Mearls' tweet about Mystics

[jleonardwv]

When I first read it, I got all steamed up since I have been reading the 3rd UA Mystic in preparation to play one as a character. I also reacted strongly against what seemed like Mearls was saying "Psionics is just a specialized version of spellcasting." After I calmed down, I recalled that before any UA Mystic was released, I had an idea of playing a Psion and my idea was to ask the DM to let me be an INT Sorcerer with permanent subtle spell (and no spell components) in place of all other Sorcerous Origin powers. I was planning then to pick mostly spells that didn't have an origin with the character so to remain mostly incognito.

Besides the Psychic Focus of the various talents, most of the abilities could be fluffed as spells. For example, Bestial Form is an extended version of Alter Self. A couple of abilities function like a scaling Shield spell. Inertial Armor is Mage Armor. Bigby's Hand is like Grasp. Various fire spells duplicate Mastery of Fire. We have a bunch of wall spells which can easily be fluffed as coming from the mind. Mystic Hand is invisible Mage Hand, just like the Rogue ability.

Some mental powers don't have an exact spell duplicates, but could be easily added as mystic-only spells. For example, Mystic Charm could just be Friends without the hostility rider.

What can't quite be duplicated by simply giving the Mystic some of its own spells plus many from other lists are the scaling abilities of the Mystic Disciplines, some of which allow 1-7 PP for scaling.

On the other hand, the Mystic currently has a very limited list of talents. If these are treated like cantrip spells, then then list could be instantly expanded. Why can't Magic Stone be a version of the Mastery of Force Move ability?

Someone has objected that psionics are unique since they can't be dispelled or counterspelled. Well, you can't counterspell Subtle Spell ala Sorceror, since no visible sign shows it being cast. I can't see how allowing a dispel of a psionic power is unfair since all other classes have to abide by such limitations.

[Drascin]

Someone has objected that psionics are unique since they can't be dispelled or counterspelled. Well, you can't counterspell Subtle Spell ala Sorceror, since no visible sign shows it being cast. I can't see how allowing a dispel of a psionic power is unfair since all other classes have to abide by such limitations.

Psionics should absolutely be dispellable, and I was under the impression it already was.

But either way, my biggest problem with "just make it spells" is that... well, the unique structure of the mystic is cool. You don't learn random-ass discrete spells, you learn disciplines and those come with packages of related goodies, some good some bad, most of which are lower scale than spells, but which also bring a psychic focus that is often a really neat passive. I'm not going to lie, my current character is a wu-jen mystic largely because I loved what psychic foci said about a character - there's a marked difference in feel between "as long as I'm awake, falls do not concern me", which is basically how Mastery of Air's works, and "I can prepare Feather fall in the morning". If you just make it spells, all the foci will probably be folded back into spells and cantrips, and at that point you might as well play a sorcerer, because it's not like the spell list for the mystic is going to be half as good as the Wiz/sor list because let's be realistic, they never are.

[sambojin]

I've got no problem with psionics just being different magic. It keeps things simple.

Antimagic fields can work against it, if you can detect it you can dispel/counterspell it, etc.

I don't see a problem with that. It's different and cool enough without making it "totally not magic", which would screw up a lot. I just want them to start finalizing it, so it's out of UA and totally usable. I mean, we know there's going to be some broken stuff there. There is in vanilla PHB-only stuff. Let us find it and have fun with it. But keep it as magic. Otherwise the whole thing is screwy and probably broken. 5e is meant to simplify stuff, and having psionics as just-another-sort-of-magic, even with PP, weird PMastery uses, etc, does that.

[MeeposFire]

Honestly since at least 3e psionics has been essentially a variant of spell casting. Not always fluffwise but if you look at the mechanics it has just been spellcasting with some face lifts and you can also tell that the 3.5 version just had its PP turned into spell slots to essentially create the 5e spell casting.

[Naanomi]

Since 5e already has ‘upcasting spells’ as a concept; the groundwork of what made psionics mechanically stand out (since 2e+ anyways) is already there. 3.5 default assumptions was no magic/psionics transparency right?

[Kane0]

Anyone got a link to the tweet in question?

[Vorpalchicken]

Without rewriting huge swaths of the game, this is the best approach. I don't want a player with special snowflake magic-like powers that circumvent all existing magic defenses (of beholders, extra-dimensional beings, powerful wizard's etc.)
I've really never liked psionics in any edition. It's always seemed like power gamey, power creepy, ignore-the-setting headache-inducing malarkey.

