Balancing Casters (Literally)

[NerdHut]

There's a Balancing Casters bandwagon coming through the forums lately. I thought I'd join in with my own obnoxious twist.

What's the best BALANCE modifier you can get with a character using only full casting classes? I'm not great at this specific kind of optimization, so I'll just set the rules and let those of you who are inclined get in on the fun.

Sources allowed: All WotC books for 3.5. 3e material that was not superceded may be used, if updated appropriately. No 3rd party stuff, no Dragon Magazine, no Pathfinder.

Level: Any level up to ECL 20. Obviously max level means the highest max ranks, but if you only want to play this game up to a few levels, just state the level you went up to with your build.

Races: Anything, as long as the ECL doesn't exceed 20

Classes: Any class with spell progression up to 9th level spells (or spells by another name, such as Psion Powers). PrCs count, as long as there are enough levels that boost casting to reach 9th level spells by Character Level 20.

Other than those stipulations, I can't think of much else, except that you should show how you got your modifier up so high. I don't mind if you get cheesey with it, since this whole thing is meant to be ridiculous anyway. Just don't go deliberately misinterpreting the rules when creative interpretation will suffice.

EDIT: Whoops! Forgot point-buy! Use 32 PB.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Top of my head; marital study can get balance as a permanent class skill, combined with item familiar makes +46 then buy or craft (probably craft) a +30 competence item makes +76. If you don't mind a CL, exemplar can let you take 10 under all circumstances for a very reliable 86.

I'm sure someone can beat that since that was right off the top of my head and I didn't even account for dex yet.

[Nifft]

Top of my head; marital study can get balance as a permanent class skill, combined with item familiar makes +46 then buy or craft (probably craft) a +30 competence item makes +76. If you don't mind a CL, exemplar can let you take 10 under all circumstances for a very reliable 86.

I'm sure someone can beat that since that was right off the top of my head and I didn't even account for dex yet.

That's a solid baseline, but I'll note that everything mentioned herein would be equally available to non-casters.

[Bucky]

Is 'nigh infinite' disallowed?

[TalonOfAnathrax]

Do all that but be an Unseen Seer. Take the item familiar, then use Polymorph to get into a form with crazy balance modifiers, and then use your Unseen Seer spells learnt to get Cleric skill buffs on top of that.

[Kelb_Panthera]

That's a solid baseline, but I'll note that everything mentioned herein would be equally available to non-casters.

Yes. And? I'm not seeing the problem beyond me forgetting he said casting classes only when I suggested the exemplar level. Still, +76 is nothing to sneeze at. That's enough to balance on a hair-thin object with no check and if we can squeeze in another 13 points then you can walk on water.

[Aharon]

Top of my head; marital study can get balance as a permanent class skill, combined with item familiar makes +46 then buy or craft (probably craft) a +30 competence item makes +76. If you don't mind a CL, exemplar can let you take 10 under all circumstances for a very reliable 86.

I'm sure someone can beat that since that was right off the top of my head and I didn't even account for dex yet.

Wow, marriage really is a balancing act :smallbiggrin:

[Kelb_Panthera]

Wow, marriage really is a balancing act :smallbiggrin:

Bah. Bloody auto-correct.

[Rebel7284]

Human Archivist 5/Hathran 4/X 11

Feats:
1: Magical Training
Human: Alternative Source Spell
Location: Iron Will
3: Ethran
6: Earth Sense
9: Heighten Spell
12: Earth Spell
15: Reserves of Strength


Spells:
Consumptive Field
Guidance of the Avatar (Web): +20
Divine Insight (Spell Compendium): +18 (reserves, conservative reading)
Improvisation: +1/2 CL

Items:
There are dozens of various items that increase caster level.
Beads of Karma and Ankh of Ascension certainly need to be on the list though

Between circle magic setting your caster level to 40 and a bunch of items/spells boosting it to 60-70 before applying consumptive field, your Improvisation (from Divine Bard) will be getting you at least +50 bonus.

