Quick thought on Fist Fighter Concept

[Mith]

Hi everyone,

A quick idea that's popped into my head on a Unarmed Fighter archtype: would a fighting style, along with gauntlet type weapons be enough to close the gap?

My initial thought says it would enough to work well. The Champion would give it the boosted Crit chance, the Battle Master can use dice similar to Monk ki points, and the Eldritch Knight can now merge finger wiggling with face punching. This fighting style can carry over to other melee martials that qualify.

What would the fighting style be?

Off the top of my head, I would just make the Fighting style the Tavern Brawler feat merged with Two weapon Fighting, allowing for two attacks (with both at proficiency) for 1d4 + Str and 1d4.

Where this style has a chance to grow, is when paired with "gauntlet class" weapons. While not all gauntlets work for all concepts, I would rank the weapons not on a base damage die, but as a force multiplier.

The basic handwrap idea gives the Fighter an increase in damage die size, while spiked gauntlets increase die size, and an additional 1d4 to damage, and so on. Higher class gauntlets give a strait damage die, with the higher tier gauntlets occupying the hand for cases such as grappling or spellcasting.

This is just a quick thought, so there could be flaws with this concept. What are your thoughts on the idea?

-Mith

[Eric Diaz]

Hi everyone,

A quick idea that's popped into my head on a Unarmed Fighter archtype: would a fighting style, along with gauntlet type weapons be enough to close the gap?

My initial thought says it would enough to work well. The Champion would give it the boosted Crit chance, the Battle Master can use dice similar to Monk ki points, and the Eldritch Knight can now merge finger wiggling with face punching. This fighting style can carry over to other melee martials that qualify.

What would the fighting style be?

Off the top of my head, I would just make the Fighting style the Tavern Brawler feat merged with Two weapon Fighting, allowing for two attacks (with both at proficiency) for 1d4 + Str and 1d4.

Where this style has a chance to grow, is when paired with "gauntlet class" weapons. While not all gauntlets work for all concepts, I would rank the weapons not on a base damage die, but as a force multiplier.

The basic handwrap idea gives the Fighter an increase in damage die size, while spiked gauntlets increase die size, and an additional 1d4 to damage, and so on. Higher class gauntlets give a strait damage die, with the higher tier gauntlets occupying the hand for cases such as grappling or spellcasting.

This is just a quick thought, so there could be flaws with this concept. What are your thoughts on the idea?

-Mith

Well, the best implementation of unarmed fighter concept would be the Monk IMO - damage gets higher as you level up.

One flaw of your concept is that it ties the fighter to finding better and better gauntlets... so does he get it automatically? Needs a nice GM? Or rolls in a random table? Also, those gauntlets are REALLY starting to look like weapons...

One alternative to this would be adding your prof bonus to every bare-hand attack, although it would probably be too much if you combine this with monk.

Another alternative is using a Strength monk. Maybe even allowing him to having an AC of 10 + your Strength modifier + your Wisdom modifier. Or give you an AC bonus while carrying less than your Str in pounds. And "Endure Missiles" intead of Deflect Missiles.

Sounds crazy, but with the lack of weapons and armor I don't see how this would be unbalanced.

Here is one feat I'm experimenting with in my Manual of Arms (it is intended to work both for monks and non-monks and benefit grapplers).

Weapon Focus (Bare knuckles)
Weapons? You need no weapons other than the ones you were born with!
• You can treat your fists, kicks, and other unarmed attack as weapons. They cause 1d4 damage (unless your damage is greater already) and you gain Weapon Focus with them.
• While fighting unarmed, you can [... something that translates to treating your fists as finesse weapons, or add some damage, or accuracy].
• When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or improvised weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a Bonus Action.
• Once per turn, you can add your proficiency bonus to the damage you deal to one creature you hit with an unarmed attack if you have advantage on the Attack roll.

[Vogie]

Basically what you were suggesting is a strength-based monk that can wear armor. The martial arts feature of Monk simply states that you can use dexterity in place of strength, not that you have to. This sounds like something that would be easier to do as a Homebrew monastic tradition rather than a fighting style, similar to how Kensai gave the ability for any weapon to be a monk weapon.

