Making a martial artist incarnum user?

[Braininthejar2]

I need some advice for my Baldur's Gate II campaign.

If the party survives the next two sessions, it's Balthazar next.

I want his power to manifest as incarnum magic (most likely soulborn) at his equivalent level (otherwise he's an epic monk/unarmed swordsage)

The thing is, I'm quite new to incarnum users. What should I give him to best compliment such a build?

EDIT:

Okay.

So, with his divine blood giving him essentia points to burn, one double chakra, and one feat used on cross-class soulmeld, he has two diferent unarmed damage bonuses, DR and ability damage reduction, immunity to con damage, true sight, flight, and force punches.

As for the actual build, I bumped him to 27, and went monk 2, fighter 4, swordsage 20, warblade 1 - enough to give him full BAB, basic monk abilities, and lots of feats, including 3 epic feats, which I invested in deflect arrows line - allowing him to catch and throw back multiple ray attacks per turn.

Now, what is left is mind blank, freedom of movement, some buff dispel protection, and sublime revelry to keep him in the fight. That can be solved through equipment, I think.

Now, since he'll be facing an oversized epic party, he needs everything to stack the odds in his favour, or else he'll die from simple action economy.

So, what else can he do? He already has some monk/swordsage disciples to fight by his side, a bunch of inevitables to spam wall of force / greater dispel, and a bunch of angels to buff/heal his team, and a dimension-locked stronghold that prevents escape through teleport, or astral travel shenanigans.

But I have a feeling that it still won't be enough.

[Braininthejar2]

70 views, no replies.

Does it mean nobody here uses Incarnum much?

[Nousos]

It depends on what you want him to do. I'd say ignore soulborn unless you want to homebrew it a bit, i think most people agree it's half a class.

Just seeing monk/swordsage I'd say give your boss some totemist melds for all the natural attacks and some neat defensive capabilities. Maybe toss in the feat beast strike to stack unarmed and claw damage.

But I'm no expert on incarnum. People will probably give more feedback if you give some info on what you want him to do.

Edit-maybe glance through an incarnum guide and see what catches your eye. Both classes have utility and some combat prowess. Totemist can be a melee monster so that would likely work well with a boss if nothing else than the player's reaction when they see what his full attack can do. Any decent soulborn only melds can be picked up with a feat.

[Quarian Rex]

Or perhaps take a look at Akashic Mysteries (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/akashic-mysteries). It's the Pathfinder version of Incarnum and basically takes the same ideas but does them right. Sounds like you might want a Daeva or perhaps a Guru depending on how you want to play the monk angle.

[Extra Anchovies]

Totemists make good chargers. Totemist 6/Swordsage 14 gets plenty of incarnum goodies without giving up the highest-level maneuvers or stances.
Sphinx Claws bound to hands offers pounce with natural weapons.
Kruthik Claws bound to totem gives two claw attacks dealing 1d6 (+1d4 acid per point of essentia). Also +4 to Hide and Move Silently, +2 per point of essentia.
Thunderstep Boots (available via Shape Soulmeld feat) shaped to feet adds 1d4 sonic (+1d4 per point of essentia) to charge attacks.
Beast Strike feat (http://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/feat/Beast_Strike) adds claw damage to unarmed strike attacks.
Bonus Essentia feat gives 2 points of essentia, quite good for just about any meldshaper.
Cobalt Charge feat gives +essentia to attack and damage rolls on charge attacks, but locks up invested essentia for the entire day. Also gives 1 point of essentia.
Using Azurin as Balthazar's race gives 1 point of essentia.

All together that's an essentia pool of 8, enough to fill two soulmelds or one soulmeld and one incarnum feat. (also hypothetically two incarnum feats, leaving no essentia available at all until the next day. please do not do this) Spare feat slots could possibly be spent on random other incarnum feats simply for more essentia, each such feat effectively being either +1 hit/damage or +1d4 damage on charge attacks. That doesn't seem great but hey, better than Weapon Focus :smallwink:

Either way, that setup leaves two free soulmelds. Wormtail Belt (+2+essentia natural armor) is a nice option because it's useful even when you don't dedicate any essentia or actions to it. Basilisk Mask offers low-light vision and darkvision. Blink Shirt allows standard-action short-range teleportation. Kruthik Claws give a hefty bonus to Hide and Move Silently and many other soulmelds also increase those skills, so Balthazar could get his sneak on.

