive magical item (unfortunately, spells not on the Druid list are pretty much out of consideration, since no one has decent UMD). If I reeeeeally like the idea I might even multiclass, even though I don't that's gonna help much.

So let's go at it. How can be even more cruel?!

[Vizzerdrix]

I remember seeing a 1st level spell that turned someone into a fish for a short time. Shame if no one put the target into some water...

[heavyfuel]

I remember seeing a 1st level spell that turned someone into a fish for a short time. Shame if no one put the target into some water...

Aquatic Escape maybe? But it's a personal spell. Also, making them suffocate would be too quick. I want something a lot more long lasting.

[JyP]

As a 9th level Evil Druid, what is the worst fate I can possibly subject a creature to?
for a human, elf or dwarf adventurer - kill it and cast reincarnate. By default there are good chances to obtain a kobold, goblin, orc or troglodyte... ie a monster.

[Vizzerdrix]

Aquatic Escape maybe? But it's a personal spell. Also, making them suffocate would be too quick. I want something a lot more long lasting.

Hmm... then as a potion? Oooh! One of several potions. Only one isn't gonna mess with the user. They have to grab and drink one or allow something bad to happen to another person. Russian rullette style.

As for it being too quick, you can hold them by the tail and dip them in water. Unclean water to make it harder to breathe.

[heavyfuel]

for a human, elf or dwarf adventurer - kill it and cast reincarnate. By default there are good chances to obtain a kobold, goblin, orc or troglodyte... ie a monster.

I thought of that, but Reincarnate - like other resurrection spells - requires a willing soul. And I don't think his soul will be very willing.


Hmm... then as a potion? Oooh! One of several potions. Only one isn't gonna mess with the user. They have to grab and drink one or allow something bad to happen to another person. Russian rullette style.

As for it being too quick, you can hold them by the tail and dip them in water. Unclean water to make it harder to breathe.

I don't think you're grasping just how long lasting I want this to be. :smallamused:

[TalonOfAnathrax]

Get a scroll of Plane Shift and send them to hell.

[Fouredged Sword]

Disease. Lower their fort save to near zero and infect them with diseases that harm all their stats. Keep casting restoration to keep them alive.

Str 0, dex 0, con 4, int 4-9, wis 4-9, cha 4-9.

Put them in a cage with a ring of Sustinance on their finger.

Teach rats to nibble their toes off again and again.

Let them suffer until their pain stops amusing you.

[heavyfuel]

Get a scroll of Plane Shift and send them to hell.

Not having Plane Shift on my list complicates this. I don't have UMD, and the party Rogue might not be willing to cooperate. Also, they could escape whatever plane I send them to with their own Plane Shift cast. If the plane causes death, it kind of defeats the purpose of the spell in the first place.

Finally, this guy is pretty powerful, and Demons/Devils might be wiling to strike a bargain with him, and so I don't trust them.

[heavyfuel]

Disease. Lower their fort save to near zero and infect them with diseases that harm all their stats. Keep casting restoration to keep them alive.

Str 0, dex 0, con 4, int 4-9, wis 4-9, cha 4-9.

Put them in a cage with a ring of Sustinance on their finger.

Teach rats to nibble their toes off again and again.

Now that's more like it! I might even Awake the rat/rats just so I can give it/them more specific instructions.


Let them suffer until their pain stops amusing you.

I wonder what I can do when this happens

[Vizzerdrix]

I don't think you're grasping just how long lasting I want this to be. :smallamused:

Oooooh. Okay. Then make it a resetting trap. In a tiny fish tank with a leak in it. And toss in their loved ones. Use glasssteel for most of it, but an adamantine mesh on top. The tourture is having to keep putting in water every few hours or letting their loved ones suffer.

[GrayDeath]

for a human, elf or dwarf adventurer - kill it and cast reincarnate. By default there are good chances to obtain a kobold, goblin, orc or troglodyte... ie a monster.

That. Do it a few time to make sure.


I thought of that, but Reincarnate - like other resurrection spells - requires a willing soul. And I don't think his soul will be very willing.



Willing to be reinarnated, yes. But since the target, unlike with the raise dead line, does not know who is reincarnating them, at the very least the first time will work.

And if you make sure you are not th one who actually kills the target, ergo some misdirection, you might rub in the salt after the nth reincarnation, the targetted now being a opposite Sex Goblin or somesuch, that it was you all along, laugh and leave. ;)

[Nifft]

It's too bad Arboreal Transformation isn't a Druid spell.

It makes a nasty punishment.

[heavyfuel]

Oooooh. Okay. Then make it a resetting trap. In a tiny fish tank with a leak in it. And toss in their loved ones. Use glasssteel for most of it, but an adamantine mesh on top. The tourture is having to keep putting in water every few hours or letting their loved ones suffer.

