The right amount of DMPC

[Jorgo]

So my players (of which there are 3) are starting Sunless Citadel 5e. I worry that they will get butchered, since I recently beat the Sunless Citadel with much difficulty in a party of 6. Is it inappropriate to give them an NPC under my control who follows quietly and pretty much just helps stab bad guys?

[nickl_2000]

So my players (of which there are 3) are starting Sunless Citadel 5e. I worry that they will get butchered, since I recently beat the Sunless Citadel with much difficulty in a party of 6. Is it inappropriate to give them an NPC under my control who follows quietly and pretty much just helps stab bad guys?

Inappropiate, no. Dangerous, yes. Mostly dangerous because DMs often defend DMPCs more than they should and they take over in the situation. It would be better for you to reduce some of the challenges to fit the 3 players than throw in a DMPC.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

I ran through a large chunk of Sunless Citadel with just 3 lvl. 2 PCs. Things only went bad once one of them got drunk and became "Suicidally Aggressive", e.g. getting downed in a fight, getting dragged out by the fighter and given a health potion then immidiately charging right back into the center of the fight.

What I'm saying is it depends on how much of a challenge you think you're party is up for. My players were very experienced gamers and delighted in pushing themselves, so no help from an NPC or toning down of encounters was nessesary.

[Armored Walrus]

If you let them exit the dungeon or if they are smart about finding ways to rest, then they shouldn't have too much trouble. If they just go from room to room, not noticing that they are out of all their spell slots and abilities, then they will die horribly. There aren't many really hard fights in there unless they mess up and bring multiple rooms down on themselves at once.

May want to just advise them that if they find themselves in any situation in which the enemies outnumber them, then they need to retreat to an area of the dungeon where they can control how many of them can fight at once, like a doorway or a corner, rather than stand and fight.

As long as they don't find their way past the Arcane Locked door and fight that troll until they level up.

Per your actual question, though, a DMPC heal bot isn't usually seen as obnoxious by most small groups IME. But don't forget they have ample opportunities to make allies of their own while in there.

Note that you could also do a bit of overland adventure getting there so that they are level 2 before they walk in. Like, fight some twig blights in town, and then a few more on the way. Just enough to level them, and then maybe advise them to camp out on the front porch before they go in, so they go in fresh.

[GlenSmash!]

Will it be a DMPC built with character levels, or will it be an actual NPC like a stat block form the PHB or VGtM?

The first is worse IMHO. It takes more spotlight from the Players and is a lot more for a DM to manage, than just grabbing Champion or Warlord statblock from Volos and giving them a motivation to team up with the PCs.

[Unoriginal]

You could have them meet a character with a personality and a NPC statblock during the adventure, possibly in a bad situation that require the group's intervention, and have said character help the group as thanks.

They would take a share of the XP, though.

[Armored Walrus]

You could have them meet a character with a personality and a NPC statblock during the adventure, possibly in a bad situation that require the group's intervention, and have said character help the group as thanks.

They would take a share of the XP, though.

That literally already exists in the module as written.

[Theodoxus]

Make it a PPC - party PC. As DM, feel free to roll up whatever you think will help the party and introduce it to your players, but let them control it. Either one guy takes total control, or the players can take turns dictating what happens.

It does make the PPC a little schizophrenic if the players are taking control frequently, but that could also be an interesting trait.

I've started doing that for smaller parties after one group obtained a Deck of Many Things and summoned a 4th level fighter as a follower.

Works better than me running a character on top of everything else, and being constantly asked "What does [DMPC] think we should do?"

[Unoriginal]

That literally already exists in the module as written.

The halfling Acolyte, right?

Doesn't hurt to add one, though, as long as they don't force the PCs to go on training wheels all the way.

A Scout could be pretty useful. They have good skill proficiencies and more than decent attacks.

[Dyndrilliac]

Make it a PPC - party PC. As DM, feel free to roll up whatever you think will help the party and introduce it to your players, but let them control it. Either one guy takes total control, or the players can take turns dictating what happens.

