Sorcerer multiclassing into Warlock: worth it? And when?

[Cicciograna]

Hello friends, I am currently playing a Human Sorcerer for what is de facto my first serious campaign in 5th Edition (after being a long-time 3.5 player).

I was thinking to multiclass to Warlock due to clear synergies between the two classes. My character has a very high Charisma (overall excellent stats, I rolled three 18s in front of the DM), so I would have what it takes to Warlock well.

But is it worth it? I noticed that, in this Edition, Sorcerers have been severely reduced in the number of spells they can cast: I seem to understand that spellcasting and Pact Magic synergize well, if I'm not mistaken, in that I can treat Warlock spells slots as Sorcerer's and vice versa, correct? But then, they would be low level spell slots, of course, whereas the juice is in high level slots.
So is it worth to make this small dip into Warlock? I was thinking to take 3, maximum 4 levels of Warlock, so I don't lose that much in terms of raw spellcasting power.

And if it is indeed worth it, when do you think the best time to multiclass is? I was thinking to reach level 6 or 7 in Sorcerer, then dipping these 3 levels in Warlock and be happy with it. Is that a good spot/too soon/too late (I'm 3rd level now, but just gained a level)?

Thanks!

[Pex]

I'm not saying don't do it, but don't feel you have to.

The main trick to multiclass into warlock is for eventual Quicken Agonizing Eldritch Blast then Agonizing Eldrich Blast again. Force damage is not resisted. Only two creatures in the Monster Manual ignore it - The Helmed Horror is immune to force damage and the Tarrasque is immune to rays.

A Sorcerer can deal significant enough damage on its own. For raw damage there's Fire Bolt. It's also a good idea to take a second attack cantrip because while not every foe you face will be resistant to fire despite the number in the Monster Manual, you'll likely eventually face some in your game so you want another damage type as a back up. If you're a Dragon Sorcerer you add CH modifier to damage at 6th level for the Fire Bolt. It can be Quickened or Twinned.

The other trick to multiclassing warlock is to abuse its spell slots recharge on short rests. The idea is you convert the warlock spell slots to Sorcery points, use them as you will, and get the slots back on a short rest to repeat. Sorcerer has no answer except at 20th level. If that's appealing to you ok, but keep in mind a 2 level warlock dip for Agonizing Eldritch Blast only gives you 2 Sorcery points for its spell slots. Nice, but not as impressive as the idea sounds in my opinion. Still useful. Having played a single class Sorcerer I can say I did not need this. It's prudent to conserve and choose wisely when to use Sorcery points, but with practice you get good mileage out of it to not need a warlock dip.

Then there's "Coffeelock" which abuses certain races not needing to sleep 8 hours and an invocation where you don't sleep at all. There you take successive short rests. You spend Sorcery points for extra spell slots while replenishing your warlock slots to repeat the process. You have lots of spell slots at the expense of not using Sorcery points for metamagic. This is "cheese" your DM may or may not approve. Sorcerer as single class has no response. If this suits your fancy and your DM is ok with it, then go for it if you want.

[MephitBlue]

The first question to ask is why do you want to dip into Warlock? Or what will you get out of taking 3 levels in Warlock that you don't get from being a sorcerer? I'm currently playing a 9th level pure Sorcerer and while it would be nice to have a couple of spell slots that refresh after a short rest, I don't really need them. Also, the 4th and 5th level spells I wouldn't have if I took a dip into Warlock have helped my party survive a couple of fights.

That said, Warlock does synergize well with Sorcerer and gives you a few things you likely don't have as a sorcerer. Pact of the tome along with Book of Ancients Secrets makes you the ultimate ritual caster and gives you some cantrips from any class. It can remove the Mage Armor tax if you are not a Draconic Sorcerer, and you gain access to spells like Hex and the ultimate attack cantrip, Eldritch Blast. Just remember, you can get some of these benefits just by taking a feat instead of dipping into another class.

I'm not against multiclassing, it's just important to weigh what you are giving up to take those levels in another class against what you gain when you think about it.

As for when to take the dip, I would do it at 6th level, so you don't delay getting access to 3rd level spells. Fireball and Lightning Bolt are heavy damage spells you will use for the rest of the game. You want one of them in your arsenal as soon as possible. After that, I would take a 3 level dip in Warlock to get Pact of the Tome and Book of Ancient Secrets.

[Asmotherion]

I'll be completelly direct with you: It's totally worth it.

