Optimization Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIII [Archive]

Heliomance

2018-06-01, 04:57 AM

A dimly-lit library. Rows of bookshelves line the walls, and as the camera slowly pans over them, we see that they are filled with gaming books. From the original brown-cover D&D manuals to the newest fifth edition supplements, we are given a brief but breathtaking history of over four decades of gaming in visual form.

A pair of feet, clad in Converse, appear. The camera pans back to reveal the Chairwoman as she strides out into Optimization Stadium. Slowly, she looks around at the battleground. Rapidly, we are shown shots of the gaming materials here assembled: books, miniatures, maps, dice. The Chairwoman reaches down and picks up a twenty-sided die. She rolls it, then turns to the camera... and smiles.

The camera pulls back from the smile to reveal... the Iron Gamers. Row upon row they stand, clad in the uniform of their trade: t-shirts with fantasy images, buttons with obscure quotes from novels and movies, dice bags at the ready. The shot dissolves into flames and the logo:

Iron Gamer

A montage of the contestants plays, with summaries of their optimization triumphs and achievements. Interspersed are brief interviews. Finally, though, the introductions are over. The contestants stand arrayed before the Chairwoman.

Chairwoman: We unveil the ingredient!

Tense music plays as the pedestal containing the mystery ingredient rises from below. Stacked neatly on the pedestal are copies of the Draconomicon.

Chairwoman: We have a real treasure for you today! This month's theme is... Hoardstealer! ALLEZ OPTIMISER!

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef LXXXIV. Here in Optimisation Colosseum, contestants will endeavour to create an optimised and flavourful character using a specified D&D3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".

Contestants: You will need to present a full 20-level build for your entry. Also required is a rundown of how your build works at lower levels, to demonstrate that it is a functional character that could be played from 1-20 in a real game. Traditionally contestants give "snapshots" of tactics and abilities at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20, as well as a "sweet spot" of their choosing that represents what they believe to be the high point of the build. The purpose of these snapshots is not just to showcase your use of the SI, it is to demonstrate that your character is playable at every level. For this reason, it's still worth giving a snapshot before you have entered the SI.

Menu: The "special ingredient" can be drawn from any legal source. Originally, the plan was to mostly use Core and Completes, but that was a long time ago, and we've started running out of interesting classes to use if we restrict ourselves to those.

32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we have generally allowed other levels of point-buy.
If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em. Please refrain from using Taint unless it's necessary for the Secret Ingredient.
NB: Official Errata and 3.5 updates to 3.0 content are considered valid regardless of whether their sources would otherwise be legal. This includes the 3.5 update of Oriental Adventures given in Dragon Magazine, and the 3.5 updates of Dragonlance Campaign Setting content given in later third party Dragonlance books.

Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 07:59 GMT on Tuesday, June 26th, 2018 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairwoman, Heliomance. Please put the name of your build in the subject line of your PM. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 07:59 GMT on Tuesday, July 10th, 2018 to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.

Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is considered in poor taste, and judges are asked to take a dim view of this option, taking it into account while grading. Other things that will cause penalties here are excessive multi-classing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points.Please note the following change: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may result in a penalty to Elegance at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not. In that same vein, drawing solely from the Core 3 (and the d20 SRD) should not be punished for lacking Originality.
Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!

Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.NAME OF ENTRY

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

Code immediately below (spoiler).

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)Spells per Day/Spells Known
Spells per Day/Spells Known

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

Code immediately below (spoiler)Spells per Day/Spells Known
Spells per Day/Spells Known

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.
Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners. If your entry includes a prestige class or ACF that grants Leadership or a Leadership-like ability as a bonus feat, the feat should be ignored and is not eligible to be traded away for another feat or ACF through any means.

So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing!

We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honourable mention. The honourable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honourable mention via PM. If there are no votes, Honourable Mention will go to the chairwoman's favourite build.

The Builds

Past Competitions

Courtesy of some wonderful volunteers, there is a handy-dandy spreadsheet guide to all previous builds here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oyjVU5JmeCnC8YTMqDArDqE5PszHl0Ysadz630kuTGk/edit?ts=59a4835f#gid=0).

Iron Chef I: Entropomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142470)
Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146583)
Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148584)
Iron Chef IV: Stonelord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150595)
Iron Chef V: War Chanter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152543)
Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156876)
Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158633)
Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160266)
Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162702)
Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164381)
Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166539)
Iron Chef XII: War Mind (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9426386)
Iron Chef XIII: Vigilante (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172233)
Iron Chef XIV: Seeker of the Song (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174434)
Iron Chef XV: Drunken Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176049)
Iron Chef XVI: Assassin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178202)
Iron Chef XVII: Ardent Dilettante (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182492)
Iron Chef XVIII: Unseelie Dark Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186097)
Iron Chef XIX: Dread Pirate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190607)
Iron Chef XX: Incandescent Champion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10976416)
Iron Chef XXI: Ghostwalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198921)
Iron Chef XXII: Dervish (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206576)
Iron Chef XXIII: Divine Crusader (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210071)
Iron Chef XXIV: Tactical Soldier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214198)
Iron Chef XXV: Scion of Tem-Et-Nu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217441)
Iron Chef XXVI: Shadowdancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220956)
Iron Chef XXVII: Mindbender (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224008)
Iron Chef XXVIII: Cryokineticist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227304)
Iron Chef XXIX: Consecrated Harrier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229688)
Iron Chef XXX: Initiate of Pistis Sophia (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233346)
Iron Chef XXXI: Shadow Sentinel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236908)
Iron Chef XXXII: Temple Raider of Olidammara (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239786)
Iron Chef XXXIII: Drow Judicator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243052)
Iron Chef XXXIV: Dragon Disciple (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246072)
Iron Chef XXXV: Death Delver (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249542)
Iron Chef XXXVI: Acolyte of the Skin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252923)
Iron Chef XXXVII: Justiciar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13865473)
Iron Chef XXXVIII: Hand of the Winged Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255215)
Iron Chef XXXIX: Renegade Mastermaker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260333)
Iron Chef XL: Nightsong Infiltrator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263173)
Iron Chef XLI: Geomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266709)
Iron Chef XLII: Shadowblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270196)
Iron Chef XLIII: Bladesinger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=274122)
Iron Chef XLIV: Urban Soul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279116)
Iron Chef XLV: Talon of Tiamat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15216595)
Iron Chef XLVI: Cipher Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287314)
Iron Chef XLVII: Cold Iron Warrior (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291294)
Iron Chef XLVIII: Shadow Sun Ninja (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297327)
Iron Chef XLIX: Thrall to Orcus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302487)
Iron Chef L: Corrupt Avenger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307823)
Iron Chef LI: Black Flame Zealot (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312773)
Iron Chef LII: Anointed Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317934)
Iron Chef LIII: Zerth Cenobite (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325164)
Iron Chef LIV: Osteomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330890)
Iron Chef LV: Mountebank (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?336373-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LV)
Iron Chef LVI: Dwarven Defender (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?342807-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVI)
Iron Chef LVII: Darkrunner (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?349040-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVII)
Iron Chef LVIII: Spellsword (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?357412-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVIII)
Iron Chef LIX: Fleet Runner of Ehlonna (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?364667-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LIX)
Iron Chef LX: Lasher (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?371835-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LX)
Iron Chef LX(II): Acolyte of the Ego (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?372145-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LX)
Iron Chef LXII: Dungeon Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?376810-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXII)
Iron Chef LXIII: Witchborn Binder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?382632-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXIII)
Iron Chef LXIV: Slime Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?387166-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXIV)
Iron Chef LXV: Thunder Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?394981-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXV)
Iron Chef LXVI: Dwarven Chanter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?400810-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXVI)
Irogn Chef LXVII: Gnome Giant Slayer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?406613-Irogn-Chef-Optimisatiogn-Challegnge-ign-the-Playgrougnd-LXVII)
Iron Chef LXVIII: Fang of Lolth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?412530-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXVIII)
Iron Chef LXIX: Shiba Protector (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?420165-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXIX)
Iron Chef LXX: Order of the Bow Initiate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?425634-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXX)
Iron Chef LXXI: Silver Key (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?431484-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXI)
Iron Chef LXXII: Spellfire Channeler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?439020-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXII)
Iron Chef LXXIII: Flux Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?448596-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXIII)
Iron Chef LXXIV: Crinti Shadow Marauder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?458711-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXIV)
Iron Chef LXXV: Thief of Life (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?472831-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXV)
Iron Chef LXXVI: Legacy Champion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?477153-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXVI)
Iron Chef LXXVII: Great Rift Skyguard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?482249-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXVII)
Iron Chef LXVIII: Risen Martyr (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?487560-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXVIII)
Iron Chef LXXIX: Black Blood Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?492923-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXIX)
Iron Chef LXXX: Master of Many Forms (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?498359-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXX)
Iron Chef LXXXI: Serene Guardian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?502666-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXI)
Iron Chef LXXXII: Elocator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?505762-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXII)
Iron Chef LXXXIII: Winterhaunt of Iboorighu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?510581-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXIII)
Iron Chef LXXXIV: Waverider (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?514631-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXIV)
Iron Chef LXXXV: Astral Dancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?519296-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXV)
Iron Chef LXXXVI: Twisted Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?525401-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXVI)
Iron Chef LXXXVII: Shadowsmith (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?528361-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXVII)
Iron Chef LXXXVIII: Arboreal Guardian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?533367-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXVIII)
Iron Chef LXXXIX: Thrall of Demogorgon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?536247-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXIX)
Iron Chef XC: Bloodstorm Blade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?542380-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XC)
Iron Chef XCI: Fatemaker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?550203-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XCI)
Iron Chef XCII: Eye of the Xanathar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?556092-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XCII)

Heliomance

2018-06-01, 04:58 AM

FAQ:
Q: What's this even about?
A: I'm glad you asked, actually... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15415117&postcount=1)

Q: Is Dragon Compendium Allowed?
A: Yes (as well as its Errata), but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.

Q: What about 3.0 materials?
A: 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.

Q: Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources?
A: The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.

Q: What about online sources in general?
A: If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.

Q: Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten, since before IC migrated to GitP; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. In a similar vein, LA buyoff and fractional BAB are also disallowed. Bloodlines and the Retraining options presented in the PHB2 are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

Q: What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean?
A: As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort while Heliomance is chairman. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

Q: What's the minimum score in a category?
A: Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is mechanically illegal by the RAW, the judge may give the build a score of 0 in Elegance, and proceed to judge the entry as if the offending material was not included. Failing to meet a special requirement for a prestige class does not merit a 0, but may qualify for a penalty, at the judge's discretion. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.

Q: Creatures and templates with no listed LA are playable, right?
A: No. No listed LA is equivalent to LA: -. It is not suitable for PCs. If you use it, expect judges to look extremely disfavourably on it.

Q: So what's the deal with equipment, anyway?
A: There is no official policy on how much equipment you should list. Historically, judges have frowned upon "item dependent" builds, but unfortunately the definition of that has been applied to mean anything from builds that don't function if you remove one very specific item, to builds that so much as mention a particular weapon. Builds that don't list gear should be assumed to buy useful generics - items to boost their primary stats, cloaks of resistance, appropriate magical weapons and armour, and so forth. If a build would find particular items useful, they should be listed, but experience suggests that the more generic you keep them, the more favourably judges are likely to look upon them, as a build being shut down because the Thundering Bagpipes of Urist McTrumpetbritches were unavailable is considered a weakness. Similarly, requiring items in order to be able to qualify for things tends to be frowned upon.

Q: Do you have any other rules and guidelines on how to judge?
A: We do, actually, designed to try and avoid unpleasantness we've encountered in past contests. The things we've come up with to avoid repeating this are given below.

One Mistake, One Penalty

Judges are only allowed to penalise once for a given mistake. If someone messes up their skills and doesn't qualify for a PrC, ding them as hard as you like. Once. In one category. You don't then get to declare that because they didn't qualify for that PrC, they don't get those levels, and thus don't qualify for anything else. If Ranger is a common ingredient, ding them for Originality. Once. Don't also take off points for Two-Weapon-Fighting being a common ingredient.

