Is this monk sub-class worth it? Help me like it.

[Tabris2k]

Hi everybody, first of all, I'm from Spain, and I'm gonna talk about a spanish game (although is really D&D 5e), so some things will be translated by me, sorry if I mess up.

Ok, my group is starting a new campaign. We're using "El Resurgir del Dragón" (Resurgence of the Dragon). Basically, when WotC decided not to translate 5e to other languages, a spanish publisher translated the SRD and added a few more things of their own, creating a new Campaign Setting in a world called Voldor. Of course, as soon as they finished, WotC decided to finally translate 5e to spanish, but that's another story.

So, they took the SRD monk, that only has the Way of the Open Hand, and added two new monastic traditions. One of them is basically an anti-arcane user sub-class, and the other one is their take on a Kensei monk, which I really want to use, but it seems to me that is under-powered compared to WotOH. So I want your opinion on this sub-class, and if you think it's a viable option:

The Way of War:

-Superior weapons: at levels 3/6/11/17 you get training in a new weapon, to choose from whip, moonblade (halberd), watersabre (longsword) and shortbow. You get access to special features of each weapon at those levels.

Whip:
-level 3: Proficiency with whip and count as a monk weapon for you.
-level 6: You can use Deflect missiles with the whip. You add your Martial Arts dice to the reduced damage. Still need a free hand.
-level 11: When an opponent at whip's reach attack, spend 1 Ki point and your reaction. Opponent must succeed at TS(DEX) or that attack misses.
-level 17: You can use the grapple action with your whip, with creatures at whip's reach.

Moonblade:
-level 3: Proficiency with Halberd and count as a monk weapon for you.
-level 6: Halberd attacks count as magical for resistance and immunity purposes.
-level 11: You can use the halberd instead of unarmed strike for Flurry of Blows.
-level 17:+10 reach, including AoOs. (Meaning attacking and AoO at 15 feet)

Watersabre:
-level 3: Proficiency with longsword and count as a monk weapon for you.
-level 6: when you hit an enemy with a longsword, +2 AC for you against all attacks from that enemy.
-level 11: when you hit an enemy with a longsword, Flurry of Blows unarmed attacks against that enemy are made with advantage.
-level 17: you crit at 19-20 with longsword attacks.

Short Bow:
-level 3: Proficiency with short bow and count as a monk weapon for you.
-level 6: Attacks with short bow in close combat are made without disadvantage.
-level 11: You can use Stunning Strike with the Short Bow
-level 17: You never have disadvantage with short bow attacks.

That's it. I doubt we will ever reach level 17, so those are kind of wasted for me, but don't let that stopping you for using those features to analyse the sub-class.

Apart from that, we don't have access to 5e feats, just feats from the "El Resurgir del Dragon" book, which are kind of "meh" for me. Also, there are a lot more races and different subraces. I went with what basically is a wood elf (+2 DEX and +1 WIS). There's one, the Arainas (spiderfolk) that has 4 arms, capable of holding weapons, that could work with this sub-class (holding three weapons at once and exchanging weapons between attacks), but their stats are +2 STR and +1 INT, which are a waste in a monk.

And that's all, I'd appreciate it if you help me with this.

(edited because I messed up with the levels, you get a new feature at level 6, not 7 as I posted)

[CTurbo]

First of all, I think the level 3 features are too weak. They need something more than just the specific weapon proficiency.

I think the whip option is too weak overall. The options you have are flavorful, it just needs something else.

I think the Moonblade option is too strong. Being able to Flurry with it at level 11 is too strong. What would trigger an AoO for the level 17 feature? I'm thinking this is too strong too, but I may not understand what you're getting at with it. Being able to wield a Halberd with Dex is also odd.

The Watersabre option is decent. You don't specify if it can be used in 1 or 2 hands? The level 17 feature is too weak and should probably be included with the level 3 feature.

The Short bow option is odd. Being able to use stunning strike with it doesn't make any sense. This may have been better for the whip. Also never having disadvantage with it is also weird. It seems like it would rarely come up, and then I can also see ways to abuse it like with a blind character.

[strangebloke]

I think they're all pretty weak, with water Sabre being the only one to get anything really useful before level 11.

