Avoiding the Inevitable: Mechanus vs. Sentient Undead

[BlackOnyx]

What are some effective ways for an undead PC to deal with Mechanus's Maruts should one happen to catch their eye?


Is there any hope of throwing them (and their inevitable reinforcements) off the trail for good, or is one doomed to an eternity of playing deadly hide and seek?

[Venger]

What are some effective ways for an undead PC to deal with Mechanus's Maruts should one happen to catch their eye?


Is there any hope of throwing them (and their inevitable reinforcements) off the trail for good, or is one doomed to an eternity of playing deadly hide and seek?
well, unless your gm is rocks falling you, they're unlikely to pick on you:


Those who use magic to reverse death aren’t worthy of a marut’s attention unless they do so repeatedly or on a massive scale.

No idea what "unnatural" means in a setting where everyone and their three-headed dog can do magic, but whatever.

You could console yourself with the fact that maruts are big pinatas full of free xp, especially if your character is a lich.

Undead are immune to many of their slas, the fists of thunder and lighting, and liches specifically are immune to electricity.

What's your character's build, what level is he, what're his feats, what kind of equipment does he have, is the party helping him or are they a bunch of jerks and he has to do it alone, etc. so we can give more specific advice.

[BlackOnyx]

well, unless your gm is rocks falling you, they're unlikely to pick on you


Fair, but it's always good to be prepared. (Just the fact they've been mentioned more than once in the campaign is enough to make one worry.)



You could console yourself with the fact that maruts are big pinatas full of free xp, especially if your character is a lich.


[Insert "Grunt Birthday Party" sound clip here]



What's your character's build, what level is he, what're his feats, what kind of equipment does he have, is the party helping him or are they a bunch of jerks and he has to do it alone, etc. so we can give more specific advice.


Though it might be subject to change (as my PC is still very much still alive...for the time being), let's assume:


- Cloistered Cleric X / Paragnostic Apostle 5 / Contemplative 1
- Domains: Knowledge, Trickery, Necromancer (Blood of Vol.) & Undeath
- Cleric Level 15-20
- Lich Template (best case scenario)
- Str 12, Dex 13, Cha 16 (18), Int 16 (18), Wis 20 (22)
- Feats: Corpsecrafter, Bolster Resistance, Trickery Devotion, Domain Spontaneity (Trickery & Necromancer), Create Wondrous Item (upcoming)


- Most Noteworthy/Relevant Items:
* Ring of Mind Shielding
* Third Eye Freedom of Movement
* Amulet of Proof Against Detection and Location (upcoming)
* Numerous Necromancy Themed Items (Scepter of Netherworld, Unholy Shrouds, etc.)


- Two Cohorts (Awakened Hobgoblin Skeletons, Max Limit)
* Probably one Warlock & one Martial (Warblade?) based off their randomly generated personalities
* Probably only ECL 4-7 by this point


Let's assume party is *not* willing to help. What kind of Mechanus-specific precautions could such a character take on their own?

[Venger]

Fair, but it's always good to be prepared. (Just the fact they've been mentioned more than once in the campaign is enough to make one worry.)

fair enough


[Insert "Grunt Birthday Party" sound clip here]
that's a funny mod, I hadn't seen that before

ok, great, so let's assume your gm sends him against you starting at lvl 15 and you play some kind of full casting build as outlined, mainly advancing casting with your class features.

most of your undeath and necromancer domain spells will not be helpful in direct combat in 1v1 with a marut, so we can set them aside right now.

by 15, trickery domain gives you pao, so you can just turn into something big and strong and kick him to death after buffing yourself with generic brute stuff like bite of the werex, divine power, etc. this'll work even if the marut tries to jump you, pretty much.

assuming you have advance warning and prepare your daily slots specifically to kill a marut, you've got some other options:

defensively, the marut kind of sucks. while he is immune to a lot by virtue of type, you can get around most of it with even minimal preparation. you know what the construct type protects him from, so don't fill up on energy drain and stuff. that's step 1

defensively, he's also got dr (who cares, you're a spellcaster) and more annoyingly, fast healing. if you're damaging him with magic, you will need to do 11 damage a round to break even, if you prefer to buff yourself and smash his head in with a rock, you'll need to do at least 25 a round.

he's also got sr, but even without cl boosts (which, since your build seems decently optimized, I assume you have) you should beat it often enough, but if you're worried at all, reserve a 4th for assay spell resistance, and it's literally impossible for you to screw it up, so you won't need to select for sr:no spells if you don't want to. load up on crappy spells like flame strike if you want, it won't matter.

the good news is he doesn't have that much health. even if you just go with completely bog standard 1d6/lvl no frills direct damage blasts such as flame strike (not that you have to use that specifically, just as an example) you should only have to hit him with 2 or 3 effects on that level before you kill him.

