Pyrokineticist -How to Improve?

[kalos72]

I am really liking this class, what do you all think and has anyone done a handbook or a custom class mod for it?

I am thinking of homebrewing it a class versus a PRC as its pretty weak as it is today.

Maybe add variants like WOTC did, acid, sonic, force or holy maybe? I know people have said fire is the most common element to get resisted/defended against.

Maybe make it so they can change aspects?

I have a player that is really looking for a good way to incorporate gnomes into our party and is interested in this class....thoughts?

[BowStreetRunner]

...has anyone done a handbook...
There is a Handbook (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=6073.0)over on minmax.

[Nifft]

The problem with Pyrokineticist is that it doesn't advance manifesting.

A related problem is that Firewalk eats PP, but the class doesn't give you any PP.

[kalos72]

True, I am seeing this PRC as one related to the Firestorm Berserker ones only psionic. I LOVE the Firestorm. :)

Love the flare, not so much in use though. Sounds great...less filling. :(

Any suggestions on race ranking for this class or a better handbook?

[Kurald Galain]

Well if Pathfinder books are allowed, then its crossblooded sorcerer is a good substitute. At level 10, the pyrokineticist's flame bolt deals 5d6 per hit, whereas the sorc can cast Scorching Ray for 12d6+24 per round pretty much at-will, and 18d6+36 ten times per day via Empower Spell; in addition to getting a full suite of other spells as needed.

[kalos72]

Now I'm not going to lie here but isn't a whip, or maybe change it to spiked chain, pretty decent with the proper feats?

Can you use ranged or melee feats to support it?

Manifester levels are simply levels you add to your base class correct?

[kalos72]

Well if Pathfinder books are allowed, then its crossblooded sorcerer is a good substitute. At level 10, the pyrokineticist's flame bolt deals 5d6 per hit, whereas the sorc can cast Scorching Ray for 12d6+24 per round pretty much at-will, and 18d6+36 ten times per day via Empower Spell; in addition to getting a full suite of other spells as needed.

Half the reason I am liking the class is its psionic... :(

[mabriss lethe]

Between the basic class and the Mind's Eye energy variants, it has its bases mostly covered. The only thing I would definitely give them is an ability similar to searing spell that applies to its attacks.

Other tweaks would be to remove the PP cost of Firewalk and just replace it with needing to maintain psionic focus, change many of the abilities to use a swift instead of a move action. Remove the 1/day limitation on Nimbus. replace it with the mechanic allowing for a total time limit per day broken up as the character sees fit. Clean up the effect tags on Heat Death, maybe push it to level 10 as a capstone ability, swapping places with conflagration. barring that, make Conflagration usable more often.

The one thing I wouldn't do, is make it advance manifesting. It's a great class for nonmanifesters as-is, and manifesters have lots of good options already. It already plays well in the niche of "Canned gish that doesn't require any resource management"

[Nifft]

Any suggestions on race ranking for this class or a better handbook?

The handbook seems solid, and using it you can be a very happy Pyro in a low-ish optimization game.

Is your game low-ish op?

- Do you need to compete with fully-utilized Wizard / Cleric / Druid / Psion types as your party-mates?
- Or are they more like a Mystic Theurge (no early entry), a Bard, a Barbarian, and a Swashbuckler / Rogue with Daring Outlaw?
- Or are they below even low-op, and you're partying with a Fighter, a Knight, a Warmage, and a Ninja?

It might be fine to be low-ish op. That might be fun and appropriate. We need to know your context.


If you want homebrew, IMHO the best structural foundation would be the Jade Phoenix Mage. Replace the 8/10 spellcasting with manifester advencement, give Desert Wind and White Raven maneuvers, and put all the good Pyro stuff in as class abilities. Firewalk might require being in a Desert Wind stance; Bolt of Fire might be free power points when you manifest a [Fire] power, etc.

[Crichton]

As the handbook mentions, if you can use Gauntlets of Energy Transformation to bypass fire immunity in mid to later levels, you'll probably do just fine with it, at most tables.

