So can a lightsaber cut through a magic sword?

[Jeivar]

I occasionally find myself pondering this question. In a crossover situation with a D&D-esque setting, would a regular lightsaber just slice through a magic sword, or would the Jedi actually have a fight on their hands? I'm not the biggest expert on the Star Wars extended universe, but I know that in at least some tellings a lightsaber is more than just a super-duper laser; the crystal within is actually mystical. But then there ARE a few materials in-universe that a lightsaber can't easily cut through.

So let's hear some opinions: Kylo Ren and Drizzt Do'Urden swing their respective blades at one another. What happens upon contact?

[Peelee]

Kylo Ren and Drizzt Do'Urden swing their respective blades at one another. What happens upon contact?
Nerds argue for days, no one convinces anyone else, and other nerds will avoid it entirely because there's no way to objectively resolve two fictional universes with two different rules.

[BeerMug Paladin]

Magic sword 1 hits magic sword 2. Plot resolves as required.

[Keltest]

I would assume it depends on how strong the magic is. Drizzt's swords, for example, are not indestructible, they don't have a Mount Doom they need to be thrown into to end them. The lightsaber would probably seriously damage the swords each strike until they break.

Charon's Claw though, from the same setting, wasn't even destroyed by a literal personification of the state of being on fire, so it would probably stop the lightsaber on contact.

[Kantaki]

Well... I think it would depend.
If being magic makes the sword harder to break or it is made from some particularly sturdy material it should at least be able to withstand the lightsaber- there are some things that can withstand the fancy nightlights after all.

If it's just a regular sword with some spell on it?
You'll need a new one afterwards.

[factotum]

Nerds argue for days, no one convinces anyone else, and other nerds will avoid it entirely because there's no way to objectively resolve two fictional universes with two different rules.

This. Even in-universe it's not terribly clear what a lightsaber can and cannot do--in TPM Qui-Gon Jinn was melting his way through a feet-thick blast door using his saber, implying the blade is very, very hot indeed, yet in Ep4 Obi-Wan chopped off the thug's arm in the bar without the blade cauterising the wound. There's supposed to be some sort of metal that will actually block a lightsaber, but it's unclear why Jedi and Sith don't make armour out of it--imagine if Darth Vader's suit had been made from that stuff, it would have made the fight in RotJ go somewhat differently!

There is one setting where Star Wars meets the d20 RPG system used in D&D 3rd edition--the KOTOR CRPGs. You could possibly work out from that how much damage a lightsaber can do and if it could thus destroy a magic sword--I don't think it's a valid comparison, because I doubt the people who designed KOTOR ever thought anyone would try bringing D&D stuff in, but it's the only one you're likely to get that has actual numbers behind it.

[Keltest]

This. Even in-universe it's not terribly clear what a lightsaber can and cannot do--in TPM Qui-Gon Jinn was melting his way through a feet-thick blast door using his saber, implying the blade is very, very hot indeed, yet in Ep4 Obi-Wan chopped off the thug's arm in the bar without the blade cauterising the wound. There's supposed to be some sort of metal that will actually block a lightsaber, but it's unclear why Jedi and Sith don't make armour out of it--imagine if Darth Vader's suit had been made from that stuff, it would have made the fight in RotJ go somewhat differently!

There is one setting where Star Wars meets the d20 RPG system used in D&D 3rd edition--the KOTOR CRPGs. You could possibly work out from that how much damage a lightsaber can do and if it could thus destroy a magic sword--I don't think it's a valid comparison, because I doubt the people who designed KOTOR ever thought anyone would try bringing D&D stuff in, but it's the only one you're likely to get that has actual numbers behind it.

Its called Cortosis, and in the old EU they did actually make weapons and armor out of it. The reason they don't mass produce it is because as a metal, it actually really sucks for any other purpose. It doesn't stop blaster shots very well and vibroblades will cut right through it. Lightsabers are sufficiently rare as to make it not worth the investment.

[GloatingSwine]

Insufficient data.

Depends on the magic.

If the sword is magically indestructible, then no because it's indestructible.

If it's just generically +1 then probably.


Its called Cortosis, and in the old EU they did actually make weapons and armor out of it. The reason they don't mass produce it is because as a metal, it actually really sucks for any other purpose. It doesn't stop blaster shots very well and vibroblades will cut right through it. Lightsabers are sufficiently rare as to make it not worth the investment.

And apparently 4000 years ago literally everyone has a sword made of it and blasters are basically useless and do less damage than swords, because Bioware weren't over the Forgotten Realms quite yet.

[Fyraltari]

This. Even in-universe it's not terribly clear what a lightsaber can and cannot do--in TPM Qui-Gon Jinn was melting his way through a feet-thick blast door using his saber, implying the blade is very, very hot indeed, yet in Ep4 Obi-Wan chopped off the thug's arm in the bar without the blade cauterising the wound.

Sinc that's the only time that ever happens I think we can safely admit the retcon that Lightsabers do cauterize wounds and Aqualish bilology is weird enough that lightsaber don't cauterize them (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Aqualish).

