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demonslayerelf
2018-05-17, 12:23 PM
Allo! So, if you're like me, you think 5e monsters suck. And you would be right.
I think two groups were hit particularly hard; Outsiders, and Dragons. I'm a scatterbrain, and I'm doing like 10 things at the same time, but these are both on my list.

This is about dragons.

This is a black dragon. (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/By7xW7N8f)

This is a blue dragon. (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HyWbe-7E8M)

This is a brown dragon. (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/SyhktwIWX)

This is a gray dragon. (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/S1ZRWtD8-X)

This is a ton of ways to make dragons weird.(Also lair actions.) (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/S1gMx6Idm)

(And I forgot to put these here...)

Conditions (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/rJQjfCCikX)and Senses (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/SyTNMicbz)that show up, and will show up in the future :P

If you've seen what I do to animals, you'll recognize my style in there. That is, the style of "Give them as many options as they need". DM's, rejoice! Players, cry yourselves to sleep! For no more are the days of dragons using the same 4 attacks with negligible damage and sometimes surviving long enough to use their breath weapon twice. This is a return to power for the scalykind of the game's title... And long may they reign.

Note on CR/Hit Dice:
I don't use CR. It's stupid, and these beasts are too complex to be rated using it. Too many variables to account for, and whatnot. If something says "Creature CR", it's these dragon's hit dice. The dragons are about equal in strength to a party of 4-5 characters of the same level/hit dice. A wyrmling is about equal to a 5th level party, basically.

My Style:
I hate to see creatures of legend stripped of all their nice things. The dragons of other editions weren't the greatest, but at least it seemed like they gave a ****. 5e doesn't, obviously. I do. So in my traditional methodology, I've gone through and given them as many pointy things and magical breaths I could think of. DM's will have all the options in the universe at their fingertips. It makes them a little harder to run, certainly, but dragons are the definition of a set-piece encounter. The ultimate. It should totally be fine.

Feedback is always appreciated.

StickFan291
2018-05-18, 02:12 PM
Thanks for posting this. I completely agree on some of the 5e monsters being stripped of too many things. I appreciate the simplistic nature that most monsters provide, but something like a Pit Fiend or a Dragon needs more than just 3 or so abilities. The flavor you included is great.

I've got a group getting close to the end of a lengthy campaign (levels 15+). Mind if I use some of these as optional bosses?

demonslayerelf
2018-05-18, 02:42 PM
Thanks for posting this. I completely agree on some of the 5e monsters being stripped of too many things. I appreciate the simplistic nature that most monsters provide, but something like a Pit Fiend or a Dragon needs more than just 3 or so abilities. The flavor you included is great.

I've got a group getting close to the end of a lengthy campaign (levels 15+). Mind if I use some of these as optional bosses?

Hell yes you can use them as optional bosses, man. These were built as boss battles to reeeeaaaally mess up the players, though, so be careful not to throw something WAY TOO DANGEROUS for them. Like, it's 15th level, so I assume you'll use the Adult. That's gonna nullify or halve 4 attacks every round, then pump out 130-ish damage on a round where it has nothing special to work with. So... Be careful, but hell yes, at the same time.

demonslayerelf
2018-06-04, 02:50 AM
I added in the blue dragon. I also don't like plain old bumps, so I'm gonna go on just a little tangent about 5e dragons, and why I'm doing this. Starting with;

They are feeble. From Wyrmlings to Ancients, the only thing a dragon has to stave off death is their hit point total being massive. They will take the same damage from a guard's spear as a random thug would. If a commoner punched a dragon, it would deal damage, whereas if a 20th level barbarian with a plain great axe critically struck and rolled maximum damage against a Flesh Golem, it would do absolutely nothing.

They are relatively weak or pathetic hitters. Breath weapons aside, a dragon can deal exactly 0 damage to lycanthropes, golems, a lot of undead, a lot of fiends, and more, and then do half damage against a way more extensive list.

Point is, 5e goes for the "Overgrown Lizard" side of dragons moreso than any other edition(I think... 1st and 2nd are a little spotty in my mind, but I think they were more legendary then.) And while there's room for that in many, many, MANY creatures, a dragon is a best of legend, not just a dinosaur with fire breath. That's why I'm making dragon stat blocks that are 1000 pages long, basically. To overcompensate the lackluster-ness of 5e standard.

TheForgottenMyt
2018-08-27, 04:11 AM
I seem to be having a problem with the claw page, only the front and back left claws are visible in the pdf.

Yddisac
2018-08-27, 03:21 PM
I share your frustrations with the lack of complexity on particularly younger dragons. Since my table never gets higher than level 12, I've never gotten to use any of the legendary actions or frightful presence that make dragons such a force to be reckoned with. That said, I can't say I'd ever use these when I could the dragons in the monster manual. I'll look at the black dragon wyrmling as an example; it's the least complex of the lot.

By your own assessment, the wyrmling is CR 5 (i.e., it's "about equal to a 5th level party," which is all CR means [MM 9]). But 17 AC and 38 HP don't go very far against a party of level 5 characters. I've included some simple math below, but basically, this wyrmling would probably go down in a round or two to a party fighting it on fair terms. Only its Acidic Burst keeps it alive in a melee encounter.
Therefore, tactically, this wyrmling is no bruiser. It's happiest flying 60' or so above the party in the open air. It can dive 30', hit the ranged attacker or spellcaster that's giving it the most trouble with its Acid Blast, and then leave, waiting to charge up its blast again and healing off excess damage. Maybe, if it thinks it can finish someone off before its Acid Blast recharges, it can dive the full 60', bite the target with a Power Aura- and Light-boosted Bite, use its Acidic Burst to ignore up to two melee attackers, and then take to the air again at the nearest opportunity. But it might not even bother diving if the party doesn't have a way to heal itself. Between its recharging breath weapon and its regeneration, it benefits tremendously from not fighting. Players seeking to defeat this wyrmling would want to bring magic arrows and a tank with the Sentinel feat.