[King of Nowhere]

Top of my head; marital study can get balance as a permanent class skill, combined with item familiar makes +46 then buy or craft (probably craft) a +30 competence item makes +76. If you don't mind a CL, exemplar can let you take 10 under all circumstances for a very reliable 86.

I'm sure someone can beat that since that was right off the top of my head and I didn't even account for dex yet.

don't forget you can also get a 20 base DEX as an elf or halfling, +5 for level, +5 for wish, +6 for item, for a DEX modifier of +13. Add in skill focus (balance) and the other +2 feat, you get another +5, so you end up at +94.

Then you can use moment of prescience to get a +25 to a single skill check, so you reach +119. Other spells I know to buff all use the insight bonus, so not cumulative.

There is a spell in spell compendium that gives up to +10 to DEX, don't remember the name. that replaces the +6 from item for another +2, so you get +121

[Bucky]

Amateurs :smallwink:.

Greater Consumptive Field (CL 20) -> Summon Regal Procession (CL 20) -> Wall of Fire (CL 40) -> Summon Regal Procession (CL 40) -> Widened Greater Consumptive Field (CL 80) -> dismiss original GCF -> Summon Regal procession a bunch of times (20 should do the trick) as the exponentially increasing horde of ponies runs into the wall of fire to be eaten by the WGCF -> recast Wall of Fire as you wait for the stragglers to finish pouring in -> Reserves of Strength Moment of Prescience -> wait out stun timer -> attempt balance check with about a +400,000 insight bonus.

[unseenmage]

So I dont want to make a new thread but I find myself suddenly curious...

How many full casters can we balance on the head of a pin?

With the Balance modifiers in this thread one imagines the eventual Str checks would be the limiting factor, right?

[BowStreetRunner]

So I dont want to make a new thread but I find myself suddenly curious...

How many full casters can we balance on the head of a pin?

With the Balance modifiers in this thread one imagines the eventual Str checks would be the limiting factor, right?
So if you shrink your casters as small as Fine, and enlarge the pin to Colossal size. You can put ethereal casters on the same spot as casters who aren't ethereal. Do the casters have to be all touching the pin directly, or can you stack casters?

[Silva Stormrage]

So if you shrink your casters as small as Fine, and enlarge the pin to Colossal size. You can put ethereal casters on the same spot as casters who aren't ethereal. Do the casters have to be all touching the pin directly, or can you stack casters?

Can't incorporeal creatures stack themselves on the same square as themselves? If so the answer is infinite.

Likewise does fusion (The psionic power) count for two casters?

[NerdHut]

I'm loving this. I'm so glad I brought it up. Keep up the great work, these insane modifiers are fantastic.

[ericgrau]

Relevant DCs: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#balance

So head of pin would be DC 60. Note with these modifiers you can walk on water, thin branches, cobwebs, clouds, etc., etc.. So now casters can hang out on clouds, make bridges out of string, etc.

[Thirdtwin]

I was expecting this topic to take the form of "Casters have to make a Balance check with (supposedly punitive DC) every time they want to cast spells," but my expectations have been defied in a good way.

[unseenmage]

So if you shrink your casters as small as Fine, and enlarge the pin to Colossal size. You can put ethereal casters on the same spot as casters who aren't ethereal. Do the casters have to be all touching the pin directly, or can you stack casters?

I was imagining a physical stacking up of casters on a fine size pin head but a colossal pin and fine ethereal casters works too.

[ericgrau]

As long as the casters are untyped, you can stack them.

[unseenmage]

As long as the casters are untyped, you can stack them.

Earned a genuine lol from me after a 12 hr shift so thanks a lot.

[gkathellar]

As long as the casters are untyped, you can stack them.

I'm sure some day I'll stop laughing.

[Deophaun]

Arbitrarily high due to CL boosting and improvisation.