I may have tolerated it in Dark Sun, at least as far as the setting is concerned, if I had ever played that. Still I've never been satisfied with psionics rules execution.

[Fishybugs]

Maybe this? It seems to fit what everyone in the thread is talking around....

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/05/28/think-i-found-the-last-piece-for-psionics-while-working-on-the-backyard/

[Kane0]

Well that makes sense for Sorcerers and other classes that get subclasses at level 1, but might be a little bit awkward for Wizards and the Psionic equivalents of EKs/ATs.

Interested to see how it pans out though, it certainly sounds more elegant than writing a whole new subsystem into the game just for Psionics when magic and spells already cover much of the distance (especially with concentration and spell points).

[Foxhound438]

I personally don't see why they ever tried to make it a completely new system in the first place. Everything that already has psionics in the game (think gith psionics, thri-kreen, any amound of illithid) just use spells. I don't mind if you have a spell point system built into the class, but there's no reason to reinvent the wheel here.

[Blacky the Blackball]

So if I'm interpreting this right, looking at those tweets without any other context, it seems to me that he's suggesting the following:

There is a ninth school of magic - Psionic - to go with the other eight (Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy, and Transmutation).
There will be a bunch of new spells in that school, but those spells won't retro-actively appear on the list of any existing class or sub-class.
Presumably these new spells - in keeping with the feel of psionics - will be mostly mental and will mostly not have any V, S, or M components.
One or more new sub-classes will be written for the existing classes, and they will gain access to some or all of the psionic spells as part of their sub-class features.

That sounds a pretty elegant way to do things. So for example a "Psychic Warrior" could be fighter sub-class similar to the Eldritch Knight, except getting psionic spells instead of abjuration and evocation spells. Similarly there could be a "Soulknife" as a rogue sub-class similar to the Arcane Trickster.

Presumably, if there's going to be a "pure" Psion it would be a sorcerer sub-class who gets to choose psionic spells instead of spells from the other schools.

And there may or may not need to be a rule about things like Magic Secrets and other abilities that let characters take a spell from outside their class list and whether those abilities can give you access to psionic spells if you're not in a psionic sub-class.

[Kuu Lightwing]

Feels like this way psionics simply doesn't have a reason to exist. Is there any niche that isn't covered by other spellcasting classes? There's a lot of psychic spells - various forms of telepathy, telekinsis, mind screwing, pyrokinesis, etc. So, what's actually going to make psychics different from wizards or sorcerers that picked these spells? Do we need a class simply for fluff sake?

[mephnick]

Man I can't wait for Sorcs to be even worse as psionics steals and then eviscerates one of it's only redeeming qualities with permanent Subtle Spell.

[carrdrivesyou]

I swear to the gods...if they turn the Mystic into some trash crap fighter or wizard archetype i'm burning my PHB and DMG and never playing this edition again.

[Millstone85]

If psionic classes all share the same list, it will just make me question more why there isn't an arcane list and a divine list.


Psionics should absolutely be dispellable, and I was under the impression it already was.In the first two UAs, psionics was distinct from magic altogether. A psionic discipline could neither be antimagicked nor counterspelled.

In the third UA, psionics was a form of magic distinct from spellcasting. A psionic discipline could be antimagicked but not counterspelled.

Despite its name, dispel magic only targets spells. Its interaction with psionics was the same as counterspell.

[Unoriginal]

Maybe this? It seems to fit what everyone in the thread is talking around....

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/05/28/think-i-found-the-last-piece-for-psionics-while-working-on-the-backyard/


Why are people freaking out about the Mystic? Mearls literally said it'll be included



Mike Mearls:

It’s a spell list that you gain access to only if you choose a psionic class. Non-casters pick up and use the cantrips. This class-less spell list can also be used by the mystic. It’s going to be fun diving in on Tuesday. (2/2)


Also:

The Psychic Warrior
(https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/05/09/psychic-warrior-pt1-the-mike-mearls-happy-fun-hour/)

The Psion/Mind Mage (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/05/06/the-psion-psychic-mind-mage-pt2-the-mike-mearls-happy-fun-hour/)

The Soul Knife (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/05/26/the-monk-soul-knife-subclass-the-mike-mearls-happy-fun-hour/)

[Drascin]

Since 5e already has ‘upcasting spells’ as a concept; the groundwork of what made psionics mechanically stand out (since 2e+ anyways) is already there. 3.5 default assumptions was no magic/psionics transparency right?