Non-exhaustive list of examples:

Skills

Allowed:

Giving a penalty for miscalculating the number of skill points gained
Giving a penalty for not having enough ranks to meet a prerequisite
Increasing the harshness of a skill miscalculation penalty if it affects critical skills including prereqs

Not allowed:

Giving separate penalties for miscalculating skill points and for non-qualification where the non-qualification is solely caused by the miscalculation

Prereqs

Allowed:

Giving a penalty for not meeting prereqs
Scaling the penalty depending on how important the item that the build failed to qualify for is
Giving minimum score in UotSI for not qualifying for the SI
(Trial, may be disallowed later)Not giving credit for (note: not the same as penalising for) tactics using feats or classes other than the SI that were not qualified for (but see below)

Not Allowed:

"Cascading" failures to qualify - declaring that because a build doesn't qualify for a feat, for example, it also doesn't qualify for anything using that feat as a prereq
Treating a build as having fewer levels than it does because of FtQ for classes

Other general things that are no longer allowed:

Penalising because someone has chosen to build a tribute to an existing creative work
Deciding that a backstory has not met a fluff prerequisite well enough, or because its method of meeting it is "unrealistic". You may penalise if a fluff prereq is not addressed at all, but not for how well it is addressed.

Note that these are protections, not licenses. Deliberately taking a feat that you know you don't qualify for hoping to just suck up the judging penalty for a feat that you couldn't normally take is not okay, and may lead to your build being disqualified.

Q: Do you have any contest house rules or clarifications to ambiguous rules?
A: Some that have come up in previous contests and needed answers to:

All creatures are proficient with any natural weapons they may have or acquire.
Bonus feats that are granted even if you do not meet the prerequisites do not require you to meet the prerequisites in order to use.
Able Learner's benefit applies to the level you take it.

Q: Can I submit more than one entry?
A: You may submit up to two entries into a given competition.

Venger

2018-06-01, 05:17 AM

my face when (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjA99PsnbLbAhURy1MKHbzCDXcQ3ywIKjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DoK fn6TRBinI&usg=AOvVaw33t4auxJKQT3n-fpzzReSD)

Surprising no one, I am in to cook.

already, the indignities have begun. for a class that (I think it fair to say without getting in to speculation) assumes rogue entry and requires a ton of ranks in search, it has the good grace to grant me trapfinding. how generous.

and already we've found our first mistake: supernatural abilities can't be dispelled. Ah, Skip. Never did learn the most rudimentary rules of his own game.

Sian

2018-06-01, 06:15 AM

Got a couple of interesting ideas ... question through is if i can find the time/will to stop sit down getting more than a rough idea

Thurbane

2018-06-01, 06:15 AM

Hmm, two Rogue-ish PrCs in a row?

I'll see if inspiration strikes me.

Wow, just re-read the PrC. Man, that's underwhelming! It wouldn't be unfair to call it a glorified Expert. Well, except for the casting, I guess.

Wolfem

2018-06-01, 08:45 AM

Cook placeholder has been added to the ICO Spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oyjVU5JmeCnC8YTMqDArDqE5PszHl0Ysadz630kuTGk/edit?ts=59a4835f#gid=0).

The Viscount

2018-06-01, 09:33 AM

As always, your efforts are greatly appreciated, Wolfem.

This class requires heavy investment in, but does not grant, Hide and MS. And here I thought Heliomance was being kind after Eye of the Xanathar.

WhamBamSam

2018-06-01, 11:03 AM

Oh dear. Well, I'll see what I can do with this. I have a few thoughts, but I'm not sure if I'll commit to competing yet.

Efrate

2018-06-01, 12:18 PM

This is atrocious. I love it. I might throw my hat in, dunno if I'll have time,and I've never cooked before, but something weird and wonderful is tickling my brain, I'll see if I can make it work.

Zaq

2018-06-01, 12:26 PM

That’s a lot of skill rank requirements. Not quite Dungeon Delver, but still a lot.

I’m toying with the idea of judging, though the skill-heavy nature does mean that checking legality is going to be a chore. I implore everyone to make your skills as pretty as possible; no matter whether I judge or not, anyone who does judge is going to appreciate that. I’ll see if any of the class’s abilities (what abilities?!) sing to me enough to cook, but I haven’t made a final decision yet.

This is atrocious. I love it. I might throw my hat in, dunno if I'll have time,and I've never cooked before, but something weird and wonderful is tickling my brain, I'll see if I can make it work.

Welcome! The best thing you can do is just to go for it and see what happens.

Thurbane

2018-06-01, 02:45 PM

I love that the class grants Trapfinding. Look at those skills ranks: with the exception of Expert, I can't think of too many classes that could easily meet those reqs that didn't already have Trapfinding. :smallamused:

If the devs were going to make this a remotely useful PrC, they should have axed about half of the skill reqs, added "Trapfinding class feature" as a req, and have had it progress Sneak Attack.

Question: when the class says "A hoardstealer casts spells just as a wizard does.", would I be right to assume this includes the need for a spellbook?

Sian

2018-06-01, 03:13 PM

Zaq

2018-06-01, 05:06 PM

Question: when the class says "A hoardstealer casts spells just as a wizard does.", would I be right to assume this includes the need for a spellbook?

Pretty sure that you need a spellbook, yeah.

RaiKirah

2018-06-01, 06:09 PM

AAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! I have a stupid trick I've been sitting on that this class let's me use! I'm in!

Karl Aegis

2018-06-01, 06:39 PM

I know it says you can cast spells, but does it give you the ability to learn or prepare spells? Prestige classes aren't even consistent in how their casting works, as is the case of Sublime Chord letting you prepare(?) and cast as a sorcerer, Blackguard letting you prepare and cast any spell on their list as a cleric, and Assassin just not telling you to reference the table for spells known. It's strange.

Wait, 7th level spell as a spell-like ability spotted. What even is this.

Venger

2018-06-01, 07:05 PM

KrimsonNekros

2018-06-01, 08:27 PM

I had one idea that i was kicking around, and then inspiration struck and I had to make this second idea first hope {REDACTED}. See you in the kitchen.

Zaq

2018-06-01, 08:58 PM

Hmm. Now that I get a chance to really sit down and read more, well, this probably isn't the worst PrC in the book. I think that honor, such as it is, goes to Dragonkith. I think its "Mighty Attack" ability may be one of the most insulting so-called features I've seen recently, especially because it's a supernatural ability (and therefore—say it with me, kids—a standard action!). The only really abusable feature is Sorcerous Knack, but that's mostly because it's poorly defined what you are and aren't allowed to snag with it. But that class is remarkably awful.

Hordestealer isn't that much better, but at least it does get spells. Not particularly amazing spells (the list is very similar to Fatemaker's list, and that's terrible), but spells are spells.

I agree with much of the commentary here. The fact that it requires full ranks in Hide and MS to get in but then doesn't offer them as class skills is particularly egregious.

Why is the range on Treasure Dowsing so insultingly tiny? I guess it's technically larger than the range on the rod that it's based off of, but that still seems, shall we say, very difficult to actually use properly. I will admit that I've never actually read that rod before, or if I have, it was so long ago that I forgot it entirely. (It's actually kind of worth looking at the DMG's rod section again. Rods are really freaking weird overall. Aside from the old standbys of the Metamagic Rods and the Immovable Rod (and I guess the Rod of Wonder), I can't see any of them ever being worth more than their gold value, but seriously, look at how weird some of them are. Sticks to snakes, but only if you have the right alignment! Make a giant group of stupid things treat you as their "absolute sovereign" for a grand total of about eight hours (ever)! Clothe yourself in super-schmancy clothes (with no listed activation action—it may forcibly dress you of its own volition) that makes you roll for the value but absolutely prevents you from having that value be meaningful in any way! Tell if anything nearby hates you, assuming that you still have uses left for the day and spend the relevant action and are already within charge range! Spend 85,000 gp to get a bunch of low-level spells, get an effect that's slightly better than Alarm, and then apparently animate stuff for some reason!

I may need to make a new thread about this. Why are DMG rods so weird? They're so weird. (I bet most of them are legacy holdovers from 1e/2e, but they're still so weird.)

Anyway, Hoardstealer. Um. I foresee most of these abilities being very hard to proactively show off. I'm getting a very, very strong Silver Key vibe off of this class. I think this round is going to have a lot in common with Silver Key.

How do you think the Hoardstealer in that adorable picture is planning to carry that giant bag of heavy metal that's significantly larger than he is?

Venger

2018-06-01, 09:44 PM

KrimsonNekros

2018-06-01, 10:48 PM

I would rather take levels in hordestealer. Pilfer the groupies of thrallherds and diplomonsters when they're not looking and put them in your magic bag

Yeah, the rods in the dmg are some real pieces of crap. it goes for most of the other items as well. check out the helm of brilliance. a bunch of crappy consumable slas, and then if you ever get damaged, you will die.

I suspect most of them are legacy items. Please do make this thread.

Unlike silver key, I see nothing unique about hoardstealer. It merely wishes it could squat in your mordenkainen's magnificent mansion and eat your cucumber sandwiches.

And then while you snub your nose at it, it'll run off with all your silverware.

Venger

2018-06-01, 10:54 PM

And then while you snub your nose at it, it'll run off with all your silverware.
Why do you think their stupid silver keys are so expensive?

Sian

2018-06-02, 01:32 AM

I'm getting a very, very strong Silver Key vibe off of this class. I think this round is going to have a lot in common with Silver Key.

Does that mean that I'm going to win since I won Silver Key? :p

Venger

2018-06-02, 01:36 AM

Then I guess I'll take silver, if I can remember to qualify for the class this time.

KrimsonNekros

2018-06-02, 02:22 AM

Bronze will be mine! You hear me judges!?

WhamBamSam

2018-06-02, 02:34 AM

Venger

2018-06-02, 02:47 AM

I'd like to further predict that, like Silver Key, we'll get a couple builds that are almost exactly the same. Vizzini is not only telling me it's inconceivable that no one else will submit what is currently my best idea, but also naming some names of people likely to do so.

I know you mean chefs, but I'm imagining you getting a flash of insight as to the names of the actual dishes being the same as well. I was thunderstruck back in urban soul when I saw someone else submitted a dish named Dorian.

Zaq

2018-06-02, 11:41 AM

I would rather take levels in hordestealer. Pilfer the groupies of thrallherds and diplomonsters when they're not looking and put them in your magic bag

Wow, I have no one to blame but myself for that. I earned every bit of that barb. Ouch.

Yeah, the rods in the dmg are some real pieces of crap. it goes for most of the other items as well. check out the helm of brilliance. a bunch of crappy consumable slas, and then if you ever get damaged, you will die.

I suspect most of them are legacy items. Please do make this thread.

Done (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?560408-Most-of-the-DMG-s-rods-are-insane), though it looks like many of us have found it already.

Unlike silver key, I see nothing unique about hoardstealer. It merely wishes it could squat in your mordenkainen's magnificent mansion and eat your cucumber sandwiches.

Still, since everything the class gets is super situational, the challenge is going to be in finding ways to convince the judges that you can engineer and then take advantage of situations where your class features are useful. Because they usually aren't features that translate well to general-purpose utility.

Why was WotC so enamored with use-limited abilities that aren't really very amazing? Not just on this class, of course.

Also, I'm aware of one 10-level class that does grant its own spells that grants fewer per day, but I'm only aware of one. This one is definitely vying for the bottom slot in terms of number of spells per day. I wonder why that is.

Hmm. They cast "just as a wizard does." Does that mean that they can specialize in a school and get bonus slots? Wizard specialization isn't a separate class feature from their spells. It's a sidebar, but it's just part of how Wizards cast. (I can delete this if it's too speculative.)

Venger

2018-06-02, 12:10 PM

Wow, I have no one to blame but myself for that. I earned every bit of that barb. Ouch.

I meant no offense. I just saw the opportunity to make a stupid pun, so, you understand, I had to avail myself of it.

Done (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?560408-Most-of-the-DMG-s-rods-are-insane), though it looks like many of us have found it already.
Thanks. Good thread.

Still, since everything the class gets is super situational, the challenge is going to be in finding ways to convince the judges that you can engineer and then take advantage of situations where your class features are useful. Because they usually aren't features that translate well to general-purpose utility.

Why was WotC so enamored with use-limited abilities that aren't really very amazing? Not just on this class, of course.

Also, I'm aware of one 10-level class that does grant its own spells that grants fewer per day, but I'm only aware of one. This one is definitely vying for the bottom slot in terms of number of spells per day. I wonder why that is.

Hmm. They cast "just as a wizard does." Does that mean that they can specialize in a school and get bonus slots? Wizard specialization isn't a separate class feature from their spells. It's a sidebar, but it's just part of how Wizards cast. (I can delete this if it's too speculative.)
Personally, I have trouble showcasing "my guy uses this crappy 1/day sla." I'm not convinced it can really be done.