However if you want to make it a fighting style I would suggest just taking the text from martial arts and then applying it to a fighting style, just with the parts about monk weapons, and not wearing armor removed. That would give all fighters the ability to have finesse unarmed attacks, ( give the fighter a choice between strength and dexterity) and also give the option of using a shield as a weapon. I believe the way that martial arts is written, means that the bonus action unarmed strike will also have dex(or str) plus proficiency.

That way you will not only have given the ability for fighters to be unarmed easily, you also allow them to be Captain America

[Desteplo]

Do the easy thing.

Refluff hammers as your fists. Done and done

[Mith]

Thanks for the replies so far. I will respond in general due to posting from a phone.

My reasoning for a Fighting Style vs. Subclass is to allow for the greater variability, as it is something any Fighting Style martial can pick up. This is a Fighter (class) that fights by punching things. Yes the Monk is the easiest, but this exercise was going with first idea, since people keep bringing it up every so often.

The gauntlet weapons are weapon class concept that are available for a martial character to use in general. Basic handwraps could be a general "always on" weapon that perhaps nullifies the gloves body slot. Magic handwraps can be found or created as a DM sees fit.

As for re fluffing hammers as fists with TWF, that probably would work out the same as the Unarmed fighter with handwraps with this idea IIRC.

[Quoz]

I think this is already handled pretty well in a few ways. First is to play a race like Tabaxi or Lizardfolk with an unarmed strike. If that doesn't fit, tavern brawler or a 1 level dip in monk also does the trick. Final way is a custom magic item. Gloves or gauntlets that give you a monk's unarmed damage die based on character level and count as light finesse weapons.

I think the rules for it are a bit fuzzy, I would be fine with any interpretation that you can use unarmed strikes as light weapons for the purpose of two weapon fighting.

[CTurbo]

I like the idea of Tavern Brawler minus the bonus grapple and stat bump combined with TWF style.

Refluffing the Monk is definitely the easiest way to do this, but you could make it work with the Fighter class too.

I don't really think relying on Gauntlets from the DM is a good idea though.

Are you wanting this to be a grappling class too? They kind of go hand in hand IMO.

[CTurbo]

Ok here we go.

Bare Knuckle Brawler Fighter Archetype


Fist Fighter
Starting at level 3, you become master of hand to hand combat. Your unarmed strikes deal 1d4 bludgeoning damage and you can add 1/2 your proficiency bonus, rounded down, to any damage dealt by your fists. When you score a critical hit on a large or smaller creature, the creature must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or fall prone. DC = 8 + your Str + proficiency bonus

Powered Strikes
Starting at level 7, your strikes become so powerful that they become magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to non magical attacks and damage.

Fists of Fury
Starting at level 10, you become so adept at fist fighting, when you take the bonus action to punch with your off-hand, you can make two attacks instead of one. At level 18, you can make a third attack.

Bell Ringer
Starting at level 15, when you score a critical hit on a large or smaller creature, the creature must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or fall unconscious.






Short sweet and simple. My thinking here is that a brawler would/should probably be able to get off a lot of punches so instead of scaling the damage die up like the Monk, I just gave him more unarmed attacks. That's two punches from levels 1-4, three punches from levels 5-9, four punches at level 10, five punches from levels 11-17, six punches at levels 18 and 19, and finally 7 punches at level 20, but they maximum each punch would be doing is 1d4+8 assuming a 20 Str. The TWF Style is not absolutely required but obviously recommended.

[Specter]

You can't have the cake and eat it too. Either deal 1d4 damage with Tavern Brawler, or deal 1d8 with weapons and deal with that hassle (getting disarmed, spending money, keeping your hands busy, etc.).

[DrowPiratRobrts]

Ok here we go.

Bare Knuckle Brawler Fighter Archetype


Fist Fighter
Starting at level 3, you become master of hand to hand combat. Your unarmed strikes deal 1d4 bludgeoning damage and you can add 1/2 your proficiency bonus, rounded down, to any damage dealt by your fists. When you score a critical hit on a large or smaller creature, the creature must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or fall prone. DC = 8 + your Str + proficiency bonus

Powered Strikes
Starting at level 7, your strikes become so powerful that they become magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to non magical attacks and damage.

Fists of Fury
Starting at level 10, you become so adept at fist fighting, when you take the bonus action to punch with your off-hand, you can make two attacks instead of one. At level 18, you can make a third attack.