3.5 baseline, as of the Expanded Psionics Handbook, was full transparency - dispel magic affects psionics, dispel psionics affects magic, and so on. Basically Psionics and magic being two separate routes to arrive at the same physical power, sort of like comparing divine spells with warlock invocations with dragon spell-likes.

[Naanomi]

3.5 baseline, as of the Expanded Psionics Handbook, was full transparency - dispel magic affects psionics, dispel psionics affects magic, and so on. Basically Psionics and magic being two separate routes to arrive at the same physical power, sort of like comparing divine spells with warlock invocations with dragon spell-likes.
Sorry, that is what I meant... I couldn’t remember if they used transparency as inclusion or exclusion. Magic and Psionics are the same with very very few explicit exceptions is the default

[Theoboldi]

Honestly, this does not fill me with confidence. Though there were balance issues, I loved that the UA Mystic felt so very distinct from the normal magic system. I felt that learning various disciplines that gave passive abilities, and allowed more powerful effects in tune with them by spending from a resource pool of psionic power, was way more in line with the flavor of using your mind to alter reality than learning separate spells with very distinct effects.

I'll reserve my judgement until we get more info, especially on how the new Mystic would function given these new design principles, but I'd be sad to see the interesting, albeit rough system we've had so far go.

Psionic - Magic transparency, on the other hand, I honestly don't care all that much about. Whichever way they go on that is fine by me.

[Millstone85]

Maybe psionic disciplines will not only be designed like 1st-level spells with numerous upcasting options, as I think they were in the UAs, but actually count as such.

[Throne12]

I know this is going to get a lot of flack but.

I think instead of creating a hole new class and trying to balance it with all the others. It easier to make and balance sub-classes. So I think we should take all these different pisonic types and make them into subclasses.

Like make a soul knife a rogue subclass. A mystic a wizard subclass. A wu gen a magical monk, a immortal a barbarian. Ect....

I mean this is what the mystics class is trying to do. It's trying to make one class that can fill any role.

Now there will be people saying the fluff doesn't fit it has to be it own class. Well my friend if the fluff is that you have mastered your fighting style to a hole different level or you have been Enlighten.

[Mortis_Elrod]

I know this is going to get a lot of flack but.

I think instead of creating a hole new class and trying to balance it with all the others. It easier to make and balance sub-classes. So I think we should take all these different pisonic types and make them into subclasses.

Like make a soul knife a rogue subclass. A mystic a wizard subclass. A wu gen a magical monk, a immortal a barbarian. Ect....

I mean this is what the mystics class is trying to do. It's trying to make one class that can fill any role.

Now there will be people saying the fluff doesn't fit it has to be it own class. Well my friend if the fluff is that you have mastered your fighting style to a hole different level or you have been Enlighten.

this works for most of the Psionic types but i think there still needs to be a base class. This would probably include Wu-jen, Nomad, and Awakened as sub classes. then everything else can be shoved into a subclasss.

I also don't see why there shouldn't be a distinct difference between spellcasting and psionics. This game is designed for Fluff>Mechanics, and there's plenty of fluff reasons for them to be separate.

If you don't want psionics complicating your game then don't have them. Its the same thing with feats and MCing and any book that isn't the PHB.

[Theoboldi]

Maybe psionic disciplines will not only be designed like 1st-level spells with numerous upcasting options, as I think they were in the UAs, but actually count as such.
That would not be so bad, and I think I'm gonna hope this is what they'll go with. If it's just that they use spell slots to power the psionic abilities, that would not be so bad, although having power points seemed like a perfectly fine design point to me. Of course, this will bring the usual weirdness of vancian casting like being able to still cast a 9th level version of a spell despite no longer having the juice to cast a 1st level version, but it's a relatively minor drawback.


I know this is going to get a lot of flack but.

I think instead of creating a hole new class and trying to balance it with all the others. It easier to make and balance sub-classes. So I think we should take all these different pisonic types and make them into subclasses.

Psionic subclasses are totally fine in my opinion, and the Mystic should definitely not try and fill every role a party could potentially need. However, if psionics are to have a distinct mechanical identity, there should be still one base class after which all the subclasses are designed. Kinda like how you have both the Arcane Trickster and the Eldritch Knight, but also just the straight-up wizard.

Though to be fair, I'm saying that mostly because I want to have at least one class that's just psionic. Not someone who fights with a sword or who uses a spellbook, and is psionic on the side. You could do that with a sorcerous bloodline, of course, but that once again runs into the problem of individual spells just not having quite the correct feel for psionics, as far as I am concerned.