The biggest bonus to longsword/glaive as monk weapons is the damage increase. Reach is kind of eh, since if you're using flurry you'll want to be within five feet anyway. So longsword is as good as the glaive, having d10 for damage. And the level six ability for the longsword is way better than the glaive level six ability.

[Tabris2k]

Bear in mind that this is not a class I made, it just came like this straight out of the book we're using. So I can't change anything, really, just want to know if this is viable as an option for monk, or if it would be better to just stick with Way of the open Hand. Your answer seems to imply that you think this is a homebrew class, sorry if I misunderstood that.


First of all, I think the level 3 features are too weak. They need something more than just the specific weapon proficiency.
Yeah, the class really start to kick in at level 6, because at that level you'll have training with two weapons with two unique features.


I think the Moonblade option is too strong. Being able to Flurry with it at level 11 is too strong. What would trigger an AoO for the level 17 feature? I'm thinking this is too strong too, but I may not understand what you're getting at with it. Being able to wield a Halberd with Dex is also odd
Really? The Flurry option just upgrade your damage dice from 1d8 to 1d10, and that's only until you reach level 17, then it's the same. The biggest difference will be able to hit and Flurry with reach. The AoO gets triggered as any normal AoO. I agree with the DEX part, I think they made the moonblade similar to a Naginata, if that explains it.


The Watersabre option is decent. You don't specify if it can be used in 1 or 2 hands? The level 17 feature is too weak and should probably be included with the level 3 feature.
I don't know, they don't specify it in the rules. I'd say yes. I'm not fan of 19-20 crits, either. Too unreliable, and not enough at that level.


The Short bow option is odd. Being able to use stunning strike with it doesn't make any sense. This may have been better for the whip. Also never having disadvantage with it is also weird. It seems like it would rarely come up, and then I can also see ways to abuse it like with a blind character.
The Stunning Strike with the bow is one of the few features I really like from this sub-class. The disadvantage rule basically extends the range of the short bow, and make it easier to hit invisible creatures.

[strangebloke]

I don't know, they don't specify it in the rules. I'd say yes. I'm not fan of 19-20 crits, either. Too unreliable, and not enough at that level.


Just a note here. I agree that it's probably too weak at level 17 by itself, but 19-20 crits are quite strong. They're roughly as good as a +1 to attack rolls, or a +2 to attack rolls if you have advantage.

[Tabris2k]

I think they're all pretty weak, with water Sabre being the only one to get anything really useful before level 11.

The biggest bonus to longsword/glaive as monk weapons is the damage increase. Reach is kind of eh, since if you're using flurry you'll want to be within five feet anyway. So longsword is as good as the glaive, having d10 for damage. And the level six ability for the longsword is way better than the glaive level six ability.
Being able to use the Halberd instead of unarmed strikes when you Flurry makes possible to Flurry with reach, but, as you said, that's at level 11. The increased Damage dice is cool, as you said, but I'm not sure it makes up for the loss of the Open Hand Technique options.

[Citan]

Hi everybody, first of all, I'm from Spain, and I'm gonna talk about a spanish game (although is really D&D 5e), so some things will be translated by me, sorry if I mess up.

Ok, my group is starting a new campaign. We're using "El Resurgir del Dragón" (Resurgence of the Dragon). Basically, when WotC decided not to translate 5e to other languages, a spanish publisher translated the SRD and added a few more things of their own, creating a new Campaign Setting in a world called Voldor. Of course, as soon as they finished, WotC decided to finally translate 5e to spanish, but that's another story.

So, they took the SRD monk, that only has the Way of the Open Hand, and added two new monastic traditions. One of them is basically an anti-arcane user sub-class, and the other one is their take on a Kensei monk, which I really want to use, but it seems to me that is under-powered compared to WotOH. So I want your opinion on this sub-class, and if you think it's a viable option:

The Way of War:

-Superior weapons: at levels 3/6/11/17 you get training in a new weapon, to choose from whip, moonblade (halberd), watersabre (longsword) and shortbow. You get access to special features of each weapon at those levels.

Whip:
-level 3: Proficiency with whip and count as a monk weapon for you.
-level 6: You can use Deflect missiles with the whip. You add your Martial Arts dice to the reduced damage. Still need a free hand.
-level 11: When an opponent at whip's reach attack, spend 1 Ki point and your reaction. Opponent must succeed at TS(DEX) or that attack misses.
-level 17: You can use the grapple action with your whip, with creatures at whip's reach.