Bell Ringer
Starting at level 15, when you score a critical hit on a large or smaller creature, the creature must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or fall unconscious.






Short sweet and simple. My thinking here is that a brawler would/should probably be able to get off a lot of punches so instead of scaling the damage die up like the Monk, I just gave him more unarmed attacks. That's two punches from levels 1-4, three punches from levels 5-9, four punches at level 10, five punches from levels 11-17, six punches at levels 18 and 19, and finally 7 punches at level 20, but they maximum each punch would be doing is 1d4+8 assuming a 20 Str. The TWF Style is not absolutely required but obviously recommended.


Did you pull this from somewhere or create it yourself? I love it!

[Mikal]

Do the easy thing.

Refluff hammers as your fists. Done and done

...This is a joke right?

[Vogie]

...This is a joke right?

Hammers have the thrown property

This allows them to throw a punch

[JoeJ]

Hammers have the thrown property

This allows them to throw a punch

Rocket punch! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVfv1YctCLg)

[CTurbo]

Did you pull this from somewhere or create it yourself? I love it!


Just made it up

[strangebloke]

I like a fighting style, because it allows for fist-fighting fighters, rangers, paladins, etc. and because you can combine it with different subclasses for different flavors. For example, a fist-fighting battlemaster is a technician, but a fist fighting champion is a slugger.

Secondly, these were the constraints I had

-can't step on Tavern Brawler's toes, since tavern brawler is the 'unarmed combat' support feat.
-Can add more damage than dueling/TWF, but shouldn't cause fist-fighting to deal more damage than either, since having two free hands has advantages.
-Shouldn't allow for fist-and-shield fighting style.
-Shouldn't work with default monk builds since that would result in a silly number of fighter/monks

Fighting Style: Unarmed Striker
When both of your hands are empty and you make an unarmed attack using strength, you may add your proficiency bonus to damage. Your fists can be considered light weapons for the purposes of combat.

So you can TWF with two fists, dealing 3+STR for your main attack and 3 on your offhand. You'll deal less damage than pretty much everyone else at every level, and while the Tavern brawler feat is a boost, this still isn't an overpowered option in the slightest.

But it isn't abymsally bad, either.

[CTurbo]

I like a fighting style, because it allows for fist-fighting fighters, rangers, paladins, etc. and because you can combine it with different subclasses for different flavors. For example, a fist-fighting battlemaster is a technician, but a fist fighting champion is a slugger.

Secondly, these were the constraints I had

-can't step on Tavern Brawler's toes, since tavern brawler is the 'unarmed combat' support feat.
-Can add more damage than dueling/TWF, but shouldn't cause fist-fighting to deal more damage than either, since having two free hands has advantages.
-Shouldn't allow for fist-and-shield fighting style.
-Shouldn't work with default monk builds since that would result in a silly number of fighter/monks

Fighting Style: Unarmed Striker
When both of your hands are empty and you make an unarmed attack using strength, you may add your proficiency bonus to damage. Your fists can be considered light weapons for the purposes of combat.

So you can TWF with two fists, dealing 3+STR for your main attack and 3 on your offhand. You'll deal less damage than pretty much everyone else at every level, and while the Tavern brawler feat is a boost, this still isn't an overpowered option in the slightest.

But it isn't abymsally bad, either.


I thought about keeping standard damage as 1+Str and adding the proficiency bonus to damage but I think it ends up too strong at higher levels. You'd end up doing 12 damage per strike which is better on average that a high level Monk'a 1d10+5 and WAY better than Tavern Brawler has to offer.

Edit: Oh I see the offhand doesn't get +Str to damage. I think this would make getting Tavern Brawler absolutely mandatory though. Then your strikes would be 1d4+11

[strangebloke]

I thought about keeping standard damage as 1+Str and adding the proficiency bonus to damage but I think it ends up too strong at higher levels. You'd end up doing 12 damage per strike which is better on average that a high level Monk'a 1d10+5 and WAY better than Tavern Brawler has to offer.

Edit: Oh I see the offhand doesn't get +Str to damage. I think this would make getting Tavern Brawler absolutely mandatory though. Then your strikes would be 1d4+11

Well, the feat is still only worth it because it's a half feat. I mean, it's only giving you a +1.5. The possibly overpowered application here is if you combo this with a lizardfolk's bite. Still unsure if I should word it such that its only possible with a fist.

