Reaction first round

[BeefGood]

Can you take a reaction, on the first round of combat, before your turn? If yes, then when can you take a second reaction—at any time during the second round, or during the second round during/after your turn?

[Christopher K.]

You can take a reaction before your first turn in combat as long as whatever triggers that reaction has occurred. You can take another reaction at any time after your turn has occurred, so in theory you could take a second reaction before the first round ends, again, assuming that whatever triggers that reaction has occurred.

[AvvyR]

Rules regarding reactions are:


When you take a reaction, you can't take another one
until the start of your next turn. If the reaction interrupts
another creature's turn, that creature can continue its
turn right after the reaction.

So, you may take a reaction on your first turn. You get it back at the start of your second turn.

Unless you are surprised.


If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action
on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a
reaction until that turn ends.

[Kane0]

Once you roll initiative you can use your reaction, and you get your reaction back after your turn.

If you are surprised you cannot take reactions.

[BeefGood]

Thanks for responses. I should have specified in first post:
(1) Assume no surprise.
(2) Assume that, on every turn, some circumstance grants you a reaction. For example, opponents perpetually run by you, leaving your reach and triggering an opportunity attack.

Seems agreed that you can take a reaction as soon as the first round of combat starts. You can take a reaction on Round 1 Initiative 20 even if your turn is not until Initiative 12. But there might not be agreement about when you can take another reaction.

"When you take a reaction, you can't take another one until the start of your next turn."


in theory you could take a second reaction before the first round ends

Depends on what "next turn" means. Say your initiative is 12 and we're at the beginning of combat, Round 1 Initiative 20 (1.20). When is your "next turn"?
--If your "next turn" is 1.12, you can take another reaction at or after 1.12. You can take two reactions in the first round of combat--one reaction before your turn and one reaction during or after your turn.
--if your "next turn" is 2.12, then you can't take another reaction until 2.12.

I think that your "next turn" is 1.12, so you can in principle take two reactions in the first round of combat. That seems RAW but I'm not sure it's RAI.

[DMThac0]

Depends on what "next turn" means. Say your initiative is 12 and we're at the beginning of combat, Round 1 Initiative 20 (1.20). When is your "next turn"?
--If your "next turn" is 1.12, you can take another reaction at or after 1.12. You can take two reactions in the first round of combat--one reaction before your turn and one reaction during or after your turn.
--if your "next turn" is 2.12, then you can't take another reaction until 2.12.

I think that your "next turn" is 1.12, so you can in principle take two reactions in the first round of combat. That seems RAW but I'm not sure it's RAI.

This is where people generally tend to over think things.

Turn 1, initiative 20, creature runs by you, you get an OA.
Turn 1, initiative 12, you do your thing.
Turn 1, initiative 8, creature runs by you, you do not get an OA because the turn is still 1 and you've already used your Reaction.

[Tanarii]

Depends on what "next turn" means. Say your initiative is 12 and we're at the beginning of combat, Round 1 Initiative 20 (1.20). When is your "next turn"?
--If your "next turn" is 1.12, you can take another reaction at or after 1.12. You can take two reactions in the first round of combat--one reaction before your turn and one reaction during or after your turn.
--if your "next turn" is 2.12, then you can't take another reaction until 2.12.

I think that your "next turn" is 1.12, so you can in principle take two reactions in the first round of combat. That seems RAW but I'm not sure it's RAI.Turn is the creature's initiative count. A creatures "next turn" after a reaction is the next one after the reaction is taken. I can't see any way to interpret "next turn" to mean 2 turns later.

[Malifice]

Can you take a reaction, on the first round of combat, before your turn? If yes, then when can you take a second reaction—at any time during the second round, or during the second round during/after your turn?

1. Yes (unless surprised; if you're surprised you cant take a reaction until after your first turn ends on round one, with you doing that turn)

2. Your reactions reset at the start of your turn.

You're' thinking they're round by round. They're not, they're turn by turn.