Longevity
Math is below, but basically, this thing either goes down all at once or not at all. It's frail in terms of HP, but is immune to nearly all damage not dealt by a magic arrow. Any fight against this thing is going to be anticlimactic and unsatisfying: either it'll go down too quickly to be interesting, or it'll be impossible to harm. Underlevelled parties have no chance, while overlevelled parties will make quick work of it.
I made a quick fighter to test this with, a level 5 human Champion with 18 STR, the Great Weapon Fighting style, and a maul that deals magical bludgeoning damage but has no other effects. Our fighter friend deals about 12 damage per hit, give or take, with a 55% chance to hit and two attacks per turn. Their DPR ends up being roughly 13.5 - enough to defeat the dragon in 3 rounds. A party of four such fighters could take the dragon down in one turn. If they're clever and get advantage on their attacks, perhaps through flanking, perhaps through creativity, their hit rate jumps to about 80%, increasing their DPR to almost 20 - over half the dragon's max HP! And none of this is factoring in the champions' Action Surge features. A champion with advantage on their attacks, or even a moderately lucky champion without it, could slay the dragon in a single turn. (In addition, all of that math ignored various feature that would help the players even more, like critical hits and Battle Master manoeuvres.)
Now, one might argue that I'm being overly generous in giving our Champion a magical maul. The wyrmling has resistance to nonmagical damage, after all, that might improve its longevity. There's a problem there, however: the Thick Scales feature. The wyrmling takes no damage at all from any non-psychic attack that deals 7 or less damage. With a magical maul, the champion's chance of dealing the requisite 8 damage in a single blow to hurt it are 99%. Without it? The champion only has a 5% chance to deal 8 damage in one hit. Other classes, like the Rogue and Paladin, have mildly better chances of reaching the damage requisites, but a party still isn't likely to stick around for a fight against an enemy they can barely scratch. They'll either run or die without a fight.
After that, the only thing keeping the wyrmling alive is its Acidic Burst reaction. The Regeneration doesn't help, since the wyrmling is immune to the kinds of hits that the Regeneration would heal off anyway. Acidic Burst, on the other hand, halves incoming damage without fail. And when incoming damage is halved, it's almost certainly going to fall below 7 damage and thus get negated entirely. So Acidic Burst lets it shrug off two attacks per round completely.

Actions
For all its options, the wyrmling actually has a rather poor action economy. It gets to choose an aura, then either bite or use a breath weapon. Its reactions will likely be reserved for Acidic Bursts, so it won't use opportunity attacks.

Draconic Aura: Too many options here. Acid and Power are much too similar. Fortitude does not play well with Thick Scales. Fear is better designed than, but redundant with, Roar. Resistance is hardly necessary, since the dragon already has extremely high saves in everything that matters.
Draconic Instinct: Not very 5e-like, but not terribly problematic by itself. It, Acidic Burst, and Thick Scales combine to make the wyrmling essentially immune to melee damage, but Thick Scales and Acidic Burst are the problems, not this.
Dragon's Sense: Oddly specific. I'm struggling to think of what narrative purpose this could serve.
Regeneration: I can't say I'm fond of this being here. In terms of longevity, it's redundant with Thick Scales. In terms of the players, it reduces the effectiveness of one of the very few strategies a player party could use to confront the wyrmling - i.e., raining magic arrows on it from a distance. Since there's no way to turn it off (unlike the vast majority of 5e creatures with regeneration, who lose said feature if they take damage of a certain type), it's just frustrating for the players. It also isn't very flavourful; I've never seen a mythological dragon that was very good at recovering from wounds. It seems to be there to make up for the dragon's abysmal HP count - but the solution to that is just to give the dragon more HP, not to pile an unflavourful passive on it.
Thick Scales: Given how many ways the wyrmling has to reduce damage dealt to it, it renders the wyrmling immune to everything but magic arrows. If you're uncomfortable with the narrative ability for players to raise an army of brave commoners to defeat the beast with mass tactics (and I'm never sure why people are uncomfortable with this narrative option, it's very compelling), why not just give it immunity to nonmagical weapons and get rid of this feature?
Bite: The dragon's only melee attack. Stacked with all the other features it has to power it up, it deals 2d8+d6+4 damage (roughly 16.5). This is actually quite weak compared to other CR 5 monsters; the Air Elemetal, for example, makes two attacks with a much higher attack bonus that deal 2d8+5 (~14) damage each.
Gore: Why would the wyrmling ever use this? It's worse than Bite in every way.
Roar: Compared to Frightening Presence, this ties the result to an extra die roll on the GM's part, adds the potential of some psychic damage (implying some kind of paranormal, mind-breaking fear effect), and has a horrific duration. All of these changes are for the worse. Having the dragon make a skill check to determine the DC of the initial save, you risk trivializing players' saving throws. If the dragon rolls a 25, even the brave fighter with 14 Wis and Resilient (Wisdom) has only a 5% chance to survive - barely better than the timid Rogue with 8 Wis. Likewise, if the dragon rolls a 6, even said timid Rogue would have to roll poorly to be intimidated. The psychic damage is neither flavourful nor a reliable addition to the dragon's damage per round. And the duration is just confusing — why not just make it last a minute? And how do you stop the PCs from getting caught in an endless loop of fear that's frustrating for everyone? Lastly, if a dragon actually wants to defeat its foes, why would it use an action doing this when it could attack? It's pretty easy to revise this to get rid of all those issues. You end up with the Frightening Presence feature straight from the Monster Manual. I'd just go with that and save yourself the trouble.
Dragon Breath: These do much, much more damage than the Bite. Acid Blast in particular has a good chance to knock out level 5 characters in one hit. I'm not sure why the dragon needs a line, a cone, and a single-target attack all delineated separately, though. To give the wyrmling a more distinct flavour and fighting style, I'd just pick one and stick with it - the cone for a brawler, a 30' line for a skirmisher, and cut the blast altogether. I don't see that a dragon whose breath can be either a line or a cone is any cooler or more interesting than one restricted to only breathing acid in a cone.
Light: Since there's no reason the dragon wouldn't use this, why not just make this part of Bite's normal damage?
Acidic Burst: Imagine a group of players that coordinated on a plan to bring the dragon down to the ground and strike it a sneak attack from the rogue's magic dagger. They hit! But before they roll damage, the GM makes a quick roll and says, "Sorry, you do nothing, and take 4 damage for the trouble." This feature seems designed to do nothing but frustrate players.


How Balanced is the Wyrmling?
The wyrmling, at least, is not too complex for CR evaluation. By the standards set out in the Dungeon Master's Guide, it's about CR 4, albeit with a rather weak offence. It's a tad weak, on the whole, for something confronting a party of level 5 characters.