Because they're not very smart, and even until the death of the game, massively overvalued the usefulness of at-wills, so any time they actually let anyone do anything, they needed to give it a meager daily limit to make it useless, even if the effect is underwhelming to start with. If you could detect metals at will, this class feature would still blow.

after the reveal, let me know what it is, because I'm drawing a blank. I gather your coyness is in case anyone else uses it too.

if I had to guess, and, giving the designers more than their fair share of credit and assuming the hoardstealer has a small number of spells/day on purpose and not just by happenstance, I'd guess it's for the same reason that any class that actually does anything (with rare exception) also doesn't have full ba. they already gave you skills (kind of) so they couldn't possibly give you a reasonable amount of slots too, or else everyone would take hoardstealer and rudisplork their games into oblivion.

No, they don't specialize. Wu jen also cast "as wizard." They don't specialize in schools in the same fashion, so neither does hoardstealer.

Zaq

2018-06-02, 01:54 PM

I meant no offense. I just saw the opportunity to make a stupid pun, so, you understand, I had to avail myself of it.

As well you should have! No offense was taken.

after the reveal, let me know what it is, because I'm drawing a blank. I gather your coyness is in case anyone else uses it too.

I don't think it has even the tiniest chance of showing up in this round unless someone throws it into their build as a direct result of this post just for craziness. The class is Knight of the Middle Circle, from Defenders of the Faith. It's the most unnecessarily spread-out class I've ever seen. You gain one spell slot of each of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level by the time you're done. One slot each. I have no idea what the point is. The other class features are standard bizarre 3.0 crap. True Strike a few times per day (hooray?), Tongues a surprisingly large number of times per day (but not always-on or anything, goodness no, that's far too crazy), Blind-Fight for some entirely obscure reason, and an almost interesting but far too timid bonus to attack rolls and AC against one target at a time (which is, at the very least, not action-heavy or use-limited, but it's still not worth the investment it takes to achieve it).

To call it a five-level class stretched into ten levels is to generously flatter it. I can see why they didn't bother to update it. I don't see why they bothered to write it. They basically didn't. So you know, Hoardstealer is probably better than this, and it definitely gets more magic! That's a win, right? We're gonna call that a win?

if I had to guess, and, giving the designers more than their fair share of credit and assuming the hoardstealer has a small number of spells/day on purpose and not just by happenstance, I'd guess it's for the same reason that any class that actually does anything (with rare exception) also doesn't have full ba. they already gave you skills (kind of) so they couldn't possibly give you a reasonable amount of slots too, or else everyone would take hoardstealer and rudisplork their games into oblivion.

I guess I'm just confused by the fact that there's a semi-standard progression for "4th level spells over 10 PrC levels," and the Hoardstealer doesn't use that. I guess it's not actually standard, and there's probably at least one other notable exception that can be dug up in one direction or another, but still, such things are noticeable.

Anyway, I have only thought of a single thing that can be done with Hoardstealer, but it's so far out in left field (and involves some pretty intense cheese to make it reliable) that I don't think I'll submit it. It really takes weapons-grade cheese to make it work, so I'll talk about it after the reveal. I'm still going to give myself a little more time before I commit to judging, but I'm leaning that way right now.

Venger

2018-06-02, 02:04 PM

I don't think it has even the tiniest chance of showing up in this round unless someone throws it into their build as a direct result of this post just for craziness. The class is Knight of the Middle Circle, from Defenders of the Faith. It's the most unnecessarily spread-out class I've ever seen. You gain one spell slot of each of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level by the time you're done. One slot each. I have no idea what the point is. The other class features are standard bizarre 3.0 crap. True Strike a few times per day (hooray?), Tongues a surprisingly large number of times per day (but not always-on or anything, goodness no, that's far too crazy), Blind-Fight for some entirely obscure reason, and an almost interesting but far too timid bonus to attack rolls and AC against one target at a time (which is, at the very least, not action-heavy or use-limited, but it's still not worth the investment it takes to achieve it).

To call it a five-level class stretched into ten levels is to generously flatter it. I can see why they didn't bother to update it. I don't see why they bothered to write it. They basically didn't. So you know, Hoardstealer is probably better than this, and it definitely gets more magic! That's a win, right? We're gonna call that a win?
Holy crap, what an awful class. I've never even heard of it before.

I guess I'm just confused by the fact that there's a semi-standard progression for "4th level spells over 10 PrC levels," and the Hoardstealer doesn't use that. I guess it's not actually standard, and there's probably at least one other notable exception that can be dug up in one direction or another, but still, such things are noticeable.

Anyway, I have only thought of a single thing that can be done with Hoardstealer, but it's so far out in left field (and involves some pretty intense cheese to make it reliable) that I don't think I'll submit it. It really takes weapons-grade cheese to make it work, so I'll talk about it after the reveal. I'm still going to give myself a little more time before I commit to judging, but I'm leaning that way right now.

I agree it's peculiar. I know of at least one other class that uses the same spells/day as hoardstealer, but I think someone might use it, so I'll mention it after the reveal so as to avoid speculation.

I'll just prepare myself for a low score then

The Viscount

2018-06-02, 03:59 PM

As for how the sample one plans to move all that gold, I assume they're loading it on to a Tenser's floating disk for easy maneuvering. Then again, the dragon appears to be waking up, so they're not likely to make it out at all.

This class also is the only one I've seen to insert flavor text into the discussion of Skill Mastery instead of just copying the base ability.

jdizzlean

2018-06-03, 10:35 AM

1st idea: illegal
2nd idea: practically impossible
3rd idea: seems like Vizzini...
4th idea: seems pointless

Efrate

2018-06-03, 03:10 PM

Venger

2018-06-03, 03:19 PM

I'm on my 6th or 7th idea, prereqs are murder. The one easy idea clashes way too strongly with flavor. It has power but that's it. I also thought it was 5 levels not ten after reading the smattering of abilities. Still plugging away.

Personally, I always recommend ideas that clash strongly with the way the Man wants you to enter the class.

Zaq

2018-06-03, 04:23 PM

Okay, let's commit. I'll judge this round. This is going to be a hard round, but I do my best to be a fair judge across the board.

I've written a lot of words for my judging guidelines. I hope that everyone will read as much of them as possible.

General:
I'm going to put this first in the hopes that people will read it. To be blunt, make it as easy for me as possible. This includes making your skills readable (there's going to be an awful lot of skill points in these builds between qualification and the class itself granting 6 + INT, so I beg you, don't make me work harder than I have to in order to make sure that you're legal), clearly laying out what exactly the build is intending to do and how you intend to do it, making it clear what sources you're using, and so on. The more work you make me do, the crankier I will likely be when I'm doling out points, such as it is. (This is a labor of love for everyone involved, of course, but still, you get me.)
I would much, much rather have you hold my hand and walk me through everything you think makes you awesome rather than making me figure it all out on my own. I'm pretty good at this, but there's going to be a lot of builds here. Don't assume that I'm going to read much into your tactics beyond what you actually tell me you're doing. I'm not going to assume that you're an idiot who's actively making bad choices in the absence of evidence to the contrary, but I'm also not going to assume that you're doing much that isn't there. Letting the work stand on its own is fine for museum pieces, but you're one of many dishes here, and I want to know that you know what you're doing.
I will generally not take significant magic items into account when determining what you're capable of unless you have a build-level way (e.g., item creation feats) of ensuring that you have what you say you're relying on. I will assume that you have generic magic items, but I don't like seeing magic items used to meet prereqs. If you involve specific magic items in your build, you need to really sell me on why they make you so cool that you needed to add them to the conversation.
Regarding skill presentation, I'm not going to say that there's one right way to present skill points, because there isn't. However, there are definitely lots of wrong ways to present skill points. If it's not immediately obvious at a glance what changed between level X and level X+1, that's going to make me unhappy. I humbly request that if you want to list your total ranks at each level (including skills you don't invest in at a given level), please highlight in some obvious and meaningful way which skills did and didn't change. Make them a different color, put them in boldface, add a parenthetical comment indicating how many ranks you increased the relevant skills by, or whatever. Skill tables are awful. Do your best to make them minimally awful for me. Also, please do not list your total skill bonuses (ranks and stat and synergy and whatever) in your main build table. You can put that somewhere in your write-up, but please just put your actual skill rank totals in the actual table. Please indicate, if necessary, when you're spending points cross-class. How you do this is up to you, but indicate it somewhere if you do it at all.
I will generally not penalize for fluff. Ideally I'd just like to see enough fluff or backstory to introduce me to what's going on and why I care about this Hoardstealer over that one. Exceptionally wonderful fluff may be rewarded, but this is going to be very rare. No matter what, though, make sure that your fluff matches your build. Don't tell that you're an Asmodeus-class charmer if you aren't rocking amazing bonuses to the face skills, for example. This is perhaps especially relevant for Originality; your fluff only makes you original and different if you've got something to back it up.

For the actual scores, I tend to start at 3 and then add points when I see things I like and subtract points when I see things I don't like. The criteria that follow are not an exhaustive formula or a self-contained checklist, but they're examples of what's going through my head as I'm judging your build. Many of my guidelines are indeed just guidelines rather than unbreakable rules, but if you plan on talking your way out of a situation I've said I'd rather not see you in, it's incumbent upon you to do that talking up front in your build. I'm much, much more open to explanations of how things work and/or why your build should be treated a little differently when those arguments are made early on than I will be in a dispute after the fact. This really is just a form of the first rule I put up there: make my job as easy as possible and tell me what it is you're doing and why you're doing it.

Originality:
Did I see your build coming? How closely does it hew to what I initially thought of the class at first read-through?
Coming up with a truly new strategy or trick is difficult when talking about a game that's this old. As such, I'm not going to demand that you have to give me something I've truly never seen before or prohibit anything that's already known to the community. That's unrealistic. But if you're using time-honored tricks, put your own spin on them to the extent possible. It's fine to use a beloved combo if it works, but make sure that there's more to your build than that. Make yourself different from the guy next to you who's using something similar. Convince me why your build is interesting and different. Why is your changeling Rogue more interesting than all the others? What's different about your chargebarian? Why is your Unseen Seer more interesting than the last Unseen Seer build I saw or made or judged? Why should I remember your Totemist grappler more than the Totemist grappler next to you?
I'm not fond of shameless Originality grabs. This is subjective and I'm telling you up front that it's subjective, but to be honest, I know it when I see it. What I'm basically trying to get across is that if you're doing something weird or using something weird, make sure that there's a reason for it! If you dig through, say, WotC's website archives and find some crazy race or spell or feat that I've never seen before and it makes everything flow together in ways that you couldn't have done otherwise, that's wonderful, and I'll probably reward you! But if you bring in some crazy race that I've never heard of and then just treat the character as though they were a human or a halfling (especially if you aren't really letting the crazy race's features shine; mechanics are more important than fluff for me), I'm going to wonder why you bothered, and I'm going to feel like that's a shameless Originality grab. ("Crazy race" is just an example. It could be any game element. By all means, bring in exotic stuff! Just make sure that there's a reason for it other than "well, I didn't think anyone else would.")
It's okay if you've got elements that are used by other chefs in your build, but you need to capture my attention and make it clear why you're interesting and different even if you're mostly constructed from the same Legos.