[jleonardwv]

The idea of mystic subclasses is almost an instant cure for the 4 elements monk. At third level, you give them Energy Beam talent, a couple of Wu-Jen Disciplines with associated focus, and a pool of Ki only available to spend on the disciplines. I mean, you could homebrew this right now easily. The Wu Jen disciplines can easily replace all the unique Elemental Disciplines in the PHB and provide a great expansion of choices. I mean, you already a Max Ki table, that could just stay.

You might also create new love for Sorcerer. Swap INT for CHA. Give the mystic Sorcerer access to a lot of mystic disciplines (spells) that don't have components or maybe when "focused" no components needed. For some mystic abilities add components so that Subtle Spell still has value as a choice of Metamagic. You already have sorcery points that you could potentially limit to use with mystic disciplines.

[Drascin]

Sorry, that is what I meant... I couldn’t remember if they used transparency as inclusion or exclusion. Magic and Psionics are the same with very very few explicit exceptions is the default

Hey, no need to apologize, honestly it's a completely arbitrary term. That's actually why I wanted to elaborate, so everyone knew what we were referring to!


I know this is going to get a lot of flack but.

I think instead of creating a hole new class and trying to balance it with all the others. It easier to make and balance sub-classes. So I think we should take all these different pisonic types and make them into subclasses.

Like make a soul knife a rogue subclass. A mystic a wizard subclass. A wu gen a magical monk, a immortal a barbarian. Ect....

I mean this is what the mystics class is trying to do. It's trying to make one class that can fill any role.

Now there will be people saying the fluff doesn't fit it has to be it own class. Well my friend if the fluff is that you have mastered your fighting style to a hole different level or you have been Enlighten.

My issue is more with the difference in structure. I like the mystic's "package" approach over the inevitable "pick-a-spell" that turning, say, Wu-Jen into a subclass for sorcerer would imply. IT actually helps with focus, and disciplines are a sort of midpoint between the full-package of subclasses and the discrete purchasables of spells that I find works kind of real well.

And well, you could design packages of spells as well, but at that point you're basically just rewriting Mystic anyway changing a few words, aren't you :smalltongue:.

[Unoriginal]

Mearls indicated the Mystic will stay it's own class, and that they're making psionic sub-classes for playtest.

[DivisibleByZero]

So if I'm interpreting this right, looking at those tweets without any other context, it seems to me that he's suggesting the following:

There is a ninth school of magic - Psionic - to go with the other eight (Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy, and Transmutation).
There will be a bunch of new spells in that school, but those spells won't retro-actively appear on the list of any existing class or sub-class.
Presumably these new spells - in keeping with the feel of psionics - will be mostly mental and will mostly not have any V, S, or M components.
One or more new sub-classes will be written for the existing classes, and they will gain access to some or all of the psionic spells as part of their sub-class features.

My reading was that this will create another school, called Psionics, which will probably not be composed of new spells, but rather which will be comprised of existing spells (and maybe some new as well possibly) which will all be lumped together under this new school's umbrella.
Think of it more like a specialty list, something akin to 3e's Duskblade list, but comprised of spells from the entirety of the spell list rather than a single class, which will be inaccessible to anyone unless they have a Psionic subclass. Lots of those spell may very well be accessible to the character from thier base class anyway, but not all of them.
So let's say, for a random example, that Healing Word is on the list. In addition to their normal list for their normal class, a Psionic Rogue or Wizard or whoever, who gains access to this list via a Psionic subclass, will now have access to Healing Word when they normally wouldn't.
An extra school, available only to Psionic characters, which would augment your normal spell list by addition, not by replacement.
That's what I got from it.

[Cynthaer]

Mearls indicated the Mystic will stay it's own class, and that they're making psionic sub-classes for playtest.

I really, really want to emphasize this, because so many of the conversations on this board happen with only partial knowledge of things Mearls has said, especially from the Happy Fun Hour streams.

They are explicitly not dropping the standalone psionic class, currently called the Mystic.

Specifically, Mearls has said:


He wants the Mystic class to be more focused, instead of being "the psionic class" and trying to cover every aspect of psionics. He says this was a very consistent piece of feedback they got from the Mystic playtests.
He particularly wants to focus on that class's design in the context of the Dark Sun setting because of how important psionics is to that setting, and the Mystic will probably be printed as part of Dark Sun setting materials.
The psionic subclasses currently being worked on are intended to serve as a "bridge" to get psionics into games that want them before the Mystic gets printed some time in the future.
They also serve to cover certain archetypes (like "Mind Mage", "Psychic Warrior", and "Soul Knife") so that the Mystic doesn't need to try and cover every possible psionic archetype in one class.