Interesting take on resetting traps. Any idea on how to find their loved ones?


Willing to be reinarnated, yes. But since the target, unlike with the raise dead line, does not know who is reincarnating them, at the very least the first time will work.

I'm not willing to bet my only shot at revenge on them/their soul not figuring out my plan.

[Falontani]

rot their brain with intelligence damage. One of the biggest things that humans fear is losing their minds. If you drain their cha to 0 then they lose all sense of self, and thus dont care. Drain their wis to 0 and they are 100% insane, and don't care. However dropping their intelligence. Slowly. one point at a time. Then using Handle Animal on them once their intelligence is 1-2 (rules for this can be found in the A&EG) to train them tricks, and make them into a pet. If you are a half orc and have bully animal then even better. If they are a sorcerer then you can train them to use their magic on your behalf. The training never goes away (by RAW). You can then raise their intelligence back up to what it is supposed to be when they can't defend themselves, so that they can remember, and comprehend what you have made them do. Eat their own feces? Yup. Bred him. Yup. Once they realize it the psychological torture is complete. Now use torture rules (BVD). Make them tell you everything they know. Everything. Make them tell your every single aspect of their life's history. What they don't remember, force them to live through again. Make them remember. Hypnotism works well for this. I know one of the posters here has a guide on how to turn someone into a "good" member of society again, but in the same vein you can use this to make one relive their past deeds once they are good. Make them regret. Every. Thing. They. Have. Ever. Done. And when your done with the torture, get them addicted to drugs. Not one or two. All the drugs. Once they are good and addicted drain their will and fortitude saves away. And keep them from the drugs. Specifically the ones whose Withdrawal Symptoms won't kill him. Use measured doses of viper venom. Read what it does to someone's blood IRL. Now imagine the pain that actually causes. By this point you should have had him as your "pet" for several months and longer, you know everything that makes this person tick, everything that drives them, everything that they know, and you can slowly. Take it all away. Love's Pain. Use it at this point to make them feel as though there is absolutely nothing left. Only when this guy is begging for death will you contemplate letting him die. You will probably turn him into a pet again. Eventually it will be time to let him go, except you wont let him. You will inflict him with Vampirism. He will remember who he is. He will still be the person that he was before. But now he craves blood. Which you won't let him have for days, weeks at a time. He won't ever starve to death. He will slowly become feral. (rules in Libris Mortis) So very slowly he will lose himself. Become a beast. At this point you raise one of his loved ones from the dead. You will convince his loved on that they have been brought back to bring peace to their loved one. You will reunite this feral vampire with his loved one, his most treasured person. And he will rip them apart. He will drain them of all blood. And then the savageness will go away, and they will realize what they have done. They will realize that they have killed their loved one who was brought back from death just to help him. And what's worse. Their loved one will turn into a Vampire Spawn. With full memories. Under his complete control. However you will then draw this vampire spawn outside. Tie them down. And in the daytime let the sun sear at their skin. But you won't let the sunlight destroy their loved one. You will give them reprieve, just long enough to recover, before searing it away again. You will torture their loved one. Weeks go by of them just constantly hearing their loved one get tortured. They go feral again. You bring back another of their kin, and let them go through it all again. Only when they have gotten to the point that they don't care anymore. Then you will be a high enough level to trap their soul. You will put their soul in a small gem. And you will make a deal with a devil. You will sell this devil a soul of a truly broken individual, on the condition that he remain tortured for eternity.

[heavyfuel]

snip

That... was beautiful.

I'm reading my copy of A&EG and studying how to Handle Animal him.

Summoning a Yellow Musk Creeper with SNA IV and using Speak with Plants to command it to not fully drain his Int is a great start.

I don't think my DM will let him be commanded with Handle Animal after I've raised his Int score beyond 3, but still. Making this guy my personal pet with terrible ability scores so that he can never be a threat is now my favorite answer.

Thank you for this.

[Venger]

(five star post)
I can't possibly equal this with my suggestion.

May I suggest throwing in some paragraph breaks to make this easier to read? I scrolled past it initially and fear most others will do the same.


As a 9th level Evil Druid, what is the worst fate I can possibly subject a creature to?

Best answer so far is casting Contagion or Poison to lower their Fort and then casting Contagion over and over again to drop their ability scores to the ground and leaving them to be tortured remotely while they wear a Ring of Sustenance.

Any tips on making them not die due to Constitution Damage?

I was thinking Baleful Polymorph, but the fact that the creature might forget about its previous life in a day makes it less appealing.

Love's Pain is ok, I guess. I'm sure we can do better.

Transmute Flesh to Salt is also on the list, but making them into a mindless statue is not much fun. It does allow for some safe storage until better spell levels become available.

