[D&D] How could a commoner become an outsider?

[FenAseph]

Just what the title says. Is there a process or processes through which a commoner can be turned into an outsider? Excluding divine intervention or any intervention of an external entity.

[Frozen_Feet]

Yes: death. Through dying and going to an afterlife in the Outer Planes, a devout commoner could become a petitioner, and with time turn into some higher ranking Outsider. The equivalent for lower planes would be becoming a larva or manes.

Or, more edition-dependently, the commoner could gain experience and, say, aim for 20 levels of Monk. :smalltongue: Or, if Book of Erotic Fantasy is at play, gather funds for a Blessed Seed spells to make their kids into half-celestials. At least in d20 iteration of the game, there are a dozen different ways scattered across multiple splats.

[WindStruck]

Maybe you have an outsider (for example a sylph on the plain of air) doing whatever, that just happens to be a commoner? :smallconfused:

[Nifft]

Just what the title says. Is there a process or processes through which a commoner can be turned into an outsider? Excluding divine intervention or any intervention of an external entity.

Unholy Scion (Heroes of Horror) can turn a humanoid into an Outsider, but it requires unusually early access.

Savage Species had some kind of rituals which changed a creature's type.

[WindStruck]

Commoner is also the name of the NPC class which... anything could have a class in.

[FenAseph]

By "commoner" I mean a regular, normal human being. @Frozen_Feet: death is not an option. I want him to be alive before and alive after but transformed.
A process or ritual would be acceptable for what I want - turning a regular human into an outsider.

[WindStruck]

Could I just ask why you are trying to do this? :smallconfused:

[NRSASD]

Could I just ask why you are trying to do this? :smallconfused:

In the words of our late president JFK: "We choose to go to the Moon turn this commoner into an outsider, not because it is easy, but because it is hard."

[Frozen_Feet]

By "commoner" I mean a regular, normal human being. @Frozen_Feet: death is not an option. I want him to be alive before and alive after but transformed.
A process or ritual would be acceptable for what I want - turning a regular human into an outsider.

Okay, so retreat into a monastery, gain experience untill top level Monk. :smalltongue:

Slightly less tongue-in-cheek, there are two main ways to achieve this while alive:

1) gain enough experience points to take levels in appropriate class.

2) raise enough funds to get another entity to cast appropriate spells to cause the transformation. Said entity could either be a magic item or a spellcaster.

Examples of spells which might qualify:

Polymorph any object, cast twice in succession or otherwise made permanent.
Wish, Miracle or Alter Reality for applying effects of Blessed seed (etc.) retroactively.
Planar Binding (etc.) to call a suitable Outsider, then Magic Jar or True Mindswitch to place the human's mind.

All the obvious ways are pretty expensive and/or high level. You can't achieve them as a normal human without outside help.

[The Glyphstone]

Retrain their 1st-level feat into Otherworldly, which makes them a native Outsider.

[M Placeholder]

If you are a Psion, you can use the power Mind Switch on an outsider, which lasts until it is negated.

[flappeercraft]

The Nar Fiendbond spell from LEoF gives the target the Half-Fiend template which grants the outsider type. There is also the Otherworldly feat which IIRC is from PGtF although it can only be taken at level one, psychic reformation might work for that.

[FenAseph]

Thanks to all for suggestions, I'll try some of them.

[Uncle Pine]

Otherworldly feat (Player's Guide to Faerun).

Also aren't ghosts from Ghostwalk technically outsiders? If so, the poor man can simply die.

[Bronk]

There are a lot of spells that can grant the outsider type temporarily, and a spell like Wish could do it permanently.

A random human commoner could be the victim of a evil wizard.

They could also be the accidental recipient of a wish. Maybe they angered a genie or pleased a solar? Stumbled upon a ring of three wishes and didn't know what it was?

They could also be one of a number of prestige classes that transform you into an outsider.

They could also be super good and become a saint, or be super bad, die, and come back as a hellbred.