It does make the PPC a little schizophrenic if the players are taking control frequently, but that could also be an interesting trait.

I've started doing that for smaller parties after one group obtained a Deck of Many Things and summoned a 4th level fighter as a follower.

Works better than me running a character on top of everything else, and being constantly asked "What does [DMPC] think we should do?"

This is the correct way to do this. I came in to the thread to say exactly this same thing. In my experience, a DMPC should be the last resort. There are times when it is called for, but they are very rare and in most cases you are better off letting the players control an NPC henchman as opposed to running a DMPC. If you do decide to run a DMPC, he should be there purely to assist in combat and nothing else unless requested by the PCs. He should avoid delivering death blows (players should be the ones deciding which defeated foes will live or die). Otherwise, you are just going to end up stealing at least some of the spotlight from the players.

[LudicSavant]

So my players (of which there are 3) are starting Sunless Citadel 5e. I worry that they will get butchered, since I recently beat the Sunless Citadel with much difficulty in a party of 6. Is it inappropriate to give them an NPC under my control who follows quietly and pretty much just helps stab bad guys?

I'd advise against this. Adding in a character who is expected to shoulder the burdens of overcoming the module's challenges in a PC-like fashion has the potential to do an awful lot to undermine the gameplay. And Sunless Citadel should be plenty doable with 3 people.

[GlenSmash!]

Make it a PPC - party PC. As DM, feel free to roll up whatever you think will help the party and introduce it to your players, but let them control it. Either one guy takes total control, or the players can take turns dictating what happens.

It does make the PPC a little schizophrenic if the players are taking control frequently, but that could also be an interesting trait.

I've started doing that for smaller parties after one group obtained a Deck of Many Things and summoned a 4th level fighter as a follower.

Works better than me running a character on top of everything else, and being constantly asked "What does [DMPC] think we should do?"

As a player I hate running another character. I try to think as much like my own character as possible that switching between two would irk me to no end.

Of course YMMV.

[Theodoxus]

As a player I hate running another character. I try to think as much like my own character as possible that switching between two would irk me to no end.

Of course YMMV.

I get that - and I have a couple guys at my table with the same sentiment. I certainly don't force folks to play with a second character (and loath things like OotA where they basically force it on everyone) - but if someone is eager (or at least willing) to play two characters (especially if one has less personality and is just the extra DPR and equipment mule), it's far preferable to me having to run it as a DM.

[Honest Tiefling]

I'd let them decide. Some might have had bad experiences with DMPCs in the past, and will react badly no matter what you do. However, what's the harm in asking them OoCly if they mind, or having an NPC offer assistance after a grueling fight? Then it is well under their power.

Also consider NOT having the guy follow quietly. Consider the idea of an NPC that is a little less powerful than the party who asks them questions because they are way in over their head. Perhaps a bit pandering, but most players want to feel like they have the freedom of choice that only a pen and paper RPG can fulfill. This way the NPC is still involved and is a character, but isn't likely to take away their freedom anytime soon. Or if they try, they are going to clearly die for it.

However, while I have not played this module, I do caution against having a stabby NPC as the party ally unless the group is doing something strange like three life clerics. Most people enjoy the stabbing/burinating themselves, so unless there's a good reason (lack of a few key skills, and you have a good backstory for a rogue), I really must suggest a support role for an NPC for most groups.

[GlenSmash!]

I get that - and I have a couple guys at my table with the same sentiment. I certainly don't force folks to play with a second character (and loath things like OotA where they basically force it on everyone) - but if someone is eager (or at least willing) to play two characters (especially if one has less personality and is just the extra DPR and equipment mule), it's far preferable to me having to run it as a DM.

I dunno. I've seen DMs have an NPC group up with the party in a lot of adventures an it was fine. Ripe with plot hooks even.

We players always had to discuss whether or not the NPC would turn against us (usually assuming they would) and whether or not we wanted to preemptively murderhobo our way through the NPC or not.

As long as the DM never considered the NPC their own player character I see no problem whatsoever.

It probably just boils down to preference I guess.

