Alberic Strein
2018-05-28, 11:55 AM
Hello all.
I have run into a bit of a problem in a game I am GM'ing. It's closer to a one-shot than a proper campaign, so I won't have a lot of sessions to fine tune encounters so I went and looked at the CR table for pathfinder. I do know my players a little bit, so I knew easy encounters weren't going to cut it. So I just dropped two cockatrices on their four level 1 arses. I had NPCs here, so the party wasn't in danger of wiping out in case my fears were unfounded. The fighter dude came close to one-shotting one of the damn cockatrices. The fighter dude's player thought the cockatrices were a nice touch, so it's the kind of difficulty he expects. Feeling that things were only going to get worse from here, I banned 3rd party content. The fighter dude couldn't do his thing with paizo only material so he rolled Zone and Lemmy as a Summoner/Eidolon pair.
Second game two players were absent, to somewhat strike the fear of God in the players that were present, I advertised a goddamn wight. A "it hits you you die" wight. Of course I wouldn't actually drop a wight on their level one arses, so I hit the two players present with some sahuagins. One to introduce the monsters they were about to face and was promptly killed, then the encounter started proper, one shooting the party from the dark with a heavy crossbow, one in close quarter combat with one player, and two going to Lemmy and Zone.
You know the cool "rage" ability those sahuagins get? Not one lived long enough to use it.
The party gained a level.
Next session, all the players were here so I went slightly... Wild. The party was in some sort of zombie apocalypse and they correctly surmised they would be ambushed by ghouls soon. So they took out spears, prepared to brace and channel positive energy. Except they rolled mostly 1's for initiative so they got charged by the ghouls. Eight ghouls. The team started getting infected and paralyzed. Eventually the cleric used a hero point to double channel positive energy before being paralyzed. The whole party was paralyzed except for the full plated tower shield wielding fighter, who proceeded to finish the encounter by himself, blowing a hero point as a precaution. Then the party, without resting, went to ambush the remaining ghouls, finding an Imperial Ghoul and a Wolf Ghoul. I don't think either even hit the party before getting wrecked. THEN I hit them from the back with the wight, which they dispatched so easily it was almost comical. I had anticipated it at this point and let them know it was a wight spawn and they were in the middle of a wight apocalypse. End of session.
And here I am today, wondering what the hell kind of CR I should give the next encounter.
8 ghouls was a bit too much, the imperial + wolf ghoul encounter was not enough, even with the ad hoc inclusion of the wight spawn. And all those encounters, even the ones with the sahuagins were way above APL+3. As 2 lvl1 adventurers, the APL of the party for the encounter was 0, the CR of 4 sahuagins was 6. That's twice over APL+3. For the ghouls, the APL was 2, and the CR of the encounter was 7. The Imperial+wolf was 6. The Wight spawn was the only easy fight they got and it was the cherry on top of 13 CR of encounters that day.
The party is reaching lvl 3 soon. Am I going to have to bring out common Rakshasas by then or something? I allowed the party to get full HP on level up, should I give the same to the monsters or is that an unfair change?
The party so far consists of:
The Princess, Swashbuckler 1, Vigilante 1 (yes, one of my players sprang the "princess" card on me as the game started. I should have known it was going to be one hell of a bumpy ride here and then)
Tukohama, Fighter 2 (full plate and tower shield at chargen due to having the right traits/skills, his AC is so high the ghouls needed a nat 20 to hit him. Uses a trident)
Saul, Cleric 2 (cleric of Calistria. I actually gave a "touch of fertility" bonus ability. No save, if the targeted creature engages in intercourse, fecundation happens. Purely roleplay until they somehow find a way to weaponize that, besides huge circumstance bonuses to intimidate against the Princess.)
Lemmy & Zone, Summoner 2 (A disgusting pile of tentacles and its violet haired and [short-]dressed interpret/summoner. Slightly skill-monkey due to the Posession trait. Not a synthesis Summoner, thank god.)
Right now I'm considering pooling all their character levels, so 8, soon to be 12 and throw 1.5 times that as the default encounter.
So yeah, I am seriously considering turning that wight into a sword wight with eight normal wights, desecrated ground countering the spawn malus.
I am just actually concerned I'll either end that unofficial module or kill my players before getting the difficulty just right. I get that Pathfinder had quite a bit of power creep over the years, so what are the 2018 rules for getting the CR of encounters right?
