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thisdude9001
2019-12-16, 08:18 PM
Nice, thanks for the votes people.

nickl_2000
2019-12-16, 09:20 PM
Congratulations all!

sengmeng
2019-12-17, 03:39 PM
Wow, I guess the Path of Valhalla is done. PEACH.

Damon_Tor
2019-12-17, 05:55 PM
Wow, I guess the Path of Valhalla is done. PEACH.

Looks great. I kind of wish there were more options besides Thor and Loki for rage effects though: I would think Tyr and Heimdall would be great options as well, with a focus on sacrifice and perception respectively.

And while I understand that fire is an aspect of Loki, I don't find it central to him, certainly not to the point where I think casting fireballs is the way to go. I'd much rather see illusion spells and similar effects: mirror image would be a very effective addition to a barbarian's defenses while being more on theme for Loki in general. Abilities which trick an enemy into targeting the barbarian instead of an ally with an attack would work well. Fire as the added damage type on the attacks while raging is enough of a callout to it being "his element", while flinging fireballs just doesn't feel right.

sengmeng
2019-12-17, 07:34 PM
Looks great. I kind of wish there were more options besides Thor and Loki for rage effects though: I would think Tyr and Heimdall would be great options as well, with a focus on sacrifice and perception respectively.

And while I understand that fire is an aspect of Loki, I don't find it central to him, certainly not to the point where I think casting fireballs is the way to go. I'd much rather see illusion spells and similar effects: mirror image would be a very effective addition to a barbarian's defenses while being more on theme for Loki in general. Abilities which trick an enemy into targeting the barbarian instead of an ally with an attack would work well. Fire as the added damage type on the attacks while raging is enough of a callout to it being "his element", while flinging fireballs just doesn't feel right.

Good points. I was planning on fleshing out the Norse pantheon a bit more. Those are good suggestions.

Edit: added Watcher's Rage and Rebuker's Rage for Heimdall and Tyr, respectively.

Looked at the College of Fellowship and I like it a lot mechanically. I'm a sucker for unusual swarms and I feel this was well-done, and should create interesting tactical situations when you join and leave the mob. It's a little creepy in concept; seems more like brainwashing and reminiscent of the Pied Piper, but at the same time, rabid music fans do come off that way in real life. I have no real suggestions. I'd probably play this subclass. Well done!

Nicrosil
2019-12-18, 03:10 PM
I have returned from the grave with the Sommelier artificer specialty. Get your foes drunk and then punch them in the gut! Brews, bruise... there's a pun to be made there somewhere.

Phhase
2019-12-19, 12:45 AM
Way of the Iron Cask is up. It's gross and dumb and stupid and I love it. PEACH! Reviews coming soon.

Damon_Tor
2019-12-19, 01:37 PM
Edit: added Watcher's Rage and Rebuker's Rage for Heimdall and Tyr, respectively.

Looks great. All I have remaining are a few quibbles about wording, rules interactions and maybe some complexity issues here and there.

Rebuker's rage has some ambiguous wording: if the damage is healed has it been "negated?" Does it heal whoever you damaged? You could just as easily say the damage cannot be reduced or resisted to reduce complexity.

I like where you went with tricksters rage at 10th level, and hellish rebuke is a great addition I hadn't thought of. But invisibility doesn't play well with rage's "attack or be attacked" rules. It fits the Loki theme, but not the class mechanics. Blur would be a better fit.

I don't think your note at the end is necessary: you're still limited to upgrading your rage once per short rest, and I don't think many tables take 6 short rests a day.


Looked at the College of Fellowship and I like it a lot mechanically. I'm a sucker for unusual swarms and I feel this was well-done, and should create interesting tactical situations when you join and leave the mob. It's a little creepy in concept; seems more like brainwashing and reminiscent of the Pied Piper, but at the same time, rabid music fans do come off that way in real life. I have no real suggestions. I'd probably play this subclass. Well done!

I'm glad you like it. Yes, the subclass certainly borders on some dark themes regarding free will and agency. But then again, it's not like the game doesn't already include questionable content in that regard. Conjure Woodland Creatures, for example, summons intelligent beings that are forced into your service. At least a fellowship bard has to take his posse out for some drinks first!

sengmeng
2019-12-20, 07:01 AM
Looks great. All I have remaining are a few quibbles about wording, rules interactions and maybe some complexity issues here and there.

Rebuker's rage has some ambiguous wording: if the damage is healed has it been "negated?" Does it heal whoever you damaged? You could just as easily say the damage cannot be reduced or resisted to reduce complexity.

I like where you went with tricksters rage at 10th level, and hellish rebuke is a great addition I hadn't thought of. But invisibility doesn't play well with rage's "attack or be attacked" rules. It fits the Loki theme, but not the class mechanics. Blur would be a better fit.

I don't think your note at the end is necessary: you're still limited to upgrading your rage once per short rest, and I don't think many tables take 6 short rests a day.

I made the suggested change to Rebuker's Rage, and I think you're right about the note. The Invisibility I'm keeping, though. That and the ability to see Invisibility from Watcher's Rage give a tiny shred of utility to the desperately one trick pony that is the barbarian in general. If they want to burn 2 rages to use these functions, I wouldn't stand in their way. Besides, in the rare case they might wish to retreat, Invisibility would let them do so.

KragBrightscale
2019-12-20, 07:24 AM
Alright! Iíve added my Druid subclass ďcircle of the great feastĒ to the competition.

First submission for such a competition, so Iím hoping for some PEACH, at least of what I currently have up

nickl_2000
2019-12-20, 07:29 AM
Alright! Iíve added my Druid subclass ďcircle of the great feastĒ to the competition.

First submission for such a competition, so Iím hoping for some PEACH, at least of what I currently have up

Welcome to the party. I will definitely take a look at yours and the others once I figure out a first draft of my entry :)

AdAstra
2019-12-20, 07:39 AM
Okay finally added some description to my Spirits Domain. Didn't have any fancy ideas, so I just focused on the mechanics, which I hope are interesting and useable.

nickl_2000
2019-12-20, 09:00 AM
First draft of the Rogue Tavern Wench is up and available.

KragBrightscale
2019-12-20, 10:12 AM
Okay finally added some description to my Spirits Domain. Didn't have any fancy ideas, so I just focused on the mechanics, which I hope are interesting and useable.

Definitely an improvement from your earlier version. Feels more fleshed out

The 1d4 subtracted from an attack and added to defense, thatís an interesting idea and would be especially useful Iíd imagine on characters who have high bonuses or advantage on attack rolls and benefit from the added AC (barbarian reckless attack? Seems like a natural combo)

Miraculous proof, while likely able to result in a lot of fun situations rp-wise, I think it could have more to it. Benefits of consumption, effect on undead, charms those who drink it, loosening their tongues etc... itís got potential

Iím not too experienced with homebrewing so Iíll let others check the numbers

AdAstra
2019-12-20, 10:39 AM
Definitely an improvement from your earlier version. Feels more fleshed out

The 1d4 subtracted from an attack and added to defense, thatís an interesting idea and would be especially useful Iíd imagine on characters who have high bonuses or advantage on attack rolls and benefit from the added AC (barbarian reckless attack? Seems like a natural combo)

Miraculous proof, while likely able to result in a lot of fun situations rp-wise, I think it could have more to it. Benefits of consumption, effect on undead, charms those who drink it, loosening their tongues etc... itís got potential

Iím not too experienced with homebrewing so Iíll let others check the numbers

I wanted to keep the second channel divinity entirely confined to flavor, since there aren't many cleric domains that have two different CD options. I might add something, but if so it'll be pretty small.

Damon_Tor
2019-12-21, 11:27 AM
I really like the Tavern Wench more than I expected to. I think I would probably prefer it if it was expanded conceptually to something that could encompass a wider array of a tavern's denizens, but I get that would interfere with some of the humor.

I love the ability to use improvised weapons as proficient finesse weapons, that's freaking brilliant. And it goes great with their level 13 ability to throw acid and other liquids with a bonus action (since those are treated as improvised weapons).

Mechanically, the only issue I have is that the level 17 ability is extremely underwhelming. Rogue subclasses usually get something really excellent at level 17, usually something that improves their damage somehow (afaik, the mastermind is the only exception), disease immunity and con save advantage is unimpressive by comparison to its peers.

nickl_2000
2019-12-21, 01:33 PM
I really like the Tavern Wench more than I expected to. I think I would probably prefer it if it was expanded conceptually to something that could encompass a wider array of a tavern's denizens, but I get that would interfere with some of the humor.

I love the ability to use improvised weapons as proficient finesse weapons, that's freaking brilliant. And it goes great with their level 13 ability to throw acid and other liquids with a bonus action (since those are treated as improvised weapons).

Mechanically, the only issue I have is that the level 17 ability is extremely underwhelming. Rogue subclasses usually get something really excellent at level 17, usually something that improves their damage somehow (afaik, the mastermind is the only exception), disease immunity and con save advantage is unimpressive by comparison to its peers.

Thanks I really liked the fun and flavor, but struggled with the abilities

1) do too think it would be okay to make a unarmed strike finesse as well as improvised weapons? A good bar maid has a mighty slap.


2) how about this instead? assuming you can slap as a finesse weapon.


Keep your hands to yourself!
At level 17, you been there and done that. Frankly you are getting pretty tired of all the s**t from your patrons. When you are hit with an attack or grappled, may use your reaction to make an unarmed strike against your attacker. If you are successful in your hit, you also automatically break any grapples.
You may use this ability up to your dexterity modifier times or long rest.


I know it kind of breaks the mold being limited to resources, but a free reaction each round seemed like way too much

AdAstra
2019-12-21, 03:53 PM
Thanks I really liked the fun and flavor, but struggled with the abilities

1) do too think it would be okay to make a unarmed strike finesse as well as improvised weapons? A good bar maid has a mighty slap.


2) how about this instead? assuming you can slap as a finesse weapon.


Keep your hands to yourself!
At level 17, you been there and done that. Frankly you are getting pretty tired of all the s**t from your patrons. When you are hit with an attack or grappled, may use your reaction to make an unarmed strike against your attacker. If you are successful in your hit, you also automatically break any grapples.
You may use this ability up to your dexterity modifier times or long rest.


I know it kind of breaks the mold being limited to resources, but a free reaction each round seemed like way too much

Even if it was at-will, it wouldnít be totally insane as a 17th level ability. Even with Sneak Attack, your damage will be lower than using a weapon, and you still need to fulfill the requirements of SA. As an example, Scout gets a free bonus action attack that can trigger an extra Sneak Attack (it canít be against the same target, but still) allowing them to theoretically get three SAs a round (Action, bonus action, reaction with something like Sentinel or Battlemasterís Riposte). The ability as-written (with the limit) is decently powerful without breaking anything, and is also very fun. Love the idea of a barmaid slapping a dragon out of the sky.

nickl_2000
2019-12-21, 04:01 PM
Even if it was at-will, it wouldnít be totally insane as a 17th level ability. Even with Sneak Attack, your damage will be lower than using a weapon, and you still need to fulfill the requirements of SA. As an example, Scout gets a free bonus action attack that can trigger an extra Sneak Attack (it canít be against the same target, but still) allowing them to theoretically get three SAs a round (Action, bonus action, reaction with something like Sentinel or Battlemasterís Riposte). The ability as-written (with the limit) is decently powerful without breaking anything, and is also very fun. Love the idea of a barmaid slapping a dragon out of the sky.

Alright, you convinced me :)

Slap whoever it is silly at will as a reaction. The nice thing is that it competes with uncanny dodge as well.

Damon_Tor
2019-12-21, 04:06 PM
Thanks I really liked the fun and flavor, but struggled with the abilities

1) do too think it would be okay to make a unarmed strike finesse as well as improvised weapons? A good bar maid has a mighty slap.


2) how about this instead? assuming you can slap as a finesse weapon.


Keep your hands to yourself!
At level 17, you been there and done that. Frankly you are getting pretty tired of all the s**t from your patrons. When you are hit with an attack or grappled, may use your reaction to make an unarmed strike against your attacker. If you are successful in your hit, you also automatically break any grapples.
You may use this ability up to your dexterity modifier times or long rest.


I know it kind of breaks the mold being limited to resources, but a free reaction each round seemed like way too much

I would worry about stepping on monk's toes.

If it were me, I'd double down on hitting people with bottles. When you allow for bonus action liquid attacks also introduce the ability to apply the poisoned condition to a guy you hit with a bottle of booze, then at level 17 increase the damage you deal to poisoned creatures. It would give you a one-two punch that would be pretty effective, and would have some defensive benefits as well. It would be inherently limited because you would have to stay stocked up on liquor.

nickl_2000
2019-12-21, 04:16 PM
You will have to excuse my formatting, Iím writing this on my phone when I have time to get one in

Bardic College of the Wassailer
Level 3, this feels a little bit of an edge case to me. Itís a fun effect overall and pretty powerful, but if you are out adventuring or dungeon crawling you may not be able to use this every day.

Also, itís very typical to give bonus profs at level 3 for a bard, or at least two abilities. I would add something else.


Level 6: how do you choose who is immune to winter effects? When is that choice made?

Level 14: this has the same issue I have with the level 3 ability. When out in the wilderness, you may not be able to do it at all and will lose out on a major subclass feature.


Overall, the flavor is really fun and interesting. Very thematic to the time it was written and would make a fun subclass to play other than the issues I mentioned above.

nickl_2000
2019-12-30, 10:43 AM
Time for more reviews now that the holiday season is over.


Domain Spells - Shatter seems a little bit off to me, but otherwise it seems good.

Channel divinity What happens is someone if blind or doesn't have eyes? Balance wise it seems good though. An effective ability that isn't to powerful, but is certainly useful.

Heart of an oxen - I wouldn't mind seeing the temporary hit points raise as you go. Whether it's you gain your level in temp HP or something else, 2d6 HP at level 20 is nice, but it would barely last a single hit.

Life of the Party - So, this is really, really powerful on a Warlock or Monk. As it is written, you could refresh their Ki or spells multiple times in a single battle. I think it works fine if you put in a rider that says it can only be used on someone once per long rest or something to that effect.






Drunkard's Luck - What is the damage type of this when it is added? The weapon damage type?

Channel Divinity: Miraculous Proof - Is this also at 2nd level?

Spirit Haze - how often can this be used?






Wrath of the Gods - Is there an action cost to enter a higher rage? Or when you rage, you can choose to super rage instead?

Rebuker's Rage - This feels off to me for some reason. I guess since you are hitting this at level 3 you could easily kill yourself within 3-4 rounds just by hitting other people. I'm not sure what the solution is though, since you are adding significant damage to each hit there needs to be some drawback.

Sacred Mead - When you take a short rest and use a hit dice, you already get your Con bonus added to the amount of HP healed. So, if the intent is that you get 2x your con bonus, you probably should spell that out more clearly.

Drunken Rage - Probably a typo, but you don't mention the rebukers rage when you give the first information.

All-Father's Blessing - This is interesting, and really, really flipping powerful. The easiest way to drop a barbarian is to hold/suggestion/some spell that targets wisdom. You are effectively shutting this ability down completely for the combat. It seems like to much to give a blanket protection against these. Additionally, it adds some odd complications with concentration mechanics. What happens is a baddie casts hold person on the barbarian and the barbarian defers it. Does the baddie still have to hold concentration or not?







Before anything else, I have to say that I absolutely adore this line "their fear and incompetence overwhelming their desire to please you"

So, while the mob is cool at level 3, I think you need something else at level 3. Some bonus proficiency, some other smaller ability, something. It feels spares compared to the other bard subclasses, especially since you get nothing for combat at all (or a use for bardic inspiration).

The Mob - There is a lot of flavor in making the mob get together, but I think it's an over-complication that would slow down combat. It would be way easier if they just gathered when initiative was rolled.

The mob is a pretty fun mechanic, but I think you need something more to this subclass. If they get killed off, you are toast since you have nothing left. An extra use of inspiration, some extra abilities. Something.







Doing my best here, but take my comments with a grain of salt since I'm not an expert with Artificer at all. This is all going to be gut feelings.

Inebriated Confidant - At the end of the hour, does the target know you charmed it?

Sickening Blow - This seems really, really powerful. Not the damage, that's fine, but the poisoned condition is actually pretty brutal. Additionally since you can do it every single round it makes it even worse. I think you need some sort of limiter on there that "if a creature succeeds on a saving throw against the poisoned condition, it cannot be poisoned by this ability for 24 hours).

Also, 3 abilities at level 3 seems to be a bit front loaded to me.






Synthesize - This feels to weak having to spend an action, ki, and a your tank to get 2x level temp HP for a single round. I feel like they should last longer to make it worth the investment. Maybe a minute, maybe a number of rounds equal to your con mod, something to make it last longer.

Exude - Viscous and exude seems like an odd combination. They are knocked back 10 feet and are grappled? How does that work exactly?






Drunken gait - Not that it matters much, but there isn't an AC dodge bonus in 5th edition (or magical, or shield, or any other type for that matter). So, there is no need to say it, it may confuse some people.

Brewmaster - How many uses do you get out of each brew? You mentioned that the druid can take a swig, doesn't that use up the brew completely, or does it have multiple uses? If it's single use, then I would remove that to simplify the wording somewhat.

Medicinal mead - restored 1d4 + half level of druid hit points?

party animal - The first part of this is completely unnecessary. When a Druid wildshapes, they keep their class features (other than being able to cast spells). So, they would already be able to use this feature prior to level 10. So, you can certainly enhance this ability fairly significantly.

Free spirited - This feels kind of weak for a capstone to me. Admittedly, druid capstones are weaker, but the least you could do is make it so you can cast it concentration free. That would be something at least.







First things first, tongue in cheek is perfectly fine. My first entry was a Pinball Wizard (based on The Who's rock opera Tommy) and I made a barbarian who was a tool user with an ability called "percussive maintenance" (effectively raging and beating things with tools until they were crafted).

Oath Spells:
Why are you giving Spirit Guardians? This seems like a huge boon to a Paladin and doesn't really fit into the theme that I can tell. Bestow Curse, Remove Curse, Create Food and Water, Stinking Cloud, and Slow seem like they would fit to me.

Turn the Civilized - Alright, I find this ability flat out hilarious.

Aura of Disgust - How does this work with casters? Do they cast against you or do they attack? Honestly, I'm not sure I'm a fan of this ability since you can't turn it off. While a Paladin is a tank and wants to be the focus of attacks, making it required that all bad guys attack you all the time is pretty brutal. How does this Paladin escape when they are being downed? I would re-consider it to be something else, that could be the same name even. You could do something where enemies needs to make a save or be poisoned for 1 round (on a successful save, they are immune).

Toxic Cleansing - Woah... that is a lot of HP. At 15th level that is 75 extra hit points that are gained per short rest (so 225 HP on an average adventuring day). Also, it's a little bit odd to tie a 15th level ability to a channel divinity. I would consider making it a once per long rest ability that isn't tied to Turn the Civilized.

Inured to Death - This is really powerful as well, on the other hand a level 20 ability is supposed to be. I am not a huge fan of this ability in the Zealot barbarian, but that is more a person issue rather than a balance issue.


Overall it's a good subclass. There is a lot of good flavor, but some of the abilities need to be tightened up or modified.

Damon_Tor
2019-12-30, 01:33 PM
Before anything else, I have to say that I absolutely adore this line "their fear and incompetence overwhelming their desire to please you"

So, while the mob is cool at level 3, I think you need something else at level 3. Some bonus proficiency, some other smaller ability, something. It feels spares compared to the other bard subclasses, especially since you get nothing for combat at all (or a use for bardic inspiration).

The Mob - There is a lot of flavor in making the mob get together, but I think it's an over-complication that would slow down combat. It would be way easier if they just gathered when initiative was rolled.

The mob is a pretty fun mechanic, but I think you need something more to this subclass. If they get killed off, you are toast since you have nothing left. An extra use of inspiration, some extra abilities. Something.


Thanks for the feedback.

Point taken on level 3 offering nothing for combat. I'll give some thought into what might be appropriate. I'm thinking something that will add some flexibility to Inspiration use without actually adding much power, maybe something there Bardic Inspiration can be expended as a reaction on another creature's behalf. So if you inspire the Wizard but it's the Fighter that turns out to have a better use for it, the Wizard can use a reaction to pass the inspiration to the Fighter. Fits the theme of fellowship and group-bonding while not relying on the followers.

As for the followers joining to become a mob, I'm walking a bit of a line there. 90% of the time I expect the mob will coalesce right as initiative is rolled and it won't be an issue, and another 9% of the time when there's a straggler or two their first and only turn will consist of nothing but "and these guys move 60 feet and are now a part of the mob" and it won't be an issue, because really how often would they be more than 90 feet away from each other when combat begins? I expect that it would only be under very unusual situations where a follower will spend more than one turn apart from the mob, and I think in most of those scenarios it would be because the follower has been sent far enough away that you won't need to worry about it at all. And the alternative is things like followers teleporting from 50 miles away (where you've sent them to run back to town and buy provisions or something), or phasing through jail cells to form up. Neither is inherently bad, magic is magic after all, but as a passive feature that uses no spell slots or anything of the sort, it seems like those effects would bend the credibility of what sorts of things magic should be able to accomplish.

As for the followers/mob being the subclasses' only feature, you aren't wrong about that, but in general bard subclasses have rather mild features, because the bard chassis is so solid. So there's just not a whole lot of room to work with without taking things further above the power curve than I'm comfortable with. I'll work on the additional 3rd level ability, hopefully it should alleviate some of those concerns.

AdAstra
2019-12-30, 04:57 PM
Time for more reviews now that the holiday season is over.


Domain Spells - Shatter seems a little bit off to me, but otherwise it seems good.

Channel divinity What happens is someone if blind or doesn't have eyes? Balance wise it seems good though. An effective ability that isn't to powerful, but is certainly useful.

Heart of an oxen - I wouldn't mind seeing the temporary hit points raise as you go. Whether it's you gain your level in temp HP or something else, 2d6 HP at level 20 is nice, but it would barely last a single hit.

Life of the Party - So, this is really, really powerful on a Warlock or Monk. As it is written, you could refresh their Ki or spells multiple times in a single battle. I think it works fine if you put in a rider that says it can only be used on someone once per long rest or something to that effect.






Drunkard's Luck - What is the damage type of this when it is added? The weapon damage type?

Channel Divinity: Miraculous Proof - Is this also at 2nd level?

Spirit Haze - how often can this be used?






Wrath of the Gods - Is there an action cost to enter a higher rage? Or when you rage, you can choose to super rage instead?

Rebuker's Rage - This feels off to me for some reason. I guess since you are hitting this at level 3 you could easily kill yourself within 3-4 rounds just by hitting other people. I'm not sure what the solution is though, since you are adding significant damage to each hit there needs to be some drawback.

Sacred Mead - When you take a short rest and use a hit dice, you already get your Con bonus added to the amount of HP healed. So, if the intent is that you get 2x your con bonus, you probably should spell that out more clearly.

Drunken Rage - Probably a typo, but you don't mention the rebukers rage when you give the first information.

All-Father's Blessing - This is interesting, and really, really flipping powerful. The easiest way to drop a barbarian is to hold/suggestion/some spell that targets wisdom. You are effectively shutting this ability down completely for the combat. It seems like to much to give a blanket protection against these. Additionally, it adds some odd complications with concentration mechanics. What happens is a baddie casts hold person on the barbarian and the barbarian defers it. Does the baddie still have to hold concentration or not?







Before anything else, I have to say that I absolutely adore this line "their fear and incompetence overwhelming their desire to please you"

So, while the mob is cool at level 3, I think you need something else at level 3. Some bonus proficiency, some other smaller ability, something. It feels spares compared to the other bard subclasses, especially since you get nothing for combat at all (or a use for bardic inspiration).

The Mob - There is a lot of flavor in making the mob get together, but I think it's an over-complication that would slow down combat. It would be way easier if they just gathered when initiative was rolled.

The mob is a pretty fun mechanic, but I think you need something more to this subclass. If they get killed off, you are toast since you have nothing left. An extra use of inspiration, some extra abilities. Something.







Doing my best here, but take my comments with a grain of salt since I'm not an expert with Artificer at all. This is all going to be gut feelings.

Inebriated Confidant - At the end of the hour, does the target know you charmed it?

Sickening Blow - This seems really, really powerful. Not the damage, that's fine, but the poisoned condition is actually pretty brutal. Additionally since you can do it every single round it makes it even worse. I think you need some sort of limiter on there that "if a creature succeeds on a saving throw against the poisoned condition, it cannot be poisoned by this ability for 24 hours).

Also, 3 abilities at level 3 seems to be a bit front loaded to me.






Synthesize - This feels to weak having to spend an action, ki, and a your tank to get 2x level temp HP for a single round. I feel like they should last longer to make it worth the investment. Maybe a minute, maybe a number of rounds equal to your con mod, something to make it last longer.

Exude - Viscous and exude seems like an odd combination. They are knocked back 10 feet and are grappled? How does that work exactly?






Drunken gait - Not that it matters much, but there isn't an AC dodge bonus in 5th edition (or magical, or shield, or any other type for that matter). So, there is no need to say it, it may confuse some people.

Brewmaster - How many uses do you get out of each brew? You mentioned that the druid can take a swig, doesn't that use up the brew completely, or does it have multiple uses? If it's single use, then I would remove that to simplify the wording somewhat.

Medicinal mead - restored 1d4 + half level of druid hit points?

party animal - The first part of this is completely unnecessary. When a Druid wildshapes, they keep their class features (other than being able to cast spells). So, they would already be able to use this feature prior to level 10. So, you can certainly enhance this ability fairly significantly.

Free spirited - This feels kind of weak for a capstone to me. Admittedly, druid capstones are weaker, but the least you could do is make it so you can cast it concentration free. That would be something at least.







First things first, tongue in cheek is perfectly fine. My first entry was a Pinball Wizard (based on The Who's rock opera Tommy) and I made a barbarian who was a tool user with an ability called "percussive maintenance" (effectively raging and beating things with tools until they were crafted).

Oath Spells:
Why are you giving Spirit Guardians? This seems like a huge boon to a Paladin and doesn't really fit into the theme that I can tell. Bestow Curse, Remove Curse, Create Food and Water, Stinking Cloud, and Slow seem like they would fit to me.

Turn the Civilized - Alright, I find this ability flat out hilarious.

Aura of Disgust - How does this work with casters? Do they cast against you or do they attack? Honestly, I'm not sure I'm a fan of this ability since you can't turn it off. While a Paladin is a tank and wants to be the focus of attacks, making it required that all bad guys attack you all the time is pretty brutal. How does this Paladin escape when they are being downed? I would re-consider it to be something else, that could be the same name even. You could do something where enemies needs to make a save or be poisoned for 1 round (on a successful save, they are immune).

Toxic Cleansing - Woah... that is a lot of HP. At 15th level that is 75 extra hit points that are gained per short rest (so 225 HP on an average adventuring day). Also, it's a little bit odd to tie a 15th level ability to a channel divinity. I would consider making it a once per long rest ability that isn't tied to Turn the Civilized.

Inured to Death - This is really powerful as well, on the other hand a level 20 ability is supposed to be. I am not a huge fan of this ability in the Zealot barbarian, but that is more a person issue rather than a balance issue.


Overall it's a good subclass. There is a lot of good flavor, but some of the abilities need to be tightened up or modified.



Since itís added to the damage roll, it would do the same damage type as the attack. Since itís the result and not the die itself being added/subtracted, itís also not doubled by a crit.

Yes. Iíll change the wording to make that clear

Itís intended to be at-will like the Light Clericís aura. I might change it to make a it a bit more of a tradeoff.

Damon_Tor
2020-01-05, 05:32 AM
Added the following ability to the College of Fellowship:


Strength in Numbers
Also at third level, you inspire unity among your comrades in arms. A creature that has a Bardic Inspiration die from you can roll that die when it takes damage: instead of that creature taking the damage alone, the damage is divided between that creature and a number of other willing creatures within 30 feet of it, which cannot exceed the number rolled on the Bardic Inspiration die. The damage is divided as that creature wishes, but must be divided as evenly as possible.

nickl_2000
2020-01-05, 10:11 AM
Added the following ability to the College of Fellowship:


Strength in Numbers
Also at third level, you inspire unity among your comrades in arms. A creature that has a Bardic Inspiration die from you can roll that die when it takes damage: instead of that creature taking the damage alone, the damage is divided between that creature and a number of other willing creatures within 30 feet of it, which cannot exceed the number rolled on the Bardic Inspiration die. The damage is divided as that creature wishes, but must be divided as evenly as possible.

This isnít bad, a nice new use of inspiration.

So, I have a die and get hit for 25 damage. Roll the die and get a four. Now instead of me taking 25 damage, my 4 willing ally friends and I each take 5 damage?

Damon_Tor
2020-01-05, 07:31 PM
This isnít bad, a nice new use of inspiration.

So, I have a die and get hit for 25 damage. Roll the die and get a four. Now instead of me taking 25 damage, my 4 willing ally friends and I each take 5 damage?

Correct, yes.

I went ahead and added an example of how this works in my Q&A section as well.

MoleMage
2020-01-08, 11:54 PM
Not as detailed as I'd like to do, but some small feedback for everyone here.


Why does Center of Attention give advantage on Constitution saving throws? The damage resistance I can see, but Con saves feel out of place.

Heart of an Oxen: Most resistance features just give resistance, even if you already have resistance to that thing.

Life of the Party: I don't have a good point of comparison for this, but it seems too strong. If there's a Warlock around, the cleric can easily trade one 6th level slot out for 4 5th level slots.



Drunkard's Luck (Defensive version) is fine, but I think the damage output is a little too high for the offensive usage.

Miraculous Proof seems like it should be on its own use limitation rather than the Channel Divinity limitation; Channel Divinity usually has direct combat application in some manner. If you switch Drunkard's Luck to a Channel Divinity feature and Miraculous Proof to its own I think it would work better.

Inebriation is an odd effect. Definitely like it though. Same with Spirit Haze




Just all around like this. Only concern is that All-Father's Blessing references Sacred Mead but seems to have nothing to do with it.





Do non-mob commoners still have HP? Can they be killed in battle? Other than that, it's a well-done class. The mob rules are solid and it looks fun.





I'll be honest I don't have the book with Artificer yet so my only point of reference is the old playtest rules

Inebriated Confidant seems fun.
Sickening Blow feels like it should have a usage limitation. Do Artificers normally get a bonus action damage feature?
Nauseating Strike continues to build Sickening Blow. That seems like a lot of damage and riders for one bonus action.



Bar brawling isn't always about the patrons, eh?

Each of the features here seems to build on a theme without actually being mechanically related to one another, which is pretty cool. It gives the rogue a lot of options in combat, where they normally lack variety. Good job.




Is Acrid Furnace both a passive and active feature? As in you can always eat anything, but you can only rapidly consume something a number of times per long rest?
Synthesize temp HP does not last long enough to be worth it IMO. The foci are also a little complicated (I like complicated, but it's not necessarily a common opinion).
Bring Me More is odd. Why not a short rest, since they normally replenish on a long? I also don't really see it as a combat feature unlike Ki or Bardic Inspiration so initiative is doubly odd as a trigger.





Why not give both brewing tools and musical instrument at 2? Those are relatively minor proficiencies.

Drunken Gait is cool.

Brewmaster only has two effects but they seem fine.

Wild shape is the name of the transformation druid feature, not beast shape. Also, unless otherwise specified, class features are retained in animal form by default (Drunken Gait's benefits should already apply to animal shapes).

Free Spirited: Supernatural abilities are not a thing anylonger in 5e. The wording would be "cast [spell] without consuming a spell slot or requiring material or somatic components" or something to that effect.





Turn the Civilized needs a duration. Also...gross (but thematic).
Aura of Disgust should allow them to ignore the effect by some means (disadvantage attacking other people, lowered damage against other people, something to that effect).
Inured to Death is a good capstone, but its wording could be cleaned up a bit.



I'll also be making some last minute adjustments to College of the Wassailer later this week or possibly this weekend just before deadline.

Damon_Tor
2020-01-11, 01:25 AM
[SPOILER=College of Fellowship]

Do non-mob commoners still have HP? Can they be killed in battle? Other than that, it's a well-done class. The mob rules are solid and it looks fun.

They do, they have 4 HP (and 10 AC) like any commoner, and they can die, though the fact that they just run and hide means I expect most DMs will ignore them. Before they can form a mob they're a purely out-of-combat resource, great for the social/exploration pillars simply because manpower can be so useful, but there's not a good reason an enemy with any sort of tactical intelligence would spend its time trying to pick off the guys running away when there are real credible threats on the battlefield.

Phhase
2020-01-12, 05:49 PM
Is Acrid Furnace both a passive and active feature? As in you can always eat anything, but you can only rapidly consume something a number of times per long rest?
Synthesize temp HP does not last long enough to be worth it IMO. The foci are also a little complicated (I like complicated, but it's not necessarily a common opinion).
Bring Me More is odd. Why not a short rest, since they normally replenish on a long? I also don't really see it as a combat feature unlike Ki or Bardic Inspiration so initiative is doubly odd as a trigger.




Yes, it's both. The active is there so that you can refill your Tank with an action while in combat (which is also why Bring Me More works that way). At the eleventh hour, I'm making the proper edits. Synthesize no longer had a blink-and-you'll-miss-it duration, and is stronger. With Viscous, it's like you hit someone hard with Iron Bands of Bilarro. They fly through the air with a gob of goo on them, then splat. Hard Synthesize now no longer makes you immune, instead grants DR. Hard Vomit now can critically strike instead of gaining range. Volatile Synthesize now creates a recoil shockwave instead. Volatile and Poison Vomit effects now last longer, as do the effects of Slippery and Viscous Vomit.

Viscous Synthesize now grapples things that hit you (Sticky!).

I am sorry I could not give feedback this time :smallfrown:. I will explain in my voting post.

MoleMage
2020-01-13, 11:54 AM
Contest time is up, voting time is now!

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?606404-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XIII-Voting-Thread&p=24351363#post24351363

MoleMage
2020-01-20, 06:21 PM
We are halfway through the voting period, and only four votes from 10 entries have been submitted. One of the six left is myself, but that still leaves five more votes floating free!

As to our current leader, nickl_2000's Tavern Wench has taken a strong early lead, followed by Damon_Tor's College of Fellowship. With so many votes still hopefully to come, it's definitely still possible to go any direction, though!

nickl_2000
2020-01-26, 07:15 PM
My votes:

1. College of Fellowship. I'm really impressed at how much you managed to do with the bard's miniscule subclass, and I also like minion classes in general.
2. Way of the Iron Cask. It's gross but also represents a character archetype that is reasonably common yet unrepresented so it got 2nd by that quality.
3. Tavern Wench. It's got a lot of fun stuff happening, as has become your style.

1. The Pen is Mightier
2. Make a Choice

This made me laugh some. I didnít realize I had a style :)

MoleMage
2020-01-28, 01:52 AM
I've been having trouble connecting to the forums for the past few days and I'm guessing that's happening to people in general, so I'm going to extend voting an extra week in case anyone was trying but unable to look at the entries or cast a vote. New deadline is Feb 3.

nickl_2000
2020-01-28, 07:30 AM
I've been having trouble connecting to the forums for the past few days and I'm guessing that's happening to people in general, so I'm going to extend voting an extra week in case anyone was trying but unable to look at the entries or cast a vote. New deadline is Feb 3.

You aren't the only one. It's everywhere

Damon_Tor
2020-01-28, 10:35 AM
I've been having trouble connecting to the forums for the past few days and I'm guessing that's happening to people in general, so I'm going to extend voting an extra week in case anyone was trying but unable to look at the entries or cast a vote. New deadline is Feb 3.

I'll confirm, there have been days when I haven't been able to connect at all. It's still really touchy.

nickl_2000
2020-02-22, 09:48 AM
I'll confirm, there have been days when I haven't been able to connect at all. It's still really touchy.

Looks like we are back finally. Molemage, how do you want to handle voting? Call it at this point of give until the end of the month for additional voting?

MoleMage
2020-02-22, 02:07 PM
Woo we are back online! I am extending voting until the end of the day March 1st, in part because we lost access during the last extension, in part because I need to recollect my bearings, and in part because I won't have access to a proper computer for another three days and I always try to end these things on a Sunday.

Man_Over_Game
2020-03-03, 01:39 PM
Remind me again, are we allowed to post a homebrew we've already created that fits the contest?

It seems the next contest is going to be one where you make a choice between two features, and I have one that'd fit perfectly, but I want to make sure it's within the rules to do so.

MoleMage
2020-03-03, 01:52 PM
Votes tallied, time to call it!

In 3rd place, with 9 points, we have those seekers of glorious death, sengmeng's barbarians on the Path to Valhalla! Channel the northern gods when you rage, and drink your devotion when you do pretty much anything!

In 2nd place, with 11 points, we have the rock stars of the fantasy realm, Damon_Tor's College of Fellowship! Stand for the common folk and let them stand for you. Organize your devotees into an attacking force!

Aaaaand in 1st place, with a staggering 18 points, we have that most iconic of supporting characters now taking the spotlight, it's nickl_2000's Tavern Wench! You handle the booze around here, and you've been dealing with uppity adventurers too long. Make sure everyone knows to watch their behavior!


As for themes, we had a clear breakaway in Make A Choice, and our runners-up were tied between Bigger is Better and The Pen is Mightier. Tiebreaker rules would put Bigger is Better ahead, but I'll just go ahead and include both in the next contest voting pool instead.

And we're ready to get the next contest up! Keep your eyes open for Contest XIV: Make a Choice!

