The care and feeding of monks

[Angelalex242]

So, I've tried playing a 5e monk for the first time.

It did not go well. The Party TPKed against 9 ghouls (6 person party, all level 1) The GM was nice and, Death Curse be damned, he said everyone lived anyway.

Still, I am not pleased with my performance. How does one use low level monks effectively? I'm currently level 2, and going open hand at 3.

[Jerrykhor]

Whats your race and ability scores?

[KRSW]

6 lvl 1 characters vs 9 CR1 ghouls is extremely level inappropriate and I am not surprised you all died whatsoever. Honestly, it would have been lucky to kill maybe 4. Its not your fault that you and your party died.

I am no monk expert but basically all you do is attack and spend ki points in combat.

[Kane0]

Monks play similar to rogues in that you perform best when not pinned down by the enemy. Let the fighter, barbarian and paladin take the brunt of the melee fighting, you weave in and out where and when you are needed to flurry or lock down key targets. Use your speed to your advantage, engaging on your terms and acting as a force multiplier on targets the rest of your party are going after.

At low levels your Ki is better used for Patient Defense and Step of the Wind to keep yourself alive rather than Flurry of Blows as you already get more attacks than most others. Be sure to use them liberally as you get them back on a short rest, they do you no good unused.
Your faster movement can also make you a lifesaver if a healing potion needs to be administered quickly, freeing up spell slots and actions for others.

Many monk weapons are still better than your monk damage as well. A quarterstaff is a d8 compared to a d4 punch for example, and you can use either Str or Dex for attack and damage so later you can focus on increasing your Dex and Wis when you start getting ASIs.

Open Hand gives you some great tools to work with too, especially Open Hand Technique. All three of its uses are very handy when used right. Move enemies into fireballing position, knock enemies prone right before the bruiser's turn, deny reactions of an enemy threatening your caster, etc.

Edit: It also helps to know when to run, and that many ghouls vs your party is a running scenario. Good thing you are faster than most.

[Foxhound438]

Still, I am not pleased with my performance. How does one use low level monks effectively? I'm currently level 2, and going open hand at 3.

at this low of level, you might opt to use ranged weapons. At 3rd when you get open hand's reaction-off, you can pretty efficiently run in for some free punches and get out untouched, but at level 2 you might want to break out a light crossbow to stay safe. It's a bit unfortunate that you don't get to do cool monk things, but you should hit level 3 pretty quickly.

[Angelalex242]

Whats your race and ability scores?

V human.

I did the optimized route of 8 str 16 dex 16 con 8 int 16 wis 8 cha.

Feat was Observant. (Resilient Con might've been nice against the ghouls, but I'll eventually be proficient in all saves, so it ends up redundant.)

I actually have a 20 passive perception, so that'll be nice moving forward. Find all kinds of stuff.

I'm debating whether I should max dex first or wis. I usually prefer feats, but the monk needs those ASIs a little too badly, I think.

Oh, the campaign is 'Tomb of Annihilation."

[Kane0]

Oh, the campaign is 'Tomb of Annihilation."

Mobile. There are encounters you will need to run from, and Mobile is good all-round even if you aren't running away.

Sounds like your build/combat aren't the problem so much a case of 'Know when to hold em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run'

[Ignimortis]

Mobile. There are encounters you will need to run from, and Mobile is good all-round even if you aren't running away.


Seconded. Even if there aren't any more encounters that require running away, Mobile synergizes with monks exceptionally well.

[CTurbo]

I really like the 5e Monk. You just need to play them to their strengths. They are a skirmisher class. You can't just sit down in melee and not move around.

If you're worried about being too squishy, choose Long Death instead of Open Hand. You'll get temp hit point equal to your level + Wis mod every time you kill something.

From here on, I wouldn't take another feat until Dex is maxed for sure and maybe not even without bumping Wis at least one more time.

My Wood Elf Long Death Monk with 20 Dex and 20 Wis felt downright overpowered. With a 21 AC and a +1 and then +2 quarterstaff, he was an absolute beast.

[JellyPooga]

Sounds like your build/combat aren't the problem so much a case of 'Know when to hold em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run'

Don't forget to bum some cigarettes and drink strangers' booze as the price for giving them some advice :smallwink:

[Angelalex242]

I really like the 5e Monk. You just need to play them to their strengths. They are a skirmisher class. You can't just sit down in melee and not move around.