[MaxWilson]

So my players (of which there are 3) are starting Sunless Citadel 5e. I worry that they will get butchered, since I recently beat the Sunless Citadel with much difficulty in a party of 6. Is it inappropriate to give them an NPC under my control who follows quietly and pretty much just helps stab bad guys?

Playing against yourself while players look on is no fun at all. If you feel like they need extra bodies, I'd recommend giving them henchmen instead, nominally under DM control (like all NPCs) but in practice under player control unless the player wants them to do something obviously out of character like commit suicide.

(You can also still control the henchmen during out-of-combat activities like conversation and making camp, if you want to. But of course players can still make requests, like "I tell Bartolomus [henchman] to set up tents while I scout ahead.")

[Potato_Priest]

I had a dm once who was pretty terrible in general (his worldbuilding was ridiculously full of epic level Mary Sue NPCs) but he seemed to have the art of the DMPC figured out in a way that didn’t actually hurt player fun.

The DMPC was a life cleric who was also a mute, so the “what does ____ think we should do” problem was solved. In combat, one of the players would choose her actions. Although I don’t think we needed a DMPC, that one was totally fine and non-objectionable.

[Kane0]

DMPCs are not inherently bad, they just have a stigma attached to them because of how easy it is for them to be taken advantage of by more egotistical DMs.

If you have a party of 3 ask them if they are interested in a hireling before they start, and offer 2-3 potential candidates at the hiring hall or whatever. Just make sure they are relatively unobtrusive and the players can handle it from there.

[Asmotherion]

Creative ways to include this stuff:

-"Bound Elemental" (Use a Genasi in a Lamp idea, give control of it to the one holding the Lamp, as it's "temporary master".

-Shield Guardian. If you don't feel like RPing/overshadowing the group, and want to contribute more subtly in "absorbing" damage, get them a Shield Guardian Companion. Or an Abjuration Wizard. Have a character not fluent in common. Generally try not to be in the spotlight as much as you can.

[Davrix]

The best way is to run the game as normal, maybe tweak things down a little. if they find a battle they cant win try to think of a reason to either let them get away or have the bad guys beat them up take some of their stuff and kick them to the curb laughing. Before this happenes make sure you dropped hints of the local mercs hanging around town or even a temple or hunters guild they might have access to. DM PC's work much better as a whole when the party goes looking for them.

[Unoriginal]

The best way is to run the game as normal, maybe tweak things down a little. if they find a battle they cant win try to think of a reason to either let them get away or have the bad guys beat them up take some of their stuff and kick them to the curb laughing. Before this happenes make sure you dropped hints of the local mercs hanging around town or even a temple or hunters guild they might have access to. DM PC's work much better as a whole when the party goes looking for them.

It's true you can always tweak the adventure to be more proportionately easy for 3 people.

But then again, modules aren't calculated with precise CR-per-Adventure ratios. It's more "here is a bad guy, do you want to handle them?" with no right or wrong answer.

[Rowan Wolf]

My last DMPC was a trap/locksmith so for most of the campaign he was and abstract number of hit points and a skill check modifier with a personality.

The worst DMPC I've played along side was a full Vistani 'chosen one' so th hat may have effected how I 'play' DMPCs.

[Luccan]

If all they are is a warm body that knows which end of a sword to stick in the bad guys, you aren't in any danger. DMPCs are bad because they're taking the role of Player Characters, not because they're competent henchmen or allies. A guy with a personality and background or goals the PCs can explore when they want to isn't a DMPC. They're an NPC you've tried to make interesting enough to interact with long term. The difference between an NPC and a DMPC is a DMPC becomes a/the main character (even if the DM claims they totally aren't). Their actions move the plot, independent of the Players. They might be more tied into the plot personally than the PCs. The often given examples are usually OP or entirely unique (though this isn't necessarily the case, nor is a unique NPC automatically bad. These are just warning signs). You can still have a DM's Pet NPC (see: most famous NPC wizards from D&D writers) so watch for that, but a guy who gets a bit stabby shouldn't fall into that territory if you're aware and alert.