What Might Improve?
A lot of the options you've provided seem to be compensating for weaknesses that you've built into the dragon. Because you're trying to make a CR 5 monster with 5 hit dice (why?), you've added a huge plethora of features to keep the dragon from ever taking damage, since 5 hit dice isn't nearly enough. Why not just give it more HP? Then you can cut Draconic Instinct and Acidic Burst and still have a monster that takes several rounds for a magic-weapon-equipped party to eliminate. It'd save the player worlds of frustration. Likewise, to compensate for the weak bite, the dragon gets glowing fangs and an aura (two not particularly draconic traits). Why not just give it a multiattack? A bite for d8+2 piercing and 2d8 acid, two claws for d8+2 each. That can at least compete with the air elemental's normal attack, and since the GM gets to decide how to distribute those attacks, it really does give the GM more options. If you really want to stop the army of commoners from taking out the dragon, just give it immunity to nonmagical weapons and have prospective dragon-slayers go on a quest for the appropriate weapons to slay the beast. Then combine the two fear effects into a DC 13 Frightful Presence, just like adult dragons from the Monster Manual have, and build Frightful Presence into the multiattack so it gets used every round. You end up having just as much ability to scare PCs, while also having safeguards built in to keep the players from getting locked in an endless loop of fear.

For all the features we've taken away, we still have a much more complex monster than the young dragons from the Monster Manual. To recap, we still have immunity to nonmagical weapons, a frightening presence, acid breath, considerable bulk, and a three-attack multiattack. And perhaps most crucially, this "simplified" monster plays exactly the same way as the wyrmling I described in the beginning: flying out of reach and raining down acid on its foes, then divebombing to finish off weakened targets. Only it doesn't have to be quite so worried about what happens when melee attackers get in range and it runs out of Acidic Bursts, since it now has the HP to take the odd hit that breaks through its high AC. So it has the option to wade into melee and mess up its opponents — and thanks to its multiattack, it can break up its attacks in melee however it chooses. Its high AC can even let it divebomb and fly back up, since it no longer has to fear opportunity attacks that use up precious Acidic Bursts - and, since it doesn't need to save its reaction for Acidic Bursts, it can even use opportunity attacks. Simplifying the wyrmling as such would actually give a GM more options on how to run the encounter.

A Brief Treatment on Other Forms
The other forms are similarly bloated. They all have the Acid Burst/Draconic Instincts/Thick Scales combination that sucks fun into a vortex of features entirely beyond the players' control, bonus actions for the sake of having bonus actions, and increasingly elaborate combinations of breath weapons and multiattacks that barely vary from each other. (And the punch attack is just hilarious - picking up one party member and holding them while punching another party member is the stuff of slapstick cartoons.) They smack of complexity for its own sake rather than actually adding useful new abilities that make combat more tactically interesting. (Things like acid trap stretch credibility for the sake of adding tactically uninteresting options.)

As for differentiating the creatures, the blue dragon is basically just the black dragon with a different coat of paint. With no lair actions or legendary actions, there's no reason to run it differently from a black dragon that I can find. It burrows instead of swimming, I guess, and is mildly more likely to KO a level 5 character in one hit with Acid Blast Ball Lightning. In the Monster Manual, lair actions and CR differentiate different dragon colours, making each one a distinct combat experience. Here, the blue dragon is (by your estimation) the same CR as the black dragon, with mostly the same features in different damage types.

Not even gonna try to parse the Great Wyrms. I never play at epic levels, so what good would my feedback be?

In Conclusion
While I share your concerns about 5e's dragons, particularly at the lower level, these dragons seem much worse than the ones in the Monster Manual due to a combination of redundant features, frustrating ability combos, and incredibly feeble HP at lower levels. I'd recommend taking a serious look at which features actually make the fight more interesting for players, and which are just there for the sake of putting more things on the monster's sheet. Simplifying these monsters to give them a unique identity and specific weaknesses would make them much more interesting and, I think, accomplish your design goals better.

Lalliman
2018-08-28, 04:48 AM
By your own assessment, the wyrmling is CR 5 (i.e., it's "about equal to a 5th level party," which is all CR means [MM 9]).
That's not what it means at all. A CR 5 creature is a pitiful encounter for a 5th level party. Two of them is more of an equal match. All CR really means is the minimum level at which characters can be reasonably expected to face the creature. The XP values are what you should actually look at to determine their power.

I do agree that these have too much complexity for the sake of complexity, which reduces usability for the DM and creates a lack of transparency for the players. That said, complexity is Demonslayerelf's preference, so I can't say it's wrong, just idiosyncratic.

Yddisac
2018-08-28, 08:10 AM
That's not what it means at all. A CR 5 creature is a pitiful encounter for a 5th level party. Two of them is more of an equal match. All CR really means is the minimum level at which characters can be reasonably expected to face the creature. The XP values are what you should actually look at to determine their power.

The full quote: "A monster's challenge rating tells you how great a threat the monster is. An appropriately equipped and well-rested party of four adventurers should be able to defeat a monster that has a challenge rating equal to its level without suffering any deaths" (MM 9; emphasis theirs). So yes, that is what CR means.

I'm also puzzled by your comment on XP values, since XP values correspond directly to challenge rating — all CR 2 creatures give 450 XP, all CR 8 creatures give 3900 XP, etc. CR and XP correlate one-to-one; they're virtually equivalent. If you mean that OP wants these to be very difficult encounters for a level 5 party, then yes, CR 5 would be too low by DMG standards, and CR 8 would be more appropriate. Either way, the Black Dragon Wyrmling presented here is closer to CR 4 by DMG standards; its damage output doesn't even measure up to CR 5 creatures, let alone CR 8 creatures like OP would probably want. (Its damage output, in fact, is more on the level of CR 3 creatures; only its proclivity for oneshotting low-DEX party members and immunity to melee damage make it more threatening than that.)


I do agree that these have too much complexity for the sake of complexity, which reduces usability for the DM and creates a lack of transparency for the players. That said, complexity is Demonslayerelf's preference, so I can't say it's wrong, just idiosyncratic.
I'm afraid I have to disagree here. To explain why, I'll cite the Gore option and Light bonus action. Both are traps for the GM that only serve to make their job harder. The Gore option is strictly worse than any other option the Wyrmling has; there's no reason to ever use it. Its presence gives the GM an option they have to discount every single round. The user experience would be better all around if the Gore option weren't there. As for the Light bonus action, it has the opposite problem. If the GM forgets to use it, they're reducing the Wyrmling's already low damage output even further (and since the dragon is best off flying around in open air, as I mentioned before, it doesn't have much business hiding). But they have to remember to use in order to get the Wyrmling's damage output up to where it should be. It's an extra step for a GM to remember. It makes the GM's life harder, seemingly just for the sake of giving the Wyrmling some kind of bonus action.