[Jeivar]

Sinc that's the only time that ever happens I think we can safely admit the retcon that Lightsabers do cauterize wounds and Aqualish bilology is weird enough that lightsaber don't cauterize them (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Aqualish).

Yes, I think we can file that under Early Instalment Weirdness.

[Mechalich]

Sith Warblades are mystical swords created using Sith Alchemy. They block lightsabers just fine. Fundamentally a magical sword is no different. Also weapons sheathed in energy effects - like Techblades - can also block lightsabers.

[HolyDraconus]

I will say klang.

5e is supposed to be real light when it comes to magic items, so on the whole they are supposed to be more powerful. Regular acid can melt weapons in dnd, as can slime and rust monsters. But every last one of them call out magic weapons as the exception. That doesn't mean that they can't be destroyed, just that common means won't work. From what I gather of lightsabers, they aren't artifacts of power, and at one point it was child's play to make them. And considering that they have in universe common means of meeting AND beating them, I would say they can be simply magical in terms of use. In 5e, I would legit classify them as modified sun blades. And nothing about sunblades prevent them from clashing with other swords

[Strigon]

And apparently 4000 years ago literally everyone has a sword made of it and blasters are basically useless and do less damage than swords, because Bioware weren't over the Forgotten Realms quite yet.

Not made of it, simply incorporating small amounts of it. Pure cortosis actually shorts out a lightsaber in most tellings.

Then, presumably, blasters become more powerful as advancements are made in the field, making swords outdated.

[Mechalich]

Not made of it, simply incorporating small amounts of it. Pure cortosis actually shorts out a lightsaber in most tellings.

Then, presumably, blasters become more powerful as advancements are made in the field, making swords outdated.

The key innovation is upgrades in power cell (essentially battery) technologies. In the Legends EU Jedi spent a great deal of time wearing power-pack belts in order to power their lightsabers. Shortly before KOTOR I this technological hurdle was bypassed. Over time the use of vibroblades as a melee sidearm was replaced by techblades and techstaves (as seen in SWTOR) which used an energy matrix rather than cortosis. Additional technological development (and the rediscovery of advanced technology not known to the Republic such as the weaponry of Iokath) led to more powerful blasters.

There's also evidence that personal armor and shielding technologies were comparatively more advanced during the KOTOR/SWTOR era than what came later, for whatever reason - the incorporation of rediscovered Rakata metallurgy techniques perhaps - leading to a greater prominence for melee weaponry.

[Traab]

Did a quick search and magic weapons are explicitly breakable in 4-5e at least. You basically add +2 to hardness and 10 to its hp for every +1 magic damage it has over a standard nonmagical version, Ie a +1 short sword has +2 hardness and +10 hp over a normal short sword. It used to be that it only worked when you attacked with an equal or greater magical weapon yourself but that got removed. So yes, a lightsaber would cut through a magic weapon, the time it takes depends on whatever its damage and such may be and just how strong of a weapon it is. Thats according to D&D rules, in the star wars universe, the answer would also be yes as its not likely to be made of one of the very few exceptions to a lightsaber's "I cut all of the things" capability.

[Strigon]

The key innovation is upgrades in power cell (essentially battery) technologies. In the Legends EU Jedi spent a great deal of time wearing power-pack belts in order to power their lightsabers. Shortly before KOTOR I this technological hurdle was bypassed. Over time the use of vibroblades as a melee sidearm was replaced by techblades and techstaves (as seen in SWTOR) which used an energy matrix rather than cortosis. Additional technological development (and the rediscovery of advanced technology not known to the Republic such as the weaponry of Iokath) led to more powerful blasters.

There's also evidence that personal armor and shielding technologies were comparatively more advanced during the KOTOR/SWTOR era than what came later, for whatever reason - the incorporation of rediscovered Rakata metallurgy techniques perhaps - leading to a greater prominence for melee weaponry.

Huh; I always thought it was cortosis weave in the blades. Could've sworn that was the case.

Anyway, is it necessary that shielding be more powerful in TOR? My assumption was simply that blasters got stronger more quickly than shields and armour did, or that there were diminishing returns. If you assume that defensive technologies were stronger back then, you run into issues with ship-based warfare. As firepower grows stronger, yet shield and hull strength weaken, you either end up with glass cannons by the time of the OT (which we don't have) or ships that blast away at each other for ages with no harm done in the Old Republic Era (which we also don't have).

Or the writers just did stuff they thought was cool without much regard for canon and logic. That's also possible.

[Keltest]

Huh; I always thought it was cortosis weave in the blades. Could've sworn that was the case.

Anyway, is it necessary that shielding be more powerful in TOR? My assumption was simply that blasters got stronger more quickly than shields and armour did, or that there were diminishing returns. If you assume that defensive technologies were stronger back then, you run into issues with ship-based warfare. As firepower grows stronger, yet shield and hull strength weaken, you either end up with glass cannons by the time of the OT (which we don't have) or ships that blast away at each other for ages with no harm done in the Old Republic Era (which we also don't have).

Or the writers just did stuff they thought was cool without much regard for canon and logic. That's also possible.