Moonblade:
-level 3: Proficiency with Halberd and count as a monk weapon for you.
-level 6: Halberd attacks count as magical for resistance and immunity purposes.
-level 11: You can use the halberd instead of unarmed strike for Flurry of Blows.
-level 17:+10 reach, including AoOs. (Meaning attacking and AoO at 15 feet)

Watersabre:
-level 3: Proficiency with longsword and count as a monk weapon for you.
-level 6: when you hit an enemy with a longsword, +2 AC for you against all attacks from that enemy.
-level 11: when you hit an enemy with a longsword, Flurry of Blows unarmed attacks against that enemy are made with advantage.
-level 17: you crit at 19-20 with longsword attacks.

Short Bow:
-level 3: Proficiency with short bow and count as a monk weapon for you.
-level 6: Attacks with short bow in close combat are made without disadvantage.
-level 11: You can use Stunning Strike with the Short Bow
-level 17: You never have disadvantage with short bow attacks.

That's it. I doubt we will ever reach level 17, so those are kind of wasted for me, but don't let that stopping you for using those features to analyse the sub-class.

Apart from that, we don't have access to 5e feats, just feats from the "El Resurgir del Dragon" book, which are kind of "meh" for me. Also, there are a lot more races and different subraces. I went with what basically is a wood elf (+2 DEX and +1 WIS). There's one, the Arainas (spiderfolk) that has 4 arms, capable of holding weapons, that could work with this sub-class (holding three weapons at once and exchanging weapons between attacks), but their stats are +2 STR and +1 INT, which are a waste in a monk.

And that's all, I'd appreciate it if you help me with this.

(edited because I messed up with the levels, you get a new feature at level 6, not 7 as I posted)
Hi!

Well, I really understand why other's critics are that strong against this "published priced homebrew".

Whip options:
lvl 3: you gain a 10 feet reach weapon, which is pretty nice when at that level you still don't have that much speed and don't want to spend ki just on Disengage.
lvl 6: that one is lackluster, unless I missed something like it's actually "deflect all missiles".
lvl 11: you get something like "Protection" fighting style, except it's a 10 feet reach and the opponent doesn't just get disadvantage on attack, it has to succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or miss. This is strong. Actually, this is even very good.
lvl 17: this is great in principle, but why at level 17? Should have been level 6, 11 at most. Isn't this why people want to play with whips in the first place? :)
>>> There is one feature that is "bad", which in turns puts the interesting ones too far away sadly. Pull 11 and 17 features one "step" early and you'd be good to go (although you'd need to find another level 17 feature). Too bad because it's otherwise an interesting take at giving a secondary defender role, like if you were mixing Monk with a shield Fighter.
It's not one archetype I'd recommend overall though, at least as written. There are better ways to achieve this.


Moonblade:
3: another reach weapon with great damage, nice!
6: just following the logic, nothing impressive but good.
11: YMMV here: if you take it "in the void", it's just an early upgrade on your damage (you would end with that die size anyways). Although it also expands your reach compared to normal Flurry, which is also great. If you have people in party that can buff you with weapon magic? You'll be the MVP of all martials of your party, easy.
17: Veeeery strong: you can now attack without risking OAs against 90% enemies, even those Large ones. And you get an impressive threatening area to enable OA with. Even without 5e feats this is great. With Polearm Master it would become stupid. XD
>>> Basically, it's their take on mixing Monk with a Fighter aka "be great at damage".
I'd have no problem playing this archetype: while I'd prefer Kensei overall for a normal adventure, if I had the chance of playing a high-level character I'd pick this one over without regrets (especially with feats or multiclassing involved).