And it's up here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?607867-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XIV-Make-a-Choice&p=24383141#post24383141

Damon_Tor
2020-03-06, 02:44 AM
Well I think I've got my Vestige Warlock (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?607867-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XIV-Make-a-Choice&p=24384550&viewfull=1#post24384550) solidly in "alpha" release. It's a sort of "build your own patron" system where you get to glue together three different not-quite-so-powerful mini-patrons and hopefully come up with something greater than the sum of their parts. It's more of a "caster" than other warlocks in that it doesn't have much in the way of defensive features, but instead his features are nearly exclusively short-rest limited powers which augment spells he casts, a sort of souped-up metamagic.

The vestiges' powers are deliberately made to be usable together in combination. Decisively win a Counterspell vs Counterspell battle with The Paradox so you can steal the BBEG's self-buff spell with The Lost then pass it on to an ally with The Regent or you can Dial an AoE damage spell up to 11 with The Void, The Ascendant and the Guardian.

I broke from tradition by not giving the vestiges names from the Lore: both the 3.5 Binder and the 4e Vestige Pact Warlock named each vestige, and I didn't really care for it. My preference was to name them after various mythic archetypes and make them totally setting-neutral.

RickAsWritten
2020-03-06, 01:01 PM
My entry is up. Sorcerous Origin: Fateweaver (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24387820&postcount=9).

Iím in the process of reading The Wheel of Time for the first time, so Iíve been getting a steady diet of Taíveren and the Pattern. This subclass is partially inspired by that series, as well as the Quantal and Marjal from Mark Lawerenceís Book of the Ancestor series. And also partially inspired by the three Fates of Greek mythology.

I'm happy with it overall, but I think it needs work/fine tuning. I find that I'm having a harder time gauging balance since the release of the Class Feature Variants UA. The added versatility definitely skews balance, but I'm not sure I've fully grasped the new "meta" for creating subclasses. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

RickAsWritten

saucerhead
2020-03-06, 01:41 PM
Well I have to say that Sub14 is off to a great start. You are all coming up with very interesting ideas. I have nothing at this point, and might end up sitting out this contest, but it looks to be a good one.

Good luck, and congrats to the winners of Sub13.

nickl_2000
2020-03-06, 01:47 PM
Well I have to say that Sub14 is off to a great start. You are all coming up with very interesting ideas. I have nothing at this point, and might end up sitting out this contest, but it looks to be a good one.

Good luck, and congrats to the winners of Sub13.

I'm in the same place as you, but we will see what my mind comes up with over the next few days

sengmeng
2020-03-06, 03:53 PM
Feedback:

Fighter Archetype: Olympian

I like this well enough. Would definitely allow it as a DM, but it's not super exciting. I do not know how to improve it. You gain all but one of the events by the time you complete this; are you looking for more suggestions for events to add? Also, it's a fighter. You can go wild and most people won't think it's overpowered. I'd say the shotput should require two hands (I never did it, but it looks that way) and should specify that you do or do not have proficiency for the attack. Discus needs a range as a whole new weapon, and why is it special? Special implies there's more rules to read to get what it does. Wrestling is by far my favorite for a character I would actually play. The jumping and running ones seem fine, if underwhelming. Decathlete is fine for the superhuman things that 18th level characters are supposed to do.

Warlock Patron: The Vestige
Looks like we had some pretty similar thoughts, I just did mine the lazy way. I like it. I suppose you're looking to expand the vestige list? It would be cool to have one for each skill, but maybe you don't want to hand them that much versatility, or just don't care to do it with the purely physical skills. Although, it's a warlock, so they can probably use all the utility they can get their hands on. So far, Athletics, Acrobatics, Handle Animal, Investigation, Peformance, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, and Survival are unrepresented. The Avatar A god that befell disaster due to his desire to physically manifest and walk with mortals. Grants Athletics.
The Rider Basically Ghost Rider. Grants Animal Handling.
The Lorekeeper Similar to mages who ascended via magic, the lorekeeper rooted out some secrets that were not meant to be known. Grants Investigation.
The Crossroads Where mortals go to barter their souls for skill in song. Grants Performance.
The Thief How does one gain the powers of a god of thieves? One steals it. Grants Sleight of Hand.
The Castaway Physically stranded in a world of otherness, a mortal absorbed so much energy from an alien world, they reached vestige status. Grants Survival.

Can't really think of one for Acrobatics and Stealth (unless you want to roll them in with the same ideas as Athletics and Sleight of Hand).

Sorcerous Origin: Threadweaver
Love the tie-in to Greek mythology. I really don't have much to say, except the 18th level ability is weird and non-intuitive, though it remains thematic. Maybe tighten the wording? Not that it's long, it just would by necessity become a more elegant and easily understood feature if you managed to get the point across with fewer words. Sorry if that's not very helpful.

Damon_Tor
2020-03-06, 06:48 PM
I have nothing at this point, and might end up sitting out this contest, but it looks to be a good one.

I've been thinking about it since the last contest went dormant during the great forum coma, and yeah, I didn't have a strong idea at first either. I felt like there were a ton of ways I could just insert choices into almost any subclass I could think of, but it always just felt like I was coming up with 3+ different subclasses that just mix and match features like the Totem Barbarian does. I wanted the choices to be more meaningful, and to interact with each other.

Damon_Tor
2020-03-06, 06:58 PM
Warlock Patron: The Vestige[/SIZE]
Looks like we had some pretty similar thoughts, I just did mine the lazy way. I like it. I suppose you're looking to expand the vestige list? It would be cool to have one for each skill, but maybe you don't want to hand them that much versatility, or just don't care to do it with the purely physical skills. Although, it's a warlock, so they can probably use all the utility they can get their hands on. So far, Athletics, Acrobatics, Handle Animal, Investigation, Peformance, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, and Survival are unrepresented. The Avatar A god that befell disaster due to his desire to physically manifest and walk with mortals. Grants Athletics.
The Rider Basically Ghost Rider. Grants Animal Handling.
The Lorekeeper Similar to mages who ascended via magic, the lorekeeper rooted out some secrets that were not meant to be known. Grants Investigation.
The Crossroads Where mortals go to barter their souls for skill in song. Grants Performance.
The Thief How does one gain the powers of a god of thieves? One steals it. Grants Sleight of Hand.
The Castaway Physically stranded in a world of otherness, a mortal absorbed so much energy from an alien world, they reached vestige status. Grants Survival.

Can't really think of one for Acrobatics and Stealth (unless you want to roll them in with the same ideas as Athletics and Sleight of Hand).

I didn't want to have one for every possible skill; I didn't want to have too many options for vestiges for one thing: my focus was on social and knowledge skills, with a few scattered others where it made sense. Investigation is one I would like to see added though and I have a loose set of ideas for a vestige that will work with it, but it wasn't ready for the "alpha release".

EDIT: The Investigation Vestige is in, "The Question", an amalgamation of erased knowledge and history. Somewhat similar to The Lost, in that it's a communal intelligence born of disembodied thoughts, but while The Lost is bound together by misplaced magic, The Question is bound by the divine forbiddance of the powerful beings that sealed away the secrets.

BerzerkerUnit
2020-03-06, 10:27 PM
Feedback:

Fighter Archetype: Olympian

I like this well enough. Would definitely allow it as a DM, but it's not super exciting. I do not know how to improve it. You gain all but one of the events by the time you complete this; are you looking for more suggestions for events to add? Also, it's a fighter. You can go wild and most people won't think it's overpowered. I'd say the shotput should require two hands (I never did it, but it looks that way) and should specify that you do or do not have proficiency for the attack. Discus needs a range as a whole new weapon, and why is it special? Special implies there's more rules to read to get what it does. Wrestling is by far my favorite for a character I would actually play. The jumping and running ones seem fine, if underwhelming. Decathlete is fine for the superhuman things that 18th level characters are supposed to do.

Thanks so much for the feedback!

I never thought of the champion as particularly exciting so I used this as a chance to make a similar ďbetter than basicĒ fighter with more choices and widgets. As you level you mostly just get better at basic actions but get a few more options and a lot more choice in how you improve.

The idea for the discus is still half baked. The special quality right now is a place holder but supposed to be related to its ability to get around cover.

Shot put is a one handed toss. Since the rules generally interfere with making multiple thrown attacks I thought the ability to throw a single small object for ďCantripĒ damage was an approach to a fix, Like the scaling damage of the Javelin and the range of the hammer throw events bringing the thrown ranges up to par with smaller bows/crossbows.

Iíll go back in and add Proficiency bonus for clarity to some of the entries.

RickAsWritten
2020-03-09, 12:34 PM
Feedback:Sorcerous Origin: Threadweaver
Love the tie-in to Greek mythology. I really don't have much to say, except the 18th level ability is weird and non-intuitive, though it remains thematic. Maybe tighten the wording? Not that it's long, it just would by necessity become a more elegant and easily understood feature if you managed to get the point across with fewer words. Sorry if that's not very helpful.

Thanks for the feedback. You're right, the phrasing isn't quite clear on that ability. I'll put some thought into reworking it.

Some quick feedback for the completed ones:

I like it. It adds some fun new toys for a Fighter. I think it needs a ribbon ability or two. All the subclasses that offer a choice from an existing ability at higher levels still have other, weaker abilities at those levels. So something for skills or non-combat for 7th, 10th, and 15th would make this subclass shine.

A lot to unpack here. Overall I like it. Some of those Vestige powers look fun as heck. There's probably some power-level variations between the Vestiges, but nothing that stood out as egregious. I normally don't love to add a tertiary stat onto a subclass, but you've reduced the MADness some by including the static +1, +2, +3

I love the corporate-devil theme. I like the choice from any spell list. I think the level 6 ability is a bit on the weak-side/boring-side and the immunity at level 10 is a little on the strong-side. It evens out, but there are definitely some power-spikes and power-lulls there. Levels 6 to 10 might feel like a drag. Soul Splice is a good idea for fixing Mystic Arcanum, but I think the wording could be cleaned up a bit. Much like my capstone, your capstone could use a rewrite to get it simpler and more clear.

Man_Over_Game
2020-03-09, 01:10 PM
I've been thinking about it since the last contest went dormant during the great forum coma, and yeah, I didn't have a strong idea at first either. I felt like there were a ton of ways I could just insert choices into almost any subclass I could think of, but it always just felt like I was coming up with 3+ different subclasses that just mix and match features like the Totem Barbarian does. I wanted the choices to be more meaningful, and to interact with each other.

You could do something like a Monk I made a while back:

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?577152-Monk-Subclass-Way-of-the-Savage-Heart-(Animal-form-Monk)

I'd use it, but since it's shared somewhere outside of the contest, but inside the forum, it'd be against the contest rules.

The idea is that you're still creating 3 different specific choices, but key elements to the overall subclass makes your choice relevant and ties in the concept of the subclass, as opposed to the powers of the choices tying to each other.

For example, mine used a special attack action to utilize a special mechanic of your choice, but the special mechanics are all isolated from one another. It'd be akin to saying that a Totem Barbarian can only choose a single animal for all of its choices, but it can change its choice every time it casts its Speak with Beasts ritual. Or that the Four Elements Monk can only choose a single element for all of its choices, but the first Ki point he spends each turn is refunded.

This is enough to make the subclass have a feeling (A barbarian that converses with animal spirits, a Monk that utilizes the endless energies around him, a Monk that uses the savagery of beasts) without having to create a convoluted balancing act of micromanaging how every combination is going to impact one another (akin to the Totem Barbarian).

The other problem with having something be hyper-customizable, like the Totem Barbarian, is that certain combinations feel almost required. Bear Totem #1 works best with Bear Totem #3. This may be intentional, but it gives the illusion of choice. Players will almost always choose that which is best for a concept, and that concept is already pre-defined by your level 3 feature. There's not much of a reason that players would choose a different concept later on, so removing that choice (as I did with my homebrew subclass) doesn't feel like a loss (you don't prioritize mobility if you went Bear Totem on your first choice).

As a result, I had the luxury of working with 3 isolated systems as opposed to 3 interlocking ones.

Damon_Tor
2020-03-09, 04:23 PM
A lot to unpack here. Overall I like it. Some of those Vestige powers look fun as heck. There's probably some power-level variations between the Vestiges, but nothing that stood out as egregious. I normally don't love to add a tertiary stat onto a subclass, but you've reduced the MADness some by including the static +1, +2, +3

There are vestiges that are generally useful, vestiges that are situationally useful, and vestiges that are designed to drive combos.

The Ascendant is probably the most generally useful, but it also carries with it the least combo potential. Any damage-focused build will want The Void and control-focused build will want The Prisoner, and The Guardian is a great way to get more mileage out of either playstyle when dealing with a wide battlefield. These I consider "core vestiges" and I would expect most binders would take at least one.

The Lost is very useful when facing spellcasters, or if you and/or your party gets their concentration broken a lot. The Question is indispensable when fighting things you can't see. The Indebted is important to keep in your back pocket if someone in your party dies. These are situational vestiges: very useful to have in your "vestiges known" but not something you would automatically bind every day.

The Shadow and The Abdicant have interesting uses on their own (Feign Death becomes a powerful control spell, Warding Bond becomes much more useful when you can cast it through the barbarian) but they work best in combination (For example turning Warding Bond into a way to reflect damage onto an enemy). Similarly, the Paradox is useful enough by itself just to reroll a spell from the ground up every once in a while the dice don't go your way, but its more important use is when used together with other vestiges, like using its properties during downtime to inoculate your party against void damage (noted in the Q&A). These are the vestiges for guys like me that thrive on complex systems and flipping switches and seeing what weird things they can make happen, but I expect most others won't care for them.

But that's the beautiful thing about this theme, right? Choices.

nickl_2000
2020-03-10, 12:48 PM
I keep wanting to make a Fey based sorcerer class. It's been sitting in my ideas pile for over a year now, but I just can't get it to work. However, this one jumped out at me more.

Second draft of Paladin, Oath of the Planar Warrior is completed and ready for functional review. This is a subclass based on channeling the power of the planes through themselves to do different things.

Please feel free to rip it apart and give your opinions :)



My own reviews of completed subclasses will be coming in the next few days

nickl_2000
2020-03-12, 09:37 AM
Here we go on reviews.



Why three spells for the Spell options? It goes against the standard for oath spells

Channel Divinity - This is pretty weak and pretty situational. I would look at having a second channel divinity option that is usable in more situtions. Additionally, I would make this one be an auto-success or if you don't want to do that let them re-roll with advantage.

More will come when you finish the sub-class.





Events - I see several of these that require objects. What is your plan on the objects? is it something that you need to buy? Are they new exotic weapons? Also, are they ranged weapons so you can use dex or str?

Shotput - The damage on this seems low considering that there are no additional effects. Why would I choose to do this over a longbow that gives 1d8+dex x2 at level 5. You can keep the damage as it is currently, but give a rider of some sort. Knock down maybe? Something else. Or you can give more incremental damage increases.

Hammer Toss - I like this, it's a flat out improvement and usefuly for strength fighters. Although as written I could throw a maul using my dex mod for attack and damage. Is that expected?

Discus - Why is this a full action, it really should be an attack in my mind even if it ignore half-cover. I would even consider "You may draw and throw as an attack" then also ignore half cover, but make it a 1d6 damage weapon.

Javelin - Cool, think it would work to allow drawing multiple in a single attack action as well?

Wrestling - So, this will make you cause damage when someone attempts to escape and fails. Is that intended? (even if it isn't it should be, because that's cool).

Decathalete - This is very fitting and powerful for a capstone. I like it a lot.





Ohh an intelligence based warlock. That has my curiosity peaked immediately.

Mutable Invocations - This one feels a little broken to me. Invocations are pretty darn powerful as they are currently so 2 extra ones is really good. The problem becomes that you can switch invocations when you bind a new vestige. So, I can choose an invocation that allows me to cast a spell 1 time per day. Then, when I take a short rest I can switch that invocation out with a different one that lets me cast a spell X times per day. That alone allows you to increases the spells cast by a warlock by a large amount. The extra invocations seem fine, it's the switching at a short rest that seems like a problem to me (especially at level 14 when you can bind 3 at once).

Power- Ascendant Overreach - So, you can actually get higher than you spell level with this. Does that seem like a problem to you? I don't think it would be all that bad, but I have to check
Power - Champion of the Abdicant - This sucker is pretty powerful and I love it. I can't tell if I love it because I can abuse it or because it's a cool power though :)
Power- Lost and Found - This definitely needs
Power- Void Bloom - please, please, please don't make it permanent. You can break so many NPCs this way for DMs. Making it last until the next long rest should fit the need without ticking off them DM







Magical Boon - I think that wording on this needs to be cleaned up. The ability seems fine, reading it is confusing though
"When you complete a long rest, you may choose one level 1 or higher spell, at a level you can cast, to become a known warlock spell for you" or something like that is a little clearer.

Overall it has a good feel, and is one of the less complicated subclasses in this contest. I'm a pretty big fin of the design here.






Paths of Thread
Threadcutter - This is super, super powerful at early levels. You can take a sorcerer who gets 2 or 3 spell at level 1 or 2 and make them have 5-6 level one spells in a day. That's a lot... Even at higher levels 4-5 extra castings of Shield is nothing to scoff at.


Paths Unwound
Threadweaver - The spell ability seems good. The Slight of Hand checks are weird though and just doesn't seem to fit.




Overall seems like a really good batch of subclasses here. Especially since we as a group needded to come up with lots and lots of ideas!

BerzerkerUnit
2020-03-12, 08:20 PM
Here we go on reviews.





Events - I see several of these that require objects. What is your plan on the objects? is it something that you need to buy? Are they new exotic weapons? Also, are they ranged weapons so you can use dex or str?

Shotput - The damage on this seems low considering that there are no additional effects. Why would I choose to do this over a longbow that gives 1d8+dex x2 at level 5. You can keep the damage as it is currently, but give a rider of some sort. Knock down maybe? Something else. Or you can give more incremental damage increases.

Hammer Toss - I like this, it's a flat out improvement and usefuly for strength fighters. Although as written I could throw a maul using my dex mod for attack and damage. Is that expected?

Discus - Why is this a full action, it really should be an attack in my mind even if it ignore half-cover. I would even consider "You may draw and throw as an attack" then also ignore half cover, but make it a 1d6 damage weapon.

Javelin - Cool, think it would work to allow drawing multiple in a single attack action as well?

Wrestling - So, this will make you cause damage when someone attempts to escape and fails. Is that intended? (even if it isn't it should be, because that's cool).

Decathalete - This is very fitting and powerful for a capstone. I like it a lot.



Overall seems like a really good batch of subclasses here. Especially since we as a group needded to come up with lots and lots of ideas!

Thanks so much for the feedback!

Iím still working on Discus. Thereís something cooking to do with arcing the toss, itís still half baked. This is the only one that needs an item write up that I can think of.

Shotput is intended to allow you to throw any object that sort of fits the weight and shape. So stones, small , chests, boxes or casks are all fair game and deal the listed damage which is intended to roughly match Cantrip damage, but adds Str. The damage scaling is to offset the draw limitations for thrown weapons.

While Dex can be used for most of this, itís not a path to any optimization I can see, this would pale in comparison to an Arcane archer or battlemaster, and itís intended to present some viable, niche options for the Str based fighter.

Wrestling is even better.

RickAsWritten
2020-03-13, 08:54 AM
Here we go on reviews.



Paths of Thread
Threadcutter - This is super, super powerful at early levels. You can take a sorcerer who gets 2 or 3 spell at level 1 or 2 and make them have 5-6 level one spells in a day. That's a lot... Even at higher levels 4-5 extra castings of Shield is nothing to scoff at.


Paths Unwound
Threadweaver - The spell ability seems good. The Slight of Hand checks are weird though and just doesn't seem to fit.




Thanks for the feedback. I may move the Threadcutter 1st level ability to 14th level, with some minor alteration. I don't really like the current 14th level Threadcutter ability. It's on theme, but kinda bland. And then I can come up with a new ability for 1st level.

I chose Sleight of Hand because it is the best representation for skill at weaving. As a DM, if a player wanted to weave a blanket or sow a shirt, I'd probably call for a Sleight of Hand check, maybe a Sleight of Hand check using Intelligence (like the rope tying check in Xanathar's). Any thoughts? Maybe it could be something not skill related, like the Threadreader one.

nickl_2000
2020-03-13, 09:50 AM
Thanks so much for the feedback!

Iím still working on Discus. Thereís something cooking to do with arcing the toss, itís still half baked. This is the only one that needs an item write up that I can think of.

Shotput is intended to allow you to throw any object that sort of fits the weight and shape. So stones, small , chests, boxes or casks are all fair game and deal the listed damage which is intended to roughly match Cantrip damage, but adds Str. The damage scaling is to offset the draw limitations for thrown weapons.

While Dex can be used for most of this, itís not a path to any optimization I can see, this would pale in comparison to an Arcane archer or battlemaster, and itís intended to present some viable, niche options for the Str based fighter.

Wrestling is even better.


This is actually a pretty difficult contest. It's not just 1 idea per level, but multiple. You have a good solid start. if you happen to finish it and feel comfortable, let us know and I will look it over again.




Thanks for the feedback. I may move the Threadcutter 1st level ability to 14th level, with some minor alteration. I don't really like the current 14th level Threadcutter ability. It's on theme, but kinda bland. And then I can come up with a new ability for 1st level.

I chose Sleight of Hand because it is the best representation for skill at weaving. As a DM, if a player wanted to weave a blanket or sow a shirt, I'd probably call for a Sleight of Hand check, maybe a Sleight of Hand check using Intelligence (like the rope tying check in Xanathar's). Any thoughts? Maybe it could be something not skill related, like the Threadreader one.


Moving it to 14 would be a solid choice.

I can see why you would use slight of hand for that. So, if you want to keep it that way I don't see anything wrong with it. If you just give it a little bit more fluff in the ability it should take care of it.

Damon_Tor
2020-03-13, 02:18 PM
Ohh an intelligence based warlock. That has my curiosity peaked immediately.

Mutable Invocations - This one feels a little broken to me. Invocations are pretty darn powerful as they are currently so 2 extra ones is really good. The problem becomes that you can switch invocations when you bind a new vestige. So, I can choose an invocation that allows me to cast a spell 1 time per day. Then, when I take a short rest I can switch that invocation out with a different one that lets me cast a spell X times per day. That alone allows you to increases the spells cast by a warlock by a large amount. The extra invocations seem fine, it's the switching at a short rest that seems like a problem to me (especially at level 14 when you can bind 3 at once).

I am planning to dial this back some: my current plan is to give each vestige a selection of thematically appropriate Invocations and give the binder just one extra invocation which has to be one known by an active vestige. He can still trade it out on a short rest, but he's limited by his known vestiges (and thus his investiture in intelligence) and by having just the one invocation that's mutable.

One of my design goals here was to make a warlock that was closer to a "full caster", and one of the disparities is the lack of access to a ton of low level spell slots to cast utility spells with at mid/high tier. The warlock base class solves this to a limited degree with invocations, so building on that system seems like the natural choice. But I agree that it was too strong as written.


Power- Ascendant Overreach - So, you can actually get higher than you spell level with this. Does that seem like a problem to you? I don't think it would be all that bad, but I have to check

So can sorcerers using Flexible Casting, so this isn't unprecedented. And another key difference is that a Sorcerer can use sorcery points to turn a level 4 spell slot into a level 5 spell slot then cast a level 5 spell with it. The warlock can only use this to upcast, not to cast a higher level spell. Granted, sorcerers can't cast extra level 6 spells with this tactic while a binder can, but then again Warlocks can't usually cast more than 1 level 6 spells in a day anyway, and the one they can cast is highly constrained by the Mystic Arcanum system, so giving them a 1/short rest ability to boost a level 5 spell to a level 6 spell accomplishes my "closer to a full caster" design goal. And there are only very limited ways a warlock can boost level 6-8 spells by turning them up a level (and level 9 spells do nothing different when cast at "level 10") so it isn't much of a concern past mid-tier. Most of the time this is either +1 target for a control spell or +1 dice of damage for a damage spell.


Power - Champion of the Abdicant - This sucker is pretty powerful and I love it. I can't tell if I love it because I can abuse it or because it's a cool power though :)

Yes, I like it too. Definitely something that would make other spellcasters consider a warlock dip. Cast Tenser's Transformation on the Fighter? Yes, I would like that, thank you.


Power- Lost and Found - This definitely needs

I see what you did there.


Power- Void Bloom - please, please, please don't make it permanent. You can break so many NPCs this way for DMs. Making it last until the next long rest should fit the need without ticking off them DM

What if it can be removed via Remove Curse? I do want to allow the binder to inoculate himself and his allies against it permanently, as sort of a weaker shape-spell defense for allies against his blast, and I would like it if it wasn't something someone could just sleep off. Remove Curse is a common enough spell (IIRC, every temple offers it as a basic service) and notably it's on the warlock list, so our boy would have a solution if he accidentally tagged himself or a buddy with it and didn't know how to bind The Paradox.

nickl_2000
2020-03-13, 02:26 PM
What if it can be removed via Remove Curse? I do want to allow the binder to inoculate himself and his allies against it permanently, as sort of a weaker shape-spell defense for allies against his blast, and I would like it if it wasn't something someone could just sleep off. Remove Curse is a common enough spell (IIRC, every temple offers it as a basic service) and notably it's on the warlock list, so our boy would have a solution if he accidentally tagged himself or a buddy with it and didn't know how to bind The Paradox.

That would be fine with me. There is a huge difference between it's there forever no matter what you do and "You can remove the effect with Remove Cure, Greater Restoration, or a Wish." That seems like a good compromise.

Damon_Tor
2020-03-13, 06:48 PM
Made several changes, most based on nickl's suggestions.

-Mutable Invocations changed to Vestigial Invocation, a much more limited (and, IMO, more flavorful) ability
-Added a clause to Lost and Found which reduces the duration of the duplicate spell you cast by the elapsed duration of the spell that triggers the ability
-Void Vulnerability and Resistance can now be removed via Remove Curse, Greater Restoration, or Wish

nickl_2000
2020-03-14, 09:47 AM
Made several changes, most based on nickl's suggestions.

-Mutable Invocations changed to Vestigial Invocation, a much more limited (and, IMO, more flavorful) ability
-Added a clause to Lost and Found which reduces the duration of the duplicate spell you cast by the elapsed duration of the spell that triggers the ability
-Void Vulnerability and Resistance can now be removed via Remove Curse, Greater Restoration, or Wish

Looks like a very good change to me. Vestigial Invocation is still abusable, but in a appropriate way (at least in my mind).

Phhase
2020-03-15, 11:03 PM
Ight sorry for the delay. Artificer specialty: Machinist is up. It's a little all over the place, but I think it has some merit. It's certainly got no end of choices to make. Enjoy!

Damon_Tor
2020-03-19, 09:45 PM
My thoughts on what's been posted so far:

I strongly encourage a "summoner" artificer build, it makes perfect sense. For context, it's worth noting that I made my own homebrew summons-based artificer quite recently. That means that it's a bit hard for me to be entirely objective about the differences in how you handled it compared to my approach, so I'm going to skip over some of the purely subjective differences and get to the one place I think you need to dial back on hard: balance. In particular, the CR you allow for the mechanist's minions is far past the curve of what any summon-based class is currently capable of. At sixth level, a druid can summon a group of animals with a total CR of 2 for one hour, three times per day, and it costs him his three third level spell slots. A sixth level necromancer wizard can have a team of six skeletons/zombies with a total CR of 1.5, lasting all day but still costing him his three third level spell slots. The mechanist can have a team with a total CR of 5 with him all day, every day, with no reduction in his spell-casting ability at all.

This means your mechanist will have more than double the man-power of another summoner build, and will have the same number of spell slots available for others things as compared to a full caster dedicated to the concept because he's using no magic to keep his army running. It appears to be balanced instead by gold and prep time, which isn't inherently bad, but no other class is really designed that way, and it puts the DM in a weird place where he has to watch how much gold he gives you so you can't build an army that's too strong.

In my opinion, you should keep the CR of your total horde to 1/4 of your artificer level (with fractions explicitly allowed due to the existence of CR 1/8 and 1/4 NPCs) which will keep you in the "all day" power level range of the necromancer's skele-squad. If you feel the need to justify the cost of the materials for the creations to feel "real" make building AND sourcing the materials a single downtime activity without a gold cost: you could hand-waive this as your guy selling lesser automatons on the side to fund his more dangerous creations, or salvaging his parts from a junkyard, but it wouldn't force the DM to award you a certain amount of gold just to use your class features.

I like the infusions you designed for your robots, and all the one-of-three choices you've come up with are great. Really it's all very solid except for the core issue of how crazy strong your squad can get, and the weirdness of the gold cost.

This is my favorite so far, literally a paladin of choosing things. Great way to take the core concept and run with it.

Not sure about some of the spells you picked and how they relate to the theme.

Unstoppable Charge and Inexorable March are great.

Aura of will is kind of boring, but then again so are most of the paladin aura improvements, so par for the course I suppose.

Invincible Idea is perfect.

I feel like you took the theme and ran with it a little too hard, shoehorning everything into several core "events" rather than building a coherent and viable subclass. Do Shotput and Hammer Throw need their own individual options? Can they be combined into a more general "throw heavy thing" feature? I'm alright introducing a new weapon type, ie the discus, but it seems pretty redundant compared to the javelins anyway. The subclass is basically "very mobile skirmisher javelin specialist" which is totally fine, but I feel like all the other stuff is pretty redundant.

You short-change the potential this guy could have as an unarmed combatant: aside from wrestling, the Greeks included boxing and a boxing/wrestling hybrid that was effectively MMA, so if anyone should get a dynamite unarmed combat package it would be these guys.

You're also missing any equestrian specialties, and I think there's a place in my heart for a chariot specialist fighter.

Much love to a multi-patron concept.

A warlock, with his flexible slots, is a dangerous person to give access to any spell. Any spell a wizard can use to break an economy in half (be it a financial economy or an action economy) with three or four castings on a given day a warlock can tear to ribbons with thirty or forty. There should be a daily limit set on the any-list spell, whether that's your charisma modifier or something else.

Probably my second favorite right now.

Mechanically, very solid. It's a very subtle subclass for a class that's usually very flashy: this is a great niche, and one not well filled. Even the shadow sorcerer has splashy features of ominous and obvious darkness, but this is smooth. The portent-esque features are nice without stepping on the diviner's toes.

I'm a bit concerned about a Threadcutter/Threadweaver being a bit too resource efficient in terms of spells per day, but it would be a very minor overtuning if anything, and frankly I'm stretching to find something to be critical of.

Great spell list. The rest of the spell lists so far have been a bit befuddling to me, but yours is perfect. Useful, topical, fun.

I'm actually reading this for the first time right now: it must not have been finished the last time I went through it, and damn it's cool. Rethinking my current ranking.

The switching of planar alignment is rad. All the abilities are cool.

Great work overall, nothing to criticize. If I have one quibble, it's that the capstone ability specifically calls out an ability relating to the shadowfell (the teleportation) but that's the only one that's specifically namedropped. IMO, just get rid of that reference: you can just as easily teleport via any of the other planes (and what if he's in the shadowfell to begin with?). But that is a reeeeal stretch for something to complain about. Great job.

I'm not sure I care for them getting both 1/3 caster slots AND full use of Ki. Seems like overkill, both in terms of powerlevel and options paralysis.

In general, this seems like less of one subclass with many choices, and four different subclasses that have a few things in common. You can't mix and match features and you can't change your choices, so how is a "Cat Feyral" not it's own distinct subclass when compared to the "Snake Feyral"? Yes, there are branching choices down the line which helps keep things on point, but even then the same problems persist because those choices are explicitly locked in when you pick them.

MoleMage
2020-03-19, 11:05 PM
Put together a hasty translation of my 3.5 Juggler prestige class (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23007346&postcount=5) for this. It's got some stuff to iron out still for sure, but I think all the choices are compelling enough that even if some are objectively better the others will still get picked.

BerzerkerUnit
2020-03-20, 12:12 AM
My thoughts on what's been posted so far:

[

I feel like you took the theme and ran with it a little too hard, shoehorning everything into several core "events" rather than building a coherent and viable subclass. Do Shotput and Hammer Throw need their own individual options? Can they be combined into a more general "throw heavy thing" feature? I'm alright introducing a new weapon type, ie the discus, but it seems pretty redundant compared to the javelins anyway. The subclass is basically "very mobile skirmisher javelin specialist" which is totally fine, but I feel like all the other stuff is pretty redundant.

You short-change the potential this guy could have as an unarmed combatant: aside from wrestling, the Greeks included boxing and a boxing/wrestling hybrid that was effectively MMA, so if anyone should get a dynamite unarmed combat package it would be these guys.

You're also missing any equestrian specialties, and I think there's a place in my heart for a chariot specialist fighter.

[

Thanks so much for your feedback!

I emphatically disagree with almost every point.

I donít think anything indicates javelin specialist beyond one of the events being javelin based.

This was intended to be a ďstraightforward fighterĒ akin to the Champion but with the emphasis on Choices, the theme of the contest. But each choice improves core functionality: mobility, versatility of weapon choice, variety of possible actions.

Hammer Throw and Shotput are both very different, and serve different purposes: one-handed vs two handed, ranges, possible damage (Shotput is single action with Cantrip type damage), one can be used with ďwhateverĒ and the other is for heavy weapons.

The Discus is giving me trouble and swapping it for a Chariot event doesnít seem like a bad idea beyond common associations. The Discus is a ďlegendaryĒ Olympic event with a famed classical sculpture. The Spartacus movie made the Chariot seem more associated with gladiatorial events.

As for Wrestling, Pankration was a fairly formalized combat form. I think what I have here is a sweet spot between a bump and a straight unarmed focused subclass.

Thanks again for giving me something to think about!

nickl_2000
2020-03-20, 06:57 AM
My thoughts on what's been posted so far:


Great spell list. The rest of the spell lists so far have been a bit befuddling to me, but yours is perfect. Useful, topical, fun.

I'm actually reading this for the first time right now: it must not have been finished the last time I went through it, and damn it's cool. Rethinking my current ranking.

The switching of planar alignment is rad. All the abilities are cool.

Great work overall, nothing to criticize. If I have one quibble, it's that the capstone ability specifically calls out an ability relating to the shadowfell (the teleportation) but that's the only one that's specifically namedropped. IMO, just get rid of that reference: you can just as easily teleport via any of the other planes (and what if he's in the shadowfell to begin with?). But that is a reeeeal stretch for something to complain about. Great job.



I'm not sure why I specified the shadowfell here, maybe it was some memory about the wording of the Way of the Shadow monk (although looking at it this morning, it says nothing about the shadowfell). I changed it to this instead to make it more generic


As a bonus action, you can make a short step into another plane then back, teleporting you up to 30 ft.


Luckily for me, there are lots and lot of spells that use the planes in 5e. So, I had an abundance of spells to choose from in the spell lists :smalltongue: Thanks for the review.

sengmeng
2020-03-20, 12:24 PM
Much love to a multi-patron concept.

A warlock, with his flexible slots, is a dangerous person to give access to any spell. Any spell a wizard can use to break an economy in half (be it a financial economy or an action economy) with three or four castings on a given day a warlock can tear to ribbons with thirty or forty. There should be a daily limit set on the any-list spell, whether that's your charisma modifier or something else.

Good point. I decided the simplest and cleanest fix was "slots used to cast your Magical Boon spell are refreshed on a long rest, but not a short rest." So a tiny bit of extra bookkeeping in exchange for not breaking everything.

I will try to get feedback to those who have finished since my last round of feedback. Also speak up if you've made changes since and want the revised version evaluated.

nickl_2000
2020-03-20, 12:37 PM
And I apologize, but there will be no more reviews coming from me this time around. Life just got crazy after bringing home a new baby and it doesn't lend itself to reviews on complication subclasses like in this contest. Good luck everyone!

Segev
2020-03-20, 03:01 PM
And I apologize, but there will be no more reviews coming from me this time around. Life just got crazy after bringing home a new baby and it doesn't lend itself to reviews on complication subclasses like in this contest. Good luck everyone!

Congratulations! Have fun with your newborn and your spouse. :smallsmile:

nickl_2000
2020-03-20, 03:43 PM
Congratulations! Have fun with your newborn and your spouse. :smallsmile:

Thanks, I think her older brothers are the most excited ones :)

Segev
2020-03-20, 03:57 PM
Thanks, I think her older brothers are the most excited ones :)

"Her" being the newborn or your wife? Because soon-to-be-big-brother excitement and uncle excitement are different things. If she has big brothers, though, lucky them. :)

nickl_2000
2020-03-21, 09:51 AM
"Her" being the newborn or your wife? Because soon-to-be-big-brother excitement and uncle excitement are different things. If she has big brothers, though, lucky them. :)

Her is the newborn, although my wife is also excited. We have a mess of children, all boys other than the new little one. This is actually the first girl of the generation in my family, so there are a lot of people excited.

RickAsWritten
2020-03-23, 01:49 PM
Her is the newborn, although my wife is also excited. We have a mess of children, all boys other than the new little one. This is actually the first girl of the generation in my family, so there are a lot of people excited.

Congrats man.



I updated the Threadweaver based on feedback given. Thanks to all that helped.

Update found here: Sorcerous Origin: Threadweaver (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24387820&postcount=7)

KragBrightscale
2020-03-26, 01:01 AM
Just some feedback:
fighter subclass: The Olympian:
Love it, definitely seems a more interesting and customizable than the standard champion.
As mentioned by others, some ribbon or non event options/features could be good. Some ideas:
1)Being an Olympian/professional athelete usually comes with recognition and fame. A feature could plays on renown for some role play opportunities.
2)Competitive events usually have strict regulations/rules. Could there be a benefit in following rules?
3)Athletes are usually Keep fit, could this provide a minor boost to their health or physical stats?

