firebolt vs fireball how do the words feel to native speakers?

[Myth27]

I always get these two spells confused, I was wondering how they feel to English native speakers, what do you immediately imagine when you hear the word fire bolt?

[Theodoxus]

Bolt in this context, is a short line. Think crossbow bolt; or more appropriately, blaster bolt from Star Wars.

Whereas ball implies that the explosion encompasses a spherical shape.

So, the two spell names denote the shape of the attack, though I can certainly see where their similarity could create confusion.

Hope that helps!

[ad_hoc]

I think of crossbow bolt

[DrowPiratRobrts]

I always get these two spells confused, I was wondering how they feel to English native speakers, what do you immediately imagine when you hear the word fire bolt?

Firebolt is like a small "lighting bolt" of fire that streaks out of your wand or finger gun or whatever focus you use. If you've ever shocked someone with a Van de Graaff generator it's like that but bigger.

Fireball is like a big explosion of fire, as if you poured several gallons of gasoline on a burn pile and then lit the whole thing. There's no mistaking that when it happens, and you better be far away!

Does that help?

[Ninja_Prawn]

For me (native British English), they work fine. 'Bolt' and 'ball' have very different implications - to me a bolt is a small, discrete chunk of fire that doesn't explode on impact. Like the 'flare' spell from Elder Scrolls IV, or Mako's firebending from Legend of Korra. A fireball is something that explodes in a large area, like when a gas cylinder catches fire.

https://data.whicdn.com/images/59975840/original.gif
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/GlmjaBlcZMg/maxresdefault.jpg

[smcmike]

Mostly I just imagine a fire cantrip, similar to the innumerable examples of low level fire attacks in video games, vaguely comet-shaped (roundish in front with a tail).

The word “bolt” is most commonly used in English for a piece of hardware - a metal pin used to fasten things together or to bar a door. It’s also the projectile fires by a crossbow, which is similar in shape - a short, heavy rod (in comparison with an arrow). It’s also used for lightening bolt or thunderbolt.

Fireball is mostly cemented in my brain due to years of D&D usage, but the defining characteristic is a large round spread of fire, like something an action hero dives out of the way of.

[Myth27]

Thanks everyone! You have been very helpful

[Tanarii]

I've had several new-to-D&D players of Wizards that constantly mixed the two up. It's very confusing when they hit level 5. As well as causes moments of panic among their allies.

Multiple conversations like:
"I Fireball the Gnoll."
"No! We're too close!"
"Sorry, Firebolt."
/groupfacepalm

The situation isn't helped by video games, in particular WoW, that have used Fireball as their name for throwing a small ball of fire at a single enemy. ie a D&D Firebolt.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I've had several new-to-D&D players of Wizards that constantly mixed the two up. It's very confusing when they hit level 5. As well as causes moments of panic among their allies.

Multiple conversations like:
"I Fireball the Gnoll."
"No! We're too close!"
"Sorry, Firebolt."
/groupfacepalm

The situation isn't helped by video games, in particular WoW, that have used Fireball as their name for throwing a small ball of fire at a single enemy. ie a D&D Firebolt.

I've had this same thing, especially with people who don't always enunciate properly. I can attest to the moments of panic.

[MaxWilson]

The situation isn't helped by video games, in particular WoW, that have used Fireball as their name for throwing a small ball of fire at a single enemy. ie a D&D Firebolt.

WoW doesn't have "real" Fireballs? What a waste of a word!

[Afrodactyl]

I've had this same thing, especially with people who don't always enunciate properly. I can attest to the moments of panic.

Which is why as a DM, I always have a list of people's spells knocking about. That way if a character says 'fireball', and I know they only have firebolt, they mean firebolt.

I also always ask what type of spell it is as well when clarifying it.
"I cast firebolt"
"The cantrip?"
"Yeah, the cantrip"
"Cool, roll away"

[Tanarii]

WoW doesn't have "real" Fireballs? What a waste of a word!
I don't think there's a clear analogue to D&D's Fireball. It's been a while though.

Confusing matters more, Firebolt is the name for the Warlock's Imp's version of the Mage's Fireball.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I don't think there's a clear analogue to D&D's Fireball. It's been a while though.

Confusing matters more, Firebolt is the name for the Warlock's Imp's version of the Mage's Fireball.

If you mean "a big targeted AoE in the shape of a sphere", no, there isn't a clear analogue. Their targeted AoE is flamestrike, which is a very different visual. They do have a "hurl a giant ball of fire at a target" spell (pyroblast) and a cone aoe (Dragon's Breath).

