Legion season 2 - The Shadow king awaits, Spoliers

[Orcus The Vile]

So, season two is here and goign strong, anyone here watches it? what you guys think?

I loved the first season! It was mys eocnd favorite tv show after Jessica Jones, after watching a second time it's my favorite one.

It had everything! Joseph Maurice Ravel, Nina Simone, Crazy David Lynch type of weirdness, Sureal ideas, x-men stuff, powers, bollywood like dance, movie references and a whole part shoot like a blakc and white movie.

The second season in the other hand... So much filler so much crypt for the sake of being crypt, time travel, I hate time travel, plot points added that don't add anything or go anywhere. David trusting The shadow King which is dumb, I love this series but I'm unsure if it's going to keep up the level of quality the first season had.

I just want coffe guy turned evil millionaire David solo season! Loved that part :D

Also, the clockwork part. Also the Vermilion is awesome.

Too bad Division 3 is kind of boring the first episode where the shwoed all sections build up the organziation to be so awesome but we never see the Tecnology or the Strategy sections.

That whole egg creature was dumb and killing the only black character was terrible.

Also, Lenny is a better more iconic form for the Shadow king. Her style and mannerisms are a lot cooler than the boring generic evil maniacally God complex farouk

[BWR]

Watching it and loving it. I agree with most of your points but entirely disagree with your preference for Lenny over Farouk. Lenny always grated on me while Farouk is just perfect. It's sheer pleasure to watch him on screen.

[Reddish Mage]

I don’t know about how strong the seasons going. It seems to me the show is a bit lost as to where it wants to go and what it wants to become.

The first season the anachronisms, nonsensical elements and general weirdness fit the narrative perspective of being inside a deeply disturbed mind. The story worked together with the presentation to have you constantly questioning what was real and what was delusion.

Now there doesn’t seem to be a point to 90% of the weirdness. All the weirdness does is confuse and complicate an otherwise pretty bland and much slower-paced narrative.

The egg creature is just a case in point. It’s not clear what the purpose of that was, or Lenny for that matter. The last 45-minute long episode spending the entire time on parallel narratives of multiverse versions of David is taking this new approach to an extreme.

I love that they do a lot of experimental and difficult stories, but it’s important to tie them together or your left with a mess. The first season schzoiphrenia was the subject of the narrative. Now it just seems to infect the narrative.

[Shamash]

I was a bit worried but it's ofical boys, we are going to get a season 3!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeoH_fNVAAAsO9i.jpg

[random11]

I loved the first season, not so sure about the second.
It was still better than most other super-hero shows I watch, but being better than CW is a low bar and does not mean it's good.

What I loved about the first season, is the contrast between reality and things that can either be imagination, the effect of his powers or the parasite.
When I saw some things that helped me understand previous events, it was a clever revelation - "so THAT'S what happened!".

Second season is different. Its like they said "oh, you liked the insane things? Plenty more where that came from"
As a result, what was supposed to be the anchor to the reality had a general with a basket on his head, Glados bots with a mustache, a monk, and the entire last three episodes in the desert which were the equivalent of two hours of pink elephants dancing.

It was fun and enjoyable, but not as clever as the first season.

[Reddish Mage]

Second season is different. Its like they said "oh, you liked the insane things? Plenty more where that came from"
As a result, what was supposed to be the anchor to the reality had a general with a basket on his head, Glados bots with a mustache, a monk, and the entire last three episodes in the desert which were the equivalent of two hours of pink elephants dancing.

It was fun and enjoyable, but not as clever as the first season.

I agree they put forth a great variety of incongruent imagery and elements just for the sake of making things seem weirder then they need to be. I also think they took what is in essence a fairly simple plot-line muddied to the point that apparently there's a critic (https://www.vox.com/culture/2018/6/17/17469148/legion-season-2-finale-recap-chapter-19-david-villain) who analyses the plot quite differently than me to where there's a completely different point to the story (warning link contains spoilers).

Instead, I would say this is essentially a standard superhero plot that has been complicated by time travel, moral ambiguity, (both of which actually add something) and superfluous weirdness.

Farouk has been playing future Syd's head the whole time, then in the finale he uses his powers to turn everyone (except Lenny...maybe) into his minions to use against David. The entire time, however, there's a strange thing going on in that Farouk's role as villain is brought into question even as every action confirms he is thoroughly rotten.