On your second point, if you go on a pure optimiser's perspective, you only need (Agonising) Eldritch Blast once you hit the Sweet point of Level 5. That said, you don't want to be hungry to start cooking, right? So, you can strart Multiclassing by level 4, have Agonising Blast by level 5, and when you get back to Sorcerer 4 by level 6, you're Multiclassing into the Sweet Level of an ASI/Feat (AKA, not a Dead Level, to make you NOT want to ever look back).

If you ever decide to go back to Warlock, you get a Pact Boon, and a Higher Pact Slot, wich is a win-win situation if you don't intend to go for an other Dip. Why? Because 17 Levels of Sorcerer are more than enough to Grab Wish and the other 9th level spells you may want. Or you may not be going for a full caster, but for a Multiclass, also able to work wonders. For a 3rd level of Warlock (or any other dip/multiclass), I suggest after you gain 3rd level slots as a Sorcerer at the very least... possibly 5th if you're the main Arcane caster of the Group.

[djreynolds]

agonizing and repelling blast are worth for anybody

[PeteNutButter]

Just take two levels in warlock. Either take them at level 4 and 5, so you have a great single target option at level 5 with agonizing blast with two shots. Or take them after sorcerer 5 so you have third level spells. The latter option is better if you need AoE (fireball). Keep the rest in sorcerer so you have plenty of sorcery points.

[Asmotherion]

Just take two levels in warlock. Either take them at level 4 and 5, so you have a great single target option at level 5 with agonizing blast with two shots. Or take them after sorcerer 5 so you have third level spells. The latter option is better if you need AoE (fireball). Keep the rest in sorcerer so you have plenty of sorcery points.

Speaking about a great AoE, Dragon's Breath is pure gold! Haven't fireballed anything since that spell came out.

The only thing that I'd be in a hurry to pick as a 3rd level spell is Counterspell/Dispell Magic. Those things are real life savers/game turners in my experiance.

[Cicciograna]

Okay, just to give you some extra details.

My Sorcerer is a Draconic Bloodline (Fire) character, which will of course focus on Fire-based spells. In-game, my character has a deep connection to dragons, for obvious reasons.

I don't want to be a mere artillery implement, and indeed the reason I'd like to go into Warlock is mainly "cosmetic": I was chiefly interested into acquiring a Familiar via Pact Boon, and specifically a pseudodragon. In addition to this, I was interested into a couple of interesting Incantations, namely Devil's Sight and Eldritch Sight, more for roleplaying reasons than for actual power (even though they seem to me to be solid choices). Also, I looked into draconic-type patrons but did not have any luck here: I was thinking to ask my DM if he could consider Io as a "Great Old One" (even if he doesn't really qualify) to pick the telepathy power.

To be honest, I didn't even think about Eldritch blast and its improvements, intending to rely on Sorcerer spells for damage (and yes, primarily Fire bolt). The idea of having two sources of damage is interesting, though, it could be useful to have a different source for enemies resistant to Fire (although Elemental Adept could solve the problem).

I could totaly avoid going into Warlock, that's true. But I feel this could give me some interesting abilites to complement my spellcasting.

[Pex]

Provided for your campaign you don't need Darkvision continuously forever, you can have the Darkvision spell as a Sorcerer for those times you do need it. Same with Detect Magic. Does your familiar really have to be a pseudodragon? You can take Magic Initiate feat and get Find Familiar that way and pick up a couple of Cantrips. Alternatively there's the Ritual Magic feat and you find the spells you want. If you're a variant human you have either at 1st level. You can get what you want as a single class if not perfectly.

It sounds like I'm biased against multiclassing. Not exactly, but warlock dipping gets talked about so much on these Forums it's nice to be reminded it's not a requirement and single class Sorcerer works fine.

[PeteNutButter]

Okay, just to give you some extra details.

My Sorcerer is a Draconic Bloodline (Fire) character, which will of course focus on Fire-based spells. In-game, my character has a deep connection to dragons, for obvious reasons.

I don't want to be a mere artillery implement, and indeed the reason I'd like to go into Warlock is mainly "cosmetic": I was chiefly interested into acquiring a Familiar via Pact Boon, and specifically a pseudodragon. In addition to this, I was interested into a couple of interesting Incantations, namely Devil's Sight and Eldritch Sight, more for roleplaying reasons than for actual power (even though they seem to me to be solid choices). Also, I looked into draconic-type patrons but did not have any luck here: I was thinking to ask my DM if he could consider Io as a "Great Old One" (even if he doesn't really qualify) to pick the telepathy power.