[DeadMech]

I got into a bad habit at early levels of saying. "I toss a fireball at his face." While rolling a d20 and a d10 for firebolt.

Then flaming sphere comes online. "I toss a fireball out and boop this one. Boop." While placing a red translucent d12 on the map and making it gently booping it into the d4 representing the bad guy.

Now I have fireball. But eventually I'll have Firewall... I toss up a fireball...firewall."

But only other spell that comes to mind that tosses firey balls about is meteor swarm and that doesn't come online for a good long time. Maybe I'll have broken the habit by then.

[Ninja_Prawn]

But only other spell that comes to mind that tosses firey balls

Chromatic orb can also be a ball of fire. Fortunately there's no Yanny/Laurel issue with that one, though.

[suplee215]

It can be confusing and the only reason I don't confuse it is due to my experience with fantasy games. Fireball from Dnd and even Magic the Gathering is a big, unwieldy spell that takes out armies. Whereas firebolt is more one on one focus. I can understand confusing both spells though. If Fireball was Firebolt I don't think anyone will question it without the history of Fireball. The other way does not work as well because bolt does suggest a more targeted spell than fireball.

[Myth27]

Yeah exactly the fact that in other (video)games those names mean different things gave me this idea that the names are kinda arbitrary so I wanted to know if that was truly the case. I guess that if you don’t have an history with the dnd fireball you’re likely to get them confused.

There is also the problem when speaking, how do you pronounce them? Do they sound the same except for the final T?

[suplee215]

Yeah exactly the fact that in other (video)games those names mean different things gave me this idea that the names are kinda arbitrary so I wanted to know if that was truly the case. I guess that if you don’t have an history with the dnd fireball you’re likely to get them confused.

There is also the problem when speaking, how do you pronounce them? Do they sound the same except for the final T?
bolt and ball does not seem that familiar to me sound wise. While I can see people pronouncing "bol" and "ball" similar the vowels are different enough. I've never seen anyone pronounce "bat" and "bot" in a way that confused the two.

[Asmotherion]

Wile not a native English Speaker, I think I can help in this situation.

When imagining a Firebolt, think of a magical Flare Gun, probably without the gun (strarting either from your hand or Arcane Focus). Variations may exist, but that's the basic shape I'd give it. It is a "projectile" made of fire, thus a fire bolt.

When thinking of a Fireball, think of Dynamite, except it's fueled by magic, and instead of exploding, it only causes fire to erupt from it. You throw a small ball of fire to a distance, and it then explodes into a flaming hell, shaped as a sphere (or ball) around the point were you threw it, giving double meaning to it's name "fireball".


Chromatic orb can also be a ball of fire. Fortunately there's no Yanny/Laurel issue with that one, though.

Fortunatelly they Aknowlage that Sorcerers are people too, and unlike our Wizard Colleagues, we can't afford to know a gajilion spells just for the sake of being ready for the chance of "we might someday meet a troll, so I need something that deals Solid Fire Damage as well". Asgorath be blessed for Chromatic Orb and Dragon's Breath really! XD

[Honest Tiefling]

Bolt in this context, is a short line. Think crossbow bolt; or more appropriately, blaster bolt from Star Wars.

Whereas ball implies that the explosion encompasses a spherical shape.

Pretty much this, as a native English speaker of FREEDOM ENGLISH. (Also known as 'Murican'.) Never really has bothered me, but I have been playing DnD for a while, so I'm used to distinusihing between wizards, magus, mage, conjurer, sorcerer, etc.

If you are having issues, you could perhaps have cards with the spell descriptions and names on them. Have players hold one up or link the description if playing online. Or heck, have them specify which by calling out the spell level of the spell to avoid confusion.

[Petrocorus]

One way to deal with it would be to rename Fire Bolt as Fire Arrow at your table. That doesn't sound as good (i think, at least to my non-native English speaker ears), but it would work.

Out of curiosity, do you play only in English with native English speakers?

[KorvinStarmast]

There is no confusion.

The "ah" sound in fire ball, and the soft "l" at the end is very different to say as compared to the

"oh" sound and the hard "t" in firebolt.

The tongue stops hard at the teeth with firebolt. With fireball, the tongues goes up a bit toward the roof of the mouth, and the tip doesn't reach the teeth. Likewise, you tend to round your lip together to make something of an "o" shape for firebolt, whereas you open your mouth a bit to get the "ah" sound for ball.

If you pronounce "ball" like "bowl" then you are creating your own problem with pronunciation, but the "t" stop for firebolt ought to save you in any case.