Power:
Do you succeed at what you set out to do? That's really the core of Power: what's your goal, and how well did you achieve that goal? This doesn't mean that I need you to be the MVP of your party after every session, but I want to know what you're trying to do, why what you're trying to do matters, and how you achieved your goal.
If your build mostly shines in specific scenarios (as I suspect will be fairly common with Hoardstealer), how well can you engineer those scenarios without a doormat GM, and/or how well can you function if you aren't in your primary element? If you need to get yourself into a specific kind of trouble to shine, can you both get yourself in and get yourself out?
Is it clear what role you play in the party? You don't have to be pigeonholed (and indeed, I like seeing a broad metaphorical skillset), but do you have a clear job that you can do better than most other folks can?
Is it clear that you either can survive without a group or that you can mix well with a generic group that you find yourself dropped into? I won't demand that you necessarily do both, but I don't want to see you using a ton of party-unfriendly tactics but obviously be dependent on having someone back you up, for example.
How limited are your resources? How much "juice" do you need to blow to perform at your desired power level for three, four, five, or even six encounters in a day? (I'm almost more interested in your "standard" performance than in your "big flashy nova" performance, if such a distinction is necessary.) If you can only do something cool a small number of times per day, did you make it clear to me what you're doing when your primary tactic is unavailable?
If you can't do what you primarily want to do for some reason (e.g., it's not relevant to the adventure's challenges, you're up against foes with obnoxious immunities or other aspects that make your tricks less useful, you're out of juice or other daily resources that you rely on, you don't have as much time as you normally think you do, you're caught without or otherwise stripped of your key buffs, etc.), how completely screwed are you, and how much of a backup plan do you have to still be relevant or to change the situation into one more to your liking?
How wide a level range does your build really shine over? It's almost inevitable to have a handful of "startup levels" at the beginning where you're not really very special (though I do love seeing a strong early game; it's almost always good to exceed my expectations rather than to buy into them!), and most builds that aren't primary spellcasters will tend to reach a certain point in the mid-game or the late game where they aren't bringing much that's new to the table, but the wider a range you really shine at, the better. Remember that tactics that work at low levels may not work at high levels just because of the kinds of enemies you fight.
I hate to say it so bluntly, but since the class requires ranks in the stealthy skills to get in, it feels dishonest to not mention this: if you're trying to hide over an extended part of your career and you don't have Darkstalker, I need a darned good reason why. It's a godawful feat tax and I hate that it's necessary, but let me be honest: if you're trying to be stealthy long-term and that stealthiness is critical to your character concept, it's really, really necessary. I'm willing to listen to explanations of why you might have a workaround, and of course I'm not saying that you necessarily have to present a stealth-primary character to me. But if you do present a stealth-primary character and you don't have a way of hiding from the super-common extra senses that WotC loved handing out, you're going to be at a disadvantage here. Like, I honestly hate saying this, but realistically, it's gonna factor into my judgments, so it's only fair to say that.
I personally am not super fond of level adjustment. I don't like delaying cool class features, and it's really punishing to have fewer HD (meaning lower HP, lower skills, lower BAB, and lower saves, not to mention delaying when you get feats). I will not tell you not to use LA, because there are times when using something with LA is genuinely more interesting than not doing that. But make sure that you have a reason for it and make sure that it's crystal clear to me what that reason is. If it feels like you're just casually using it and not getting a really intense benefit, I'm likely to dock you points in Power.
Do all of your major choices (race, 20 class levels or equivalent, feats, etc.) matter? Prereqs are just plain part and parcel of 3.5 optimization, but if it feels like half of your build is dead weight that's just taking up space until you qualify for the good stuff, that's less interesting than if you make things pop at every turn. If you take a feat or a level or whatever that isn't a prereq, make sure that you get a good return on it! Minimize, to the extent possible, the number of "boring levels" (that doesn't necessarily mean dead levels with no class features) that don't really make you more interesting or more powerful. Make all your choices matter and minimize dead weight.
Are your basic numbers up to snuff? I don't have a hard-and-fast table of numbers that I want you to hit, but if you say that you're doing something, make sure that you've got the crunch to back it up. Don't tell me, for example, that you're relying on melee long-term with 10s in all your physical stats and low BAB unless you're getting your bonuses from somewhere else. You don't necessarily need to be able to be an unhittable tank, but if you're ever going to be shot at or swung at (which is true for nearly everyone), do you have some source of AC or of equivalent ways to not be hit or to not care about being hit? I recognize that most of this sort of thing comes from magic items, but I'd like to see at least a token acknowledgement of what's going on here.
I attempt to factor the level at which game elements come online into your Power. I will not necessarily judge a given PrC the same if you enter it at level 7 versus if you enter it at level 15. I will weight things more heavily in the early game than in the late game, and to be entirely honest, you need to pull out something crazy to make me really pay attention at level 18+, especially level 20. (Truenamers aren't good just because they get Gate at level 20.) Be warned that this may lead to tension with UoSI, of course. I will follow One Mistake, One Penalty, but it's only fair to warn you that prioritizing a non-SI class early might cost you in UoSI while putting it later may mean that it doesn't strongly affect your Power. I do try to be holistic, though. It is not the case that entering the SI ASAP and finishing it ASAP is the true path to victory or even to a high UoSI. But the point is that elements of your build that come online late are much less likely to influence your Power score than elements that come online early.
Hoardstealer is a class that's intended for Rogues and other skillmonkey-types. How does your build compare to a generic Rogue (or Factotum or Scout or whatever other class you entered as)? Since WotC wanted you to be a Rogue going in, the baseline here is Rogue 20 or something very similar; if you don't present me with a clear power level that you're shooting for or with a clear reason why you should be judged against a different baseline, I'm going to be kind of defaulting to that. (Does this mean that I necessarily want you to be a Rogue? No. You can be one, or you can be something totally different. But that's the approximate power baseline I have in my head until you give me a reason to expect otherwise, such as by showing up with way more spells than I initially anticipated or something else like that.)

Elegance:
First things first: CITE YOUR SOURCES. Failure to include a source list and to indicate which build elements came from which books will result in an automatic -1 to Elegance. You have been warned. (I won't be a hard-ass about stuff from the PHB, but this really ties into making it easy for me: don't make me scramble to figure out where the hell that weird feat you used came from, you know?)
Make sure that you're legal at every level. Always check all the prereqs for each and every one of your feats and your PrCs. Always know which skills are in-class for each class. (If you have something that messes with which skills are class skills, please tell me that.) Remember the order of leveling up from PHB pp. 58-9. If you're getting bonus feats from somewhere, double-check whether each feat you're taking is on the approved list for that source of bonus feats. Alignment restrictions are stupid and I try to relax them in a real game, but they're RAW, so don't play fast and loose with them unless you've got a super good explanation to the contrary.
And just to save you some time to call out the most common errors I see in prereqs and in bonus feats, Toughness/Endurance/the Great Fortitude line are NOT FIGHTER BONUS FEATS, Obtain Familiar requires 4 ranks in K: Arcana, Practiced Spellcaster requires 4 ranks in Spellcraft, and Weapon Finesse bafflingly requires BAB +1. I don't know why so many people get those wrong. Don't be among them! For that matter, as baffling as this is, Hide and Move Silently are NOT CLASS SKILLS FOR HOARDSTEALER. Please don't make me penalize you for that. It's incredibly stupid that they aren't class skills, but they aren't class skills!
Once we're past the bare-bones basics of legality and presenting sources, how well does the build flow together? If I were to look at the build one level at a time without knowing what comes next, how often would I say "okay, that's logical" and how often would I say "wait, why did you put THAT there?" It's okay to fall short of the ideal a little bit, but I want to see you striving for that sort of thing.
I don't care one tiny bit about multiclassing penalties. Multiclass yourself into oblivion for all I care.
I will not penalize for pulling from obscure sources (though as I mentioned in Originality, I may dock in Originality for a shameless grab) as long as those sources are cited and are legal for the competition. I will not penalize for pulling from lots of books as long as all the material you use is relevant.
ACFs are fine, but keep track of what you're giving away with each one. You can't trade what you don't have, and I've more than once seen someone ACF themselves away from qualifying for something else.
I tend to be lenient about using setting-specific material unless it's really egregious (I don't care one bit if you take some generic feats from cross-setting sources, for example, but don't tell me that you both are part of a dragonmarked house and are a member in good standing of some Faerun-specific church, just to throw a hopefully sufficiently crazy example out there). Can't speak for other judges, of course.
Dipping here and there is not automatically inelegant if there's an obvious reason for it; I'd rather see you picking up a few prereqs in a single level rather than plodding along a less direct (but "dipless") route if you aren't getting much else out of the deal. However, be aware that throwing in classes that don't seem to do you any good will be considered to be inelegant. Make sure that everything you present as part of your dish is there for a reason.
This is sometimes more possible than others, but I like to see prereqs doing double duty. This can mean actually using them as prereqs for multiple different game elements or it can simply mean making sure that you get a good use out of them even before the goal comes online. Again, you might not always be able to reach the ideal, but that doesn't mean it's not worth reaching for it.
It is rare for a skillful character with multiple different classes to have a completely even and unbroken progression of skills over 20 levels. This is normal and I expect it. That said, "lumpy" skills tend to be inelegant; I don't like to see builds that constantly lunge from skill to skill dumping in four or six or eight points at a time and then letting the skill just stick around waiting for the next binge investment. It's going to happen a little bit, and that's normal and fine, but try not to do it more than is necessary. (I also generally find it weird when you go from no ranks in a skill to a whole ton of ranks in the skill all at once in the middle of your build; it can happen and I've seen it successfully defended as being elegant, but understand that you're likely going to need to explain it.)
To build on the discussion of skill ranks, "cowlick" ranks (single ranks or otherwise small investments in skills taken midgame or late game with no real explanation) are confusing to me. I do recognize that sometimes you just don't have anywhere to put a spare rank, especially if you're taking lots of different classes or if something is cross-class for a number of levels that would result in a half-rank that never becomes a full rank, but when you stick a spare point or two into something weird, tell me why! Almost anything can be argued into being elegant, but it's on you to make that argument.
As should be obvious, if you're using a questionable interpretation of the rules, you'd better make that argument and convince me why it's worthwhile or why you're actually correct. Try not to use too much that's questionable.

Use of Secret Ingredient:
The single most important job you have is this: convince me that you need to be a Hoardstealer and that the build just won't work with other classes. Everything else that I'm talking about in this category is just an explanation of this or something that falls under this rule's umbrella. Convince me that Hoardstealer is the obvious choice for you and that the build is clearly Hoardstealer first and all the supporting structure second.
Use whatever unique abilities the class gives you to the maximum extent possible, even if you can't necessarily make them the centerpiece! If the SI gives you some tricks that you can't really get elsewhere and some tricks that you can get from other common classes, I obviously want to see you using everything, but what do you think is going to really let you convince me that the SI is the best choice you could have possibly made?
Ordinarily, I have a line or two here about trying to make the SI's prereqs meaningful even after you enter the class, which generally means trying to keep the prereq skills at acceptably high ranks and trying to keep getting use out of any prereq feats. Of course, this SI requires high ranks in two skills that it doesn't offer as class skills for some incredibly stupid reason, so that's a little bit less of a cut-and-dried sort of thing in this particular case. Still, make the prereqs feel meaningful in whatever way you can, and you're likely to do better than if you treat them as something to be gotten out of the way and then ignored.
Taking more of the SI is better than taking less of the SI. In a case like this one where the SI stops offering unique features for the last few levels, this is a wee bit squishier than when the class has an actual capstone that you'd be giving up, but let's face it: we aren't taking these Sis because they're amazing and wonderful classes from start to finish. Part of the challenge before you is to convince me that you really care about those last few levels. Like everything else, you can probably talk your way out of a penalty if you bend or break this guideline, but you'll have some explaining to do, and I want you to do it in your actual build rather than in a post-hoc dispute.
Showcase as much of the SI as possible. Hoardstealer is going to be a hard nut to crack here because so many of its abilities are passive or situational. We all know this going in. But don't ignore more than you have to ignore—do your best to show me what you're doing with the features (just name-dropping them isn't what I care about; show me what they let you do!) to the fullest extent possible. Once again, you very well may fall short of this ideal, but the more I see you reaching for the ideal, the happier I will be.
Don't give me some random build that has Hoardstealer plopped randomly in the middle of it. Spell out for me why you care about being a Hoardstealer and why being a Hoardstealer makes you awesome in ways that the rest of your build couldn't do alone.
For extra credit, I have a handful of goofy ideas that I thought about and rejected as options when I was considering cooking for this round. If your build stumbles across something in a similar vein and shows it off, that's likely to make me happy! It's far from a requirement and not the only way to get a good score here, but if chance allows you to come up with a better use for the half-formed ideas I discarded, I'll definitely mention that.

I could probably keep talking, but I don't know if that would make anyone happy. I'll stop for now. I can't wait to see what everyone comes up with!

Efrate

2018-06-03, 05:42 PM

The why hordestealer vs. Anything else is going to be a big hurdle. A dragon specific sneak thief that doesn't sneak well out the box makes it tough for me to honestly choose it other than it being the SI. I have a good fluff reason, but mechanically I have nothing, unless I dip into hardcore formàge territory.

daremetoidareyo

2018-06-03, 06:24 PM

unless I dip into hardcore formàge territory.

There is no other territory.

Venger

2018-06-03, 07:57 PM

There is no other territory.

there isn't (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nW3-9gdjYA)

Very thorough, Zaq. Thanks for explaining your rationale.

When you write something of that length, I assume you're prepared for questions. I have a few:

I hate to say it so bluntly, but since the class requires ranks in the stealthy skills to get in, it feels dishonest to not mention this: if you're trying to hide over an extended part of your career and you don't have Darkstalker, I need a darned good reason why. It's a godawful feat tax and I hate that it's necessary, but let me be honest: if you're trying to be stealthy long-term and that stealthiness is critical to your character concept, it's really, really necessary. I'm willing to listen to explanations of why you might have a workaround, and of course I'm not saying that you necessarily have to present a stealth-primary character to me. But if you do present a stealth-primary character and you don't have a way of hiding from the super-common extra senses that WotC loved handing out, you're going to be at a disadvantage here. Like, I honestly hate saying this, but realistically, it's gonna factor into my judgments, so it's only fair to say that.

