Warcraft Lore (Medivh)

[ArlEammon]

Has Medivh ever fit the bill as a Dark Lord? Is he not "Lordy" enough?

[Keltest]

He's never really ruled anything. He was an Archmage of considerable power, possible the strongest magic user of his time, but he mostly kept to himself.

[ArlEammon]

He's never really ruled anything. He was an Archmage of considerable power, possible the strongest magic user of his time, but he mostly kept to himself.

I guess our armies just sieging the tower was a game mechanic?

[Keltest]

I guess our armies just sieging the tower was a game mechanic?

Hows that quote go about no matter how powerful the wizard is, a knife between his shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style? Warcraft evocation magic is powerful, but also generally one of the weakest things a properly trained mage can do. This is a guy who ripped open a portal to another dimension so powerful that they blew it up twice and it still wouldn't go away.

[Spore]

I guess our armies just sieging the tower was a game mechanic?

Well I think he could have removed the sieging forces easily (think about End Time Jaina who could destroy Orgrimmar with a tidal wave, and she is not even the most powerful mage) but isn't the core point of corrupted Medivh his own willpower constantly battling the demon within?

If you are comparing him to Sauron, Medivh still had fight in him to struggle against the dark temptation. If you compare him to Voldemort, Medivh never had any aspirations to rule anything, and the mind controlling him is a completely different entity: Sargeras.

[Cikomyr]

He's never really ruled anything. He was an Archmage of considerable power, possible the strongest magic user of his time, but he mostly kept to himself.

Wasnt he imbued with the power of the Guardian of Tirisfal?

He was more than a mere Archmage

[ArlEammon]

Well I think he could have removed the sieging forces easily (think about End Time Jaina who could destroy Orgrimmar with a tidal wave, and she is not even the most powerful mage) but isn't the core point of corrupted Medivh his own willpower constantly battling the demon within?

If you are comparing him to Sauron, Medivh still had fight in him to struggle against the dark temptation. If you compare him to Voldemort, Medivh never had any aspirations to rule anything, and the mind controlling him is a completely different entity: Sargeras.

Doesn't that mean that Medivh is a Dark Lord once Sargeras takes him over?

[The_Jackal]

Has Medivh ever fit the bill as a Dark Lord? Is he not "Lordy" enough?

The closest he's ever come is being deceived by the spirit of Sargeras. He was possessed by Sargeras (https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sargeras) when he originally opened the Dark Portal, permitting the Orcish hordes to enter Azeroth.


Doesn't that mean that Medivh is a Dark Lord once Sargeras takes him over?

You mean before he was born? No. The influence of the Old Gods (and the fallen Titan they corrupted) is more subtle than that. They're really more of the 'drive you mad with whispers and visions' type of evil, not a palms-up demonic posession, Exorcist style.

In effect, they probe for the weaknesses in your will and character, and look for ways to manipulate your waking mind.

[nathandrakee]

Nice post. thank you for sharing

[Spore]

Doesn't that mean that Medivh is a Dark Lord once Sargeras takes him over?

Sargeras is imprisoned along with Illidan. I don't think he is supposed to be able to influence Medivh further. According to Blizz's horrible character writing however I think he could then be corrupted by a further fragment of madness or whatever.

Blizz always WAS saying gameplay > story.

[Keltest]

Sargeras is imprisoned along with Illidan. I don't think he is supposed to be able to influence Medivh further. According to Blizz's horrible character writing however I think he could then be corrupted by a further fragment of madness or whatever.

Blizz always WAS saying gameplay > story.

More importantly, as of that raid Medivh has been dead for around half a century.

[Spore]

More importantly, as of that raid Medivh has been dead for around half a century.

Hum, why is his status marked as unknown in most wikis then? Also you shouldn't put it above Blizzard to rip Medivh straight from another timeline to put him into the story. :D

[Keltest]

Hum, why is his status marked as unknown in most wikis then? Also you shouldn't put it above Blizzard to rip Medivh straight from another timeline to put him into the story. :D

Because he came back as a pseudoghost in WC3 for a little bit, then vanished completely, and that was never really explained.

[Morty]

It would probably help if we knew what "dark lord" is supposed to mean here and why it's important.

[Ionbound]

Because he came back as a pseudoghost in WC3 for a little bit, then vanished completely, and that was never really explained.

He also comes back for a bit as a good guy at the end of Return to Karazhan, though I think that's his final act. I'd be surprised if he came back after that.

[Keltest]

He also comes back for a bit as a good guy at the end of Return to Karazhan, though I think that's his final act. I'd be surprised if he came back after that.

I thought the shades in Karazhan were just echos of him and not actually his ghost?

[Spore]

Yup. They are arcane echoes. Though I am not sure what happens to dead spirits in Azeroth's afterlife.

Are they reborn? Are they consumed by the Void? Do they become one with the Light? The Elements?

[The_Jackal]

Let's stop pretending that Blizzard has a higher grade of writing than your average comic book. At some point, someone will bring back Medivh, probably shortly after they kill off Khadgar for some cheap poignancy. The writers at Blizzard are there to make sense of the content and game mechanics, not the other way around, and, to be honest, I wouldn't have it any other way. I think the decision to fluff the NPC story more at the expense of just maintaining the setting and making it a playground for the players' ambitions marks the first major downturn in the quality of the game.