[Tanarii]

One way to deal with it would be to rename Fire Bolt as Fire Arrow at your table. That doesn't sound as good (i think, at least to my non-native English speaker ears), but it would work.
That is a mighty good idea. Or maybe Flame Bolt.

[Kane0]

It's one of those English idiosyncrasies. I've misheard different fire spells enough times for it to be notable, but then again Australians are infamous for being lax with their tongues.
It could be worse, if you could change the element of a spell (looking at you Lore Wizard) you could turn a Lightning Bolt into a Fire Bolt, not to be confused with Firebolt the cantrip...

You could simply rename Firebolt to something like Flare, that might help.


One way to deal with it would be to rename Fire Bolt as Fire Arrow at your table. That doesn't sound as good (i think, at least to my non-native English speaker ears), but it would work.
Could potentially be confused with Flame Arrow. I think the actual problem is that there are just too many damn Fire spells they end up piled on top of each other.

[Malifice]

I always get these two spells confused, I was wondering how they feel to English native speakers, what do you immediately imagine when you hear the word fire bolt?

Bolt means 'bolt of lightning' or 'blaster bolt' or 'long steel rod or arrow fired from a crossbow' or similar. It implies a fast moving (one can also bolt away, meaning move fast) and a rod.

Ball is pretty self explanatory. A sphere or orb.

[Malifice]

'Bolt' comes from the Old English, ‘arrow’, of unknown origin; is related to Dutch bout and German Bolzen ‘arrow, bolt for a door’.

[Petrocorus]

Could potentially be confused with Flame Arrow. I think the actual problem is that there are just too many damn Fire spells they end up piled on top of each other.

Didn't think about that.

If i may offer some translation perspective from French.

For Fire Bolt, "Bolt" has been translated to word which can mean "crossbow bolt" or "line", it does sound like "Fire Line". But we often say "Fire Arrow".
"Fireball" has been translated into "Fireball".
"Flame Arrows" has been translated into "inflamed arrow". With a singular for whatever reason. The plural would have avoided confusion.

What synonym of "bolt" could we use in English? Burst, Flare, Blast, Dart? Fire Dart doesn't sound too bad?

[ad_hoc]

Fire Dart doesn't sound too bad?

Dart conveys the same meaning as Bolt so that works.

[RSP]

I can understand an issue with non-experienced DnD players: if I hadn't grown up playing and knowing that "fireball" meant a giant ball of fire, I'd probably assume "fireball" was more like a common ball but of fire, like a baseball or perhaps a basket/soccer ball size.

I don't know that "ball" would intuitively mean "20' radius sphere" to me, without help from past experience. Likewise, without said past knowledge, I could see "ball" and "bolt" appearing to be about the same things in terms of items made of fire.

[Tanarii]

"Flame Arrows" has been translated into "inflamed arrow". With a singular for whatever reason. The plural would have avoided confusion.
This made me laugh a bit.
Is it a wounded and swollen arrow?
Or an angrily passionate arrow?
:smallamused:

[smcmike]

I can understand an issue with non-experienced DnD players: if I hadn't grown up playing and knowing that "fireball" meant a giant ball of fire, I'd probably assume "fireball" was more like a common ball but of fire, like a baseball or perhaps a basket/soccer ball size.

I don't know that "ball" would intuitively mean "20' radius sphere" to me, without help from past experience. Likewise, without said past knowledge, I could see "ball" and "bolt" appearing to be about the same things in terms of items made of fire.

Fireballs are actual things, though, associated with fiery explosions in the real world (and in action movies). That’s what I think of when I hear the word.

[RSP]

Fireballs are actual things, though, associated with fiery explosions in the real world (and in action movies). That’s what I think of when I hear the word.

They could be, sure. But if we're just looking at what to expect in a fantasy world of magic, I could see how someone could intuit a "fireball" and a "firebolt" as roughly equivalent.

A ball of fire is also essentially what Produce Flame makes and allows you to throw. Again, I'm aware of the difference in DnD of what "a ball of fire" is versus a "fireball," but I can understand how they can be confused, particularly when also dealing with language translations.

[Petrocorus]

This made me laugh a bit.
Is it a wounded and swollen arrow?
Or an angrily passionate arrow?
:smallamused:
I guess i mistranslated this.
Happy to have made you laugh.
I meant "Arrow in flames".

[Tanarii]

I guess i mistranslated this.
Happy to have made you laugh.
I meant "Arrow in flames".
Not in a hostile way, I assure you. It was the mental picture of a arrow complaining about its swollen (inflamed) knees that got me.