Apart from that, Iím all for including even more events.

Phhase
2020-03-26, 01:10 AM
My thoughts on what's been posted so far:

I strongly encourage a "summoner" artificer build, it makes perfect sense. For context, it's worth noting that I made my own homebrew summons-based artificer quite recently. That means that it's a bit hard for me to be entirely objective about the differences in how you handled it compared to my approach, so I'm going to skip over some of the purely subjective differences and get to the one place I think you need to dial back on hard: balance. In particular, the CR you allow for the mechanist's minions is far past the curve of what any summon-based class is currently capable of. At sixth level, a druid can summon a group of animals with a total CR of 2 for one hour, three times per day, and it costs him his three third level spell slots. A sixth level necromancer wizard can have a team of six skeletons/zombies with a total CR of 1.5, lasting all day but still costing him his three third level spell slots. The mechanist can have a team with a total CR of 5 with him all day, every day, with no reduction in his spell-casting ability at all.

This means your mechanist will have more than double the man-power of another summoner build, and will have the same number of spell slots available for others things as compared to a full caster dedicated to the concept because he's using no magic to keep his army running. It appears to be balanced instead by gold and prep time, which isn't inherently bad, but no other class is really designed that way, and it puts the DM in a weird place where he has to watch how much gold he gives you so you can't build an army that's too strong.

In my opinion, you should keep the CR of your total horde to 1/4 of your artificer level (with fractions explicitly allowed due to the existence of CR 1/8 and 1/4 NPCs) which will keep you in the "all day" power level range of the necromancer's skele-squad. If you feel the need to justify the cost of the materials for the creations to feel "real" make building AND sourcing the materials a single downtime activity without a gold cost: you could hand-waive this as your guy selling lesser automatons on the side to fund his more dangerous creations, or salvaging his parts from a junkyard, but it wouldn't force the DM to award you a certain amount of gold just to use your class features.

I like the infusions you designed for your robots, and all the one-of-three choices you've come up with are great. Really it's all very solid except for the core issue of how crazy strong your squad can get, and the weirdness of the gold cost.

Thanks! :smallbiggrin: The way I was thinking of it was that while yes, you can have a big army, that army and what you can do to it is all you have (more or less). So to speak, everything revolves around them, and any one machine being disabled means losing everything that machine was bringing to the fight as well (as well as resources). Losing a machine means losing access to more class features than usual.

Think of the machines like magical items in the sense that you're spending gold and time on them, not to mention the fact that they're usually in danger during fights (And receive less healing!). So while yes, they are powerful, they also have a potentially high maintenance cost that might make one loath to treat them as expendable.

Also note that you can only have five machines if you have at least 20 INT, which may not be the case for some time. And also every time you level up, you have to pay in order for your machines to "level up" too. Only your initial level 3 set of machines is free.

On the other end, consider that since skeletons are humanoid, you can outfit them with (potentially magical) weapons and armor, which you can't do for machines.

All that said, you are right, the power level is high (Especially considering innate qualities or attacks the machine bring to the table - I'm gonna have to make some exclusions to valid machine form choices. No Gorgons or Cockatrices!). I'll consider curbing it, but I'm not yet sure how I want to.

Changelog for Machinist!


Added missing damage types to Energy Projector: Lightning, Acid, and Physical.

Slightly bumped burn damage of Waters of Phlegethos.

Mana Battery now requires only 9th level.

Added new infusions: Anode, Static Discharge, Magplating, Magfield, Deus Est Machina.

Deus Est Machina is kinda silly power-wise, if you think about it. But it's cool, innit?



Feedback Time! At last. There are some especially great entries this time around.



Oath Spells: I like the idea of creating a different Oath Spell dynamic, but just ONE spell, swapping per long rest seems a little prohibitive. Consider a metric for increasing the number of Oath Flexes. Ex: Number of spells equal to Cha Modifier, calculated by level, one per spell level, etc.

Voice of Freedom: I like it! Just be sure to specify that it cleanses any effect that reduces a creature's speed to zero, not effects that onlyreduce a creature's speed to 0.

Unstoppable Charge: Nice, no problems.

Aura of Liberty: Rephrase so that it uses your already existing Aura of Protection. Ex: "At the end of each long rest, choose one of the following enhancements to apply to your Aura of Protection..." Otherwise, no problems! I really like the remote Divine Smite. You may also wish to consider advantage vs effects that would move the target against their will.

Inexorable March: Good, but riddle me this: What happens if you shove a target backwards during your charge? Do you hit them again once you reach them? What happens if you shove them into another creature in your path? Do you start rolling up a big Katamari of enemies until the end of your charge?

Invincible Idea: Great, but clarify the fact that creatures can continue fighting at 0 HP (But can still die and must still make death saves).

Overall pretty solid! I probably wouldn't play it, but I'd love if someone else in the party wanted to.




Add some formatting just for clarity.
Events: Interesting take on maneuvers.

Shotput: Solid, BUT. Treat it like a weapon entry. Say "You become proficient with" if you now apply your proficiency score to attacks made with the object. Also qualify any weapon attributes the item gains. Ex: "...gains the Thrown property, with a range of..." This advice is relevant to several entries, so I'll just mark those with the tag Rephrase.

Hammer Toss: I like this. Reminds my of Roy's Sword. Rephrase.

Discus: Rephrase. Also, create an item entry for the new weapon.

Javelin: Looks good.

Hurdles: A bit niche but ok.

Sprinting: Synergy with Hurdles is good. Not sure what the use case is, but being Sanic can be cool.

Marathon: It's fine, but the phrasing itches my brain a bit, since most exhaustion effects already allow a saving throw. At your discretion, use "...another saving throw..." instead. This is an incredibly small nit though, disregard freely.

Long & High Jump: So, what you're saying is that if I use Crazy Cool Celt's Thri-kreen race, (10ft high jump, 30ft long jump, no running starts required), triple that with Boots of Striding and Springing, the jump spell, Long Jump, and High Jump, I'll be able to make a...360ft high jump and a 1080ft long jump!? From a standing start at any time!?

Dude. Count me in. Something something tall buildings in a single bound. Just remember this: The long jump in isolation as your only movement in a round involves moving at a calculated 123 miles per hour. If you can also take the Dash action as a bonus action, and are under the effects of haste, and have a movement speed of 30ft, then you can travel 145 miles per hour.

I think. Lol.

Pole Vault: As with Hurdles, interesting, not sure about the use case.

Wrestling: A little redundant ever since the Class Feature Variants UA introduced the Unarmed fighting style, which does much of the same things. IF it stacks, ok I guess. but consider other benefits. Also, if you have monk levels, do you apply your martial arts dice instead, sine that's your unarmed attack damage?

Decathlete: Feels like swimming speed should be an Event option. Ok otherwise.

Overall, seems ok! Maybe even a little underpowered.





Excellent idea. Truly excellent. Has someone done this before? Seems crazy, but I don't think so.

Magical Boon: A very interesting riff on Magical Secrets. However, similar to Oath of Volition, I think literally one spell is too few. Two or three at later levels would be best. But no more. Also, I don't like how the long rest spell slots work. If you use all your slots to cast that spell, does that mean you turn into a crappy wizard or sorceror? No more slots until your long rest? Seems to violate the core of Warlock.

Forbidden Knowledge: Great idea. However, I think ALL weapons, ALL armors, or ONE skill, language, OR tool is a bit unfair to skills, tools, and languages. Consider gaining proficiency in three weapons, three armors, or three skills, tools, or languages.

You know, one for each member of the IFCC.

Also, 1/short rest to add double your proficiency score seems a little meh. Consider Cha Mod/Long rest instead.

Fiendish Focus: Good, but perhaps you should add the damage to spells of that energy type you cast as well?

Soul Splice: So...wait. This class feature's function is to un-gimp, and in fact, possibly supercharge Magical Boon? While I do like Unlimited Arcane Power, I'm not sure if this is the right way. Does this mean your Mystic Arcanum grenades just become normal slots? That refresh on a short rest? That'd be pretty crazy. My recommendation? This ain't a Soul Splice, try for something closer to the comic.

Closing Thoughts: Formatting! Please! Not for clarity, but for style! Gotta have those IFCC colors, Purple, Yellow, Orange (I think Director Lee is Yellow, Cedrik is Orange, and Nero is Purple)! Also, consider breaking everything down by the Rule of Three! One for each IFCC head! For example, consider this rough edit:

Magical Secrets: At the end of each long rest, the IFCC will grant you access to many more spells than a normal patron, but with a twist. At the end of each long rest, choose up to three spells of up to the highest level you can cast from one of the IFCC's offered lists. They count as warlock spells that you know.

Director Lee: All Transmutation Spells
Cedrik: All Conjuration Spells
Nero: All Necromancy Spells

Forbidden Knowedge:
Director Lee: Three Weapons.
Cedrik: Three Armors
Nero: Three Skills, tools, or languages (or one of each, if the former is too good)

Three uses of expertise per long rest, of course.

Fiendish Focus: Fine as is, just format according to IFCC standards.

Soul Splice: I say go for a more comic-faithful interpretation. Perhaps once per long rest, A member of the IFCC of choice will grant a soul splice to the player. The player is treated as having every spell from the associated list (see Magical Secrets) list prepared, and gains a few bonus spell slots, but has to make an auxillary Concentration check each time they would normally have to (As well as once per hour), or else the Splice is lost.

But, just my thoughts.



Threadweaver: Oh geez. Mix this with 2 levels of Divination wizard, being a halfling with the racial feat, and the Lucky Feat and you deal 12d6 psychic damage to the DM each time a d20 is rolled. Jesus. This is fun and all, but consider a different effect.

Threadcutter: I think until the END of your next turn would be better, but YMMV. Good otherwise.

Threadreader: Works.

Metaweaver: Sounds good. I like Metamagic.

Weaver II: Weird. Could be cool with the right setup though, I imagine. I kinda don't get the deal of the auras though.

Cutter II: Good. However, consider this: at 20th level, Weaver II lets you regain 6 Sorcery points per long rest by upcasting. A first level spell slot is worth 2 sorcery points, so if you have a Cha score of at least 20, and a bag of 5 rats, then you have 10 sorcery points per long rest instead (or spell slots, alternatively). It's just better in most ways, unless you want the Indimidation advantage. You may want to add a "non-cantrip" or creature size/CR stipulation to avoid this.

Reader II: Looks good, but the non-damaging stipulation is a bit odd. What's the idea here? There are plenty of non-damaging offensive spells. Did you mean "Must target yourself or an ally," or something? It's not bad, just odd.

Followed or Formed: I really like how which 3rd option you get is decided by your previous choices. That's a really neat feature.

Thread of Destiny: Interesting feature! Are sure it should be only once per long rest though? Maybe you should pay a spell slot? Also, the literal interpretation brings intereting metal images to mind. When you take this action, do you, like, momentarily shift into the Plane of Fate to perform your feat?

Fate Breaker: Solid feature, but I feel like the name or effect should change, since fate breaker sound like you're preventing something rather than making more likely to happen.

All in all, some good features! Needs to tying together, but looks cool. Maybe give proficiency with Weaver's tools as a ribbon? :smalltongue:




Congradulatio on the new kid!

Channeling the Planes: Interesting choice. Clean phrasing a bit. Specifically, for Astral, what does "Being attacked" mean? Elaborate. Any attack or spell attack roll? Iunno if Elysium is the right choice for positive energy effects. There is a positive energy plane, after all. Also, the latter three are all the same. Try differentiating.

Planar Aura: As per my advice to Oath of Volition, phrase in terms of your Aura of Protection. Immune to poison damage and poisoned condition is a bit strong. Are you sure you don't just want resist/advantage? Shadowfell is the same as Abyss, try something different for one of them. Celestia is good. Does it stack with Life Cleric's thing?

Empowered Channel Divinity: Astral: I have no idea where the phrasing is going. Reconcile this with the original description. As is, it adds almost (?) nothing. Latter three are all the same, make em' different! Otherwise, it's just the illusion of choice. Well. Moreso.

Planar Warrior: Are you sure you want to be able to deal 2d8 damage of ANY type? Otherwise good.

Overall, needs some polish, but is on a good path. I can see this being an interesting subclass.




Heh. Anyway.

Spellcasting: Are you sure you want to be a 1/3 caster? There's plenty of precedent for just using Ki to cast.

Shilleagh: Might be better just to make it a class feature instead of tying it to the spell. Otherwise good.

Natural Connection: Seems ok. Kinda like the Way of Mercy.

Wild Style: Good overall, but the Fox Spirit choices are a bit too wordy (and keep in mind who this is coming from). Simplify the wording or try something else. Additionally, the second Snake Spirit choice is a bit odd. Just one or two duration clauses are fine.

Primal Form: No complaints! Everything looks fine.

Feyral Form: I get what you're going for, but as above, make it less tangly. As Archer would say: Phrasing!




Put this apple on your head!

This is probably the best juggler/jester type subclass I've seen yet. It really nails the archetype, and I've only got a few nits. First, what happens if you're moved against your will, knocked prone, or otherwise have your juggle interfered with?

It feels a little odd that a Flask ISN'T a "Small, solid object", but I guess.

Apropos of Slippery Dodge, couldn't you just give them an attack of opportunity?

Magic Eater looks great, but just one thing, seems a little off that it affects only things you can Evade. Perhaps allow it to apply to ranged spell attack rolls you Uncanny Dodge?

Flurry of Steel is awesome, but how powerful is it, really? Should there be a limit on uses per long rest?




I really like this. It all comes together really nicely. It's like a literal Yin and Yang inside you.

Tainted Ki: Looks good, but go through the demons and look for ones that embody damage types, there's plenty. Hezrou for poison, Palrethee for fire, Gelugon for cold, Baubau for acid, etc.

Haunted Dreams: Really cool flavor. However, also consider making a roll of 10 represent a decisive mental victory over your personal demons, possibly giving you a bonus.

Freed on Death: Cool idea, but mostly just flavor. Is that ok? I'm not sure.

Tormented Fury: Toggleable Reckless Attack? Interesting. Powerful.

Tormented Mind: Good idea, but consider this: what if you could react to a psychic attack by using the demon within as a sort of mental living shield? Perhaps there could be some kind of backlash on the attacker. That would be pretty cool.

Demonic Emanation: Sounds more like an aura. Interesting ability though. If you end up going with the above idea relating to demon and damage types, consider a different spell list for each damage type.

Final Confrontation: Now this is epic (if edgy). Built in character arc! I'd personally change the word "Succumb" to "Consume" since the text implies you're not losing the battle, you're instead subjugating the demon to your will/consuming its power. Otherwise, looks great!

Great execution. I look forward to voting.



Don't worry, I'll comment on Vestige, but in a bit. I'm tired now.

Damon_Tor
2020-03-26, 02:09 PM
Looking for opinions on something I've been thinking about: how would everyone feel about moving the Vestige Powers to level 6?

As it stands, I feel like the early levels of this subclass are too strong, and that makes it multiclass-bait. On the warlock by itself, with its limited spell list, I feel like the powers are well balanced, but a 1 level dip into a Vestige warlock would be extremely strong for a wizard. I don't want to outright prohibit these powers from being useful for multiclassing: I could go ahead and say they only apply to warlock spells and be done with it, but I don't care for that solution. After all, why shouldn't a Wizard be able to learn from a being like Karsus, or a Druid call on aid from a depleted Guardian spirit, or a Sorcerer tap into a semi-sentient proto-elemental void? But drawing such significant power from these vestiges should take more time and devotion than a single level should allow.

I feel like an extra skill proficiency/expertise and an extended bonus spell selection, choices you can change on a short rest, should be enough of a benefit for levels one through five: most warlock subclasses have a very minor and/or situational benefit at level 1 (with one notable exception, which should be taken as a lesson about avoiding frontloading features into a warlock subclass).

Everything else would stay the same: you would still get your second bound vestige at level 6 and your increase to vestiges known.

MoleMage
2020-03-26, 03:25 PM
Put this apple on your head!

This is probably the best juggler/jester type subclass I've seen yet. It really nails the archetype, and I've only got a few nits. First, what happens if you're moved against your will, knocked prone, or otherwise have your juggle interfered with?

It feels a little odd that a Flask ISN'T a "Small, solid object", but I guess.

Apropos of Slippery Dodge, couldn't you just give them an attack of opportunity?

Magic Eater looks great, but just one thing, seems a little off that it affects only things you can Evade. Perhaps allow it to apply to ranged spell attack rolls you Uncanny Dodge?

Flurry of Steel is awesome, but how powerful is it, really? Should there be a limit on uses per long rest?




I'll get feedback up for everyone this weekend, but for now some responses to this.

Basically as long as your hands are free whenever it isn't your turn, you can keep juggling. You're a professional, juggling laying down or while being dragged around by the scruff of your shirt is hard but not beyond you. I'll rewrite the language to be more clear.

I was wary of giving them a way to reliably AoO because rogues can sneak attack on those. Though I guess I could do that but just leave the sneak attack clause in.

Magic Eater should probably include spell attack rolls as well. I'll update the language to include that.

I hadn't run the math on Flurry of Steel yet, let's see...:


Using a Juggler Rogue and a Rogue without archetype abilities at level 17 (sneak attack 9d6)


Round 1: Juggler uses bonus action to start juggle (3 items) and makes a single attack. Normal rogue makes two attacks.
Round 2: Juggler now has four items in juggle, makes two attacks. Rogue makes two attacks.
Round 3: Juggler now has 5 items in juggle, makes 2 attacks. Rogue makes 2 attacks.
Round 4, juggler now has 6 items in juggle, makes 6 attacks, rogue makes 2 attacks.


In four rounds, the Juggler gets to make 11 attacks, 9 of which add Dex to damage. A normal rogue makes 8, four of which add Dex to damage. This is the optimum use of Flurry of Steel and takes four rounds to set up. Both rogues can use sneak attack four times. Both are assumed to be using short swords or equivalent. We will assume +5 Dex on both by level 17 when the ability becomes available.

Juggler damage: 11d6 + 45 + 36d6. Average damage over four rounds: 209.5
Rogue damage: 8d6 + 20 + 36d6. Average damage over four rounds 174

So it looks like Flurry of Steel comes out ahead in the long run by about 35 damage. The Thief archetype gives a second turn the first round of combat at the same level, though, which is worth 43.5 average damage once per combat (two attacks with light weapons + Dex on main hand and one sneak attack). Since most combats will end before the juggler gets to have a second 6-item Flurry of Steel in the same combat, I think I'm going to leave it as is.

Phhase
2020-03-26, 05:14 PM
Basically as long as your hands are free whenever it isn't your turn, you can keep juggling. You're a professional, juggling laying down or while being dragged around by the scruff of your shirt is hard but not beyond you. I'll rewrite the language to be more clear.

I getcha, but I was thinking about a case where you get knocked back - items in the air don't inherit your momentum and are left behind. Might be too physics-y but it's up to you.


Though I guess I could do that but just leave the sneak attack clause in.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was getting at.

Appending to previous feedback:


Swiss Army Warlock, eh? This should be interesting. The base mechanics seem fine, so I'll break this down by Vestige, for the most part. Are you going to add Pact Boons?

Vestigial Invocation: Just to be clear, this means that each bound vestige grants you a bonus Invocation, right?

The Prisoner: Seems ok. Does Chains of the Prisoner require a reaction, or is it effectively a free action? For that matter, apply that question to all of the vestige powers.

The Ascendant: It's ok. Who's Karsus?

The Abdicant: I regret to inform you that Diplomacy is not a formal skill in 5e. Persuasion works, though. The power is "Twinspell - Self only". Works, I guess. To be clear, the spell must be one that can ONLY target you, not one that targets a single creature that happens to be you in the moment, right?

The Guardian: Oh boy, Reclamation could be huge, literally.

The Lost: Spelltheft/Reflection. Iiiiiinteresting.... Nice flavor too. Potentially great with Reclamation.

The Void: Neat. What's it look like?

The Shadow: Oh boy. That ability could be REALLY powerful. I've made a post once about niche applications of Nystul's Magic Aura, which requires a willing target. This could really kick it up a notch...Wait! If you can cast a spell that brings the dead back to life, could you bring them back against their will!? That would be insane!

The Paradox: Interesting. Especially because Counterspells that enemies use are NOT refunded. Are you refunded material components too?

The Indebted: Interesting spin on Blood Prices for spells. Would Paradox Rewind undo the max hp reduction too?

The Question: There is some extreme potential here. Especially if you combine it with something that lets you cast spells remotely, and/or Distant Spell metamagic. I just need to mull it over for a while...

Honestly, I was unimpressed at first, but now that I'm done, I think it's really quite good. If you're worried about it being Multiclass bait, I contest that that's ok. I like the idea of Synergy Warlock. After all, that's kind of the flavor of the subclass in the first place, yeah? If you want to give it a little more individual identity, give each vestige a unique Invocation and/or Boon. That would cement the cool factor, for me anyway.

Damon_Tor
2020-03-26, 06:46 PM
Vestigial Invocation: Just to be clear, this means that each bound vestige grants you a bonus Invocation, right?
You have one bonus invocation "slot" which is an invocation known by any one of your currently bound vestiges. You don't have one for each vestige. It had been that way in an earlier draft, but I changed it due to balance concerns.

The Prisoner: Seems ok. Does Chains of the Prisoner require a reaction, or is it effectively a free action? For that matter, apply that question to all of the vestige powers.[/quote]
They don't require reactions: they're meant to be flavored as augmentations to an existing spell, sort of souped-up limited-use metamagic. This particular one developed into it's own sort of pseudospell as I wrote the class, but the original concept was that the chains augment another control spell and make it harder to escape.


The Ascendant: It's ok. Who's Karsus?
He's the reason spells stop at ninth level in Forgotten Realms lore. In short: thousands of years ago powerful wizards used tenth and eleventh level spells to make things like spaceships and floating cities and all kinds of crazy stuff. Then this one guy Karsus decided to invent a twelfth level spell to make himself into a new God of Magic. Instead he wound up turning off magic for a while, all those floating cities the other wizards had worked so hard on crashed, and he was unmade in the process. By the time the universe got around to issuing a new God of Magic to get things back up and running, everyone decided that super-crazy magic wasn't a very good idea and the new God put a hard limit of 9th level on everything.

3.5's binder class and the 4e vestige pact warlock both had Karsus as a vestige that could be used. It seemed like an important inclusion, even if he isn't actually explicitly named.


The Abdicant: I regret to inform you that Diplomacy is not a formal skill in 5e. Persuasion works, though.
Good catch, thanks, fixed.


The power is "Twinspell - Self only". Works, I guess. To be clear, the spell must be one that can ONLY target you, not one that targets a single creature that happens to be you in the moment, right?
No, the spell/ability has to "effect" you, not necessarily target you, so you could, for example, use it to Misty Step your fighter to a better location. And you do not need to be the only creature effected, nor is the range of "self" a requirement. And the chosen creature (who must not be effected by the spell under other circumstances) is effected instead of you and is treated as if it cast the spell itself, which means you are not actually effected at all. This means you could do something like drop a fireball ontop of yourself and some bad guys, use The Shadow's power to make a creature outside the AoE "willing" and then assign him as your "champion" which means (a) you take no damage and (b) the champion does. It also makes the champion considered the source of the damage, so for example it wouldn't break a charm effect you've placed on the other targets.

These abilities are deliberately designed with broad applications to allow for exactly these sorts of shenanigans.


The Guardian: Oh boy, Reclamation could be huge, literally.

The Lost: Spelltheft/Reflection. Iiiiiinteresting.... Nice flavor too. Potentially great with Reclamation.
Yes, the fact that creates a new spell for which you are the caster allows for a number of interesting combos with the other powers. Again, this is deliberate.


The Void: Neat. What's it look like?
I left out explicit "fluff" descriptions for the same reason I left out names. I imagine it would like the black hole from Interstellar, something that warps reality and fills you with a strong sense of "this should not be". Other people might picture it as purple fire or liquid metal or the elemental plane of cotton candy.


The Shadow: Oh boy. That ability could be REALLY powerful. I've made a post once about niche applications of Nystul's Magic Aura, which requires a willing target. This could really kick it up a notch...Wait! If you can cast a spell that brings the dead back to life, could you bring them back against their will!? That would be insane!
It has to be a creature that can see and hear you. It's debatable whether dead creatures are still "creatures" as a defined game term, but they can't usually see or hear while dead, so it's probably a moot point.


The Paradox: Interesting. Especially because Counterspells that enemies use are NOT refunded. Are you refunded material components too?
I would read it as "yes" because "the spell has no effect" would seem to include the consumption of material components. I changed this to make it clearer.


The Indebted: Interesting spin on Blood Prices for spells. Would Paradox Rewind undo the max hp reduction too?
Yes.


The Question: There is some extreme potential here. Especially if you combine it with something that lets you cast spells remotely, and/or Distant Spell metamagic. I just need to mull it over for a while...
I saw this as more of a situational vestige than a "core" or "combo" vestige: real important when you need it, but you won't need it that often. Being unseen is a powerful counter for spellcasters, so a vestige that could help with that problem seemed like a good idea. I also wanted something for my "detective" warlocks. It's a weird niche that warlocks are oddly adept at given how many of their spells and invocations seemed oriented toward the concept, so this guy has out-of-combat potential that might not set off too many min-max alarms.

That said, I'm interested to hear if you can come up with anything fun. I think there's potential with taking a huge AoE spell, making it even bigger with Guardian's Reclamation, then making it ignore cover with the Answer. Blast a section of a dungeon with a Circle of Death with a 120 foot radius, watch it clear out mooks with little trouble before they even get line of sight on you.


Honestly, I was unimpressed at first, but now that I'm done, I think it's really quite good. If you're worried about it being Multiclass bait, I contest that that's ok. I like the idea of Synergy Warlock. After all, that's kind of the flavor of the subclass in the first place, yeah? If you want to give it a little more individual identity, give each vestige a unique Invocation and/or Boon. That would cement the cool factor, for me anyway.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm on the fence about how frontloaded it is, but I'm glad to hear you think it's good as is.

Lvl45DM!
2020-03-26, 11:39 PM
Disregard.

Phhase
2020-03-27, 03:00 PM
(post)

Wrong thread. This is the Chat Thread, where we talk about the entries. Post it in the other thread, the contest one. Good to see a new face, though!

Lvl45DM!
2020-03-27, 08:27 PM
Wrong thread. This is the Chat Thread, where we talk about the entries. Post it in the other thread, the contest one. Good to see a new face, though!

ah.
oops.
how embarrasing.
Yeah well lockdown is giving me more free time i guess, so filling it with DnD :smallbiggrin:

AdAstra
2020-03-27, 08:27 PM
Being able to have 4 CR1 beasts or monstrosities at your beck and call by level 4, revivable with a short rest, with no concentration, is miles better than any other minionmancy in the game other than perhaps higher level Animate Dead shenanigans. So it's an even more bonkers version of a mechanic that's already very powerful in 5e. As cool as it is to be walking around with 4 robotic Brown Bears, it's not balanced by any stretch of the word. The gold cost is significant, but really isn't a good balancing mechanism due to how DM and campaign-dependent gold acquisition is (It's also not clear whether you get your first machines for free or if you have to build them).

-Selfless giving shield proficiency is irrelevant since Artificers are already proficient with shields.
-Lead from the front gives you extremely reliable advantage on a great deal of creatures (assuming you use Large machines and build for melee). Combo with multiclassing for a crazy strong dip.

For the Shotput ability, does it add any ability modifier to damage, or is it just straight 2d8/4d8? Can't really judge the subclass as a whole until it's done
I like all the options, especially granting some of the less-used invocations. It's a nice way of getting some use out of rarely-seen existing content. It does feel like the subclass starts to falter in the higher levels though. Not much is really added on other than more vestiges (and of course the invocations, so despite the power level increasing it ends up feeling kinda barren.
Interesting mechanics, neat theme, and seems pretty balanced! I like it
I like the three fates reference (assuming it was intentional)! The wording of the Threadcutter's fear ability seems a little odd. If you were to cast a fireball, would every non-fire-immune creature in the radius count as "affected", since the spell does half damage on a successful save?
Overall, feels neat but very unbalanced

Tenets- The two tenets seem, kinda oddly in conflict? The only way to really learn about the planes is to visit them, talk to people who have, or talk to people from those planes who have traveled to yours (barring some exceptions like Contact Other Plane), which kinda violates the idea that everyone should stick to their own plane.

Spells- Seem fine balance-wise, though once again, it does feel dissonant with the second tenet to have spells like Summon Greater Demon and Planar Binding, both of which involve forcing entities from other planes to do things for you, typically not on their home plane.

Channel Divinity- This cool, but also way too strong because it never goes away. You're permanently doing extra damage, or imposing disadvantage with a reaction, or gaining free THP. If it lasted a minute or 10, this would be an excellent CD. As is, it's pretty solidly broken.

Planar Aura- The Astral Aura is basically the Conquest Paladin's 15th level ability, but applied to every attack within 10 feet rather than just attacks that hit you. That's, again, preposterously strong. The other Auras are also extremely powerful whenever they're relevant

Empowered Channel Divinity- You get the choice between the ability to basically lock down an attack-based character every turn, 1d4+10 THP at the start of every turn, or 1d4+5 extra damage on every melee weapon attack, which goes on top of things like Improved Divine Smite. This manages to make a broken ability even more so.

Planar Warrior- Seems fine? Resistance to all damage seems excessive, when compared to what other oaths get. It would probably stand out as very strong if the subclass wasn't packed with even stronger abilities
Fun ways to customize things, especially with spellcasting added on. The lack of any gameplay effect of your animal choice at until level 6 feels a little odd, but the subclasss is already very strong as-is, so it's hard to justify more

nickl_2000
2020-03-28, 11:40 AM
Overall, feels neat but very unbalanced

Tenets- The two tenets seem, kinda oddly in conflict? The only way to really learn about the planes is to visit them, talk to people who have, or talk to people from those planes who have traveled to yours (barring some exceptions like Contact Other Plane), which kinda violates the idea that everyone should stick to their own plane.

Spells- Seem fine balance-wise, though once again, it does feel dissonant with the second tenet to have spells like Summon Greater Demon and Planar Binding, both of which involve forcing entities from other planes to do things for you, typically not on their home plane.

Channel Divinity- This cool, but also way too strong because it never goes away. You're permanently doing extra damage, or imposing disadvantage with a reaction, or gaining free THP. If it lasted a minute or 10, this would be an excellent CD. As is, it's pretty solidly broken.

Planar Aura- The Astral Aura is basically the Conquest Paladin's 15th level ability, but applied to every attack within 10 feet rather than just attacks that hit you. That's, again, preposterously strong. The other Auras are also extremely powerful whenever they're relevant

Empowered Channel Divinity- You get the choice between the ability to basically lock down an attack-based character every turn, 1d4+10 THP at the start of every turn, or 1d4+5 extra damage on every melee weapon attack, which goes on top of things like Improved Divine Smite. This manages to make a broken ability even more so.

Planar Warrior- Seems fine? Resistance to all damage seems excessive, when compared to what other oaths get. It would probably stand out as very strong if the subclass wasn't packed with even stronger abilities


Thanks for the honest review. The channel divinity does say this
"Depending on your choice of planes you align with, you gain the following bonus for the next minute as well as different abilities later on."





I did clarify this ability some.

-Modified the second tenant to make more sense with the spells and the other things that are going on.
-Make it clear the the Channel divinity is only for 1 minute, and the Empowered Channel Divinity is also only active during that same minute.
-Modified to the Plane of Life for positive energy (another name for positive energy plane)
-Reduced some abilities
-Changed the Abyss and Mount Celestia abilities to be unique
-Neutered the auras some
-I left planar warrior alone because it's a capstone and those are supposed to be godlike, and Paladins are even more so. Given the other nerfs I added in, I don't think it is to bad to have full resistances to damage. Also, the any type damage is very fitting, and it is only for 1 minute per day and only on smites. I personally think it is fine as is :)

AdAstra
2020-03-28, 06:30 PM
Thanks for the honest review. The channel divinity does say this
"Depending on your choice of planes you align with, you gain the following bonus for the next minute as well as different abilities later on."





I did clarify this ability some.

-Modified the second tenant to make more sense with the spells and the other things that are going on.
-Make it clear the the Channel divinity is only for 1 minute, and the Empowered Channel Divinity is also only active during that same minute.
-Modified to the Plane of Life for positive energy (another name for positive energy plane)
-Reduced some abilities
-Changed the Abyss and Mount Celestia abilities to be unique
-Neutered the auras some
-I left planar warrior alone because it's a capstone and those are supposed to be godlike, and Paladins are even more so. Given the other nerfs I added in, I don't think it is to bad to have full resistances to damage. Also, the any type damage is very fitting, and it is only for 1 minute per day and only on smites. I personally think it is fine as is :)

Seems good! It's a good theme. There are some weird wordings though, like the Abyss channeling dealing fire damage to the "target". Which, given that it's activated by being hit by a melee attack, implies the "target" is you. Something like "the attacker" is probably more clear. The Astral aura also still comes off as a little weird, since no-save permanent damage auras, even weak ones, come off as potentially balance-breaking. Perhaps an Intelligence save? Those are usually weak on most creatures, while still giving a chance to avoid the damage.

mk333
2020-03-29, 05:48 AM
Way of the Burning Heart

<SNIP - lots of good feedback>

Thanks! I took your suggestions and did some minor updates, like allowing you to fight back when you take psychic damage, and updating some of the wording.

nickl_2000
2020-03-29, 07:17 AM
Seems good! It's a good theme. There are some weird wordings though, like the Abyss channeling dealing fire damage to the "target". Which, given that it's activated by being hit by a melee attack, implies the "target" is you. Something like "the attacker" is probably more clear. The Astral aura also still comes off as a little weird, since no-save permanent damage auras, even weak ones, come off as potentially balance-breaking. Perhaps an Intelligence save? Those are usually weak on most creatures, while still giving a chance to avoid the damage.

Thanks, those are either artifacts of changing to new abilities or from lack of sleep. I will get it cleaned up today

MoleMage
2020-03-29, 04:41 PM
Time for feedback!


So I guess I really need to get the Eberron book so I have the most up-to-date version of artificer. I'll do my best.


Instead of specifically excluding monstrosities with certain special abilities, why not say the machine cannot inherit those abilities? If someone wants a basilisk robot they can have it that way.
Machina Rex's abilities follow a clear order from best to worst in my mind (Lead From the Front > Selfless >>> Iron Inertia). Might split Lead From the Front into two options (the combat option for armor and weapon and an option for mounted combat).
The Infusions have a lot of options, which is good. I'm not sure how powerful artificer infusions are supposed to be, so I can't measure their power level here, but the wording is at least clear on all of them.
Relentless Steel looks okay to me.
Amber Shield: I don't see why this needs to require your highest spell slot when it uses spell slot level in its calculation. By the time you get it, a 1st level spell slot isn't going to cut it (since most everything will do more than 15 damage per attack on average anyway) but may still be worth using.



I think you have an interesting class here, but it looks like it derives a lot of power and I'm worried about the fact that it can pretty easily have 3 or 4 minions right out the gate and hit 5 by level 8, each with its own initiative, HP. It's going to bog down combat and the initiative system already has a slight bias towards larger groups.



Doubling down on the theme here, I like it.


An interesting way to handle oath spells. I don't see a lot of cohesion to the theme in the actual spells offered (especially Speak with Animals, Misty Step, Beacon of Hope). A lot of the rest seem to have the theme of "this spell can be used in two or more different ways", which fits the contest theme but not really the class theme. More choices like Freedom of Movement or Dispel Evil and Good that empower a creature to make their own choices would be better.
Aura of Liberty III is really really nice. One of the biggest limits on nova damage is how frequently you can use Smite; this effectively increases that number by 50%. Plus, you can pair up with a higher-crit-chance class (like Champion Fighter) to crit-fish more efficiently.
Invincible Idea: I know from experience that it is hard to fit a paladin transformation in without strong overlap with other paladin transformations, but this is an appropriate choice.


It breaks with the normal structure of a paladin subclass, but it does so in a deliberate and interesting way. I think it's pretty good, but the oath spells could have a clearer connection to the theme in my opinion.



Some formatting, even if it is just bold for feature names and events in bullet points, would make this stand out better.


New events are the only thing the fighter gets between 3 and 18? Since many of the events are mutually exclusive to use at the same time (such as the Javelin/Shot Put/Discus/Hammer Toss), and others are highly situational (Charioteer will never be used indoors), this means that eventually the fighter is getting no benefit from their class. Also, the total number of events learned is 10, while only 12 are offered. I recommend reducing the number of events learned to one at each stage after 3rd and giving 7, 10, and 15 their own unique features.
Shot put: 30/80 is not a standard weapon range (ones used in the PHB: 20/60, 25/100, 30/120, 80/320, 100/400, 150/600. Note that all except 20/60 have a long range equal to four times their short range). The cantrip-style progression is a little odd, but I think it works.
Hammer Toss: the range is, in addition to being nonstandard, a little outrageous. That's basically the equivalent range of a light crossbow or shortbow. Plus, 300 feet is higher than the current hammer toss world record (where accuracy other than "roughly forward" is not an essential factor.
Discus: I like this one, but once again the range is odd.
Javelin: This is probably the most straightforward one of the weapon events; it doesn't add a new option, just improves an old one. I think it's fine though.
Hurdles, sprinting, wrestling: Exactly what they should be for the event.
Marathon needs to specify what the Con save DC is. While some effects will have one already others (like forced march) are automatic. I recommend a "DC of XX or the effect's DC, whichever is higher." so that very powerful outside effects are still harder to resist.
Long Jump and High Jump: They're different events, but in terms of mechanics they're pretty weak separated out like that.
Pole Vault: Pole vaulters can clear distances a fair bit longer than their poles, and besides plenty of staves and polearms don't have reach in 5e. Also, as a mechanic it steps on the toes of both jump events.
Decathlete: As a capstone it could be a lot stronger. Exhaustion effects are so rare that a lot of tables might never see them, swim speed is very situational. The advantage on saves and athletics are great, and the hour duration means you can probably get it for more than one fight, but something flashier would be nice. A one-hour duration is also very long for a short rest feature.