Example: Bunch of Orcs leap and start shooting arrows at Bob (Wizard) and Charlie (Monk). The DM understands how the rules work so he does not do anything as amateur as 'resolving an attack outside of initiative'. He does the right thing and asks for initiative. Good on him.

The 4 combatants (2 Orcs and 2 PCs) roll initiative. The order is Orc, Bob, Charlie, Orc. Bob and Charlie are surprised on round one.

Round 1:

1) Orc 1 goes first and his arrow attack is resolved. He shoots at Bob. He hits Bob. Bob has the Shield spell but cannot use it as he is surprised and cannot yet take reactions. Bob takes damage.

2) Bob goes next. Bob is surprised. Bob takes no actions on his turn, and his turn ends. He can now use reactions.

3) Charlie goes next. Charlie is surprised. Charlie takes no actions on his turn, and his turn ends. He can now use reactions.

4) Orc 2 goes last and his arrow attack is resolved. He shoots at Charlie. He hits Charlie. Charlie is a Monk, and uses his reaction to activate his Deflect arrows ability. Charlie takes no damage.

Round 1 ends, round 2 begins.

1) Orc 1 wants to show off. He turns from Bob to shoot at Charlie. He hits Charlie (the Orcs are on a streak). Charlie is a Monk, but has used his reaction already last round to activate his Deflect arrows ability. He wont get it back till the start of his next turn later this round. Charlie takes damage.

2) Bob goes next. He is no longer surprised so he can finally take actions. Bob announces he wants to reach into his bag of holding, polymorph into an Ancient copper dragon and flood the universe with infinite wish spamming clones of himself as part of a plan towards global genocide. This despite the fact he's NG in alignment and 'only engaging in said murderous genocide of millions for the greater good.' He and the DM come to blows, and he boots Bob from the game, Bobs Wizard disappearing underneath a torrent of rocks falling from the sky.

3.5) Everyone gets on the with the game, over beer and pretzels glad that Bob has left.

4) Charlie goes next. His reactions now reset at the start of his turn. He uses his action to Dash away at high speed from the sudden rockfall.

[AvvyR]

This is where people generally tend to over think things.

Turn 1, initiative 20, creature runs by you, you get an OA.
Turn 1, initiative 12, you do your thing.
Turn 1, initiative 8, creature runs by you, you do not get an OA because the turn is still 1 and you've already used your Reaction.


You're confusing rounds and turns. "Your next turn" means your next initiative count. Reactions don't "recharge" when the initiative resets and you enter the next round. They "recharge" when your initiative comes up and you begin your turn. In the example given, you could take both OA's, but could not take another one on Round 2, initiative 20.

The round/turn difference is also why rogues can sneak attack multiple times per round using OA's, Commander's strike, etc. because it's per turn.

[Tanarii]

This is where people generally tend to over think things.

Turn 1, initiative 20, creature runs by you, you get an OA.
Turn 1, initiative 12, you do your thing.
Turn 1, initiative 8, creature runs by you, you do not get an OA because the turn is still 1 and you've already used your Reaction.
You're confusing rounds and turns. "Your next turn" means your next initiative count. Reactions don't "recharge" when the initiative resets and you enter the next round. They "recharge" when your initiative comes up and you begin your turn. In the example given, you could take both OA's, but could not take another one on Round 2, initiative 20.

The round/turn difference is also why rogues can sneak attack multiple times per round using OA's, Commander's strike, etc. because it's per turn.
Yeah, it's definitely not right. Turn 1 for that PC is on Initiative 12 only.

So far as I know, there's no reason to ever track what round it is, other than the start of Round 1 being the start of battle.

[DMThac0]

You're confusing rounds and turns. "Your next turn" means your next initiative count. Reactions don't "recharge" when the initiative resets and you enter the next round. They "recharge" when your initiative comes up and you begin your turn. In the example given, you could take both OA's, but could not take another one on Round 2, initiative 20.

The round/turn difference is also why rogues can sneak attack multiple times per round using OA's, Commander's strike, etc. because it's per turn.


Yeah, it's definitely not right. Turn 1 for that PC is on Initiative 12 only.