Sword
3: nothing special here AFAIK.
6: pretty strong benefit in general, but for a Monk? You don't usually stay in place. This feature would have been much more suited on a Fighter or Rogue. Still interesting though.
11: YMMV: this feature is pretty interesting in the void, because it gives you naturally advantage on your turn, for up to 3 attacks (if you are lucky enough to hit on the first try). With that said, there are many ways to get advantage on an opponent, so depending on your party composition this may end completely useless. Like the other feature earlier, this would have been better on a Fighter or dual-wielding Rogue.
17: nice feature but unimpressive as a level 17 one. At least it doesn't harm your Monk progression compared to a Champion dip, but that's all.
>>> They basically tried to give a Swashbuckler Rogue dip into Monk to make a "duelist".
This can certainly work but imo it's not the best way to play a Monk, and it would be much better achieved by directly multiclassing, unless you expect going high-level (in which case this archetype does have some value because it doesn't break progression).

Shortbow
lvl 3: you cover (heh) one of the biggest weak points of Monk (namely ranged attacks) in a great way. Cool! Of course, Kensei could get the longbow, we can feel that this one was published earlier otherwise they would have aligned probably.
lvl 6: this is great. Very simply put: you can use your shortbow as a melee weapon without harm, so you can make it your main weapon for any and all times (and since per Sage Advice you don't need to hold a two-handed weapon with both hands except when using it to attack, no problem Flurrying either).
lvl 11: this is borderline OP. Yeah, sorry guys, those saying it's weak, you're out of your minds. Stunned condition is (for good reason) the one feature of Monks that is enjoyed in parties and revered by all. It does come at a high cost though, namely getting right into danger. With this? No problem anymore.
lvl 17: another borderline OP. "Never have disadvantage on attacks" mean that even against an invisible enemy, even if you're blinded, even if you're prone, even if you're making long range attack, even if you're all of that at once... You still attack as nothing was happening.
Considering the stupid way advantage and disadvantage on applied especially on the vision part, this is a huge advantage.
>>> This one is very strong from start to finish, and easily trump Kensei unless, for some reason, you didn't want to play Monk's iconic feature. In fact, as soon as you reach level 11, it probably trumps every other archetype except 4E (because this one is too different in mechanics to be really compared) and Shadow (same).


TL;DR: they tried to push the Monk in a specific direction each time. Overall their archetypes are all very fine for high-level characters. Which is not the majority of play though.
On the road towards that...
1. Shortbow: just pick it and storm the front, it is reaaally great and beats Kensei all the way at least if you planned on using ranged attacks.
2. Moonblade: overall less interesting than Kensei up to level 11, will be much better at 11 (only) if you can find good magic weapons or have someone buff it, and squashes it hard at level 17. The second best simply because it basically makes you a fully functional Monk with a 10/15/20 feet reach.
3. Sword: interesting, but nothing crazy compared to Kensei. Overall Kensei would be better I think, maybe even Drunken Master.
4. Whip: could have been very nice, but (again if I understood correctly the level 6 feature) getting basically only a 5 feet reach improvement on Attack until level 11 makes it fail hard in my book. I'd never pick it as written.

[Tabris2k]

Hi!

Well, I really understand why other's critics are that strong against this "published priced homebrew".

Whip options:
lvl 3: you gain a 10 feet reach weapon, which is pretty nice when at that level you still don't have that much speed and don't want to spend ki just on Disengage.
lvl 6: that one is lackluster, unless I missed something like it's actually "deflect all missiles".
lvl 11: you get something like "Protection" fighting style, except it's a 10 feet reach and the opponent doesn't just get disadvantage on attack, it has to succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or miss. This is strong. Actually, this is even very good.
lvl 17: this is great in principle, but why at level 17? Should have been level 6, 11 at most. Isn't this why people want to play with whips in the first place? :)
>>> There is one feature that is "bad", which in turns puts the interesting ones too far away sadly. Pull 11 and 17 features one "step" early and you'd be good to go (although you'd need to find another level 17 feature). Too bad because it's otherwise an interesting take at giving a secondary defender role, like if you were mixing Monk with a shield Fighter.
It's not one archetype I'd recommend overall though, at least as written. There are better ways to achieve this.


Moonblade:
3: another reach weapon with great damage, nice!
6: just following the logic, nothing impressive but good.
11: YMMV here: if you take it "in the void", it's just an early upgrade on your damage (you would end with that die size anyways). Although it also expands your reach compared to normal Flurry, which is also great. If you have people in party that can buff you with weapon magic? You'll be the MVP of all martials of your party, easy.
17: Veeeery strong: you can now attack without risking OAs against 90% enemies, even those Large ones. And you get an impressive threatening area to enable OA with. Even without 5e feats this is great. With Polearm Master it would become stupid. XD
>>> Basically, it's their take on mixing Monk with a Fighter aka "be great at damage".
I'd have no problem playing this archetype: while I'd prefer Kensei overall for a normal adventure, if I had the chance of playing a high-level character I'd pick this one over without regrets (especially with feats or multiclassing involved).


