Shapeshifter Class (Oriental Adventures) Wild Shaping

[schreier]

I asked about the Thousand Faces ability of Shapeshifters here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?553904-Shapeshifter-Prestige-class-(Oriental-Adventures) .... and it was a good discussion where it seems like the class should keep the alter self ability.

I was skimming over the class again, and noticed that - in the original write-up of wild shape it says it's like the druid class ability but does not mention max hd. The fact that it referenced the druid ability would have limited it to class levels in my mind. But then I read the Dragon Magazine "conversion to 3.5" article, and noticed that the Wild Shape ability has been changed. We knew it changed to allow plants and remove the "dire" restriction, but then I noticed the Max HD.

"The shapeshifter can use wild shape one more time per day at 4th and 8th level. as noted on the table. In addition, the shapeshifter gains the ability to take the shape of a Large animal at 3rd level. a Tiny animal at 5th level, and a Huge animal at 9th level. The new form's Hit Dice can't exceed the shapeshifter's character level."

It looks pretty explicit - not sure if that is worth focusing on, but the limit of character level as opposed to class level really helps the power considering that it is only 10 levels long. I am also not sure how the power would work for someone who already had wild shape or got it from another class, since it has it's own "progression."

Thanks
schreier

[Venger]

I asked about the Thousand Faces ability of Shapeshifters here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?553904-Shapeshifter-Prestige-class-(Oriental-Adventures) .... and it was a good discussion where it seems like the class should keep the alter self ability.

I was skimming over the class again, and noticed that - in the original write-up of wild shape it says it's like the druid class ability but does not mention max hd. The fact that it referenced the druid ability would have limited it to class levels in my mind. But then I read the Dragon Magazine "conversion to 3.5" article, and noticed that the Wild Shape ability has been changed. We knew it changed to allow plants and remove the "dire" restriction, but then I noticed the Max HD.

"The shapeshifter can use wild shape one more time per day at 4th and 8th level. as noted on the table. In addition, the shapeshifter gains the ability to take the shape of a Large animal at 3rd level. a Tiny animal at 5th level, and a Huge animal at 9th level. The new form's Hit Dice can't exceed the shapeshifter's character level."

It looks pretty explicit - not sure if that is worth focusing on, but the limit of character level as opposed to class level really helps the power considering that it is only 10 levels long. I am also not sure how the power would work for someone who already had wild shape or got it from another class, since it has it's own "progression."

Thanks
schreier
That is one thing I do like about shapeshifter. I like to use it to enter master of many forms.

By strict raw, you are correct in that shapeshifter wild shape's hd limit wouldn't stack with extant wild shape from druid for example, but since the cap is your character level anyway, it doesn't really matter. for this reason, you're better off expanding what you can do with your wild shape pool via momf.

[schreier]

Great! Not crazy then :)

The reason I have highlighting that fact was that I would assume that you might have multiple "classes" of wild shape. For example, if a wild shape ranger took levels in shapeshifter, he would have high ranger uses per day at his ranger level (limit on HD) and his shapeshifter wild shape uses at his character level. I am not sure how limits on wild shape would work in that case - could a wildshape ranger 10 / shapeshifter 10 assume a huge form with his ranger uses?

I do not see a reason offhand to take shapeshifter with another class that grants wild shape, so it's probably a moot point ...

[Venger]

Great! Not crazy then :)

The reason I have highlighting that fact was that I would assume that you might have multiple "classes" of wild shape. For example, if a wild shape ranger took levels in shapeshifter, he would have high ranger uses per day at his ranger level (limit on HD) and his shapeshifter wild shape uses at his character level. I am not sure how limits on wild shape would work in that case - could a wildshape ranger 10 / shapeshifter 10 assume a huge form with his ranger uses?

I do not see a reason offhand to take shapeshifter with another class that grants wild shape, so it's probably a moot point ...

Yes, strict raw you would track your pools separately. In practice, however, I think it's worth asking your dm if he'll cut you some slack and let you pool your uses to conglomorate your wild shape into one lump, so you can use all your total uses to turn into the best available forms, since you're already hamstringing yourself by being a wildshape ranger shape shifter, you're unlikely to break any games. The lack of text saying "this stacks with extant wild shape" is clearly just wotc being lazy and sloppy.

By the book I do not believe wild shape ranger could do that with his ranger uses.

If you wanted to do wild shape ranger 10/shapeshifter 10, you would still need other shapeshifting magic to qualify somehow, since wild shape itself does not qualify you for the class. in 3.5, while it is now keyed off alternate form, it is not alternate form