[kalos72]

I was thinking more like a Soulknife primary class, with the ability to improve the fire lash or maybe change it to a barbed whip or spiked chain, with more extra martial feats as he levels and add the Martial Stance/Maneuvers is a nice touch. Make alot of the abilities swift and add to their frequency.

I really love the explosiveness of the Firestorm Berserker, this gives me that in a psionic form. I just dont want it as a PRC...

[kalos72]

Something quick:

Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Maneuvers Known Maneuvers Readied Stances Known
1st 0 0 2 2 Fire Lash, Weapon Focus (Fire Lash) 2 1 1
2nd 1 0 3 3 Fire adaptation, Hand Afire 2 1 1
3rd 2 1 3 3 Bolt of Fire, Bonus Feat:Combat Expertise 3 2 2
4th 3 1 4 4 Weapon of Fire, Fire Immunity 3 2 2
5th 3 1 4 4 Fire Lash Enhancement +1 4 3 3
6th 4 2 5 5 Nimbus, Bonus Feat: 4 3 3
7th 5 2 5 5 Firewalk 5 4 4
8th 6 2 6 6 Fire Lash Enhancement +2 5 4 4
9th 6 3 6 6 Greater weapon afire, Bonus Feat: 6 5 5
10th 3.5 3 7 7 Conflagration 6 5 5

[mabriss lethe]

Ideas for making it more of an initiator class:
-access to diamond mind and desert wind:
-Modify at least some of the various pyro powers into special maneuvers/stances (or replace them with equivalent desert wind maneuvers).
-Develop some sort of synergy between psionics and manuevers: (My suggestion, base a recovery mechanic on expending psionic focus, perhaps a more effective version of the Psychic Renewal feat that doesn't use PP, and conversely, easing the action economy on regaining/maintaining focus as well. something like expending a maneuver to retain your focus when you otherwise would have to expend it.)

[kalos72]

Does the Weapon Afire and related skills benefit the fire lash as well? Need to work on feats that apply to the lash, or change the weapon type to spiked chain?

Also thinking about improving Fire Walk to remove the PP cost, swift action and double her base speed. Also thinking of adding something about jumping into a natural source of fire near you and out one within site as a form of jaunt related to fire?

Increasing the overall damage of each skill and most of their frequency.

Also like the ability improve the lash like Soulknife can.

I still need to go through the maneuvers and stances but I added the ability to acquire them now at least. Have to think about that synergy Mabriss mentioned too....

[kalos72]

Ok so is there a thread about posting guides here?

I can't copy and paste or anything and the formats are all crappy...

[kalos72]

I am not sure how to make this look all spiffy but....

Requirements
Alignment: Any chaotic.
Skills: Concentration 8 ranks, Knowledge (psionics) 2 ranks
Psionics: Must have a power point reserve of at least 1 powerpoint.
Special: Must have set fire to a structure of any size just to watch it burn.

Hit die
d10
Skill points
4 + Int
Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Pyrokineticists are proficient with all simple weapons, with their own fire lash, and with light armor and shields (except tower shields).

Fire Lash (Ps): A pyrokineticist gains the ability to fashion a 15-foot-long whip of fire from unstable ectoplasm as a free action in either or both hands. She takes no damage from a fire lash she creates, and if she releases her hold, it immediately dissipates. The lash deals 1d8 points of fire damage to a target within 15 feet on a successful ranged touch attack. A pyro can take Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization (if she otherwise meets the prerequisites) in conjunction with the fire lash, as well as any feats that apply to the use of a standard whip. The whip remains in existence as long as the pyrokineticist holds it. The whip is considered magical for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction.

Hand Afire (Ps): A pyrokineticist of 2nd level or higher can activate this ability as a swift action. Flames engulf one of the pyrokineticist’s hands (but do her no harm). Her unarmed attacks with that hand are treated as armed. Such attacks deal an extra 4d8 points of fire damage.

Bolt of Fire (Ps): Starting at 3rd level, as a swift action, a pyrokineticist can launch a bolt of psionically manifested fire at any target in line of sight within 120 feet. This effect is treated as a ranged touch attack and deals 2d8 points of fire damage for each class level the pyro has.