In KOTOR its specifically mentioned that the defensive technologies against blasters currently have the edge, which is why melee weapons which can penetrate the shields and armor are popular during the game. Now, one could also point out that nobody can hit the broad side of a barn with blasters (every basic attack animation includes at least one missed shot even on a hit), but I assume that's just an art misjudgment.

[Peelee]

Cortosis was weird. They brought it out in I, Jedi and Vision of the Future, where it shorted out lightsabers but was structurally weak otherwise and not much use for anything except lightsaber defense. Then KOTOR introduced cortosis weaves in armor and swords to explain why lightsabers don't just slice through all enemies (which was a smart call for gameplay balance, to be fair), and then the Darth Bane novels come out where cortosis can soak up blaster bolts like a sponge and is invaluable for armor plating, even on starships.

It wasn't at all consistent, and is one of the many, many things from

[Mechalich]

Anyway, is it necessary that shielding be more powerful in TOR? My assumption was simply that blasters got stronger more quickly than shields and armour did, or that there were diminishing returns. If you assume that defensive technologies were stronger back then, you run into issues with ship-based warfare. As firepower grows stronger, yet shield and hull strength weaken, you either end up with glass cannons by the time of the OT (which we don't have) or ships that blast away at each other for ages with no harm done in the Old Republic Era (which we also don't have).


In TOR, ship-based weapons are comparatively less powerful than they were later, with proton torpedoes being a highly advanced experimental weapon and common missiles being considerably less powerful.

It's important to recognize that Star Wars technology does not advance linearly, or especially through research, at least not in Legends continuity. KOTOR hinges around the recovery of key pieces of superior Rakata technology that predates the Old Republic entirely. TOR utilizes technological innovations that also trace to the Rakata and additionally introduces Iokath - a super-advanced dyson sphere built by a fallen civilization - as a new source of advanced technologies that power the Eternal Empire and are eventually incorporated by the Republic.

With regard to the PT and OT eras, they exist after a thousand years of roughly stable growth following the massive cataclysm that was the New Sith Wars (which ends with Darth Bane) which saw a huge amount of technology and knowledge lost. As a result the PT era technological balance has no direct continuity with the KOTOR era.

[Frozen_Feet]

"Magic sword" is sort of variable.

I'll use d20 rules for a baseline, as they were already discussed. The basic hardness for a one-handed blade made out of steel is 10 and basic hitpoints for it are 5. Since objects take half damage from lightning and fire before applying hardness, this means that to destroy a normal steel sword in one strike would take 30 points of damage. Each "plus" worth of magic increases hardness by 2 and hitpoints by 10, so a simple +1 sword would take 42 points to destroy in one strike. So on and so forth.

So how much damage do lightsabers deal? A quick look shows the d20 rules give values ranging from 2d6 to 3d6, depending on size and crystal used. Lightsabers do both slashing and energy type samage and ignore damage reduction. For purposes of this post this also applies to hardness, as it's a homologous value.

The average damage for 2d6 lightsaber is 7, so it would break through a normal steel blade in one hit most of the time. Since maximum damage is 12, A +1 sword would take a minimum of two hits. A +2 or +3 sword would take a minimum of three hits, a +4 sword would take a minimum of four, so on and so forth.

The average damage for 3d6 lightsaber would be 10.5, so it would break a normal blade in one hit most of the time and a +1 blade some of the time. A +2 or +3 sword would take a minimum of two hits. So on and so forth.

These are values for untrained user. A skilled jedi (in game terms, someone with high BAB, high Strength, Power Attack and Weapon Specialization feats etc.) could deal significantly higher damage values and hence break even a highly-enchanted sword in one blow.

However, the category of "magic swords" also includes artefacts which are only breakable through specific means and indestructible otherwise.

[GloatingSwine]

So how much damage do lightsabers deal? A quick look shows the d20 rules give values ranging from 2d6 to 3d6, depending on size and crystal used.

Original D20 and KOTOR have 2D8 for a bog standard lightsabre.

[Friv]

I'll use d20 rules for a baseline, as they were already discussed. The basic hardness for a one-handed blade made out of steel is 10 and basic hitpoints for it are 5. Since objects take half damage from lightning and fire before applying hardness, this means that to destroy a normal steel sword in one strike would take 30 points of damage. Each "plus" worth of magic increases hardness by 2 and hitpoints by 10, so a simple +1 sword would take 42 points to destroy in one strike. So on and so forth.

So how much damage do lightsabers deal? A quick look shows the d20 rules give values ranging from 2d6 to 3d6, depending on size and crystal used. Lightsabers do both slashing and energy type samage and ignore damage reduction. For purposes of this post this also applies to hardness, as it's a homologous value.

The average damage for 2d6 lightsaber is 7, so it would break through a normal steel blade in one hit most of the time. Since maximum damage is 12, A +1 sword would take a minimum of two hits. A +2 or +3 sword would take a minimum of three hits, a +4 sword would take a minimum of four, so on and so forth.

The average damage for 3d6 lightsaber would be 10.5, so it would break a normal blade in one hit most of the time and a +1 blade some of the time. A +2 or +3 sword would take a minimum of two hits. So on and so forth.