Sword
3: nothing special here AFAIK.
6: pretty strong benefit in general, but for a Monk? You don't usually stay in place. This feature would have been much more suited on a Fighter or Rogue. Still interesting though.
11: YMMV: this feature is pretty interesting in the void, because it gives you naturally advantage on your turn, for up to 3 attacks (if you are lucky enough to hit on the first try). With that said, there are many ways to get advantage on an opponent, so depending on your party composition this may end completely useless. Like the other feature earlier, this would have been better on a Fighter or dual-wielding Rogue.
17: nice feature but unimpressive as a level 17 one. At least it doesn't harm your Monk progression compared to a Champion dip, but that's all.
>>> They basically tried to give a Swashbuckler Rogue dip into Monk to make a "duelist".
This can certainly work but imo it's not the best way to play a Monk, and it would be much better achieved by directly multiclassing, unless you expect going high-level (in which case this archetype does have some value because it doesn't break progression).

Shortbow
lvl 3: you cover (heh) one of the biggest weak points of Monk (namely ranged attacks) in a great way. Cool! Of course, Kensei could get the longbow, we can feel that this one was published earlier otherwise they would have aligned probably.
lvl 6: this is great. Very simply put: you can use your shortbow as a melee weapon without harm, so you can make it your main weapon for any and all times (and since per Sage Advice you don't need to hold a two-handed weapon with both hands except when using it to attack, no problem Flurrying either).
lvl 11: this is borderline OP. Yeah, sorry guys, those saying it's weak, you're out of your minds. Stunned condition is (for good reason) the one feature of Monks that is enjoyed in parties and revered by all. It does come at a high cost though, namely getting right into danger. With this? No problem anymore.
lvl 17: another borderline OP. "Never have disadvantage on attacks" mean that even against an invisible enemy, even if you're blinded, even if you're prone, even if you're making long range attack, even if you're all of that at once... You still attack as nothing was happening.
Considering the stupid way advantage and disadvantage on applied especially on the vision part, this is a huge advantage.
>>> This one is very strong from start to finish, and easily trump Kensei unless, for some reason, you didn't want to play Monk's iconic feature. In fact, as soon as you reach level 11, it probably trumps every other archetype except 4E (because this one is too different in mechanics to be really compared) and Shadow (same).


TL;DR: they tried to push the Monk in a specific direction each time. Overall their archetypes are all very fine for high-level characters. Which is not the majority of play though.
On the road towards that...
1. Shortbow: just pick it and storm the front, it is reaaally great and beats Kensei all the way at least if you planned on using ranged attacks.
2. Moonblade: overall less interesting than Kensei up to level 11, will be much better at 11 (only) if you can find good magic weapons or have someone buff it, and squashes it hard at level 17. The second best simply because it basically makes you a fully functional Monk with a 10/15/20 feet reach.
3. Sword: interesting, but nothing crazy compared to Kensei. Overall Kensei would be better I think, maybe even Drunken Master.
4. Whip: could have been very nice, but (again if I understood correctly the level 6 feature) getting basically only a 5 feet reach improvement on Attack until level 11 makes it fail hard in my book. I'd never pick it as written.

Hi! Thank you for your thorough analysis!

First thing I'm going to adress is that you treat each weapon as a separate archetype. Probably I wasn't clear in my first post, but at level 3 you get a weapon and its first feature, then at level 6 you get the second feature, you also choose another weapon and get its level 3 & 6 features, and so on... at level 17 you end up with the four weapons and all its features (assuming no multiclassing). Theoretically, you become a "master of many weapon", able to pick up the best weapon for each fight... In practice, you'll have the problem of trying to get 4 magic weapons (probably involving a lot of benevolence from your DM), and you have no easy way of changing them on-the-fly during combat, so you'll probably end up a)Dual wielding the whip and the longsword (don't forget you can Flurry with kicks :smallwink:) or b)just choose one of the two handed weapons, which kind of make the other options pointless.