It's a good concept and the events mostly look fun, but some are clearly superior to others, and many are clearly not meant to be taken together.



Ah yes, the Binder, that wondrously weird class that I never bothered to learn the mechanics of. Fitting it to warlock seems very appropriate.


Binding: You had asked if moving Vestige Powers to level 6 seemed like a good idea and I think it might be. Swappable Spells known and skill proficiencies is probably enough to get by with at level 1.
The current mechanics for vestige spells and vestigial invocation are sufficiently tightly written to not be overpowered, in my opinion.
Your wording on each individual Vestige Power is fairly tight. You have a couple where you use effect instead of affect, but that's just proofreading. The actual effects are all unique and appropriate as well. I'm really impressed by this.


I could break down each vestige, but honestly I think it's really solid as it currently is, other than maybe moving access to vestige powers to level 6. Very impressive subclass.



Surprisingly, in 13 contests we haven't seen an OotS inspired entry yet.


Magical Boon: I would make Magical Boon more akin to Mystic Arcanum where you get the ability to cast your chosen spell once and regain the ability to do so on a long rest, rather than tied into the warlock's original spell slots. I tried something similar with Ki Points a while back and it doesn't work as well as it seems like it should.
Forbidden Knowledge: Interesting, but possibly exploitable. I recommend taking away the ability to use this for initiative.
Fiendish Focus: This heavily favors Pact of the Blade, but none of the previous features suggest that pact will be important to this subclass. Since Pacts cannot be changed out once chosen, this could lead to IFCC warlocks being unable to effectively use one of their best features.
Soul Splice: Needs to show a level for when it's gained (I assume 14).



Overall, it offers a lot of power (basically a warlock equivalent of magical secrets that can be changed out every short rest, which is crazy), but is not as evocative as it could be. I'd like to see it with more connection to the three directors and less open-ended.



You've given your subclass more subclasses! It's like Totem Warrior all over again!


Paths of Thread: Charisma mod per long rest is a lot of uses for the features described here. I'd leave it at one or two static uses, possibly gaining an extra use down the line somewhere. All of the features themselves are good though.
Paths Unwound (Threadweaver): The sorcery points recouped should be based on the relative spell level. As it stands, there's no difference between using a 2nd level burning hands to trigger this (gaining 4-6 sorcery points depending on level) or using a 3rd level. Tying it to spell level difference also means you can avoid creating an infinite feedback loop (a 2nd level slot only requires 3 sorcery points, gaining 4 points from a 2nd level upcast means you can effectively gain 1 sorcery point per round, or enough excess sorcery points for a 5th level spell slot every 54 seconds.
Followed or Formed: The condition for which thing you get is just great.
Thread of Destiny: Unless I have some special temporary bonus to Dexterity saving throws, I can't see myself using this. Even if I maxed dexterity, that's only a +5 bonus, meaning that I only have a 50% chance of increasing the DC of a 1st level spell by 5. To increase the DC of a 9th level spell by 1, I'd have a 30% chance. If the spell went off normally without the bonus on a failure it would be a lot more usable.
Fate Breaker: We looked it up a few contests back and there are not as many spell attack roll spells as it seems like there should be in the higher levels. Even ones that shoot a ray are usually a saving throw after 4th level or so. Upcasting is still a possibility though so I think it would see a lot of use.


It's a good subclass, and other than what I noted above, the choices all seem equivalent and overall appropriate for the level they're gained at.



For such an integral part of the metaphysics of D&D you'd think there'd be more options for planar characters in core.


The tenets and spells seem fine. There's a formatting error in the second tenet as of right now.
Channel divinity: So you have effectively five channel divinity options, but choosing one also changes your other features down the line? I like the idea, but 5 seems like a lot of choices for a class that normally gets 2.
Planar Aura (Astral): This can add up to a lot of reliable damage for an always-on ability.
Planar Aura (Abyss): Can you only redirect from one creature or from all affected creatures?



Why those five planes specifically? Two are outer planes, one's a transitive plane, one's an inner plane, and assuming the plane of life is the positive plane, it's...I'm not even sure anymore what they classify it as honestly.



I've not seen a third-casting Druid Monk suggested before, even when we had a whole contest about borrowing other classes' features.


Primal Weapon: what is the versatile damage die of the quarterstaff? 1d10?
Natural Connection: The wording could be clearer. A rule of thumb: if you're adding extra things to an ability which costs resources, note the additional cost rather than the total cost. In this case, assuming I understand your intent: "When you use your Flurry of Blows ability, you can spend 1 additional ki point to use a druid cantrip you know in place of one of the unarmed attacks."
Wild Style (Fox II) is a little confusingly worded.
Primal Form (Snake) grants resistance to poison and the poisoned condition, but Purity of Body already did that in the baseline monk one level earlier (immunity to both, actually).
Feyral Form: Should be a minute, as it most resembles a Paladin transformation ability.


An interesting take on a more primal monk.



I should replay the Diablo trilogy...


Tainted Ki: What about later ki-spending features? Do you also get extra benefit from Deflect Missiles, or Empty Body? Do those still cost HP?
Haunted Dreams: This is rough. At level 3 a Burning Heart monk has more penalties than benefits, really. I would remove this as a mechanical effect and put it with Demonic Mark as a narrative ability.
Freed on Death should be a 6th level feature, since that's when it starts to actually do something. You can put the description of what the demon looks like escaping before that in Demonic Mark.
Tormented Fury has the potential to be incredibly strong, especially combined with the ability of monks to make so many attacks or to Dodge as a bonus action.
Final Confrontation is a great capstone for the theme of this class.



Overall, I think the class's tradeoffs are too extreme.In practice I worry that either the player will find a way to ignore the penalties in a practical sense (thus becoming too powerful in comparison to the rest of the party) or the penalties will be too much of a burden and render the play of this class unfun.




I tried to do a slasher as a base class a couple years ago. I may revisit my notes based on your stuff here at some point.


Birth of Horror(Hulking Stalker): Hard to mechanically enforce. How many things do you have to be hidden from? Just one? All that could see you? Can you use Cause Fear on a target that was aware of your position while hidden or just one that you've suprised?
Implement of Carnage (Killer of Killers): Eldritch Blast is not strong enough to need to be limited per long rest. This is probably one of the weakest options even if it wasn't limited since you can't sneak attack with it or even add an ability bonus to it, unlike all of the others.
The Reckoning: All of the options are too powerful except Killer of Killers, but Hulking Stalker's resist all physical and The Shape's no limit on sneak attack each round are especially too strong. And for New Nightmare, 7th level spells normally are limited to 1 per long rest (the sole exception of which I'm aware is Monk's Empty body feature at level 18, where the spell instead receives restrictions).
Reboot: There's no limit on use, which means you are functionally invincible.


Some comments that apply to all of the entries:

Choose one attibute to govern the subclass's features, or at least for each villain. For example right now, you have Blood Soaked using Int, Dex, and "highest mental stat". Pick one thing and stick with it across all features.
Everything in Birth of Horror gets a different way to access Cause Fear. This makes a lot of distinct ablities boil down to one spell. Give the class a second feature at level 3 that lets them cast Cause Fear X times per long rest, and build out the individual abilities of the Birth of Horror options.
Compare abilities you pick not just to other rogue abilities but to abilities from other classes. Want to give someone resistance? How do barbarians use it? Not sure how strong an extra saving throw is? Compare Monk.
In 5e, limitations per round are just as important as limitations per rest. If you're going to let someone do more in a round than they could normally, be careful. This goes double if you're letting them do something for no action instead of using their bonus action, especially for classes that rely on bonus action availability like Rogue or Monk.


It's a good theme, and you've got the chassis in place and that looks good too. Just needs some balancing tweaks.

BerzerkerUnit
2020-03-29, 07:56 PM
Some , even if it is just bold for feature names and events in bullet points, would make this stand out better.


New events are the only thing the fighter gets between 3 and 18? Since many of the events are mutually exclusive to use at the same time (such as the Javelin/Shot Put/Discus/Hammer Toss), and others are highly situational (Charioteer will never be used indoors), this means that eventually the fighter is getting no benefit from their class. Also, the total number of events learned is 10, while only 12 are offered. I recommend reducing the number of events learned to one at each stage after 3rd and giving 7, 10, and 15 their own unique features.
Shot put: 30/80 is not a standard weapon range (ones used in the PHB: 20/60, 25/100, 30/120, 80/320, 100/400, 150/600. Note that all except 20/60 have a long range equal to four times their short range). The cantrip-style progression is a little odd, but I think it works.
Hammer Toss: the range is, in addition to being nonstandard, a little outrageous. That's basically the equivalent range of a light crossbow or shortbow. Plus, 300 feet is higher than the current hammer toss world record (where accuracy other than "roughly forward" is not an essential factor.
Discus: I like this one, but once again the range is odd.
Javelin: This is probably the most straightforward one of the weapon events; it doesn't add a new option, just improves an old one. I think it's fine though.
Hurdles, sprinting, wrestling: Exactly what they should be for the event.
Marathon needs to specify what the Con save DC is. While some effects will have one already others (like forced march) are automatic. I recommend a "DC of XX or the effect's DC, whichever is higher." so that very powerful outside effects are still harder to resist.
Long Jump and High Jump: They're different events, but in terms of mechanics they're pretty weak separated out like that.
Pole Vault: Pole vaulters can clear distances a fair bit longer than their poles, and besides plenty of staves and polearms don't have reach in 5e. Also, as a mechanic it steps on the toes of both jump events.
Decathlete: As a capstone it could be a lot stronger. Exhaustion effects are so rare that a lot of tables might never see them, swim speed is very situational. The advantage on saves and athletics are great, and the hour duration means you can probably get it for more than one fight, but something flashier would be nice. A one-hour duration is also very long for a short rest feature.


It's a good concept and the events mostly look fun, but some are clearly superior to others, and many are clearly not meant to be taken together.


Thanks so much for the feedback.

Not sure which iteration you were looking at. Since you didnít mention Discus it probably wasnít the latest.

General response: youíd have to pretty deliberately choose events so there were regular situations where you got no benefit from the subclass, itís expected youíll choose the ones that directly benefit your build focus first. If youíre a polearm fighter, taking pole vault at 3 means youíre looking at a benefit all the time. Further, expertise on Athletics is always on and useful for shoves, trips, and grapples. Same for sprint or the jumps, theyíre just permanent upgrades. Some events are stronger than others but itís very dependent on build focus.

Reducing choices runs contrary to the theme of the class as designed. Some of the events are a means to enhance exploration options, so while youíre likely to acquire all the combat options by 18th (enhancing versatility rather than raw power), it also presents the option of choosing ďthe bestĒ choices and them MCing out. Like just taking Grappling and the jumps to make a Randy Savage Barbarian MC is something, etc. thatís how I interpreted choice for this exercise.

Ranges for Hammer Toss etc were based on actual Olympic records for distances thrown. I figured since fantasy characters are supposed to be heroic those should be the norm.

Shotput is a thrown attack so it should add the stat bonus. Iíll try and add some clarification.

A few events had already gotten an update, polevault among them, pls check them out.

Good heads up about Marathon. Iíll add a DC.

There are 12 events and by design you can ignore a couple based on campaign or build. A polearm Master definitely wants the pole vault and then doesnít particularly need the jumps, but taking all three creates pretty spectacular jumps if you want.
A sword and board fighter has no need for pole vault or Charioteering since both hands will be occupied.

Decathalete- persistent advantage on saves and ability checks is strong and the duration and short rest make this a very reliable ability. I think itís fine as is (until i donít, then I might change it if I have a better idea).

Thanks again!

Lvl45DM!
2020-03-29, 10:24 PM
Time for feedback!



I tried to do a slasher as a base class a couple years ago. I may revisit my notes based on your stuff here at some point.


Birth of Horror(Hulking Stalker): Hard to mechanically enforce. How many things do you have to be hidden from? Just one? All that could see you? Can you use Cause Fear on a target that was aware of your position while hidden or just one that you've suprised?
Implement of Carnage (Killer of Killers): Eldritch Blast is not strong enough to need to be limited per long rest. This is probably one of the weakest options even if it wasn't limited since you can't sneak attack with it or even add an ability bonus to it, unlike all of the others.
The Reckoning: All of the options are too powerful except Killer of Killers, but Hulking Stalker's resist all physical and The Shape's no limit on sneak attack each round are especially too strong. And for New Nightmare, 7th level spells normally are limited to 1 per long rest (the sole exception of which I'm aware is Monk's Empty body feature at level 18, where the spell instead receives restrictions).
Reboot: There's no limit on use, which means you are functionally invincible.


Some comments that apply to all of the entries:

Choose one attibute to govern the subclass's features, or at least for each villain. For example right now, you have Blood Soaked using Int, Dex, and "highest mental stat". Pick one thing and stick with it across all features.
Everything in Birth of Horror gets a different way to access Cause Fear. This makes a lot of distinct ablities boil down to one spell. Give the class a second feature at level 3 that lets them cast Cause Fear X times per long rest, and build out the individual abilities of the Birth of Horror options.
Compare abilities you pick not just to other rogue abilities but to abilities from other classes. Want to give someone resistance? How do barbarians use it? Not sure how strong an extra saving throw is? Compare Monk.
In 5e, limitations per round are just as important as limitations per rest. If you're going to let someone do more in a round than they could normally, be careful. This goes double if you're letting them do something for no action instead of using their bonus action, especially for classes that rely on bonus action availability like Rogue or Monk.


It's a good theme, and you've got the chassis in place and that looks good too. Just needs some balancing tweaks.


Thanks. Super helpful! Like, really really helpful.

I fiddled with all the 3rd level abilities. Went for a more consistent mechanic of Cause Fear, 1 spell and one extra little bonus.
Weakened all the Reckoning ablities.

Fixed that Highest mental stat thing. That was the idea of not forcing High Int Rogues to be a Bloodsoaked at every level, but whatever.
Long rest for Reboot. Like, obviously its long rest, stupid of me not to say that. Also added a level of exhaustion to it, since its about as strong as lvl 20 abilities. I wanted a capstone so I mightve gone a little overboard.
Tried to make every ability use an action, without just cutting into a rogues bonus actions.

Boomstick is now an area of effect attack that knocks people prone, which is good for rogues. I made it focused around Use an Object, so a rogue can use their Cunning Action to reload it. So they can shoot every round but at the cost of being sneaky clever rogue. So they can move to range, shoot, knock the guy down, stab them with an offhand weapon. Then next round, reload and shoot and move. The damage is equal to fireball but in a small area, and easily resistable since shotguns rarely actually score the kill on slasher monsters.

Added a new killer. The Creeper.
Jeepers Creepers, where'd you get those peepers,

SleeplessWriter
2020-03-30, 03:44 AM
Alright, Gravesinger bard is up. I don't have the tales yet, or a statblock for the Spectral Singers, but other than that I feel pretty good about this one. I mainly want to have this class focus on having some eclectic utility options, with a few good defensive or buff abilities thrown in. The choir I think will be able to be played in one of several ways depending on which tales you have; as an in-your-face army that blocks enemy movement to defend the backline, or as a backline themselves that can buff the party or hinder your opponents from afar. One thing I think might be a good idea is to make them stronger the more that are right next to each other, that way you have to weigh the risks of them getting caught in an AoE versus the benefits of keeping them together.

Feel free to chime in with ideas for the tales, so far I'm thinking I'll have The Jack, The Lover, The Knight Errant, The Performer, and The Betrayed. Might add a few more

Damon_Tor
2020-03-30, 09:36 PM
I would have given Killer of Killers a "chain sword" instead of a boomstick. That one line aside, I feel like it's both more iconic and a better fit for a rogue mechanically.

Lvl45DM!
2020-03-30, 11:08 PM
I would have given Killer of Killers a "chain sword" instead of a boomstick. That one line aside, I feel like it's both more iconic and a better fit for a rogue mechanically.

I fundamentally agree. But a) it makes the class more interesting to have a option thats not just "i stab em", b) a chain sword isnt worth it unless they lose their hand if we are going for the iconic angle and c) statting up a decent chainsaw is hard, chainsaws make alot of noise, its hard to justify that on a rogue.

But heres a pitch for Asheys chainsaw hand.

Killer of Killers: The corruption that forced you down this path has caused the loss of your hand. This crippling loss grants you disadvantage on all skill or ability checks requiring manual dexterity, including most uses of Thieves Tools. But your cunning and ingenuity has allowed you to replace it with a techno-magical Whirling Blade. Unlike other Implements of Carnage this weapon is permanently summoned. Normally this weapon acts as a +1 Longsword. However with a bonus action the Slasher can activate it. While activated this weapon acts as a +1 greatsword that can be wielded only using the stump of your former hand. It crits on a 19-20. The sheer power of this weapon overcomes resistance to slashing damage, but not immunity. However while activated, the noise and smoke this weapon creates give you disadvantage on any Hide checks and your position is known to all within 100ft. The Whirling Blade can only be active for 1 minute, and can be activated once per long rest.

Damon_Tor
2020-03-31, 07:14 AM
I fundamentally agree. But a) it makes the class more interesting to have a option thats not just "i stab em", b) a chain sword isnt worth it unless they lose their hand if we are going for the iconic angle and c) statting up a decent chainsaw is hard, chainsaws make alot of noise, its hard to justify that on a rogue.

But heres a pitch for Asheys chainsaw hand.

Killer of Killers: The corruption that forced you down this path has caused the loss of your hand. This crippling loss grants you disadvantage on all skill or ability checks requiring manual dexterity, including most uses of Thieves Tools. But your cunning and ingenuity has allowed you to replace it with a techno-magical Whirling Blade. Unlike other Implements of Carnage this weapon is permanently summoned. Normally this weapon acts as a +1 Longsword. However with a bonus action the Slasher can activate it. While activated this weapon acts as a +1 greatsword that can be wielded only using the stump of your former hand. It crits on a 19-20. The sheer power of this weapon overcomes resistance to slashing damage, but not immunity. However while activated, the noise and smoke this weapon creates give you disadvantage on any Hide checks and your position is known to all within 100ft. The Whirling Blade can only be active for 1 minute, and can be activated once per long rest.

It doesn't have to be for Ash I guess: the one-handed element isn't something we need in our lives. Maybe do Leatherface? I feel like not having a chainsaw is a disservice to the genre.

RickAsWritten
2020-03-31, 10:29 AM
I like the three fates reference (assuming it was intentional)! The wording of the Threadcutter's fear ability seems a little odd. If you were to cast a fireball, would every non-fire-immune creature in the radius count as "affected", since the spell does half damage on a successful save?


Thanks for the feedback. Definitely meant to be referential to the three fates.

The fear ability is meant to work on any creature that you do damage to. Even if they pass the save, they still get hurt and they learn just how skilled at snipping the threads of life a Threadcutter is.





You've given your subclass more subclasses! It's like Totem Warrior all over again!


Paths of Thread: Charisma mod per long rest is a lot of uses for the features described here. I'd leave it at one or two static uses, possibly gaining an extra use down the line somewhere. All of the features themselves are good though.
Paths Unwound (Threadweaver): The sorcery points recouped should be based on the relative spell level. As it stands, there's no difference between using a 2nd level burning hands to trigger this (gaining 4-6 sorcery points depending on level) or using a 3rd level. Tying it to spell level difference also means you can avoid creating an infinite feedback loop (a 2nd level slot only requires 3 sorcery points, gaining 4 points from a 2nd level upcast means you can effectively gain 1 sorcery point per round, or enough excess sorcery points for a 5th level spell slot every 54 seconds.
Followed or Formed: The condition for which thing you get is just great.
Thread of Destiny: Unless I have some special temporary bonus to Dexterity saving throws, I can't see myself using this. Even if I maxed dexterity, that's only a +5 bonus, meaning that I only have a 50% chance of increasing the DC of a 1st level spell by 5. To increase the DC of a 9th level spell by 1, I'd have a 30% chance. If the spell went off normally without the bonus on a failure it would be a lot more usable.
Fate Breaker: We looked it up a few contests back and there are not as many spell attack roll spells as it seems like there should be in the higher levels. Even ones that shoot a ray are usually a saving throw after 4th level or so. Upcasting is still a possibility though so I think it would see a lot of use.


It's a good subclass, and other than what I noted above, the choices all seem equivalent and overall appropriate for the level they're gained at.


Thanks for the feedback Mole. Going through the points:


It's a lot of uses, but all the other Sorcerer subclasses get two abilities at 1st level, so I think it's mostly justified. Because of the different options to choose from, I decided to do one stronger ability instead of two.
Good suggestion. Changing it now.
Thanks. I originally just had a single capstone, but felt that the choices should mean something. You see skill trees a lot in video games, but there aren't any in D&D (5e at least).
Another good suggestion. Revising.
I just went through them all and was super surprised by this. Due to how limited it is and how there is a spell slot cost baked-in to the ability, do you think I could get rid of the "once per rest" limit and just have it as an option for any spell that's cast? Or maybe Cha-mod uses per rest? Also I'm changing the name to Fate's Needle.

nickl_2000
2020-03-31, 10:44 AM
Time for feedback!

SNIP




Thanks for the feedback, I won't get changes in before the end of the contest but I will save them for the long term effects of the subclass.

To the question of why those planes, because when looking through they seemed the easiest to make abilities off of. Other than that there is no rhyme or reason to it.

Lvl45DM!
2020-03-31, 11:36 AM
It doesn't have to be for Ash I guess: the one-handed element isn't something we need in our lives. Maybe do Leatherface? I feel like not having a chainsaw is a disservice to the genre.

Funnily enough chainsaws are relatively rare. Its more of a meme. Anyway, I might just leave it. Maybe ill homebrew a magic item rather than make it a class feature

Damon_Tor
2020-03-31, 04:30 PM
It's hard to imagine a chainsaw would be viable for a rogue, both because of the noise and the weight.

Here's my crack at one:

Chainsword (greatsword)
A jagged chain runs along the length of this weapon, which roars into motion when activated. You cannot attack with this weapon while it isn't active. Activating this weapon requires an action. You can deactivate it as a bonus action, or it automatically deactivates if it isn't being held in two hands. While active, it generates a loud sound that can be heard from 100 feet away and deafens all creatures within 5 feet (including the wielder).

When you hit a creature with this weapon and deal damage, that creature becones mangled, and continues to be mangled as long as you don't miss it with an attack with your chainsword, attack another creature with your chainsword, or become further from the creature than 5 feet. You have advantage on attacking mangled creatures with your chainsword. While being mangled, that creature takes 1d6 extra damage for each time it has been hit by the chainsword since the mangling began.

So the first hit is 2d6, standard greatsword damage, and the mangling begins. The second hit is 3d6, the third is 4d6. If the mangling ends, whether that's because he gets away or because you miss an attack or do something else, it drops back down to 2d6.

Lvl45DM!
2020-03-31, 07:20 PM
It's hard to imagine a chainsaw would be viable for a rogue, both because of the noise and the weight.

Here's my crack at one:

Chainsword (greatsword)
A jagged chain runs along the length of this weapon, which roars into motion when activated. You cannot attack with this weapon while it isn't active. Activating this weapon requires an action. You can deactivate it as a bonus action, or it automatically deactivates if it isn't being held in two hands. While active, it generates a loud sound that can be heard from 100 feet away and deafens all creatures within 5 feet (including the wielder).

When you hit a creature with this weapon and deal damage, that creature becones mangled, and continues to be mangled as long as you don't miss it with an attack with your chainsword, attack another creature with your chainsword, or become further from the creature than 5 feet. You have advantage on attacking mangled creatures with your chainsword. While being mangled, that creature takes 1d6 extra damage for each time it has been hit by the chainsword since the mangling began.

So the first hit is 2d6, standard greatsword damage, and the mangling begins. The second hit is 3d6, the third is 4d6. If the mangling ends, whether that's because he gets away or because you miss an attack or do something else, it drops back down to 2d6.

Ooooh. That has a VERY slasher vibe. Though the 5 feet thing needs tweaking. If you end your turn more than 10 feet away from them feels better. So you can chase them. And since mangled gives advantage SA for days.

Paying advice forward. Take it with a grain of salt.

I salute your creativity good sir/madam!
Wild shape into one beast as a Pact seems like a perfect amount of flavour and utility for a warlock.
Skinwalker especially seems interestingly balanced though dependent on DM giving out gold to use, but thats no different from a Book of Ancient Secrets Warlock.
I think the biggest issue is that youre limited to Beasts or Monstrosities. A Fiendlock might want to end up as a...well...fiend. And Good Warlocks might struggle with having to skin monsters to achieve the higher tiers of power. So maybe Acolyte of the Skin would work if they could choose creature type, obviously restricted from oozes, constructs and maybe dragons/undead. And maybe an alternative to Skinwalker of receiving parts of a creature as a gift. Maybe i help the Pegasi out and it gives me a feather yknow? Something less...murdery.
And just clarifying. You can switch forms infinite times without rest yeah?

AdAstra
2020-04-01, 03:06 AM
Time for feedback!


So I guess I really need to get the Eberron book so I have the most up-to-date version of artificer. I'll do my best.


Instead of specifically excluding monstrosities with certain special abilities, why not say the machine cannot inherit those abilities? If someone wants a basilisk robot they can have it that way.
Machina Rex's abilities follow a clear order from best to worst in my mind (Lead From the Front > Selfless >>> Iron Inertia). Might split Lead From the Front into two options (the combat option for armor and weapon and an option for mounted combat).
The Infusions have a lot of options, which is good. I'm not sure how powerful artificer infusions are supposed to be, so I can't measure their power level here, but the wording is at least clear on all of them.
Relentless Steel looks okay to me.
Amber Shield: I don't see why this needs to require your highest spell slot when it uses spell slot level in its calculation. By the time you get it, a 1st level spell slot isn't going to cut it (since most everything will do more than 15 damage per attack on average anyway) but may still be worth using.



I think you have an interesting class here, but it looks like it derives a lot of power and I'm worried about the fact that it can pretty easily have 3 or 4 minions right out the gate and hit 5 by level 8, each with its own initiative, HP. It's going to bog down combat and the initiative system already has a slight bias towards larger groups.



Doubling down on the theme here, I like it.


An interesting way to handle oath spells. I don't see a lot of cohesion to the theme in the actual spells offered (especially Speak with Animals, Misty Step, Beacon of Hope). A lot of the rest seem to have the theme of "this spell can be used in two or more different ways", which fits the contest theme but not really the class theme. More choices like Freedom of Movement or Dispel Evil and Good that empower a creature to make their own choices would be better.
Aura of Liberty III is really really nice. One of the biggest limits on nova damage is how frequently you can use Smite; this effectively increases that number by 50%. Plus, you can pair up with a higher-crit-chance class (like Champion Fighter) to crit-fish more efficiently.
Invincible Idea: I know from experience that it is hard to fit a paladin transformation in without strong overlap with other paladin transformations, but this is an appropriate choice.


It breaks with the normal structure of a paladin subclass, but it does so in a deliberate and interesting way. I think it's pretty good, but the oath spells could have a clearer connection to the theme in my opinion.



Some formatting, even if it is just bold for feature names and events in bullet points, would make this stand out better.


New events are the only thing the fighter gets between 3 and 18? Since many of the events are mutually exclusive to use at the same time (such as the Javelin/Shot Put/Discus/Hammer Toss), and others are highly situational (Charioteer will never be used indoors), this means that eventually the fighter is getting no benefit from their class. Also, the total number of events learned is 10, while only 12 are offered. I recommend reducing the number of events learned to one at each stage after 3rd and giving 7, 10, and 15 their own unique features.
Shot put: 30/80 is not a standard weapon range (ones used in the PHB: 20/60, 25/100, 30/120, 80/320, 100/400, 150/600. Note that all except 20/60 have a long range equal to four times their short range). The cantrip-style progression is a little odd, but I think it works.
Hammer Toss: the range is, in addition to being nonstandard, a little outrageous. That's basically the equivalent range of a light crossbow or shortbow. Plus, 300 feet is higher than the current hammer toss world record (where accuracy other than "roughly forward" is not an essential factor.
Discus: I like this one, but once again the range is odd.
Javelin: This is probably the most straightforward one of the weapon events; it doesn't add a new option, just improves an old one. I think it's fine though.
Hurdles, sprinting, wrestling: Exactly what they should be for the event.
Marathon needs to specify what the Con save DC is. While some effects will have one already others (like forced march) are automatic. I recommend a "DC of XX or the effect's DC, whichever is higher." so that very powerful outside effects are still harder to resist.
Long Jump and High Jump: They're different events, but in terms of mechanics they're pretty weak separated out like that.
Pole Vault: Pole vaulters can clear distances a fair bit longer than their poles, and besides plenty of staves and polearms don't have reach in 5e. Also, as a mechanic it steps on the toes of both jump events.
Decathlete: As a capstone it could be a lot stronger. Exhaustion effects are so rare that a lot of tables might never see them, swim speed is very situational. The advantage on saves and athletics are great, and the hour duration means you can probably get it for more than one fight, but something flashier would be nice. A one-hour duration is also very long for a short rest feature.


It's a good concept and the events mostly look fun, but some are clearly superior to others, and many are clearly not meant to be taken together.



Ah yes, the Binder, that wondrously weird class that I never bothered to learn the mechanics of. Fitting it to warlock seems very appropriate.


Binding: You had asked if moving Vestige Powers to level 6 seemed like a good idea and I think it might be. Swappable Spells known and skill proficiencies is probably enough to get by with at level 1.
The current mechanics for vestige spells and vestigial invocation are sufficiently tightly written to not be overpowered, in my opinion.
Your wording on each individual Vestige Power is fairly tight. You have a couple where you use effect instead of affect, but that's just proofreading. The actual effects are all unique and appropriate as well. I'm really impressed by this.


I could break down each vestige, but honestly I think it's really solid as it currently is, other than maybe moving access to vestige powers to level 6. Very impressive subclass.



Surprisingly, in 13 contests we haven't seen an OotS inspired entry yet.


Magical Boon: I would make Magical Boon more akin to Mystic Arcanum where you get the ability to cast your chosen spell once and regain the ability to do so on a long rest, rather than tied into the warlock's original spell slots. I tried something similar with Ki Points a while back and it doesn't work as well as it seems like it should.
Forbidden Knowledge: Interesting, but possibly exploitable. I recommend taking away the ability to use this for initiative.
Fiendish Focus: This heavily favors Pact of the Blade, but none of the previous features suggest that pact will be important to this subclass. Since Pacts cannot be changed out once chosen, this could lead to IFCC warlocks being unable to effectively use one of their best features.
Soul Splice: Needs to show a level for when it's gained (I assume 14).



Overall, it offers a lot of power (basically a warlock equivalent of magical secrets that can be changed out every short rest, which is crazy), but is not as evocative as it could be. I'd like to see it with more connection to the three directors and less open-ended.



You've given your subclass more subclasses! It's like Totem Warrior all over again!


Paths of Thread: Charisma mod per long rest is a lot of uses for the features described here. I'd leave it at one or two static uses, possibly gaining an extra use down the line somewhere. All of the features themselves are good though.
Paths Unwound (Threadweaver): The sorcery points recouped should be based on the relative spell level. As it stands, there's no difference between using a 2nd level burning hands to trigger this (gaining 4-6 sorcery points depending on level) or using a 3rd level. Tying it to spell level difference also means you can avoid creating an infinite feedback loop (a 2nd level slot only requires 3 sorcery points, gaining 4 points from a 2nd level upcast means you can effectively gain 1 sorcery point per round, or enough excess sorcery points for a 5th level spell slot every 54 seconds.
Followed or Formed: The condition for which thing you get is just great.
Thread of Destiny: Unless I have some special temporary bonus to Dexterity saving throws, I can't see myself using this. Even if I maxed dexterity, that's only a +5 bonus, meaning that I only have a 50% chance of increasing the DC of a 1st level spell by 5. To increase the DC of a 9th level spell by 1, I'd have a 30% chance. If the spell went off normally without the bonus on a failure it would be a lot more usable.
Fate Breaker: We looked it up a few contests back and there are not as many spell attack roll spells as it seems like there should be in the higher levels. Even ones that shoot a ray are usually a saving throw after 4th level or so. Upcasting is still a possibility though so I think it would see a lot of use.


It's a good subclass, and other than what I noted above, the choices all seem equivalent and overall appropriate for the level they're gained at.



For such an integral part of the metaphysics of D&D you'd think there'd be more options for planar characters in core.


The tenets and spells seem fine. There's a formatting error in the second tenet as of right now.
Channel divinity: So you have effectively five channel divinity options, but choosing one also changes your other features down the line? I like the idea, but 5 seems like a lot of choices for a class that normally gets 2.
Planar Aura (Astral): This can add up to a lot of reliable damage for an always-on ability.
Planar Aura (Abyss): Can you only redirect from one creature or from all affected creatures?



Why those five planes specifically? Two are outer planes, one's a transitive plane, one's an inner plane, and assuming the plane of life is the positive plane, it's...I'm not even sure anymore what they classify it as honestly.



I've not seen a third-casting Druid Monk suggested before, even when we had a whole contest about borrowing other classes' features.


Primal Weapon: what is the versatile damage die of the quarterstaff? 1d10?
Natural Connection: The wording could be clearer. A rule of thumb: if you're adding extra things to an ability which costs resources, note the additional cost rather than the total cost. In this case, assuming I understand your intent: "When you use your Flurry of Blows ability, you can spend 1 additional ki point to use a druid cantrip you know in place of one of the unarmed attacks."
Wild Style (Fox II) is a little confusingly worded.
Primal Form (Snake) grants resistance to poison and the poisoned condition, but Purity of Body already did that in the baseline monk one level earlier (immunity to both, actually).
Feyral Form: Should be a minute, as it most resembles a Paladin transformation ability.


An interesting take on a more primal monk.



I should replay the Diablo trilogy...


Tainted Ki: What about later ki-spending features? Do you also get extra benefit from Deflect Missiles, or Empty Body? Do those still cost HP?
Haunted Dreams: This is rough. At level 3 a Burning Heart monk has more penalties than benefits, really. I would remove this as a mechanical effect and put it with Demonic Mark as a narrative ability.
Freed on Death should be a 6th level feature, since that's when it starts to actually do something. You can put the description of what the demon looks like escaping before that in Demonic Mark.
Tormented Fury has the potential to be incredibly strong, especially combined with the ability of monks to make so many attacks or to Dodge as a bonus action.
Final Confrontation is a great capstone for the theme of this class.



Overall, I think the class's tradeoffs are too extreme.In practice I worry that either the player will find a way to ignore the penalties in a practical sense (thus becoming too powerful in comparison to the rest of the party) or the penalties will be too much of a burden and render the play of this class unfun.




I tried to do a slasher as a base class a couple years ago. I may revisit my notes based on your stuff here at some point.


Birth of Horror(Hulking Stalker): Hard to mechanically enforce. How many things do you have to be hidden from? Just one? All that could see you? Can you use Cause Fear on a target that was aware of your position while hidden or just one that you've suprised?
Implement of Carnage (Killer of Killers): Eldritch Blast is not strong enough to need to be limited per long rest. This is probably one of the weakest options even if it wasn't limited since you can't sneak attack with it or even add an ability bonus to it, unlike all of the others.
The Reckoning: All of the options are too powerful except Killer of Killers, but Hulking Stalker's resist all physical and The Shape's no limit on sneak attack each round are especially too strong. And for New Nightmare, 7th level spells normally are limited to 1 per long rest (the sole exception of which I'm aware is Monk's Empty body feature at level 18, where the spell instead receives restrictions).
Reboot: There's no limit on use, which means you are functionally invincible.


Some comments that apply to all of the entries:

Choose one attibute to govern the subclass's features, or at least for each villain. For example right now, you have Blood Soaked using Int, Dex, and "highest mental stat". Pick one thing and stick with it across all features.
Everything in Birth of Horror gets a different way to access Cause Fear. This makes a lot of distinct ablities boil down to one spell. Give the class a second feature at level 3 that lets them cast Cause Fear X times per long rest, and build out the individual abilities of the Birth of Horror options.
Compare abilities you pick not just to other rogue abilities but to abilities from other classes. Want to give someone resistance? How do barbarians use it? Not sure how strong an extra saving throw is? Compare Monk.
In 5e, limitations per round are just as important as limitations per rest. If you're going to let someone do more in a round than they could normally, be careful. This goes double if you're letting them do something for no action instead of using their bonus action, especially for classes that rely on bonus action availability like Rogue or Monk.


It's a good theme, and you've got the chassis in place and that looks good too. Just needs some balancing tweaks.


Thanks for the feedback! My idea with the oath spells was to try and draw from the divine, natural, and arcane spell lists when possible, representing choice that way. In addition, spells like misty step and bigby's hand were chosen for their value in escaping certain kinds of restraints, as well as spells that had a protective or safeguarding aspect.

Segev
2020-04-01, 12:50 PM
Paying advice forward. Take it with a grain of salt.

