Tome of <ADD FEAT HERE>

[kalos72]

Have any of you allowed this type of magic item, a "tome" that teaches a feat outside of level advancement?

I am figuring that if a PC can add 5 to an ability, surely he can add a feat?

[Silva Stormrage]

Have any of you allowed this type of magic item, a "tome" that teaches a feat outside of level advancement?

I am figuring that if a PC can add 5 to an ability, surely he can add a feat?

Depends on the price of the item.

On it's own a magic item granting a feat isn't unheard of. Here is a good list (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?400840-List-of-Feat-Granting-Items-Locations-Grafts)

Generally looking at it 10k or less is a steal for specific feats even when taking a slot. A slotless generic feat slot? I would estimate at least at the 30-50k range, depending on optimization level. Probably more.

[Dimers]

To encourage in-world connections, I prefer to use trainers, not items. But yes, (some) feats should be purchaseable.

[Venger]

Have any of you allowed this type of magic item, a "tome" that teaches a feat outside of level advancement?

I am figuring that if a PC can add 5 to an ability, surely he can add a feat?

yeah, it's part of the custom item creation rules. an item that grants x feat is 20k. if you're in effect making it slotless, since it's a book you'd read and then never need to "equip" again, double it for 40. a little steep, but not too cheap for a free feat, since you can get stuff like iron will for 3k.

[kalos72]

Yeah I dont think the intent is to have to equip the item versus "read" it and learn the feat. But that list of items is really neat, I saved it thanks!

[BowStreetRunner]

yeah, it's part of the custom item creation rules. an item that grants x feat is 20k...
This isn't the first time I've seen someone post this and yet I cannot locate it in either the Pathfinder or 3.5 rules. Could someone please provide a book and page number reference or link to where in the SRD it prices an item that grants a feat? I'm not only interested in the pricing, but also the mechanic of how the item is made. With a spell, someone has to cast the spell during item creation. But how would a feat be handled?

[ericgrau]

This isn't the first time I've seen someone post this and yet I cannot locate it in either the Pathfinder or 3.5 rules. Could someone please provide a book and page number reference or link to where in the SRD it prices an item that grants a feat? I'm not only interested in the pricing, but also the mechanic of how the item is made. With a spell, someone has to cast the spell during item creation. But how would a feat be handled?

There isn't a pricing. The list of existing items is your best bet. And if you want a feat not on that list you can try to find a similar feat. But since feats vary so much there isn't a good way to do this.

Now if you mean gain a bonus feat of your choosing for which you must meet the pre-reqs, that could be interesting. Even then the value goes up as you level, so we'd have to price it based on what a high level or maybe even epic character would be willing to pay. I was in an epic campaign where the DM let you get a feat for two wishes, and many of us took that deal. Sometimes multiple times. He had to disallow getting wishes from NPCs (and NPCs would be unwilling to burn xp in general), which was 26530 gp per wish or 53060 gp per feat. This group had played for a while but was not at all familiar with forum optimization tricks.

[Cosi]

You should just give people more feats. Feats are mostly crap, and part of what makes them crap is that you need to spend all your feats on a single mediocre shtick.

[Thurbane]

For pricing, maybe look at the Codex Advocare (EtCR): it more-or-less gives the user the equivalent of the Extra Invocation feat.

[Venger]

You should just give people more feats. Feats are mostly crap, and part of what makes them crap is that you need to spend all your feats on a single mediocre shtick.

yeah, i've played in 3.5 games that granted a feat every odd level like pf. didn't really affect things that much.


This isn't the first time I've seen someone post this and yet I cannot locate it in either the Pathfinder or 3.5 rules. Could someone please provide a book and page number reference or link to where in the SRD it prices an item that grants a feat? I'm not only interested in the pricing, but also the mechanic of how the item is made. With a spell, someone has to cast the spell during item creation. But how would a feat be handled?

aeg p128 gives formula.

[eggynack]

You should just give people more feats. Feats are mostly crap, and part of what makes them crap is that you need to spend all your feats on a single mediocre shtick.
Well, melee feats are like that, anyway. For some reason, caster feats are not only frequently incredible, they also often show up entirely unencumbered by chains of any kind. Not sure that this means that feats shouldn't be more easily accessible, but it strikes me as a notable factor in the decision making whichever way it leans.

[Cosi]

Well, melee feats are like that, anyway. For some reason, caster feats are not only frequently incredible, they also often show up entirely unencumbered by chains of any kind. Not sure that this means that feats shouldn't be more easily accessible, but it strikes me as a notable factor in the decision making whichever way it leans.

As I've expounded on in the Buff Martials thread, feats in 3e are doing two completely different things. The pace at which you gain feats suggests they should be huge and important (like, yes, many caster feats are). The quality of feats (and this does include lots of caster feats -- remember that Transdimensional Spell is supposed to be a thing you care about) indicates that you should get 1 per level or something. Many feats suck even in that environment. There's no easy answer.