Although after your answer, I'd try to get a good magic shortbow :smallbiggrin:

Apart from that, a couple points:
The whip grapple feature, even if it comes earlier, still uses STR, which makes it difficult to use for the monk.
Moonblade, I didn't think about buffing damage at all, so yeah, you're probably right and it's pretty strong.
And Shortbow, just thank you because you're really giving me a point of view I haven't even considered (I guess I didn't associate ranged weapon with monk)

Overall, thank you very very much for your thoughts. This is exactly what I was looking for.

[Citan]

Hi! Thank you for your thorough analysis!

First thing I'm going to adress is that you treat each weapon as a separate archetype. Probably I wasn't clear in my first post, but at level 3 you get a weapon and its first feature, then at level 6 you get the second feature, you also choose another weapon and get its level 3 & 6 features, and so on... at level 17 you end up with the four weapons and all its features (assuming no multiclassing). Theoretically, you become a "master of many weapon", able to pick up the best weapon for each fight... In practice, you'll have the problem of trying to get 4 magic weapons (probably involving a lot of benevolence from your DM), and you have no easy way of changing them on-the-fly during combat, so you'll probably end up a)Dual wielding the whip and the longsword (don't forget you can Flurry with kicks :smallwink:) or b)just choose one of the two handed weapons, which kind of make the other options pointless.

Although after your answer, I'd try to get a good magic shortbow :smallbiggrin:

Apart from that, a couple points:
The whip grapple feature, even if it comes earlier, still uses STR, which makes it difficult to use for the monk.
Moonblade, I didn't think about buffing damage at all, so yeah, you're probably right and it's pretty strong.
And Shortbow, just thank you because you're really giving me a point of view I haven't even considered (I guess I didn't associate ranged weapon with monk)

Overall, thank you very very much for your thoughts. This is exactly what I was looking for.
Ok...
I completely didn't understand that, I thought you had to choose a weapon and stick with it.
Revised opinion: this archetype is more powerful than all others in terms of overall benefits. Really better in versatility, even besting 4e (although it will never reach it in terms of AOE).

To address your drawbacks:
1. "Find 4 magic weapons": I'll talk about it after the others actually, but let's stress at least this: at least for the halberd you don't care about it that much, since you bypass resistances.

2. Changing weapons on-the-fly: thanks to the official clarification that you can hold a two-handed with one weapon when you don't use it, I really don't see how this would be a problem. It's not like you'd need to switch every round.
I mean, you probably noticed that each weapon tends to push you into a specific role. That role comes with consequences in terms of positioning and tactic.

If you want to be a defender (whip), you won't care about using a bow for the fight: your priority will be to stay near your friend, just use daggers if needed.
And for the whip's main feature, it's about making an enemy waste an attack, you don't care about it being magical. :)
Meaning that you could use a shortbow, decide to draw a whip near your turn's end to cover for your friend that round specifically, then drop the whip at next turn.

If you are starting the fight with the shortbow, because you want to Stun at the distance, it's exactly the same: you don't care that much about having a magical weapon (apart from the hitting bonuses of course ;)) because your main contribution is the stun effect. And you should rarely need to switch weapons because a) you can attack normally in melee if needed and b) you should try to stay at range anyways, so no other weapon usable.

It's also not like you would not be able to just drop a weapon if needed, even if it means someone would invest an action into retrieving them (you consider your weapons should be magical. I don't ;)).

And let's not forget you have one free interaction per turn for drawing or sheating a weapon. So for example if you start with bow then go into melee, sheathe shortbow at end of your turn (you still have unarmed attacks if need be for OA), then unsheathe halberd at start of your next turn. Easy, right? :)
If you're that worried, ask your DM about grabbing Dual Wielder feat from 5e but imo that's overkill.

3. Whip Grapple feature: yeah, it uses Strength, and Monks usually want to get Dexterity as their main physical stat because of AC. But the thing is, for you it should be an occasional feature, and by the time you get it anyways, there will surely be somone in your party that can improve your bonus. :) Otherwise, a single dip into Rogue for Expertise will take care of that nicely.