I salute your creativity good sir/madam!
Wild shape into one beast as a Pact seems like a perfect amount of flavour and utility for a warlock.
Skinwalker especially seems interestingly balanced though dependent on DM giving out gold to use, but thats no different from a Book of Ancient Secrets Warlock.
I think the biggest issue is that youre limited to Beasts or Monstrosities. A Fiendlock might want to end up as a...well...fiend. And Good Warlocks might struggle with having to skin monsters to achieve the higher tiers of power. So maybe Acolyte of the Skin would work if they could choose creature type, obviously restricted from oozes, constructs and maybe dragons/undead. And maybe an alternative to Skinwalker of receiving parts of a creature as a gift. Maybe i help the Pegasi out and it gives me a feather yknow? Something less...murdery.
And just clarifying. You can switch forms infinite times without rest yeah?


Thanks for the feedback. :) This is the first time I've submitted something to these contests with a really solid feeling about the mechanics, and even so, I feel like I'm risking being overpowered.

Since you spoilered your feedback, I'll spoiler my reply. (Not sure if there's rules for this contest about it, convention, or if it was just space-saving; I haven't got a good feel for the 'way things are done' in this thread yet.)

To answer your last question first, yes, it's at-will, no-rest shifting, paid for by being limited in choice and by gold costs to get new forms. I'm a little unsure if I've overpriced the forms; I could see as little as 100x rather than 1000x, but I figured it's better to err on the side of caution, here.

An Invocation for Fiends (and other Types) might be a good one. Dragons might be fun as a sort-of capstone-level thing. 18th or even 20th level requirement? I hesitate to make it too "clean" to get gifts from other creatures, because there is a hidden cost in real play to having to actually kill something: you lose the potential ally.

The choice of Monstrosities was, however, based on the fact that they are, essentially, "magical Beasts," so seem the most natural upgrade from "only Beasts." While some are fully intelligent, they retain a quality of "animalistic" to them that keeps the Skinwalker vibe.

I almost made one that let you skin humanoids to assume their forms as disguises, using a more "keep your own stats, but you look like them and maybe get their languages and/or one of their proficiencies" approach, but I felt that it was a little too dark for something that other Invocations can already do most of. The disguise self and alter self Invocations handle looking like others much better, and still "fit" a theme with this Pact without being locked to it nor required choices. I feel like picking your type goes into similar territory.

Maybe something in Acolyte of the Skin that gives a "perk" for each kind of Patron. Fiendlocks can skin fiends. Feylocks can do so with Fey, and GoOlocks with Aberrations. Not sure what to do for Celestial Patron and (ugh) Hexblades.

Or maybe it should be a separate invocation that requires Acolyte of the Skin and a particular Patron for each kind:
"Fleshwarper" for GoOlocks, lets them add Aberrations to their options and...something about grafts, I think. Not sure yet.
"Faerie Bargains" for Feylocks, lets them add Fey and get their forms from gifts and bargains with creatures instead of skinning them.
"Inner Demon" for Fiendlocks (alternate name as "Inner Devil" or something for different Patrons), which adds Fiends to their list, but also lets them pick one kind of Fiend that they could hunt and have that become their "true" form. They shed their own skin, which becomes something they can don or doff, and which is replaced like a fiend's skin would be if damaged to the point they can't use it.
Not sure I like this one; the theme is nice, but the power seems too high.
"Last Rites" for Celestial-Patron Warlocks: they add Celestials to their list, and don't have to participate in the killing of the creature. If they find the corpse of one that died within one week per Warlock level, they can perform the ritual over the corpse, and most of the corpse will vanish to the Celestial Planes while an appropriate token is left behind. (Costs are as normal.) Celestials may voluntarily stand for the ritual and be sent back to their home plane, otherwise unharmed, leaving their token behind.
I can't think of anything good for Hexblades. I blame their unfocused, slapped-together fluff that makes no sense.

Damon_Tor
2020-04-01, 01:49 PM
Pact of the Skin

This is rad and I love it, so this is coming from a place of love; this steps on the druid's toes, hard. That's not an unfixable problem, that's just a balance problem, getting the numbers right.

While I sympathize with the idea that the Pact Boon is a subclass, power-wise that just isn't so: before invocations, a pact boon is somewhere between the power level of a fighting style and a feat. Giving a warlock a 1 CR beast form at level 3 (with no restrictions on movement modes no less) makes them more powerful in beast form than a standard druid, and on-par with a moon druid, which is the subclass devoted to the concept. Skinwalker allows the warlock to keep pace with the Moon Druid at every level, for the cost of one of the warlock's many invocations.

I consider the lack of being able to heal the beast for free twice on short rests is a fair compensation for having the duration be unlimited, so I'm not worried about that part.

Gold cost as a balancing factor isn't a good idea; you're putting the DM in the position of having to measure out the gold you get, making sure you don't get too much to make you overpowered or so little you don't get to use your features. Published adventures are all over the place in terms of gold reward: there's simply not a "wealth by level" concept in 5e. Start your character with one adventure and have more money than you can ever spend by the end of it, or start with another and have some cool magic items but no liquid readymoney. The cost a Tome warlock pays for rituals is a poor comparison: rituals are generally not relevant to combat: a Tomelock who finishes Dragonheist isn't going to break anything by filling his tome with every ritual in the game.

In my opinion: You should limit the basic skin to a CR of 1/4, no swim speeds, no flying speeds. This puts you on even footing with a standard druid of the same level. Make skinwalker available immediately, but only allow skins with a CR equal to 1/4 your warlock level and reduce the gold cost significantly, just enough of a cost to keep the warlock from skinning everything it kills and carrying around 20 pounds of furry hats, maybe 50gp per CR. Continue to prohibit swim and flight speeds. You can have the swim speeds and flying speeds unlock at levels 4 and 8 automatically if you like, but I would probably require their own invocations if it were me.

And I agree with Lvl45DM, patron-specific invocations allowing for appropriate non-beast forms is a good idea, but I also think the limit of 1/4 warlock level CR should be enforced at all levels and there should be a limit set on skins that get spellcasting as a part of their stat block. Maybe you can use skins to access spells you couldn't ordinarily, but you still need to use your normal spell slots to cast them, and thus need to have spell slots of an appropriate level. So a feylock could turn into a pixie (CR 1/4) at any level assuming he has the appropriate invocation and has skinned one (or whatever), and would have access to all the pixie's normal spells, but would have to use his own slots to cast them, and could not cast the higher level spells (such as polymorph) until he had the spell slots with which to do so.

I'll also agree with another one of Lvl45DM's points, maybe an explicit "skinning" shouldn't be necessary in all cases. I would think each patron would have its own specific invocation allowing that patron's creature types form to be worn, and the specific rules for those particular skins can be outlined in those invocations. So the Fiend would have different rules and procedures for wearing fiends than the Archfey would for wearing fey.

Segev
2020-04-01, 02:36 PM
I rather dearly want it to have the swim or fly speed; that's one of the primary reasons it is, by default, only one form, and they have to wait a couple levels before Invocations let them get more than one.

Putting the fly/swim speed restrictions on Invocation-granted forms acquired by hunting is pretty reasonable.

The gp-cost thing is something I feel is valid - in part for the reason you, Damon_Tor, point out that it's there to keep them from getting 500 fur hats - because not only the Tomelock but also Wizards have a similar gate to their power expansion. But I will consider the clipping to 50 gp per CR (minimum 50 gp).

1/4 Warlock level is not a bad limitation. I'll point out that that's still just shy of CR 1 at level 3, meaning CR 1/2 is still on the table. I think that restricts the Giant Spider, but (barring the flight limit) would allow a Giant Owl.

Damon_Tor
2020-04-01, 03:35 PM
I rather dearly want it to have the swim or fly speed; that's one of the primary reasons it is, by default, only one form, and they have to wait a couple levels before Invocations let them get more than one.

You could have flying forms require their own invocation, one that isn't level gated. So they'd they'd be able to fly (or swim) with it right out of the box, but it would come at an opportunity cost. I still don't think that would be fair to druids, but at least it would feel more fair.


The gp-cost thing is something I feel is valid - in part for the reason you, Damon_Tor, point out that it's there to keep them from getting 500 fur hats - because not only the Tomelock but also Wizards have a similar gate to their power expansion. But I will consider the clipping to 50 gp per CR (minimum 50 gp).

Wizards have their full range of power with zero gold: the spells they add to their spellbook at each levelup are entirely free. That means they will always have enough spells to prepare their full allotment everyday and still have plenty left over. What they gain by spending gold is more options, not more power. A warlock level 9 who can spend 3000 gold can become a polar bear, a warlock who cannot spend that gold cannot. Any wizard who wants to take Polymorph at level 7 can add it to their spellbook for free: he only needs to spend gold if he wants Polymorph AND two other 4th level spells.


1/4 Warlock level is not a bad limitation.

It isn't far off, it's better than a vanilla druid can manage at that level, but still worse than a moon druid, and I think that's the sweet spot you should be aiming for.

Segev
2020-04-01, 04:39 PM
You could have flying forms require their own invocation, one that isn't level gated. So they'd they'd be able to fly (or swim) with it right out of the box, but it would come at an opportunity cost. I still don't think that would be fair to druids, but at least it would feel more fair.I was really hoping that a Pact of the Skin warlock who took no specialty invocations for it would have one singular form that might be acquatic or avian if he chose, but I do see your point.

Part of where I'm coming from on giving Warlocks a leg up in some areas of this is precedent with a mere INVOCATION overshadowing an entire subclass from level 2-10: Misty Visions, single-handedly, makes a Warlock a superior illusionist to the Illusionist from levels 2-4, and from levels 6-10 it just takes minor illusion to provide sound for it to keep up and stay ahead of major image and its not-at-will casting limitation. It's not until major image can be made permanent at 11th level that the Illusionist finally truly catches up with and overtakes the Warlock with Misty Visions and minor illusion.

So giving a Warlock flight/swimming early and an at-will change to one specific form (where druids have any form they have ever seen, within certain limits) feels just the right amount of "unfair" to me. Though giving it as an Invocation tax might also work.


Wizards have their full range of power with zero gold: the spells they add to their spellbook at each levelup are entirely free. That means they will always have enough spells to prepare their full allotment everyday and still have plenty left over. What they gain by spending gold is more options, not more power. A warlock level 9 who can spend 3000 gold can become a polar bear, a warlock who cannot spend that gold cannot. Any wizard who wants to take Polymorph at level 7 can add it to their spellbook for free: he only needs to spend gold if he wants Polymorph AND two other 4th level spells.Maybe having each Invocation give a freebie form, so that the gold to add new ones is like the wizard's spellbook expansions, would do it?


It isn't far off, it's better than a vanilla druid can manage at that level, but still worse than a moon druid, and I think that's the sweet spot you should be aiming for.Agreed, that's a good spot. I'm aiming for an overlap where the warlock has some perks the druid doesn't, but can't do everything the druid can, and where the druid will leave him behind at higher levels. Or at least take a truly distinct direction.


Edit: Redid it, incorporating suggestions given. Reduced things to 1/4 level CR, and added "free" forms to the expansion Invocations as well as altering the costs. I think Fleshwarper might be a little too much, but it really just is more choices until you start hunting down the Big Three aberrations for their body parts.

Segev
2020-04-03, 03:39 PM
I feel I should do my best to give my own feedback on classes. I apologize to the Mechanist; I don't know the Artificer well enough to comment on the subclass.

I've only got time to comment on the Oath of Volition for now, so more will come later!

Oath of Volition

I like the theme, here, and how it is a nod to the contest theme in and of itself. The idea of upholding agency and responsibility together seem very Paladin to me.

Oath Spells
The notion of being able to prepare from a very limited list what your Oath Spells are is a unique one for Paladins (or Domain Clerics, or Land Druids, or....) and plays interestingly with the theme of making a choice. I can already see that the choice here is not in the build but at a particular time.

That said, some of the spells in the list seem...off...to me. Speak with animals doesn't make a lot of sense outside of the "be creative" admonishment from one of the Oath Tennets, and that particular justification could justify literally any spell. I think this is an athematic choice. I feel similarly about Bigby's hand, which has little to do with the idea of choice, freedom, or responsibility. The biggest offender, though, is blindness/deafness, which seems to me to fly in the face of the themes of the subclass by denying others' agency through restricting their ability to make informed choices.

I would suggest replacing speak with animals with something that grants more mobility, like jump, longstrider, or expeditious retreat. Maybe calm emotions or augury in place of blindness/deafness; the former clears heads and enables more rational and thus responsible decision-making, while the latter gives more information and thus increases agency. I think awaken, commune, or scrying would fit better than Bigby's hand, for different reasons.

Channel Divinity
Each of these options seems reasonable for the theme. But just adding a third option isn't adding "choice," but rather versatility and power. It's a little awkward, but I might suggest that they must pick 2 of the three at the start of each day. Perhaps their list of Oath Spells depends on which one they do not choose, rather than being a mix-and-match grab-bag, as well? This would make there be a meaningful choice each morning, as their spells are thematically linked to the two Channels they chose to have.

Aura of Liberty
I like this; it works as-is. You might consider, if you take my suggestion of linking spells to the two Channels they chose, linking an aura to the two of them, as well. Make it one big choice each day. But that's for thematic reasons, not for balance ones, unlike my suggestion about making them pick 2/3 of the Channels.

Inexorable March
I like the movement part of this. I like it a lot; it is evocative with the name and suits the theme of the subclass. But I feel like the attack options at the end are...tacked-on. Shoving people feels more like something the Unstoppable Charge divinity channel is about; there's nothing "inexorably marching" about it, and grappling, while potent, once again feels the opposite of what this subclass is about: grappling is enforcing your will on others, seizing control of their movement from them.

I suggest an alternative:

Starting at 15th level, you can ignore difficult terrain, including aerial hazards that would interfere with flight. When you move through it, you may select any number of creatures you can see. Your undaunted determination inspires them if they wish to follow you, and they may treat terrain through which you've moved as if it were normal (not difficult) for the next minute. If you are mounted, this feature applies to your mount and terrain through which it moves. When you use your Unstoppable Charge channel divinity, you can try to Shove any creature you hit with a melee weapon attack as a result of that action, even if you hit multiple creatures.

I removed all grapple stuff from it, and gave it a way to allow the paladin to increase the volition of others by letting them follow his example if they choose. Also did something with flying, because by this level, flight is a thing that happens.

Invincible Idea
This one's pretty cool. Here's where you could unlock access to all three Channel Divinities while it's active, or something similar.

AdAstra
2020-04-04, 09:47 AM
I feel I should do my best to give my own feedback on classes. I apologize to the Mechanist; I don't know the Artificer well enough to comment on the subclass.

I've only got time to comment on the Oath of Volition for now, so more will come later!

Oath of Volition

I like the theme, here, and how it is a nod to the contest theme in and of itself. The idea of upholding agency and responsibility together seem very Paladin to me.

Oath Spells
The notion of being able to prepare from a very limited list what your Oath Spells are is a unique one for Paladins (or Domain Clerics, or Land Druids, or....) and plays interestingly with the theme of making a choice. I can already see that the choice here is not in the build but at a particular time.

That said, some of the spells in the list seem...off...to me. Speak with animals doesn't make a lot of sense outside of the "be creative" admonishment from one of the Oath Tennets, and that particular justification could justify literally any spell. I think this is an athematic choice. I feel similarly about Bigby's hand, which has little to do with the idea of choice, freedom, or responsibility. The biggest offender, though, is blindness/deafness, which seems to me to fly in the face of the themes of the subclass by denying others' agency through restricting their ability to make informed choices.

I would suggest replacing speak with animals with something that grants more mobility, like jump, longstrider, or expeditious retreat. Maybe calm emotions or augury in place of blindness/deafness; the former clears heads and enables more rational and thus responsible decision-making, while the latter gives more information and thus increases agency. I think awaken, commune, or scrying would fit better than Bigby's hand, for different reasons.

Channel Divinity
Each of these options seems reasonable for the theme. But just adding a third option isn't adding "choice," but rather versatility and power. It's a little awkward, but I might suggest that they must pick 2 of the three at the start of each day. Perhaps their list of Oath Spells depends on which one they do not choose, rather than being a mix-and-match grab-bag, as well? This would make there be a meaningful choice each morning, as their spells are thematically linked to the two Channels they chose to have.

Aura of Liberty
I like this; it works as-is. You might consider, if you take my suggestion of linking spells to the two Channels they chose, linking an aura to the two of them, as well. Make it one big choice each day. But that's for thematic reasons, not for balance ones, unlike my suggestion about making them pick 2/3 of the Channels.

Inexorable March
I like the movement part of this. I like it a lot; it is evocative with the name and suits the theme of the subclass. But I feel like the attack options at the end are...tacked-on. Shoving people feels more like something the Unstoppable Charge divinity channel is about; there's nothing "inexorably marching" about it, and grappling, while potent, once again feels the opposite of what this subclass is about: grappling is enforcing your will on others, seizing control of their movement from them.

I suggest an alternative:

Starting at 15th level, you can ignore difficult terrain, including aerial hazards that would interfere with flight. When you move through it, you may select any number of creatures you can see. Your undaunted determination inspires them if they wish to follow you, and they may treat terrain through which you've moved as if it were normal (not difficult) for the next minute. If you are mounted, this feature applies to your mount and terrain through which it moves. When you use your Unstoppable Charge channel divinity, you can try to Shove any creature you hit with a melee weapon attack as a result of that action, even if you hit multiple creatures.

I removed all grapple stuff from it, and gave it a way to allow the paladin to increase the volition of others by letting them follow his example if they choose. Also did something with flying, because by this level, flight is a thing that happens.

Invincible Idea
This one's pretty cool. Here's where you could unlock access to all three Channel Divinities while it's active, or something similar.

In this case speak with animals felt to me as a useful intelligence-gathering and "diplomacy" spell (If you can talk with animals, you can generally reason with them, so long as you can bring something to the negotiating table), as well as filling in the "nature-y" option that I wanted to have for each spell level (I tried to have one spell of the three options be Arcane, Divine, and Natural/Druidic magic respectively). I agree on the other spells, though.

I would prefer not to link any of the choices, since that by definition kinda removes choice, but yeah, some kind of restriction on the channel divinities might be good. Perhaps rather than selecting two, you can only use each option once per long rest? That gives flexibility while keeping things balanced and forcing a little variety and planning.

I like the idea of suppressing difficult terrain! If I were to add the flight component, I would definitely prefer to include more means of utilizing it, so I might add Fly to the Oath spell options. I think I'll keep the charge component, though yeah, getting rid of the grapple's a good idea. Overall this was the hardest component for me, I could never think of something that felt sufficiently cool and useful.

Segev
2020-04-04, 02:52 PM
The way I see it, this is about MAKING a choice as much as having choices. And that kind of ties in to the idea of responsibility, too.

The linking of options together gives more weight to each choice. In particular, if your going for themes in the spells, it makes sense to have those themes be the categorical choice you make. You donít have to link any of it. But if you link the spells, I think it would make the choice more weighty.

Up to you though, really just explaining m that trying to persuade here.

Phhase
2020-04-04, 07:38 PM
Machinist changelog!

Max total CR of your horde has been reduced to 1/2 your artificer level (Fractions permissible).

Selfless now grants heavy armor proficiency instead of redundant shield proficiency.

Lead from the front no longer provides heavy armor proficiency.

Amber Shield no longer explicitly requires your highest level slot.


Would changing Iron Interia to granting immunity to immobilization effects bee too good? I imagine it would. What if it also prevented the machines from going any faster than their base speed as well? You know, the slow, inexorable march.

Feedback!


Does this count as a subclass? I'm not sure, but I'll leave that question to others.

This has a real Druid-in-a-can flavor. A sort of Native American Shaman kinda thing. It's interesting. It starts out kinda weak, but at the end, Fleshwarper is uh, pretty good. Skinwalker is also a huge value pick. Are you sure you want to wait until 18th level to allow spellcasting in skinform? While Druid is that way, this effect is slightly less powerful than Druid's Wild Shape, I think.

It's quite interesting. Need to chew it for a while. See it in play.



I see what you're doing, and is looks cool, but imma wait until its done to give a proper whack.



Visage
Good idea, could be a little simpler though. I once created a race that had to make a skill check to not use Indimidation when making a social skill check. Perhaps this could spin in a similar direction? Head's a bit foggy on this atm.

Rising
Add some spacing so it's a bit easier to read.

Stalker: Good idea. This skews a little toward races that have darkvision, though.

Nightmare: Looks good.

Shape: A bit niche (How often is an NPC gonna roll Insight on you?). Nondetection is interesting.

Carrie Soaked: Looks decent.

Creeper: Now this is pretty interesting. Would you consider adding a locate creature effect?

Double Murderer: Totally tubular. Looks fine.

Carnage
General question: that thing that bladelock does where you can designate a magical weapon as your pact weapon. If, for example, you took the hulking stalker longsword thing and then found a magical longsword. Could you use that instead?

Stalker: Solid.

Nightmare: Is this...good? I'm uncertain.

Shape: Simple, but it works. Would you consider increasing crit range with daggers? Also, general question applies.

Soaked: It's fine.

Creeper: Oof, depending on what kind of weapons are permissible, this could be quite the power. Swiss army knife, huh?

Double Murderer: Awesome, but I'd consider bullets piercing damage. Sure they're not sharp, but they do put holes in things.

The Return
Can I just say that I quite like how you can mix and match these aspects?

Stalker: So wait, just to be clear, you become resistant to all damage, all the time, except psychic and either radiant or necrotic? This seems a bit powerful. Though admittedly, Rogue doesn't have a ton of HP.

Nightmare: Clarify when the effect wears off. Is it at the end of the turn that you attacked, or at the beginning of your next turn? Also, one free attack seems a bit weak. Consider adding a fear effect or something to do with the Nightmare spell.

Shape: Cool and good.

Soaked: It's fine.

Creeper: Does this work with a bag of rats, for example? And can the effect be dismissed? Does it have any limitations?

Double Murderer: Quite powerful, but I think ok.

Reboot
Using your Dex mod seems a bit odd. What about having the option to roll a few Hit Dice? Otherwise looks fine, but to be clear, if you use this ability, and then are killed again, you die for real, right?

Lvl45DM!
2020-04-04, 11:45 PM
Would changing Iron Interia to granting immunity to immobilization effects bee too good? I imagine it would. What if it also prevented the machines from going any faster than their base speed as well? You know, the slow, inexorable march.

That seems way too good. Maybe ignoring difficult terrain?

Feedback!





Visage
Good idea, could be a little simpler though. I once created a race that had to make a skill check to not use Indimidation when making a social skill check. Perhaps this could spin in a similar direction? Head's a bit foggy on this atm.

Maybe? I dunno, Im not sure. Its a finnicky concept.


Rising
Add some spacing so it's a bit easier to read.

Done


Stalker: Good idea. This skews a little toward races that have darkvision, though.

Nightmare: Looks good.

Shape: A bit niche (How often is an NPC gonna roll Insight on you?). Nondetection is interesting.

Carrie Soaked: Looks decent.

Creeper: Now this is pretty interesting. Would you consider adding a locate creature effect?

Double Murderer: Totally tubular. Looks fine.

Rogues in general skew towards darkvision. Hell DnD skews towards darkvision if you ask me.
If your PC's arent lying to NPC's then we are playing very different games haha.
Locate Creature is higher level than the other abilities of which the highes is 3rd with Nondetection, which is already pushing it. Plus, its not as fun as hunting them down with your nose.


Carnage
General question: that thing that bladelock does where you can designate a magical weapon as your pact weapon. If, for example, you took the hulking stalker longsword thing and then found a magical longsword. Could you use that instead?

Stalker: Solid.

Nightmare: Is this...good? I'm uncertain.

Shape: Simple, but it works. Would you consider increasing crit range with daggers? Also, general question applies.

Soaked: It's fine.

Creeper: Oof, depending on what kind of weapons are permissible, this could be quite the power. Swiss army knife, huh?

Double Murderer: Awesome, but I'd consider bullets piercing damage. Sure they're not sharp, but they do put holes in things.


No to the bladelock thing in general though I added it as the new 13th level ability for the Shape. The bladelock thing would only work for Hulking Stalker and The Shape, and be way too strong compared to the rest on the Creeper, while Killer of Killers, Blood Soaked, New Nightmare and my new Cannibal wouldnt benefit at all.


The Return
Can I just say that I quite like how you can mix and match these aspects?

Stalker: So wait, just to be clear, you become resistant to all damage, all the time, except psychic and either radiant or necrotic? This seems a bit powerful. Though admittedly, Rogue doesn't have a ton of HP.

Nightmare: Clarify when the effect wears off. Is it at the end of the turn that you attacked, or at the beginning of your next turn? Also, one free attack seems a bit weak. Consider adding a fear effect or something to do with the Nightmare spell.

Shape: Cool and good.

Soaked: It's fine.

Creeper: Does this work with a bag of rats, for example? And can the effect be dismissed? Does it have any limitations?

Double Murderer: Quite powerful, but I think ok.


Yes! Yes you can say that! Please do and thank you!
Ive added a limit to Hulking Stalkers resistance. Now you can't just wade in at the start, you have to rack up a kill first. Explains why he spends the first half of every movie lurking in the shadows really and killing side-characters.
New Nightmare is tweaked, and the Nightmare ability is added. I can't believe i didnt think of that! Thanks.
Changed the Shape, oh well.
Ugh. Bags of Rats. Stupid. I added a CR limit. It must be a WORTHY foe.
That one is all about the campaign. Hopefully though youll run into at least a few of those monsters, but not exclusively.

Reboot
Using your Dex mod seems a bit odd. What about having the option to roll a few Hit Dice? Otherwise looks fine, but to be clear, if you use this ability, and then are killed again, you die for real, right?

Again. Duh! Can't believe i didn't think of that. Thanks again. And yeah. The killer always comes back, but only at the very end. You take him down again, he goes down!

Added my final killer, with thanks to Damon_Tor for pushing me too. *revs chainsaw*

Lvl45DM!
2020-04-08, 02:20 AM
So, uh, voting thread?

MoleMage
2020-04-08, 02:55 AM
So, uh, voting thread?

Oh dip that was this week. My bad, everyone. Please see the voting thread here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?610126-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XIV-Voting-Thread&p=24440789#post24440789

I didn't count the half a week delay against the normal duration.

MoleMage
2020-04-27, 05:31 PM
Alright it's that day again where I tally the votes. We had a surprising spread this time around, with everyone getting at least 1 point and no clear breakaway. That said, we still have enough to call out winners, and here they are!

In third place with 12 points, MoleMage's Juggler! Be a trickster, a performer, or just a menace with thrown swords (or potions, arrows, daggers, or fire)!

In second place, with 12 points and the tiebreaker of more 1st place votes, it's mk333's Way of the Burning Heart! Redeem that demon residing in your soul, or embrace its cursed power, the choice is yours!

And in first place, with 15 points, it's those most modular of warlock patrons, the Vestiges, by Damon_Tor! How many ability combos can you find?


In the realm of next theme, we also had a surprisingly diverse vote; that said we will be taking The Pen is Mightier than the Sword as our next contest idea; The Band was our runner up and will be included in next contest's theme pool.

Voting is concluded! Excellent batch of entries all around.

New thread is currently being built, should be up in 20 minutes or so. EDIT: Or now! https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?611180-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XV-The-Pen-is-Mightier-than-the-Sword&p=24475701#post24475701

Damon_Tor
2020-04-27, 09:01 PM
Three way tie going into the last vote? Excellent work everyone, and I'm glad you liked what I came up with.

For this next one, I'm having a hard time thinking of anything except that one episode of Celebrity Jeopardy on SNL.

MoleMage
2020-04-27, 09:31 PM
Three way tie going into the last vote? Excellent work everyone, and I'm glad you liked what I came up with.

For this next one, I'm having a hard time thinking of anything except that one episode of Celebrity Jeopardy on SNL.

I hear it in my head every time I have to type it out.

Segev
2020-04-27, 10:39 PM
Hm. So, if I understand the next topic/theme, it's anything to do with writing or wordcraft? Geometer from 3.5 would have fit in, for instance? (Not going for that one, as it wouldn't be original, but it's an example.) Is the wizard in general? Obviously, being "a wizard subclass" by itself wouldn't suffice.

Ironically, Pact of the Tome probably fits (except I have learned that people don't consider Pacts to be subclasses).

Lvl45DM!
2020-04-28, 12:29 AM
WELP I did mine. Lockdown is killing me haha. Any advice is appreciated. Particularly regarding strength. Dont want it too weak or strong.

The way I read the theme is that it has to be a class that focuses on writing. Pact of the Tome and Wizard are both good starts, but obviously you'd need a little more oomph. Tome of Ancient Secrets Invocation is closer to this than just the Tome Pact honestly. And Wizard writes sure, but like a wizard subclass would be about writing down his spells every day instead of memorising them, and reading every spell from a scroll.

Im trying to come up with an idea for every class. Some are harder than others. Monk and Druid are eluding me. Would being a tattooed monk count?

Segev
2020-04-28, 01:30 AM
WELP I did mine. Lockdown is killing me haha. Any advice is appreciated. Particularly regarding strength. Dont want it too weak or strong.

The way I read the theme is that it has to be a class that focuses on writing. Pact of the Tome and Wizard are both good starts, but obviously you'd need a little more oomph. Tome of Ancient Secrets Invocation is closer to this than just the Tome Pact honestly. And Wizard writes sure, but like a wizard subclass would be about writing down his spells every day instead of memorising them, and reading every spell from a scroll.

Im trying to come up with an idea for every class. Some are harder than others. Monk and Druid are eluding me. Would being a tattooed monk count?

I like the inspiration for it; Hero is a great movie for the majority of it.

The theme is clear throughout. I worry that it is fighting itself as it progresses, though: you give wisdom replacing strength to various things as they level from 3rd through 7th. This means they need strength or need to be a finesse fighter for levels 1 and 2, and then abruptly no longer need strength or switch to bigger weapons at level 3. The level seven shift isnít as bad, assuming grappling and other physical skill checks were of minor importance but now are climbing.

This... might work, anyway. Dex shift to Wis and bigger weapons...it does want mid to high Dex for its armor class after level 3. So giving them wis instead of strength just lets them upgrade from finesse weapons. Okay, not as bad as I initially feared.

Lvl45DM!
2020-04-28, 01:38 AM
I like the inspiration for it; Hero is a great movie for the majority of it.

The theme is clear throughout. I worry that it is fighting itself as it progresses, though: you give wisdom replacing strength to various things as they level from 3rd through 7th. This means they need strength or need to be a finesse fighter for levels 1 and 2, and then abruptly no longer need strength or switch to bigger weapons at level 3. The level seven shift isnít as bad, assuming grappling and other physical skill checks were of minor importance but now are climbing.

This... might work, anyway. Dex shift to Wis and bigger weapons...it does want mid to high Dex for its armor class after level 3. So giving them wis instead of strength just lets them upgrade from finesse weapons. Okay, not as bad as I initially feared.

Yeah that was my main thought. Dex build, with your rapier and take dueling. Hit level three and grab a long sword. Or pick GWM at lvl 2 and just no use it for a level. Now youre Dex and Wis focused. Youre basically a monk with d10s and action surge instead of ki. Your perception skills get to be high too.

I am aiming for them to be Einhanders, but I bet most who play it will pick up Greatswords and Glaives anyway. I did try to avoid making them archers, that just didnt feel right for the class.

As for the lvl 7, yeah for a long time they will just kinda suck or be average at Athletics. But then boom they get to be either good, or great at it.
Hrm. Maybe i should move the Wisdom save proficiency to level 7? As it is, its kinda front loaded.

nickl_2000
2020-04-28, 06:55 AM
Three way tie going into the last vote? Excellent work everyone, and I'm glad you liked what I came up with.

For this next one, I'm having a hard time thinking of anything except that one episode of Celebrity Jeopardy on SNL.

Sounds like a perfect start for a bard subclass


Voting is concluded! Excellent batch of entries all around.

New thread is currently being built, should be up in 20 minutes or so. EDIT: Or now! https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?611180-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XV-The-Pen-is-Mightier-than-the-Sword&p=24475701#post24475701

Congratulations folks. That's pretty cool that everything was so close.

Segev
2020-04-28, 11:07 AM
Yeah that was my main thought. Dex build, with your rapier and take dueling. Hit level three and grab a long sword. Or pick GWM at lvl 2 and just no use it for a level. Now youre Dex and Wis focused. Youre basically a monk with d10s and action surge instead of ki. Your perception skills get to be high too.

I am aiming for them to be Einhanders, but I bet most who play it will pick up Greatswords and Glaives anyway. I did try to avoid making them archers, that just didnt feel right for the class.

As for the lvl 7, yeah for a long time they will just kinda suck or be average at Athletics. But then boom they get to be either good, or great at it.
Hrm. Maybe i should move the Wisdom save proficiency to level 7? As it is, its kinda front loaded.

Maybe some sort of feature that says, "While weilding a weapon in one hand and nothing in the other, you can" do something akin to the scene of the two characters fending off the hail of arrows while the inspiration for this class worked. I know it's conflating others' abilities into it, but it would fit, encourage the einhanding, and make an anti-archer statement. Not sure where to fit it in, though.


Oh, an editing note: I suggest rearranging how you write your abilities so that the "At X level" is very close to the top. Maybe even just - despite this not being 5e's usual format - having a label on it next to or beneath the title that says what level you get it at. I found it difficult to keep track of at which level they got which feature as I was reading it. Admittedly, it was after midnight and I'm not a night owl despite staying up far too late every night, so that could just have been my reading comprehension level.

MrStabby
2020-04-28, 12:05 PM
SO I threw my hat into the ring - not so much in a competitive sense but because it seems something fun to do whilst stuck in the house.

Not sure what the guidance is - am I allowed to adjust an entry once submitted (a couple of small changes to mistakes I made)?

Also... the role of this thread? Am I supposed to justify my decisions here and to explain anything that might seem odd?



WELP I did mine. Lockdown is killing me haha. Any advice is appreciated. Particularly regarding strength. Dont want it too weak or strong.

The way I read the theme is that it has to be a class that focuses on writing. Pact of the Tome and Wizard are both good starts, but obviously you'd need a little more oomph. Tome of Ancient Secrets Invocation is closer to this than just the Tome Pact honestly. And Wizard writes sure, but like a wizard subclass would be about writing down his spells every day instead of memorising them, and reading every spell from a scroll.

Im trying to come up with an idea for every class. Some are harder than others. Monk and Druid are eluding me. Would being a tattooed monk count?

I love the theme and the feel of the class. I was a bit nervous about it at first as it felt there was less... special about it. A lot of swapping ability modifiers (which I would totally play - it fits what I like in characters) but you are just doing the base fighter stuff but with different stats. At level 7 the potential for double proficiency is mechanically appealing - although a martial calligrapher being a champion wrestler took a min to get my hear round. In terms of power, the first 10 levels are not weak - wisdom is better save than strength to have a high stat in. You also have a good AC potential. There is some synergy between needing dex and wis on a class that gets extra ASIs. Personally I feel that proficiency in wisdom saves might be a bit overkill, especially at level 3 - it just makes things a bit too easy to dip as the early levels for fighter are just so good anyway.

Rhythm is really the only ability I don't like. The bookkeeping needed to track who you have attacked and how long ago is potentially annoying, and replacing one attack stat with another could be a bit fiddly. Thematically, I love the ability but just not sure I would like how it would play out at the table.

Knowledge is a nice modest but useful ability. I admire the restraint.

I like mastery, but I feel some options might be more problematic than others. Wind, letting you do something akin to an area of attack spell is really nice and feels special and unique and a good capstone...

On the other hand, fire seems abusable. Every attack is a critical hit - including those from action surge. Including bonus attack... including any attack from haste... including any bonus dice you have from other features like say a sunblade... add in the ability to pull of brutal criticals with a half orc and your damage is just too high in my oppinion. I get that fighter should be good at this but on a short rest refresh it seems to blow the other fighter options out of the water.

I love the others though.

All in all I think the option is awesome and one of the most tempting fighter subclasses. I love the way the theme works into the abilities as well and I see the short rest abilities as being a really integrated comfortable addition to the fighter base.

sengmeng
2020-04-28, 12:27 PM
College of Arts (and Crafts) is up.

Segev
2020-04-28, 01:32 PM
SO I threw my hat into the ring - not so much in a competitive sense but because it seems something fun to do whilst stuck in the house.

Not sure what the guidance is - am I allowed to adjust an entry once submitted (a couple of small changes to mistakes I made)?

Also... the role of this thread? Am I supposed to justify my decisions here and to explain anything that might seem odd?

You can edit your submission up until the deadline. This thread is for discussing submissions, giving and receiving advice, and generally talking about the contest.


Barbarian Subclass: Runebound Thane

You come from a culture that values its history and you are an emblem of that history. That past deeds of your tribe, their legends and achievements are etched into your skin as tattoos. These heroic descriptions both comfort and inspire you to greater acts of valor and the hope that one day your own takes will be written on you skin next to your ancestors.

Nemesis of the Clan
When you chose this path at 3rd level you are able to bring to mind the threats to your clan that have been overcome by great warriors. When you rage you seek to emulate them by using the same techniques that exposed the weaknesses of similar enemies. Chose one target when you start your rage that is nominated "Nemesis of the Clan"; you learn if that target has any resistances, immunities or vulnerabilities and what they are and until your rage ends your attacks score a critical hit on a 19 or 20.Is the expanded critical range only on the Nemesis? Or period?


Lorekeeper
At 3rd Level, if you do no have it, you gain proficiency in the history skillNice little ribbon.

