Help with Identify Houserule

[ShadowImmor]

I would like some help with the Identify Spell.

First point, I will not be using the ability to identify a magical item on a short rest. (I MAY allow them to figure out IF something is magical on a short rest, but not the nature of the enchantment)

I find it's a little frustrating that a spell which is easily accessible takes all the mystery out of magic weapons immediately. I would like there to be a bit more concern over whether an item is cursed or not and a bit of fear so the players cannot just trust everything.

However before I go to my players about a house rule, I would like to have some idea of what the house rule should look like. So far I've got the idea that by using the identify spell they can tell that it is magical, and what schools of magic are on it, maybe a bit more specific, so a +1 Flametongue weapon would be a weapon that has evocation magic imbued in it, and feels hot to the touch.

I also want this to open up more options for more description to the players, and allow them to make assumptions, which can be either right or wrong, giving more opportunities for roleplay, side quests and interesting things to happen.

Any other thoughts on how I can make this work?

And yes, I'm aware I'm houseruling, yes I'm aware it massively reduces the benefit of identify, if you're just going to tell me not do to the houserule, I understand it changes how the game works and the implications.

[Unoriginal]

You're better off removing the spell entirely and say the PCs have to figure it out by using the item, IMO, if that's your goal.

[LuccMa]

I've struggled with that, too. I tried playing without Identify but then you have to keep track of all the things their not yet fully "explored" items do etc.

What i do in my games is that Identify gives the base-information about items. What do they do, what modifiers do they have, etc. - but i also let them make an ability check and if an Item is cursed it has a DC - if they dont match it, they dont know about the curse.

I also work a lot with magic items that improve over time, get new abilities and such. Identify doesnt show what the item can become. Also depending on the ability check they get some information about the items histroy; sometimes usable as a nice plot hook.

I am quite happy with that and i think its a good middle ground to cover the rules aspect of magical items but still keep mystery and intrigue about them.

[Contrast]

So far I've got the idea that by using the identify spell they can tell that it is magical, and what schools of magic are on it, maybe a bit more specific, so a +1 Flametongue weapon would be a weapon that has evocation magic imbued in it, and feels hot to the touch.


And yes, I'm aware I'm houseruling, yes I'm aware it massively reduces the benefit of identify

In fairness, Identify is a pretty useless spell in a standard game given the identify on short rest mechanic. That said, I still don't see any reason why a player would cast identify - you're basically just making it do what Detect Magic already does.

Consider just deleting Identify entirely and expand the remit of the Legend Lore spell to include identifying non-legendary magic items?

Alternatively you could make using identify grant you an arcana check, with upcasting giving you bonuses to the check. You may want to consider nixing the ritual tag if you do go down this route.

[ShadowImmor]

Alternatively you could make using identify grant you an arcana check, with upcasting giving you bonuses to the check. You may want to consider nixing the ritual tag if you do go down this route.

That I like more, but then how do I scale it, failure = More Intensive Detect Magic, and scale it up with different DCs for more info, with a top level that is Identify working as it does in the book?

[DarkKnightJin]

I'm not entirely sure that Identify tells if an item is cursed or not.

If you are going to nix the 'spend a short rest, learn what the item does' thing, just let Identify do what it does. Maybe alter it so it can only be cast as a ritual.

This way they're not going to use it on everything, but also doesn't make it pointless for the Bard or Wizard to have.
If you don't have a Bard, Wizard, or Knowledge/Forge Domain Cleric in the party.. they won't have access to the spell at all.

[JackPhoenix]

How about making the material component of Identify consumable, as it was before, and/or rarer, so it isn't necessarily the first choice to go for?

[Gilrad]

I like the idea of Identify allowing an arcana check, with one additional bit:

Have the check be a hidden check by the DM, with the assumption that the character has high confidence in whatever the outcome is (so why would he re-cast multiple times on the item when he already knows everything it does?).

E.g. you're certain the sword is just a +1 sword for half the adventure, then you score a critical against an ogre and the fine pink mist it turns into keys you in to new information the arcana roll missed when you cast identify.

[Kane0]

- Short resting doesn't reveal anything
- Given a minute to examine an item, a successful Arcana check can determine if an item is magical (DM determines DC)
- Identify reveals the properties of magic items of Common rarity, and can be upcast to identify rarer items to a maximum of Legendary rarity using a 5th level Slot

How does that sound?

[Malifice]

Fighter: Wizard; what does the weapon do?
Wizard: Its... a plus one sword.
Fighter: 'Plus one' to what exactly?
Wizard:

https://i.imgflip.com/2ar0wv.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/2ar0wv)

[Obscuraphile]

There are already some good ideas about how to do this so I'll just throw an anecdote on the pile:

When I made items harder to figure out in my games players would take various combinations of found weapons or armor and attack each other to figure out bonuses. :smallannoyed: You have been warned.

[Malifice]

When I made items harder to figure out in my games players would take various combinations of found weapons or armor and attack each other to figure out bonuses. :smallannoyed: You have been warned.

You cant be serious.

Please tell me you said No, or simply had one of those swings connect solidly, killing the fighter instantly if they insisted.

