Bel. Remember him?

[Ryblackadder]

Ever have that where you grow attached to a character that’s really hard to find information about? That’s me and my good buddy Bel. While it is sad that he didn’t get stats in Tome of Foes I’m just happy he got mentioned at all. He would make for a great boss though I think and while not as powerful as Zariel I think he could he just as interesting. In a way he’s even inspiring. He started out as a Lemur and became the ruler of the first layer of hell... for a while. And while yes he wasn’t exactly popular all the time he got the job done. So if he was made into a monster what traits do you think he should have? What should his CR be? Should he be very similar to the pit fiends since he is technically a very large pit fiend himself or do you think he’s ascended beyond that some? I’m curious if there any other Bel fans out there with opinions on this.

[Unoriginal]

I'm not a Bel fan myself, though I don't hate him either.

While he's competent, it's made pretty clear both by his schemes and his form as a Duke of Hell that he lacks what it takes to be truly impressive, notably imagination.

I mean, after centuries of hard work he becomes an Archdevil, acquiring an unique form and powers that finally correspond to his personality, what he truly is inside... And he's a Pit Fiend, but bigger. And then after even more work he finally get a lucky break to exploit and overthrow his boss... and he has to keep her alive and absorb her power regularly by eating partsof her body just to maintain his hold on the layer.


He's not a bad character, but to me he always felt like a mid-ranking bad guy from a Saturday Morning Cartoon, in an episode where said mid-ranking bad guy found himself in charge of the baddie faction after all the top dogs are away/presumed dead and it's shown how he can't handle it, only for the leader to show up again and reestablish order.


That being said, he's still a Duke of Hell, and while not as martial as his boss, he's still competent,so I'd say CR 20-21 (other examples of Dukes who *could* legitimately rule a layer on their own but don't are CR 21, and Bel is nearly that good).

In term of game stats, I'd go for simple: as the game implies, he's a Pit Fiend, but bigger.

Huge size (and the resulting increased damages), more HPs, attack bonus fitting for his CR, proficiency in a few skills, a couple of upgraded spells compared to the Pit Fiend's one of those Commander-type action that let allies do more things in their round, and Legandary actions to attack or idea the Commander-style one.

That's my suggestion, in any case.

[Envyus]

Actually Bel is not a pit fiend but bigger. He is actually just a Pit Fiend. When he became a Archduke his appearance slightly changed from the Pit Fiend baseline. (Like Hutijin.) But he was still Pit Fiend sized with mostly Pit Fiend abilities.

[Unoriginal]

Actually Bel is not a pit fiend but bigger. He is actually just a Pit Fiend. When he became a Archduke his appearance slightly changed from the Pit Fiend baseline. (Like Hutijin.) But he was still Pit Fiend sized with mostly Pit Fiend abilities.

Weird, I was sure he was Balor-sized.

Nevermind, then. Boosting his HPs and giving him a Commander-style action and Legendary Actions should be enough.

[Envyus]

Weird, I was sure he was Balor-sized.

Nevermind, then. Boosting his HPs and giving him a Commander-style action and Legendary Actions should be enough.

Copying Hutijin and changing some spells and abilities would also work. Like replacing the Mace with his flaming sword, and making him have an fear aura effect from the screaming angel heads that make up his belt. (Maybe stunned while frightened to make it different from the Pit Fiend baseline.)

Other then that yeah a commander style action.

[Unoriginal]

Copying Hutijin and changing some spells and abilities would also work. Like replacing the Mace with his flaming sword, and making him have an fear aura effect from the screaming angel heads that make up his belt. (Maybe stunned while frightened to make it different from the Pit Fiend baseline.)

Other then that yeah a commander style action.

Dunno, Hutijin is a cut stronger and more competent than Pit Fiends, as he leads two companies of them, and he actually has his Archduke's favor.

[Kane0]

He's not a bad character, but to me he always felt like a mid-ranking bad guy from a Saturday Morning Cartoon, in an episode where said mid-ranking bad guy found himself in charge of the baddie faction after all the top dogs are away/presumed dead and it's shown how he can't handle it, only for the leader to show up again and reestablish order.


So he’s like the Starscream of Baator? For some reason I find that both very funny and very apt.

That said I always figured Meph to be the Starscream.

[Unoriginal]

So he’s like the Starscream of Baator? For some reason I find that both very funny and very apt.

That said I always figured Meph to be the Starscream.

Nah, he's more like, I don't know, Scourge? Or maybe Breakdown?

Starscream generally can handle being in charge of the Decepticons pretty well. At least when he doesn't let his ego get in the way (but Megatron got the same issue, so...). He's closer to Baalzebub, or maybe Glasya in his most competent moments.


In 5e Mephistopheles is more like Shockwave.

[MaxWilson]

You'd definitely want to give him regeneration. Classically, most Baatezu ("devils") had regeneration of some sort to offset the Tanar'ri's greater numbers, but in 5E only the dukes seem to have it. Still, *all* of the dukes have it, so Bel ought to have it to fit in.

[Envyus]

To be exact what Bel's deal was is that he deposed Zariel at a moment of weakness. And claimed her position as Lord of Avernus. He was originally prepared to defend himself from invaders for the title but that never happened and Asmodeus gave him lordship over Avernus and made him commanding general of the blood war. As a result of being focused on the blood war he has little time for Hell's politics, nether the less he got a working relationship with Tiamat going and succeeded in getting an alliance with her.

With 5e Bel fell out of favor and Zariel replaced him again. The reason for it seems to be that Asmodeus tired of his approach of logistics and defensive tactics, his building of forts and castles on the layers (Which also led to cities and trade posts.) Bel was stated to believe that victory against the Demons was impossible and that they could only be contained at most. Which he is why he favored those defensive tactics and slowly building more forts and outposts towards Demon territory.

Asmodeus appears to have felt he was too slow and so put Zariel back in charge. As her mentality is more offense minded with reckless maneuvers, berserk fury and constant attacks with herself leading the offensives. Bel himself as one of her advisers now does not discourage her. Believing she will overextend and face a massive defeat one day that will lead to her removel and him being in charge again.

[Spacehamster]

Bel as in Belaphoss?

[Envyus]

Bel as in Belaphoss?

No Bel as in Bel, Bele, Belberith, Beelzephon, Beliel, etc.

[Unoriginal]

Bel/Baal is a word that meant "Lord".

In D&D it's basically the Fiendish equivalent of "John"

[War_lord]

I didn't remember him, but the fact that he's a glorified Pit Fiend who was named in about 5 minutes is probably why.

[Griswold]

Given that the two most prominent inhabitants of Avernus were the Archduke Bel and Tiamat, I'd argue that someone definitely put some effort into naming of Bel. He's named after the god Bel, from Daniel 14, which generally carries the title Bel and the Dragon.

I thought it was a pretty clever reference, anyway.

[dreast]

Given that the two most prominent inhabitants of Avernus were the Archduke Bel and Tiamat, I'd argue that someone definitely put some effort into naming of Bel. He's named after the god Bel, from Daniel 14, which generally carries the title Bel and the Dragon.

I thought it was a pretty clever reference, anyway.

*gasp*. D&D tricks kids into worshipping Satan! Moral panic! MORAL PANIIIC!