To be honest, I didn't even think about Eldritch blast and its improvements, intending to rely on Sorcerer spells for damage (and yes, primarily Fire bolt). The idea of having two sources of damage is interesting, though, it could be useful to have a different source for enemies resistant to Fire (although Elemental Adept could solve the problem).

I could totaly avoid going into Warlock, that's true. But I feel this could give me some interesting abilites to complement my spellcasting.

The primary mechanical reason for the warlock dip is Eldritch Blast with agonizing blast. It gives you as many shots as a single classed fighter gets attacks which you can double with quicken. It’s a class feature disguised as a cantrip.

If you don’t plan on doing that you will probably end up weaker than a single classed sorcerer. But if it’s essential to your build idea, go for it.

[Cicciograna]

The primary mechanical reason for the warlock dip is Eldritch Blast with agonizing blast. It gives you as many shots as a single classed fighter gets attacks which you can double with quicken. It’s a class feature disguised as a cantrip.

If you don’t plan on doing that you will probably end up weaker than a single classed sorcerer. But if it’s essential to your build idea, go for it.
Eh, like I said, I'm not entering Warlock for mechanical reasons, except for the Invocations and the Familiar. But...


Provided for your campaign you don't need Darkvision continuously forever, you can have the Darkvision spell as a Sorcerer for those times you do need it. Same with Detect Magic. Does your familiar really have to be a pseudodragon? You can take Magic Initiate feat and get Find Familiar that way and pick up a couple of Cantrips. Alternatively there's the Ritual Magic feat and you find the spells you want. If you're a variant human you have either at 1st level. You can get what you want as a single class if not perfectly.

It sounds like I'm biased against multiclassing. Not exactly, but warlock dipping gets talked about so much on these Forums it's nice to be reminded it's not a requirement and single class Sorcerer works fine.
I'd like not to waste spell slots on Darkvision or Detect Magic, as they come at a premium for the Sorcerer, but I'll admit that the other party members can more than adeguately make up for my deficiency, it's just that it's my habit to try to cover as many bases as possible by myself.

Also, I didn't know that Find Familiar was a spell: like I said, I'm new to 5E, and seeing that it's a Ritual means that my feat for 4th level is pretty much allocated (I was already thinking of taking Ritual Caster - even though I'm torn between it and Elemental Adept). Then, at this point, what would be better: Ritual Caster of Magic Initiate? I'd say that for flexibility the former would be the best pick, but cantrips seem to be really nice in this edition.
Whatever I pick, this would actually indeed save me multiclassing, something that to be honest I don't really like too.

Thanks for the help, guys.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

I'm gonna debate that cheese aside, and maybe even with the cheese that you should not.

Afterall, lets say that at level sorcerer 6 you multiclass to Warlock 1. Is EB better than having Polymorph at Sorcerer 7? How about S7, W1, are you better off than having Polymorph and Dimension Door? Next Level my Bard could be casting Animate Objects while you are cadting EB.

Far as the recharging goes, find out how your DM is gonna rule.

Then see how long your adventuring days are. Pro-Warlock if your group takes a lot of short rests Warlock looks better w/o cheese even!

Plus no recharge cheese, what does a Warlock get spell wise a Sorcerer does not? My Bard is low on damaging Cantrips. Sorcers have plenty.

[Daithi]

One level of Warlock is really good for the Eldritch Blast, and two levels is even better to get the Eldritch Spear invocation, which pairs well with the Sorcerer Distance metamagic. This gives you a 600' distance range on a spell that scales with character level.

It is true that warlocks are seriously limited in spells, but the invocations somewhat help make up for this fact. A few of them are at will spells, which is pretty powerful. Mask of Many Faces can give you the Arya Stark assassin feel, and Fiendish Vigor gives you pseudo-regeneration at low levels.

There is also the ability to convert warlock spell slots to sorcery points. Yes, this is abused by cheesy "coffeeelock", but it is a valid game consideration as well. Any way you look at it, a couple levels of Warlock certainly extends the power of the Sorcerer. (I'd say the dip should be made earlier rather than later.)

[Asmotherion]

Okay, just to give you some extra details.

My Sorcerer is a Draconic Bloodline (Fire) character, which will of course focus on Fire-based spells. In-game, my character has a deep connection to dragons, for obvious reasons.

I don't want to be a mere artillery implement, and indeed the reason I'd like to go into Warlock is mainly "cosmetic": I was chiefly interested into acquiring a Familiar via Pact Boon, and specifically a pseudodragon. In addition to this, I was interested into a couple of interesting Incantations, namely Devil's Sight and Eldritch Sight, more for roleplaying reasons than for actual power (even though they seem to me to be solid choices). Also, I looked into draconic-type patrons but did not have any luck here: I was thinking to ask my DM if he could consider Io as a "Great Old One" (even if he doesn't really qualify) to pick the telepathy power.