Man, you have bigger problems at your table.

[ATHATH]

You cant be serious.

Please tell me you said No, or simply had one of those swings connect solidly, killing the fighter instantly if they insisted.

Man, you have bigger problems at your table.
Uh... That actually kind of makes sense. They're sparring with each other to get a feel for the weapons and armor (and to check to see if either of the above produce any special effects or have any abilities when used in combat).

Killing the fighter instantly is going waaaaaaaaaaaaay too far, IMO. Even if you don't agree with my argument/position above, OOC problems should be resolved OOC, not through/by the IC means of instantly killing someone's character (whom they are probably quite invested in).

[Malifice]

Uh... Even if you don't agree with my argument/position above, OOC problems should be resolved OOC, not through/by the IC means of instantly killing someone's character (whom they are probably quite invested in).

Live by the sword die by the sword. Metagame me and I'll metagame back. Also the No was OOC.

There is no way to tell the difference between a plus one sword or a plus two sword by simply swinging it and comparing hit frequency. Hits in dnd are often parried (causing a loss of hit points) dodged (causing a loss of hit points) cause minor injuries (causing a loss of hit points) or land solidly (reducing hit points to zero).

PCs have no way of knowing if one sword is 5 more accurate than another sword or not, and surely attempting to find out how deadly a sword is by attempting to stab a friend repeatedly with it is metagaming (or just stupid) in the extreme.

I could get with an experienced fighter practicing with it and noting its superior quality over his current weapon though.

But players comparing attack rolls to other players AC in an effort to figure out its bonus to hit? Yeah nah.

[Obscuraphile]

You cant be serious.

Please tell me you said No, or simply had one of those swings connect solidly, killing the fighter instantly if they insisted.

Man, you have bigger problems at your table.

Completely serious.

No I didn't kill them for their idiocy.


Uh... That actually kind of makes sense. They're sparring with each other to get a feel for the weapons and armor (and to check to see if either of the above produce any special effects or have any abilities when used in combat).

Killing the fighter instantly is going waaaaaaaaaaaaay too far, IMO. Even if you don't agree with my argument/position above, OOC problems should be resolved OOC, not through/by the IC means of instantly killing someone's character (whom they are probably quite invested in).

See that would have been a smart way to frame it, but my players just said "Okay you wear this new bit of chainmail and hold still, I'll take this new battle axe and swing at you. We will do this until we have either collected enough data or the cleric has run out of cure spells.

We have a much more relaxed table than most people I would assume, so it wasn't really a big issue OOC. Significant amounts of alcohol were involved both IC and OOC. Basically we were roleplaying a hangout session back at the tavern between two of the meatheads while the rogue fenced some of the goods from the latest crawl. It got silly.

Also I have a tendency to describe magical effects as... well magical. A +1 sword seems to twist in a fighter's hand all by itself to slip between an opponent's armored plates when it should have skated off harmlessly. Or +1 plate cushions what should have by all accounts been a crushing blow. Just because these are relatively minor effects in the larger context of D&D doesn't mean they don't defy the laws of physics

[Kurt Kurageous]

Fighter: Wizard; what does the weapon do?
Wizard: Its... a plus one sword.
Fighter: 'Plus one' to what exactly?
Wizard:

https://i.imgflip.com/2ar0wv.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/2ar0wv)

A problem as old as D&D
http://dungeonsmaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/bigby.jpg

[Kurt Kurageous]

Look, you can play head games about magic items w. your players, but...what's the point? If you don't want them to have something, don't let them have it. If you want them to, make it happen.

Rules say long rest is as good as identify. Arcana checks would allow learning what can be known without using identify. Maybe that's what happens on a short rest?

Purely cursed items suck in game. They are a quest nobody wants. Its like herpes, only curable. You can't do much else once you have it. Make sure you know how hard it will be for a party to remove it, and make sure they get the help they need. Any sentient being would destroy it or make sure noone else finds it once they are rid of it, or take it to their grave if they cannot.

[kardar233]

I think cursed items are better when you know what the price will be. In our games we’ve had a number of cursed items, many of which we debated about using or actually used. We got a cursed bardiche from an Icon of Baphomet, which deals 4d10 bonus damage but each time you deal damage you have to roll d% and if you roll over 50 you take half the damage you dealt; our Hexblade used this to finish off a Hill Giant we were fighting at the cost of most of his health. One of our Rogues is currently using a bow that gives +2 to hit and always grants Sneak Attack, but gives Sunlight Sensitivity and will sometime send them on a murderous rampage. One item that we really considered using in our last game was a suit of +2 plate that gave resistance to all bludgeoning, piercing and slashing, but caused all Humanoids to become hostile on sight.

[Mellack]

I suggest taking a long look at if you really want to go with the idea of them not being able to identify. Do you want to spend an hour with each new magic item playing 20 questions as they try to work out what power it has? Or are you going to try to remember that Joe's PC has an extra +1 to hit every time he makes a swing? To my mind it is adding a lot more annoyance than enjoyment to the game to do that, but you have to decide for yourself.