Persisted maximized spells

[Sto]

So, I was wondering if it's possible through any means to have a persisted maximized spell like call lightning or produce flame so that my characters always have the ability to do an exact amount of damage every round.

The problem is I can't find an arcane spell that's 1st or 2nd level that I can do this with, and I'm not exactly sure how Divine Meta Magic works. This is probably the worst use of 8th and 9th level spell slots (this needs Arcane Thesis to work), so let me say this is purely for curiosity.

Thanks!

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Metamagic rod of Maximize Spell?

[Venger]

So, I was wondering if it's possible through any means to have a persisted maximized spell like call lightning or produce flame so that my characters always have the ability to do an exact amount of damage every round.

The problem is I can't find an arcane spell that's 1st or 2nd level that I can do this with, and I'm not exactly sure how Divine Meta Magic works. This is probably the worst use of 8th and 9th level spell slots (this needs Arcane Thesis to work), so let me say this is purely for curiosity.

Thanks!

you can if you can find one that meets the criteria for both feats.

what do you need it to be 1st or 2nd level for?

the way divine metamagic works is:

1)you cast the spell you want to dmm persist
2)you spend 7 turn or rebukes
3) the spell flips on and lasts 24 hours without having its level adjusted

unless you're dmming maximize too, you would need to pay for it normally, but this will open up your selection drastically

[Bad Wolf]

Only one i can think of is Venomfire, but that's a third level spell that requires a natural poison ability.

[Bakkan]

The various ways to mitigate metamagic costs will do it, in particular Divine Metamagic, as you mentioned, Incantatrix, Spelldancing (I believe), the Illumian pseudo-DMM, etc. Instead or in addition you can use feats like Arcane Thesis, Practical Metamagic, Metamagic School Focus, and so forth to reduce the spell level increase. For instance, starting with Maximize (+3 levels) and Persist (+6 levels), Metamagic School Focus brings them down to +2 and +5, Practical Metamagic(Maximize and Persist) brings them to +1 and +4, and Arcane Thesis reduces these to +0 and +3. Thus you can put, say, maximized persisted call lightning in a 6th level slot, assuming you can find a way to cast it spontaneously.

[Nifft]

So, I was wondering if it's possible through any means to have a persisted maximized spell like call lightning or produce flame so that my characters always have the ability to do an exact amount of damage every round.

The problem is I can't find an arcane spell that's 1st or 2nd level that I can do this with, and I'm not exactly sure how Divine Meta Magic works. This is probably the worst use of 8th and 9th level spell slots (this needs Arcane Thesis to work), so let me say this is purely for curiosity.

Thanks!

Call Lightning is a pretty awful spell to persist, since you're limited more by the maximum number of bolts than you are by the duration. Getting up to 10 bolts within a 24-hour period is slightly better than getting them in a 5-to-10-minute period, but not nearly enough better to justify the resource expenditure.

Produce Flame technically reduces its duration every time you make a ranged attack with it, so if you're actually planning to use it every single round for eight hours -- well, you can't. If you were to use it continuously, you'd burn through the 24 hours of duration in ~2 hours.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

This kind of thing is why I like the energy conversion power. Long-term blasting for very little investment. Just charge up by standing in a fire, or manifest energy wall and aim it towards yourself.

Or both. Nothing says you can't do both. Feel free to hold some torches by the wrong ends, too. Or a weapon that deals energy damage.

[death390]

short answer is yes, but it requres a number of hoops

so maximize is +4 and Persist is +6.

DMM(Persist) is basically cast the spell as normal and apply Persist by sacrificing the 7 attempts.

so doing this to an already maximized Call lightning basically means that you use a 7th level spell slot + 7 turn undead uses to get a 18 damage 1/round up to the Caster level number of times (not good use of effect) since it is capped number of uses.

honestly if you just want an at will damage spell the reserve feats are your friend. it isn't a set damage but your dm might allow you to do away with the roll and just do average?
Druids qualify easily for the following 2 feats:
Fiery burst: 5ft radius AoE that does Spell level * spell used to power it fire damage. 30 ft range though. Requires a 2nd level or higher fire spell to be available.
Storm bolt: 20 ft line AoE that does Spell level * spell used to power it electric damage. requires 3rd level minimum.

[Venger]

short answer is yes, but it requres a number of hoops

so maximize is +4 and Persist is +6.

DMM(Persist) is basically cast the spell as normal and apply Persist by sacrificing the 7 attempts.

so doing this to an already maximized Call lightning basically means that you use a 7th level spell slot + 7 turn undead uses to get a 18 damage 1/round up to the Caster level number of times (not good use of effect) since it is capped number of uses.

honestly if you just want an at will damage spell the reserve feats are your friend. it isn't a set damage but your dm might allow you to do away with the roll and just do average?
Druids qualify easily for the following 2 feats:
Fiery burst: 5ft radius AoE that does Spell level * spell used to power it fire damage. 30 ft range though. Requires a 2nd level or higher fire spell to be available.
Storm bolt: 20 ft line AoE that does Spell level * spell used to power it electric damage. requires 3rd level minimum.
solid advice, but maximize is +3, not +4.