Weapon Afire (Ps): At 4th level and higher, a pyrokineticist can activate this ability as a swift action. Flames that harm neither her nor the weapon engulf one weapon she holds (which can be a projectile such as a stone, bullet, arrow, or bolt). The weapon deals an extra 4d8 points of fire damage on a successful hit. The weapon retains this effect for as long as the pyrokineticist wields it.

Fire Lash Enhancement (Ps): At 5th level, a pyrokineticist gains the ability to enhance his fire lash. He can add any one of the weapon special abilities that has an enhancement bonus value of +1. At every two levels beyond 5th (7th and 9th), the value of the enhancement a pyrokineticist can add to his weapon improves to +2 and +3, respectively. A pyrokineticist can choose any combination of weapon special abilities that does not exceed the total allowed by the pyrokineticist level.

The weapon ability or abilities remain the same every time the pyrokineticist materializes his fire lash (unless he decides to reassign its abilities; see below).

A pyrokineticist can reassign the ability or abilities he has added to his fire lash. To do so, he must first spend 8 hours in concentration. After that period, the fire lash materializes with the new ability or abilities selected by the pyrokineticist . For example, a 10th-level pyrokineticist might have initially chosen to imbue his fire lash with psychokinetic burst, a +2 weapon special ability. Every time he materializes the fire lash, it is a +2 psychokinetic burst mind blade. However, on learning that he may face a mind flayer the next day, he could take 8 hours to change his fire lash’s special ability from psychokinetic burst to mindcrusher.

Nimbus (Ps): Beginning at 6th level, a pyrokineticist can activate this ability as a swift action. Flames that harm neither the pyrokineticist nor her equipment engulf her entire body. While she is aflame, the character's Charisma score increases by 4, she can make a melee touch attack for 2d8 points of fire damage, and she gains damage reduction 5/magic for each three levels of Pyro past 5th level. If she is struck in melee, the attacker takes 2d8 points of fire damage for each three levels of Pyro past 5th level thereafter. This ability lasts for up to 10 minutes per pyrokineticist level and is usable three times per day.

Firewalk (Su): Beginning at 7th level, as a free action a pyrokineticist can expend her psionic focus (see the Concentration skill description, page 37) to literally walk on air. She moves at twice her normal speed in all directions, including vertically. A firewalking pyro leaves footprints of flame in the air that disperse in 2 rounds, but her tread does not deal damage. Also, the pyro can “jump” to and out of any open sources of fire within sight.

Greater Weapon Afire (Ps): At 8th level, when a pyrokineticist activates her hand afire ability or her weapon afire ability, her unarmed attack or weapon deals an extra 6d8 points of fire damage instead of 4d8. Touch attacks made while she uses the nimbus ability likewise deal 4d8 points of damage instead of 2d8.

Heat Death (Ps): A pyrokineticist who reaches 9th level can expend her psionic focus and take a full attack action to raise the internal temperature of one living creature within 30 feet to lethal levels. The target must succeed on a Fortitude saving throw (DC 14 + pyro's Cha modifier) or die horrifically as its blood (or other internal fluid) boils. Even on a successful save, the target takes 8d8 points of fire damage from the heat and is ignited for another 4d8 for 3 rounds.

Energy Control(Ps): At 9th level, a pyrokineticist gaines the ability to change the energy type they are using at any one time as a standard action, up to three times per day. All abilities change to the new energy type once the Energy Control ability is used and stay that energy until changed again by the pyrokineticist.

Conflagration (Ps): At 10th level, a pyrokineticist gains the ability to create a massive burst of raging flames around herself, burning everything in the area. Once per day, as a standard action, she can use this ability to deal 15d8 points of fire damage and ignite all enemies in a 60-foot-radius burst emanating from herself. Any creature or object caught in the burst can make a Reflex saving throw (DC 15 + pyro's Cha modifier) for half damage but is still ignited for 5d8 every round for 2 rounds. Anyone failing the Reflex save against the conflagration must also make a Fortitude saving throw (same DC) or die due to extreme shock from the intense heat.
Maneuvers: You begin your career with knowledge of two martial maneuvers. The disciplines available to you are Desert Wind, Diamond Mind, Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, Tiger Claw and White Raven
Your initiator level is determined by the combined total of any classes you have levels in at the time.

