How would you? 3.5

[dantiesilva]

Hello everyone and thank you for taking the time to look at this thread. I was curious (after buying a new box of minis) how would one make a Goblin Hucker in 3.5? Would they use a typical Hill giant with a catapult on its back? And if so how would you determine damage, reload speed, and other such things of importance? I ask because I want to bring something interesting to my next game for my players and think this would fit the cake perfectly as they would be seeing spiked balls of death come flying at them, only for those balls to uncurl themselves once they hit to reveal a nasty goblin inside. Thank you for any and all suggestions.

[PhantasyPen]

The Hulking Hurler prestige class from Complete Warrior lets a Large or bigger creature use anything it can carry as a light load as a throwing weapon. there's also a feat in Races of Stone I believe that allows a creature to throw an ally as an attack. I used to have an actual character built around this, I wonder if I still have the sheet...

[Obscuraphile]

If you're looking to replicate the encounter out of Storm King's Thunder it's going to have to be some type of homebrew. In the book its actually ogres not hill giants that wear the goblin huckers. To translate it into 3.5 I would just say that they are wearing light catapults which use goblins for ammunition. Their damage of 4d6 is dealt both to the target and to the goblin on a hit, and just to the goblin on a miss.

[frogglesmash]

If you're looking to replicate the encounter out of Storm King's Thunder it's going to have to be some type of homebrew. In the book its actually ogres not hill giants that wear the goblin huckers. To translate it into 3.5 I would just say that they are wearing light catapults which use goblins for ammunition. Their damage of 4d6 is dealt both to the target and to the goblin on a hit, and just to the goblin on a miss.

Assuming you intend for the goblins to survive the launch, your going to have lower the damage they take from the impact as they only have 5 HP on average.

[Obscuraphile]

Assuming you intend for the goblins to survive the launch, your going to have lower the damage they take from the impact as they only have 5 HP on average.

Nah, give them max HP at 1st level and have them take the Toughness feat instead of Alertness. They might survive 25% of the time, but they're not really meant to in the first place

[Uncle Pine]

Heroes of Battle p64 mentions in the sidebar that "Troops have been known to load their catapults with anything available, including loose rubbles, chains, discarded weapons, odds and ends of armor, dead mounts, the severed heads of fallen enemy soldiers, and even live captives", but to my knowledge doesn't actually provide rules about live ammunitions in Chapter 4. I'd suggest to combine the rules for operating siege weapons there with those for improvised weapons in CW, noting that slashing improvised weapons deal double damage so every goblin should be wearing armor razors (Underdark p65, basically slashing armor spikes).

With that in mind, considering the average goblin weighs 40-45 pounds, you can have a crew of siege engineers operating the siege weapon of choice and shoot goblin projectiles which could deal 2d6 damage on hit (4d6 if wearing armor razors), or 3d6 damage (6d6 if wearing armor razors) if the fully equipped goblin ends up weighing 51 pounds or more, with a -4 to-hit penalty because goblins aren't exactly balanced ammunitions. Upon landing, thrown goblins could take 2d6 or 3d6 points of damage depending on their weight (I personally wouldn't double that if they wear armor razors, as imo that reflects their deadliness on the outside and such armors would likely be extra padded on the inside to avoid injuries).

[dantiesilva]

The Hulking Hurler prestige class from Complete Warrior lets a Large or bigger creature use anything it can carry as a light load as a throwing weapon. there's also a feat in Races of Stone I believe that allows a creature to throw an ally as an attack. I used to have an actual character built around this, I wonder if I still have the sheet...

Fling alley is the feat, and you would need Rock hurling feat as well to use it. So that is 5 feats minimum for the build (change weapon focus to a thrown weapon and toughness into rock hurling leaves you with three feats needed. 2 levels of fighter would get the required feats) so at the low end we are looking at CR 6-8 depending on if you are taking all the hulking hurler levels or not. It is definitely interesting I will say that, and I will take it into consideration. However the miniature in question has a catapult on its back and would like to use that if possible which would make many of the interesting and unique abilities you could use with your suggestion useless as the orge would not be throwing the enemy sadly.