I also have about 5000 GP I can spend at this moment, so we'll have to make due with a not huge quantity of money. Contracting spellcasters to cast spells is unfortunately out of question, but buying scrolls/potions/whatever is not. I would like to not have to spend every single coin, though.

I was going to say, assuming you're playing in faerun or some other similarly terrible setting where the things it brings to bear are meaningful, "cast anathema" and rest on my laurels, possibly after pointing out that it's one of the few enchantment spells that aren't mind-affecting, so works on an undead, mind-blanked or similar target and basically ruins their whole life and damns them for eternity


That... was beautiful.

I'm reading my copy of A&EG and studying how to Handle Animal him.

Summoning a Yellow Musk Creeper with SNA IV and using Speak with Plants to command it to not fully drain his Int is a great start.

I don't think my DM will let him be commanded with Handle Animal after I've raised his Int score beyond 3, but still. Making this guy my personal pet with terrible ability scores so that he can never be a threat is now my favorite answer.

Thank you for this.
the cheapest (in terms of invested resources) way is to zap him with mind control of your choice and use the training intelligent creatures rule on page 72. if your gm won't allow that and forces you to waste a feat and you feel it's worth it, you can take (such and such type) trainer on page 73 with whatever your target is, zap their int down, and train them more or less normally

[heavyfuel]

OK. I need some way to drain his Intelligence.

I can Damage it with Yellow Musk Creeper - which is ok for my purposes now - but I need something that I won't need to refresh every day.

Any ideas?


I was going to say, assuming you're playing in faerun or some other similarly terrible setting where the things it brings to bear are meaningful, "cast anathema" and rest on my laurels, possibly after pointing out that it's one of the few enchantment spells that aren't mind-affecting, so works on an undead, mind-blanked or similar target and basically ruins their whole life and damns them for eternity


the cheapest (in terms of invested resources) way is to zap him with mind control of your choice and use the training intelligent creatures rule on page 72. if your gm won't allow that and forces you to waste a feat and you feel it's worth it, you can take (such and such type) trainer on page 73 with whatever your target is, zap their int down, and train them more or less normally

Unfortunately I won't have access to Anathema for 8 more levels. I could use a scroll, but he's of a different faith than I am.

The DM let me train him without the feat, so we're set on that end.

[Mehangel]

My personal favorite punishment that a druid can bestow is a casting of Jungle's Rapture (Spell Compendium, pg 128). It slowly drains the creature's Dexterity, Permanently turning the target into a normal plant when the creature's Dex reaches 0.

[heavyfuel]

My personal favorite punishment that a druid can bestow is a casting of Jungle's Rapture (Spell Compendium, pg 128). It slowly drains the creature's Dexterity, Permanently turning the target into a normal plant when the creature's Dex reaches 0.

I fully intend to use it plus Blood Snow to drain his Dex and Con (not in that order).

Now I need to find ways to drain his other stats.

[Falontani]

Iirc there is a druid spell in frostburn, mind frost? Something like that

[ATHATH]

I was going to say, assuming you're playing in faerun or some other similarly terrible setting where the things it brings to bear are meaningful, "cast anathema" and rest on my laurels, possibly after pointing out that it's one of the few enchantment spells that aren't mind-affecting, so works on an undead, mind-blanked or similar target and basically ruins their whole life and damns them for eternity
I thought that there was a rule somewhere that stated that all Enchantment spells counted as [Mind-Affecting], even if they aren't explicitly labelled as such.

[heavyfuel]

Iirc there is a druid spell in frostburn, mind frost? Something like that

I found one in SC called Memory Rot. It will do nicely.

[Venger]

OK. I need some way to drain his Intelligence.

I can Damage it with Yellow Musk Creeper - which is ok for my purposes now - but I need something that I won't need to refresh every day.

Any ideas?



Unfortunately I won't have access to Anathema for 8 more levels. I could use a scroll, but he's of a different faith than I am.

The DM let me train him without the feat, so we're set on that end.
What's your build? if you can fit in 2 levels of momf, phthisic's mind feed turns into drain once you get them to 0. It looks like you found the usable spells on the druid list if scrolls are out.

If he's of a different faith, then convert. To change others, you must first change yourself.



Iirc there is a druid spell in frostburn, mind frost? Something like that
mindfrost only deals int damage (and some lackluster cold damage), not int drain

I thought that there was a rule somewhere that stated that all Enchantment spells counted as [Mind-Affecting], even if they aren't explicitly labelled as such.
Nope.

[Nifft]

I thought that there was a rule somewhere that stated that all Enchantment spells counted as [Mind-Affecting], even if they aren't explicitly labelled as such.

Sadly this is correct. Citation: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#enchantment



All enchantments are mind-affecting spells. Two types of enchantment spells grant you influence over a subject creature.

[heavyfuel]

Is there a way to drain a creature's Con while being absolutely sure they won't die?