These are values for untrained user. A skilled jedi (in game terms, someone with high BAB, high Strength, Power Attack and Weapon Specialization feats etc.) could deal significantly higher damage values and hence break even a highly-enchanted sword in one blow.

However, the category of "magic swords" also includes artefacts which are only breakable through specific means and indestructible otherwise.

There are only two weirdness quibbles.

The first is, as a DM, I would be willing to say that lightsabers don't ignore the Hardness granted from the sword's magic, since it is, you know, magic. If that were the case, low-to-mid rank magic swords would have some damage reduction, and the top tier swords would be all but immune to lightsabers.

The second quibble is that, as per D&D rules, you have to target a sword instead of a person to break it; there aren't really rules for how much damage parrying does. In that case, we run into a lot of weirdness with lightsabers, which should definitely be breaking things on a successful parry.

[Frozen_Feet]

Normal weapons should break from contact with each other just as well; d20 games in general don't do equipment wear and tear very well. As an obvious pitfall of the game engine, it's neither interesting nor relevant.

[No brains]

According to SoulCalibur 4, lightsabers won't hurt normal weapons. Blocking still works as normal and Mitsurugi has a nice blade lock with Vader in a cutscene. Most of the weapons in SouCalibur are implied to be vaguely magical, but I don't recall how magical Mitsurugi's sword is supposed to be.

Technically by some D&D rules, a lightsaber is less effective at cutting weapons. I may be conflating a few different rules from varying editions, but most objects resist radiant damage.

Also Sun Blade is basically a lightsaber, so that can be used as a yardstick in this discussion.

[Frozen_Feet]

As noted, a direct d20 conversion for lightsabers exists, so there's no point whatsoever in using an unrelated magic item as a yardstick.

[tensai_oni]

Any crossover that doesn't do some kind of power normalization between its major players exists to show off how much stronger (implication: better) one of the canons is over the other and thus is bad writing.

In other words: forget magic weapons. If an important character has a non-magical but iconic weapon and uses it to face against a Jedi's lightsaber? The lightsaber won't cut through it, realism be damned. Writing may make up reasons or excuses for why this happened but in the end they're just that, excuses.

Realism (because lightsabers, as we all know, are incredibly realistic) and power levels are thrown out of the window for the sake of satisfying storytelling - the same storytelling that lets Black Widow and Hawkeye stand next to the Hulk and Thor and still contribute in a fight.

[Cikomyr]

I still never understood why a Yuuzan Vong snake-staff can resist a lightsaber. Did it had a power field?

[The Glyphstone]

I still never understood why a Yuuzan Vong snake-staff can resist a lightsaber. Did it had a power field?

According to Wwookkiieeppeeddiiaa....yes, apparently. They had glands that generated a biological power field somehow. Because reasons.

[Mechalich]

I still never understood why a Yuuzan Vong snake-staff can resist a lightsaber. Did it had a power field?

Because the Yuuzhan Vong are special in stupid ways. It's not just the amphistaves, their crab armor can resist lightsabers too. The justification was something, something, crystalline internals, but that wasn't really important. They worked that way precisely so that Yuuzhan Vong warriors could have lightsaber duels with Jedi, because the D&D authors Del Rey handed the franchise too needed to be able to write sword fights to fill up the New Jedi Order books.

[Blackhawk748]

Its called Cortosis, and in the old EU they did actually make weapons and armor out of it. The reason they don't mass produce it is because as a metal, it actually really sucks for any other purpose. It doesn't stop blaster shots very well and vibroblades will cut right through it. Lightsabers are sufficiently rare as to make it not worth the investment.

Also Beskar (aka Mandalorian Iron) and Prik, both are metals that can resist lightsaber cuts. Mandalorians make armor out of Beskar when they can get it (its rather rare pre New Republic era) and the stuff is friggin amazing. Prik was used in Greivous' Magna Guards staves and i believe in some other armors, but its rather pricey and rare.

Cortosis occasionally would get worked into armor and weapons as a weave, similar to carbon fibers. Basically its a coating, and as a coating its freakin amazing. Pure Cortosis is the stuff that short circuits the lighsabers but is pretty well crap for much else. Its not used because its even more expensive than the other two and a pain to work.


The key innovation is upgrades in power cell (essentially battery) technologies. In the Legends EU Jedi spent a great deal of time wearing power-pack belts in order to power their lightsabers. Shortly before KOTOR I this technological hurdle was bypassed. Over time the use of vibroblades as a melee sidearm was replaced by techblades and techstaves (as seen in SWTOR) which used an energy matrix rather than cortosis. Additional technological development (and the rediscovery of advanced technology not known to the Republic such as the weaponry of Iokath) led to more powerful blasters.

There's also evidence that personal armor and shielding technologies were comparatively more advanced during the KOTOR/SWTOR era than what came later, for whatever reason - the incorporation of rediscovered Rakata metallurgy techniques perhaps - leading to a greater prominence for melee weaponry.