In all fields of design, simplicity is a virtue. Adding features that don't need to be there makes life harder for everyone using a designed object - be it a website, a poster, a book, or a table lamp. The same goes for monsters. Every bit of added complexity that doesn't help the folks at the table have fun just serves to use up the GM's time - time they could be using roleplaying. That isn't to say that complex fights are inherently problematic - as I said before, I agree with OP's assertion that dragons in the monster manual, particularly at the Young age, are too simple. (Adults have Lair Actions that make things much more interesting - now that's a bit of complexity these dragons could use; they'd be more fun than the Acid Zone action due to improved action economy and have a more mythical flair to boot.) But the complexity has to actually add something to the fight; if it doesn't, it's a detriment.

Lalliman
2018-08-28, 12:16 PM
The full quote: "A monster's challenge rating tells you how great a threat the monster is. An appropriately equipped and well-rested party of four adventurers should be able to defeat a monster that has a challenge rating equal to its level without suffering any deaths" (MM 9; emphasis theirs).
Exactly. "Without suffering any deaths." So not an equal match. A creature with a CR equal to the party's level is usually a medium encounter (easy at some levels, strangely), which means they can handle about six of those per day. You say it yourself in the next paragraph: OP wants a creature that is equal in power to a 5th level party, so he wants something closer to a CR 8.


I'm also puzzled by your comment on XP values, since XP values correspond directly to challenge rating — all CR 2 creatures give 450 XP, all CR 8 creatures give 3900 XP, etc. CR and XP correlate one-to-one; they're virtually equivalent.
XP corresponds to CR, but you don't use CR to determine the difficulty of an encounter. The guidelines for how much a character can take on in one battle and over the course of a day are expressed in XP. You also can't put CRs together to determine the power of a group, you do that with the XP value. The XP is what matters. CR just serves as a general estimate for convenience purposes.


I'm afraid I have to disagree here. To explain why, I'll cite the Gore option and Light bonus action. Both are traps for the GM that only serve to make their job harder. The Gore option is strictly worse than any other option the Wyrmling has; there's no reason to ever use it. Its presence gives the GM an option they have to discount every single round. The user experience would be better all around if the Gore option weren't there. As for the Light bonus action, it has the opposite problem. If the GM forgets to use it, they're reducing the Wyrmling's already low damage output even further (and since the dragon is best off flying around in open air, as I mentioned before, it doesn't have much business hiding). But they have to remember to use in order to get the Wyrmling's damage output up to where it should be. It's an extra step for a GM to remember. It makes the GM's life harder, seemingly just for the sake of giving the Wyrmling some kind of bonus action.

In all fields of design, simplicity is a virtue. Adding features that don't need to be there makes life harder for everyone using a designed object - be it a website, a poster, a book, or a table lamp. The same goes for monsters. Every bit of added complexity that doesn't help the folks at the table have fun just serves to use up the GM's time - time they could be using roleplaying. That isn't to say that complex fights are inherently problematic - as I said before, I agree with OP's assertion that dragons in the monster manual, particularly at the Young age, are too simple. (Adults have Lair Actions that make things much more interesting - now that's a bit of complexity these dragons could use; they'd be more fun than the Acid Zone action due to improved action economy and have a more mythical flair to boot.) But the complexity has to actually add something to the fight; if it doesn't, it's a detriment.
Oh I agree with all of that. That comment was frankly just a throwaway. I didn't want to seem like a jerk by responding to your lengthy post with only a mostly-irrelevant correction, nor did I want to antagonise the OP in a thread I have little to do with.

Yddisac
2018-08-28, 12:25 PM
Fair enough. Most of our differences seem to have been semantic :v

And for what it's worth @OP: I don't mean to come off as antagonistic, either. I agree with your central concern, and I think this project has potential, which is why I spent literally hours writing that essay about it. I know I was awfully critical, but I sincerely hope that my commentary helps you to improve this work so it plays better at your table (and perhaps mine, one day).

R.Shackleford
2018-08-28, 12:33 PM
This is a black dragon. (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/By7xW7N8f)

This is a blue dragon. (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HyWbe-7E8M)



https://media.giphy.com/media/akpRGgbfzm26A/giphy.gif

All you talk about making dragons awesome reminded me of this movie, as I recall... It wasn't great... But I love the premise at the very least XD

demonslayerelf
2018-09-11, 08:02 AM
@Yddisac- I do not have the time to go absolutely point by point, so I'm just gonna cover it somewhat randomly with the time I do have.

First- You make note of abilities which are there ONLY for the purpose of complexity or filling out a sheet. There are exactly 0 of these. Abilities(For instance, Gore or Dragon's Sense) are there only because of logic. A dragon has horns, they can hit with the horns. A dragon is a magical acid creature, they can sense acid. That's all. (Also, Gore can be useful in a few odd ways-Like if someone broke it's teeth or muzzled it, which seems to happen a lot in media, or it's fighting something immune to acid damage(Conveniently including certain other dragons)- but is more for the bigger dragons, yes.) This also applies to the different breath weapon shapes; Could a cone-blaster not purse it's lips to shoot a line? Could a line-blaster not swing it's head from side to side to make a cone? Could any of them not charge it, but only hit a single person? They can, and it serves to be logical and give more variety, not just to pad out a stat block(If I wanted to do that, I could absolutely do that with ACTUAL nothing abilities.)

Second- You make note of several redundant features, for instance Roar and their Fear Aura. But let me ask you; Is there anything to stop a dragon from intimidating people without their intimidating presence? Of course not. Just like any player(Or, in fact, any character period) can make an intimidation check to frighten their opponent, so too can the dragon. Roar is just that ability written out, and infused with the sort of "HOLY S*** A DRAGON" fear that has driven people insane(Hence the psychic damage). What's to stop your holy-****-scary barbarian from rolling low and not being scary? It's the same for every creature, including the dragon.