[Tytalus]

Call lightning cannot be persisted; it doesn't meet the prerequisites. Maximize Spell doesn't change that.

A good spells to maximize + persist is Ice Axe, for example.

If you only want to maximize + persist a single spell per day, the Sudden Maximize feat helps. Otherwise, a metamagic rod of Maximize is useful.

[Fuzzy McCoy]

While higher than the levels mentioned, if you have some way of cheap metamagic, persisting and maximizing glorious master of the elements would be fun. Sixty damage a shot? Yes please!

[death390]

solid advice, but maximize is +3, not +4.

whoops, i personally avoid metamagic beyond Heighten for the most part. my table tends to the low end of the balance spectrum and i can't bring anything too powerfull AKA more than a basic caster. hell the real caster i want to play is a beguiler Shadowcraft mage using Heighten shenanigans :)

[death390]

Call lightning cannot be persisted; it doesn't meet the prerequisites. Maximize Spell doesn't change that.

A good spells to maximize + persist is Ice Axe, for example.

If you only want to maximize + persist a single spell per day, the Sudden Maximize feat helps. Otherwise, a metamagic rod of Maximize is useful.

hmm completely forgot about the sudden series of metamagics. this can get extra nasty is using those, mind you dispelling would ruin your entire shtick. imagine a empowered persisten sudden empowered sudden maximized spell. (sudden empower says you can stack regular empower on it. the question is, is it additive or multiplicative? i think additive personally but sine multiplicative is less powerfull lets see ice axe with this.)

ice axe empowered persisted sudden empowered sudden maximized
so 24 base + 12 empower + 6 sudden emp + 10 from caster level = 52 pts of flat "weapon" damage? not bad. + it is iterative usable.


i forgot persist had to be fixed range which is why call lightning doesn't work. i simply used mechanics rather than checking viability.

my personal pick for this would be:

Prismatic Blade
Evocation
Level: Prismatic 4, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Area: One blade, created in your hand
Duration: 1/min per level
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: Yes

You create a blade of light in a myriad of rainbow colors in your hand, which you use to attack. Treat attacks made with this blade as touch attacks. For each successful hit with the blade, roll on the table below to randomly determine the effect on the creature struck. You may focus multiple attacks on a single target in a round, rolling for effects and saves of each strike individually.

{table=head]Roll|Color|Effect
1|Red|1d8+1/level (max +15) fire damage
2|Orange|1d10+1/level (max +15) acid damage
3|Yellow|1d12+1/level (max +15) electricity damage
4|Green|poison; 1d6 Con damage (Fort save half)
5|Blue|paralyzed for 2d6 minutes (Will save negates)
6|Indigo|confusion for 2d6 minutes (mind-effecting; Will save negates)
7|Violet|Teleport to a random location (Will save negates)
8|{colsp=2}Struck by two colors; roll twice more, ignoring any “8” results[/table]

but its homebrew from this post: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?245310-quot-The-spell-is-called-quot-Prismatic-Spray-quot-not-quot-Taste-The-Rainbow-quot-quot-(3-5-Domain-PEACH)
i mean the idea of doing iterative attacks with this thing for the whole day is brutal. since it is +75(/100)% maximized effect. that would be

{table=head]Roll|Color|Effect
1|Red|14(16)+1/level (max +15) fire damage
2|Orange|17(20)+1/level (max +15) acid damage
3|Yellow|21(24)+1/level (max +15) electricity damage
4|Green|poison; 10(12) Con damage (Fort save half)
5|Blue|paralyzed for 21(24) minutes (Will save negates)
6|Indigo|confusion for 21(24) minutes (mind-effecting; Will save negates)
7|Violet|Teleport to a random location (Will save negates)
8|{colsp=2}Struck by two colors; roll twice more, ignoring any “8” results[/table]

[Anthrowhale]

Note that DMM[Persist] cannot be applied to arcane spells.

I like DMM[Persist] Darkfire cast with a metamagic rod of maximize spell. According to WBL guidelines, this is viable just after level 8 giving you 24 points of damage as a ranged touch attack. There seems to be some disagreement about iteratives, but my reading is that you get full iteratives on the ranged touch attacks.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Note that DMM[Persist] cannot be applied to arcane spells.Why not? The feat says nothing about arcane or divine, just "spells."

[Nifft]

Why not? The feat says nothing about arcane or divine, just "spells."

Does it not say "divine spell" after you apply the errata?

[Venger]

Note that DMM[Persist] cannot be applied to arcane spells.

I like DMM[Persist] Darkfire cast with a metamagic rod of maximize spell. According to WBL guidelines, this is viable just after level 8 giving you 24 points of damage as a ranged touch attack. There seems to be some disagreement about iteratives, but my reading is that you get full iteratives on the ranged touch attacks.

Sure it can. Just take southern magician or alternative spell source (if allowed) to make them divine.