As others have said, part of it is that weapons started to outstrip the defensive measures (much how guns finally outstripped armor) in our world and the other is that the Republic had over a thousand years of peace, so people didnt really bother with shields, as they where expensive and largely unnecessary.

[Doorhandle]

Nerds argue for days, no one convinces anyone else, and other nerds will avoid it entirely because there's no way to objectively resolve two fictional universes with two different rules.

Any yet we still argue about it anyway. :smalltongue:

Short of a cortosis magic sword, it depends on the properties of the weapon in question. If it was magically indestructible, I'd rule that it would go right through the lightsaber unharmed, but wouldn't be able to block it. By contrast, a magic sword wreathed in plasma(regular fire probably isn't enough) or specifically enchanted to block lightsabers would block it like a normal lightsaber. Aside from that i'd say the lightsaber would annihilate the other blade and go into the other guy's body.

An exception could probably be made for a blade made of elemental force: does anyone remember any point in the series where lightsabers went through deflection shields? From my admittedly spotty memory they don't usually get close enough to droidekas to try, but I bet it's in the expanded universe somwhere.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

"Realistically" the question never comes into play. Jedi are fast enough to deflect beam weapons with pinpoint accuracy. Any sword fight between them and anybody else should end with a single stab, too fast to react to or even to see. Yet here we are having a Star Wars universe full of jedi on normal people fights. Jedi powers therefor have no internal consistency. They don't follow rules, they follow what's cool for the current narrative. And it's not a bug, it's a feature. That's the main difference between Trek and Wars. In the better Star Trek stories they try to describe how stuff works and put numbers on it (not anything useful in real science terms, but it's still technobabble rather than just babble) before just making a deus ex machina up because dammit Jim we're making television here. Good Star Wars stories don't give explanations or numbers at all, and any attempt to do so usually ruins the magic. So for a Star Trek weapon you could at least try to figure out how it stacks up to anything else given the rules and ignoring the exceptions. D&D is kind of the same way. The tabletop RPG genre is cool because it's build on narrative exceptions rather than following rules like you can do much easier in any computer RPG nowadays, but there is still an underlying rules system. You could class the Star Trek weapon into a damage type that sort of fits its original rules and you have an answer for how a particular magic sword interacts with it. But in Star Wars the rules are inconsequential, and usually made up by writers who had the least of an idea of what Star Wars is about. I can't possibly predict how powers like that would interact with anything else. That's like asking about interactions with a magic item from Discworld. I'm not sure if Discworld canonically in-universe runs on narrativium, but it's pretty close.

So I guess I found a pretty long winded way of saying I don't know.

[Traab]

They arent fast enough, they have precognition that tells them in advance where to block the beam thats about to be fired. Arguably a far more broken skill than just speed. However, an argument could be made that since its a skill that takes years of practice and training to develop, its much like anything. A high level warrior versus a high level jedi isnt going to end with a single stab right off, its two incredibly highly skilled and powerful warriors going at it with their own skills.

[Strigon]

An exception could probably be made for a blade made of elemental force: does anyone remember any point in the series where lightsabers went through deflection shields? From my admittedly spotty memory they don't usually get close enough to droidekas to try, but I bet it's in the expanded universe somwhere.

I remember reading on Wookieepedia that droideka shields were weakest at the very top (and bottom?) and that they jedi could penetrate the shield in that particular spot.
Which is, unfortunately, the least helpful answer, as it means that we would have to compare the relative strength of droideka shields to force effects.

Edit:

They arent fast enough, they have precognition that tells them in advance where to block the beam thats about to be fired. Arguably a far more broken skill than just speed. However, an argument could be made that since its a skill that takes years of practice and training to develop, its much like anything. A high level warrior versus a high level jedi isnt going to end with a single stab right off, its two incredibly highly skilled and powerful warriors going at it with their own skills.

This is accurate. It's fairly well-established that jedi are particularly sensitive to events that directly threaten their lives, and others around them to a lesser extent.
So, they would have a huge advantage on the defense, but less of an advantage on the attack. Which probably explains why every lightsaber fight we see goes on for so long, when even a minor hit would incapacitate somebody.

[GloatingSwine]

They arent fast enough, they have precognition that tells them in advance where to block the beam thats about to be fired. Arguably a far more broken skill than just speed. However, an argument could be made that since its a skill that takes years of practice and training to develop, its much like anything. A high level warrior versus a high level jedi isnt going to end with a single stab right off, its two incredibly highly skilled and powerful warriors going at it with their own skills.

It doesn't take any time at all for a Jedi to learn to block blasters. Luke does it in about five minutes.

They just have to open themselves to the possibilities of the Force.

That's true of everything the Jedi do. Simply by understanding that it is possible, they can do it. The path to develop is not training, it's enlightenment.

[lesser_minion]

Despite the explicitly supernatural explanation for their combat prowess, a decent number Jedi combat feats aren't out of reach of a more typical action hero (which is not the same thing as an actual human with actual human capabilities). They'd have an advantage, but they wouldn't be overwhelmingly superior to anything else.