[Theoboldi]

They are explicitly not dropping the standalone psionic class[/B], currently called the Mystic.
Just to avoid confusion regarding my standpoint, I never thought that they were scrapping the Mystic as a base class. I was merely arguing against the idea proposed by Throne12 that doing so would be a good way of implementing psionics.

I realize that the Mystic is still planned to exist as a base class, I just am disheartened by the comments that Mearls made on what its design might look like in the future.

[Cynthaer]

Just to avoid confusion regarding my standpoint, I never thought that they were scrapping the Mystic as a base class. I was merely arguing against the idea proposed by Throne12 that doing so would be a good way of implementing psionics.

I realize that the Mystic is still planned to exist as a base class, I just am disheartened by the comments that Mearls made on what its design might look like in the future.
Sure, and I wasn't directing that at anyone in particular. I just want to make sure the info is out there, because there are a lot of posts in general either arguing for keeping the Mystic or putting things in terms of "if they [keep/remove] the Mystic, then..."

We should all be clear that the Mystic is 100% going to remain, so we can move the conversation forward instead of retreading the same ground over and over again.

On that note:


Of course, this will bring the usual weirdness of vancian casting like being able to still cast a 9th level version of a spell despite no longer having the juice to cast a 1st level version, but it's a relatively minor drawback.
Does this come up a lot in play, or is it more of a theoretical strangeness? It never really occurred to me before now, but maybe that's because I haven't played any medium-to-high-level games. I guess it's most likely to come up when you're level 10 or so and you have 3 slots each for 2nd-4th level spells?

[Theoboldi]

Does this come up a lot in play, or is it more of a theoretical strangeness? It never really occurred to me before now, but maybe that's because I haven't played any medium-to-high-level games. I guess it's most likely to come up when you're level 10 or so and you have 3 slots each for 2nd-4th level spells?

I've seen it once or twice, but it's not really something that comes up often. Like I said, it's one of those little weird things about how vancian casting interacts with the fluff that might be given to magic. It can happen even when you're out of burning hands, but can still throw a fireball, for instance.

It's certainly not enough to ruin the Mystic for me, should it come to exist in that form.

[Ralanr]

I’m a bit disappointed because I liked the stance mechanic they introduced to us.

Maybe they’ll use it for something else.

[Millstone85]

Specifically, Mearls has said:


He wants the Mystic class to be more focused, instead of being "the psionic class" and trying to cover every aspect of psionics. He says this was a very consistent piece of feedback they got from the Mystic playtests.
He particularly wants to focus on that class's design in the context of the Dark Sun setting because of how important psionics is to that setting, and the Mystic will probably be printed as part of Dark Sun setting materials.
The psionic subclasses currently being worked on are intended to serve as a "bridge" to get psionics into games that want them before the Mystic gets printed some time in the future.
They also serve to cover certain archetypes (like "Mind Mage", "Psychic Warrior", and "Soul Knife") so that the Mystic doesn't need to try and cover every possible psionic archetype in one class.
Those are all very good news, except for the mystic and the psionic subclasses potentially being released in separate books.

Also, a nitpick: technically, the mystic will remain "the psionic class" if everything else psionic is done through subclasses.


I’m a bit disappointed because I liked the stance mechanic they introduced to us.

Maybe they’ll use it for something else.I love stances, but would like them to be completely separate from disciplines. Psionic invocations? Psionic fighting styles?

[Kuu Lightwing]

Psionic fighting styles?
I smell the return of Psychic Combat. :D

Was there any good implementation of this, by the way?

[Cynthaer]

Those are all very good news, except for the mystic and the psionic subclasses potentially being released in separate books.

I'm not certain, but I think he means that the subclasses can get psionics into the hands of players via Unearthed Arcana long before they print (or at least improve) the Mystic class, rather than that they would print the subclasses earlier. The point being that it's vastly easier to balance subclasses than to balance an entire class, even if we're only considering Unearthed Arcana.

I don't specifically recall him saying outright, "these would all be printed together", but only because I don't recall him saying anything about printing the subclasses on the stream. It's all been in the context of UA so far. My sense has been that they would all probably be printed together if the subclasses do see print.

(Someone please correct me if I'm forgetting something.)