You also mention Thick Scales, Fortitude Aura, Regen(Quick point on that; You say to give dragons more health, but then say that this is bad, but all regen IS is giving more health without increasing the max), and nonmagical resistance being redundant, but no; They exist because the dragon needs to live. You say increasing health would work, but that's a band-aid to a brain tumor that turns dragon fights into slogs of "I hit the dragon. Then I do it again. And again. Tell me when he dies." Dragons are massively powerful, with stories of blades bouncing off their scales harmlessly, and only being slain by weapons blessed by magic or hitting the chink in their scales. In 5e, that's represented by an AC that means nothing by 10thish level and a billion hit points to cut through(And if you want to talk about dragon flavour here, how many stories have you heard where a dragon's scales were tissue paper, and it just kept taking blow after blow until it died?) Here, blades actually bounce off(Thick Scales and Fortitude), Magic is the way to slay a dragon(Resistance(And later immunity) to nonmagical damage), and those few hits that work are fleeting, telling you to press harder and force more risks to be taken(Regen).
It's mechanical representation of real legend. Good luck finding that in the base game.

Third- Mechanics that exist only to frustrate, like Acidic Burst. Sure, it's frustrating. Dragon fights should not be simple or easy, the players should absolutely feel weak and frustrated. Would you rather them be cake walks? Would you rather players be able to just hurt the dragon? It's a dragon, not some random wolf. Let me be clear; IT IS A LEGENDARY, MURDERING, MAIN-GAME-TITLE ****ING DRAGON. It should FEEL like it. It should feel like an ever-growing dread as you see your progress slowed, stopped, and undone slowly. There should not be the reassurance of; "Don't worry, there's nothing it can do about getting hit." Because you can accurately say that, right now, about every dragon of 5e.

Fourth- Dragon Breath being too much damage. Most of them are 22 average, where 5th level characters will have about 40(5d8+15 being 38, which is 16 con. Pretty close to average.) Only one is more than that, and it only hits one target.

(I have a bit more time, so I'm going to keep adding things to this via the power of editing)

Fifth- The problem with the baby dragon not being a bruiser, and the problem of the dragon's best tactic being "fly up and shoot down". I mean, yeah, but this is hardly a revolutionary argument. The tactic with dragons is NEVER to sit them out in the open and let them get smacked and stabbed to ****. Only idiots do that with any monster. It has a 60 foot fly speed, a breath weapon, and a 30 foot aura of fright and/or damage. The best strategy is OBVIOUSLY to fly around and shoot. That's true of every dragon, in every edition, regardless of age or physical capabilities. It's also true of everything that can fly period, assuming the players can't do the same. Implying that this is a problem is implying that flight in general is a problem(Which, to be fair, some people say is true. This isn't a debate about that, though, we're talking dragons.)

Sixth- There are no differences between Blue and Black wyrmlings. ...I'm just gonna link you something, and we'll see how much of a point that is after. Wyrmling 1 (https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Blue%20Dragon%20Wyrmling#h-Blue%20Dragon%20Wyrmling)Wyrmling 2 (https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Black%20Dragon%20Wyrmling#content)

Seventh- You make note of there being too many auras, or redundant auras, as well as being non-dragonly. To the first two points, that's simply wrong. Make note that the dragons can effect any number of people, not just themselves or the party. If the dragon has helpers(Which is built in to the bigger dragons, and is just logical for dragons in general, being how many dragon cults are in DnD worlds), the dragon wants them to do better. Have some magicky helpers, like a dragon priest? Maybe keep a Resistance Aura running so they don't lose concentration, or a Fortitude Aura so they live longer. How about bumping the damage of stabby helpers with a Power Aura? Maybe, for once, your followers aren't dropping like flies and aren't having too many problems; Burn the adventurers, or frighten them. There's nothing redundant about them, and there's good use for each and every one of them.

And as to them being undragonly- What's more dragonly than a Red Dragon whose very presence burns the screaming peasants into ash(I haven't made it yet, but Fire Aura)? What captures a dragon's majesty better than literally being empowered by seeing one(Power, Fortitude, Resistance)? Nothing, that's what. (Also, Dragon Shamans from 3e and Dragons from 4e had auras that worked real good)

Eighth- Perhaps the wyrmling isn't too complicated compared to the big ones, but it's still more than is accounted for by the standard CR maths. It has a low HP and AC, but it can invalidate two attacks per round, regenerates, and doesn't care at all about smaller attacks. That alone pushes it's defensive CR way higher than the normal maths will tell you. Further, while a single attack will deal round about 16 damage, it's gonna deal 2 more(Power Aura) or 2 to everybody(Acid Aura), and then 4-8 more from it's reactions, and then potentially even more from Psychic damage with it's Roar. Or, that aura could also be used to prevent more damage, effectively raising it's Defensive CR even higher.
On a round-to-round basis, the damage fluctuates from 1123 average(No Power or Acid Auras, no Light, and no reactions used) to a total of about 4254 average(Acid Aura hits 4 people, then two people suffer psychic damage from Roar, and both reaction saving throws succeed, dealing 4 each.)
All of that said, using the lowest estimates for the CR stuff, it still clocks in at CR 45; This is without considering it's reactions, thick scales, auras, breath weapons, or regen. If we account for as much as we can on a semi-optimal round with 4254 damage every round(Which is very possible), and we assume a fight will last for... We'll say 5 turns, effectively giving the wyrmling an extra 25 hit points, it's CR comes out to a solid 7(Actually still 7, though it occurred to me that using a defensive aura might cause a higher CR, if they were considered in the CR maths). That's still ignoring major abilities(For instance, invalidating 2 attacks per turn, inflicting fright, flying, etc), so 7 plus a bit(Well, perhaps a LOT) more? Totally good.
So, balance? Definitely on the more powerful side of things.

Nine- Nothing says dragons don't get lair actions. Lair actions don't go on the stat block, though, so they aren't there. My plan was to do that and a bunch of other random things as part of another page, which I would then add later. That project is gonna be released next though, so... Enjoy them when I finish up. :P 'Sall done, now. Dragon Magic, pages 2 and onward have lair actions.

Ten- I just remembered the note on Light and Gore. I talked about Gore's usage up above, but I never got to talk about Light. And the simple answer? It's so they can hide or provide light, as necessary. You'll also notice that Light is "Until the dragon chooses to remove the glow," not until the end of the turn. The DM uses it once and doesn't have to worry about it anymore, but if the dragon tries to hide, it can just turn it off and call it good, then pick it up the next round. It's also there for narrative awesomeness, though. You're hunting a black dragon through a dark cave or castle, it dashes into a small chamber, and you follow it in. All is dark. After a few turns of searching, the feeblest party member suddenly sees a drop of glowing green acid fall to the ground right in front of them, then the dragon jumps, biting and tearing into the character(Probably a wizard). If it was always like that, it wouldn't be able to hide. If it weren't available at all, then party members would just start taking damage, with no neat, alien-esque coolness to it. It could also be used as an indication of a dragon getting serious; In the beginning of a fight, a dragon is just toying with the party. After it starts actually getting cut up, though, it's mouth engulfs in fire/acid/whatever, and the real battle begins.

