.Hack TTRPG: How would you do it?

[SwordChucks]

I really liked the .hack PS2 games (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.hack_(video_game_series)) and I'd like to try to make or find a TTRPG based on them.

At minimum, each player would need two characters: one a "real-life" character, and the other would be the previous character's The World character. For simplicity I'll call those the "PC" and the "Avatar".

The Avatar wouldn't be too hard to come up with rules for as they are statted in the games. The hard part, for me at least, would be making the rules for the PCs in the "real world" and their investigations into what's happening in The World.

So, has anyone had an experience with a game like this? What kind of stats would a PC need?

[lightningcat]

I am completely unfamiliar with the series, so just tell me if I am barking up the wrong tree.

There are two ways to play a game-within-a-game that I know of. The first, is using a subsystem for the less used realm. This is what most Cyberpunk style games do for hacking. The Matrix in Shadowrun is possibly the best example I can think of. Every system I can think of uses the "real world" as the default, and the Avatar-space as the less used part.

The second version, you use two separate game systems: one for the primary game, and a different system for the secondary game. I would say use a simpler system for the secondary part of the game. For example, if the primary game is set in a MMO, then you could use D&D 4e for the Avatar part. While using FATE for the dealing with the "real world" part of the game. Not saying these are the best choices, just ones available. If going this route, choose the system that best fits the primary setting first, as it is the more important part of the game.


Although, what would the PCs do outside the MMO? How would they interact? And why would they do so?

[SwordChucks]

I agree. I think it would need two systems to work the way I'm seeing it. The "real-world" would likely be the less played of the two though.


Although, what would the PCs do outside the MMO? How would they interact? And why would they do so?

The .Hack games and anime didn't really do much outside of The World, but I think it could be a good area for investigative play. In the series things that happened inside of the game affected the outside world and some things learned by the players in the real world gave them clues on where to go in the MMO. The PCs may never actually meet one another in the real world as they can come from different walks of life. The main character of the .Hack games was a middle schooler, while another was a pregnant housewife, and another was actually three girls playing the same avatar.

Any ideas relating to how to make the real world more integral to the overall TTRPG would help me a lot.

[Mechalich]

I second the two different systems setup. For .hack there's really no correlation between the skills of the real-world character and the in-game avatar (this would be different if you were modeling SAO or Persona), so you don't want them to have any effect on each other. Use something extremely bare-bones for the real world, whether FATE or even just freeforming most scenes if all the characters do is talk to each other and surf the web, and keep the tactical game confined to the in-game environment.

[SwordChucks]

I'd like there to be some crunch to the real world aspect. I don't think any of my real life (real-real-life?) players would want to play it completely freeform.

I guess my question boils down to: Are there any simple investigative RPG systems that would lend themselves to this kind of game, and if not what would you suggest?

Both of you have mentioned FATE, and while I've read it I haven't gotten to play it. In your experience how well does it work for investigations and potentially roleplaying a B&E?

[Poiuytrewq]

Make all the players study in the same high school. Make one of tge classmates do something bad. Make the players investigate why thst classmate did that thing both irl and online.

[SwordChucks]

Make all the players study in the same high school. Make one of tge classmates do something bad. Make the players investigate why thst classmate did that thing both irl and online.

That's more of a plot than a system, but thank you all the same.

[Florian]

I guess my question boils down to: Are there any simple investigative RPG systems that would lend themselves to this kind of game, and if not what would you suggest?

The Gumshoe system(s) are actually pretty good for investigative games, but they work radically different than more traditional systems, like any version of D&D or SaWo.

[Drascin]

The question here is, what mood are you going for, with regards to the "in" and "out" parts? Because the mood for both the "ingame" and "outgame" bits in .Hack//SIGN are entirely different from the feel in the outgame of .Hack//Liminality and the ingame of .Hack//Legend of Twilight is way more lighthearted than either, and even in the videogames, the first .Hack series has an entirely different tone to .Hack/G.U.