Star Wars blasters and lasers don't have the difficult to dodge properties that realistic laser and particle weapons would have (true laser weapons cannot be specifically dodged without advance warning). In fact, you could potentially train a real human to dodge or block such a weapon. As for striking "too fast to react to or even see", I'm no soldier or martial artist, but isn't that pretty much the norm for human beings who are trying to kill each other?

[Fyraltari]

However, an argument could be made that since its a skill that takes years of practice and training to develop, its much like anything
It isn't, Anakin's ability to do this is one of the things Qui-Gon uses to convince Shmi he is force-sensitive.
Generally speaking it doesn't seem that force power are in any way hard to learn to use. I am pretty sure all those years of Jedi training are about controlling your emotions and resisiting the Dark Side.

I remember reading on Wookieepedia that droideka shields were weakest at the very top (and bottom?) and that they jedi could penetrate the shield in that particular spot.
Which is, unfortunately, the least helpful answer, as it means that we would have to compare the relative strength of droideka shields to force effects.
Apparently not. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di1SeBABVyc)
(Got that by googling "Clone Wars Droideka", maybe there's some context I'm missing).

[Keltest]

It isn't, Anakin's ability to do this is one of the things Qui-Gon uses to convince Shmi he is force-sensitive.
Generally speaking it doesn't seem that force power are in any way hard to learn to use. I am pretty sure all those years of Jedi training are about controlling your emotions and resisiting the Dark Side.

Apparently not. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di1SeBABVyc)
(Got that by googling "Clone Wars Droideka", maybe there's some context I'm missing).

The jedi training allows you to do things like actively predict the future and makes your precognition much more consistent. Luke struggled with blaster deflection at first, remember, so it isn't just an automatic all or nothing skill set.

[Peelee]

It isn't, Anakin's ability to do this is one of the things Qui-Gon uses to convince Shmi he is force-sensitive.
Generally speaking it doesn't seem that force power are in any way hard to learn to use.

To use, not necessarily. To control, absolutely. Yoda openly said as much while training Luke.

[Blackhawk748]

It isn't, Anakin's ability to do this is one of the things Qui-Gon uses to convince Shmi he is force-sensitive.
Generally speaking it doesn't seem that force power are in any way hard to learn to use. I am pretty sure all those years of Jedi training are about controlling your emotions and resisiting the Dark Side.

Anakin is also the Chosen One (aka a Force Savant) so hes a bad comparison. Luke is a better one and it took him years to get to where he was at Empire. True he could block a few bolts, but that was in a safe training environment, not the middle of battle.

[Fyraltari]

Anakin is also the Chosen One (aka a Force Savant) so hes a bad comparison. Luke is a better one and it took him years to get to where he was at Empire. True he could block a few bolts, but that was in a safe training environment, not the middle of battle.

But no-one reacts to that ability like it's unusual to see at in child like Anakin.

[Rynjin]

The true answer: yes, if the Jedi makes a sufficiently high Sunder check.

[Strigon]

Apparently not. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di1SeBABVyc)
(Got that by googling "Clone Wars Droideka", maybe there's some context I'm missing).

(Shrugs)
It was probably EU. Plus, depending on the exact speed the shields activate, they could be susceptible to lightsabers.

[Blackhawk748]

In TCW slower moving objects can pass through Droideka shields. This is how they deal with them on Onderon, they roll Thermal Detonators through them.

[Traab]

It isn't, Anakin's ability to do this is one of the things Qui-Gon uses to convince Shmi he is force-sensitive.
Generally speaking it doesn't seem that force power are in any way hard to learn to use. I am pretty sure all those years of Jedi training are about controlling your emotions and resisiting the Dark Side.

Apparently not. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di1SeBABVyc)
(Got that by googling "Clone Wars Droideka", maybe there's some context I'm missing).

Anakins ability to drive a freaking pod racer better than any other human is what was used, not his blaster dodging ability. And as was said, luke didnt just start deflecting shots like a master, and being able to do what amounts to a meditative exercise under controlled conditions and still not be excellent at it doesnt imply that younglings can go out and deflect energy blasts when they are 5. Here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X69NCLxwLEY) is the film clip. We have no time frame for how long they were traveling from tattoine to alderaan but they arrived within 2 minutes of this practice session. That means its highly doubtful it was their first one. And he was still getting clipped even while being able to see, while against a single target he knows is there and is watching closely. That they can do it a little isnt unreasonable, but to compare it to true masters of the craft is a bit silly.

[Fyraltari]

Anakins ability to drive a freaking pod racer better than any other human is what was used, not his blaster dodging ability.

1) Not "better than any other human". The only human.
2) He can dothat because of his "Jedi reflexes" ie the same thing they use toparry blaster bolts: precognition.

Clip (https://youtu.be/cslxrEqlZBc?t=33).

[Traab]

1) Not "better than any other human". The only human.
2) He can dothat because of his "Jedi reflexes" ie the same thing they use toparry blaster bolts: precognition.

Clip (https://youtu.be/cslxrEqlZBc?t=33).