I have run into a bit of a problem in a game I am GM'ing. It's closer to a one-shot than a proper campaign, so I won't have a lot of sessions to fine tune encounters so I went and looked at the CR table for pathfinder. I do know my players a little bit, so I knew easy encounters weren't going to cut it. So I just dropped two cockatrices on their four level 1 arses. I had NPCs here, so the party wasn't in danger of wiping out in case my fears were unfounded. The fighter dude came close to one-shotting one of the damn cockatrices. The fighter dude's player thought the cockatrices were a nice touch, so it's the kind of difficulty he expects. Feeling that things were only going to get worse from here, I banned 3rd party content. The fighter dude couldn't do his thing with paizo only material so he rolled Zone and Lemmy as a Summoner/Eidolon pair.
Second game two players were absent, to somewhat strike the fear of God in the players that were present, I advertised a goddamn wight. A "it hits you you die" wight. Of course I wouldn't actually drop a wight on their level one arses, so I hit the two players present with some sahuagins. One to introduce the monsters they were about to face and was promptly killed, then the encounter started proper, one shooting the party from the dark with a heavy crossbow, one in close quarter combat with one player, and two going to Lemmy and Zone.
You know the cool "rage" ability those sahuagins get? Not one lived long enough to use it.
The party gained a level.
Next session, all the players were here so I went slightly... Wild. The party was in some sort of zombie apocalypse and they correctly surmised they would be ambushed by ghouls soon. So they took out spears, prepared to brace and channel positive energy. Except they rolled mostly 1's for initiative so they got charged by the ghouls. Eight ghouls. The team started getting infected and paralyzed. Eventually the cleric used a hero point to double channel positive energy before being paralyzed. The whole party was paralyzed except for the full plated tower shield wielding fighter, who proceeded to finish the encounter by himself, blowing a hero point as a precaution. Then the party, without resting, went to ambush the remaining ghouls, finding an Imperial Ghoul and a Wolf Ghoul. I don't think either even hit the party before getting wrecked. THEN I hit them from the back with the wight, which they dispatched so easily it was almost comical. I had anticipated it at this point and let them know it was a wight spawn and they were in the middle of a wight apocalypse. End of session.
And here I am today, wondering what the hell kind of CR I should give the next encounter.
8 ghouls was a bit too much, the imperial + wolf ghoul encounter was not enough, even with the ad hoc inclusion of the wight spawn. And all those encounters, even the ones with the sahuagins were way above APL+3. As 2 lvl1 adventurers, the APL of the party for the encounter was 0, the CR of 4 sahuagins was 6. That's twice over APL+3. For the ghouls, the APL was 2, and the CR of the encounter was 7. The Imperial+wolf was 6. The Wight spawn was the only easy fight they got and it was the cherry on top of 13 CR of encounters that day.
The party is reaching lvl 3 soon. Am I going to have to bring out common Rakshasas by then or something? I allowed the party to get full HP on level up, should I give the same to the monsters or is that an unfair change?
The party so far consists of:
The Princess, Swashbuckler 1, Vigilante 1 (yes, one of my players sprang the "princess" card on me as the game started. I should have known it was going to be one hell of a bumpy ride here and then)
Tukohama, Fighter 2 (full plate and tower shield at chargen due to having the right traits/skills, his AC is so high the ghouls needed a nat 20 to hit him. Uses a trident)
Saul, Cleric 2 (cleric of Calistria. I actually gave a "touch of fertility" bonus ability. No save, if the targeted creature engages in intercourse, fecundation happens. Purely roleplay until they somehow find a way to weaponize that, besides huge circumstance bonuses to intimidate against the Princess.)
Lemmy & Zone, Summoner 2 (A disgusting pile of tentacles and its violet haired and [short-]dressed interpret/summoner. Slightly skill-monkey due to the Posession trait. Not a synthesis Summoner, thank god.)
Right now I'm considering pooling all their character levels, so 8, soon to be 12 and throw 1.5 times that as the default encounter.
So yeah, I am seriously considering turning that wight into a sword wight with eight normal wights, desecrated ground countering the spawn malus.
I am just actually concerned I'll either end that unofficial module or kill my players before getting the difficulty just right. I get that Pathfinder had quite a bit of power creep over the years, so what are the 2018 rules for getting the CR of encounters right?