[Cikomyr]

It would probably help if we knew what "dark lord" is supposed to mean here and why it's important.

I second the motion

[The_Jackal]

I second the motion

I assume this (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilOverlord). I assume it's in the vein of, "Would Medivh ever make a suitable WoW raid boss", to which the answer is, why not?

[Spore]

Let's stop pretending that Blizzard has a higher grade of writing than your average comic book.

Some authors do, but the lead designers don't. Also it is incredibly infuriating that storylines in between expansions get explained in several novels. But they are completely dropped in the games.

[The Glyphstone]

The OP is a fan of pitting 'dark lords' against each other in versus matches, usually Sith or evil wizards or similar figures. So Id assume the goal is aimed in that direction.

[The_Jackal]

The OP is a fan of pitting 'dark lords' against each other in versus matches, usually Sith or evil wizards or similar figures. So Id assume the goal is aimed in that direction.

So like Medivh versus Darth Vader? I mean, they're both dead, so that's likely a draw. Maybe their disembodied spirits can box for 12 rounds.

[Cazero]

Also it is incredibly infuriating that storylines in between expansions get explained in several novels. But they are completely dropped in the games.Heck, they cancelled games that were supposed to explain Thrall and Nova.
#StillSaltyAboutStarcraftGhost

[khadgar567]

Heck, they cancelled games that were supposed to explain Thrall and Nova.
#StillSaltyAboutStarcraftGhost
they actual explain he whole thrall thing in the first books rest of the think is basicly wow canon with him effectively forced to lead horde( which he denies as long as he can with whole horde needs wise and powerful ruler Schick)

[Spore]

they actual explain he whole thrall thing in the first books

My point of important things being explained in a book rather than the medium they are presented in still stands. My high school teachers would have deducted marks for stories not conclusive in itself.

[LansXero]

My point of important things being explained in a book rather than the medium they are presented in still stands. My high school teachers would have deducted marks for stories not conclusive in itself.

Thats now how you sell tie-in material. Your teachers would've flunked marketing.

[ArlEammon]

So how powerful is Medivh, all in all? IF he can frighten Deathwing, he could probably be as powerful or more than Doctor Strange from the MCU.

[The Glyphstone]

How do you define power? Number of spells known? The single biggest spell ever cast? Total magical energy available? Trying to do direct comparisons in the void against a nebulous 'power' scale falters without first establishing a common metric of evaluation.

[ArlEammon]

How do you define power? Number of spells known? The single biggest spell ever cast? Total magical energy available? Trying to do direct comparisons in the void against a nebulous 'power' scale falters without first establishing a common metric of evaluation.

Power is defined in what Medivh can accomplish.

[Keltest]

Power is defined in what Medivh can accomplish.

Its hard to say, because Medivh always had Sargeras as a backup mana bank. His greatest magical feat is pretty indisputably tearing open a gate to another world that just refuses to stay closed no matter how often we hit it with magic lightning. However, Kel'Thuzad also implies after reading his tome that Medivh was significantly stronger than he let on even after the Dark Portal was opened. Conceivably had he not been killed, he would eventually have unlocked the full power of Sargeras (or rather, Sargeras would have taken him over completely and unlocked his own full power), so I guess if youre looking for a theoretical upper limit, it would be that.

[Spore]

Just imagine this. Elves taught humans magic back in/after the troll wars. That means the elves had more time practicing and perfecting it. Now compare the average lifespan of a human and an elf and consider that the Guardian of Tirisfal is likely the most powerful HUMAN mage.

So no, I do not think Medivh is incredibly powerful compared to other mages. He is however a very powerful being. And fel energy is insanely powerful. Just see the several encounters with Kael'thas. First in WC 3, a meek fire mage. Still capable, and commands an entire force of survivors but just a mage. By the time he successfully "bonds" with Illidan, he is max level and has reached about what is possible for a mortal mage that has not major power source (any well of power, a world tree, fel etc.) to drain.

And yes, these powers increase what kind of magic is possible. I feel this then this power is at the writer's whim. As everything really, but the realized power is kind of wonky.

[Keltest]

Just imagine this. Elves taught humans magic back in/after the troll wars. That means the elves had more time practicing and perfecting it. Now compare the average lifespan of a human and an elf and consider that the Guardian of Tirisfal is likely the most powerful HUMAN mage.

So no, I do not think Medivh is incredibly powerful compared to other mages. He is however a very powerful being. And fel energy is insanely powerful. Just see the several encounters with Kael'thas. First in WC 3, a meek fire mage. Still capable, and commands an entire force of survivors but just a mage. By the time he successfully "bonds" with Illidan, he is max level and has reached about what is possible for a mortal mage that has not major power source (any well of power, a world tree, fel etc.) to drain.

And yes, these powers increase what kind of magic is possible. I feel this then this power is at the writer's whim. As everything really, but the realized power is kind of wonky.

For the record, just because the elves did it first does not mean they do it better. The humans built an entire city-state devoted to magic and magical research, which included one elf wizard in its leadership. The humans, by and large, are equal or better wizards than the elves are.