Yeah, I get that, but my point is, he isnt deflecting blaster fire, he is avoiding collisions in high speed car chases. And even then he doesnt always do it. He crashed the last pod race before that one due to NOT being able to avoid his opponent attacking his pod. So even if he has a very basic level of precognition, its nothing like what actual jedi are doing.

[GloatingSwine]

We have no time frame for how long they were traveling from tattoine to alderaan but they arrived within 2 minutes of this practice session. That means its highly doubtful it was their first one. And he was still getting clipped even while being able to see, while against a single target he knows is there and is watching closely. That they can do it a little isnt unreasonable, but to compare it to true masters of the craft is a bit silly.

Nothing supports an interpretation of the journey taking much longer than we see on screen, travel times in Star Wars are consistently very very fast.

Luke was failing before he opened himself to the force, when he was trying to use his eyes and reflexes, and when he did so he immediately began succeeding.

Similarly on Dagobah lesson 1 from Yoda was "lift tiny pebble" and lesson 2 was "lift X-Wing", the point being that once you can lift anything with the Force you can lift anything with the Force, and only a lack of enlightenment (not believing it was possible) prevented Luke from succeeding at lesson 2.

[Knaight]

The obvious answer here is "it depends". There's enough vagueness in the question to allow for a lot of variability, from "magic sword" representing a truly huge range of different items to "D&D like setting" being pretty vague, to even "lightsaber" being weirdly poorly defined for being a specific item in one specific series, given the giant mess that is Star Wars canon. You might as well ask if a metal weight could break a block of ice by dropping on top of it, a question that includes both dropping a bar bell on the north pole to try and break that ice sheet and orbital dropping a tungsten rod on an ice cube.

That said, this can at least be poked at a bit. First, assumptions - "D&D like setting" refers to the fiction side only, where rules mean very little. Single defined attacks, the whole question of the existence of parries, specific damages, and other things mentioned in this thread are going to be completely ignored for this approach. "D&D like setting" is also being interpreted as Greyhawk/FR/Mystara/Golarion and various other subtly different clone settings like them, as opposed to digging into the weirder end. "Star Wars" is going to be restricted to the original series and no supplemental material, mostly because that's where the light saber was really established in the public consciousness.

Given these restrictions, the answer is still "it depends". The lightsaber is pretty well established as some sort of short controlled beam that cuts through most everything very well, and that operates based largely on light and heat in some way. The structural metal of the sword is going to do essentially nothing to protect it (unless AT-AT armor, our one good reference point, is much thinner than it should be) - so it comes down to the magic.

In setting, magic swords range from comparatively minor items that are tougher than a normal sword but still very breakable to artifacts with very specific break conditions. The enhanced normal sword is probably going down quickly, the artifact is likely fine. Then there's the matter of specific enchantments which would confer lightsaber resistance.

First things first - lightsabers are definitely not living matter. Brilliant energy swords are thus roughly comparable to them, except they pass right through them. This is less a counter and more an excellent way to insure that everyone in a fight gets killed in it, but it is at least unbreakable. Enchanted ice weapons also seem like they might have a better than normal chance of working effectively due to countering the lightsaber directly, while enchanted flame weapons could work in the opposite way, strengthened against lightsabers because they have to be to handle their own native conditions.

Then there's material - while the idea of lightsaber resistant materials doesn't really show up in the OT, there are references here and there. Vader wears armor while coming from a lightsaber heavy background, Boba Fett wears armor to hunt down a jedi, the term "jedi knight" is positioned to evoke imagery of armor back in the glory days, before the prequels turned Obi-Wan's useful desert robe he wore while in the desert and Luke's fairly normal clothing he wore under normal conditions into two parts of the Jedi uniform. Adamantine being lightsaber resistant isn't particularly ridiculous, and there are a whole host of exotic materials that also seem like they could be an exception.

Then there's the idea of a lightsaber as a marker of narrative importance and Star Wars as a setting that runs on narrative tropes. Anyone using a lightsaber is a major character, and can cut through minor characters and obstacles with ease, in this case very literally. Them doing that with other major characters undercuts the cinematic feel, and it comes down to the wielder of the magic sword. This thus makes it more a matter of the genre of the D&D-like setting than anything else. The dungeon crawling tomb looter who picked up a magic sword somewhere is toast, and their magic sword gets cut clean through in a neat demonstration of how little they matter. The chosen one with a magic sword that itself has plot significance is just fine.

[Doorhandle]

The dungeon crawling tomb looter who picked up a magic sword somewhere is toast, and their magic sword gets cut clean through in a neat demonstration of how little they matter. The chosen one with a magic sword that itself has plot significance is just fine.

Yikes..brutal. Could be a good way to rewrite any ordinary "chosen one" story into something Grimdark: put it from the perspective of someone with no special destiny.


I remember reading on Wookieepedia that droideka shields were weakest at the very top (and bottom?) and that they jedi could penetrate the shield in that particular spot.
Which is, unfortunately, the least helpful answer, as it means that we would have to compare the relative strength of droideka shields to force effects.

It's not perfect, but it suggests that a weapon or shield of pure force (like a Wall of Force, say, ) would be enough to protect the wielder until the jedi found a weak spot, assuming one exists.