Maneuvers Readied: You can ready one of your two maneuvers known at 1st level, and as you advance in level and learn more maneuvers, you are able to ready more, but you must still choose which maneuvers to ready. You ready your maneuvers by meditating and exercising for 5 minutes. The maneuvers you choose remain readied until you decide to meditate again and change them. You need not sleep or rest for any long period of time to ready your maneuvers; any time you spend 5 minutes in meditation, you can change your readied maneuvers.

You begin an encounter with all your readied maneuvers unexpended, regardless of how many times you might have already used them since you chose them. When you initiate a maneuver, you expend it for the current encounter, so each of your readied maneuvers can be used once per encounter (unless you recover them, as described below).

You can recover an expended maneuver by using a full round action to quickly meditate. Doing this does not provoke attacks of opportunity. If you complete your meditation, you can choose one expended maneuver to refresh. It is now available for use in a subsequent round.

Stances Known: You begin play with knowledge of one 1st-level stance from any discipline open to you. At 3rd, 5th, 7th and 9th level, you can choose additional stances. Unlike maneuvers, stances are not expended, and you do not have to ready them. All the stances you know are available to you at all times, and you can change the stance you currently use as a swift action. A stance is an extraordinary ability unless otherwise stated in the stance description.
Unlike with maneuvers, you cannot learn a new stance at higher levels in place of one you already know.

[Manyasone]

You know, maybe use the pyro version Dreamscarred Press published in the Ultimate Psionics. Way better than the 3.5 WotC version

[kalos72]

Different fluff but pretty much the same I think.

Any thoughts on my slight rework?

I upped the dmg.frequency, changed some actions around, gave him the ability to modify his Fire Lash like a Soulknife can. I am not sure about the Energy Control bit, I love fire buts its pretty weak sometimes.

Maybe something to make his fire attacks harder to resist?

And then there is the Fire Walk addition...jumping through fire at a whole new level. :P

[ShurikVch]

How about the Kineticist (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030328b)? It's 3.0, but shouldn't be that difficult to adapt...

[BowStreetRunner]

Any thoughts on my slight rework?I tried going through this feature by feature, but honestly it seems like you are trying to go all Mary Sue with this class. Increased hit points, skill points, upping the damage on everything (20d8 Bolt of Fire in 10 levels...), range increases, a bunch of weapon and armor proficiencies, unlimited fire walking, and Martial Maneuvers in 7 disciplines to boot. You're actually making this out to be better in some ways than some of the full initiator classes. (Also, Fire Lash doesn't need to overcome DR, it's fire damage.)

Stick with subtle improvements to the class features where needed, and a modest addition of new class features and you'll be good.

I like changing the activation of Hand Afire and Weapon Afire to a swift action. It's not OP, but improves the utility of those features nicely.

There is no precedent for a PrC that grants initiator levels but has no prerequisite for initiator levels. Add a prerequisite 'Must know two maneuvers from either the Desert Wind or Diamond Mind disciplines', which they can either fulfill through levels in Swordsage, Warblade, or with the Martial Study feat. Desert Wind is the only fire-based discipline. Add Tumble to the Pyrokineticist class skills to go with this. Give them Diamond Mind too, that is the Concentration-based discipline. Then have the class give +1 maneuver known at every odd level, +1 maneuver readied every third level (3,6,9), and +1 stance at 5th level. That puts this right in line with other martial adept prestige classes.

You could redo some of the class features as maneuvers or stances too. For instance:

'At 2nd level, you learn another application for a stance you know. While you are in a stance from any discipline you know, you can forgo its normal benefit as a swift action to gain the effect of Hand Afire stance. This ability lasts as long as you would maintain the stance, or as described below. You can also stop using Hand Afire stance and resume gaining the normal benefit of the stance as a swift action.