I want to get his Con to 2 or 3, but I really don't want to kill him.

[Nifft]

Is there a way to drain a creature's Con while being absolutely sure they won't die?

I want to get his Con to 2 or 3, but I really don't want to kill him.

Bestow Curse to reduce Con by -6, but not below 1.

Not on the Druid list but you presumably have friends.

[heavyfuel]

Bestow Curse to reduce Con by -6, but not below 1.

Not on the Druid list but you presumably have friends.

None who can cast it.

I do happen to have a Bestow Curse scroll on me which the Rogue can use, but a Will DC 14 might as well be an auto pass for this guy, even if we remove all his equipment.

Unless, of course, I find a way to damage/drain his Wisdom beforehand

[Falontani]

None who can cast it.

I do happen to have a Bestow Curse scroll on me which the Rogue can use, but a Will DC 14 might as well be an auto pass for this guy, even if we remove all his equipment.

Unless, of course, I find a way to damage/drain his Wisdom beforehand

or force him to use it on himself

[heavyfuel]

I thought of having him do that and also use Summon Undead IV so an Allip could drain his Wisdom.

Not sure how I can accomplish it without Dominate Person or similar ability though.

[Falontani]

I mean. Threaten him with lover's pain? Let him roll a spellcraft check?

[SirNibbles]

Use Domain Druid (Unearthed Arcana) to gain access to domains, pick up a PrC that grants a domain of your choice, take Pain (Book of Vile Darkness) and cast Eternity of Torture.

[heavyfuel]

I mean. Threaten him with lover's pain? Let him roll a spellcraft check?

Interesting. I'll convince the bard to do it.

What do you mean about spellcraft checks?


Use Domain Druid (Unearthed Arcana) to gain access to domains, pick up a PrC that grants a domain of your choice, take Pain (Book of Vile Darkness) and cast Eternity of Torture.

This no longer an option since it's an already built character though.

[Falontani]

Let him roll a spellcraft check on Love's Pain so he knows what it does, and knows your not bluffing.

[Telonius]

"The worst punishment I can possibly inflict" has very little to do with your own class abilities. It has much more to do with the target of the punishment. What does he care about most in the world? What does he fear most? What disgusts him most? Otherwise you're just inflicting pain. Yeah, it hurts. But with where I think you're going, you really want to break him.

Love's Pain is a decently good shorthand way of doing that, but in some extreme cases it might not do what you want.

A particularly nasty demon lord in a game of mine had determined the precise moment his foe would reach his maximum age, and cast Eternity of Torture the instant before it happened.

[ShurikVch]

Rather obscure 4th-level spell Cage of a Kind permanently locks lycanthropes in their animal form
So, afflict somebody with a mole (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_(animal)) lycanthropy, hit him with Cage of a Kind - and he(/she?) will permanently transformed into tiny blind subterranean critter
It's worse than the Baleful Polymorph, because they will keep their original mind
It's even worse than the forced Dire Reincarnation - because the Dire Rat is still much better than a Mole

[Venger]

Rather obscure 4th-level spell Cage of a Kind permanently locks lycanthropes in their animal form
So, afflict somebody with a mole (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_(animal)) lycanthropy, hit him with Cage of a Kind - and he(/she?) will permanently transformed into tiny blind subterranean critter
It's worse than the Baleful Polymorph, because they will keep their original mind
It's even worse than the forced Dire Reincarnation - because the Dire Rat is still much better than a Mole

Never heard of that spell. Where's it from? Where is dire reincarnation from?

[ShurikVch]

Never heard of that spell. Where's it from? Where is dire reincarnation from?The Cage of a Kind (another name - Bind Loup-Garou) is from the Call of Cthulhu d20, in the Chapter 7: Magic, and official D&D adaptation - in Appendix (Call of Cthulhu d20 was published by the Wizards of the Coast, so it's truly official)

Dire Reincarnation - from the web enhancement for Dungeon #100 (there (https://paizo.com/dungeonissues/100/Dungeon100Enhancement.pdf))

[heavyfuel]

So I went with Falontani's brilliant plan and it worked as well as any one could expect it (which is to say, it worked fabulously)

However, now I must step up my game. There's a new threat: another, even higher level, Cleric. Turns out the guy I had captured was only one of the clerics that screwed my character before, and I want to get to his boss.

Assuming I do get to him, and assuming he does live through the combat, how should I handle him? All ideas are still on the table.

Let's assume we're now at lv 13, and 7th level spells are game. How can we break him in an even more cruel manner?

[Crake]

Hmm... then as a potion? Oooh! One of several potions. Only one isn't gonna mess with the user. They have to grab and drink one or allow something bad to happen to another person. Russian rullette style.

As for it being too quick, you can hold them by the tail and dip them in water. Unclean water to make it harder to breathe.

Personal spells can't be made into potions.