Not sure if knowing vulerabilities, resistances, and immunities is enough by itself, but if the expanded crit range is for everything, it's probably quite sufficient as a level 3 suite of abilities. That's the biggest perk of the Champion subclass of Fighter, after all, at level 3. Limiting it to "while raging" gives room for the rest of these perks.


Decendant of Champions
Drawing inspiration from the tales of endurance of your ancestors wrought in ink on your skin you have advantage on any saving throw you make against a spell or ability inflicted by your Nemesis of the Clan.This is nice, but very narrowly focused. I suggest also giving Resistance to all damage inflicted by any action taken by the Nemesis of the Clan. Again, because it's just so narrowly focused.


Tales of inspiration
Your tattoos have grown and now include accounts of great courage and leadership. You may invoke these tales to inspire your allies. Each ally within 60ft gains temporary hitpoints equal to your barbarian level and may repeat a save against any spell that they are under the influence of that allows a save to end an effect.How do you invoke these? Is it when you rage? Is it as its own action? Bonus action? Reaction? How often can you do this? At will? Once, then recover on a long rest? Short or long rest?


Mater of the Records
Beginning at 14th level you see the tales written on you skin as being more than just records or a source of inspiration. The writing itself tunes in to your rage and centuries of martial history manifest themselves as devastating psychic attacks. When you are raging you may add d12 psychic, necrotic, radiant or force damage to your attacks (your choice) and when you score a critical hit against a creature it must make an intelligence save (DC 8 + Proficiency + Strength Modifier) or be stunned until the end of its next turn.This is pretty darned powerful. Basically adding the best possible crit die to every attack roll (not even limited to melee). Not sure if it's overpowered, but it's very, very strong.

Also, typo in the name. I think you mean "Master of the Records." Though now I'm picturing a tow truck barbarian.


WIP: Scroll-Specialist Artificer
Basic Outline

An artificer that can use his Infusions to create spell scrolls of spells of a level no higher than 1/2 his artificer level. He can create no more than 1 scroll each of 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th levels. This makes him effectively a full caster at the cost of some of his infusions.

Needs a master scroll "spellbook" to store the spells he knows for transcription purposes, but can't cast them normally.
Learns 1 free spell from the wizard list each level for this purpose. Can copy spells from other sources (scrolls, spellbooks, etc) as normal.
Has no class-based limitations on scroll use
Scrolls you create use your spell attack modifier and save DC
Spells that consume a costly material component require that component when you infuse the scroll, but are refunded if you uninfuse the scroll without casting it.


lvl 3. Tools of the Trade: Caligraphy Tools Proficiency, Bonus Languages (1 bonus language per IntMod, learn a new one whenever your int mod increases, forget one if it decreases)

lvl 3. Bonus Spells: languages, written/drawn effects like magic circle/glyph of warding, synergy with other features

lvl 5. Magic Scroll Case: Protects scrolls from harm in a pocket dimension, lets you draw scrolls as a free action, infinite cantrip scrolls you can cast as a bonus action (note: cantrip scrolls always cast as if charlevel = 1)

lvl 9. Your scrolls are user friendly: anyone can use them regardless of class

lvl 15. You can infuse your scrolls with a second spell, which must be a cantrip. The scroll casts both spells at once.

Infusion Options:
Magic Stylus that allows writing in the air. Ignore verbal components, spells which require a creature hear you requires they see you instead, casts spells with a casting time of >1 round (including rituals) in half the time.
I don't know enough about the Artificer to really give advice, here, but I wish you luck. Is the unique thing about this subclass the ability to make scrolls?



College of Arts (and Crafts)
Bard college

Props
When you join this college at third level, you gain the ability to craft fake paper versions of mundane items. This takes 1 minute and 5sp for each 10gp in the items price, minimum of one minute and 5sp. These items normally cannot function as their real counterparts, but they can be mistaken for real.

Make Believe
At third level, you gain the ability to expend a bardic inspiration die and imbue your fake items with realness through the power of imaginationô. When you do so, you roll your bardic inspiration die and the item lasts for a number of hours equal to the result. While so imbued, you have proficiency with the item if it requires it, and it functions exactly as it's real counterpart.

Crafty Expertise
At sixth level, your imaginationô grows, giving you mastery over the use of your creations. If it is a weapon, you may attack twice when you take the attack action. If it is armor or a shield, you add your proficiency bonus to your armor class while wearing or wielding it (you do not add your proficiency bonus twice if you have both a make believe shield and make believe armor). If the item is a tool or vehicle, you add twice your proficiency bonus to any checks to use it.

Instant Crafts
At 14th level, you may instantly craft as a bonus action. You expend up to all your remaining bardic inspiration dice and may create an item whose normal price in gp is no more than 10x the result of the dice rolled. This item lasts for 1 day per die rolled.
Hm. I don't know if this is precisely on theme, but I like the idea of an origami-master bard. Since papercrafts cost a fair amount of coin for something made of paper, it may behoove you to give an idea of how long they last. Or of their durability when not empowered by the inspiration die. Is the item destroyed after the duration of reality, or just back to being paper? If the former, that answers my earlier question neatly enough.

Why use this, though, when you have to prep the papercrafts ahead of time?

I suggest, to bring it more in theme, that you have the prep work be drawing and painting, and then allowing the Imagination-triggered bardic inspiration die to rapidly fold it (perhaps even magically cause it to fold) into shape. this would let you keep scroll cases full of items, making the storage and the possibility of smuggling things in better, rather than having to carry delicate and awkward (but cheap, one-off) items.


I would let Instant Crafts actually choose how many dice are rolled, too. No need to make it a one-off; if they want to instantly craft an item of only 10 gp, let them spend just one die. Also, do they only have to pick what they're making after rolling? Imagine wanting a 200 gp item (gettable with a 20+ on the roll) but only getting 15 on the roll.

nickl_2000
2020-04-28, 03:00 PM
First draft of Monk, Way of the Shrine Guardian is up.

https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24477571&postcount=7

I believe I have the abilities down well enough, but still need to wrinkle out typos and clean up wording.

RickAsWritten
2020-04-28, 05:09 PM
My entry is up. The red tape festooning, queue loving Barbarian: Path of the Bureaucrat.

Path of the Bureaucrat (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24477594&postcount=8)

MrStabby
2020-04-28, 05:24 PM
You can edit your submission up until the deadline. This thread is for discussing submissions, giving and receiving advice, and generally talking about the contest.

OK, cool. a few tweaks to make.




Is the expanded critical range only on the Nemesis? Or period?

Nice little ribbon.
Expanded crit is just for one creature. I realised that it was MUCH weaker than the champion ability but it came on a class with ready access to advantage. I figured that this was still a lowball ability... So supplemented with a proficiency, to keep the barbarian just a bit more active in the non-combat pillars where I feel the class can struggle.



Not sure if knowing vulerabilities, resistances, and immunities is enough by itself, but if the expanded crit range is for everything, it's probably quite sufficient as a level 3 suite of abilities. That's the biggest perk of the Champion subclass of Fighter, after all, at level 3. Limiting it to "while raging" gives room for the rest of these perks.

Yeah, limit to raging. What I was going for with the class was a barbarian designed to excel at taking down a particular enemy,both alone and with the help of a team. I was wanting a way to represent knowledge from the tales written on the body to contribute to a fight - the extra crit ability was one - a mechanic representing a strike to some critical feature that might be known from a tale. The knowledge about vulnerabilities etc is intended to provide the knowledge to help defeat obscure enemies. I feel that the barbarian is also a bit weak on team support and winning the information war and I was wanting to add an ability to let the player participate in this without stepping on anyone elses toes too much. There is some overlap with battlemaster and ranger though, so not perfect by a long way.



This is nice, but very narrowly focused. I suggest also giving Resistance to all damage inflicted by any action taken by the Nemesis of the Clan. Again, because it's just so narrowly focused.

This is fine and better balanced. I felt that resistance was a bit... unneeded given you got so much from rage anyway and it would be stepping on the toes of the bear totem. Still, with just one creature having the effect it might be different enough.



How do you invoke these? Is it when you rage? Is it as its own action? Bonus action? Reaction? How often can you do this? At will? Once, then recover on a long rest? Short or long rest?
Oops! Yes, I didn't finish writing this. I had intended it to be once per long rest (and bonus action) but I am now leaning towards short rest. I think some of the abilities above have a very tight rein on their power, letting this one out just a little bit more might be good. Thinking through this though, I wonder if it might be better to do something bigger as a single target and as a reaction? A defensive intervention, possibly with a short range, might add a bit more tactical depth and variety to how the barbarian plays. After all the theme is writing, it really should be the thinking person's rage machine.



This is pretty darned powerful. Basically adding the best possible crit die to every attack roll (not even limited to melee). Not sure if it's overpowered, but it's very, very strong.
D12 to every attack will average 6.5 on non crit attacks. At two attacks per turn this is 11, and at 3 it is 19.5. If we assume three rounds of combat and rage activates preventing a bonus action attack on the first round and a 60% hit rate then this would be about 10.4 damage per round. At level 14 the Zealot's level 3 ability would be adding on average 9.66 per round, so less than one point of damage less. Of course Crits will skew it a bit. The stunning ability is a rider that should come up enough that it isn't a waste but not so much it slows the game down.

The main thing I wanted from this level was something that tied together the other class elements - identify vulnerabilities then exploit them with the specific damage type that hurts them. Get bonuses to criticals from the subclass ability and potentially reckless attack and then a boost that synergises with that. I won't argue that this is a strong level, although I had hoped that relatively modest earlier levels would leave a bit of breathing room. Maybe if I add the damage as a d6 earlier then grow it to a d10 at 14 it would lower late game power (personally I feel the barbarian is tapering off a bit at level 14 so a boost plays to my prejudices) and bolster the earlier levels? One change I want to make is to change the force option to fire - it is a classic vulnerability. I am also broadening the level 3 ability to identify vulnerabilities so that it can pick out things such as troll or vampire regeneration.



Also, typo in the name. I think you mean "Master of the Records." Though now I'm picturing a tow truck barbarian.

Good catch!


Thanks for all the feedback.

Damon_Tor
2020-04-28, 05:44 PM
I don't know enough about the Artificer to really give advice, here, but I wish you luck. Is the unique thing about this subclass the ability to make scrolls?

That's the core of it, yes.

Normally, the artificer is a half-caster. His spells known and spell slots progress like a paladin's or ranger's do. This subclass closes the gap, giving them access (if limited) to the spell slots and selection they are missing.

Another design goal is to shed some of the "magi-punk" feel the class has baked in from the Eberron setting, make something that fits better in a more typical fantasy world. I love Eberron dearly, but there's not always room for a guy with a robot dog or walking lighting turret in every story. This subclass is very similar thematically to a wizard, and to some degree he's more grounded, so he should fit in just about anywhere wizards do and maybe even some places they don't.

Anyway, he's done-ish.

Lvl45DM!
2020-04-28, 09:55 PM
SO I threw my hat into the ring - not so much in a competitive sense but because it seems something fun to do whilst stuck in the house.

Not sure what the guidance is - am I allowed to adjust an entry once submitted (a couple of small changes to mistakes I made)?

Also... the role of this thread? Am I supposed to justify my decisions here and to explain anything that might seem odd?




I love the theme and the feel of the class. I was a bit nervous about it at first as it felt there was less... special about it. A lot of swapping ability modifiers (which I would totally play - it fits what I like in characters) but you are just doing the base fighter stuff but with different stats. At level 7 the potential for double proficiency is mechanically appealing - although a martial calligrapher being a champion wrestler took a min to get my hear round. In terms of power, the first 10 levels are not weak - wisdom is better save than strength to have a high stat in. You also have a good AC potential. There is some synergy between needing dex and wis on a class that gets extra ASIs. Personally I feel that proficiency in wisdom saves might be a bit overkill, especially at level 3 - it just makes things a bit too easy to dip as the early levels for fighter are just so good anyway.

Rhythm is really the only ability I don't like. The bookkeeping needed to track who you have attacked and how long ago is potentially annoying, and replacing one attack stat with another could be a bit fiddly. Thematically, I love the ability but just not sure I would like how it would play out at the table.

Knowledge is a nice modest but useful ability. I admire the restraint.

I like mastery, but I feel some options might be more problematic than others. Wind, letting you do something akin to an area of attack spell is really nice and feels special and unique and a good capstone...

On the other hand, fire seems abusable. Every attack is a critical hit - including those from action surge. Including bonus attack... including any attack from haste... including any bonus dice you have from other features like say a sunblade... add in the ability to pull of brutal criticals with a half orc and your damage is just too high in my oppinion. I get that fighter should be good at this but on a short rest refresh it seems to blow the other fighter options out of the water.

I love the others though.

All in all I think the option is awesome and one of the most tempting fighter subclasses. I love the way the theme works into the abilities as well and I see the short rest abilities as being a really integrated comfortable addition to the fighter base.

Thanks, excellent advice.
I do think Ill move the Wis save to level 7 to avoid dips.

The way I see their champion wrestling is less that they pull off amazing Judo throws but more they passively resist. Immovable object type deal.

I hear what you're saying with Rhythm. Thats less based off Hero, and more off the Drizzt Doŕrden books. Often in fights he uses his skill to change how his opponent fights to gain an advantage. Perhaps a static modifier adjustment though. -Your proficiency modifier from their hits?
And the only reason I phrased it that way was to avoid abusing the ability as I initially had it, which was replacing their ability modifier with any other ability modifier. I didnt want them to give their Cleric buddy +Wis to hit and damage. But if i limit it to Str and Dex, thats probably not abusable. I might just make it a reaction to getting hit.

Hrm yes I havent played any high level 5e so Fire does seem strong when you put it that way. Imagine if they TWF! But I do want a non-magical damage boost for Fire, to fit with what Fire means in Chinese elemental philosophy. Add proficiency mod to damage? Considering the amount of ASI's...maybe it allows them to add their Str mod to damage as well as Wis?
Ok how about a Chaos bolt style effect? If you roll max damage on your hits, you get to reroll the dice?
Or how about a cleave effect?
Ill try a cleave effect



Maybe some sort of feature that says, "While weilding a weapon in one hand and nothing in the other, you can" do something akin to the scene of the two characters fending off the hail of arrows while the inspiration for this class worked. I know it's conflating others' abilities into it, but it would fit, encourage the einhanding, and make an anti-archer statement. Not sure where to fit it in, though.


Oh, an editing note: I suggest rearranging how you write your abilities so that the "At X level" is very close to the top. Maybe even just - despite this not being 5e's usual format - having a label on it next to or beneath the title that says what level you get it at. I found it difficult to keep track of at which level they got which feature as I was reading it. Admittedly, it was after midnight and I'm not a night owl despite staying up far too late every night, so that could just have been my reading comprehension level.

Ah thank you. Giving them deflect arrows at level 3 makes up for what is really a lackluster start, since its just switching scores around. And then i can move Wis save to level 7 to avoid dipping issues. Huzzah!

nickl_2000
2020-04-29, 09:10 AM
Feedback, here we go :) Will add another post when there are more subclasses to comment on.



Control - You have a lot going on at level 3 here, even for a fighter. I think there is to much going on personally. I would take away the deflect missiles ability from level 3 and either put it in later or completely remove it. I will openly admit that I don't like this ability given to non-monks though

Balance - This is another level that feels overloaded. I would give athletics/acrobatic as wisdom + prof/expertise OR Prof in Wisdom throws. Not both. Proficiency in wisdom saving throws is extremely powerful on a fighter, so you don't need much else at a level if you are giving that.

Rhythm - This needs to be tightened up some. First thing, you typically don't reduce someone's AC. In the official classes you give the PC an bonus to their attack rolls. As for the reduction of the enemy attack rolls, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me that other PCs would get a bonus. You need something in there that the bonus/reductions are only applicable on attacks you make or are made against you. Also, the "this last until they don't attack you in a round" seems like an odd mechanic. From the aspect of a monster, they wouldn't be smart enough to know about that ability. So, why wouldn't they attack you? Also, this being short rest based means that you will likely always have it up. Either make it last only 1 round or make it long rest based instead of short rest.

Knowledge - Does this turn a mundane weapon magical for the purposes of bypassing magical resistance?

Mastery - For Fire, you may want to add a caviot that you can attack another creature, within reach, immediately. It just clarifies a little bit. For earth and water, what triggers those abilities? Is it a reaction, bonus action, action, etc?


The lore on this is absolutely amazing. It is incredibly well done. Some of the abilities need tightened up or reduced in power though.






You forgot to label the level 6 and 10 abilities.
Tales of Comradeship - This seems really, really powerful. At will reaction to give resistance to damage taken and 10 plus temporary hp. Does it need some sort of limiter in how often it can be given? Personally, I would rather see it allowed once per ally per short rest and have it give 2xBarb level in temp HP.

Master of the Records - This is a heck of a capstone. Stun seems to much personally, especially with an Int save. If it were a level 18 capstone I may not mind, but 14 seems to low for this where there really isn't much cost. However, you need to be raging, hit with a crit, and they fail a save. So, it's probably okay now that I talk it through.


Overall, it's a good take and a new way to go for barbarians, I like it.






I was absolutely thinking of an artificer who use sonic damage as much as possible (TURN THE VOLUME TO 11 DUDE!!)

The domain spells here are incredibly appropriate.

Lexicanum Universalis - Does this still require a check to cast a spell higher than half your level to cast? For example, can a 20th level artificer make a 9th level scroll and hand it to his lackey to cast? This does open up the ability for your entire party to have a familiar and be able to cast Summon (Greater) Steed. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just something to consider.


The other thing I was really hoping to see in this subclass was the artificer who is focusing on scrolls being allowed to use their casting modifier in place of the standard scroll DC/attack. Once you get beyond the original level when casting, the DC is pretty low.


I really, really like this subclass. It's a good fit to the artificer and stretches the class in a different direction. Really well done.





Make Believe - Funny and cool, there is a bit of an exploit though as written. There is nothing stopping you from making armor or weapons and handing them off to someone else. With this a dex based fighter/rogue could sneak attack with a polearm or a great axe. Is that intended functionality?

Crafty Expertise - Woah, this is broken, really, really broken. You could potentially have full plate + dex + shield + prof mod. So, AC of 18 + 2 + dex + prof = 26 AC at level 6 if you have a +3 in dex. This will get even higher as you level more. As well as 2 attacks with a weapon that is finesse no matter what.

Instant Crafts - Can this be magical items? If yes what are the costs?

So, this is kind of silly, and a really fun start. There are a few significant balance issues though and a few questions that need to be answered prior to it being completed and campaign ready. If you can get those fixed, I would adore this subclass.





Special Spellbook - One possible issue here. A Wizard can scribe a prepared spell into their spellbook. So, the ability to prepare a spell that isn't in the spellbook then let's you scribe it into the spellbook. You may want to remove that as an option.

"Mind over body: you become immune to poison and disease. When you are hit with a critical attack you can use your reaction to turn a critical hit into a normal one." Immune to poison, disease, and removing criticals seems like to much. Pick one or the other please :)


Other than a few small issues here this seems like a cool class. I like it :)






Looks like a barbarian. You should mention that. Minor and nitpicky, but worth mentioning

Formulated Rage - While hilarious, this seems overpowered. As an action you can prevent a creature to lose an action at will and it can't be stopped. I feel like you need to make an attack, they need to make a save, or something to prevent this from happening at will.

Other than that, it's a really fun and silly subclass. As a person who has worked in government I can certainly understand how paperwork and bureaucracy can cause one to rage.

RickAsWritten
2020-04-29, 09:19 AM
Looks like a barbarian. You should mention that. Minor and nitpicky, but worth mentioning

Formulated Rage - While hilarious, this seems overpowered. As an action you can prevent a creature to lose an action at will and it can't be stopped. I feel like you need to make an attack, they need to make a save, or something to prevent this from happening at will.

Other than that, it's a really fun and silly subclass. As a person who has worked in government I can certainly understand how paperwork and bureaucracy can cause one to rage.



Ahhh, that's supposed to be "Once during your Rage." Forgot that bit. Thanks for the read-through.

nickl_2000
2020-04-29, 09:34 AM
Ahhh, that's supposed to be "Once during your Rage." Forgot that bit. Thanks for the read-through.

That's so much better! :)

Lvl45DM!
2020-04-29, 11:07 AM
Feedback, here we go :) Will add another post when there are more subclasses to comment on.



Control - You have a lot going on at level 3 here, even for a fighter. I think there is to much going on personally. I would take away the deflect missiles ability from level 3 and either put it in later or completely remove it. I will openly admit that I don't like this ability given to non-monks though

Balance - This is another level that feels overloaded. I would give athletics/acrobatic as wisdom + prof/expertise OR Prof in Wisdom throws. Not both. Proficiency in wisdom saving throws is extremely powerful on a fighter, so you don't need much else at a level if you are giving that.

Rhythm - This needs to be tightened up some. First thing, you typically don't reduce someone's AC. In the official classes you give the PC an bonus to their attack rolls. As for the reduction of the enemy attack rolls, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me that other PCs would get a bonus. You need something in there that the bonus/reductions are only applicable on attacks you make or are made against you. Also, the "this last until they don't attack you in a round" seems like an odd mechanic. From the aspect of a monster, they wouldn't be smart enough to know about that ability. So, why wouldn't they attack you? Also, this being short rest based means that you will likely always have it up. Either make it last only 1 round or make it long rest based instead of short rest.

Knowledge - Does this turn a mundane weapon magical for the purposes of bypassing magical resistance?

Mastery - For Fire, you may want to add a caviot that you can attack another creature, within reach, immediately. It just clarifies a little bit. For earth and water, what triggers those abilities? Is it a reaction, bonus action, action, etc?


The lore on this is absolutely amazing. It is incredibly well done. Some of the abilities need tightened up or reduced in power though.




Im keeping 3rd level as is, since everything except deflect missiles is closer to a ribbon ability. A fighter who hits 3rd level and picks this subclass doesn't actually gain much without it. Now you get Wis instead of Dex or Str, but your Wis isnt going to be higher than other fighters Dex or Str. Your AC isnt going to be better either. Youve got...16? 17? Well they are running around in halfplate. So you're slightly (a point or two) better at perception, and worse at athletics. Compare to x2 crit range, steady aim, battlemaster manoeuvres...

I weakened Wisdom save to just save against charm and I dropped the Expertise effect. I do want a theme of body and mind. Wisdom save was a little too strong. There should be more diversity in saves in 5e.

I changed Rhythm a little. Its simpler but more versatile. Remove their relevant ability modifier from to hit or damage. The other PC's now can't get the help for more than a round. I disagree with the 'not attack for a round' thing tho. Sure a mindless skeleton or animal won't notice, but a humanoid opponent would. But more importantly, it means that it works best in a duel. Its not that helpful in a pitched melee with many opponents and it doesnt help that much against one big monster that the whole party is fighting, since it can just switch opponents. And the other PC's get the advantage because the effect affects the monster, not the Calligrapher. You have thrown off their fighting style.

Fire was supposed to have 'reach' instead of 'round' stupid typo.
Added actions to Earth and Water.

Just realized that my comments on the other subclasses disappeared from my previous post :smallyuk:
I dont think ive played enough 5e to be sure about these so take them with a grain of salt.


I disagree with gaining elemental damage on your weapon as well as information and crit range. Its just a mix of too many different abilities (Like I'm one to talk hah). And I think Stun is the wrong vibe of an effect. What is happening exactly? Your tatts are...stunning it?
So yknow I'd remove the elemental thing from 3rd and change the 14th to "Nemesis makes a save or is vulnerable to your attacks".

There could not have been better spells picked for this specialty :smallbiggrin:
Letting any party member cast any of your spells sounds like the sort of thing that would snowball. Just a pitch, only those spells that dont require costly components can be so easily read by others? That gets rid of most of the abuseable ones I think.
I strongly disagree with any creature being able to read your works and use them. That means the Paladins horse can cast fireball. I'm reasonably sure that the Artillerists Turret can cast Teleport with this. I mean...pfft. No. Limit it to beings of a certain intelligence and ability to speak a proper language. Its what I'd do if I was DMing this class anyway.


I worry this is too far off theme. And I think fake plate mail with full dex and a finesse greatsword lasting for 6 hours is too strong. Make it Minutes, but lower the time it takes to use it. So its something that can be used to prep for a battle, not something you just have up all day.

I really like the flavour of this but I think the later abilities move further from the flavour. It goes from the Arrival-esque idea of 'languages can shape perception' to "You speak Mind Flayer so youre more abberant."
What if for the 10th level, they get to keep one spell slot they can cast open, and spontaneously cast something during the day, because when they will have prepared their spells tomorrow, they knew what they needed today? Just to stay on-brand. And having the highest level ability of a language based class remove the need to actually...speak seems off too. Maybe just the Telekinesis Somatic thing.


I love this one. Maybe the closest to the actual theme.
I think you've doubled down once too often on the Omomori abilities. Let them do something different for 11th level than just Have More. Maybe they can choose one Omomori to have the passive effect always on. Maybe let them spend some gold to have an even more powerful version of 1 Omomori that is their speciality. Then again I guess they already have their 11th level Spells. Still.
I personally dont like the idea of the Monk summoning something. More cleric than monk. Monks are all about improving the self. Give them something like a Paladins capstone, let them BECOME a Shrine Guardian. Also you don't say at what level you gain Shrine Guardian.
I worry that Winds passive ability is a bit weak. 5 ft means alot to most classes. Monk, not so much. Acrobatics bonus maybe? AC bonus vs Missile weapons?
And, I feel like a Plant Omomori and maybe an evil one? would round them out perfectly. Aku and Moku

Ever notice how spelling bureaucrat feels like engaging in bureaucracy?
Ok I know this is a joke but
Automatically costing a creature a round of actions is utterly huge. Potentially costing them every action based on Int is too much. You've just taken out the big brute of every fight.
So, I'd make it only work on creatures that understand your language, first of all. No you cant make a dire wolf or a black pudding sign a form. And I'd say that while it's filling out the form, you can't do anything either.
Cos then at 6th level your ability to force people to fill out forms is close to back to where it was. Now you can make the troll do it, but still not the black pudding.
And 2ndly Id either give them a save, or I'd make it only cos a move action.
10th level is hilarious, but Im not sure about how often it can be used. Maybe once a creature saves, they are immune.
Rejected is perfect.

Damon_Tor
2020-04-29, 11:46 AM
Lexicanum Universalis - Does this still require a check to cast a spell higher than half your level to cast? For example, can a 20th level artificer make a 9th level scroll and hand it to his lackey to cast? This does open up the ability for your entire party to have a familiar and be able to cast Summon (Greater) Steed. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just something to consider.

You might have a hard time finding Find Steed in written form. By the level you get the feature, I wouldn't be terribly concerned about multiple familiars.


The other thing I was really hoping to see in this subclass was the artificer who is focusing on scrolls being allowed to use their casting modifier in place of the standard scroll DC/attack. Once you get beyond the original level when casting, the DC is pretty low.

That's included, or at least it's supposed to be. I'll double check, it's possible it was removed by accident. EDIT: it's there, included in the "master scribe" ability: "Spells cast from scrolls you create use your spell attack modifier and spell save DC. Cantrips cast from scrolls you create are cast using your character level."

Damon_Tor
2020-04-29, 11:55 AM
I strongly disagree with any creature being able to read your works and use them. That means the Paladins horse can cast fireball. I'm reasonably sure that the Artillerists Turret can cast Teleport with this. I mean...pfft. No. Limit it to beings of a certain intelligence and ability to speak a proper language. Its what I'd do if I was DMing this class anyway.

The scrolls still require verbal and/or somatic components. A chain pact familiar would likely be able to use the scrolls, but creatures without hands or language would have a hard time getting any use from this feature.

I can see where I need to clarify that though.

EDIT: I've clarified that point.

In effect, this ability is two features:

1. You can communicate fairly universally, albiet in one direction; if you wanted to tell your horse something important you could write him a note, but the horse probably couldn't write back. This seems kind of ribbony, though it has some implications combined with the Arcane Stylus. Together they would allow you to use spells like "command" on virtually any creature regardless of any language barrier.
2. Other creatures (who are capable of speech and/or hand gestures) can use scrolls you create.

The creatures for whom you would most likely use ability #1 are different from the creatures for whom you would most likely use ability #2. The two are part of the same ability because they are part of the same thematic ability, that of universal legibility.

RickAsWritten
2020-04-29, 12:20 PM
Ever notice how spelling bureaucrat feels like engaging in bureaucracy?
Ok I know this is a joke but

After typing the word 37 million times while writing this, yes. In fact, it might be worse.


Automatically costing a creature a round of actions is utterly huge. Potentially costing them every action based on Int is too much. You've just taken out the big brute of every fight.
So, I'd make it only work on creatures that understand your language, first of all. No you cant make a dire wolf or a black pudding sign a form. And I'd say that while it's filling out the form, you can't do anything either.
Cos then at 6th level your ability to force people to fill out forms is close to back to where it was. Now you can make the troll do it, but still not the black pudding.
And 2ndly Id either give them a save, or I'd make it only cos a move action.

It's pretty strong, as most creatures have low Intelligence stats, but it's only to one creature per Rage. You're on to something for it needing a limiter though. I think that "you can't do anything either" is a bit too harsh. I think that maybe "you can't attack the creature that is filling out the form, but you can attack others" would be a good middle ground.

It is very much intended for a Bureaucrat to be able to make a dire wolf or a black pudding sign a form. Bureaucracy no know bounds and has no language. The procedure comes above all.


10th level is hilarious, but Im not sure about how often it can be used. Maybe once a creature saves, they are immune.

It can be used Strength modifier times per Long Rest, but yeah they should probably be immune on a success.



Rejected is perfect.

Thanks. And thanks for the feedback.

nickl_2000
2020-04-29, 01:25 PM
I love this one. Maybe the closest to the actual theme.
I think you've doubled down once too often on the Omomori abilities. Let them do something different for 11th level than just Have More. Maybe they can choose one Omomori to have the passive effect always on. Maybe let them spend some gold to have an even more powerful version of 1 Omomori that is their speciality. Then again I guess they already have their 11th level Spells. Still.
I personally dont like the idea of the Monk summoning something. More cleric than monk. Monks are all about improving the self. Give them something like a Paladins capstone, let them BECOME a Shrine Guardian. Also you don't say at what level you gain Shrine Guardian.
I worry that Winds passive ability is a bit weak. 5 ft means alot to most classes. Monk, not so much. Acrobatics bonus maybe? AC bonus vs Missile weapons?
And, I feel like a Plant Omomori and maybe an evil one? would round them out perfectly. Aku and Moku



Thanks, as I was brainstorming ideas for the contest this jumped out immediately and seemed like fun. I know that those are the ones of mine that I like the most.

I changed the wind passive ability to "You gain advantage on all acrobatics checks and all jumps you make are considered moving jumps even if you arenít moving."

I did this at 11, instead of having more charms. "At level 11, when you channel your ki to activate an Omamori you can activate two omamori charms at a single time and gain the abilities in both of them." You get more passive abilities and more options, but doesn't add a huge amount of power as much as flexibility. It does give you more danger of using up your charms though.


As for the Shrine Guardian, I really like that ability. It is so darn fitting for someone who's job was to guard a shrine. I will think about it though.

Phhase
2020-04-29, 06:24 PM
I've posted my entry, Otherworldly Patron: Forbidden Ones. PEACH!

Lvl45DM!
2020-04-30, 02:53 AM
The creatures for whom you would most likely use ability #1 are different from the creatures for whom you would most likely use ability #2. The two are part of the same ability because they are part of the same thematic ability, that of universal legibility.

Yes that is much clearer. I think it was the "any creature can use your scrolls" that threw me for such a loop.


Thanks, as I was brainstorming ideas for the contest this jumped out immediately and seemed like fun. I know that those are the ones of mine that I like the most.

I changed the wind passive ability to "You gain advantage on all acrobatics checks and all jumps you make are considered moving jumps even if you aren’t moving."

I did this at 11, instead of having more charms. "At level 11, when you channel your ki to activate an Omamori you can activate two omamori charms at a single time and gain the abilities in both of them." You get more passive abilities and more options, but doesn't add a huge amount of power as much as flexibility. It does give you more danger of using up your charms though.


As for the Shrine Guardian, I really like that ability. It is so darn fitting for someone who's job was to guard a shrine. I will think about it though.

I like your changes! Except it looks like your Wind Charm is the same :smallconfused:
I did think you had an attachment to the Shrine Guardian, I could just feel it. Thats why i prefaced that one again with "Personally". That feature would make me less likely to play it, but that is totally my thing. I've seen those Shrine Guardians in Japan they would be scary as F. Maybe you need to specify about the summoning though. Where does it appear? Does it take an action to arrive? That sort of thing.

OOOOOOOOOOO i LOVE Aku and Moku. Moku is pretty much exactly what I hoped for but giving Aku the ability to speak evil languages is so fun!



It's pretty strong, as most creatures have low Intelligence stats, but it's only to one creature per Rage. You're on to something for it needing a limiter though. I think that "you can't do anything either" is a bit too harsh. I think that maybe "you can't attack the creature that is filling out the form, but you can attack others" would be a good middle ground.

It is very much intended for a Bureaucrat to be able to make a dire wolf or a black pudding sign a form. Bureaucracy no know bounds and has no language. The procedure comes above all.

Yeah, look you do you, but if I was DMing it I for sure wouldn't let that fly. :smallbiggrin:

I suppose if you can't attack the creature filling out the form that sorta solves my issue. I still worry that a DM would throw one big monster at you like an Ankheg or Remoraz, and you hold it hostage while your party chops it up. Perhaps taking damage violates the terms of the contract? Ah well.

Few typos in the opening.
I dont think Frenzy is a good name for the mechanic. Its already a Berserker thing and what you're describing is more like a Breakdown, or Madness, or Revelation. I do like the mechanic. Mental exhaustion. Does it go down in the same way as exhaustion? And what exactly inflicts it? Just a few notes would be helpful there.

I dont think giving them a free +1 to Int at level one is very fair. Giving them the rest of the Keen Mind feat seems good though.

6th level seems interesting, DM dependent though. Dont abuse it.

10th level, ahh if only this gave Telepathy like GOOlocks.

14th. There we go. Explosive Runes and Beyond Ken together at last. I wonder if these need to be two separate abilities though? Maybe have writing be part of 10th and add some more options to the 14th.

The Pact Boon is...look its interesting. Very RP-heavy more than mechanics.
But the invocations add the mechanics i guess.

All in All very interesting and flavourful

nickl_2000
2020-04-30, 07:20 AM
I like your changes! Except it looks like your Wind Charm is the same :smallconfused:
I did think you had an attachment to the Shrine Guardian, I could just feel it. Thats why i prefaced that one again with "Personally". That feature would make me less likely to play it, but that is totally my thing. I've seen those Shrine Guardians in Japan they would be scary as F. Maybe you need to specify about the summoning though. Where does it appear? Does it take an action to arrive? That sort of thing.

OOOOOOOOOOO i LOVE Aku and Moku. Moku is pretty much exactly what I hoped for but giving Aku the ability to speak evil languages is so fun!


Woops, looks like I made the change in my google doc and never did in the post. It is the quote I put in the response though.

When it came to Moku, I had a glut of choices that would make sense and be very fitting. I debated having speak with plants as a passive ability, but making it Shillelagh gives a monk a lot of choices at level 3 and I really like choices :)

I added in a few things to make the Shrine Guardian more clear for when it acts. Honestly, I see the Shrine Guardian as more of a protective force rather than an offensive one. At level 17 the to hit and the damage is piddly. However, the immunities, resistances, and reaction are primarily what I'm going for. That reaction ability would be a dream for me to have available on my team.

Also, I am actually least worried about capstones that are in the level 17-20 range. There are so few games that get up there it really doesn't matter that that much.

Thanks for the help and thoughts.

nickl_2000
2020-04-30, 08:25 AM
New review



Pact Spells:
I'm not sure I like Hunter's Mark in here. It may be on for theme, but why in the world would a Warlock use Hunter's Mark (requiring a weapon attack) over Hex. This is just a personal opinion, but I feel like it's wasted.

The keen mind feat is fitting, but makes a dip interesting. It would certainly be new for a PC to be able to get +1 intelligence for dipping a single level into Warlock.

Thank you for removing spell book copying for Amanuensis, that was an immediate thought on that spell. The duration is odd though "Duration: 10 minutes/level." Is that supposed to mean that the spell last longer depending on the level tier of the PC (40 minutes max)?

I see that later you allow that though.

Beyond Ken - All creatures that can hear you. You can hear yourself, does it self-inflict?



There is a lot going on here and a lot I like. I'm trying to process it all and find ways to break things. So far I haven't found anything that looks broken, just a subclass that would create a Warlock the is frightening as hell.

Lvl45DM!
2020-04-30, 10:03 AM
Hey about Beyond Ken.

Niche case, but can I say it out loud AND use telepathy simultaneously?

Damon_Tor
2020-04-30, 03:06 PM
Divided the Master Scribe ability into bullet points so it can be read more easily.

I also added a prohibition against more than two infused scrolls of any one spell level; without it, the spells-per-level-per-day became funky, peaking at level 10 when the Volumancer would be able to make 4 5th level spell scrolls while a full caster would have just 2 5th level spell slots. This change keeps the volumancer a small step behind full casters, which is about where I want them, without having to present players with a table of what scrolls they can make and when.

Changed some wording here and there where I thought it felt sloppy.

BerzerkerUnit
2020-04-30, 05:35 PM
I really like the flavour of this but I think the later abilities move further from the flavour. It goes from the Arrival-esque idea of 'languages can shape perception' to "You speak Mind Flayer so youre more abberant."
What if for the 10th level, they get to keep one spell slot they can cast open, and spontaneously cast something during the day, because when they will have prepared their spells tomorrow, they knew what they needed today? Just to stay on-brand. And having the highest level ability of a language based class remove the need to actually...speak seems off too. Maybe just the Telekinesis Somatic thing.