[Mystral]

Just what the title says. Is there a process or processes through which a commoner can be turned into an outsider? Excluding divine intervention or any intervention of an external entity.

Commoner 1 / Monk 20

[mabriss lethe]

Seconding Ghostwalk-Ghost template: Transform into an incorporeal outsider, (assuming it didn't get changed in errata, it's been a while.) Sure, you're technically dead, but you still have a con score.

[BowStreetRunner]

Apotheosis into an outsider can be achieved through multi-classing into Monk (PHB) or Aspirant (Dragon #311), both of which acquire Outsider status at level 20.

It can also be achieved through numerous Prestige Classes.


Acolyte of the Skin (Tome and Blood)
Alienist (Tome and Blood)
Artist’s Vengeance (Dragon #307)
Contemplative (Complete Divine)
Divine Crusader (Complete Divine)
Exemplar (Complete Adventurer)
Fatespinner (Tome and Blood) but not the updated version in Complete Arcane.
Follower of the Skyserpent (Dragon #307)
Incandescent Champion (Magic of Incarnum)
Initiate of Pistis Sophia (Book of Exalted Deeds)
Knight of the Sacred Seal (Tome of Magic)
Tiger Mask (Dragon #300)
Troubador of Stars (Book of Exalted Deeds)
Yuan-Ti Cultist (Savage Species)

[Psyren]

As others have said, Commoner is a class, not a race. You can have outsider commoners easily, just like you can have fey wizards etc.


Commoner 1 / Monk 20

There are probably prestige classes that get Perfect Self at their capstone as well.

[ShurikVch]

Well, demon lord Dwiergus, the Chrysalis Prince of Fleshforges is tend to capture people and turn them into Half-Fiend (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/halfFiend.htm)ish minions. Even if our Commoner wasn't in the Abyss from the start, spontaneous planar portals is a thing :smallwink:

For the more likely scenario, the Commoner could acquire somewhere a dose of Green Rapture, then fail all his saves and transform into Kaorti

Also, the venom of Molydeus turning living creatures into Manes (but, considering the number of hp for your typical Commoner, he's more likely will just die from hp damage)

[Uncle Pine]

How could I forget Searing Seed? That spell works too.

[Arcanist]

Retrain their 1st-level feat into Otherworldly, which makes them a native Outsider.


Otherworldly feat (Player's Guide to Faerun).


By "commoner" I mean a regular, normal human being.

Unfortunately they want a out of the PHB human for this so Otherworldly doesn't actually work in this specific case:


Prerequisites: Deep Imaskari (Underdark [Deep Imaskar]), elf (EVermeet, Sildëyuir), or spirit folk (Ashane).

Unless there is some way to ignore these prerequisites that I am forgetting, Otherworldly doesn't seem like the answer here. To be perfectly frank, the best solution here just seems to start out with a creature that is already an Outsider and give them a level in Commoner. If this is acceptable look at the Neraphim and the Buomman from Planar Handbook. Both are LA 0 races that can easily just be Outsiders off the bat with no questions asked. If being Native is that much of an issue, just do the ritual of association to get it and be done with it.

[Rebel7284]

Unfortunately they want a out of the PHB human for this so Otherworldly doesn't actually work in this specific case:



Unless there is some way to ignore these prerequisites that I am forgetting, Otherworldly doesn't seem like the answer here. To be perfectly frank, the best solution here just seems to start out with a creature that is already an Outsider and give them a level in Commoner. If this is acceptable look at the Neraphim and the Buomman from Planar Handbook. Both are LA 0 races that can easily just be Outsiders off the bat with no questions asked. If being Native is that much of an issue, just do the ritual of association to get it and be done with it.

Deep Imaskari is a human subrace.

[Feantar]

If you want a sort of RAW way, maybe this will do. Warning, I am really tired so take the following with a grain of salt.

Farmer Bob works hard and manages to save 370 gp.