So, back to 1.
Do you want 4 magic weapons? Well, probably, I mean, it's always a good thing right?
Do you really need 4 magic weapons? No, certainly not.
What you really need is a Ring of Spell Storing and a friend/NPC that can store spells like Bless, Divine Favor, Flame Arrows, Magic Weapon, Elemental Weapon, Ensnaring Strike, Hex, Hunter's Mark or any of the smite spells.

Confer the previous points: you should rarely need all weapons in the same fight (not only is it impractical for you, it may even be annoying for your friends because it means you're chancing how you contribute too often to be predictible).

With a Ring, you'll always have a minor but still interesting buff to apply to the weapon you decide is right for the next fight.
If you happen to have made the wrong choice? Hey, no worries, you're a Monk. You still have all the base class's awesomeness to rock with.

If you don't fulfill the requirements to make this happening?
Magic Shortbow: highest priority once you get level 11 (Stunning at distance is just too tasty to pass), very low priority until then.
Magic Shortsword: low priority from start: you will mostly use unarmed strikes down the road because of the "advantage" feature and unarmed strikes are magical. On the bright side, it's probably the most common kind of magical item.
Magic Halberd: starting low priority, getting higher priority as you progress: simply because magic item means bonus to hit, and with 4 attacks per turn it's tasty.
Magic Whip: is that even a thing? Seriously, unless you fancy using a whip as your main weapon, you just don't care about it imo: both main features (waste attack, grapple) don't need it plus you get them very late.

I'd take weapons in that order:

Whip: last (unless you really want to protect allies).
Halberd: first or third (depending on your playstyle).
Shortbow: first or third (same).
Longbow: second (simply because the AC bonus may be helpful for a good while).

So, Halberd or Shortbow? To be honest, I'd probably pick Halberd first in all cases, simply because with a shortbow I'd tend to stay too far away from the fight to make use of my other abilities until I get ranged SS.
With that said, counter-argument: at level 6 you won't care anymore about being in close combat or not. ^^
So really both are equally good, it's a matter of taste. :)


Being able to use the Halberd instead of unarmed strikes when you Flurry makes possible to Flurry with reach, but, as you said, that's at level 11. The increased Damage dice is cool, as you said, but I'm not sure it makes up for the loss of the Open Hand Technique options.
Didn't see this part. Well, those are different strengths.
As much as I find this archetype really powerful, it still has several limitations.
On the other Open Hand, the classic from PHB would easily be the better choice if you know your party will have several melee fighters, none of which being a Wolf Barbarian or a Shield Master martial: providing advantage on 2-3-4 allies's melee attacks will always outmatch what you could provide yourself. You can do the same with Stunning Strike, but it's harder to pull since targeting Constitution.

So I'd say current archetype is the best choice because much (MUCH) more versatile, and being a kinda strange mix of Open Hand, Drunken Master and Kensei ^^.
But if you know in advance what your party will be, that it will be melee-heavy, and you know you'll wait a long time before playing 11+ levels, then Open Hand is probably the best: no weapon choice complexity, works well, is known by everyone too. :)


(Also, thanks, my pleasure, glad I could help you see the perks of the archetype ;))

[Lunali]

The one real complaint I have about this isn't the mechanics, but rather the fluff. I would like an explanation on how you hit something 15 ft away with a <10ft long weapon without throwing it. Alternatively, I'll take an explanation of what you do with a 15ft long weapon when you're using a bow.

[Tabris2k]

The one real complaint I have about this isn't the mechanics, but rather the fluff. I would like an explanation on how you hit something 15 ft away with a <10ft long weapon without throwing it. Alternatively, I'll take an explanation of what you do with a 15ft long weapon when you're using a bow.I don’t know, ask the guys who did the archetype 😆 Reading the class description and features, it seems like they’re trying to emulate those warriors from Chinese movies, mixing it with a Shaolin monk. The watersabre will be the straight Chinese sword, moonblade the Naginata, whip that whip chain shaolin monks use... So I imagine them fighting being very mobile, a lot of stuns and acrobatics, and getting their reach like that. Look for Shaolin Monk using weapons on Youtube, to see what I mean.