Also, a nitpick: technically, the mystic will remain "the psionic class" if everything else psionic is done through subclasses.
Fair enough. :)

My point was that the Mystic would have a more focused and archetypal approach to psionics. Sort of like how the existence of the Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster (and even the Sorcerer and Warlock, really) take the pressure off of the Wizard to be "the arcane spellcasting class" and thereby cover every possible character concept by itself. At the same time, the Wizard still is "the arcane spellcasting class" in that (A) spellcasting is the core of the class's identity, and (B) the Wizard is the first thing that comes to mind when you talk about arcane spellcasters.

The Mystic would presumably fill a similar role for psionics.

[M Placeholder]

I smell the return of Psychic Combat. :D

Was there any good implementation of this, by the way?

There was an attempt in 2nd edition to build on the rules listed in the Complete Psionics Handbook, and it came in Dark Sun (surprise, surprise).

It was covered in the guidebook The Will and The Way, and if I remember correctly, it was put in order to approximate the psychic battles in the Prism Pentad series of books. In the books, practitioners of the Way (the Athasian term for Psionics) sent mental constructs called Harbingers into the minds of people they used their psychic powers on, and quite a lot of it was esoteric. The description was that for powers mostly relating to telepathy (the speciality of Agis, one of the main characters), you looked your target in the eye, locked gazes and sent your Harbinger into their mind. The person on the recieving end could erect a defense by creating his own construct or by other means, for example King Tithian in one scene knows that his mind is about to be invaded by a Beasthead Giant, so he visualises a fine mesh net which is carried by huge bats that drool venom, but which fails to stop the Harbinger of the giant getting to the bottom of the King's mind. It wasn't the sort of thing that could be easily replicated in the desktop setting, but they did try.

So The Will and The Way tried to approximate the combat in the books by having 5 psionic attacks and 5 psionic defences, and there was a whole table detailing the different modifiers for each attack and each defense. Also, each attack was linked to 4 different Harbingers and each defense was linked to 4 different Constructs, which also had their own table for modifiers to mental combat. All of the symbols for the Harbingers and Constructs were linked to Athas, be it creatures (So-ut, Crystal Spider, Tembo), people and their skills (Noble, Templar, Slave) or environment (Mudflat, Sand, Forest), and that was the basis for describing a mental battle.

It was a pretty cool game mechanic and tool for describing two people trying to melt each others brains, and I would love to see something similar for 5e.

[sambojin]

He actually mentioned both Darksun and Eberron. So even if you hate psionics, that should give fans of either setting some vague hope that WotC are at least doing something with them in the future, and well before 6e is on the table.

I can understand the "just make a new list and some subclasses" thing for playtesting. But I really liked MysticV3 (with PP and multi-power discipline packages). I'd actually prefer they tidy up the loopholes, add a MC stat requirement, fix the OP/UP'ness of different powers, add more talents and maybe disciplines, and release a V4 playtest.

Since the eventual goal is to release Mystic/Psion anyway, and WotC is notoriously slow at releasing big stuff, I'd rather what tiny amount of extra effort they do have available to be used, to be used on this. Rather than some UA subclasses that may never get out of UA. Probably seems like too much work, when you can just feed the masses on bite-sized UA gibberish though. You can't have made any errors if it's just a playtest, and you still get paid either way.


But if they're going to do Psionics as Spells for easier use, then I hope they go the whole hog and release a fundamentally changed spell list for these subclasses. Like 3.5e, where some spells could be cast a level lower or even be at a higher level than the default, to really portray what that class was good at (or bad at, yet could still do), magically speaking. Which is probably another can of worms that they're trying to steer clear of, but it opens up character design space incredibly easily and well, that it is worthwhile considering. It'd certainly keep the uniqueness of psionics (potentially casting heaps of lower level spells throughout a day), yet still have a "power bump" required for upcasting, due to the way 5e's spells are written for using higher slots.

[Kane0]

When I look at the UA Mystic I think '5e Arcanum' rather than '5e Psionics'. I think it's much more unique and interesting as a subsystem to be introduced than 'Subtle spellpoint enchantment/telekinesis casting', which easily could just be bundled into the existing mechanics without needing its own rules section.

So yeah, still interested in seeing where this goes. If we get a '5e Arcanum' in the form of a base class + new spell school maybe we could also get a '5e ToB' in the same manner. Would make the new inclusions feel like it blends into the existing game better than a standalone book with it's own subsystem that reinvents the wheel.