[J-H]

Drizzt dodge and uses his other sword to stab Kylo, because the choreography in TLJ was abominable.

I saw TLJ on Saturday. It wasn't worth the $1.75 from Redbox. My wife quit 20 minutes before the end of the movie. I'd rather watch The Phantom Menace twice than TLJ again.

[Peelee]

Drizzt dodge and uses his other sword to stab Kylo, because the choreography in TLJ was abominable.

I saw TLJ on Saturday. It wasn't worth the $1.75 from Redbox. My wife quit 20 minutes before the end of the movie. I'd rather watch The Phantom Menace twice than TLJ again.

Watching a Star Wars movie for the fight choreography is like watching a Golden Harvest movie for the plot. Sure, it's there and may even be good, but that's not what gets my butt in the seat.

[Fyraltari]

Yeah, I get that, but my point is, he isnt deflecting blaster fire, he is avoiding collisions in high speed car chases.
But it is the same thing. They use the Force to perceive event before they happen and react accordingly, that said reaction involves pulling a lever on a pod and not moving a lightsaber a few degrees to put it in the path of a blaster bolt doesn't invalidate that.

And even then he doesnt always do it. He crashed the last pod race before that one due to NOT being able to avoid his opponent attacking his pod. So even if he has a very basic level of precognition, its nothing like what actual jedi are doing.

If you think "actual Jedi" never fail to parry blaster shots I suggest you watch Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith again.

[Keltest]

But it is the same thing. They use the Force to perceive event before they happen and react accordingly, that said reaction involves pulling a lever on a pod and not moving a lightsaber a few degrees to put it in the path of a blaster bolt doesn't invalidate that.


If you think "actual Jedi" never fail to parry blaster shots I suggest you watch Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith again.

Theres a difference between missing the deflection and the lightsaber being physically unable to be in the requisite places at the same time.

[Fyraltari]

Theres a difference between missing the deflection and the lightsaber being physically unable to be in the requisite places at the same time.

That wasn't this guy's problem. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvyKkjFVoBY)

[Knaight]

Yikes..brutal. Could be a good way to rewrite any ordinary "chosen one" story into something Grimdark: put it from the perspective of someone with no special destiny.

When I wrote that I was thinking of it in the sense of how Star Wars interacts with two entirely different fantasy settings. Reframing it as two instances in the same setting where that's the explicit in-setting logic behind it really does lend itself well to grimdark.

[Traab]

But it is the same thing. They use the Force to perceive event before they happen and react accordingly, that said reaction involves pulling a lever on a pod and not moving a lightsaber a few degrees to put it in the path of a blaster bolt doesn't invalidate that.


If you think "actual Jedi" never fail to parry blaster shots I suggest you watch Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith again.

And there is still a difference between dodging bullets and dodging cars. For example, I can actually do one of them. Especially while driving one myself.

[Fyraltari]

And there is still a difference between dodging bullets and dodging cars. For example, I can actually do one of them. Especially while driving one myself.

Good point.

[TeChameleon]

Honestly? Barring an "I find your lack of faith... disturbing." scene, narratively speaking, I'd expect a generic +1 Magic Sword to resist one more whack with a lightsabre (barring blade locks or whatever) than its non-magical equivalent. So, pretty much one whack. The reason being, it must be shown that even a generic magic item is 'more special' than a non-magical item of the same type.

All that being said, I've never really understood how lightsabre swordfights worked, exactly. You can't exactly fence with laser beams or plasma streams, they don't offer any discernable resistance to one another. I always sort of assumed that it was the magnetic bottles containing the plasma that were locking together and preventing the lightsabre blades from passing through one another, but that raises its own problems :smallconfused:

[Fyraltari]

Honestly? Barring an "I find your lack of faith... disturbing." scene, narratively speaking, I'd expect a generic +1 Magic Sword to resist one more whack with a lightsabre (barring blade locks or whatever) than its non-magical equivalent. So, pretty much one whack. The reason being, it must be shown that even a generic magic item is 'more special' than a non-magical item of the same type.

All that being said, I've never really understood how lightsabre swordfights worked, exactly. You can't exactly fence with laser beams or plasma streams, they don't offer any discernable resistance to one another. I always sort of assumed that it was the magnetic bottles containing the plasma that were locking together and preventing the lightsabre blades from passing through one another, but that raises its own problems :smallconfused:

Are you trying to analyse the science of Star Wars? Beware, that way lies madness.

[TeChameleon]

Are you trying to analyse the science of Star Wars? Beware, that way lies madness.

Eh, I went crazy years ago :smalltongue:

[137beth]

The first time I played the final boss of Legend of Zelda: Twighlight Princess, I thought Ganondorf's sword (the Sword of the Six Sages (https://zelda.gamepedia.com/Sword_of_the_Six_Sages)) looked kind of like a lightsaber. Looking at a video of the boss battle on Youtube now, the resembles isn't as close as I remember it being.

So, if my 2006-mind is to be believed, then the Master Sword and a Lightsaber can be used against each other without either of them breaking.