[

Thanks so much for your feedback!

While ďThe ArrivalĒ is a favorite and partial inspiration for this subclass, I was actually looking at the films ďAltered StatesĒ and ďLife ForceĒ as well. The concept of learning something you arenít supposed to having a metamorphic effect goes back a long way, but you should also see all those abilities as an outgrowth of burgeoning psionic ability which culminates in the capstone.

The Thoughtcasting ability is counterintuitive if you arenít nerdishly familiar with the default lore for Illithids. In short, there is no spoken version of Qualith so eliminating the need to speak is a satisfactory outgrowth. Also, their psionics require no components, so modeling that (at a significant cost) seemed a fair way to bring the ability up to par.

BerzerkerUnit
2020-04-30, 05:44 PM
Special Spellbook - One possible issue here. A Wizard can scribe a prepared spell into their spellbook. So, the ability to prepare a spell that isn't in the spellbook then let's you scribe it into the spellbook. You may want to remove that as an option.

"Mind over body: you become immune to poison and disease. When you are hit with a critical attack you can use your reaction to turn a critical hit into a normal one." Immune to poison, disease, and removing criticals seems like to much. Pick one or the other please :)


Other than a few small issues here this seems like a cool class. I like it :)




[

Thanks so much for the feedback!

Can I get a page reference on Wizardís scribing prepared spells into their spell book? I read the spell preparation description in the PHB, maybe my eyes are just skipping it. How does a Wizard prepare a spell that isnít already in their spell book? It seems like the kind of niche thing that wouldnít be covered, but Iíve been wrong before.

Mind Overbody might seem great, and it is, about 1/3 adventuring days, and only if poison and disease are a hazard. If you invested this many levels in Wizard youíre probably not in melee most of the time and negating crits is great, but at the cost of possible counterspells or absorbing elements or shield? Maybe not that great. Basically all these little niche immunities are wonderful, but might be useless and are never guaranteed bc you roll for them. Iíll give it another look though.

Thanks again!

Phhase
2020-04-30, 07:30 PM
New review



Pact Spells:
I'm not sure I like Hunter's Mark in here. It may be on for theme, but why in the world would a Warlock use Hunter's Mark (requiring a weapon attack) over Hex. This is just a personal opinion, but I feel like it's wasted.

The keen mind feat is fitting, but makes a dip interesting. It would certainly be new for a PC to be able to get +1 intelligence for dipping a single level into Warlock.

Thank you for removing spell book copying for Amanuensis, that was an immediate thought on that spell. The duration is odd though "Duration: 10 minutes/level." Is that supposed to mean that the spell last longer depending on the level tier of the PC (40 minutes max)?

I see that later you allow that though.

Beyond Ken - All creatures that can hear you. You can hear yourself, does it self-inflict?



There is a lot going on here and a lot I like. I'm trying to process it all and find ways to break things. So far I haven't found anything that looks broken, just a subclass that would create a Warlock the is frightening as hell.



Please, by all means, find ways to break it, that's what it's here for! No, it doesn't self-inflict. You've already suffered the secret, you're just sharing. "Can hear you" is to exempt creatures that cannot hear you/are deaf. The duration is a thing because you can copy 250 words per minute. I should probably make in Concentration too, and require it to remain in range during copying.

Note that no matter how many spells you copy from scrolls and books and the like, you only have 1 flex slot per long rest, and only up to 5th level. Arcanum grenades don't count as slots in that respect. I wanted to capture the knowledge-sponge feel, but not step on Lore Bard too badly, so this is what I went with. There's arguably more value in bartering the spell to others for money, since you can reproduce them easily. Speaking of, should I add an ink component for Amanuensis?

I added Hunter's Mark because I thought it appropriate for the Warlock to have a tool to track down creatures that try to escape - nothing's gonna get out from under your gaze until you've gotten your answers. It's less for combat in that sense.

As for the dip, I think it's acceptable. Keen Mind is widely regarded as the worst feat ever (I'm pretty sure), and +1 Int is a relatively small boon compared to what other Warlock dips offer (*cough* Hexblade *cough*). If you're dipping Forbidden Ones, that's an implicit opt-out of dipping Hexblade, which, while kind of a bad way of judging balance, is nonetheless true.

Hey about Beyond Ken.

Niche case, but can I say it out loud AND use telepathy simultaneously?

Hmm. If you can say it telepathically, I don't know why you would also say it out loud. Anything without a mind you can speak to isn't going to be affected anyway. If you mean are creatures affected twice, then no. I guess I'll allow it.

Lvl45DM!
2020-04-30, 07:51 PM
Hmm. If you can say it telepathically, I don't know why you would also say it out loud. Anything without a mind you can speak to isn't going to be affected anyway. If you mean are creatures affected twice, then no. I guess I'll allow it.


1 deaf enemy. Enemies in silence. Getting the man behind the curtain. I dunno. Just had the idle thought.
Definitely not doubling the effect. Hearing it twice at once is just...the same as hearing it. Cos its knowledge, not thunder damage.

Phhase
2020-04-30, 08:26 PM
1 deaf enemy. Enemies in silence. Getting the man behind the curtain. I dunno. Just had the idle thought.
Definitely not doubling the effect. Hearing it twice at once is just...the same as hearing it. Cos its knowledge, not thunder damage.

Yeah, I getcha, I'll allow it.

Edit: Forgot to port over part of the Frenzy feature. Frenzy is now both more and less dangerous to caster and enemy alike. There is also a provisio for long-term madness when Frenzy is maxed, so that adding more levels of Frenzy is less of an option if you want to heal it.

nickl_2000
2020-05-01, 06:39 AM
Thanks so much for the feedback!

Can I get a page reference on Wizardís scribing prepared spells into their spell book? I read the spell preparation description in the PHB, maybe my eyes are just skipping it. How does a Wizard prepare a spell that isnít already in their spell book? It seems like the kind of niche thing that wouldnít be covered, but Iíve been wrong before.

Mind Overbody might seem great, and it is, about 1/3 adventuring days, and only if poison and disease are a hazard. If you invested this many levels in Wizard youíre probably not in melee most of the time and negating crits is great, but at the cost of possible counterspells or absorbing elements or shield? Maybe not that great. Basically all these little niche immunities are wonderful, but might be useless and are never guaranteed bc you roll for them. Iíll give it another look though.

Thanks again!

It's under the "Your Spellbook" sidebar on page 114, second paragraph under replacing your book.

"If you lose your spellbook, you can use the same procedure to transcribe the spells that you have prepared into a new spellbook. Filling out the remainder of your spellbook requires you to find new spells to do so, as normal. For this reason, many wizards keep backup spellbooks in a safe place."


The intent of it is that you prepare spells every day from your book. If your book is destroyed and you have to start fresh, you don't lose everything since you can transcribe those spells you prepared the last time. Your case is super niche, and it's a bit of a deep dive into the rules, but it's there and likely un-intended. It's easily solved with a "you cannot scribe a spell prepared this way into your spellbook or create scrolls with it."

sengmeng
2020-05-01, 11:47 AM
College of Arts (and Crafts) withdrawn, taken out back, shot, resurrected, renamed, and resubmitted.

College of Law is up!

Segev
2020-05-01, 12:34 PM
College of Arts (and Crafts) withdrawn, taken out back, shot, resurrected, renamed, and resubmitted.

College of Law is up!

Aw, too bad. I understand the desire to be more in line with the theme (and will give the college of law a look later), but I did think it was a neat idea. I hope you keep it for a later contest, or just as a thing to refine on your own. The concept was cool.

nickl_2000
2020-05-01, 12:38 PM
College of Arts (and Crafts) withdrawn, taken out back, shot, resurrected, renamed, and resubmitted.

College of Law is up!


Aw, too bad. I understand the desire to be more in line with the theme (and will give the college of law a look later), but I did think it was a neat idea. I hope you keep it for a later contest, or just as a thing to refine on your own. The concept was cool.

Agreed, I really loved the concept

sengmeng
2020-05-01, 12:44 PM
Aw, too bad. I understand the desire to be more in line with the theme (and will give the college of law a look later), but I did think it was a neat idea. I hope you keep it for a later contest, or just as a thing to refine on your own. The concept was cool.


Agreed, I really loved the concept

Wow thanks! I do want to find a balance point and appropriate place for it someday, but it didn't seem smart to keep going for now on something that needed a lot of work to still not fit the theme.

nickl_2000
2020-05-01, 01:11 PM
Wow thanks! I do want to find a balance point and appropriate place for it someday, but it didn't seem smart to keep going for now on something that needed a lot of work to still not fit the theme.

I totally get that. I'm have 3 or 4 different fey related subclasses that I have started and just can't work out or get comfortable with.

Phhase
2020-05-01, 06:30 PM
All cylinders: fire. Feedback is go.


Alternate name: Fighter: Monk. That's not necessarily a bad thing, though.

平衡: Wouldn't it be easier to say "You become proficient in Athletics and Acrobatics, or gain Expertise if you are already proficient." ? "When making a contested check" seems like an odd limiter.

韻律: Clarify wording. By "if unsuccessful" you mean "If they fail the save", right? Also clarify what counts an an attack for the purposes of this effect. Do spells count? Spells that don't do damage? Also, when you say "prevent them from gaining their relevant ability modifier to damage", do you mean ANY modifier to ANY damage (such as a Cleric's Wis mod to a cantrip) or just physical attacks? And for purposes of the Armor Class version, does this completely disable Unarmored Defense, or does it only remove one skill's bonus to AC? Don't misunderstand, I really do like this feature. I think it captures the "Disrupted Rhythm" thing quite well, and originally so, to boot. I just think it has a few rough edges.

知識: How long does it take to attune to a weapon, and does it consume an attunement slot? If you use this feature on a magical weapon, does this mean you have two attunement slots occupied, or just one? Clarify your use of the word "attunement" here, since that's an actual game mechanic. Also, at your discretion, add a provisio that you can only ignore a type of damage resistance that corresponds to one to the types the weapon would normally deal. It's a stupid edge case that doesn't really matter, but my knee-jerk inner idiot is trying to attune to create a +1 mace that ignore slashing resistance, so help me. Also, can you attune to a natural weapon? What about fists? What if you have Monk levels, would that make a difference?

Tl;dr: Second verse, same as the first. I like it, but phrasing.

崢: Add some more flavor! Do you write the character on your face? Armor? Weapon? Paper? Is it a training form you practice?
風: I really like this. The only question I have: Does this movement provoke attacks of opportunity? It would be better if it didn't.
火: Another attack, or attack action? Also, are there limits on how the attack is made? Could you use a different weapon? That could be interesting. I do think that it's a good thing that it doesn't consume your reaction, though. I like the idea of raining down deathblows on weak enemies. Especially if there's some kind of AOE collateral involved.
土: (Grammar Nazi warning) Add a comma after "bonus action". I like this, however, consider additionally giving the player some kind of resistance to being moved, stunned, or knocked prone. As it is, it feels like it's missing something.
劍: Consider calling this "Metal", just to help complete the "Eastern Elements" vibe. Other that that, my only question, is if immunity becomes resistance, does that mean that since the weapon already ignores resistance, that it effectively ignores immunity too? Or does its effect only apply once?

Also, in the vein of oriental elements (I think), consider adding:

木 (Mý) - Wood: You learn to bend and sway with the flow of battle, as the tree bends with the wind, always snapping back with twice the energy. When an enemy makes an attack roll or contested check against you, you can use your reaction to impose disadvantage on that enemy's attacks or checks against you until the beginning of your next turn (Including the triggering attack). On your next turn, you have advantage on a number of attacks or checks against it equal to the number that your enemy failed. If your enemy critically fails an attack or check, you gain a critical success instead. This ability can be used once per short rest.

Of course, that's just my interpretation. Use your own judgment.

All in all, I think you've done a good job making something interesting out of a fairly (imo) played-out theme, which is a mark of excellence.


Nemesis of the Clan -A free Legend Lore with every Rage? Iiiiinteresting. Would this work out of explicit combat situations? Against allies? And if you're targeting someone or something that isn't what it seems to be? Do you htink this ability ought to reveal the creature type as well? It might be interesting if you were fighting a human and got instead a strong Fiend
reading...also, can you burn another use of your rage to switch which creature is your Nemesis? What if the Nemesis dies before combat ends?

Lorekeeper -How do you see this entering into play? I get it's for flavor, and that totally fine, but still. Mayhaps throw in proficiency with tattooist's tools? Or maybe with an instrument, or even the Performance skill? It's not just Bards that know how to tell stories and sing, after all. After all, you're not gonna just make your allies read the tattoos right off of your body, right? Right...? Well. Maybe if you also have a level of "Bard"....eheh.

Descendant of Champions -Works for me. Just remember to add the level you gain this feature at.

Tales of Comradeship - "Each as"? Second verse, same as the first. Works for me, just remember to stipulate level.

Master of the Records - Looks good. If you kill an enemy with this feature, does a tattoo of your deed automatically appear on your body?


Ah yes, a complicated Artificer interpretation (This is a compliment - in case Machinist didn't tip you off, I love that stuff :smallwink:. Also, I'm highly caffeinated.). Frankly, this contest theme wouldn't be complete without a scroll-based subclass.

Master Scribe - So, you can you use your infusions to create scrolls. Exactly how does that work? Does this mean:
a) You can create spell scrolls using the method below, and each one occupies an infusion slot while it exists.
b) You can designate one of your infusions as one specific spell, spell level, or scroll type that can then be inscribed, once, or more than once.
Basically, I'm wondering what kinds of limits the infusion slot aspect introduces alongside the listed ones.

Are there limits on the types of spells you can add to the Master Scroll? Could you copy a divine spell from a scroll, onto your Master Scroll?

Rotullus Arcanum -I'm getting some Ryze from League of Legends vibes here, which is cool. Otherwise, it just seems like a Heward's Handy Haversack, but only for scrolls.

Lexicanum Universalis -Wow, this is actually really strong. It lets you offload Concentration onto, for example, the Fighter, who's probably not gonna lose it, nor will he likely need to Concentrate on anything else. I like it. One thing only, does the caster use your spellpower, or their (hypotheical) own? Oh, and can the caster apply their own spellcasting features like Metamagic onto it?

Geminae Occulatum - I'll have to meditate on the power this offers. It seems quite interesting. What order do the spell take effect in? Or are they simultaneous?

Arcane Stylus - aka. Silent-Spell-in-a-can. Could you make more than one? Seems quite powerful. Since you're using your hand to write the verbal component, does that mean the somatic component is also implicitly replaced? I swear, there's a Death Note joke in here somewhere.


Aww, I kinda liked Arts and Crafts. It was like the Illusion Wizard capstone and the Forge Cleric Channel Divinity as a subclass. Anyway, let's have a look.

Contract - "...You treat this creature as your - PFFFFFFFFFFFT" Off to a good start. That's hilarious. Does "Under mind control" count as "Willing"? I imagine not, but just checking. There are some interesting things here...what if you have Pact of the Chain? Does the other creature gain maximized healing From Gift of the Ever-Living Ones? Can you cast spells from it, or see through its eyes? Possibilities...

Legalese -Simple, yet elegant.

Restraining Order -This is quite interesting. One thing: is either party aware of the approximate location to the other to facilitate proper distancing in the case that line of sight is broken after the effect activates? Also, is the effect permanent until dispelled? That's quite something if so.

Injunction -Missed opportunity to call this "Objection". Though I admit it's low-hanging fruit. Otherwise, I like it. Is the spell slot they were casting with expended?

All in all, good flavor and good use of Inspiration dice. A worthy successor to Arts and Kraftwerk. Also, it's funny to imagine Phoenix Wright as a Bard. In a strange way, it quite fits.


Oooh, I like this. Good to see someone else going for the "Eldritch Knowledge" flavor.

Escherian Spellbook - It's beans in the grand scheme of things, but I'd add clause about the Spellbook's durability, storage methods, and replacement conditions. Otherwise, I like it. In fact, those effects see very powerful. I know it's mostly for flavor, but in a strange way, would future-casting a spell lock you into learning that spell in the future at some point? Food for thought.

Mindspeech - Telepathy is always useful.

Altered State - I like the ideas of these effects, but I'm slightly confused about the circumstances of their invocation. Does this mean that every morning, you roll the dice once for every spell you prepare? Do the effects stack? Do you choose one to keep? And how long do they last?

Thoughtcasting - (Grammar Nazi warning) Incorrect use of "effects", use "affects". Now this. This I like. The Telekinesis thing seems straightforward: if you're concentrating on Telekinesis, you effectively have the Still Spell feature. The only thing: Can you use Telekinesis to create Somatic components for a Concentration spell, allowing of course, for the fact that your Concentration on Telekinesis ends once the casting is complete?

However, I just have a few nits to pick about Mindspeech verbal components. When you use Mindspeech to use verbal components, does that mean that only you hear the incantation in your head, or does everyone in range of Mindspeech hear you casting - but only in their heads? And how does this interact with spells that require targets to hear the caster? Does the caster also to speak these components out loud, or can telepathy be used?

All in all, quite intriguing.


You know, I thought I'd have more to say about this, but here we are. Once I understand it, it's fairly straightforward (To me, anyway). It's similar to Way of the Four Elements in some respects, but less disappointing.

Just to be clear: The text of Empowered Omamori does NOT mean that while the charm itself lasts, it is Concentration on the spell for you, right? And Omamori Master DOES let you Concentrate on 2 things at once, right? Additionally, if you are using one active effect of a charm, can you use the other?

Personally, I'd have the Level 11 ability of Void be something like Invisibility or Greater Invisibility, but that's just me.

Also, use this (https://5e.tools/bestiary.html#stone%20defender_mtf)link for the statblock instead. Not everyone uses DND Beyond.

Otherwise solid.



" N O "
https://i.ppy.sh/c0ae0aca56aef7478174ee19d12ef22187ed1a64/687474703a2f2f696d67312e77696b69612e6e6f636f6f6b69 652e6e65742f5f5f636232303132303231313231313931332f 70737963686f6e617574732f696d616765732f662f66312fd0 a1d183d182d18bd189d0bad0bad0bad0bad0bad0bad0bad0ba d0bad18b2e706e67

Heh, sorry, that's just the first thing I thought of. Those are the Censors from the game Psychonauts. Interesting choice to make this a Barbarian subclass.

Skill: Bureaucracy - Honestly, should be a thing.

Formulated Rage -Wow that's pretty powerful. I assume your allies are free to whale on them while they desperately try to finish their taxes, yeah?

Contracts are Universal -Does a creature targeted by your Formulated Rage need to be able to understand a language you speak/read? That would make having Tongues more important.

Form an Orderly Queue, aka the Best Lightning Bolt Setup in the Game - Step right up. Get your ass 'whoopins here.

Rejected - Seems good, but it could stand to be a little more flavorful. To be clear, they take extra damage from every weapon attack from any source, right?


This cycle is complete. I await the next with energized adjectives.

sengmeng
2020-05-01, 07:09 PM
Aww, I kinda liked Arts and Crafts. It was like the Illusion Wizard capstone and the Forge Cleric Channel Divinity as a subclass. Anyway, let's have a look.

Contract - "...You treat this creature as your - PFFFFFFFFFFFT" Off to a good start. That's hilarious. Does "Under mind control" count as "Willing"? I imagine not, but just checking. There are some interesting things here...what if you have Pact of the Chain? Does the other creature gain maximized healing From Gift of the Ever-Living Ones? Can you cast spells from it, or see through its eyes? Possibilities... I hadn't considered mind control; I think few DMs would allow that, but I leave it up to them if someone does want to use this subclass. You do have the normal benefits of being bonded to a familiar, including having your contracted creature deliver touch spells, sharing their senses, and even dismissing and summoning them, but I worded it that they are not actually your familiar, so invocations that interact with a familiar should not apply.

Legalese -Simple, yet elegant.

Restraining Order -This is quite interesting. One thing: is either party aware of the approximate location to the other to facilitate proper distancing in the case that line of sight is broken after the effect activates? Also, is the effect permanent until dispelled? That's quite something if so. I was envisioning it as permanent until dispelled, yes. I will add wording that they know when they are about to cross that threshold.

Injunction -Missed opportunity to call this "Objection". Though I admit it's low-hanging fruit. Otherwise, I like it. Is the spell slot they were casting with expended? Yes they do lose the spell slot; will clarify. And haha, yes, I was writing it under the name objection until I remembered that injunction was basically a document doing the same thing, and I thought I'd keep on the paperwork theme.

All in all, good flavor and good use of Inspiration dice. A worthy successor to Arts and Kraftwerk. Also, it's funny to imagine Phoenix Wright as a Bard. In a strange way, it quite fits. Phoenix Wright was definitely on my mind as I wrote it :)

Must add ten characters outside of the quote

Damon_Tor
2020-05-01, 11:05 PM
Master Scribe - So, you can you use your infusions to create scrolls. Exactly how does that work? Does this mean:
a) You can create spell scrolls using the method below, and each one occupies an infusion slot while it exists.
b) You can designate one of your infusions as one specific spell, spell level, or scroll type that can then be inscribed, once, or more than once.
Basically, I'm wondering what kinds of limits the infusion slot aspect introduces alongside the listed ones.

An infused scroll functions like any infused item: at the start of your day you decide how to craft your infusions for that day, and in this case the volumancer might decide he wants a scroll of haste, a scroll of fireball, a scroll of invisibility and a scroll of shadow blade. He then has those specific scrolls for his adventuring day. Like any other scroll, he can use one of these infused scrolls once and it destroys itself. Of course at the start of the next day he can recreate those scrolls.

The major limitation here is that it locks in what spell you'll be using the scroll for when you start your adventuring day. So it would behoove you to pick something you're always likely to use

Also relevant: needing the scroll in hand limits the value of spells that need to be cast as a reaction. You can use a scroll of counterspell if you happen to already be holding one, or if you have some other ability that lets you quickdraw things.


Are there limits on the types of spells you can add to the Master Scroll? Could you copy a divine spell from a scroll, onto your Master Scroll?

Yes, you can.


Rotullus Arcanum -I'm getting some Ryze from League of Legends vibes here, which is cool. Otherwise, it just seems like a Heward's Handy Haversack, but only for scrolls.

It has the added benefit of being extremely durable, and its contents remaining safe if it does manage to get destroyed. And while it's primary purpose is to protect your scrolls and make them more accessable, you can also use it to secret away an unlimited quantity of paper of any form. Found an ancient library deep in an ancient stronghold and no way to carry out all the books you want? Tear out the pages and put them in your rotullum, sort them out later.

The power advancement here is the ability to cast spell scrolls using a bonus action. This is the same level other artificers either get extra attack, int mod to damage on certain spells, or 1d8 damage to certain spells. Here, the volumancer gains the ability to cast a leveled spell and a cantrip on the same turn. That seems like it's more powerful than the alchemist or artillarist abilities on its face, but keep in mind that the volumancer is limited to using this with his scrolls, and he only had 2-6 of those per day.


Lexicanum Universalis -Wow, this is actually really strong. It lets you offload Concentration onto, for example, the Fighter, who's probably not gonna lose it, nor will he likely need to Concentrate on anything else. I like it. One thing only, does the caster use your spellpower, or their (hypotheical) own? Oh, and can the caster apply their own spellcasting features like Metamagic onto it?

It's just like using a regular spell scroll, so yes, metamagic is valid. It is a strong ability, and not only for the reasons you mention: it lets you pass off "self" spells to other PCs. So that fighter can cast Tenser's Transformation on himself.

The baseline Artificer can do this already of course, to a more limited degree, via Spell Storing Item, the volumancer just takes that ability and dials it all the way up. And it may or may not be worth noting the new Chronurgy wizard can also hand off concentration, so the precedent is there.

In general, I tend to give abilities which are "selfless" much more leeway for balance. This ability is only notable from a teamwork perspective, so from my perspective it's alright if it bends the power curve a tad.

Also relevant: any scroll you hand off to someone else is a scroll you don't get to use as a bonus action via your Rotullum.

Geminae Occulatum - I'll have to meditate on the power this offers. It seems quite interesting. What order do the spell take effect in? Or are they simultaneous?

If relevant I expect the player would decide which order they resolve in. I could add a note to that effect to make it explicit. EDIT: I added that text.

The most obvious use is in blasting: you've got a turn where you cast two cantrips and a big leveled spell, that's a pretty nice nova. Other times you might want to mix a concentration spell with blade ward so you (or whoever is using the scroll) have a better shot at maintaining concentration via reducing incoming damage. There are other combos possible: a spell that can light things on fire combined with control flames for example. Or dig a pit with move earth then use a forced movement spell to shove someone into it (as a bonus action due to Rotullum) then use move earth again to push the dirt back on top of them.


Arcane Stylus - aka. Silent-Spell-in-a-can. Could you make more than one? Seems quite powerful. Since you're using your hand to write the verbal component, does that mean the somatic component is also implicitly replaced? I swear, there's a Death Note joke in here somewhere.

Silent, but not subtle: you're writing in glowing letters in the air, few people would be fooled into thinking nothing magical was happening. And of course it would take up one of your infusions for the day, which for a volumancer means not preparing one of your scrolls. That's quite an opportunity cost.

There's a bit of debate over whether you can use the same infusion twice in one day, but personally I think it's pretty clear you can't, so no.

As to replacing the somatic component, I'm not sure why it would matter. As your spell focus you would be using the pen to perform the somatic components regardless (remember that all Artificer spellcasting has a defacto material component due to the quirks of their spellcasting requiring either a tool or an infused item).

Phhase
2020-05-02, 05:13 PM
An infused scroll functions like any infused item: at the start of your day you decide how to craft your infusions for that day, and in this case the volumancer might decide he wants a scroll of haste, a scroll of fireball, a scroll of invisibility and a scroll of shadow blade. He then has those specific scrolls for his adventuring day. Like any other scroll, he can use one of these infused scrolls once and it destroys itself. Of course at the start of the next day he can recreate those scrolls.

The major limitation here is that it locks in what spell you'll be using the scroll for when you start your adventuring day. So it would behoove you to pick something you're always likely to use

Also relevant: needing the scroll in hand limits the value of spells that need to be cast as a reaction. You can use a scroll of counterspell if you happen to already be holding one, or if you have some other ability that lets you quickdraw things.



Ok, good, so this only interacts with # of infused items, NOT number of infusions learned. Good. New questions, though: if you have features like Metamagic, can you write those into a spell scroll?


The power advancement here is the ability to cast spell scrolls using a bonus action. This is the same level other artificers either get extra attack, int mod to damage on certain spells, or 1d8 damage to certain spells. Here, the volumancer gains the ability to cast a leveled spell and a cantrip on the same turn. That seems like it's more powerful than the alchemist or artillarist abilities on its face, but keep in mind that the volumancer is limited to using this with his scrolls, and he only had 2-6 of those per day.

Which brings to mind a further question: The Volumancer can use these feature with infused scrolls, but can he use them with "Normal" scrolls? That he potentially bought, or made himself, though the usual method? Speaking of the usual method, it might be nice if you added that ribbon where since you're the "(Insert magic item here) subclass", then you gain the ability to craft "(Insert magic item here)s" more cheaply and quickly.


It's just like using a regular spell scroll, so yes, metamagic is valid. It is a strong ability, and not only for the reasons you mention: it lets you pass off "self" spells to other PCs. So that fighter can cast Tenser's Transformation on himself.

...good point. Clever, quite clever. I'll have to ruminate further.


Also relevant: any scroll you hand off to someone else is a scroll you don't get to use as a bonus action via your Rotullum.

True. But I contest that, as long as your team is working well together, handing it off means you can cast it with no action...from a certain point of view.


If relevant I expect the player would decide which order they resolve in. I could add a note to that effect to make it explicit. EDIT: I added that text.

The first thing that occurs to me is Firebolt + Pyrotechnics. Instant Smoke/Flashbang. Which does sound cool.


Or dig a pit with move earth then use a forced movement spell to shove someone into it (as a bonus action due to Rotullum) then use move earth again to push the dirt back on top of them.

Can you do that in one turn? I recall Move Earth being a very slow spell.


Silent, but not subtle: you're writing in glowing letters in the air, few people would be fooled into thinking nothing magical was happening. And of course it would take up one of your infusions for the day, which for a volumancer means not preparing one of your scrolls. That's quite an opportunity cost.

Ah yes, but! It's much easier to conceal glowing scribbles, as opposed to arcane chants. For a verbal component, it's not kosher to just say "I whisper it as quiet as I can." That's a Metamagic thing, you can't just do that. However! Consider exhibit A, the Sneak-Caster's friend: Steel Mirror. There's a great many spells with the initial casting limitation "creature you can see". A mirror allows you to circumvent that, and with this item providing the verbal components while safely out of sight, it makes, I think, for a potent combo.

Lvl45DM!
2020-05-02, 08:52 PM
All cylinders: fire. Feedback is go.



Alternate name: Fighter: Monk. That's not necessarily a bad thing, though.

NO SHAME. I like the fluff of the classic monk. Or rather, i love the representation of that character in fiction. The ascetic warrior, removing himself from the pleasures of the world to better preserve it for others. But the mysticism of the 5e monk doesn't interest me in the same way. I play 5e monk more like I would play as a Psychic Warrior. Which is fine, but it lacks that angle of pure perfection of mind and body, rather its tapping into a mystic energy source.

平衡: Wouldn't it be easier to say "You become proficient in Athletics and Acrobatics, or gain Expertise if you are already proficient." ? "When making a contested check" seems like an odd limiter.

*shrugs* You're not stronger or more athletic. You have greater focus than other beings. That helps against others, but not against rocks or trees or against gravity.


韻律: Clarify wording. By "if unsuccessful" you mean "If they fail the save", right? Also clarify what counts an an attack for the purposes of this effect. Do spells count? Spells that don't do damage? Also, when you say "prevent them from gaining their relevant ability modifier to damage", do you mean ANY modifier to ANY damage (such as a Cleric's Wis mod to a cantrip) or just physical attacks? And for purposes of the Armor Class version, does this completely disable Unarmored Defense, or does it only remove one skill's bonus to AC? Don't misunderstand, I really do like this feature. I think it captures the "Disrupted Rhythm" thing quite well, and originally so, to boot. I just think it has a few rough edges.

Ah yes. Fine points. It does seem like its a melee only effect in my head.


知識: How long does it take to attune to a weapon, and does it consume an attunement slot? If you use this feature on a magical weapon, does this mean you have two attunement slots occupied, or just one? Clarify your use of the word "attunement" here, since that's an actual game mechanic. Also, at your discretion, add a provisio that you can only ignore a type of damage resistance that corresponds to one to the types the weapon would normally deal. It's a stupid edge case that doesn't really matter, but my knee-jerk inner idiot is trying to attune to create a +1 mace that ignore slashing resistance, so help me. Also, can you attune to a natural weapon? What about fists? What if you have Monk levels, would that make a difference? Tl;dr: Second verse, same as the first. I like it, but phrasing.

You can make a mace that ignores slashing resistance. I see no reason why not. I just...dont know how that helps you. Do fists count as melee weapons? Im going to leave that vague. Personally, nah, this is a weapon-master class. But I don't want to limit it. Sometimes leaving a little ambiguity is fine, especially in 5e.




崢: Add some more flavor! Do you write the character on your face? Armor? Weapon? Paper? Is it a training form you practice?
風: I really like this. The only question I have: Does this movement provoke attacks of opportunity? It would be better if it didn't.
火: Another attack, or attack action? Also, are there limits on how the attack is made? Could you use a different weapon? That could be interesting. I do think that it's a good thing that it doesn't consume your reaction, though. I like the idea of raining down deathblows on weak enemies. Especially if there's some kind of AOE collateral involved.
土: (Grammar Nazi warning) Add a comma after "bonus action". I like this, however, consider additionally giving the player some kind of resistance to being moved, stunned, or knocked prone. As it is, it feels like it's missing something.
劍: Consider calling this "Metal", just to help complete the "Eastern Elements" vibe. Other that that, my only question, is if immunity becomes resistance, does that mean that since the weapon already ignores resistance, that it effectively ignores immunity too? Or does its effect only apply once?

Also, in the vein of oriental elements (I think), consider adding:

Flavoured to taste!
No AoOs!
Another single attack. I worry about the spiralling impact of giving a hasted 18th level dual wielding fighting another attack action cos they killed the wizards familiar, yknow? But yes in theory you can kill every creature in your reach with this ability. And if you want to fling a javelin at another opponent, go nuts. Interpreting rules creatively is a players prerogative!
I based it off the Champion ability. I made it stronger, more HP, but limited use. The tradeoff is the variety of the other characters. Hmm. Maybe ill grant a 'cant move or be moved ability" though.
Nah, its sword. Its evocative of metal, sure, but again, Im referencing Hero. And no, obviously not. Added a line to clarify



木 (M√Ļ) - Wood: You learn to bend and sway with the flow of battle, as the tree bends with the wind, always snapping back with twice the energy. When an enemy makes an attack roll or contested check against you, you can use your reaction to impose disadvantage on that enemy's attacks or checks against you until the beginning of your next turn (Including the triggering attack). On your next turn, you have advantage on a number of attacks or checks against it equal to the number that your enemy failed. If your enemy critically fails an attack or check, you gain a critical success instead. This ability can be used once per short rest.

Of course, that's just my interpretation. Use your own judgement.

All in all, I think you've done a good job making something interesting out of a fairly (imo) played-out theme, which is a mark of excellence.

Great idea! I really like it and kind of wish I had thought of it for water at least. I will think about it.

BerzerkerUnit
2020-05-02, 09:39 PM
All

Oooh, I like this. Good to see someone else going for the "Eldritch Knowledge" flavor.

Escherian Spellbook - It's beans in the grand scheme of things, but I'd add clause about the Spellbook's durability, storage methods, and replacement conditions. Otherwise, I like it. In fact, those effects see very powerful. I know it's mostly for flavor, but in a strange way, would future-casting a spell lock you into learning that spell in the future at some point? Food for thought.

Mindspeech - Telepathy is always useful.

Altered State - I like the ideas of these effects, but I'm slightly confused about the circumstances of their invocation. Does this mean that every morning, you roll the dice once for every spell you prepare? Do the effects stack? Do you choose one to keep? And how long do they last?

Thoughtcasting - (Grammar Nazi warning) Incorrect use of "effects", use "affects". Now this. This I like. The Telekinesis thing seems straightforward: if you're concentrating on Telekinesis, you effectively have the Still Spell feature. The only thing: Can you use Telekinesis to create Somatic components for a Concentration spell, allowing of course, for the fact that your Concentration on Telekinesis ends once the casting is complete?

However, I just have a few nits to pick about Mindspeech verbal components. When you use Mindspeech to use verbal components, does that mean that only you hear the incantation in your head, or does everyone in range of Mindspeech hear you casting - but only in their heads? And how does this interact with spells that require targets to hear the caster? Does the caster also to speak these components out loud, or can telepathy be used?

All in all, quite intriguing.

[

Thanks so much for your feedback!

Iím working on the exact altered states mechanics I want. The idea of having your crazy 4d spellbook and a mundane one might allow you to ďkeepĒ an altered state around longer (by using the mundane one to prep spells preventing you from rolling for a new one at the cost of prepping your future spell) but it shouldnít be more than once a day. When I can late down the word count for all that Iíll give it a rewrite.

As a former teacher, I respect an adherence to rules for grammar too! In this case ďeffectĒ is what was intended. But thanks!

Damon_Tor
2020-05-02, 10:55 PM
Ok, good, so this only interacts with # of infused items, NOT number of infusions learned. Good. New questions, though: if you have features like Metamagic, can you write those into a spell scroll?

Metamagic is used when you cast a spell. Nothing about creating a scroll actually has you cast the spell to do so, the only one casting the spell is the end user.


Which brings to mind a further question: The Volumancer can use these feature with infused scrolls, but can he use them with "Normal" scrolls? That he potentially bought, or made himself, though the usual method?

Yes, most of the subclass's special features should work just fine with scrolls they craft traditionally. Scrolls you find or buy will benefit from any benefits you get for using spell scrolls, like rotullum's bonus action casting, but not effects specific to scrolls you make. So yes, in general you'll want to craft your own, the only reason to buy a scroll would be so you can copy the spell to your master scroll for later use.


Speaking of the usual method, it might be nice if you added that ribbon where since you're the "(Insert magic item here) subclass", then you gain the ability to craft "(Insert magic item here)s" more cheaply and quickly.

All artificers craft all magic items faster and cheaper, albiet at a later level than the UA version.


True. But I contest that, as long as your team is working well together, handing it off means you can cast it with no action...from a certain point of view.

Your teammate presumably has his own things he can be using his actions for. There are some great uses for handing off a scroll you made, but I don't think action economy is one of them.


Can you do that in one turn? I recall Move Earth being a very slow spell.

I meant Mold Earth, the cantrip version.


Ah yes, but! It's much easier to conceal glowing scribbles, as opposed to arcane chants. For a verbal component, it's not kosher to just say "I whisper it as quiet as I can." That's a Metamagic thing, you can't just do that. However! Consider exhibit A, the Sneak-Caster's friend: Steel Mirror. There's a great many spells with the initial casting limitation "creature you can see". A mirror allows you to circumvent that, and with this item providing the verbal components while safely out of sight, it makes, I think, for a potent combo.