While you are in the Hand Afire stance, flames engulf one of your hands (but do you no harm). Your unarmed attacks with that hand are treated as armed. Such attacks deal an extra 2d6 points of fire damage.'

[kalos72]

THANK YOU for the feedback!

My thought here was you are going to need at least 2 levels of something to get into this PRC, putting you somewhere around a 12-13th level wizard. At that level a wizard is casting 1d6 per level on chain lightning and it chains. But I guess since there is no cost, its a will and touch attacks, that dmg might be too high.

As for the Martial stuff, I tuned a swordsage down some with the totals and just used started with Desert Wind and White Raven. I am trying to keep this a martial psion not a psion martial if you get my meaning but I can tune it down some for sure.

I hadn't thought about any skills yet...Ill get working that too.

[BowStreetRunner]

It's a 10 level PrC, so the Prerequisites should be targeted to allow entry by 6th level. Concentration 8 ranks pretty much accomplishes this. It's a class skill for all Psionic base classes that I am aware, as well as for all Martial Adept base classes.

Craft (alchemy) was always a fluff requirement - hey, you can make Alchemist's Fire. Maybe add a class feature that works off of this. "Psychic Arson: A Pyrokineticist can spend 1 PP to 'overcharge' a flask of Alchemist's Fire. The liquid inside will begin to glow and when used as a splash weapon will do an extra 1d6 points of damage each round, and continue to burn for 1 extra round. The Alchemist's Fire must be thrown within 5 rounds of being overcharged, or it will explode on its own."

Knowledge (psionics) and a 1 pt power point reserve are just to encourage Psionic base class use, although Wild Talents and Psionic Races can qualify.

Adding the requirement for two maneuvers from either the Desert Wind or Diamond Mind disciplines encourages a level in Swordsage or Warblade or else two Martial Study feats.

[mabriss lethe]

Fire Lash: I would completely nix the soulknife-like aspect of your modified fire lash. The 8 hour downtime to rework your weapon is a terrible mechanic and shouldn't be propagated. PK is all about fire, to the exclusion of everything else, and weapon aflame already augments its damage and it relies on touch attacks, so doesn't really need much in the way of standard weapon augmentation. Instead, give it some sort of bonus when used in conjunction with Desert Wind and Diamond Mind maneuvers. It could boost save DCs of maneuver that requires one, or something.

Fire walk: This looks like the perfect place for a stance replacement, using similar mechanics to Jade Phoenix Mage. Keep your movement wording the same as the original, but for your cost Expend your focus while in a stance to alter it into a fire walk. It's a nice tradeoff in terms of opportunity costs. You get a really useful form of movement, a bit more powerful than a lot of movement stances iirc, but you pay for it with your focus, and the opportunity cost of other stances.

In keeping with that, Here's a fun ability that I think would work well: It would be a good mid-level ability, or possibly 2 abilities: 1. Sacrifice a readied DW maneuver in place of psionic focus, and conversely. 2. Sacrifice psionic focus as a swift to recover a spent maneuver.

[kalos72]

Ok so from the feedback:

I have reduced some of my dmg increases, but they are still at least a die better than original. My concern is, since flame lash is the primary weapon, and fire has alot of counters or races who are out right immune, isn't it kinda weak on its own? Maybe make this psionically manifested fire more potent and add difficulty in resisting it or does the Energy Control skill work for that?

I assume we all agree that the Afire abilities add to the flame lash too?

Also the reason I liked the enhancement piece, to give the pyro the ability to adjust to meat thier foe. I didnt think about the 8hrs, maybe force a psionic focus to change instead?

Reduced HD and skill points

Changed Skills/Maneuvers: Skills: Concentration 8 ranks, Knowledge (psionics) 2 ranks, Tumble, 2 ranks, Diplomacy 2 ranks
Maneuvers: Must know two maneuvers from either the Desert Wind, Diamond Mind or White Raven disciplines.