Would "taking 10 levels in a prestige class that doesn't offer hide/ms" be such a reason?

It is rare for a skillful character with multiple different classes to have a completely even and unbroken progression of skills over 20 levels. This is normal and I expect it. That said, "lumpy" skills tend to be inelegant; I don't like to see builds that constantly lunge from skill to skill dumping in four or six or eight points at a time and then letting the skill just stick around waiting for the next binge investment. It's going to happen a little bit, and that's normal and fine, but try not to do it more than is necessary. (I also generally find it weird when you go from no ranks in a skill to a whole ton of ranks in the skill all at once in the middle of your build; it can happen and I've seen it successfully defended as being elegant, but understand that you're likely going to need to explain it.)
I really dislike this. Why do you find it weird? If I don't have basketweaving at level 5, but gain it at level 6, I'm going to put my points into that skill at level 6 so I can buy them at cost instead of having them vanish into the ether, like I would've if I'd bought them at 5. What kind of explanation will assuage you regarding this? In a class this demanding skillswise, I don't want to worry about having to put cc ranks into skills I won't use for man levels.

To build on the discussion of skill ranks, "cowlick" ranks (single ranks or otherwise small investments in skills taken midgame or late game with no real explanation) are confusing to me. I do recognize that sometimes you just don't have anywhere to put a spare rank, especially if you're taking lots of different classes or if something is cross-class for a number of levels that would result in a half-rank that never becomes a full rank, but when you stick a spare point or two into something weird, tell me why! Almost anything can be argued into being elegant, but it's on you to make that argument.

Would something to the effect of "basketweaving is a trained-only skill, and I put one rank in it at x level to activate it. investment beyond that is unnecessary and I waited til now to avoid buying it cc" be a sufficient explanation of this? if not, what would?

Ordinarily, I have a line or two here about trying to make the SI's prereqs meaningful even after you enter the class, which generally means trying to keep the prereq skills at acceptably high ranks and trying to keep getting use out of any prereq feats. Of course, this SI requires high ranks in two skills that it doesn't offer as class skills for some incredibly stupid reason, so that's a little bit less of a cut-and-dried sort of thing in this particular case. Still, make the prereqs feel meaningful in whatever way you can, and you're likely to do better than if you treat them as something to be gotten out of the way and then ignored.
does that include open lock, which literally does not do anything?

The Viscount

2018-06-03, 08:56 PM

Thank you for your thoroughness, Zaq. I especially appreciate the heads up about Darkstalker.

Zaq

2018-06-04, 09:31 AM

there isn't (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nW3-9gdjYA)

Very thorough, Zaq. Thanks for explaining your rationale.

When you write something of that length, I assume you're prepared for questions. I have a few:

Would "taking 10 levels in a prestige class that doesn't offer hide/ms" be such a reason?

If you present a stealthy character who cares about being stealthy, you need Darkstalker to be taken seriously. If you're presenting a character who isn't trying to be stealthy, Darkstalker isn't going to be much of a concern.

I really dislike this. Why do you find it weird? If I don't have basketweaving at level 5, but gain it at level 6, I'm going to put my points into that skill at level 6 so I can buy them at cost instead of having them vanish into the ether, like I would've if I'd bought them at 5. What kind of explanation will assuage you regarding this? In a class this demanding skillswise, I don't want to worry about having to put cc ranks into skills I won't use for man levels.

Would something to the effect of "basketweaving is a trained-only skill, and I put one rank in it at x level to activate it. investment beyond that is unnecessary and I waited til now to avoid buying it cc" be a sufficient explanation of this? if not, what would?

It's not so much that you only take skills as in-class rather than as cross-class; that's entirely natural and it's usually appropriate. It's when you go from 0 to 60 in the space of a single level rather than spreading it out a little bit. There are times when it's appropriate to go from "I have 0 ranks in this skill at level X (even though I could have benefited from it earlier), but I have 8 ranks and a related feat in this skill at level X + 1," but usually that makes me raise an eyebrow. I do attempt to be holistic to the extent possible, though, so if it makes sense in context, that's great.

In general, I'm willing to be convinced about a lot of things when I'm doing my actual judging. As long as you've presented a clear and intentional argument in your build writeup about why you're doing this weird thing, there's a good chance that I'll listen to you. (After-the-fact arguments in disputes are significantly less likely to succeed, but have that conversation with me in your build itself and I'm not quite so hardheaded as I might appear.)

does that include open lock, which literally does not do anything?

As I said, Hoardstealer is kind of a special case that doesn't fit the normal guidelines so smoothly. Really, just tell me what you're doing and why you're doing it, make sure that I understand what's happening and that I understand that you know what you're doing, and we'll probably get along fine. My guidelines aren't a formulaic checklist; they're just some, well, guidelines about what's going to be going through my head and what sorts of things I'm likely to reward or discourage.

Clear as mud?

WhamBamSam

2018-06-06, 03:52 PM

One build in. I'm convinced at least one other person will submit something with at least 85% overlapping levels though, so I'd like to hammer out the details of one of my other, more unique (but probably less good and certainly less elegant) ideas as well.

Thurbane

2018-06-06, 04:54 PM

I don't know if my idea is worth getting an entry in for or not. Also, my time and effort is currently going into finishing up my Villainous Comp entry...

RaiKirah

2018-06-06, 05:19 PM

I have this trick that I really want to use, but I'm having a difficult time making the build at all cohesive thematically, mechanically, or even aesthetically :(

I'm going to keep trying to find a way to make it happen that I like, but I may have to bow out, or try to find a different build.

jdizzlean

2018-06-10, 08:35 AM

1st idea: illegal
2nd idea: practically impossible
3rd idea: seems like Vizzini...
4th idea: seems pointless

Personally, I always recommend ideas that clash strongly with the way the Man wants you to enter the class.

i started, i dunno, like my 10th idea, but I've let it fall to the wayside with zero F's given. I think I'll try my 2nd idea again, I was at least excited about that..

I see that the build deadline is pushed all the way out to the 26th of this month... so at least I'll have time to figure this out.

jdizzlean

2018-06-11, 08:51 AM

Zaq

pm to you sir

WhamBamSam

2018-06-14, 01:04 PM

And build number 2 is in. Looking forward to the reveal.

Venger

2018-06-14, 09:30 PM

My dish is in. This was a really fun ingredient. Qualification utterly kicked my ass. I had to take a few stabs at it.

The Viscount

2018-06-16, 11:27 AM

I also really struggled to align what I wanted to do with what the class wanted me to do in order to enter. I'll be happy to do a non-skillfull character after this.

Venger

2018-06-17, 01:01 AM

Yeah, I could go for a brute after this.

Zaq

2018-06-17, 03:20 PM

I’m looking forward to an ingredient that lets me use the cheeky backstory I’ve been sitting on for a couple of months. You know, without obviously forcing it in with a crowbar.

But yeah, I think Fatemaker/EotX/Hoardstealer, while all fine (and awful) ingredients, are similar enough to encourage a wild break with the next one. Not that I’m specifically complaining, mind you. You’ll notice that I’m quite definitely participating (in one form or another) for each of those three rounds. Still, I agree, a brute might make sense, or maybe something that leans more towards the divine side of things? Though that’s kind of asking for another half-caster, which is its own special kind of hell. Brute sounds better and better, now that I think about it.

Venger

2018-06-17, 03:22 PM

Heliomance

2018-06-17, 05:25 PM

So what I'm hearing is that people want Berserk next?

Falontani

2018-06-17, 05:53 PM

From deities and demigods? That is one I've always wondered how I'd use it, but wanted to

Piggy Knowles

2018-06-17, 06:09 PM

Eye of Gruumsh is still out there waiting...

WhamBamSam

2018-06-17, 06:28 PM

Disciple of Thrym and Vassal of Bahamut are brute types with their own divine casting.

Maybe Doomlord? It randomly offers half-casting, but everything else about it is brutish.

Looking through my SI wishlist, I see Kinslayer, Eye of Gruumsh, Mortal Hunter, and my old standby of Beast Heart Adept which could all fit the bill for a primary melee ingredient.

So what I'm hearing is that people want Berserk next?I was going to make a joke about how we'd probably actually get Spinemeld Warrior or Shining Blade for asking for something brutish and/or with divine flavor, but you beat me to it with something even worse. I reread that class every time you threaten us with it, and can never quite believe just how bad it is. For instance, I had either forgotten or previously not noticed that Battle Fury is a standard action.

Thurbane

2018-06-17, 07:14 PM

Any kind of melee type with 2 skills/level (and preferably no casting) would be great by me.

Skillmonkeys and casters can sometimes be a formatting nightmare. The simpler the better. :smalltongue:

http://db4sgowjqfwig.cloudfront.net/campaigns/123273/assets/587868/Human_Thug.png

Venger

2018-06-17, 08:16 PM

So what I'm hearing is that people want Berserk next?
Oh my god.

Seconding mortal hunter. I've always wanted that to be an iron chef.

Zaq

2018-06-17, 09:38 PM

Berserk has an awful lot of problems. Like, an awful lot of problems. One of the many problems is how badly it's written, to say nothing of how it's designed. Like, those prereqs, for example. Do you have to actually spend the feat slots? The PHB classes do say (in the feat section, I think) that gaining proficiency from a class takes the form of the feat, but if you happen to not be using PHB classes, that is significantly less clear.

I have some ideas for Berserk, but they're all just making fun of the awful mechanics rather than actually using the class in any way that could be considered anything close to intended. Which, you know, is probably fun in its own right, though I'm afraid that since the class offers so bloody little else, everyone's just going to lunge straight for the weird stuff. I guess we're all just going to have to bring our A-games.

Also, that 5th level. Is there a deader level out there (NPC classes notwithstanding)? I mean, dead levels are all over the place, but a dead level with no BAB increase and no save increases is pretty bad indeed. Add in the fact that your skills are garbage, and you're basically just gaining HP.

Venger

2018-06-17, 09:45 PM

Berserk has an awful lot of problems. Like, an awful lot of problems. One of the many problems is how badly it's written, to say nothing of how it's designed. Like, those prereqs, for example. Do you have to actually spend the feat slots? The PHB classes do say (in the feat section, I think) that gaining proficiency from a class takes the form of the feat, but if you happen to not be using PHB classes, that is significantly less clear.

No.

If you have proficiency with medium armor from class (won't get into specifics in case it's picked into the future) then it gives you the feat "medium armor proficiency" same as how elves give you martial weapon profiency with all that crap.

I have some ideas for Berserk, but they're all just making fun of the awful mechanics rather than actually using the class in any way that could be considered anything close to intended. Which, you know, is probably fun in its own right, though I'm afraid that since the class offers so bloody little else, everyone's just going to lunge straight for the weird stuff. I guess we're all just going to have to bring our A-games.
Honestly, that's where we get our best stuff, like ootbi. No one took that seriously, and all the builds were pisstakes.

Also, that 5th level. Is there a deader level out there (NPC classes notwithstanding)? I mean, dead levels are all over the place, but a dead level with no BAB increase and no save increases is pretty bad indeed. Add in the fact that your skills are garbage, and you're basically just gaining HP.
risen martyr 0. It doesn't give HD either.

Heliomance

2018-06-18, 02:46 AM

Venger

2018-06-18, 03:00 AM

WhamBamSam

2018-06-18, 09:23 AM

I'd be perfectly happy to never see Berserk as a SI, but I do now have a few ideas filed away in the ol' emergency bunker next to to the other extra terrible stuff.

The Viscount

2018-06-18, 09:44 AM

My love for berserker's hilariously stupid features just barely edges out logic stating how awful it is.

Any of these other PrCs would make for great ingredients, Kinslayer especially because it's trying to do all sorts of stuff, even if none of it is any good.

Troacctid

2018-06-18, 11:15 AM

There's all those Thrall of [Demon Lord] and Disciple of [Archdevil] prestige classes too. Have we done Thrall of Juiblex, or Thrall of Graz'zt, or Disciple of Mephistopheles yet?

The Viscount

2018-06-18, 02:03 PM

Venger

2018-06-18, 02:09 PM

We haven't done any of them except for Demogorgon. Mephistopheles would be quite difficult, and echoes strongly of pyrokineticist. I personally think Thrall of Juiblex would be too good for an SI.