That was a longer paragraph than I thought it would be.

Eleven(I guess :P)- Did take some of that into consideration. Wyrmlings are gonna get a multiattack, I'm limiting how many times the Elemental Burst ability(Speaking of which, you should also realize that it's a charisma saving throw against the attack roll, and a lot of the time the players' attacks will be higher) can be used, and I'm changing Roar to just be a minute(It's easier that way, you're right :P)

Twelve(Last one, I swear)- It just occurred to me that this would all make a lot more sense if I actually explained my method; Why 5 Hit Dice? Why are a lot of abilities a little finicky? Why are there so many options? Because I made these things with the intention of them taking "Levels" in the "Dragon Class", not just gaining abilities as they got older. The "Class" looks a lot like a mix of the 3.0 Dragon Shaman and 3.5 Dragonfire Adept, though I haven't formally written it out, or anything.

demonslayerelf
2018-10-21, 11:12 AM
I've increased the dragon menagerie to include Brown and Gray dragons.

...You're wondering what those are? I don't blame you. Brown dragons, or Great Desert Dragons, are wingless acid-spitters. They live in deserts and love eating, and eating, and eating. Their horde is even disproportionately silverware, because of how much they like to eat. I wanna know what dragon-drugs Tiamat was on when she made these things.

Gray dragons are Fang dragons, and have a bit of a weird past. They used to be able to petrify people(Which I brought back, as well as a heavier connection to stone in general), but then lost that ability because... (Fill in the blank.) Tiamat was feeling sorry, though, so she gave them acid, too. The breath weapon... Probably not the drug(That's what she took when she made the brown dragons). In the down time, though, grays hit the gym and got as buff as Swolregard over there, becoming the most physically dangerous chromatic dragon. I dropped the acid(Ha) and gave them back the stone connection. I also let them keep their muscles, since they go together pretty nicely.


Why did I do these two? I'm going alphabetically. Green is next, followed by two more that nobody has ever heard of. How fun.



Oh yeah, I also added in a ton of things to make them more magical. That's the bottom link, there, it has magical options, some fiendish ties, and some lair actions. I messed with lair actions a lot, and there are way more options to choose from. My general philosophy is; If it makes sense for the dragon in question, then use the lair action. Because there are a lot, mostly magical, but quite a few mechanical ones as well. I also slightly changed the way they work, so that multiple can happen on the same turn, and it gets more useful as the party gets stronger.

Hope y'all enjoy.

Yddisac
2018-11-06, 12:31 PM
You asked me to rebut your rebuttal, so here's that.

Rather than going point by point, I think I'll just point to three philosophical issues that I think are undermining this project qua monster design.


They are relatively weak or pathetic hitters. Breath weapons aside, a dragon can deal exactly 0 damage to lycanthropes, golems, a lot of undead, a lot of fiends, and more, and then do half damage against a way more extensive list.

Just like any player(Or, in fact, any character period) can make an intimidation check to frighten their opponent, so too can the dragon. Roar is just that ability written out, and infused with the sort of "HOLY S*** A DRAGON" fear that has driven people insane(Hence the psychic damage). What's to stop your holy-****-scary barbarian from rolling low and not being scary? It's the same for every creature, including the dragon.

I made these things with the intention of them taking "Levels" in the "Dragon Class", not just gaining abilities as they got older. The "Class" looks a lot like a mix of the 3.0 Dragon Shaman and 3.5 Dragonfire Adept, though I haven't formally written it out, or anything.
#1: Monsters are not PCs, and the GM is not a player.
When is a dragon going to fight a flesh golem in turn-by-turn combat? They're both NPCs, controlled by the GM. I certainly wouldn't make the players sit there and watch me roll the dice as my dragon and flesh golem go head-to-head. And if I'm not rolling the dice, why would I care what the stat blocks say? I'll narrate the confrontation however I want and get on with it.
I'll get more into what monsters are in a bit, but for now I'd like to address what they aren't: the GM's PCs. The GM does not play the game. They're omnipotent. If they were playing, they'd never lose. That's why the GM doesn't need to bother with things like resource management or character progression. They can do whatever they want, whenever they want, by virtue of their station.
The GM creates a game for the players to play. Monsters are simply elements in that game (again, I'll get into this more later). Things like pitting monsters against each other, character progression for the monster, or resource management for the GM (cf. Acidic Burst) are all pointless in actual gameplay because the GM is not a player.
(for the record, yes, it is hypothetically possible for players fighting a powerful dragon to rustle up an army of flesh golems or lycanthropes or whatever to do it, but remember that the GM is still omnipotent. If the GM doesn't want the players to be able to command that army, the GM can simply make it so that the flesh golems, lycanthropes, etc. won't obey the players' commands, and that's that.)


They are relatively weak or pathetic hitters. Breath weapons aside, a dragon can deal exactly 0 damage to lycanthropes, golems, a lot of undead, a lot of fiends, and more, and then do half damage against a way more extensive list.

Just like any player(Or, in fact, any character period) can make an intimidation check to frighten their opponent, so too can the dragon. Roar is just that ability written out, and infused with the sort of "HOLY S*** A DRAGON" fear that has driven people insane(Hence the psychic damage). What's to stop your holy-****-scary barbarian from rolling low and not being scary? It's the same for every creature, including the dragon.

If the dragon has helpers(Which is built in to the bigger dragons, and is just logical for dragons in general, being how many dragon cults are in DnD worlds), the dragon wants them to do better. Have some magicky helpers, like a dragon priest? Maybe keep a Resistance Aura running so they don't lose concentration, or a Fortitude Aura so they live longer. How about bumping the damage of stabby helpers with a Power Aura?

You're hunting a black dragon through a dark cave or castle, it dashes into a small chamber, and you follow it in. All is dark. After a few turns of searching, the feeblest party member suddenly sees a drop of glowing green acid fall to the ground right in front of them, then the dragon jumps, biting and tearing into the character(Probably a wizard). If it was always like that, it wouldn't be able to hide. If it weren't available at all, then party members would just start taking damage, with no neat, alien-esque coolness to it. It could also be used as an indication of a dragon getting serious; In the beginning of a fight, a dragon is just toying with the party. After it starts actually getting cut up, though, it's mouth engulfs in fire/acid/whatever, and the real battle begins.