To be honest, I didn't even think about Eldritch blast and its improvements, intending to rely on Sorcerer spells for damage (and yes, primarily Fire bolt). The idea of having two sources of damage is interesting, though, it could be useful to have a different source for enemies resistant to Fire (although Elemental Adept could solve the problem).

I could totaly avoid going into Warlock, that's true. But I feel this could give me some interesting abilites to complement my spellcasting.

For thematic reasons:

-You can technically get Tiamat (or a "Dead" Chromatic Dragon who has become a Fiend) as a Fiend Patron, Devil or Demon as you prefear.
-For Old One you may get an Ancient Dragon who has been traveling in the Astral Plane. Seems thematically correct.
-Fey is not so Dragonic, but you may get it with a Silver Dragon who is very influential in Fey Lore.
-Undying is easy through a Dracolich.
-Hexblade can be the Claw or Fang of a Shadow Dragon, manifesting as the "hilt" of your weapon.

Since you intend to get a Pseudodragon, I suggest twinning Dragon's Breath on both you and it. You'll feel more like dragons than ever.

As levels go on, you'll be able to afford Quickening an EB on top of that for some crazy damage.

[MegenticPull]

Short answer: level 5 or 6, go Warlock 3, and go back to full sorcerer progression.

Long answer, it really depends on what you want to get out of the dip, and what kind of sorcerer you are. If your 6th level sorcerous origin power is great (elemental affinity), go to level 6, if it's just alright (empowered healing) you can dip out at level 5.

One level in warlock can be really powerful, especially if you go hexblade, which is incredibly frontloaded.

Two levels gets you an extra spell slot and the invocations. Honestly if you've gone this far you might as well go to level...

Three, and pick up 2nd level slots and a pact boon. If you're a dragon sorcerer, hexblade, pact of the blade, and the green flame blade spell can make you into a respectable Gish (even still, I might stop at level 1with hexblade) If not, I recommend pact of the tome and the book of ancient secrets invocation, which adds ritual versatility to your Sorcerer.

Of course, it can be tempting to take just one more level for the Ability Score Improvement, but if you do, you need to know that you're giving up the ability to ever cast Wish. At this point, you're not even dipping anymore.

[Citan]

Hello friends, I am currently playing a Human Sorcerer for what is de facto my first serious campaign in 5th Edition (after being a long-time 3.5 player).

I was thinking to multiclass to Warlock due to clear synergies between the two classes. My character has a very high Charisma (overall excellent stats, I rolled three 18s in front of the DM), so I would have what it takes to Warlock well.

But is it worth it? I noticed that, in this Edition, Sorcerers have been severely reduced in the number of spells they can cast: I seem to understand that spellcasting and Pact Magic synergize well, if I'm not mistaken, in that I can treat Warlock spells slots as Sorcerer's and vice versa, correct? But then, they would be low level spell slots, of course, whereas the juice is in high level slots.
So is it worth to make this small dip into Warlock? I was thinking to take 3, maximum 4 levels of Warlock, so I don't lose that much in terms of raw spellcasting power.

And if it is indeed worth it, when do you think the best time to multiclass is? I was thinking to reach level 6 or 7 in Sorcerer, then dipping these 3 levels in Warlock and be happy with it. Is that a good spot/too soon/too late (I'm 3rd level now, but just gained a level)?

Thanks!
Hi ;)

1. Yeah, it is "in general" always worth it, especially for a Sorcerer. Just one level brings you a bit more cantrips or spells, two give you two Invocations to lessen the stress on your slots, three give you a powerful familiar or (potentially) great utility with rituals.

2. But, it is "in general" never 'required'. So you have to assess by yourself why you feel pure Sorcerer would not be enough for you.
Especially since you have 18 in three stats, unless you put them in CHA, DEX and CON, you should have at least another "group" of casters available.

You seem to be looking for a bit more versatility, and namely more utility.
Several ways to do so.
- Pure feats: Ritual Caster (Wizard) and Magic Initiate will help you get more spells. Observant paired with Comprehend Languages and Subtle Enhance Ability would also help you greatly being a great leader / scout / spy.
And since you already got great stats, you could only pick feats without regrets.
- Limited dip: Bard would fit in nicely, bringing a different kind of power to you along with long-rest non-slot utility. Provided you have the WIS, Druid or Cleric would also be great, greater in fact since you'd get ritual casting on an "interchangeable" list (prepared spells).
- Significant multiclass: many options open to you: Tome Warlock 5, if your DM agrees to fuel you with relevant loot/chances, will be the best bet, because you could learn all rituals. Bard 5-6 would also be great, with more spells, expertise and short-rest Bardic Inspiration. Or you could pick dips in different classes, one at a time, between chunks of Sorcerer progression.