Thrall of Graz'zt makes me very excited. Do you think that apostrophe is supposed to be voiced of represent anything? Or is he just a dragonrider?

We actually also did thrall of ORCUS! but yeah, we haven't touched any of the others. I've always just pronounced it as though it weren't there, like apostrophes in american english, rather than as a glottal stop.

Karl Aegis

2018-06-18, 04:47 PM

Complete Warrior still has stuff like Ravager in it. Berserk seems to have the ability to indefinitely turn into a gargantuan whale for some reason. I may be in this round depending on if I feel like typing up my backstory or not.

Troacctid

2018-06-18, 04:49 PM

I actually really like Thrall of Zuggtmoy but I guess it's probably off the table.

Thurbane

2018-06-18, 04:56 PM

In terms of full BAB, I'm somewhat partial to Dragon Lord as an ingredient: It's like Dragon Shaman (or Marshal), but watered down and without a breath weapon. On the plus side, it's very easy to qualify for, so you should get a wide range of entries.

http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/images/dmag_gallery/100225.jpg

WhamBamSam

2018-06-18, 07:28 PM

There's all those Thrall of [Demon Lord] and Disciple of [Archdevil] prestige classes too. Have we done Thrall of Juiblex, or Thrall of Graz'zt, or Disciple of Mephistopheles yet?I really like Thrall of Juiblex, but it's probably too good for IC. Thrall of Graz'zt and Disciple of Mephistopheles could be cool. There's also Disciple of Mammon, Thrall of Eltab from Champions of Ruin, which I had previously been a bit down on as a SI, but on reflection think has enough differentiating it from the Thralls we've already done, and on a similar note I've been lobbying for Demonologist for a while now as well.

In terms of full BAB, I'm somewhat partial to Dragon Lord as an ingredient: It's like Dragon Shaman (or Marshal), but watered down and without a breath weapon. On the plus side, it's very easy to qualify for, so you should get a wide range of entries.

http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/images/dmag_gallery/100225.jpgOof, that's a bad one, especially since the Leadership ban cuts away one of its few class features.

Kelb_Panthera

2018-06-18, 07:54 PM

Disciple of Thrym and Vassal of Bahamut are brute types with their own divine casting.

Qualifying for that on time is a genuine feat. Seriously, kill a CR 10 dragon, solo, by level 7. WTF?

Thurbane

2018-06-18, 09:28 PM

Qualifying for that on time is a genuine feat. Seriously, kill a CR 10 dragon, solo, by level 7. WTF?

How many Arrows of Dragon Slaying can you afford at ECL 7? It's got to roll a 1 on it's save sooner or later. Probably not until after it's reduced you to confetti though. :smalleek:

Kelb_Panthera

2018-06-18, 09:32 PM

How many Arrows of Dragon Slaying can you afford at ECL 7? It's got to roll a 1 on it's save sooner or later. Probably not until after it's reduced you to confetti though. :smalleek:

Been looking at that puzzle with paladin entry in mind for a -long- time now. I'm all ears for anyone who's got an idea that's not pure cheese.

... Making a thread.

Venger

2018-06-18, 09:34 PM

How many Arrows of Dragon Slaying can you afford at ECL 7? It's got to roll a 1 on it's save sooner or later. Probably not until after it's reduced you to confetti though. :smalleek:

Well, that locks you into being an archer, which vassal of bahamut supports about as poorly as everything else.

I won't speculate too much more in case that's what's inflicted on us next.

KrimsonNekros

2018-06-18, 10:59 PM

And squeaking in under the wire.

PunBlake

2018-06-20, 01:28 PM

daremetoidareyo

2018-06-20, 01:32 PM

Efrate

2018-06-21, 08:23 PM

Got it in, thank goodness. That took forever. Novice dish of weirdness coming your way!

Venger

2018-06-21, 08:25 PM

best of luck to you

KrimsonNekros

2018-06-22, 12:09 AM

Got it in, thank goodness. That took forever. Novice dish of weirdness coming your way!

those always bring something awesome to the table, even if they don't score well. best of luck.

Zaq

2018-06-22, 12:53 AM

First forum post. I'm a long-time, no-account lurker.
My heart was stolen by the SI. I have been quietly cooking something up since the contest started, and have decided the dish is good enough to enter.
Don't worry about me meeting the entry deadline; I'm in formatting and final write-up phase, and I have a weekend to spend as much time as I want making things look pretty.
@Heliomance, I have a couple FAQ-like questions that will not have any build impact but would (likely) reveal which entry is mine to the judge, so I will PM them to you in the next 24 hours.

Got it in, thank goodness. That took forever. Novice dish of weirdness coming your way!

Awesome! Welcome!

My only idea requires and exploitation of [redacted] so much so that it becomes like a DM Fiat issue.

Depending on the number of entries, I'm down to judge. I'll try to be real Darrin about it. That guy can give you last place but still makes you feel good about what you liked about your build. Keep in mind, that's an aspiration, not a promise.

Are dare said, welcome to any newcomers who put in the effort to join our crazy little club here! The best advice I can give you (aside from, you know, my way-the-hell-too-long judging guidelines I posted a ways back) is to just get in there and try things out. Learn by doing.

I have a probably-well-deserved reputation for being kind of a mean judge. Please believe me when I say that nothing in my judgments is intended to be personal or to be hurtful, and I do my very best to be fair and even-handed across the board—in other words, if I judge harshly, it's not because I'm judging you harshly so much as because I'm judging everyone harshly. I mean this with 100% sincerity: you are awesome just for entering. It's a lot of work!

That said, dare's comment about trying to judge like Darrin is, I have to say, inspirational. We'll see just how well I can succeed on such a thing, but maybe I should try to focus on positive things rather than on little nitpicks here and there. I mean, it sounds like we've got an awful lot of builds coming in, so drastically departing from what I'm used to might be a risky proposition, but we'll see!

Hiro Quester

2018-06-22, 02:23 AM

That is a fun but frustrating ingredient to think about how a build generating on it would work, mechanically, and just how to augment it with enough special sauces and spices to be very infuriating to the dragons it could torment or thwart.

I wish I could make time to turn my slightly weird idea for a build into a fully-fleshed-out entry.

The fact that it doesn't get much new class abilities after 4th level, but just improvements on existing ones, makes it a somewhat frustrating ingredient, too. My idea wouldn't use all 10 levels, anyway, so would lose points for elegance, anyway.

I'm going to be lurking here to see what the final builds for this end up being.

PunBlake

2018-06-22, 04:18 AM

snip
I'm more worried about the character limit or a possible Vizzini than harsh judging, though even with that, a similar dish would likely be... presented differently.
Thanks for the welcomes. Formatting instead of sleeping.

Efrate

2018-06-22, 06:10 AM

Yeah my entry had to be split into 2 messages, character limit is a pain.

As for severe judging, throw what you want at me, I can roll with any punches. It's all in good fun. I'm mostly worried about formatting, I think I have all the html right. I just hope i didnt forget anything.

PrismCat21

2018-06-22, 10:06 AM

~snip~
I suggest deleting the first part of your post immediately, as it will identify you once the builds are revealed.

daremetoidareyo

2018-06-22, 10:35 AM

I suggest deleting the first part of your post immediately, as it will identify you once the builds are revealed.

Not if the character limit of posts (50k) isn't superseded. Messages can only be 25k.

Zaq

2018-06-22, 10:53 AM

Yeah, I routinely have to send my builds to Helio in multiple chunks, but they almost always still get posted as one post.

For a build with spells, even just the basic build tables take up a pretty large portion of the character limit. (The blank level table and blank 20-level spell table are almost 6,000 characters together. It's rare to use the full 20-level spell table most of the time, but that's also before actually putting in skills or feats or levels or whatever.) Of course, my builds also tend to be pretty obnoxiously verbose on top of that, but the point is, Helio knows what she's doing and knows to stitch multiple PMs into one post when possible and appropriate.

jdizzlean

2018-06-24, 09:16 AM

The worst thing about Berserk (and the reason why I probably won't ever actually inflict it on you) is the way it only has about three levels of class features. IIRC, it genuinely doesn't give you anything new after level 3, just more uses of the things you have already.

The fact that it doesn't get much new class abilities after 4th level, but just improvements on existing ones, makes it a somewhat frustrating ingredient, too.

so 3/10 is the threshold for not going to do it, but 4/10 is acceptable? lol :roach:

almost done w/ my only entry. It's probably the most iron-cheffy one i've ever done, but i'm in no delusions that it'll medal given the pool of competitors here, we'll see.

jdizzlean

2018-06-24, 04:21 PM

Yeah my entry had to be split into 2 messages, character limit is a pain.

*snip*.

I always review my build a few times on the board before sending it in. Just reply to any topic, paste all your code in and hit preview. Once it all looks good, copy the text field, overwrite your text file or whatever you're using and then send that in to the chair. Prevents any weird formatting errors from popping up after the fact.

Zaq

2018-06-24, 05:05 PM

I always review my build a few times on the board before sending it in. Just reply to any topic, paste all your code in and hit preview. Once it all looks good, copy the text field, overwrite your text file or whatever you're using and then send that in to the chair. Prevents any weird formatting errors from popping up after the fact.

This, but to keep from accidentally posting my build in a random topic somewhere, I do this in a PM to myself.

Venger

2018-06-24, 08:05 PM

This, but to keep from accidentally posting my build in a random topic somewhere, I do this in a PM to myself.

I use the "new thread" thing so I can move stuff around if my dish is more than 25k that time around.

Troacctid

2018-06-25, 01:22 AM

I was looking through Sword and Fist today and there are some interesting ones in there. I could see Gladiator, Master of Chains, Ninja of the Crescent Moon, and Warmaster all being good ingredients.

jdizzlean

2018-06-25, 10:40 AM

24 hours later, after yet another 20 revisions or so, and finally done :)

can't wait to see what everyone else has come up with!

PunBlake

2018-06-25, 11:37 AM

Formatting complete. I just need to write up the backstory that's in my head and some sweet spots so I can submit.

WhamBamSam

2018-06-25, 12:40 PM

I was looking through Sword and Fist today and there are some interesting ones in there. I could see Gladiator, Master of Chains, Ninja of the Crescent Moon, and Warmaster all being good ingredients.The Ninja base class is apparently considered to be an update of Ninja of the Crescent Moon, though Heliomance has suggested that it might eventually be a SI anyway.

Gladiator is bad in a vaguely interesting way. I have some rough ideas for it.

Requiring Weapon Specialization drastically restricts the possible entries into Master of Chains and Warmaster, and Warmaster would require special dispensation on the Leadership ban.

Super psyched for the reveal. It's looking like this'll be a great round.

The Viscount

2018-06-25, 06:07 PM

I was looking through Sword and Fist today and there are some interesting ones in there. I could see Gladiator, Master of Chains, Ninja of the Crescent Moon, and Warmaster all being good ingredients.

As Sam has pointed out, Ninja of the Crescent Moon is officially counted as folded into Ninja base class, but I'm perfectly fine ignoring that and just having a round with it. Or if we're doing 3.0 ninjas, there's always Ninja Spy.

The same document also nixed Master of Chains by folding it into Exotic Weapons Master, but again the two don't really have anything to do with each other.

Warmaster I'm wary of since it leans so heavily on Leadership.

Gladiator seems like fun.

PunBlake

2018-06-25, 11:14 PM

We have a slight problem. @Heliomance, your inbox is full now. I submitted the majority of my entry.

The Viscount

2018-06-26, 01:19 AM

Well that's awkward for me as well. I suppose that's what I get for putting it off until now. I've got it all finished up, though, so still doing a little better than I do on average.

Heliomance

2018-06-26, 10:40 AM

Inbox is now cleared. Have an extra day to give time to resubmit if necessary.

PunBlake

2018-06-26, 11:18 AM

Build submission complete.

The Viscount

2018-06-26, 04:02 PM

Me, too. Thanks for the heads up, Helio.

KrimsonNekros

2018-06-29, 07:03 PM

Any word from the chair?

Heliomance

2018-07-01, 04:53 PM

Apologies for the delay. I usually post the results when I've got a quiet patch at work with not much to do. The past couple of weeks I've been working on a reasonably major piece of development and have been pretty full throttle, and haven't been able to take the time to do it. I'm hoping to pass it off to test tomorrow, so hopefully I should have time to post it soon.

