Levels for "Obtain Familiar"

[schreier]

I know that generally it is held that all arcane spellcasting levels count towards a familiar gained through obtain familiar (as opposed to just wizard/sorcerer levels when using a standard familiar).

This is based on the language of the feat, which states:
"For the purpose of determining familiar abilities that depend on your arcane caster class level, your levels in all classes that allow you to cast arcane spells stack."

What does this mean though, for classes with "lost" spellcaster levels? For example - if you take 10 levels of Sand Shaper -- do you have 9 or 10 levels of "Familiar" progression? Similarly, Hexblade - do levels 1-3 count for Familiar progression?

The language seems to say yes, as it is "levels in all classes" - not "all levels that improve spellcasting." What about eldritch master? Kind of out there, but it does add additional "spell slots" eventually. What about Chameleon or factotum?

Thanks!
schreier

[Bad Wolf]

Seeing as Sand Shaper only has 8 levels of progression, a Sorcerer 10/Sand Shaper 10 with the Obtain Familiar feat would have a level 18 Familiar.

Hexblades treat their familiar progression as a Sorcerer -3, so their familiar would be level 1 at 4th level. However, if they somehow traded it out and got it back with Obtain Familiar, then it would be equal to their hexblade level.

Factotum would qualify. Chameleon too I believe, but I'm not as sure.

[schreier]

Sorry about the wrong level on the sand shaper, and not knowing the hexblade rule ... But the main point is you play only levels increasing caster level increase familiar? Like I said, the language doesn't directly support that, since it references whether the class has spellcasting, but it is vague which is why I started the discussion

[Nifft]

Yeah it is wonky.

Often people use caster level as short-hand, but as you say that's not accurate. It's probably the prereq (which does mention caster level) which gets people confused.

It's either:

- Levels in all classes stack when the level grants you Arcane spellcasting; or
- Levels in all classes stack when the class grants you Arcane spellcasting.

The former leads to Wiz10/Sandshaper10 -> 18; the latter leads to -> 20.

[Venger]

I know that generally it is held that all arcane spellcasting levels count towards a familiar gained through obtain familiar (as opposed to just wizard/sorcerer levels when using a standard familiar).

This is based on the language of the feat, which states:
"For the purpose of determining familiar abilities that depend on your arcane caster class level, your levels in all classes that allow you to cast arcane spells stack."

What does this mean though, for classes with "lost" spellcaster levels? For example - if you take 10 levels of Sand Shaper -- do you have 9 or 10 levels of "Familiar" progression? Similarly, Hexblade - do levels 1-3 count for Familiar progression?
The language seems to say yes, as it is "levels in all classes" - not "all levels that improve spellcasting."
Your reading up to here is correct. you count dead levels for the reasons you outline.


What about eldritch master? Kind of out there, but it does add additional "spell slots" eventually. What about Chameleon or factotum?

Thanks!
schreier

I've never heard of eldritch master, so assume it's from dragon magazine or dandwiki. If it's a class like dragon disciple, or eunuch warlock and just gives more slots but doesn't progress spells/day or cl, then I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't stack onto obtain familiar.

chameleon can't use its foci to qualify for feats, so that's a no. factotum provides an arcane cl = class level, so it is a popular choice for obtain familiar.

[schreier]

That's my reading as well (all levels).

Here is the Eldritch master abilities that may or may not grant familiar progression:
"Combined Levels: Add the character's eldritch master levels to the levels of any other arcane spell casting class he has when determining the level-based effects of spells. For example, a 7th-level sorcerer with three levels of eldritch master casting a fireball spell inflicts 10d6 points of damage with a range of 800 feet. This is an extraordinary ability."

And

"Spell Boost: At 3rd, 6th, and 9th level, the eldritch master gains the ability to cast a spell one level higher than his current highest level spell once per day. The eldritch master also gains a single spell known for that level if he does not otherwise know any spells of that level. For example, a 7th-level sorcerer who gains three levels of eldritch master can cast one 4th-level spell per day, and he gains a new spell of 4th level that he knows. A 5th-level sorcerer who gains three levels of eldritch master gains the ability to cast one additional 3rd-level spell per day, but gains no additional spells known because he already also gained +2 3rd-level spells known at that same level."

It's a Dragon magazine class.. Kindlike practiced spellcaster ... I think it helps pierce SR as well, but it's not well worn if that is the case.

My gut is that it does not improve familiar.

[Psyren]

It's either:

- Levels in all classes stack when the level grants you Arcane spellcasting; or
- Levels in all classes stack when the class grants you Arcane spellcasting.

The former leads to Wiz10/Sandshaper10 -> 18; the latter leads to -> 20.

This is a good summary and I go with the former reading myself, but it's open to interpretation.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Factotum provides an arcane cl = class level, so it is a popular choice for obtain familiar.

Oddly enough, the only place arcane dilettante uses the term "arcane" is in its name. It's certainly reasonable to consider that it should be arcane but not only doesn't it say that, it also makes no mention of arcane spell failure. Further, while it explicitly reinstates the need for material components; it fails to do so for verbal, somatic, and focus components when casting as SLAs removes these requirements.

Short version: factotum is an editing dumpster fire. Run this by your DM rather than presume it'll work.