And I'm actually ok with a high level fist-fighter dealing better damage than a monk. Still, I can see that it's a bit too high.

Hmmm... what about:

Fighting Style: Unarmed Striker
When both of your hands are empty and you make an unarmed attack using strength, you may add both strength and dexterity to your damage. Your fists can be considered light weapons for the purposes of combat.

Max damage is still right up there with greatswords and the like, (without feats) but requires tons of investment to get there. More realistically, you start with a 14 in DEX and medium armor and deal 3+STR for most of your career, which is perfectly respectable.

[CTurbo]

Well, the feat is still only worth it because it's a half feat. I mean, it's only giving you a +2.5. The possibly overpowered application here is if you combo this with a lizardfolk's bite. Still unsure if I should word it such that its only possible with a fist.

And I'm actually ok with a high level fist-fighter dealing better damage than a monk. Still, I can see that it's a bit too high.

Hmmm... what about:

Fighting Style: Unarmed Striker
When both of your hands are empty and you make an unarmed attack using strength, you may add both strength and dexterity to your damage. Your fists can be considered light weapons for the purposes of combat.

Max damage is still right up there with greatswords and the like, (without feats) but requires tons of investment to get there. More realistically, you start with a 14 in DEX and medium armor and deal 3+STR for most of your career, which is perfectly respectable.



I like Str+Dex better because while it is possible to make it really high with 20 Str and 20 Dex, but you'd have to invest a lot to get it. More realistically it would end up being 20 Str and 16 Dex which puts it right in line with the half of proficiency bonus rounded down that I went with.

I don't mind it being super strong if it involves a lot of investing.

[MagneticKitty]

What about..

Fighting style: not sure what to call it

You may add both your strength and dex modifier to your unarmed strikes damage, and they are considered light.

~~~~~~

So you can still use unnarmed just requires a stat commitment. Works with monk/barb, and tavern brawler. Crits not as powerful as with weapons, but is very reliable
Works with dual weilding

Or

Fighting style
Your fists do 1d4 + str (2d4 + str when you have tavern brawler)
Before you roll, you may choose to do unarmed strikes without applying your proficiency modifier to the attack bonus, instead apply your proficiency bonus to the attack's damage.

~~~~

Sacrifice accuracy for damage

[MagneticKitty]

Actually lets make these into a fighter subclass based on Asian martial art styles..


Fighting Stance
Starting at level 3 when you are fighting empty handed, you may use your bonus action to select a stance. You remain in this stance until you change it with a bonus action. Your unarmed strikes count as light finesse weapons that deal 1d6 damage.

Leopard: You concentrate on accuracy and the opponents weak points. While in this stance, roll advantage on your unnarmed strike attack rolls. Once you

successfully hit with your unnarmed attack you may not apply advantage in this way again for the rest of the turn.

Tiger: You focus on the power of each strike, so that each landed hit does as high of damage as possible. While in this stance, you may not add your

proficiency modifier to the attack bonus, in addition apply your Constitution modifier to the attack's damage.

Crane: You strike in flowing motions, geared more towards defense than offense. Your unnarmed strikes have a reach of 10 feet as you bob in and out of

your opponents reach, and while in this stance add +1 to your ac.

Snake: You focus on quick deceptive feints and jabs to confuse and immobilize your enemy. While in this stance, for each hit that lands successfully

your opponent loses 5 movement speed on their next turn up to half their movement.

Spirit's Guidance
Starting at level 7 the spirits of ancestors have taken interest in you. Through practice and their guidance, you have trained your body in remarkable

ways. Your unarmed strikes count as magical for the purpose of overcoming Resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.

Meditation
Starting at level 10 whenever you roll hit dice for HP recovery or your second wind, add twice your constitution modifier.

Stance of the Dragon
Starting at level 15 You have mastered the other fighting stances, and you're able to switch between them effortlessly. You may apply a different effect

to each hit freely without using a bonus action. You must announce the style before rolling to hit.

Avatar state
Starting at level 18 you can push your body to the limit. Once per long rest you may use your bonus action to apply the effects of all 4 fighting styles

to your attacks for the next minute. You must complete a short or long rest before you can use this ability again.

Work in progress...

[djreynolds]

Take the brute fighter archetype from the UA
Take tavern brawler
Add damage to all proficient weapons
Done