If you're worried about being too squishy, choose Long Death instead of Open Hand. You'll get temp hit point equal to your level + Wis mod every time you kill something.

From here on, I wouldn't take another feat until Dex is maxed for sure and maybe not even without bumping Wis at least one more time.

My Wood Elf Long Death Monk with 20 Dex and 20 Wis felt downright overpowered. With a 21 AC and a +1 and then +2 quarterstaff, he was an absolute beast.

That was kinda my problem. I'm typically a Paladin, a tanking Paladin at that, who planted himself in melee, with heavy armor master, often took the dodge action, and let creatures flail uselessly at me while my friends killed them. The monk isn't built to stand and fight, he's basically a skirmisher without a bow.

[JackPhoenix]

Just a note: For 6 player level 1 party, 9 ghouls is the entire daily encounter budget. That thing about running 5-8 encounters per adventuring day? You've faced all that compressed into a single encounter. It's 6x deadly fight. No wonder you've had no chance.

[CTurbo]

That was kinda my problem. I'm typically a Paladin, a tanking Paladin at that, who planted himself in melee, with heavy armor master, often took the dodge action, and let creatures flail uselessly at me while my friends killed them. The monk isn't built to stand and fight, he's basically a skirmisher without a bow.


Well get a bow then and problem solved! lol

In all seriousness, the Monk is a great class and I think you'll be happier with your guy when you get a couple more levels in. I still recommend Long Death over Open Hand if you want even more survivability.

[Kyrinthic]

At level 1 you are a low HP fighter that dual wields. Overall nothing impressive, you will feel outperformed by other melee characters. It gets better though. at level 5 you have 3 attacks to other people's 2, and enough Ki to be able to usefully do stuff.

Your AC starts off mediocre at 15-16 (you went all in and have a 16 I saw), which isnt enough to really rely on, but once you get a couple ASIs in there and find bracers of defense or the like, and enough Ki to spend on patient defense, you will be one of the harder members of the party to hit.

By level 8 or so, you are a solid defensive tank with patient defense, a strong mobile attacker with flurry of blows, or a powerful single target CC with stunning fist. They of course all compete for your Ki pool, but you should have enough to really not worry too much about using them.

The most important playstyle element is knowing when to be defensive and when to be offensive. You do a variety of different things quite well, but you really can only do one at a time for the most part.

Certain items work exceptionally well for monks, a flaming shortsword or a staff of thunder and lightning stack so much damage into your flurry of blows it is silly. Bracers of defense are like a force multiplier for patient defense. But a lot of magic items will feel underwhelming for you. So be careful on looking for the right things as well.

[KorvinStarmast]

6 lvl 1 characters vs 9 CR1 ghouls is extremely level inappropriate and I am not surprised you all died whatsoever.
Welcome to ToA.

I am no monk expert but basically all you do is attack and spend ki points in combat. There's a bit more to it than that ... movement is rather useful in my experience. Our level 2 party ran into a giant. So we avoided it rather than getting squashed like bugs.

[DnDegenerates]

Don't just "know" what mobile does. That feat should become a muscle memory tool that makes you nearly invincible as a melee combatant vs anything(s) you have more movement speed than.

Shadow monks and long death monks are naturally super hard to kill.

Guerilla tactics as a monk makes you very powerful. You aren't a front liner like a fighter/paladin/barbarian. You have the option of engaging anyone on the battlefield and then running off, forcing them to reposition or change targets.

Stun things. This is incredibly strong. Underused by many monk players. Knowing when to do so makes

Monk archetypes abilities. Every archetype has build in Crowd control or fleeing mechanics. Use these to strategic advantage.

Terrain/mundane items. You may not get as many bonus action options that correlate with items as rogues, but you have plenty of options that allow you to use terrain to your advantage. With the mobile feat this becomes even more powerful if you manage to use difficult terrain against your foes.

ASIs. You're one of the classes that relies on multiple high stats to do comparable class specific things. Make sure you aren't spread too thin. Too many feats can gimp you more than had you taken ASIs and relied on your own class understanding to shine. There are enough built in tools for monk to opt out of many of the more alluring melee feats once you understand the class enough to be creative.