And while we assumed you're alone as far as pcs go, I assume you'll have some of your underlings with you, or you'll be able to use undead minions, summons, etc. As long as they can penetrate his dr, sponge up some of his strong slas (assuming you let him last long enough to act) or ideally lock him down by doing something like grappling him if you've got like a dinosaur or other thuggish skeleton, then go ahead and throw them into the fray

let's talk about him getting to act. his initiative is abominable. as a pc, I assume you've put at least some token effort into generic int boosters (warning armor spikes, eager weapon, etc) but even if you haven't, set aside a 1 for sign, the cleric's answer to nerveskitter. provides a nice bonus to init and will easily give you and edge even if it's the only thing in your arsenal re: int boosting

if you can't dominate him in init, zap him with a blasting spell (or charge him while turned into a hydra, mountain troll, etc while buffed up under a bunch of spells) and crush him in one turn with the help of your minions, then there are a couple more things you ought to keep in mind

while his skeleton's pretty unimpressive, his slas can be pretty dangerous if you face him before you become undead (I'll just assume the worst circumstances for you, then you can just use whatever advice is applicable and save the rest for later)

if you don't kill him before his initiative count comes up and haven't taken precautions to ward yourself against his chain lightning, or tricked him into wasting it against an undead minion, try not to give him a clear shot with it, it will ruin your day.

if you have space to spare to ward yourself against it (energy immunity, resist energy, spell resistance, etc), then feel free to ignore this

it's only 1/day, so it can be considered dealt with after this.

the thing that's of greater concern is his gdm at will. while he will waste his action if he wants to dispel any of your buffs, it can be a real pain in the ass if you've got something like pao up and he turns it off, so again, if he doesnt' go down in the first, I advise keeping your distance and bombing him with spells, summons, rocks if you've turned into a giant or similar creature, etc. he's also got circle of death, available at medium, and if you're the only thing he has to worry about, you don't want to be that close to him without some kind of protection, such as death ward

these strategies ought to cover the basics. let me know if you have any other questions.

[TalonOfAnathrax]

How about getting a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis, some skill boosting items, and spending your entire life under Hide in Plain Sight?
Take the Darkstalker feat and it should be quite feasible. Get Telepathy if needed.

Argue that liches have inhuman patience and no physical requirements.

[Malimar]

No idea what "unnatural" means in a setting where everyone and their three-headed dog can do magic, but whatever.
I suspect the intent may have been that "magic to reverse death" refers specifically to raise dead and its conspecifics. Using magic to become undead (or add years to your lifespan or whatnot) doesn't count as reversing death, and therefore might get an Inevitable after you.

As a DM, I'd probably rule that vampires and mummies and crypt things and other intelligent undead are so common that a marut only has a chance to come after you if a.) you actually exceed your natural lifespan (rather than simply having the potential to) and b.) you're actively out there doing things (so guarding a tomb forever won't trigger a marut attack).

[Venger]

I suspect the intent may have been that "magic to reverse death" refers specifically to raise dead and its conspecifics. Using magic to become undead (or add years to your lifespan or whatnot) doesn't count as reversing death, and therefore might get an Inevitable after you.

As a DM, I'd probably rule that vampires and mummies and crypt things and other intelligent undead are so common that a marut only has a chance to come after you if a.) you actually exceed your natural lifespan (rather than simply having the potential to) and b.) you're actively out there doing things (so guarding a tomb forever won't trigger a marut attack).

No, you've got it backwards, marut does the exact opposite of everything you said:



Any who use unnatural means to extend their life span (such as
a lich) could be targeted by a marut. Those who take extraordinary
measures to cheat death in some other way (such as sacrificing
hundreds of others to keep oneself safe from a plague) might be
labeled transgressors as well. Those who use magic to reverse
death (raise dead spells, for example) aren’t worthy of a marut’s attention
unless they do so repeatedly or on a massive scale.

[Psyren]

Some intelligent undead are an expected, and possibly even necessary part of the universe. Maruts would probably only get involved if there was an excessively long-unlived one, a cabal of them banding together, or an imminent wightocalypse or something.

Looking at Golarion for example - having no undead at all just led to the creation of their goddess (Urgathoa) who effectively spawned herself.

[Malimar]

No, you've got it backwards, marut does the exact opposite of everything you said:
Yeah, none of that even conflicts with anything I said, let alone "exact opposite".

[BlackOnyx]

these strategies ought to cover the basics. let me know if you have any other questions.


Thank you for the detailed response, Venger; some very helpful information in there. Entirely forgot about the spell Sign being a thing, for one.


Keeping PAO in mind for emergencies is a good plan as well; I'll have to take a look at some creatures types that might be useful (I'd be happy to hear any suggestions you might happen to have as well).



Argue that liches have inhuman patience and no physical requirements.


[Proceeds to sit, motionless, for the next three sessions]



Some intelligent undead are an expected, and possibly even necessary part of the universe. Maruts would probably only get involved if there was an excessively long-unlived one, a cabal of them banding together, or an imminent wightocalypse or something.


This will be my opening statement should my PC ever find himself on trial in the clockwork courthouse.

[Venger]

Thank you for the detailed response, Venger; some very helpful information in there. Entirely forgot about the spell Sign being a thing, for one.


Keeping PAO in mind for emergencies is a good plan as well; I'll have to take a look at some creatures types that might be useful (I'd be happy to hear any suggestions you might happen to have as well).
You're welcome. Hey, that's why I'm here.

here's a good list of stuff to polymorph into (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=519.0)

[BlackOnyx]

here's a good list of stuff to polymorph into (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=519.0)


Wow, comprehensive. Thanks for the link.