The end takes this to the greatest extreme with Farouk uses Melanie to turn Syd against David by showing David brutally torturing Oliver. David responds by erasing Syd's memory then having telepathic-sex with her (read: essentially mind-control + sexual assault). However, regardless of what you think of David for doing so (and its deeply criticized here (https://tv.avclub.com/with-its-shocking-season-finale-legion-makes-a-painful-1826761690)) this is, again, an attempt to get us to question what's really going on in a story that already has a clear villain, Farouk.

Anyway, I think we're going for a traditional superhero season 3, although probably muddied up again by more weirdness.

At best, all the bad things they have David doing is probably no more than yet another novel way to deliver the old comic book moral exhortation that killing is always wrong (even when its someone who kills as casually as Farouk). My guess is that, in season 3 David will come to the conclusion that he won't kill Farouk to prove to everyone (especially himself) he is a good person. David will instead find a novel way to fight back after Farouk sends Division 3 to hunt David down. The sexual assault thing is probably a bit messier and my guess is it will be conveniently forgotten rather than dealt with head on.

It will be awesome if David and Syd somehow find a way to deal with it...but given that Syd is basically a mind-puppet of Farouk now, its hardly any sort of possiblity for a good long while.

[random11]

There is something I didn't understand about the ending (besides the obvious weirdness)

I understand that the team didn't trust David, which is why they had the trial and the glowing globe thingy.

But what about Faruk?
was it mind control that he managed to pull in three seconds by talking to a mouse (???)?
Because the other alternative is that they treat Faruk better than David and Lenny, which doesn't make sense.

On the other hand, most of his mind control was subtle and took time (like how he manipulated Melanie's and future Syd), and the ones that were quick were more like puppets than controlled people.
This time he had only one night, in which he was imprisoned most of the time.

So what happened there?

[Shamash]

There is something I didn't understand about the ending (besides the obvious weirdness)

I understand that the team didn't trust David, which is why they had the trial and the glowing globe thingy.

But what about Faruk?
was it mind control that he managed to pull in three seconds by talking to a mouse (???)?
Because the other alternative is that they treat Faruk better than David and Lenny, which doesn't make sense.

On the other hand, most of his mind control was subtle and took time (like how he manipulated Melanie's and future Syd), and the ones that were quick were more like puppets than controlled people.
This time he had only one night, in which he was imprisoned most of the time.

So what happened there?



I think that's just the show trying to make the tables turned scenario and forcing David to be the bad guy even if that makes no sense what so ever.

[random11]

I think that's just the show trying to make the tables turned scenario and forcing David to be the bad guy even if that makes no sense what so ever.

Maybe, but the same scene can bring the exact same results without Faruk in the room.
It would actually be stronger that way, since they want to punish and/or help David regardless if Faruk is dead, imprisoned or somehow escaped.

If anything, it makes the scene and the outcome weaker.
Regardless if they want David to descend into a villain or struggle to become a hero in the next season, Placing Faruk in the room gives him an excuse to blame someone else.

[S@tanicoaldo]

Can we all agree that the "No one know what's like" opening fight was epic?

[BWR]

Can we all agree that the "No one know what's like" opening fight was epic?

Sorry, we can't. I understand that depicting psychic struggle on screen is a tough job and the pseudo-illithid thrown in there was cool and appropriate (intentionally there or just a happy accident?), but the whole Heavy Metal music video thing just annoyed me.

Back to the trial, I would not be at all suprised if Farouk has a finger in the brains of most/all of the people there. He has already controlled a number of them, even while trapped and 'shut down' was shown to do a little stuff, and was allowed to show up unrestrained at the trial. He may not have made them his mindslaves like he did with Oliver, but I would be very surprised if he wasn't influencing things in some way.

[Reddish Mage]

Sorry, we can't. I understand that depicting psychic struggle on screen is a tough job and the pseudo-illithid thrown in there was cool and appropriate (intentionally there or just a happy accident?), but the whole Heavy Metal music video thing just annoyed me.

Back to the trial, I would not be at all suprised if Farouk has a finger in the brains of most/all of the people there. He has already controlled a number of them, even while trapped and 'shut down' was shown to do a little stuff, and was allowed to show up unrestrained at the trial. He may not have made them his mindslaves like he did with Oliver, but I would be very surprised if he wasn't influencing things in some way.

The mindflayer is clearly intended. People don't just make accidental D&D references.