Instead of the magical beast fluff, Balthazar's totemist meldshaping could be a consequence of his unusual heritage.

Incarnate 6/Swordsage 14 would be a closer fit fluffwise, if the natural-weapons build isn't to your liking. Bonus Essentia, Azurin, and an incarnum feat adds up to 10 essentia with a cap of 5. Lawful Incarnate Avatar gives +1 to melee attack rolls per point of essentia; 6 levels of Incarnate costs 2 BAB relative to pure Swordsage, and 2 BAB for +5 to hit is a mighty fine trade if you ask me. Lightning Gauntlets bound to hands can add +6d6 electricity damage to one attack per round, so it would fit quite nicely with a Swordsage maneuver selection heavy on single-attack strikes. That leaves two soulmelds and one bind open for mobility, defense, skill boosts, or whatever else Balthazar needs on any given day.

[Kelb_Panthera]

If you're doing it by levels, I'd sooner go for incarnate than totemist. 5 levels gets you greater capacity and rapid meldshaping, both of which are huge boons to working with incarnum, and incarnate melds have a bit more flexibility than totemist melds. More importantly, incarnate melds give you more defensive options, like the impulse boots or adamant pauldrons, which you kind of lack with mostly swordsage levels.

In any case, soulborn is really only useful in two circumstances; you want to play one straight-up or you need early level filler for a PrC and want something incarnum flavored but can't lose BAB. It's just not a powerful class on its own, by any stretch of the imagination, and doesn't give you much to build on.

[Braininthejar2]

It depends on what you want him to do. I'd say ignore soulborn unless you want to homebrew it a bit, i think most people agree it's half a class.

I want him to be a serene monk covered in glowing tattoos, who stays very apologetic as he throws people through walls, deals palm strikes that shatter ribs and rupture organs, and incinerates fodder summons with golden fire.

Soulborn being "half a class" isn't a problem, as his actual build is mostly swordsage - his incarnum power comes from an outside source, effectively making it a sort of unique template.

The tattoos would either be "items", or a visual representation of incarnum effects, whichever lets him use his item slots more efficiently.

Making him hit like a truck isn't a problem - I'm currently looking for ways to increase his survivability - I expect attacks that hit constitution (such as blood to water), buff dispels, and most importantly pouncers


Or perhaps take a look at Akashic Mysteries.

I will, time permitting. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

[Extra Anchovies]

Making him hit like a truck isn't a problem - I'm currently looking for ways to increase his survivability - I expect attacks that hit constitution (such as blood to water), buff dispels, and most importantly pouncers

Strongheart Vest reduces ability damage by (1+essentia). Spellward Shirt gives spell resistance of (5+4*essentia). Those are decently strong defenses and Incarnate 6 with the right feats can keep them both at the cap of 5 essentia simultaneously.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Or perhaps take a look at Akashic Mysteries (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/akashic-mysteries). It's the Pathfinder version of Incarnum and basically takes the same ideas but does them right. Sounds like you might want a Daeva or perhaps a Guru depending on how you want to play the monk angle.

If they want more Monk with a dash of incarnum/akasha, the Monk actually has an archetype in that book (Mysterial) that gives it some

[noce]

Go umbral disciple.
Monk friendly, monkish flavor, incarnum-powered miss chance (40%), incarnum-powered reach (25 feet), hide in plain sight.

[Braininthejar2]

Strongheart Vest reduces ability damage by (1+essentia). Spellward Shirt gives spell resistance of (5+4*essentia). Those are decently strong defenses and Incarnate 6 with the right feats can keep them both at the cap of 5 essentia simultaneously.

What about damage reduction? I could of course feat him into a warblade stance for that, but that could be sub-optimal.