So far as I know, there's no reason to ever track what round it is, other than the start of Round 1 being the start of battle.

I can see how you guys get to the conclusion that you do, I still don't feel it's correct. However, it's not really that big of a deal in the long run, though it does make me consider how that might work with legendary/lair functions.

[BeefGood]

Just looked at Sage Advice Compendium to remind myself of the Rogue-multiple-sneak-attack thing and was surprised to see this:
"Because you get only one reaction per round, you’re unlikely to use Sneak Attack more than twice in a round: once with your action and once with your reaction."
It's at the top of page 5. JC says one reaction per round, not one reaction per turn. If this is the case, then if you take a reaction at 1.20, then you can't take another reaction until round 2. Your initiative count doesn't matter.
Wait: your initiative count does matter, because "When you take a reaction, you can't take another one until the start of your next turn." So if you get one reaction per round, and you take a reaction at 1.20, then you can't take another reaction until your initiative count in round 2.

[Contrast]

I can see how you guys get to the conclusion that you do, I still don't feel it's correct. However, it's not really that big of a deal in the long run, though it does make me consider how that might work with legendary/lair functions.

They're definitely right. See the para on the first page of the combat section of the PHB (p189, 'The Order of Combat') for the difference between rounds and turns.

Understanding the difference is quite important for understanding how a number of spells and abilities work.

[Tanarii]

He says one reaction per round because you only get one reaction per each of your turns. And its one round from the start of your turn to the start of your next turn. If he said per turn, he"d be saying you get one rection per each creatures turn, which clearly you do not.

There is zero chance he is refering to round as in from initiative 20+mod to initiative 1. Because nothing in 5e tracks rounds that way except initiative itself.

[AvvyR]

The section on initiative clearly defines rounds from turns.


Initiative determines the order of turns during combat.
When combat starts, every participant makes a
Dexterity check to determine their place in the initiative
order. The DM makes one roll for an entire group of
identical creatures, so each member of the group acts at
the same time.
The DM ranks the combatants in order from the one
with the highest Dexterity check total to the one with
the lowest. This is the order (called the initiative order)
in which they act during each round. The initiative order
remains the same from round to round.

And again, the section on reactions clearly states you can use it again as soon as you begin your turn.


When you take a reaction, you can't take another one
until the start of your next turn.

Sounds to me like JC just misspoke a bit with the terms on that SA, or he's referring to "round" meaning "full round" as in "one point on the initiative until that same point in the next round" rather than "first initiative to last initiative."

[Tanarii]

Sounds to me like JC just misspoke a bit with the terms on that SA, or he's referring to "round" meaning "full round" as in "one point on the initiative until that same point in the next round" rather than "first initiative to last initiative."He didn't mispeak, he's definitely referring to the latter, it's once per start of a creatures initiative to the next start of the creatures initiative, which is once per round. If he had said turn, people would have pointed out that it's not once per turn. Because it isn't. That would mean that it comes up between each and every creature's turn.

[BeefGood]

He didn't mispeak, he's definitely referring to the latter, it's once per start of a creatures initiative to the next start of the creatures initiative

That's certainly a reasonable interpretation, but I'm not 100% sold on it. If he had meant one-reaction-per-your-turn he could have said something like "Because you get only one reaction per each of your turns". But he did not.

[Demonslayer666]

I have always played it as you do not start with your reaction, and you get it at the start of your turn.

Kinda like flat footed.

[BeefGood]

I have always played it as you do not start with your reaction, and you get it at the start of your turn.
.

This seems good from a realism point of view, but it reduces the effect of surprise a little. When you are surprised you can’t take a reaction until your first turn ends. That’s not too different from the (presumably unsurprised) situation described above.
OTOH, surprise’s effect on reactions is far from its most significant effect, so this Is probably not a big deal.

[Tanarii]

I have always played it as you do not start with your reaction, and you get it at the start of your turn.

Kinda like flat footed.
So everyone is surprised in your games all the time? :smallconfused:

Edit: nm, they still get their first turn as normal. /facepalm@myself