[JackPhoenix]

I've had several new-to-D&D players of Wizards that constantly mixed the two up. It's very confusing when they hit level 5. As well as causes moments of panic among their allies.

Multiple conversations like:
"I Fireball the Gnoll."
"No! We're too close!"
"Sorry, Firebolt."
/groupfacepalm

The situation isn't helped by video games, in particular WoW, that have used Fireball as their name for throwing a small ball of fire at a single enemy. ie a D&D Firebolt.

Funny thing: I keep calling the WoW spell firebolt, though that was true since before 5e. I blame Diablo 2: firebolt was basic fire spell, fireball exploded. The WoW spell doesn't explode, so it doesn't deserve to be called fireball.

[Petrocorus]

Not in a hostile way, I assure you. It was the mental picture of a arrow complaining about its swollen (inflamed) knees that got me.

I didn't take it in any hostile way. I understand why it made you laugh.
I just didn't understand the mistake before you pointed it out.
It might be funny, but "in flames" and "inflamed" are the same word in French.

[Tanarii]

I didn't take it in any hostile way. I understand why it made you laugh.
I just didn't understand the mistake before you pointed it out.
It might be funny, but "in flames" and "inflamed" are the same word in French.
I don't know the English etymology, but I can only imagine that "inflamed" comes from "like it's on fire". For both physical swelling (and associated pain), and passionate emotions.

[Demonslayer666]

Interesting thread.

It's curious how many people associate large size and explosion with 'ball'. Fireball can be used to describe an explosion, that's certainly true. It's also a whisky and a candy.

If I were to say how the words feel (the words, not the spells): They feel like a bolt of fire and a ball of fire.

I'm rather curious, how are you confusing the two? Is it the pronunciation, because they do not sound similar to me. (See KorvinStarmast's post)

[dreast]

Interesting thread.

It's curious how many people associate large size and explosion with 'ball'. Fireball can be used to describe an explosion, that's certainly true. It's also a whisky and a candy.

If I were to say how the words feel (the words, not the spells): They feel like a bolt of fire and a ball of fire.

I'm rather curious, how are you confusing the two? Is it the pronunciation, because they do not sound similar to me. (See KorvinStarmast's post)

The "fireball is a big ball of explosive fire" use of the word pre-dates D&D, and the fantasy spell concept in general. D&D didn't coin the phrase for a big explosion of fire being a "fireball." That was long before the D&D "firebolt" existed, which is much more recent. The association of large size and explosion with "ball" is just an English colloquialism.

[smcmike]

Goodness, gracious, great balls of Fire!

[Honest Tiefling]

Dart conveys the same meaning as Bolt so that works.

I agree with our fine Flumphy friend. Darts are usually small, so it might help to reinforce that fireball is a spell, but firebolt is a cantrip.

Or you could change the fire word instead. Fireball vs. Burning Bolt.

[Myth27]

Out of curiosity, do you play only in English with native English speakers?

No I play mostly with non native English speakers


There is no confusion.

The "ah" sound in fire ball, and the soft "l" at the end is very different to say as compared to the

"oh" sound and the hard "t" in firebolt.

The tongue stops hard at the teeth with firebolt. With fireball, the tongues goes up a bit toward the roof of the mouth, and the tip doesn't reach the teeth. Likewise, you tend to round your lip together to make something of an "o" shape for firebolt, whereas you open your mouth a bit to get the "ah" sound for ball.

If you pronounce "ball" like "bowl" then you are creating your own problem with pronunciation, but the "t" stop for firebolt ought to save you in any case.

Interesting, the fact that I thought pronunciations were more similar definitely added to my confusion

[Demonslayer666]

The "fireball is a big ball of explosive fire" use of the word pre-dates D&D, and the fantasy spell concept in general. D&D didn't coin the phrase for a big explosion of fire being a "fireball." That was long before the D&D "firebolt" existed, which is much more recent. The association of large size and explosion with "ball" is just an English colloquialism.

I said there are more definitions than the D&D one, and you point out that they didn't coin it, and then say that it has to be explosive and big, as per the D&D definition... :smallconfused:

I disagree that it has anything to do with size or explosiveness. Any ball of fire is a fireball. Even a small one, and even a non-explosive one. A big fireball explosion is a hollywoodism.

I'm seeing firebolt categorized here as non-explosive, yet ball and bolt are the only differences in the words. That is being derived from the spell and not the basic definition of the words.