3. Note about being Draconic (Fire): Chromatic Bolt and Fireball should be mostly all you need, or swap with Agazsomething's Scorcher if you're afraid of friendly fire.

[UrielAwakened]

Sorcerer multiclassing into Warlock: worth it? And when?

Yes and always.

Although with 3 18s you should honestly just do a Paladin/Sorcerer instead.

You'll be a living god. I can't imagine something more terrifying than a Paladin/Sorc with an 18 in Cha, Con, and Str.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

I'm gonna question this for a second here.

If the OP wants a patron great! It gives the DM plenty of story hooks.

If the OP is power gaming he better check with his DM on the local points conversion rules.

EB vs firebolt or Frost Bite seems like a wash until you put level(s) into Warlock to get repelling EB or the CHA add on. Distance has only mattered to me 1 session over the last two years but there is that also I suppose.

How many levels of progression are we talking about to kick a ranged enemy backwards or add on 4 or 5 points of CHA damage here?

Levels come more slowly mid game and if Sorcery Piint cheeze is off the table thats a big time investment while watching me animate spoons of killing so you can cast EB instead of Firebolt or Frostbite.

[Vrakk]

I think it it always worth it - but that's because I value flexibility and overall usefulness over sheer firepower. 3 levels in warlock is a huge investment and obviously delays your sorcerer output but being able to take the Book of Ancient Secrets and get every ritual in your book you ever come across is awesomesauce. Yes, you can do it with a feat but gaining invocations, 2 2nd lvl spell slots, eldritch blast, armor, and more cantrips and spells known is worth it.

The caveat to this is that if your DM does not enforce the 4-6 encounters per long rest issue then sorcerer straight is your best option. My problem with sorcerer is running out of spell slots and sorcery points - which warlock levels help offset. If you're not running out then warlock is not needed.

[JeffreyGator]

Also, I didn't know that Find Familiar was a spell: like I said, I'm new to 5E, and seeing that it's a Ritual means that my feat for 4th level is pretty much allocated (I was already thinking of taking Ritual Caster - even though I'm torn between it and Elemental Adept). Then, at this point, what would be better: Ritual Caster of Magic Initiate? I'd say that for flexibility the former would be the best pick, but cantrips seem to be really nice in this edition.


Apart from not being sure that you like multi-classing, TomeLock (Ancient Secrets) is the potentially best ritual caster in the game - drawing from all spell lists, however to get the nice 3rd level rituals you need 5 levels in Warlock which probably well exceeds your limit. This also gives you 5 cantrips on top of the 4 sorcerer cantrips for lots of flexibility there. (including every classes cantrips for some of them)


Ritual caster Wizard on your sorcerer can help with the detect magic all the time and find familiar.

[Cicciograna]

Okay, I talked to my DM about my intention to multiclass to Warlock, and it turns out that he was VERY HAPPY to hear that; in fact, he told me that, hadn't I decided that on my own, he would have asked that explicitly for story purposes, so we both win.

In the end I will get to Sor 6 and then take 3 levels of Warlock, taking a Great Old One as my patron. I really enjoy the cosmetic and roleplay opportunities that this gives me, as the interaction with the Good Cleric and paladin of the group will be...interesting (note that my character is not Evil per se, but still, Warlocks have a bad reputation when it comes to the morality of their powers).

Now, since I'm still a Draconic Origin (Fire) Sorcerer, I started thinking about what spells and cantrips to take. Since I'll get to 3rd level tops, I won't be getting all those many spells. One that I definitely want to take is the one that gives a Reaction to scorch someone who just hit me in combat for 2d10 damage (sorry, I'm away from my books and can't remember the name), which will synergize well with my Draconic heritage, and the theme of my character (Fire-based Sorcerer). For the eventual 2nd level spell I'll probably pick Detect thoughts, granted by the patron, because it suits the character.
Do you have other suggestions that would fit nicely with the theme?

Also, how do Pact Magic and Spellcasting interact? If I read that correctly, I am able to cast Warlock spells using Sorcerer slots and vice-versa, correct? And I can also convert Warlock spell slots to Sorcery Points, correct? (Abuse of this is what brings to the Coffeelock build, correct again?)