[Manyasone]

I will, time permitting. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Ooh, ooh. Forcestrike knuckles! Really, this one is gold for any unarmed user

[Zaq]

What about damage reduction? I could of course feat him into a warblade stance for that, but that could be sub-optimal.

If DR/Magic is good enough, the Astral Vambraces (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20060217a) give it to you just for shaping them, not even for binding them. It also provides the best return on investment; 2 points just for the meld, and then 2 more per essentia. (The heart bind of the Totem Avatar is strictly worse.) The Wind Cloak also provides DR/magic at the same rate as the Astral Vambraces, but it only applies to ranged weapons.

If you need DR that isn't broken by magic, the Adamant Pauldrons give DR/your opposite alignment, but only 1 point per essentia and no points just for the meld (though the meld does provide 25% fortification just for shaping it).

[Braininthejar2]

Okay.

So, with his divine blood giving him essentia points to burn, one double chakra, and one feat used on cross-class soulmeld, he has two diferent unarmed damage bonuses, DR and ability damage reduction, immunity to con damage, true sight, flight, and force punches.

As for the actual build, I bumped him to 27, and went monk 2, fighter 4, swordsage 20, warblade 1 - enough to give him full BAB, basic monk abilities, and lots of feats, including 3 epic feats, which I invested in deflect arrows line - allowing him to catch and throw back multiple ray attacks per turn.

Now, what is left is mind blank, freedom of movement, some buff dispel protection, and sublime revelry to keep him in the fight. That can be solved through equipment, I think.

Now, since he'll be facing an oversized epic party, he needs everything to stack the odds in his favour, or else he'll die from simple action economy.

So, what else can he do? He already has some monk/swordsage disciples to fight by his side, a bunch of inevitables to spam wall of force / greater dispel, and a bunch of angels to buff/heal his team, and a dimension-locked stronghold that prevents escape through teleport, or astral travel shenanigans.

But I have a feeling that it still won't be enough.

[Andor13]

Now, since he'll be facing an oversized epic party, he needs everything to stack the odds in his favour, or else he'll die from simple action economy.

Hmm... Since he's kind of outside the norm anyway, you could dip further into Pathfinder and swap one of his Swordsage disciplines for Riven Hourglass? (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/disciplines-and-maneuvers/riven-hourglass-maneuvers/)

It's basically chock full of abuses to the action economy and has some amazing defenses like Temporal Body Adjustment and Heart of the Time Lord.

[Bonzai]

My advice would be to skip the base class and go Monk/umbral disciple. Umbral Disciple is a great PrC. It gives you essentia, bonuses to various monk skills, provides useful abilities, and will let you eventually flurry from 20 feet away and deal strength damage.

[Braininthejar2]

This campaign has a houserule for iteratives, stopping the penalty at -5.

This looked like a good idea 10 levels ago, but now it results in some pretty horrible pouncers.

Right now Balthazar,s damage is base damage + strength bonus, +insight bonus (bluesteel bracers) + enhancement bonus (amulet of mighty fists) + morale bonus (mauling gauntlets) + dexterity bonus (shadow blade feat), and he can be expected to hit with 6 attacks in total.

[Kelb_Panthera]

This campaign has a houserule for iteratives, stopping the penalty at -5.

This looked like a good idea 10 levels ago, but now it results in some pretty horrible pouncers.

Right now Balthazar,s damage is base damage + strength bonus, +insight bonus (bluesteel bracers) + enhancement bonus (amulet of mighty fists) + morale bonus (mauling gauntlets) + dexterity bonus (shadow blade feat), and he can be expected to hit with 6 attacks in total.

It has been my experience that -most- houserules break at least as much as they fix, a fair number just flatly make things worse because the GM doesn't understand what he's doing at all, and vanishingly few are pure benefit to the game.

If you're way, way down in a core only or -maybe- a core plus completes game, there's a lot more room to move things around but the more you add, splat-wise, the more things become dependent on the base symptoms of the game remaining true. The game is better designed than it gets credit for these days, possibly than it ever did.