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View Full Version : Another possible character build idea - Swashbuckler/Battlemaster...



samcifer
2018-05-26, 04:04 PM
So after discovering that making a barbarian caster would be tricky, I considered possible alternatives. My reason for avoiding playing plain melee/archer characters is that just shooting/slashing/stabbing is to me a rather boring way to approach combat whereas being a caster lets you do many different things.

Battlemaster is a good way to break the monotony by at least giving me a few different extra effects to add to my attacks. Rogue seems like the best way to add extra damage to my attacks without needing to burn spell slots, and a Swashbuckler seems to give the best way, imo, to virtually guarantee that I can add my sneak attack on every turn. Before anyone compares multiple attacks to SA, I'm already aware that I can only use SA once per turn.

Here's what I'm thinking for the character:

He'd possibly start at lv. 10 (maybe higher, depending on what level my wizard reaches before he dies) and we can have the option to purchase master work weapons for gold that grant a +1-3 to attack and/or hit (you have to pay for each effect separately, but can combine them for, say, a +3 to hit and +2 dmg rapier). I was thinking of starting as a Rogue for the skill proficiency boosts, primarily to stealth) and go to lv. 4 for the ASI, then swap to Battlemaster and go to lv. 6 for another 2 ASIs, giving me three to start with. The reason is because if I roll crud for stat rolls, I can boost them up and if I don't need them as much, I can take a feat or two. If he starts at lv. 11, I'll go Rogue 4 / Fighter 7 and if higher, go up more levels in Rogue to up my SA damage.

As far as race, I'm torn between 3 choices.

Variant Human would offer flexible stat bonuses, the free feat snd an extra skill.

Half-Orc would offer some interesting side benefits in dark vision and the ability to stave off death, but the one that really intrigues me is:

Dragonborn because of the racial feat in XGtE that gives them the Mage Armor effect without needing a spell slot as well as +1 CON or CHA. With max DEX and a shield, I can easily get 20AC (higher if I had a magical shield and a magical item to boost my AC more.) If I get good enough stats, I'd be tempted to go this route as a Dragonborn rogue/fighter could be fun. Also, there's an idea I have that the answer to a question I have blow would determine if I go with or not...

As for not going Elf, Half-Elf, etc. is because the DM allows non-caster characters (including racially-granted spells) the ability to become either a werewolf or a vampire and I'd like to become a werewolf as they get another +1 AC. Because of magic rendering one immune to lycanthropy, I'd be tempted to avoid a casting race to avoid preventing this possibility. Plus I REALLY love werewolves! :)

Now to the question... Sneak Attack requires that you attack with a finesse weapon, but finesse weapons can be used to make attack rolls using wither DEX or STR. As long as the weapon I attack with is a finesse weapon, can I use the STR stat for my attack roll and still apply the SA damage if I hit?

samcifer
2018-05-26, 04:13 PM
As for maneuvers, I was thinking of going Feinting Attack, Maneuvering attack, Precision Attack, Riposte, and Trip Attack. Other maneuvers I've considered using are Disarming Attack and Pushing Attack (mainly depending on environment as well as the answer to my question above).

Unoriginal
2018-05-26, 04:17 PM
As long as the weapon I attack with is a finesse weapon, can I use the STR stat for my attack roll and still apply the SA damage if I hit?

Yes. As long as it's a Finesse weapon, you can use any stat for your Sneak Attack.

samcifer
2018-05-26, 04:31 PM
Yes. As long as it's a Finesse weapon, you can use any stat for your Sneak Attack.

Cool. Because of that, what if I took 3 levels of bear Totem Barbarian for a bit of extra damage as well as all the delicious resistances which would make me very hard to kill, esp. if I have high AC and lots of HP thanks to a decent con mod (+3 or higher) as well as the Toughness feat I'd really love to have...

Seriously, during the last session, we were attacked in our sleep by hobgoblins who got a 27 on their attack rolls and we were all taking hits. My Shield spell was useless because I had an AC of 16 (thanks to one level of Draconic sorc and a +3 DEX mod) and the dm was getting 21 or above most of the time when the HGs attacked us. We won the fight and no one died (tho the other wizard got down to 3 hp before the end because he has almost no AC... I think it's 12 for him and he keeps forgetting to cast Mage Armor).

Because of this, I think high HP as well as high AC hare needed and resistances would be very helpful.