I can't believe there is a question about what is going on with David's trial and the story, and its all being directed by Farouk. It seems obvious they are not making Farouk a hero, ally or even a neutral bystander. He is still someone who does not hesitate to casually murder and mind-control people, and he is has been working an angle the entire season. He is clearly the villain. That makes David, if not a hero, the protagonist.

The idea that Farouk isn't in control of what's going on is the big subterfuge of the season, and it should should have been dispelled entirely by the finale that has Farouk mind-controlling Melanie to turn Syd against David...shortly followed by everyone else shortly after Farouk's capture.

[Khloros]

My theory is that they retconned David's relashionship Syd making her his delusion, in other words he has unconsciously forced her to fall in love with him using his mind powers.

That what she emnt when she said he "druged" her and had sex with her, it wasn't about their earlier encounter that was only to show David was not above that.

I came to this show expecting a anti-villan or anti-hero but the character of david, his striped socks and style captivated so it's said to see he go as a rapist, if that was clear from the start I would have no trouble with but to retcon it to make him the villan was lazy in my view.

I'm also going to miss Melanie and Oliver Bird, they were my favorite characters inj the first season, really under used on the second and I'm not sure if they will even show up in the 3rd.

Was Melanie's power ever established is she even a mutant or just a human woman who feel in love with one and joined their figth?

[Reddish Mage]

My theory is that they retconned David's relashionship Syd making her his delusion, in other words he has unconsciously forced her to fall in love with him using his mind powers.

That what she emnt when she said he "druged" her and had sex with her, it wasn't about their earlier encounter that was only to show David was not above that.

I came to this show expecting a anti-villan or anti-hero but the character of david, his striped socks and style captivated so it's said to see he go as a rapist, if that was clear from the start I would have no trouble with but to retcon it to make him the villan was lazy in my view.

The notion that they retconned David's relationship with Syd to force her to fall in love initially sounds like the sort of thing Farouk would have said. I don't recall him going so far.

If he did, that would just add to my reading that Farouk is just playing with everyone's mind to turn them against David in what is pretty much a straightforward villain plot. There isn't really anything to prove that David really is being re-envisioned by the show as a villain.

Making David a villain would be anything but lazy. It may be forced, if it is all done at the end, but they've been throwing in a lot of cues to make David seem villainous this season. Those cues are B.S. because they all originate either from Farouk directly, from characters that have an incomplete and incorrect understanding of why David left for a year or is working with Farouk, or are actually being mind controlled by Farouk. The series is playing mind games on the audience by showing David from that point of view even as the substance of what David is doing is perfectly compatible with a flawed tragihero.

What makes David seem villainous is both his behavior with Syd, which can be interpreted as drugging and raping her (as Syd herself accuses him) or less culpably, as him simply lying to her.

Note David's removal of Syd's memories was in response to Farouk's own manipulations of Syd, which seem to involve its own element of mind control. This is not to say David doesn't have some culpability, as the show certainly suggests he does, but the same event would have played out very differently if David's motives were not born out of his own needs and desires.


Was Melanie's power ever established is she even a mutant or just a human woman who feel in love with one and joined their figth?

Just a human psychologist (http://legion.wikia.com/wiki/Melanie_Bird) according to the show's wikia. The scene from the last episode (http://www.vulture.com/2018/06/legion-recap-season-2-episode-11-finale-chapter-19.html) imply they are writing both Melanie and Oliver out, but it takes place three years in the future and season 3 is not necessarily going to have that large of a time jump.

My take is that David, exiled, will have to confront both his own imperfections and the very much mind controlled puppets of the Shadow King that is what his friends and Division 3 will turn into. The whole bit about David destroying the future referenced by both Syd and Melanie doesn't come to pass, its just a part of this illusion. However, the show will keep the ambiguity going by highlighting David imperfections. They may even continue with visitors from the future where David goes full-on villain.

I imagine in the end, that future will turn out to be just a future where the Shadow King wins, and everyone is completely mind-controlled by him to believe that David is a villain.

My question is how we are going to see growth in David...or are we going to see this? David has no growth unless he comes to terms with his own internal flaws. The idea of David as full-on villain seems unlikely, although it would be awesome if their continued use of experimental storytelling lets us see him as such for some episodes of Season 3. They may try making things truly ambiguous, but I'm betting they will give him some way to grow and confront his own flaws...perhaps after they get him in even more trouble.