Proceeding anyway

[ZorroGames]

Evaluation of Swords Bards very negative from past DM and player in a shared adventure we played (I had my 2nd level Paladin preparing for MC) who usually goes full caster without MC.

He felt it was over-rated compared to other caster classes. He did have very weak results from flourishes during the game so maybe skewed first response but how have others found Swords Bard compared to other casters or martial casters?

I plan to proceed with my Swords Bard dip in Fighter character to see for myself.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

I think I'd be interested in playing one if Master's Flourish wasn't so late. As it is, I struggle to see why I'd play a melee bard over a hexblade, paladin or rogue.

[Naanomi]

I see it as the second best Bard subclass... but Lore is so stellar that anything else has a hard time shining. Seems to do the role of ‘fighting bard’ better than Valor to me

[Contrast]

I see it as the second best Bard subclass... but Lore is so stellar that anything else has a hard time shining. Seems to do the role of ‘fighting bard’ better than Valor to me

I mean...it's certainly the best melee focused bard subclass. The problem is their abilities do nothing if you're not in melee and I don't think they're good enough to justify purposefully sending the bard into melee.

[ZorroGames]

In the local AL games too often it is heard, “we have all squishy casters, we need a (insert Fighter or melee or Cleric) to survive,)” and being “the guy who usually provides a Mountain Dwarf to fill that role in response,” I just decided to play another rarely seen locally class, Bard, with a little melee ability - Champion 5 MC with Swords Bard 6+.

Classic example this was 2 x Wizard, a Sorcerer, a Warlock, and myself. A line of all level 1... I played with them at using a Level 1 Fighter since I didn’t want to be too strong in their first game but the DM thought they could use some muscle.

I always play what attracts my RP self more than ultra optimizing. Usually Mountain Dwarf and usually a martial or martial capable MC.

The Bard Fighter mix seemed perfect for a Mountain Dwarf character.

[ZorroGames]

I think I'd be interested in playing one if Master's Flourish wasn't so late. As it is, I struggle to see why I'd play a melee bard over a hexblade, paladin or rogue.

But you are not me. 😆

[ZorroGames]

I mean...it's certainly the best melee focused bard subclass. The problem is their abilities do nothing if you're not in melee and I don't think they're good enough to justify purposefully sending the bard into melee.

I always end up in melee, once holding a gangplank versus a crew of skeletons as a 1st level Wizard (first 5e full caster) while “everyone else” used bows and spells to “support” me. Amazingly it worked. Three or four rounds worth.

[ZorroGames]

I see it as the second best Bard subclass... but Lore is so stellar that anything else has a hard time shining. Seems to do the role of ‘fighting bard’ better than Valor to me

Really want to play a Lore Bard but given the local AL games...

[ZorroGames]

I think I'd be interested in playing one if Master's Flourish wasn't so late. As it is, I struggle to see why I'd play a melee bard over a hexblade, paladin or rogue.

Yeah, probably never seen in most AL games. Just shook my head first time I read the class.

[Contrast]

But you are not me. 😆


I always end up in melee, once holding a gangplank versus a crew of skeletons as a 1st level Wizard (first 5e full caster) while “everyone else” used bows and spells to “support” me. Amazingly it worked. Three or four rounds worth.

FYI I believe double posting is against forum rules - use the edit button.

If you're going into it knowing your choice isn't optimal, fair enough. But you asked for peoples opinions and I'd be inclined to agree that the mentioned classes do 'spell caster with melee' much better.

I do also get frustrated with people getting a bit too mono-focused with their role too though. Particularly at level 1 there really isn't much different between the classes so if there's a need to get stuck in, just do it. I've had people tell me I was crazy for rushing into combat with my sorc before and I pointed out as a dragon sorc who had a very high con, I had the highest AC and HP of anyone in the party except the fighter. I've stuck around in combat when I could have disengaged out before as well because sometimes avoiding damage on yourself just means someone else gets dog piled which doesn't do the party any favours.

[Tanarii]

Play a valor bard instead. They're generally superior. Especially if the problem is squishy full casters.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

But you are not me. 😆

Yeah. I'm not trying to convince you not to play one! I just don't see it filling a space mechanically that wouldn't be better filled by a different class.

[ZorroGames]

I see it as the second best Bard subclass... but Lore is so stellar that anything else has a hard time shining. Seems to do the role of ‘fighting bard’ better than Valor to me


Play a valor bard instead. They're generally superior. Especially if the problem is squishy full casters.

Okay. 🤯

Seriously, I appreciate people trying to “advise” my character selection... but I will stick with my original plan.

[Tanarii]

Okay. 🤯

Seriously, I appreciate people trying to “advise” my character selection... but I will stick with my original plan.fair enough. I must have skimmed, I didnt realize you were decided. *reads thread title* okay that was pretty bad of me 😂

[Naanomi]

Okay. 🤯

Seriously, I appreciate people trying to “advise” my character selection... but I will stick with my original plan.
I wasn’t attempting to change the character (I like college of swords), only to explain why you see less builds utilizing it than you might otherwise expect

[PeteNutButter]

Play a valor bard instead. They're generally superior. Especially if the problem is squishy full casters.

Valor Bard has absolutely nothing on swords bard, especially if he is planning to start with level one in fighter.

Swords Bard is really quite strong. When combined with heavy armor and a shield you can get some ridiculous AC. Consider dipping a level after extra attack to pick up shield spell.

[Tanarii]

Valor Bard has absolutely nothing on swords bard, especially if he is planning to start with level one in fighter.

Swords Bard is really quite strong. When combined with heavy armor and a shield you can get some ridiculous AC. Consider dipping a level after extra attack to pick up shield spell.starting with a level in fighter means being a level behind in casting forever. It's a valid choice to make, but generally speaking I discount multiclassing when comparing the value of subclasses because of that. But you are correct, if all marital weapons and shields are coming from another class dip, valor can't really compare with swords. Unless you just *really* must have the ability to grant others an AC boosting reaction.

In a straight up single class comparison, Valor Bard are better at being less squishy tank-light than Sword Bards if S&B (plus possible SM), or better at damage output if 2H (GWM or SS). Sword bards are not bad as rogue-like stabby 1H+nothing or TWF bards. But they can't keep up as either DPR if feats are in play, or tank-light because (magical) shields.