So I'd say current archetype is the best choice because much (MUCH) more versatile, and being a kinda strange mix of Open Hand, Drunken Master and Kensei ^^.
But if you know in advance what your party will be, that it will be melee-heavy, and you know you'll wait a long time before playing 11+ levels, then Open Hand is probably the best: no weapon choice complexity, works well, is known by everyone too. :)


(Also, thanks, my pleasure, glad I could help you see the perks of the archetype ;))Thanks again. I think you pinpointed my problem with the archetype. First, it takes a long time to shine, starting level 11. Second, the complexity of multiple weapon choice, vs Open Hand, which is well-known, overall effective in most situations and pretty tested by everyone.

But I wanted to do something different this time, so yeah, yo convinced me to give it a try this and see how it works.

Oh, and BTW, I mentioned a race from this world in my first post, the Arainas (spiderfolk). Turns out I was wrong with the stats, they’re +2 DEX, +1 INT, so they become a viable choice for monk (although that +1 INT is wasted), and more for this sub-class. Why? Because they have 4 arms, which lets them:
-Hold different weapons at once and decide which one to use in every attack, and not having to drop them so you can use the reactions for whip or halberd.
-They get a free second use of Use Object per turn, meaning they can stow one weapon and then take out another as part of the attack action.
Oh, and the icing in the cake is that they also have a ranged Web attack that restrains the enemy on impact, until they break it. Limited to 1+CON mod/per long rest uses, but I’m not gonna complain.

One last thing, while this rulebook is totally compatible with 5e, and in fact can be used as a Campaign Setting for 5e, that adds a ton more options, we can’t do that in this campaign. We’re taking part in an organized play program, called “Pionners of Voldor”, which is kind like Adventurers League for 5e. We have to stick to official options, so no mixing with WotC products.

[Citan]

1. Thanks again. I think you pinpointed my problem with the archetype. First, it takes a long time to shine, starting level 11. Second, the complexity of multiple weapon choice, vs Open Hand, which is well-known, overall effective in most situations and pretty tested by everyone.

But I wanted to do something different this time, so yeah, yo convinced me to give it a try this and see how it works.

2. Oh, and BTW, I mentioned a race from this world in my first post, the Arainas (spiderfolk). Turns out I was wrong with the stats, they’re +2 DEX, +1 INT, so they become a viable choice for monk (although that +1 INT is wasted), and more for this sub-class. Why? Because they have 4 arms, which lets them:
-Hold different weapons at once and decide which one to use in every attack, and not having to drop them so you can use the reactions for whip or halberd.
-They get a free second use of Use Object per turn, meaning they can stow one weapon and then take out another as part of the attack action.
Oh, and the icing in the cake is that they also have a ranged Web attack that restrains the enemy on impact, until they break it. Limited to 1+CON mod/per long rest uses, but I’m not gonna complain.

1. I think you're a bit hard on it saying it doesn't shine until level 11. After all, you get magical melee weapon same as Kensei (which was published after ^^) and part of the Crossbow feat applied to the bow.
What's sure though is that there is a "best order" and a "worthless order" to the options.
And that is imo the main, if not only, but very big problem of how they designed it. That's something that WoTC precisely tried actively to avoid, with overall a success (there are some features in some archetypes that I find too situational, like, to stay in context, Open Hand's lvl 11 ability, but it's not "useless" either).
IMO, the only change to be made for it to be fairly good would be "you get all features at once every step".
I'd actually suggest that you propose this to your DM, it should make no difference for him balance-wise but it will lift a big weight on you.

As for the weapon complexity, well I gave my view on it, I won't re-detail: I just think it would not be, in reality, as present as you fear, but then only real practice will tell. :)

2. If I was not afraid of badmouthing -oh wait, I ain't-, I'd say that they expressed the exact same interrogations as you after having designed the archetype, and instead of modifying it they tailored a custom race just for it. XD
Since you have this race, you really have no reason not to try this archetype imo. ^^

Please come back and give us some real experience feedback on it around lvl 6-7 if you can. ;)

[Spiritchaser]

I’d actually like this monk for the simple, (and admittedly not sufficiently good) reason that I could make a Dex warrior with a polearm.

Yes I’m ignoring all the other things the class does or doesn’t do well. No that’s not ideal, but... I can build a character who fights like Oberyn Martell.

And that’s a win right there.