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Silkensword
2018-05-17, 01:05 PM
The Duelist is such a famous archetype for characters in fiction that I'm honestly surprised Wizards hasn't implemented a Subclass for 5e yet. I suppose the Swashbuckler comes the closest! I made an effort to build a fighter subclass with the ability to excel in such fighting, without being useless in bigger fights.

Fighter Subclass: Duelist

Here you can have a look!
(https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QAWX_cfHjIqc_kLSuQ4OwY0BjmJMlN_7ygZN98zThzM/edit?usp=sharing)

GalacticAxekick
2018-05-17, 01:44 PM
Focus is an interesting way to mechanically represent the duelist. By rewarding the player for attacking one enemy, you really encourage them to look and feel like a duelist: powerful and untouchable within that duel.

That said, I have a few concerns:
"Learning the Song" isn't very clear on how much focus you gain or lose at a time. Is it one point gained for every hit after the first? And do you lose one point when you attack a different creature or spend a minute without hitting the first?
The Fighter is a strong and durable class, but it lacks social features and exploration features. The 7th level feature is meant to fix that, but your "Learning the Dance" is purely combat oriented.
What's worse, "Learning the Dance" is a very powerful feature that goes against 5e's philosophy of bounded accuracy: avoiding numerical bonuses or penalties. +6 AC against an enemy (and later three enemies) can be achieved relatively easly.
Regarding "Singing the Song"; nothing free should automatically hit.
"Leading the Dance" is a fun way to introduce options to the Fighter: a class that's usually limited to attack, attack, and attack again. I'd encourage you to push this feature earlier so the Fighter can do fun things as soon as possible. 3rd level even.

Silkensword
2018-05-17, 01:47 PM
Thank you so much, this is exactly the kind of feedback I need!! I will re-work it immediately since I have... too much caffeine in my system.

EDIT: Do you think a static plus 2 to AC would be in keeping with Bounded Accuracy, if its the level 15 feature?

Silkensword
2018-05-17, 02:27 PM
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QAWX_cfHjIqc_kLSuQ4OwY0BjmJMlN_7ygZN98zThzM/edit?usp=sharing here's the link to the live updated version.

GalacticAxekick
2018-05-17, 03:31 PM
Commenting on the docnow:

Focus Effects:
Slap Wrist should not inflict a numerical penalty (bounded accuracy!). Instead, impose disadvantage.
Painful Slice should use 5e's standard saving throw structure: 8 + ability + proficiency (bounded accuracy!)
Disrupt makes mechanical sense but no thematic sense. How is a duelist preventing some spells but not others? I'd either (A) prevent spells that use certain components instead of spells of a certain level or (B) require a concentration/constitution saving throw before any spell is cast.
Greater Disrupt could prevent both verbal spells and somatic spells, or require a more difficult save.
Slice the Weave could simply prevent sp
In general, your focus effects have high costs and powerful effects. Because most battles last about 4 rounds, many of these will rarely come up. I'd lower costs across the board, but allow saving throws against the effects.

Learning the Dance should allow a saving throw. To compensate for being less reliable, I'd explicitly allow it to target more than one creature at a time.

Graceful Step is far less concerning than the +6 AC it used to be. Excellent. But I miss the name "leading the dance".

Sustenance in Strife provides free healing, but only provided a durable enemy to whack at. I don't see how it could be abused, but I suspect it could be.

Silkensword
2018-05-18, 05:24 AM
Focus Effects:
In general, your focus effects have high costs and powerful effects. Because most battles last about 4 rounds, many of these will rarely come up. I'd lower costs across the board, but allow saving throws against the effects.


Yeah, I had balanced it originally for a level 15 character who gets more attacks per round, but now that it's a level 3 ability, I'm reworking the costs and effects, once again- your feedback on this is invaluable. Thank you so much.

Composer99
2018-05-18, 07:32 AM
Exhaustion strikes me as a condition that can be powerful when inflicted on PCs, but is overrated when inflicted on NPCs and monsters in combat, because most of them will die or otherwise be removed from the narrative afterwards, and the menace of exhaustion is more long-term.

In particular, unless an NPC or monster has a lot of abilities that rely on ability checks, the first level of exhaustion is basically meaningless in the context of a 4- or 5-round combat.

All that's to say that you could easily justify reducing the cost of inflicting exhaustion to 4 or 5 focus, especially if the target gets a Constitution saving throw to avoid it.

Silkensword
2018-05-18, 08:24 AM
Exhaustion strikes me as a condition that can be powerful when inflicted on PCs, but is overrated when inflicted on NPCs and monsters in combat, because most of them will die or otherwise be removed from the narrative afterwards, and the menace of exhaustion is more long-term.

In particular, unless an NPC or monster has a lot of abilities that rely on ability checks, the first level of exhaustion is basically meaningless in the context of a 4- or 5-round combat.

All that's to say that you could easily justify reducing the cost of inflicting exhaustion to 4 or 5 focus, especially if the target gets a Constitution saving throw to avoid it.


ah, thank you! I tend to design from the perspective of a DM inflicting things on players, I think I'm gonna do exactly what you suggested!