SIGN is basically a story about people and coming to terms with yourself and others, with the mmo stabbings being way more secondary, and so for that I would recommend a system big on interpersonal mechanics that facilitates drama and character growth (I'm half wondering if you couldn't hack Chuubo's Marvelous Wish Granting Engine "personal arcs" structure into some FATE for this, actually). Liminality is a detective story, so the aforementioned Gumshoe might work. The videogames give far more importance to the ingame than the outgame, and the ingame is basically a long-term mystery dungeon exploration, so I'd put the bulk of the rules on the ingame side, and go for some offshoots of D&D-style fantasy rpgs (which could work with some reskinning, because the World seems big on specific discrete abilities and tactical usage) - and leave the outgame largely freeform.

[SwordChucks]

The question here is, what mood are you going for, with regards to the "in" and "out" parts? Because the mood for both the "ingame" and "outgame" bits in .Hack//SIGN are entirely different from the feel in the outgame of .Hack//Liminality and the ingame of .Hack//Legend of Twilight is way more lighthearted than either, and even in the videogames, the first .Hack series has an entirely different tone to .Hack/G.U.

SIGN is basically a story about people and coming to terms with yourself and others, with the mmo stabbings being way more secondary, and so for that I would recommend a system big on interpersonal mechanics that facilitates drama and character growth (I'm half wondering if you couldn't hack Chuubo's Marvelous Wish Granting Engine "personal arcs" structure into some FATE for this, actually). Liminality is a detective story, so the aforementioned Gumshoe might work. The videogames give far more importance to the ingame than the outgame, and the ingame is basically a long-term mystery dungeon exploration, so I'd put the bulk of the rules on the ingame side, and go for some offshoots of D&D-style fantasy rpgs (which could work with some reskinning, because the World seems big on specific discrete abilities and tactical usage) - and leave the outgame largely freeform.

That's a good point. There are a lot of different .Hack stories now and I didn't specify. I really liked the more oppressive atmosphere of the .Hack//Infection series and .Hack//Liminality. I liked that the characters in those kept logging in even though not doing so was likely in their best interests. The mystery and the possibility of helping their comatose friends kept them coming back and I think that would work better for a TTRPG.

[Drascin]

So, if I'm reading you right, the idea is basicallly mixing the "outgame" of Liminality, with investigations and coverups and the ocassional breaking and entering, with Infection's "ingame"

Then yeah, it's going to have to be two systems. For the out of game side, you want something investigative but which doesn't take a lot of mechanical power. Maybe some simplified version of Gumshoe. I've heard good things about Bubblegumshoe, and that one already expects your characters to be teenagers, which are pretty much all the .hack protags that don't get shoved in a fridge :P. Never tried it, though, so can't tell you a lot.

For the ingame part, if you want to play The World as a game, you want something fairly mechanistical, where management of resources and positioning are important, since the World's interface seems extremely combat-primary and the combat is very much about managing HP and MP and where everyone is... hm. I might actually consider D&D 4th edition, here. It works off dailies and scenes instead of MP but I think you could get the feel through pretty okay. And adding various limited datahack tricks is as simple as giving people access to specific 1/encounter abilities you homebrew yourself.

[Rakaydos]

It's not out yet, but there's a game being designed with .hack, SAO, and the other "Real person in an MMO" shows in mind:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sanguine/vital-hearts-isekai-tabletop-role-play-in-augmente?ref=426318&token=ecc16bf2

I'm a fan of the companies other systems, and when its out I'll give it a shot.

[SwordChucks]

Thank you for that. It's nice to see someone working on exactly the type of game I'm looking for.

[Mordaedil]

I'd drop all of the physically rolled abilities of the characters, but keep the mental stats that aren't just the characters casting stats and use them as the only tangible thing for the real world aspect. Consider how hacking works in Shadowrun, is how real life should be to a game taking place in .Hack.

Physically, the players of a netgame aren't going to be the most physically diverse bunch, not enough to where it matters how strong they are. Assume subpar compared to the normal average if anything.