Elemental savant; getting around immunities?

[Devinous]

I've dug theough the forum but didn't see much about this rather underwheliming prestige class. I know some blasting wizards and sorcerers like it while others don't for its lack of versatility and spell progression loss. But i like the flavor of the class and think bbn i might have found a way around that lack of versatility for things with elemental immunities. But i wanted others opinions on how it would work.

To get into the Elemental Savant prestige class, you need the energy substitution feat which you can use to cause a spell that deal fire,cold,lightning or acid damage into he damage you selected for the feat. So if you have Energy Substitution(electric) you can turn a fireball into a loo lightning ball.

When you prestige, however, all your spells that deal energy damage are automatically converted to your chosen speciality,which must match your energy substitution feat,by you class feature.

Now that you know how it work, here's my question. In the example above if you prestige and take energy substitution again for a different energy,say acid, can you use it to cast non-electric spells by converting them to acid. For example,

Fireball forcibly becomes lightning ball via class feature and then an acid ball via your feat?

Or

Would fireball become acidball due to you feat before becoming forcibly changed to lightning ball?

Im pretty sure the rules says feats stack in the way most beneficial to the character but I'm not sure of that applies to class feature and feats stacking. Thoughts/rulings?

[Venger]

yeah you can convert it to acid in your example if you want to.

[Goaty14]

Yea, you could probably do the first example, though your DM might rule that metamagic/class abilities only apply to the "final" form it's in.

[Crake]

yeah you can convert it to acid in your example if you want to.

I don't believe it would:


Elemental Specialty (Ex): The first step toward transcending mortal form requires an elemental savant to choose her elemental specialty. Upon entering the class, she must select an element and its associated energy type (air = electricity, earth = acid, fire = fire, or water = cold). This choice must match the Energy Substitution feat that the savant selected to gain entry to the prestige class. When the savant casts a spell that normally deals energy damage, its energy descriptor changes to the savant’s chosen energy type, and it deals damage of that energy type instead of its normal energy type

It would seem elemental specialty would override energy substitution.

However, if you wish to overcome immunities, for fire and cold there is searing spell and piercing cold respectively.

[Segev]

There are feats, however, like (I think it's called) Searing Heat, which causes your [fire] spells to damage [fire] creatures by just being so hot even their immunity doesn't apply.

[Khedrac]

As Crake says, the way the 3.5 Elemental Savant is worded makes the class dangerously weak bacuse they have to use their chosen element, that said, it is a very reasonable house rule to allow the character to choose whether or not (or which) element to substitue into a spell.
The 3.0 version of the class was reasomable without be overpowered (no more so than any other mage) but the 3.5 version was nerfed into unplayability for me - consider asking your DM about porting some of the 3.0 class back into play.

[Devinous]

Ok, thanks for all your advice!

[Zaq]

I don't believe it would:



It would seem elemental specialty would override energy substitution.

However, if you wish to overcome immunities, for fire and cold there is searing spell and piercing cold respectively.

I thought Piercing Cold helped with resistance but not with immunity?

[Psyren]

A lot of these less popular PrCs got left by the wayside because they lose spellcasting. You could always ask your GM to let you use Prestigious Spellcaster from Pathfinder to fill in the missing progression.


I thought Piercing Cold helped with resistance but not with immunity?

I believe both do affect immunes (they take half damage.)

[Zaq]

I believe both do affect immunes (they take half damage.)

Ah, right, Piercing Cold deals half damage to you if you're immune to cold for a reason other than having the [Cold] subtype. What I was remembering is that Piercing Cold doesn't get past the [Cold] subtype, while Searing Spell does get around the [Fire] subtype. That was why I had remembered that Searing Spell is superior to Piercing Cold.

[denthor]

Your a mage. You really like electricity. You become an air elemental savant. So a 3rd level fireball is lightning. 3rd level slot 1 of 4 used

You memorize a fireball add the level adjusted feat now your fireball is a 4th level slot fireball (acid) 1 of 3 slots used.

How I would write it out so I and DM both could check rules if questions arise. Wizards are paperwork intense.

3rd level spell
Fireball [electric damage] free conversion
Tiny hut
Daylight [continual light] I am old will give same spell with both names.

4th level

Fireball [acid damage] one level conversion needed
Black tentacles
Summon monster 4

[Mordaedil]

Ah, right, Piercing Cold deals half damage to you if you're immune to cold for a reason other than having the [Cold] subtype. What I was remembering is that Piercing Cold doesn't get past the [Cold] subtype, while Searing Spell does get around the [Fire] subtype. That was why I had remembered that Searing Spell is superior to Piercing Cold.
It's a bit better if you go with Frost Mage prestige class, where upon immunities no longer protect you at all. I think cold subtype still protects you, not entirely sure.

[Venger]

It's a bit better if you go with Frost Mage prestige class, where upon immunities no longer protect you at all. I think cold subtype still protects you, not entirely sure.

Not quite. It just grants you the piercing cold feat and allows you to bypass all resistances and immunities imparted by spells and "spell-like effects," but not the cold subtype itself, so that will still block piercing cold (unless your target acquired the cold subtype via mantle of the icy soul. since this isn't a dispel effect, it can still evade the spell, even though it's instantaneous)