Thurbane

2018-07-01, 04:58 PM

This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?562783) has brought another pretty awful full BAB class to my attention: Planar Champion (MotP, p.28). The real kicker is that the reqs kind of shoe horn you into 4 levels of Fighter, unless you get creative. :smalltongue:

daremetoidareyo

2018-07-01, 06:32 PM

If I get an entry in before tomorrow, can it count?

Venger

2018-07-01, 06:38 PM

well, you haven't seen what anyone else cooked. best of luck to you.

KrimsonNekros

2018-07-01, 08:40 PM

Heliomance

2018-07-04, 06:50 AM

Right, I've finally got a gap to deal with this. Brace yourselves - there are a lot of builds incoming!

Heliomance

2018-07-04, 06:52 AM

Someday I'll get back to having the time to come up with quips again. Ah well.

Entry number 1:

Hae Wyre

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/vp/e92ed7fbebf1c61f8996d218bccbf53c/5BB5C0F9/t51.2885-15/s640x640/sh0.08/e35/33861157_283786892162320_759804419314286592_n.jpg
Chaotic Neutral Star Elf

Planar Bard 6/cataclysm mage 3/Hoard stealer 5/Sublime Chord 1/Ultimate Magus 5

Note: If you’re not playing in a “kitchen sink” campaign, you can replace star elf with Spell Scales from Races of the Dragon. (Warning: One Very Realmsy stuffed sentence) Star elves have a pseudo-cataclysmic past, so it is reasonable to suggest a cataclysm mage refluff around being refugees from Sildenyuir.

-2 CON, +2 CHA.
Medium-sized.
Type: Humanoid (extraplanar)
Land speed 30.
Immunity to magic sleep spells and effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells and effects.
Low Light Vision Otherworldly Touch: Between sunset and sunrise a star elf confers the ghost touch ability on any melee weapon she wields and any armor she wears, but only so long as she keeps the weapon in hand or wears the armor. Star elves have a magical affinity for starlight that gives them an unusual edge in fighting extradimensional foes.
Extraplanar: Star elves are not outsiders, but they are not native to faerun. Spells and effects that target extraplanar creatures affect star elves. Banaishment, dismissal, and similar effects that banish outsiders return a star elf to Sildeyuir
+2 racial bonus on Listen, Search and Spot checks. A star elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for that door
Star elves have no racial weapon proficiencies.
Favored Class: Bard
Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: by character region.
Level Adjustment: +0

Spell Scale
+2 Charisma, -2 Con
Low-Light Vision: A spellscale can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
Humanoid (dragonblood): Spellscales are humanoids with the dragonblood subtype. For all effects related to race, a spellscale is considered a dragon.
Blood Quickening: Each day, a spellscale can perform a draconic meditation to gain a benefit. Variations of this meditation are described in the Blood-Quickening Meditations sidebar, page 25.
Favored Class: Sorcerer . A multiclass spellscale's sorcerer class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing.

32 point buy.
str 8,
dex 10,
con 12 -2 = 10
int 17,
wis 8,
cha 17+2=19
All stat bonuses go to charisma

Hae Wyre has a stay of execution in no small part for the knowledge and arcane benefits he has accrued for the mithral elf resistance against the incursion of the Nilshae. The lawbreaking that Hae engaged in remains denounced and let all others be warned that they may not employ any methods of the sort that Hae willingly flung his frail little body into.

So this little bag was levitating towards me, and it slipped right under the adamantine door. I figured it was one of Slugg’s magical trinkets, and paid it no mind. Always stop and question little floating bags! Take it from me. Slugg took one of my eyes for that robbery

We was chasin the elf. Me, Captain, and my two cousins. So, We turned a corner and found a little rope hangin. It was a little portal. Captain said it was a rope trick used by minor wizards. He sent my cousins up. And nothing happened. I thought I could hear some singing, but i din’t know. A Half day later, Captain decided to climb the rope himself. He’s still gone.

Hae Wyre has a basket of tricks all based around re-routing portals through a combination of planar bardic music use and spells, this character can get around obstacles. The first six levels play like a bard. Hae is weak and very squishy, so it is advised that he inspires courage from whatever safety he can muster.

At sixth level, he obtains portal dissonance:
Portal Dissonance (Su): A bard of 6th level or higher with 9 or more ranks in a Perform skill who selects this planar substitution benefi t can use music or poetics to infl uence intraplanar and extraplanar portals, moderate or severe planar breaches, and other discrete passages between planes (complete planar breaches cannot be affected). The portal, breach, or other qualifying passage to be affected must be centered within 60 feet. The bard must know about the portal. Each round of the performance, he attempts a DC 20 Perform check. The bard can’t take 10 on this check. Success indicates that the bard can redirect the portal destination to the mouth of any other active portal or breach he has personally traveled through in the past 30 days. Redirection automatically fails if the portal chosen as the temporary endpoint is no longer active. Only creatures and objects are affected by redirection, not traits (which leak through planar breaches). Creatures that enter the portal from the bard’s side of the portal, or creatures that would otherwise arrive at the bard’s location through the portal, instead arrive at the endpoint of another portal chosen by the bard this round. The portal to which the bard redirects travelers continues to connect to its original destination; if a redirected creature attempts to go back through the bard-influenced portal, it doesn’t return to the bard’s location, but instead to that portal’s natural endpoint. The bard may keep up the dissonance for 10 consecutive rounds (this counts as one of the bard’s bardic music uses per day). This benefit replaces the suggestion bardic music ability gained by a standard bard at 6th level.
This effect will be combined with the Cataclysm of flesh cataclysm mage ability, the rope trick spell, the hoardstealer’s deep pockets ability, the scramble portal spell, the shadow well spell, the shadow cache spell, and the precipitate breach spell. Hae will be able to stow himself in a deep pocket, and walk out anywhere else, or to use one of the other portal abilities to land himself back into his own deep pocket. On enemies, they can be sent to other planes using scramble portal. And they may be inclined to follow Hae, in which case they have to contend with his use of portal well. Further, if enemies do wind up in Hae’s deep pockets through these portal shenanigans, Hae will be able to use transdimensional spell to target them with acid rain or shadow evocations of fireball or lightning bolt.

Considering the plane hopping nature of Hae’s abilities, it should be reasonable for them to get access to planar touchstone. That feat allows one to key to the catalogues of enlightenment, which grant domain abilities. Keying to the kobold domain grants search and disable device to the skill list.

Melodic casting allows you to use your portal redirections while casting portal based spells.

Levels 7-12
Here is where Hae gets really weird. Hae learns cataclysm of flesh and ups his bard spell casting. Cataclysm of flesh does this
Cataclysm of Flesh (Sp): At 3rd level, you complete your study of the daelkyr-Dhakaani conflict, gaining the ability to tear a hole in the fabric of the planes and let the madness of Xoriat corrupt all it touches. This ability has a range of 25 feet + 5 feet per class level, and a duration of 1 round per class level. All creatures within a 20-foot radius of the affect's center must succeed on a Reflex save (DC 14 + your Int modifier) or be touched by the lemon rains and mindless star-worms of the Realm of Madness, forced to endure as their own flesh melts away and rains upward to patter on the ceiling as they deliquesce. An affected creature cannot hold or use any item (including clothing, armor, magic items, and so on). It can ooze forward with gelatinous pseudopods at a speed of 10 feet. If it normally has movement modes other than land speed, those modes are reduced by 30 feet (with a speed of 0 or less meaning that the creature has lost that movement mode until it regains its normal form).

That looks to me like a planar breach. So use your bardic music ability to transport the baddies to your deep pocket.

Speaking of deep pockets, at level 12, you finally get the ability. Rather than take all 10 levels of hoardstealer to obtain maximum room in your deep pockets, widen supernatural ability doubles the area of effect, so you only need 5 levels to get 10 levels worth of deep pocket space.

Note: if you have to take the spellscale option, the kobold domain makes sense. Further, the hide from dragons ability makes you unable to detect yourself. I’m not sure what that means, but it does seem like a fun thing to play with.

Level 13: sweet spot
Let the sublime chord levels begin! With this level you get the rest of your portal redirecting tools, including the ability to make a breach that doesn’t cause deliquescence. From here on, you are finishing up two more levels of hoardstealer and then moving on to ultimate magus.

The rest of the levels, From here we use ultimate magus to advance both hoardstealer and sublime chord casting. You’ll be able to persist spells all day at 20th level, and at 15th level...you get rope trick. Read rope trick again...that spell pairs badly with shadow cache, deep pockets, etc. If you need to rip a hole into the astral, you have all of the tools that you need to do so. Yes, this was possible at level 9, but that means that your DM will be nixxing rope trick shenanigans super early. It’s better to throw that into your arsenal later for at least one big surprise astral voyage of a BBEG. Further, ultimate magus allows you to blow spells from your terrible hoardstealer class list to augment your sublime or bardic casting.

Level
Class
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Skills
Feats
Class abilities

1
planar bard
0
0
2
2
36: Appraise 4,
Disable Device 1cc
Escape Artist 4
Hide 4,
knowledge (arcana) 4,
knowledge (history) 4,
knowledge (the planes) 4
listen 4,
Move silently 2
Open lock 2cc,
perform 4,
Profession (astrology) 4
spellcraft 4
Transdimensional Spell (Complete Divine, p. 85) [Metamagic]
Bardic music, bardic knowledge,
countersong, fascinate,
inspire courage +1

2
planar bard
0
0
3
3
9: Appraise 5,
disable device 1,
Escape Artist 4,
Hide 5,
knowledge (arcana) 5,
knowledge (history) 5,
knowledge (the planes) 5,
listen 5,
Move silently 3,
Open lock 2,
perform 5,
Profession (astrology) 4
spellcraft 5

3
planar bard
1
1
3
3
9: Appraise 6,
Disable Device 2cc,
Escape artist 4,
Hide 6,
Knowledge (arcana) 5
Knowledge (history) 6
Knowledge (the planes) 6
Listen 5,
Move silently 4
Open Lock 2,
Perform 6
Profession (astrology) 4
Spellcraft 6
Melodic Casting (Complete Mage, p. 44) [General]
planar inspiration

4
planar bard
1
1
4
4
9: Appraise 7,
Disable Device 2cc,
Escape artist 4,
Hide 6,
Knowledge (arcana) 5
Knowledge (history) 7
Knowledge (the planes) 7
Listen 6,
Move silently 6
Open Lock 3,
Perform 7
Profession (astrology) 4
Spellcraft 6

5
planar bard
2
1
4
4
9: Appraise 8,
Disable Device 2cc,
Escape artist 4,
Hide 8,
Knowledge (arcana) 5
Knowledge (history) 8
Knowledge (the planes) 8
Listen 8,
Move silently 8
Open Lock 3,
Perform 7
Profession (astrology) 4
Spellcraft 6

6
planar bard
2
2
5
5
9: Appraise 8,
Disable Device 3cc,
Escape artist 4,
Hide 8,
Knowledge (arcana) 5
Knowledge (history) 8
Knowledge (the planes) 8
Listen 8,
Move silently 8
Open Lock 3,
Perform 7
Profession (astrology) 4
Search 8
Spellcraft 6
catalogues of enlightenment: kobold domain
portal dissonance

7
cataclysm mage
2
2
5
7
5: Appraise 8,
Disable Device 4cc,
Escape artist 4,
Hide 8,
Knowledge (arcana) 5
Knowledge (history) 8
Knowledge (the planes) 8
Listen 8,
Move silently 8
Open Lock 4,
Perform 8
Profession (astrology) 4
Search 8
Spellcraft 6

Dhakaani secret, personal prophecy

8
cataclysm mage
3
2
5
8
5: Appraise 8,
Disable Device 4cc,
Escape artist 4,
Hide 8,
Knowledge (arcana) 8
Knowledge (history) 8
Knowledge (the planes) 8
Listen 8,
Move silently 8
Open Lock 4,
Perform 9
Profession (astrology) 6
Search 8
Spellcraft 6

xoriat secret

9
cataclysm mage
3
3
6
8
5: Appraise 8,
Disable Device 4cc,
Escape artist 4,
Hide 8,
Knowledge (arcana) 12
Knowledge (history) 8
Knowledge (the planes) 8
Listen 8,
Move silently 8
Open Lock 4,
Perform 8.5
Profession (astrology) 6
Search 8
Spellcraft 6
extra music
cataclysm of the flesh

10
hoardstealer
3
3
8
8
9: Appraise 8,
Disable Device 4cc,
Escape artist 4,
Hide 8,
Knowledge (arcana) 13
Knowledge (history) 8
Knowledge (the planes) 8
Listen 10,
Move silently 8
Open Lock 4,
Perform 10
Profession (astrology) 6
Search 8
Spellcraft 6