And as to them being undragonly- What's more dragonly than a Red Dragon whose very presence burns the screaming peasants into ash(I haven't made it yet, but Fire Aura)? What captures a dragon's majesty better than literally being empowered by seeing one(Power, Fortitude, Resistance)? Nothing, that's what.
#2: You're setting up dragons as Mary Sues.
So a dragon loses to a flesh golem: good. It had better not singlehandedly outclass the whole Monster Manual. You're attempting to create dragons that are simultaneously divinely inspiring and maddeningly hideous, that are impossible to miss yet as stealthy as a horror villain, that can buff allies, debuff enemies, oneshot players, fly, swim, burrow, and have no weaknesses to speak of. Never mind that you aren't getting there — that's a bad goal to strive for.
This is part of what I mean when I say these dragons lack identity, that they don't feel like dragons. Western dragons are a very specific thing: big lizards, occasionally winged, occasionally fire-breathing, usually magically protected. Most mythological dragons have even more specific identities than that: Beowulf's dragon is an embodiment of chthonic forces, less a monster than a force of nature; Fafnir is a greedy, stupid brute that drinks itself to death; St George's dragon was a tyrant that demanded sacrifice. Each had its weaknesses, and St George's dragon went down in one hit (maybe two). And they share a certain common identity. If one of them crept around à la Alien, or drove people mad with fear at the sight of it like a Lovecraftian creature, I'd be thoroughly confused.
A dragon that can do anything is bland and boring, for all the reasons a Mary Sue is bland and boring. It's also frustrating to fight. What can't dragons do? What can players do to defeat them? Because that's the real essence of a fight, what the players will do to overcome the obstacle in front of them. That goes double if our dragon friends are supposed to have minions — the minions would presumably be there to shore up the dragons' weaknesses, which is why the player would want to take them down in order to defeat the dragon. If a dragon can do everything and defeat anyone, what's the point of minions? (Not a hypothetical question: think of the dozens of bargain-bin animated films where the villain, after his minions fail to capture the hero, easily captures the hero himself. I saw one just yesterday.)
Mind you, these dragons are way too complex to support also having minions in the fight, especially if the minions have actions other than an 'attack,' but I digress.


Abilities(For instance, Gore or Dragon's Sense) are there only because of logic. A dragon has horns, they can hit with the horns. A dragon is a magical acid creature, they can sense acid. That's all. (Also, Gore can be useful in a few odd ways-Like if someone broke it's teeth or muzzled it, which seems to happen a lot in media, or it's fighting something immune to acid damage(Conveniently including certain other dragons)- but is more for the bigger dragons, yes.) This also applies to the different breath weapon shapes; Could a cone-blaster not purse it's lips to shoot a line? Could a line-blaster not swing it's head from side to side to make a cone? Could any of them not charge it, but only hit a single person? They can, and it serves to be logical and give more variety, not just to pad out a stat block(If I wanted to do that, I could absolutely do that with ACTUAL nothing abilities.)

You make note of there being too many auras, or redundant auras, as well as being non-dragonly. To the first two points, that's simply wrong. Make note that the dragons can effect any number of people, not just themselves or the party. If the dragon has helpers(Which is built in to the bigger dragons, and is just logical for dragons in general, being how many dragon cults are in DnD worlds), the dragon wants them to do better. Have some magicky helpers, like a dragon priest? Maybe keep a Resistance Aura running so they don't lose concentration, or a Fortitude Aura so they live longer. How about bumping the damage of stabby helpers with a Power Aura? Maybe, for once, your followers aren't dropping like flies and aren't having too many problems; Burn the adventurers, or frighten them. There's nothing redundant about them, and there's good use for each and every one of them.

And as to them being undragonly- What's more dragonly than a Red Dragon whose very presence burns the screaming peasants into ash(I haven't made it yet, but Fire Aura)? What captures a dragon's majesty better than literally being empowered by seeing one(Power, Fortitude, Resistance)? Nothing, that's what.
Monsters aren't creatures; they're blocks of numbers for players to overcome.
I could argue with a lot of the stuff I just quoted. I could point out that nothing you said about changing areas of effects makes sense - a cone blaster wouldn't really be able to purse its lips to breathe a line (try this with a sprinkler), a line blaster absolutely couldn't swing its head from side to side to make a cone (imagine this with a dragon whose 'breath' is an instantaneous bolt of lightning!), and I'm not even sure where you'd get the idea that a creature that breathes fire in a cone could "charge it, but only hit a single person" (flamethrowers are the closest thing real life has to dragon breath and they definitely don't work that way). I could point out that despite being magical fire creatures by definition, fire elementals can't sense fire. I could point out that just because the dragon would like to help its followers, doesn't mean it can, or else my assassin totally should have been able to cast haste in that last encounter because I wanted the fighter to do better.
But that's tangential to the actual issue here, which is the blurring of the word "logic." You're using it to refer to Watsonian logic (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WatsonianVersusDoylist), the logic of the game world where dragons are real creatures. But that's not very useful for game design. Dragons are made-up, so you could hypothetically justify, with Watsonian logic, giving them whatever powers you want. They're frequently worshipped in D&D lore, as you mentioned, so why not give them the power to grant divine magic? We may as well make them immortal and let them create life, while we're at it. They're just bigger basilisks, if you think about it, so we'll let them kill people with a single glance; they're legends in many different places, so we'll let them teleport at will... This could go on forever.
No, Doylist logic is the way to go. A monster has X feature so that the players have to do Y to beat it. If it doesn't directly contribute to the players' experience, it shouldn't be there. That's game design.
As an example, let's pick a random MM monster... how about the Glabrezu? It's slated to be the final boss in a short game I'm currently running, and it's reasonably complex. There's no safe way to defeat a Glabrezu — it heavily resists most forms of magic, holds up great in a fistfight, and knows a handful of really nasty spells to mess with the opposition — but there is an identifiable strategy: have warriors with magic weapons/Eldritch Blasts fight it, either up close or from a distance, with magical support to overcome its many tricks. It doesn't have a horn attack, even though it's usually depicted with large horns, because a horn attack doesn't help it fulfil its purpose. The horn attack makes sense from a Watsonian perspective, but from a Doylist view, it's illogical. So it gets cut.

I list these out because if you disagree with any of these philosophical points, then there's nothing more of value I can offer. All of the above are, for me, cardinal virtues of game design. Any feedback I offered would be aimed at making better obstacles for PCs to overcome. If you see dragons as more than that, then we'll have to agree to disagree. It's also the best advice I have to offer.