Assuming a take 10 profession check with a modifer of 7(4 ranks + 3 skill focus) for a total check of 17, owning a place to live (a windowless thatched hat) and living on two loaves of bread a day, their weekly living expenses are 2.8 sp. He earns 8.5 gp per week, for a net gain of 8.22. Assuming a 50% taxation, because medieval lords are evil and cruel and all that jazz, he gains 4.11 gp per week. Thus, he can gather 370 gp in ~= 91 weeks, which is the equivalent of 1.74 years.
He then casts the Incantation, Hrothgar's Journey. How? He hires a cleric for 1 casting of Endure Elements(to ignore the backlash of Hrothgar's Journey) and 6 castings of Guidance of the Avatar, to hit the 6 DC 20 checks (hence the expenses). 60 minutes later he finds himself in Ysgard. Here, he asks around for the direction to the river Oceanus. If attacked, he fights to the best of his ability - he dies but since he died honorably, Ysgard always ressurects him next morning. At some point he reaches the river, where he looks for a boat and works long enough to pay for passage towards Elysium. Let us assume another year.

He reaches Elysium and stays for a week, then intentionally fails his save and becomes a petitioner. Thus, he is alive and an outsider, and he did not necessarily have to die.

All this, in case you did not want him to be a native outsider. Otherwise, make him Deep Imaskari and get otherworldly.

[Mystral]

As others have said, Commoner is a class, not a race. You can have outsider commoners easily, just like you can have fey wizards etc.

I think that the racial hit dice that non-humanoids advance in can be seen as that species version of the commoner class, so actually, every creature with additional racial hit dice is a commoner, in that they advanced in what makes their race typical without learning anything new and exciting.

[Arcanist]

Deep Imaskari is a human subrace.

I understand that, but according to the feat you have to be a Deep Imaskari (the actual race from Underdark, which is cross referenced in the 3.5 edition of Player's Guide to Faerun) and have selected your region as Underdark (Deep Imaskar). If you were to be a Human and select the same region, you wouldn't qualify for Otherworldly because you're not a Deep Imaskari, but you are from Deep Imaskar.

So how do you accomplish this without being a Deep Imaskari?

[Uncle Pine]

Unfortunately they want a out of the PHB human for this so Otherworldly doesn't actually work in this specific case:



Unless there is some way to ignore these prerequisites that I am forgetting, Otherworldly doesn't seem like the answer here. To be perfectly frank, the best solution here just seems to start out with a creature that is already an Outsider and give them a level in Commoner. If this is acceptable look at the Neraphim and the Buomman from Planar Handbook. Both are LA 0 races that can easily just be Outsiders off the bat with no questions asked. If being Native is that much of an issue, just do the ritual of association to get it and be done with it.


Deep Imaskari is a human subrace.

In addition, 2 ranks in Knowledge (that area) will lift those prerequisites from the feat. Unless they've been already lifted from, you know, those places not being in the setting you play in.


EDIT:
I understand that, but according to the feat you have to be a Deep Imaskari (the actual race from Underdark, which is cross referenced in the 3.5 edition of Player's Guide to Faerun) and have selected your region as Underdark (Deep Imaskar). If you were to be a Human and select the same region, you wouldn't qualify for Otherworldly because you're not a Deep Imaskari, but you are from Deep Imaskar.

So how do you accomplish this without being a Deep Imaskari?
I believe Rebel7284 was suggesting being a Deep Imaskari.

[Arcanist]

In addition, 2 ranks in Knowledge (that area) will lift those prerequisites from the feat.Unless they've been already lifted from, you know, those places not being in the setting you play in.

Just checked the Regional feat section in Underdark and that appears to work out rather interestingly. Commoner unfortunately lacks Knowledge (local) as a class skill, however just taking a feat like City Slicker from Races of Destiny (find a better one if you can that gives you Knowledge (local)) and then apply two ranks to Knowledge (local; Deep Imaskar) and take Otherworldly (completely ignoring the order of operations for Character creation all the while but, not gonna lie, I don't really cares about that).