If I did this, I'd go Swashbuckler Rogue 1 / BM Fighter 7 / Bear Totem Barbarian 3 / Rogue X.

bid
2018-05-26, 04:57 PM
If I did this, I'd go Swashbuckler Rogue 1 / BM Fighter 7 / Bear Totem Barbarian 3 / Rogue X.
You still need to rage before you get resistance.
The bigger problem is how MAD this becomes.
I pretty much know you won't roll well enough to get 3 stats at 14+ after racials.


You can dragonborn barbarogue 5/5 with 16 14 12 8 12 14 for a +4 init, which is not as good as a pure rogue but barb 7 gives you advantage.
Or you can halfling BM/rogue 5/5 with 10 16 14 10 12 14 for a +5 init which will improve to +7 with Dex20, a pretty SAD build.
And since you start at level 10, you can buman 15 14 14 10 13 14 for Str18/Wis14 after 2 ASI.


Triclassing doesn't give you much for the loss of 2d6 SA.

Unoriginal
2018-05-26, 05:02 PM
You can't be a Swashbuckler with only one level in Rogue.

samcifer
2018-05-26, 05:18 PM
You can't be a Swashbuckler with only one level in Rogue.

Well I could do DB 3 / BM 6 / BT Barb and get to Barb 3, then go back to rogue for the rest. Remeber, I'd be starting this character at lv. 10 or higher.

djreynolds
2018-05-27, 06:23 AM
Well I could do DB 3 / BM 6 / BT Barb and get to Barb 3, then go back to rogue for the rest. Remeber, I'd be starting this character at lv. 10 or higher.

If you go stealthy rogue, I prefer to have darkvision

If you grab extra attack, just grab it from 1 class

5 levels of rogue nets you uncanny dodge

I would just go, 5 swashbuckler/5 battlemaster... this way you have 2 chances to land your sneak attack, you still have precision and other maneuvers use for other stuff also

I would end up going 6 battlemaster/ 14 swashbuckler, pretty solid build

samcifer
2018-05-27, 10:08 AM
If you go stealthy rogue, I prefer to have darkvision

If you grab extra attack, just grab it from 1 class

5 levels of rogue nets you uncanny dodge

I would just go, 5 swashbuckler/5 battlemaster... this way you have 2 chances to land your sneak attack, you still have precision and other maneuvers use for other stuff also

I would end up going 6 battlemaster/ 14 swashbuckler, pretty solid build

Adding in barbarian is about the resistances while raging. As a Bear Totem Barb I can take half damage from almost everything and add in a small extra bit of damage. If I also go Duelist for my fighting style, that'd be just that much more damage per hit.

djreynolds
2018-05-27, 11:45 AM
Adding in barbarian is about the resistances while raging. As a Bear Totem Barb I can take half damage from almost everything and add in a small extra bit of damage. If I also go Duelist for my fighting style, that'd be just that much more damage per hit.

Well you will need to fight strength based to get the rage damage, which is fine, but your ranged attacks could take a "hit" if you do not pump up dexterity

However, archery style is +2 and with a 14 in dexterity... its like having an 18 with a bow

So you could begin fighter and take archery style, but in melee dual wield scimitars, shortswords, and daggers and can do so with strength and still get your sneak attack

Fighter 1- archery style +2
Barbarian 1
Barbarian 2- rage... you can wait for bear totem as you shouldn't be seeing any fireballs
rogue 1
rogue 2
rogue 3
rogue 4 ASI
barbarian 3-totem take bear
barbarian 4 ASI
barbarian 5 extra attack
barbarian 6- totem take tiger for 2 skills

Yeah stick with barbarian and just sprinkle in 3 of battlemaster

samcifer
2018-05-27, 12:14 PM
Well you will need to fight strength based to get the rage damage, which is fine, but your ranged attacks could take a "hit" if you do not pump up dexterity

However, archery style is +2 and with a 14 in dexterity... its like having an 18 with a bow

So you could begin fighter and take archery style, but in melee dual wield scimitars, shortswords, and daggers and can do so with strength and still get your sneak attack

Fighter 1- archery style +2
Barbarian 1
Barbarian 2- rage... you can wait for bear totem as you shouldn't be seeing any fireballs
rogue 1
rogue 2
rogue 3
rogue 4 ASI
barbarian 3-totem take bear
barbarian 4 ASI
barbarian 5 extra attack
barbarian 6- totem take tiger for 2 skills

Yeah stick with barbarian and just sprinkle in 3 of battlemaster

I've heard that dual wielding is very weak in this game. I was considering Archery and Dueling as possible fighting styles.