Also, for the record, my CR math actually did include all of the wyrmling's abilities, including my best guess at how to represent the Acid Burst/Draconic Instinct/Thick Scales combo. You've updated the wyrmling AFAIK, so that math will no longer apply, but I assure you I was factoring in everything when I called it a low CR 4.

demonslayerelf
2018-11-06, 07:53 PM
I'm not gonna bother with quotes, I have a blanket response.

That explains why. Now, I don't agree with a single thing you just said. And we could turn this into a debate over whether a game world should be more "World" or more "Game", being that it is the difference between Watsonian and Doylist design(At least applied to DnD), but there's absolutely no point. So let it be known nothing you just said really works for me... In the slightest, in fact.

Again, I could rant about how you might as well play a video game(Or something that requires even less investment) if only the stats matter, but it would change nothing. I could point out that there are mechanical reasons why a Horn attack would absolutely help the Glabrezu, but it would change nothing.

Instead, I'm gonna take a second to rebrand the whole project... In a way. These are Dragons with story potential and abilities that have more than only mechanical meaning. Have fun with them.

Lacuna Caster
2018-11-07, 05:52 AM
They're frequently worshipped in D&D lore, as you mentioned, so why not give them the power to grant divine magic? We may as well make them immortal and let them create life, while we're at it. They're just bigger basilisks, if you think about it, so we'll let them kill people with a single glance; they're legends in many different places, so we'll let them teleport at will... This could go on forever.
Well, there is actually some precedent (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wufang_Shangdi#Huangdi%E2%80%94Yellow_Deity) for this, right down to the convenient colour-coding.

I don't think I'm nearly as educated on the ins and outs of CR balancing, but FWIW I'm perfectly fine with dragons being nigh-omnipotent semi-divine beings, so long as they're CR'd appropriately. It's not as though the occasional D&D game hasn't involved killing one or more Gods.

Yddisac
2018-11-07, 08:43 AM
Well, there is actually some precedent (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wufang_Shangdi#Huangdi%E2%80%94Yellow_Deity) for this, right down to the convenient colour-coding.

I don't think I'm nearly as educated on the ins and outs of CR balancing, but FWIW I'm perfectly fine with dragons being nigh-omnipotent semi-divine beings, so long as they're CR'd appropriately. It's not as though the occasional D&D game hasn't involved killing one or more Gods.

A word of caution here: Eastern and Western dragons are very different. Crossing the streams may be... bad.

@OP: If you disagree with my design goals, then yes, there's nothing more we can say to each other. But please, please keep point #2 in mind. Mary Sues are toxic to storytelling as to gameplay. Good luck with the rest~

Lacuna Caster
2018-11-07, 09:23 AM
A word of caution here: Eastern and Western dragons are very different. Crossing the streams may be... bad.
Yeah, but are they (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?573155-Four-Setting-Sketches), though? I mean, sure, the mythological connotations are mostly positive (which is the main reason why D&D has metallic dragons in the first place), but the general associations (https://www.theworldofchinese.com/2012/01/chinese-dragon-vs-western-dragon/) of dragonhood with the hereditary imperial dynasty de jour does raise some, ah, questions of it's own.

demonslayerelf
2018-11-07, 11:57 AM
I don't think I'm nearly as educated on the ins and outs of CR balancing, but FWIW I'm perfectly fine with dragons being nigh-omnipotent semi-divine beings, so long as they're CR'd appropriately. It's not as though the occasional D&D game hasn't involved killing one or more Gods.
I mean, I'm not really doing CR, but I put the note in the beginning so it probably works for you, right? :P


A word of caution here: Eastern and Western dragons are very different. Crossing the streams may be... bad.
Then whaddya say about Tiamat? Bahamut? Null? Hlal? You know, all those Dragon Gods in dnd worlds? Many of which have mortal origins(At least in some tellings of the origin). How's that for your precedent of semi-divine and ACTUALLY divine dragons in reference to Dungeons and Dragons? There's no need to involve eastern vs. western dragons, the games themselves had already done it.


@OP: If you disagree with my design goals, then yes, there's nothing more we can say to each other. But please, please keep point #2 in mind. Mary Sues are toxic to storytelling as to gameplay. Good luck with the rest~
The problem with point 2 is that these dragons aren't Mary Sues. I recommend you look at Overly Sarcastic Production's video on Sues for a more in-depth look at them. The dragons aren't Sues because they still follow the same rules as everything else. They roll the same checks, attack the same attacks against the same AC, make the same saves against the Save DC's.(I mean... Changing the numbers around. In concept, is what I'm saying.) They're not the absolute focus of the story, and they aren't 'lulz just suuuper awseom!'
Are they powerful? On a relative basis, yes, they're powerful as hell, as they should be(Read: As all monsters who are supposed to fight the party should be.) Will they outclass the entire monster manual? The Great Wyrms certainly will(At least, until I completely rewrite the monster manual *Evil Villain Laugh* ).
What do players do to win? They FIGHT. They plan a course of attack, strategize with their spells and abilities, go in with purpose, and manage the dragon's own actions. What do they not do? Run in with no plan and keep swinging until it dies, as happens in EVERY 5E DRAGON FIGHT. Do that, and your characters are going to die swift and painfully. Try to make it a slog, and the dragon just eats you(Especially the bigger ones). You have to use the options available to you; That means dodging, dashing, hiding, maybe disengaging. NOT the Attack action, every turn, for the entire fight. Run distractions, run spells, maybe just run sometimes, if it's looking bad. It requires a tactical understanding beyond "Hit dragon with sword or Eldritch Blast". That's not a Mary Sue, it's just more challenging than what 5e does.

If you put in a weakness, the players will abuse that weakness to no end. ("You mean Strahd doesn't like Fire damage?" *Elemental Weapon Fire, and make 12 Molotov Cocktails from the inn's ale*) Easy solutions are just that; Easy.

And as to story meaning; How many times have you put a "Friendly God" NPC in to help the party? None? Okay, keep it up, and this shouldn't matter.

(And a quick note on why a dragon would have minions; Good magical support, more meatshielding, and abilities they don't have, for instance the ability to inflict several conditions like... Well, any of them, save prone and grappled.(With exceptions based on dragon color.) Or to balance the action economy field, or the actual power gauging with the players(For instance, if you have level 15 players, maybe do a Young Dragon and some of their cult, instead of one adult dragon). Most every other reason is Watsonian, so you don't care, and I will not bother to say them.)