[BowStreetRunner]

aeg p128 gives formula.
Thank you. Now I know why I could never find it, considering the source isn't at the top of the list of frequently used references!

I still wish they gave some sort of idea what the mechanism would be to create such an item. Would you just need someone with the feat to be present during casting? And what are the stats of the item itself going to be like? How would it 'ping' under a detect magic? What caster level is is going to have for object saving throws?

[Venger]

Well, melee feats are like that, anyway. For some reason, caster feats are not only frequently incredible, they also often show up entirely unencumbered by chains of any kind. Not sure that this means that feats shouldn't be more easily accessible, but it strikes me as a notable factor in the decision making whichever way it leans.
Are feats nice things?

Can mundanes have nice things?

Thank you. Now I know why I could never find it, considering the source isn't at the top of the list of frequently used references!

I still wish they gave some sort of idea what the mechanism would be to create such an item. Would you just need someone with the feat to be present during casting? And what are the stats of the item itself going to be like? How would it 'ping' under a detect magic? What caster level is is going to have for object saving throws?

You're welcome. I don't really see why you would, that's just a lot of busy work. It'd be like a dark blue ioun stone (which incidentally follows this formula: 10k for the feat, x2 for making it slotless), it'd just give you x feat. Put it on the body slot of your choice, pay double to make it slotless should you so choose. It's a magic item, so it would ping as magic. Ah, you mean those stats. Jeez, your group smashes your own loot? Hard core. If you needed an item cl, then maybe you could use the feat's minimum prereq level as the cl, and if there is none, such as great fortitude, assume it's 1. That way feat items of lowly, commonplace feats like alertness or stealthy or whatever are not as powerful as something like mutilator or high sword low axe which require taxes.

[Luccan]

I could actually see non-magical tomes that function like this for some feats. Essentially trainers you could carry around. Such classics as Archmage Donahue's Treatise on the Empowering of Spells for Empower Spell or Practices for the Defense of the Soul and Mind for Iron Will.

[Venger]

I could actually see non-magical tomes that function like this for some feats. Essentially trainers you could carry around. Such classics as Archmage Donahue's Treatise on the Empowering of Spells for Empower Spell or Practices for the Defense of the Soul and Mind for Iron Will.

that's a cool idea. your guy could be like charles atlas and sell the books through the back of comics and stuff. plus that way more than one person could use them, kind of like the sparring dummy of the master. man, aeg is just the best book.

[Andezzar]

Not a tome, but there also is the trip to the otyugh hole combined with the dark chaos feat shuffle. This could give you another guideline for pricing.

[Necroticplague]

Have any of you allowed this type of magic item, a "tome" that teaches a feat outside of level advancement?

I am figuring that if a PC can add 5 to an ability, surely he can add a feat?

Actually, an equivalent tome should give 6 feats. 5 ability scores is 20 level increases (one per four levels). The equivalent would by 20 levels of feat progression, which is 6 feats.

[HouseRules]

Given that 1 Spell Slot = 1 Feat, and 1 Spell Known = 1 Feat....
Sorcerer 60 Spell Slot + 43 Spell Known = 103 Feat Equivalent + Bonus Feat Summon Familiar = 104 Feats.
Fighter 11 Bonus Feat + 35 Martial Weapons + Basic Weapons + 3 Armors + Shield = 51 Feats.
Gap of 53 Feats. Fighters need additional 53 feats and have their proficiency feats scale by level to match the power level of a Sorcerer.

Wizard 40 Spell Slot + 41 "Spell Known" + Summon Familiar + Scribe Scroll + 4 Bonus Feat = 87 Feats + Ability to learn infinitely spells
Gap of 36 Feats. Fighters need additional 36 feats and have their proficiency feats scale by level to match the power level of a Base Wizard. They also need the ability to learn any feat the same way a Wizard is able to add any spell to their spellbook to close the gap.

Note that we have not calculated the bonus spell known and bonus spell slots yet.

Tome of <ADD FEAT HERE> should give feats proportional to BAB.

[Elkad]

Tome of <ADD FEAT HERE> should give feats proportional to BAB.

I could live with that.
Instead of being level based, gain a feat every time your BAB goes up a full point.

Wizards would get PF progression basically. (plus their bonus feats, assuming they don't PRC out).

Melee types would get a feat every level.

Clerics are still a problem, but aren't they always?

[HouseRules]

Divine Casters are a Problem.

Revise Divine Casters (Clerics, Druids, and what else?) so they have 1/2 BAB when they gain a new spell level and 3/4 BAB when they only gain spell slots, but not new spell levels. That's level 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17 for prepared full casters. That's 9/4 or a drop of 3 in their BAB by level 20, so they have BAB +12.75 instead of +15 at level 20.

[Ruethgar]

For the caster level of such an item and the required spells/feats, I would go for Mirror Move or Heroics, for proficiencies Master’s Touch or Weildskill, CL 3 or the normal minimum level of the feat, whichever is higher.