If you're looking to replicate the encounter out of Storm King's Thunder it's going to have to be some type of homebrew. In the book its actually ogres not hill giants that wear the goblin huckers. To translate it into 3.5 I would just say that they are wearing light catapults which use goblins for ammunition. Their damage of 4d6 is dealt both to the target and to the goblin on a hit, and just to the goblin on a miss.

I actually do not own a single 5th edition book, as stated I was buying minis and my players have been fighting goblins, orcs, and such and when I saw this miniature upon unboxing I knew I had to throw it into my game somehow. Fair enough on the rest, nice simple and clean can not go wrong with that. Thank you for the suggestion.


Assuming you intend for the goblins to survive the launch, your going to have lower the damage they take from the impact as they only have 5 HP on average.

Or give them a few levels/ HD


Heroes of Battle p64 mentions in the sidebar that "Troops have been known to load their catapults with anything available, including loose rubbles, chains, discarded weapons, odds and ends of armor, dead mounts, the severed heads of fallen enemy soldiers, and even live captives", but to my knowledge doesn't actually provide rules about live ammunitions in Chapter 4. I'd suggest to combine the rules for operating siege weapons there with those for improvised weapons in CW, noting that slashing improvised weapons deal double damage so every goblin should be wearing armor razors (Underdark p65, basically slashing armor spikes).

With that in mind, considering the average goblin weighs 40-45 pounds, you can have a crew of siege engineers operating the siege weapon of choice and shoot goblin projectiles which could deal 2d6 damage on hit (4d6 if wearing armor razors), or 3d6 damage (6d6 if wearing armor razors) if the fully equipped goblin ends up weighing 51 pounds or more, with a -4 to-hit penalty because goblins aren't exactly balanced ammunitions. Upon landing, thrown goblins could take 2d6 or 3d6 points of damage depending on their weight (I personally wouldn't double that if they wear armor razors, as imo that reflects their deadliness on the outside and such armors would likely be extra padded on the inside to avoid injuries).

So perhaps give each goblin a single layer of barbarian with whirling frenzy so they are little balls of death that try to rip anything that doesn't die on impact with their armor. I like it, brutal, and the scare tactic alone would have a lot of people fleeing. After all that ball of metal that just hit them unrolling into a goblin that is trying to hug them to death, who would want to fight that kind of suicidal creature.

Thank you all for your suggestions thus far.

At the moment thinking
1 Orge with a light catpult
1 goblin (say artificer?) operating the catapult on the orge's back.
2 Level 2 goblins (Whirling Frenzy barbarian 1/tiger claw? Warblade 1?)
2 Level 3 Hobgoblin's (acting as guards for the orge? Being Crusaders?)

[Darrin]

Assuming you intend for the goblins to survive the launch, your going to have lower the damage they take from the impact as they only have 5 HP on average.

Oddly enough, there are no rules in D&D 3E to apply damage to projectiles.


Fling alley is the feat, and you would need Rock hurling feat as well to use it.


I don't recommend using either Fling Ally or Fling Enemy, as they require standard actions. For my King of Pong (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?107248-3-5-quot-King-of-Pong-quot-Hulking-Hurler-Dungeon-Crasher-War-Mind-Mashup) build, I just used Improved Grab, and once you establish a hold, you can throw anything you can lift as part of a full attack routine.

Best way to get large in 3.0 without dealing with Level Adjustment is probably Anthropomorphic Whale, Anthropomorphic Constrictor Snake (Savage Species), or maybe Ambush Drake (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20060728a).

[dantiesilva]

This (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1593688) is my rough idea for the suicidal catapult goblins. The basic idea is to get them behind the party disguised as metal spiked balls that were launched at them, and then when all three land and the party moves to attack the orge they pop out of their protective metal shells and chase after the party, no doubt attacking the caster first from behind.

Swarmfighting allows them to get a full +3 bonus to their attack rolls if they are all in the same square, while Island of blades would give them an extra +2 Flanking bonus to attack rolls, making them hit most of the time. And when the big melee character sees the squishy being attacked he will do a 180 and charge which Counter charge is for. Whirling Frenzy will allow the three goblins to hit no doubt the entire party which will surround them given they are all in 1 square meaning a total of 9 attacks a round at a total of +11 to hit. Given whirling Frenzy their AC will also be up to 21 which will make it a little bit difficult for the party to hit them, but not impossible given the rangers favored enemy is goblins (and being a dwarf he has more bonuses).