I agree with most of that, though I think the glow gives the DM enough wiggle room to spot something he wants spotted. Ironically, it means that your tactics work better in broad daylight, when the glow is drowned out by the sun, than in the dark where it would stand out.

thisdude9001
2020-05-03, 11:23 PM
Is making living art to far off theme?
filler text filler text

Segev
2020-05-04, 12:13 AM
Is making living art to far off theme?
filler text filler text

It'll be a matter of subjective judgment, I fear. Personally, as long as it's inked, so you're putting pen to paper, it's probably "close enough," but I am not the ultimate judge (merely one person who might vote, if I actually come up with something of my own to submit).

Phhase
2020-05-04, 02:01 AM
Is making living art to far off theme?
filler text filler text

If you're thinking something along the rough lines of Nolzur's Marvelous Pigments, sounds good to me.

nickl_2000
2020-05-04, 06:37 AM
Is making living art to far off theme?
filler text filler text

If that is what interests you and captures you imagination for this contest, I say yes. It's closer than some of the other entries I seen in past contests.




Wow thanks! I do want to find a balance point and appropriate place for it someday, but it didn't seem smart to keep going for now on something that needed a lot of work to still not fit the theme.



College of Law review
Contract - I feel like this needs a CR restriction. As it is right now, if you could convince a dragon to be your familiar at level 1, then you have one. Sure, that is up to the DM, but I feel like it would avoid issue if you had a restriction of some sort spelled out

Legalese a legal document as a focus is pretty funny. I do have some concerns about the DC increase on a spell. What happens with a longer lasting spells with multiple saves (Tasha's). Also, does this break bounded accuracy? Dropping an upcast hold X and then adding a d10 to the DC can make it just about impossible to save against (and this is even worse if the DC remains high).

Restraining Order -A few worries here
1) The restraining order doesn't expire automatically, although this is minor
2) A lost save requires the creature to spend it's entire turn moving away from you. Considering this is based on a short rest resource at this point. That's 5 creature per short rest that can't attack you while your friends with ranged weapons pick it off from a distance. Maybe you could allow the creature to attack still and it must use it's movement to move away from you to down the power of this a little bit?

nickl_2000
2020-05-04, 09:15 AM
You know, I thought I'd have more to say about this, but here we are. Once I understand it, it's fairly straightforward (To me, anyway). It's similar to Way of the Four Elements in some respects, but less disappointing.


I will take that as a compliment :smallbiggrin: As the idea went through my mine, I really was working on something inspired by 4 elements with the intent that it didn't suck.



Just to be clear: The text of Empowered Omamori does NOT mean that while the charm itself lasts, it is Concentration on the spell for you, right? And Omamori Master DOES let you Concentrate on 2 things at once, right? Additionally, if you are using one active effect of a charm, can you use the other?


The intent is that the charm runs out and you lose the passive ability. However, if you are concentrating on a spell that you burned Ki to cast I didn't want you to lose this. I tried to make it more clear in the text.

"If you are concentrating on a spell when the Omamori charm burns up, the spell remains active as long as you retain concentration on it. However, the passive ability is gone and you are unable to cast new spells through it. All spells cast through this ability use wisdom as your spell casting modifier."



Tossed out the 2 charms at once to do something different. I was between two different options and it sounds like this one is more complicated than I intended.

"At level 11, when you channel your ki to activate an Omamori you can push extra power into it to make it last longer. If you spend an additional 3 ki (5 total), you may make the duration of the Omamori charm 10 minutes."

I think this provides similar power overall, but is a much less confusion ability.




Personally, I'd have the Level 11 ability of Void be something like Invisibility or Greater Invisibility, but that's just me.


Good call. Greater invisibility on a monk is terrifying, but there is a cost to it.



Also, use this (https://5e.tools/bestiary.html#stone%20defender_mtf)link for the statblock instead. Not everyone uses DND Beyond.


Done



Otherwise solid.


Thanks for the thoughts and the review.

RickAsWritten
2020-05-04, 09:31 AM
Yeah, look you do you, but if I was DMing it I for sure wouldn't let that fly. :smallbiggrin:

I suppose if you can't attack the creature filling out the form that sorta solves my issue. I still worry that a DM would throw one big monster at you like an Ankheg or Remoraz, and you hold it hostage while your party chops it up. Perhaps taking damage violates the terms of the contract? Ah well.




Formulated Rage -Wow that's pretty powerful. I assume your allies are free to whale on them while they desperately try to finish their taxes, yeah?

So there seems to be some consensus that this ability is pretty strong. In light of that I modified the language requirements a bit. A creature now must be able to understand a language before it can fill out a form. This prevents the ability from working on the dumbest, languageless monsters. It also makes Tongues at 6th level more useful. Tongues is now an offensive spell that allows you to give a creature the ability to understand a language and thus you can make them fill out the form.

Thanks for the feedback and the suggestions.

Also I'm considering moving Contracts are Universal to 10th and Form an Orderly Queue to 6th. That would delay the improvement to Formulated Rage, to keep it from being over-powered. Input would be appreciated.

Barbarian: Path of the Bureaucrat (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24477594&postcount=8)

RickAsWritten
2020-05-04, 01:01 PM
So there seems to be some consensus that this ability is pretty strong. In light of that I modified the language requirements a bit. A creature now must be able to understand a language before it can fill out a form. This prevents the ability from working on the dumbest, languageless monsters. It also makes Tongues at 6th level more useful. Tongues is now an offensive spell that allows you to give a creature the ability to understand a language and thus you can make them fill out the form.

Thanks for the feedback and the suggestions.

Also I'm considering moving Contracts are Universal to 10th and Form an Orderly Queue to 6th. That would delay the improvement to Formulated Rage, to keep it from being over-powered. Input would be appreciated.

Barbarian: Path of the Bureaucrat (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24477594&postcount=8)

Quoting myself here, but after I swapped the abilities and re-read through the whole subclass, I made the change. The whole thing flows and progresses much better now.

Feedback:

I love the flavor text, it's well written and thematic. As others have stated, you get too much at several of the levels; stuffing all of the Monk class into a Fighter-shaped subclass. What is the incentive to be unarmored? Besides for the aesthetic. All of the abilities work while armored. If I were to play this, I'd be heavy-armored-up and then would artfully cut down my foes with Wisdom. Rhythm is clunky. Knowledge is cool, but is very similar to Kensei. Overall, there is some nice stuff here, but it needs revisions.

Tattoo witch was my first thought for this, so I like the direction. Nemesis of the Clan is cool, but I feel like it should be extra crits or extra damage, but not both. Same with Tales of Comradeship, temp HP or resistance, not both. Master of the Records is a cool ability, but I fail to see how the title fits with the ability. Overall, pretty good and I like the flavor.

Good addition to the item-creation focused Artificer. Look pretty good, and you put a lot of thought/research behind the casting potential.

Hah! We've got a fellow bureaucrat. If a fellow PC signs up, can you make them disappear into a pocket dimension? Also, if a human or PC signed up do they become celestial, fey or fiend? That could have some weird impacts with a few spells and abilities. I'm not sure I understand Legalese. Restraining Order is cool, but 300ft is too far and they need to have a save before it starts. Injunction is awesome. I really like Counterspell-like abilities. Overall, it needs some clarification and tweaking, but it has a cool theme and some fun abilities.

Overall pretty good. Focused and interesting. The ability to prepare any spell would allow this wizard to eventually get every single wizard spell. That needs revised.

Other than having to look up what an Omamori actually is, I don't have much to add. It's really good; flavorful and interesting.

Frenzy needs to be renamed. The effects are super cool though. I'm not crazy about giving a feat outright, even if it isn't the strongest feat. Reading further, the new cantrip makes the feat completely redundant. I'd suggest removing Keen Mind. Some trippy stuff here. All of your subclasses have super cool themes and flavor, but they always have mechanics that are so far outside-the-box that they can't even see it anymore. It's interesting. Some of the stuff borders on genius, and some of it doesn't seem like it was written for the game of D&D. Anyway, the pact boon is neat, like that memory bowl thing from Harry Potter. Need-to-Know, and Beyond Ken are good. All of the reading-triggered abilities are cool, but I feel like they are going to be pretty difficult to set up in a regular bog-standard fantasy campaign. It would have to be a very spy-heavy, social campaign to see regular use.

Pretty cool theme. It gives me an absurd mental image. A bard that can't draw telling his Picasso-face looking monstrosity to go punch the bad guy. It groans, painfully and with existential dread, and trods over to complete its violent work. Protection of Expression is good. My only question is whether I can have more than one Living Art at a time, and whether there is a limit to how many Artistic Details can be applied at once? Some of the wording could be cleaned up and clarified, but all in all I like it.

nickl_2000
2020-05-04, 01:37 PM
Other than having to look up what an Omamori actually is, I don't have much to add. It's really good; flavorful and interesting.


Cool :)




Bardic College, you need to mention that for the sake of clarity.

Living Art: How does the bard command them? What do they do if there is no command? How long does it take to make them? Can you have more than one at a time?

I can't believe I am saying this, but level 3 seems weak you need more. May I suggest an extra use for bardic inspiration? That is standard for a bard from official sources.


Protection of Expression: So, it lasts half your level in rounds. And it gets HP = bard level + charisma. Does each person get that much damage reduction, or is it overall? If it's each person, then it seem cool. If it's overall it's underpowered.


Artistic Details:
Reach: Can this be applied more than once?
There is nothing to increase the to hit chance that I see. a +2 is not going to cut it for long.

Lvl45DM!
2020-05-04, 07:49 PM
Quoting myself here, but after I swapped the abilities and re-read through the whole subclass, I made the change. The whole thing flows and progresses much better now.

Feedback:

I love the flavor text, it's well written and thematic. As others have stated, you get too much at several of the levels; stuffing all of the Monk class into a Fighter-shaped subclass. What is the incentive to be unarmored? Besides for the aesthetic. All of the abilities work while armored. If I were to play this, I'd be heavy-armored-up and then would artfully cut down my foes with Wisdom. Rhythm is clunky. Knowledge is cool, but is very similar to Kensei. Overall, there is some nice stuff here, but it needs revisions.


Ok I've added incentives to be unarmoured. The only ability that is usable unarmoured is Knowledge. That said...is the aesthetic not enough? Wouldn't you feel just...weird playing a character that's about precision of mind and body while wearing plate armour? Whatever.
I know Knowledge is similar to kensei :smalltongue: the basic idea of this class is building a monk that doesn't rely on a mystic energy source, and referencing a Jet Li movie, which also hearkens to an old samurai superstition. But mostly the non-mystic monk. I even toyed with the idea of making the Knowledge ability not overcome resistance to non-magic weapons, but that gimps the class too much.

I've rehauled Rhythm. Again. Stupid awesome idea for an ability that is hard to get done in the rules.
Now its Ray of Enfeeblement but for any ability, but only at melee range. It also relies on you guessing the right ability. Sure 90% of the time you're right, but then one day you fight a Hexblade or another Calligrapher. I think thats fun.

At 10th level your mastery of rhythm allows you to alter the flow of the fight. The characters must flow smoothly from brush to page. You cannot rush this process, nor can you take too long. If a creature makes an melee attack, whether armed, unarmed or spell, against you, as a reaction you may attempt to alter their rhythm. They make a Con save at 8+your Wisdom mod+your proficiency mod. If they fail the save you may choose one of their ability scores. They deal half damage with melee attacks that use that ability modifier. At the end of each of the targetís turns, it can make a another save against the effect. On a success, the effect ends. Once a creature saves against this effect, they cannot be affected by it for 24 hours. You may use this ability 1+Wis mod times per short rest. You may only use this ability while you are wearing no armour and not wielding a shield.

BerzerkerUnit
2020-05-05, 12:38 AM
Overall pretty good. Focused and interesting. The ability to prepare any spell would allow this wizard to eventually get every single wizard spell. That needs revised.


Of course, this rule is under "replacing a lost spellbook," and not "transcribing spells."

I'll take another look at it, but could someone explain why this matters? I've played a handful of wizards, 2 into T4, 1 into T3 and some 4 or 5 trapped in T2, they always have more spells known than they need, except when they don't have enough preparation space to have all the ones they want for a given day, and there's never enough time to stop, long rest, and prep new spells. Keep in mind, RAW, changing your prepared spells is a nightmare at higher levels (1 minute per level of spell slot).

RAW, this might even eat into your workday meaning it would take 3 days for your level 7 and 8 transcriptions too.

Meh, I interested in hearing the rationale for it needing more than social contract.

Phhase
2020-05-05, 04:02 PM
Frenzy needs to be renamed. The effects are super cool though.

Frenzy is a direct reference to Bloodborne, where it does pretty much does the same thing: Looking at the horror too long makes your head go boom. Glad you like it! I was a little worried about adding ANOTHER entire new game mechanic, but it fit so well I couldn't resist. If you've got a suggestion for a better name, I'll consider it though.



I'm not crazy about giving a feat outright, even if it isn't the strongest feat. Reading further, the new cantrip makes the feat completely redundant. I'd suggest removing Keen Mind.

Keen Mind is (at least, from what I've heard) regarded as the worst feat in all of 5e. All said, it is mostly in there for flavor. The INT bonus is ok in my mind (:smallwink:), since Warlock doesn't scale off of INT (Number of Memory Object aside), and I like having the photographic memory thing in there to really encourage the use of the pact boon. You make a salient point about Amanuensis, but I contest that you can't cast spells from a memory of a scroll, nor can you copy while viewing one. It was probably a mistake to allow Amanuensis to work from memory, I'll change that. I should probably put some kind of time or quantity limiter on the creation of Memory Objects, perhaps a 10 minute creation time instead.


Some trippy stuff here. All of your subclasses have super cool themes and flavor, but they always have mechanics that are so far outside-the-box that they can't even see it anymore. It's interesting. Some of the stuff borders on genius, and some of it doesn't seem like it was written for the game of D&D.

So what you're saying, is that I'm the Hideo Kojima of homebrew :smallbiggrin:? Jokes aside, thank you! Forget subclasses, not even a full class could capture the breadth of my appreciation :smallsmile:. There are a couple of camps of thought around 5e's design I've seen. The first think it's an easy game for babies (gross paraphrasal for comedic effect ONLY), and prefer 3.5. The second find 5e's simplicity to be elegant, and a beacon toward which to sail future designs. Me, I like some of what we have, ad very much appreciate the approachability (I grew up reading 3.5 sourcebooks. Even though I loved it, even now I still do not understand how to play 3.5), but at once think 5e's been far too reductive in some ways. That averages out to something I like to call "Good Iron". I see 5e like a box of Tinkertoys. Tools to build something greater, and more - which means more complex at times, certainly. Most times where I'm concerned, admittedly...
Which bits are you having a hard time grasping here (Which is a little ironic considering the theming of the subclass...)?


Anyway, the pact boon is neat, like that memory bowl thing from Harry Potter. Need-to-Know, and Beyond Ken are good. All of the reading-triggered abilities are cool, but I feel like they are going to be pretty difficult to set up in a regular bog-standard fantasy campaign. It would have to be a very spy-heavy, social campaign to see regular use. [/SPOILER]

Glad you like it! I have to admit, the Pensive was not my first thought, but I do see it. Read the Invocations a bit more closely. I was actually concerned that some of them were a bit TOO good, albeit dependent on being enabled by the Frenzy Mechanic in some ways.

Let's harken back to that example I gave in the Pact of Memories section. What you're doing, in essence, is "Storing" those 2 points of Frenzy in a Memory Object. The way I'd handle it if you were to get those points cured while you still possessed the memory in your mind is that your mind has accepted that particular memory, and that it no longer troubles you. Now, let's say you turned that same memory into a dagger and stabbed someone with it. In living your memory out (Which is NOT the same as viewing it with the Pact of Memories video-play feature), they'd have to save or whatever, or risk gaining the same Frenzy you did. And if you were, for example, using Remember Me to cast and AOE spell instead, every creature would have to save...

Furthermore, consider Not Quite The Same. Not Quite the same effectively combines with Remember Me/Edge of My Sword and
the writing-based trap spells to allow you to piggyback Glyphs or other traps onto other attacks and spells. Let's say you cast Dissonant Whispers on an enemy, and use a memory with a Frenzy Value of 2, that is trapped with a Glyph of Warding that casts Mind Spike. You can optionally use Whole Truth to enhance the glyph, the object, AND the spell in the glyph with one of the three bonus effects (Albeit at a steep cost). That spell is friggen loaded. Honestly, listening to it, I probably need to tune it down.

You're certainly right it would be great in an intrigue campaign, though. And consider that this subclass is all about weaponizing the side effects of your research. What the knowledge you are seeking actually does could be something else entirely (campaign dependent of course).

Segev
2020-05-05, 04:10 PM
*cough* Keen Mind is great in the right situations. I love it on an illusionist. Really, anybody with minor illusion can turn it into permanent long-term memory just by reviewing stuff they know with illusions to keep it freshly seen or heard. And that's only half the feat. Though I admit knowing the time and north is more situational.

thisdude9001
2020-05-06, 01:14 PM
Bardic College, you need to mention that for the sake of clarity.

Living Art: How does the bard command them? What do they do if there is no command? How long does it take to make them? Can you have more than one at a time?

I can't believe I am saying this, but level 3 seems weak you need more. May I suggest an extra use for bardic inspiration? That is standard for a bard from official sources.


Protection of Expression: So, it lasts half your level in rounds. And it gets HP = bard level + charisma. Does each person get that much damage reduction, or is it overall? If it's each person, then it seem cool. If it's overall it's underpowered.


Artistic Details:
Reach: Can this be applied more than once?
There is nothing to increase the to hit chance that I see. a +2 is not going to cut it for long.





Mentioned and clarified
added turns and commands stuff
I'll try and think something up extra for 3rd level. But I don't think it's to underpowered having a flat 1d6 extra damage, a semi-meat shield and an extra set of hands.
It's overall
Doesn't say it can and added something to add higher hit chance

MoleMage
2020-05-14, 11:26 AM
Still trying to think of an idea for this one. But I have a question I want to get peoples' opinion on.

How long should we wait before reintroducing old themes back into the pool? There's no real reason we couldn't do a second It's Technical eventually, I'm just wondering how long everyone would rather we wait in between.

SleeplessWriter
2020-05-14, 12:35 PM
Still trying to think of an idea for this one. But I have a question I want to get peoples' opinion on.

How long should we wait before reintroducing old themes back into the pool? There's no real reason we couldn't do a second It's Technical eventually, I'm just wondering how long everyone would rather we wait in between.

I'd say three or four contests would be a good minimum for reintroducing an old contest.

nickl_2000
2020-05-15, 06:29 AM
Still trying to think of an idea for this one. But I have a question I want to get peoples' opinion on.

How long should we wait before reintroducing old themes back into the pool? There's no real reason we couldn't do a second It's Technical eventually, I'm just wondering how long everyone would rather we wait in between.

I would say 6 contests. That equates to about 6 months, which seems like a decent amount of time between to me.

Segev
2020-05-15, 10:28 AM
Well, darn. I don't know that I'll get a submission in this time. I had an idea, but I feel like yet-another-tattoo-based-one is overloading it, and (more damning) it was too dependent on a specific other class being present. And I never quite came up with a way to do it stand-alone, keeping ribbon features for cooperation, and make it work out balanced.

I might try still, but good luck to those who did get their ideas written out!

Damon_Tor
2020-05-16, 02:03 PM
I added some new spells that work thematically for the Volumancer (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24477199&postcount=4).

RickAsWritten
2020-05-19, 07:17 AM
Formulated Rage

Starting at 3rd level, you can present your prospective enemies with a form that allows them to proceed with combat in a document-approved manner. Once during your Rage, as an action you can present a creature within 5 feet of you with a magically binding combat approval form. A creature must be able to understand a language for it to know that it must fill-out this form, but it does not need to share a language with you. The creature must spend its next action filling out the form and signing it for verification. As a part of this action, they must make a contested Intelligence check against your Bureaucracy skill. On a successful check, the creature correctly completes the form, and the form disappears. On a failure, it must repeat this action on its next turn. While a creature is in the process of filling out the form, you cannot make weapon attacks against that creature. Impertinence is unbecoming of you.
While a creature is in the process of filling out the form, your Rage can only be ended early if you fall unconscious or if you choose to end it.

Is Formulated Rage still too strong? I know that it doesn't follow the normal standard of design for 5e (a saving throw to negate an effect at the end of each round), but there are at least few spells that require checks instead of saves. If the check was changed from a contested Intelligence check to a contested Wisdom check, it would bring the power level down and still make sense thematically, but I have yet to come up with a good way to restructure the ability to use saving throws without nerfing it into the ground. Any thoughts?

MoleMage
2020-05-21, 04:08 PM
Probably needs a rebalance and it's further afield from the theme than I usually do (Ironically, it would have been better last contest), but it was on my to-make list already. The Constellar Fighter is written for a first draft at least!

I'm sorry I haven't given any feedback this cycle. I either started running or playing in several new games since this one went up, and a lot of my creativity has gone into that lately. I've hit a routine with all of those (hopefully) now, though, and should be able to be more active next contest.

nickl_2000
2020-05-22, 08:51 AM
I added some new spells that work thematically for the Volumancer (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24477199&postcount=4).

Not sure I'm a big fan of the time increasing/decreasing on the casting of the spells. It's an added complication I wouldn't want to deal with as a DM, but that is just me.

Scroll of Instruction - This one seems broken to me. A second level spell that gives proficiency with a skill for 10 days?



Formulated Rage

Starting at 3rd level, you can present your prospective enemies with a form that allows them to proceed with combat in a document-approved manner. Once during your Rage, as an action you can present a creature within 5 feet of you with a magically binding combat approval form. A creature must be able to understand a language for it to know that it must fill-out this form, but it does not need to share a language with you. The creature must spend its next action filling out the form and signing it for verification. As a part of this action, they must make a contested Intelligence check against your Bureaucracy skill. On a successful check, the creature correctly completes the form, and the form disappears. On a failure, it must repeat this action on its next turn. While a creature is in the process of filling out the form, you cannot make weapon attacks against that creature. Impertinence is unbecoming of you.
While a creature is in the process of filling out the form, your Rage can only be ended early if you fall unconscious or if you choose to end it.

Is Formulated Rage still too strong? I know that it doesn't follow the normal standard of design for 5e (a saving throw to negate an effect at the end of each round), but there are at least few spells that require checks instead of saves. If the check was changed from a contested Intelligence check to a contested Wisdom check, it would bring the power level down and still make sense thematically, but I have yet to come up with a good way to restructure the ability to use saving throws without nerfing it into the ground. Any thoughts?

My biggest issue with it right now is that there is no way for them to prevent it from the beginning. When you use this ability, you guarantee that you shut down a creature for 1 round, which can make a gigantic difference in a single fight.



Probably needs a rebalance and it's further afield from the theme than I usually do (Ironically, it would have been better last contest), but it was on my to-make list already. The Constellar Fighter is written for a first draft at least!

I'm sorry I haven't given any feedback this cycle. I either started running or playing in several new games since this one went up, and a lot of my creativity has gone into that lately. I've hit a routine with all of those (hopefully) now, though, and should be able to be more active next contest.


Astronomers tools don't actually exist in 5e, so you may want to define them with their weight and cost and such.

Constellar Technique - That's pretty harsh that it uses you action surge, considering just how good action surge it. However, as long as the power of these is decent then it will probably be fine.

It seemed like level 3 was pretty front loaded at first, but while looking at it more it's seem fine.

Armor Etching - Technically this allows the PC to etch it on armor or a shield then give it to someone else (you can also do this for a . Is this on purpose? Also, you should mention in here that you still only get one use of the etching. As I was reading it, I was thinking you could do 1 weapon and 1 armor. However, in read further the 15th levle ability lets you do that.

Convergence Signs - This skill is pretty meh in my mind personally. I can get opposing signs by doing an ally of an ally already if I want ti badly enough. Something else would be nice here.

Improved Constellar Techniques - This ability is kind of not exciting for a capstone. You get one more use of a power that you have already been using for a long time with action surges. Also, 1 more use per long rest is even less exciting when you are getting your 2 uses of action surge back with a short rest. I would re-consider this ability, or at least give it back at the end of a short rest instead of a long one.

-For Weapon on the judge, do you round up or down for force damage?
-Armor on the emperor, does that stack with Defensive fighting style?-
-Weapon on the Siblings, may want to make this not stack with advantage. It's a huge boon with SS or GWM (especially archery style, advantage, a magic weapon, and SS). I would abuse the heck out of this.
-Constellar Technique on the Siblings is really, really abusable by a Rogue/Fighter multiclass. So, so many sneak attacks with an archer.
-Constellar Technique on the Gambler is not worth it. A single attack at advantage at the cost of an action surge? I don't think I would ever bother.

Overall I like the subclass, there are a lot of good things going on here. For the most part I have questions, but a few other comments.

RickAsWritten
2020-05-22, 09:56 AM
My biggest issue with it right now is that there is no way for them to prevent it from the beginning. When you use this ability, you guarantee that you shut down a creature for 1 round, which can make a gigantic difference in a single fight.

Mmmm, valid point. Thinking about it on those terms, it's pretty similar to the spell Phantasmal Force. So a change to: save on activation and then a skill check to get rid of; probably make it a Wisdom save since it's still pretty strong and collectively, monsters have much higher Wisdom than Intelligence.

Barbarian Primal Path: Path of the Bureaucrat (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24477594&postcount=8)

I updated it. Thanks nickl_2000, I always look forward to your input, and had had a bit of homebrewer's block on how to fix it.

nickl_2000
2020-05-22, 10:06 AM
Mmmm, valid point. Thinking about it on those terms, it's pretty similar to the spell Phantasmal Force. So a change to: save on activation and then a skill check to get rid of; probably make it a Wisdom save since it's still pretty strong and collectively, monsters have much higher Wisdom than Intelligence.

Barbarian Primal Path: Path of the Bureaucrat (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24477594&postcount=8)

I updated it. Thanks nickl_2000, I always look forward to your input, and had had a bit of homebrewer's block on how to fix it.

That works perfectly me :smallbiggrin:

MoleMage
2020-05-22, 01:11 PM
Astronomers tools don't actually exist in 5e, so you may want to define them with their weight and cost and such.

Constellar Technique - That's pretty harsh that it uses you action surge, considering just how good action surge it. However, as long as the power of these is decent then it will probably be fine.

It seemed like level 3 was pretty front loaded at first, but while looking at it more it's seem fine.

Armor Etching - Technically this allows the PC to etch it on armor or a shield then give it to someone else (you can also do this for a . Is this on purpose? Also, you should mention in here that you still only get one use of the etching. As I was reading it, I was thinking you could do 1 weapon and 1 armor. However, in read further the 15th levle ability lets you do that.

Convergence Signs - This skill is pretty meh in my mind personally. I can get opposing signs by doing an ally of an ally already if I want ti badly enough. Something else would be nice here.

Improved Constellar Techniques - This ability is kind of not exciting for a capstone. You get one more use of a power that you have already been using for a long time with action surges. Also, 1 more use per long rest is even less exciting when you are getting your 2 uses of action surge back with a short rest. I would re-consider this ability, or at least give it back at the end of a short rest instead of a long one.

-For Weapon on the judge, do you round up or down for force damage?
-Armor on the emperor, does that stack with Defensive fighting style?-
-Weapon on the Siblings, may want to make this not stack with advantage. It's a huge boon with SS or GWM (especially archery style, advantage, a magic weapon, and SS). I would abuse the heck out of this.
-Constellar Technique on the Siblings is really, really abusable by a Rogue/Fighter multiclass. So, so many sneak attacks with an archer.
-Constellar Technique on the Gambler is not worth it. A single attack at advantage at the cost of an action surge? I don't think I would ever bother.

Overall I like the subclass, there are a lot of good things going on here. For the most part I have questions, but a few other comments.



I could have sworn they existed. I'll add a weight and cost here.

Armor Etching is supposed to allow Weapon + Armor as soon as it's gained. Dual Etching at 15 is supposed to allow Weapon + Armor + (Weapon or Armor). I'll try to fix the wording.

I'll add something bigger in addition to Convergence Signs but I will note that you only learn 4 signs naturally (2 to start, +1 at 7 and again at 15), and there are 8 total signs, so you can't get any sign and its opposite through other means besides Convergence Signs. (If you started with The Hunter/The Soldier, you'd only be able to reach The Judge using the normal signs learned). That said this is still a pretty weak feature for level 10 and I'll come up with something in the next two days to hopefully make it stronger.

Improved Constellar Techniques At this point I wasn't sure what else to give the class. I considered introducing a stronger version of each technique, but there's already a lot going on with each sign. I could bump this up to short rest recovery though.

Armor for the Emperor does stack with Defensive fighting style, but not with magic equipment. I'm not sure what you mean for Weapon on the Siblings and advantage (do you mean The Gambler?). I may change this to granting allies the bonus instead though (similar to Wolf Totem Barbarian, but +1 instead of advantage).

Technique: Siblings Yeah I wrote this all in one big chunk and didn't really do a balance pass to consider multiclass yet. I wasn't satisfied with the longer duration on this effect anyway, I'd rather limit the techniques to short-duration effects.
Technique: Gambler I wanted to be cautious, since the main use for this is forcing an enemy to attack another enemy, and a lot of enemies have much bigger damage dice than player characters. When you get it at level 3, it matches Action Surge (1 extra attack) and is actually slightly better because of Advantage, though against large groups of weak enemies you'd probably still use the baseline AS. At level 5, it's not quite as good as AS by itself but the Advantage and potential for larger damage makes it situationally better. At level 11 (Extra Attack 2), you can get two such attacks, potentially having both with advantage, keeping it situational (though for level 10 it's once again strictly better). Level 20 is the only level where I'd say that AS is strictly better, and even there if you're fighting at least two monsters and at least one of them has an attack that does more average damage than two of yours, this is better. I'll remove the restriction on focusing on one target to make this a little more palatable.



Thanks for feedback even though I posted with like...three days to go!

nickl_2000
2020-05-22, 01:27 PM
I could have sworn they existed. I'll add a weight and cost here.

Armor Etching is supposed to allow Weapon + Armor as soon as it's gained. Dual Etching at 15 is supposed to allow Weapon + Armor + (Weapon or Armor). I'll try to fix the wording.

I'll add something bigger in addition to Convergence Signs but I will note that you only learn 4 signs naturally (2 to start, +1 at 7 and again at 15), and there are 8 total signs, so you can't get any sign and its opposite through other means besides Convergence Signs. (If you started with The Hunter/The Soldier, you'd only be able to reach The Judge using the normal signs learned). That said this is still a pretty weak feature for level 10 and I'll come up with something in the next two days to hopefully make it stronger.

Improved Constellar Techniques At this point I wasn't sure what else to give the class. I considered introducing a stronger version of each technique, but there's already a lot going on with each sign. I could bump this up to short rest recovery though.

Armor for the Emperor does stack with Defensive fighting style, but not with magic equipment. I'm not sure what you mean for Weapon on the Siblings and advantage (do you mean The Gambler?). I may change this to granting allies the bonus instead though (similar to Wolf Totem Barbarian, but +1 instead of advantage).

Technique: Siblings Yeah I wrote this all in one big chunk and didn't really do a balance pass to consider multiclass yet. I wasn't satisfied with the longer duration on this effect anyway, I'd rather limit the techniques to short-duration effects.
Technique: Gambler I wanted to be cautious, since the main use for this is forcing an enemy to attack another enemy, and a lot of enemies have much bigger damage dice than player characters. When you get it at level 3, it matches Action Surge (1 extra attack) and is actually slightly better because of Advantage, though against large groups of weak enemies you'd probably still use the baseline AS. At level 5, it's not quite as good as AS by itself but the Advantage and potential for larger damage makes it situationally better. At level 11 (Extra Attack 2), you can get two such attacks, potentially having both with advantage, keeping it situational (though for level 10 it's once again strictly better). Level 20 is the only level where I'd say that AS is strictly better, and even there if you're fighting at least two monsters and at least one of them has an attack that does more average damage than two of yours, this is better. I'll remove the restriction on focusing on one target to make this a little more palatable.



Thanks for feedback even though I posted with like...three days to go!

For the weapon, I meant the siblings. You are giving a +1 to hit, which can stack with magical bonuses and advantage. Add onto that +2 to hit with archery fighting style and you can get a massive, massive bonus to hit.

For the gambler I totally misunderstood what was happening there. You should clarify that you are forcing an enemy to attack another enemy. I was just thinking that you were just giving your ally advantage on an attack against an enemy. That completely changes this ability to me. Yes, it is certainly worth it at this point!


I apologize for not understanding everything, I was trying to get comments out quickly and clearly misunderstood some of the abilities. You've got a great start going though!

MoleMage
2020-05-22, 01:52 PM
For the weapon, I meant the siblings. You are giving a +1 to hit, which can stack with magical bonuses and advantage. Add onto that +2 to hit with archery fighting style and you can get a massive, massive bonus to hit.

For the gambler I totally misunderstood what was happening there. You should clarify that you are forcing an enemy to attack another enemy. I was just thinking that you were just giving your ally advantage on an attack against an enemy. That completely changes this ability to me. Yes, it is certainly worth it at this point!


I apologize for not understanding everything, I was trying to get comments out quickly and clearly misunderstood some of the abilities. You've got a great start going though!

I changed the siblings. It now is 1/round advantage with the same conditions. I also changed their Technique, though I'm still not perfectly happy with it (it's basically a different version of the Emperor's).
I changed the "if both creatures are allied" to "if both creatures are hostile to you" in the Gambler to draw attention to the fact that it can (and indeed is encouraged) to be used on hostiles. Technically this is also a slight buff in situations where there are two different groups of bad guys fighting you, but that fits the theme of The Gambler anyway.

nickl_2000
2020-05-22, 02:38 PM
I changed the siblings. It now is 1/round advantage with the same conditions. I also changed their Technique, though I'm still not perfectly happy with it (it's basically a different version of the Emperor's).
I changed the "if both creatures are allied" to "if both creatures are hostile to you" in the Gambler to draw attention to the fact that it can (and indeed is encouraged) to be used on hostiles. Technically this is also a slight buff in situations where there are two different groups of bad guys fighting you, but that fits the theme of The Gambler anyway.

I think the issue for me is the clarity of the first sentence. Instead of "A single creature you can see within 30 feet makes a weapon attack against another creature within its range which you can see"

"You force a single creature you can see..." This has the action (action as in verb, not D&D action) in there making it clear that you are making someone do something against their will.

Damon_Tor
2020-05-23, 04:49 AM
Not sure I'm a big fan of the time increasing/decreasing on the casting of the spells. It's an added complication I wouldn't want to deal with as a DM, but that is just me.

And most of the time it wouldn't be relevant: you'd either have the time to read it or you wouldn't. It's there for the odd situation where timing is relevant, but I think it's safely ignored.


Scroll of Instruction - This one seems broken to me. A second level spell that gives proficiency with a skill for 10 days?

A few points:

The scroll itself lasts 10 days (if you don't use it) but the spell ends when the scroll is read, and the proficiency only lasts 24 hours. Most of these spells work this way, with the duration being the "shelf life" of the scroll while the duration of the buff/debuff is noted in the spell description.
The scroll can only grant proficiency in a skill, tool, or language you are already proficient in, so it's entirely a way to buff an ally, it's useless on yourself. And even then you're only allowing that ally to help cover a skill/tool you already are good at, or a language you can already translate. For the vast majority of skills/tools that puts this solidly in the "very situational" category. The outliers here are Stealth and Perception, where it's always good to have everyone on the team up to par, but even there the spell compares poorly to a spell like Enhance Ability, which is much more versatile and powerful. The main benefit of the scroll by comparison is that it can be "pre-cast" using the slots from the day before and the buff itself lasts a whole day.
The spell also consumes 10 gp. That's a token cost, but it's enough to make you pause and think about whether or not you really need to spend your slots making scrolls before you go to bed or not.
The long casting time means if you don't already have one of them on you when you need it, you probably don't have the time to cast it, and you have to pick the skill/tool/language at the time of casting. That means it's not useful for unexpected situations, further narrowing its niche.

nickl_2000
2020-05-23, 09:52 AM
And most of the time it wouldn't be relevant: you'd either have the time to read it or you wouldn't. It's there for the odd situation where timing is relevant, but I think it's safely ignored.



A few points:

The scroll itself lasts 10 days (if you don't use it) but the spell ends when the scroll is read, and the proficiency only lasts 24 hours. Most of these spells work this way, with the duration being the "shelf life" of the scroll while the duration of the buff/debuff is noted in the spell description.
The scroll can only grant proficiency in a skill, tool, or language you are already proficient in, so it's entirely a way to buff an ally, it's useless on yourself. And even then you're only allowing that ally to help cover a skill/tool you already are good at, or a language you can already translate. For the vast majority of skills/tools that puts this solidly in the "very situational" category. The outliers here are Stealth and Perception, where it's always good to have everyone on the team up to par, but even there the spell compares poorly to a spell like Enhance Ability, which is much more versatile and powerful. The main benefit of the scroll by comparison is that it can be "pre-cast" using the slots from the day before and the buff itself lasts a whole day.
The spell also consumes 10 gp. That's a token cost, but it's enough to make you pause and think about whether or not you really need to spend your slots making scrolls before you go to bed or not.
The long casting time means if you don't already have one of them on you when you need it, you probably don't have the time to cast it, and you have to pick the skill/tool/language at the time of casting. That means it's not useful for unexpected situations, further narrowing its niche.



I was completely and utterly confused by the spell and misreading it, after you explained all this I withdraw my complaint. With the duration of 10 days, I thought that mean you get the skill for 10 days and missed reading a lot of the words.

MoleMage
2020-05-25, 02:24 PM
Voting thread for Contest XV is up now!

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?612981-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XV-Voting-Thread&p=24528746#post24528746