I believe Rebel7284 was suggesting being a Deep Imaskari.

I didn't realize that was what he meant. Thanks for clearing that up, but I do believe the OP specifically requested this be a regular human.

[Ashtagon]

:roach: Nothing stops an outsider from taking a level of commoner.

[Uncle Pine]

Just checked the Regional feat section in Underdark and that appears to work out rather interestingly. Commoner unfortunately lacks Knowledge (local) as a class skill, however just taking a feat like City Slicker from Races of Destiny (find a better one if you can that gives you Knowledge (local)) and then apply two ranks to Knowledge (local; Deep Imaskar) and take Otherworldly (completely ignoring the order of operations for Character creation all the while but, not gonna lie, I don't really cares about that).



I didn't realize that was what he meant. Thanks for clearing that up, but I do believe the OP specifically requested this be a regular human.
You can get 2 ranks in a cross-class skill at 1st level without extra feats:

If you buy a class skill, your character gets 1 rank (equal to a +1 bonus on checks with that skill) for each skill point. If you buy other classes’ skills (cross-class skills), you get ½ rank per skill point.

Your maximum rank in a class skill is your character level + 3.

Your maximum rank in a cross-class skill is one-half of this number (do not round up or down).
(1+3)/2 = 2. This means a regular human commoner can invest 4 skill ranks (of which he has 12) in Knowledge (local; Deep Imaskar) if he wants.

[Knaight]

The snarky answer is to use a different definition of outsider - at which point exile does that all on its own.

The slightly less snarky answer involves Polymorph any Object. The commoner needs to get the ability to cast that at least once, but UMD can do this. Profession skill to Candle of Invocation, Candle of Invocation to giant piles of money, giant piles of money to acquire psionic tools (I'm forgetting the technical terms) to get massive skill bonuses to apply to UMD, giant piles of money to get a scroll of PaO, and cast it from the scroll.

Then we just need to hit duration factor 9. This is really easy - going from animal to animal is 5, and given the rest of the list this applies to all fauna. Same size hits 7. Same or lower intelligence hits 9, and there are options there (more if you use stupid piles of money to also get +5 intrinsic to int).

Looking back, while death was mostly taken off the table alive before and alive after does allow for dead during. This means reincarnate is on the table, which can at least get an elf, allowing for retraining to Otherworldly.

[Arcanist]

[snip]

I've been playing with a house rule that says cross class skills are capped at character level for so long that I had forgotten that it was equal to half of your maximum instead :smallsigh:

[WhamBamSam]

Unfortunately they want a out of the PHB human for this so Otherworldly doesn't actually work in this specific case:



Unless there is some way to ignore these prerequisites that I am forgetting, Otherworldly doesn't seem like the answer here. To be perfectly frank, the best solution here just seems to start out with a creature that is already an Outsider and give them a level in Commoner. If this is acceptable look at the Neraphim and the Buomman from Planar Handbook. Both are LA 0 races that can easily just be Outsiders off the bat with no questions asked. If being Native is that much of an issue, just do the ritual of association to get it and be done with it.Champions of Valor pg. 22 gives the option of Celestial-Attended Birth, which makes it possible for creatures of any regional background to qualify for Otherworldly.

[Rebel7284]

Champions of Valor pg. 22 gives the option of Celestial-Attended Birth, which makes it possible for creatures of any regional background to qualify for Otherworldly.

And we have a winner!

[Uncle Pine]

Champions of Valor pg. 22 gives the option of Celestial-Attended Birth, which makes it possible for creatures of any regional background to qualify for Otherworldly.

Woah, that's really cool! I had never noticed that section before, thanks. :smallsmile:

[WhamBamSam]

Woah, that's really cool! I had never noticed that section before, thanks. :smallsmile:You're welcome. It's a favorite little nugget of mine, though the Celestial fluff does often get a little awkward (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21807286&postcount=36) in the sorts of builds I want to use if for (for some reason most of the ways of getting Alter Self on largely mundane builds require evil alignment).