Darkvision +30 ft., trapfinding

11
hoardstealer
4
3
9
8
9: Appraise 8,
Disable Device 4cc,
Escape artist 4,
Hide 8,
Knowledge (arcana) 13
Knowledge (history) 8
Knowledge (the planes) 8
Listen 13,
Move silently 8
Open Lock 4,
Perform 11.5
Profession (astrology) 6
Search 8
Spellcraft 6

Hide from dragons 1/day

12
hoardstealer
5
4
9
9
9: Appraise 8,
Disable Device 4cc,
Escape artist 4,
Hide 8,
Knowledge (arcana) 13
Knowledge (history) 8
Knowledge (the planes) 8
Listen 13,
Move silently 8
Open Lock 4,
Perform 15
Profession (astrology) 6
Search 8
Spellcraft 6
UMD 2
Widen Supernatural Ability (Tome of Magic, p. 75) [General]
Trap sense +2, deep pockets

13
sublime chord
5
4
9
11
7: Appraise 8,
Concentrate 4
Disable Device 4cc,
Escape artist 4,
Hide 8,
Knowledge (arcana) 13
Knowledge (history) 8
Knowledge (the planes) 8
Listen 13,
Move silently 8
Open Lock 4,
Perform 16,
Profession (astrology) 6
Search 8
Spellcraft 6
UMD 2

Bardic lore, bardic music

14
hoardstealer 4
6
4
10
11
9: Appraise 8,
Concentrate 4
Disable Device 4cc,
Escape artist 4,
Hide 8,
Knowledge (arcana) 13
Knowledge (history) 8
Knowledge (the planes) 8
Listen 13,
Move silently 8
Open Lock 4,
Perform 16,
Profession (astrology) 6
Search 8
Spellcraft 8
UMD 7

Treasure dowsing 1/day

15
hoardstealer 5
6
4
10
11
9: Appraise 8,
Concentrate 4
Disable Device 4cc,
Escape artist 4,
Hide 8,
Knowledge (arcana) 13
Knowledge (history) 8
Knowledge (the planes) 8
Listen 13,
Move silently 8
Open Lock 4,
Perform 18,
Profession (astrology) 6
Search 8
Spellcraft 8
UMD 14
extra spell: rope trick
Darkvision +60 ft.

16
ultimate magus
6
4
10
13
5: Appraise 8,
Concentrate 7
Disable Device 4cc,
Escape artist 4,
Hide 8,
Knowledge (arcana) 13
Knowledge (history) 8
Knowledge (the planes) 8
Listen 13,
Move silently 8
Open Lock 4,
Perform 19,
Profession (astrology) 6
Search 8
Spellcraft 8
UMD 14

Arcane spell power +1

17
ultimate magus
7
4
10
14
5: Appraise 8,
Concentrate 11
Disable Device 4cc,
Escape artist 4,
Hide 8,
Knowledge (arcana) 13
Knowledge (history) 8
Knowledge (the planes) 8
Listen 13,
Move silently 8
Open Lock 4,
Perform 20,
Profession (astrology) 6
Search 8
Spellcraft 8
UMD 14

Expanded spell knowledge (1st level or lower)

18
ultimate magus
7
5
11
15
5: Appraise 8,
Concentrate 14
Disable Device 4cc,
Escape artist 4,
Hide 8,
Knowledge (arcana) 13
Knowledge (history) 8
Knowledge (the planes) 8
Listen 13,
Move silently 8
Open Lock 4,
Perform 21,
Profession (astrology) 6
Search 8
Spellcraft 8
UMD 14
extend spell
Augmented casting

19
ultimate magus
8
5
11
16
5: Appraise 8,
Concentrate 17
Disable Device 4cc,
Escape artist 4,
Hide 8,
Knowledge (arcana) 13
Knowledge (history) 8
Knowledge (the planes) 8
Listen 13,
Move silently 8
Open Lock 4,
Perform 22,
Profession (astrology) 6
Search 8
Spellcraft 8
UMD 14

Arcane spell power +2, expanded spell knowledge (2nd level or lower)

20
ultimate magus
8
5
11
16
5: Appraise 8,
Concentrate 20
Disable Device 4cc,
Escape artist 4,
Hide 8,
Knowledge (arcana) 13
Knowledge (history) 8
Knowledge (the planes) 8
Listen 13,
Move silently 8
Open Lock 4,
Perform 23,
Profession (astrology) 6
Search 8
Spellcraft 8
UMD 14
persistent spell
Bonus feat

Bard
Spells per Day

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th

1st
2
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
3
0
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
3
1
-
-
-
-
-

4th
3
2
0
-
-
-
-

5th
3
3
1
-
-
-
-

6th
3
3
2
-
-
-
-

7th
3
3
2
-
-
-
-

8th
3
3
2
0
-
-
-

9th
3
3
3
1
-
-
-

Bard Spells Known

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th

1st
4
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
5
2
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
6
3
-
-
-
-
-

4th
6
3
2
-
-
-
-

5th
6
4
3
-
-
-
-

6th
6
4
3
-
-
-
-

7th
6
4
3
-
-
-
-

8th
6
4
4
2
-
-
-

9th
6
4
4
3
-
-
-

0: Detect magic, Mage Hand, Detect Crossroads (magic of faerun p.88), Minor Disguise (Spell Compendium, p. 142), prestidigitation, mending
1:Inspirational Boost (Spell Compendium, p. 124), Guided Path (Complete Mage p.106), Undersong (Spell Compendium, p. 227), Harmony (player’s guide to faerun)
2:Portal Well (Champions of valor p.56), misdirection, insight of good fortune (PHB2 p.116), soundburst
3: Shadow Cache (Spell Compendium, p. 183), Listening Coin (Spell Compendium, p. 133), G'Elsewhere Chant (Spell Compendium, p. 100)

Portal Well (Champions of Valor p.56) Transmutation Level: Bard 2, Components: V, S, M, Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Active portal touched Duration: 1 round/level (D) When you step into a portal affected by this spell, you can wait for a short time within an extradimensional space between the portal's entrance and exit. This spell only works on a portal you are able to activate; for example, if you are an elf and the target portal doesn't work for elves, you can't use this spell on the portal. The extradimensional space created by this spell is similar to that created by a rope trick spell but can only hold you and your gear (up to your maximum heavy load). When the spell ends, you exit the portal at either your point of entry or the portal's destination. While within this extradimensional space, you can see the origin and destination locations, though the images are blurry (much like viewing the Material Plane from the Ethereal Plane). Dispel magic or gate seal traps you within the extradimensional space for as long as the portal is negated or sealed (as would surrounding both ends with a dead magic area). Mordenkainen's disjunction or some other effect that destroys a portal outright forcibly ejects you from one random end of the portal and deals 5d6 points of damage to you. This spell originated in Shaundakul's church and is hard to find elsewhere. Arcane Material Component: A silver wire tied in a knot.

Shadow Cache (Spell Compendium, p. 183) Illusion (Shadow) Level: Bard 3Components: V, S, Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Area: 1-ft.-diameter circle Duration: 1 minute/level (D) SWith a flourish, you open an invisible portal. Plunging your arm inside, you see your hand vanish as though it were invisible. You can temporarily stash small items on the Plane of Shadow (DMG 152) or permanently dispose of them there. This spell opens a small portal to the Plane of Shadow that is invisible on the Material Plane and appears as a small disk on the Plane of Shadow. You can reach into the Plane of Shadow through the portal created by shadow cache, but only small, nonliving objects can pass entirely through the hole. The cache can hold up to 30 cubic feet of material, or 250 pounds. You can recover objects placed in the portal throughout the duration of the spell, or by casting another hadow cache later. A shadow cache remains stationary at the point where you create it. Items placed in a shadow cache can possibly be picked up by natives of the Plane of Shadow, and in any event are slowly moved by the morphic trait of the plane. For every 24 hours that passes, there is a 10% chance each day that objects placed on the Plane of Shadow with shadow cache are gone (either moved or taken). The spell cannot be cast on the Plane of Shadow itself, but only on planes coexistent with the Plane of Shadow.

Hoardstealer
Spells per Day/Spells Known

Level
1st
2nd
3rd
4th

10th
0
-
-
-

11th
1
-
-
-

12th
1
0
-
-

13th
1
0
-
-

14th
1
1
-
-

15th
1
1
0
-

16th
1
1
1
-

17th
2
1
1
0

18th
2
1
1
1

19th
2
2
1
1

20th
2
2
2
1

1:expeditious retreat, identify,
2:Cat's Grace, Invisibility
3:Clairaudience, Shrink item
4:freedom of movement, dimension door

Sublime Chord
Spells per Day

Level
4th
5th
6th

13th
2
1
-

14th
-
-
-

15th
-
-
-

16th
-
-
-

17th
2
2
-

18th
3
2
1

19th
-
-
-

20th
3
3
2

Sublime Chord
Spells known

Level
4th
5th
6th

13th
3
1
-

14th
-
-
-

15th
-
-
-

16th
-
-
-

17th
4
2
-

18th
4
2
1

19th
-
-
-

20th
4
3
2

4:Shadow Well (Spell Compendium, p. 186), Scramble Portal (Spell Compendium, p. 181), shadow conjuration
5: Precipitate Breach (Planar Handbook p.103),]Acid Rain (Heroes of Battle), shadow evocation
6: Seal Portal (Planar Handbook p.104), Eye of Stone (Races of Stone)

Shadow Well (Spell Compendium, p. 186) Illusion (Shadow) Level: Sorcerer 4, Wizard 4, Components: V, S, Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: One creature Duration: 1 round/level Saving Throw: Will negates; see text Spell Resistance: Yes You spit out the words of the spell, and the shadow of your foe darkens, becoming a solid black pit. Your opponent pinwheels its arms as it topples backward into the darkness. You cause the target's shadow to become a temporary gateway to a pocket realm within the Plane of Shadow. The target must make a Will save or be pulled into the gateway. Inside the pocket realm, the creature sees a deserted, gloomy duplicate of the real world, while shadowy phantasms stalk and taunt it without causing actual harm. Each round, the creature can attempt another Will save to return from the shadow well. Otherwise, the subject returns to the real world when the spell's duration expires. Being trapped in a shadow well can be terrifying; upon returning to the real world, the subject must succeed on another Will save or be frightened for 1d4 rounds. Upon leaving the pocket realm, the subject reappears in the spot it had been in when the shadow well spell was cast. If this spot is filled with a solid object, the subject appears in the nearest adjacent empty space. Spells and abilities that move a creature within a plane, such as teleport and dimension door, do not help a creature escape a shadow well spell, although a plane shift spell allows it to flee to another plane as normal. The target might still become frightened upon leaving.

Scramble Portal (Spell Compendium, p. 181) Transmutation [Chaotic] Level: Sorcerer 4, Wizard 4, Components: V, S, M, Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: One interplanar gate or portal Duration: 1 round/level Saving Throw: None (for portal) Spell Resistance: No You raise your hand and send a roiling ball of crackling, multicolored energy at the portal, knowing its chaotic power will give portal users a surprise. You randomize the destination of one interplanar gate or portal for the duration of the spell. Anyone who passes through the portal from either side is sent to a random plane instead of the portal's normal destination. Material Component: A cracked mirror.

Precipitate Breach (Planar Handbook p.103) Conjuration (Teleportation) Level: Sorcerer 5, Wizard 5, Components: V, M, Casting Time: 10 minutes Range: 0 ft. Effect: Planar breach; see text Duration: See text Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes You meddle with the boundaries between planes, creating instability and, finally, a minor planar breach. See Planar Breaching, page 151, for details concerning this phenomenon. You have no control over the breach created. However, as opposed to a truly random breach (see page 153), when this spell is first cast in any area that doesn't already contain a breach, a minor breach forms automatically. The breach has the size (10d10-foot radius) and onset time following casting (1d4 rounds) described for a random breach. Roll on Table 7-1: Random Planar Breaching, page 152, to determine the trait that leaks through from the breaching plane. The effect is as for a minor breach. The breach has a standard duration for a minor breach (1d6 days minus 12 hours, minimum 12 hours), after which time it fades away. If you cast precipitate breach into an area that currently hosts a minor breach, you precipitate a severe breach. Reroll the size, the onset time, and the trait that leaks through from the breaching plane (which could mean that the identity of the breaching plane changes). The effect is as for a severe breach. The breach has a standard duration for a severe breach (1d6 days minus 48 hours, minimum 1 hour), after which time it fades away. This spell has no effect if cast into an area currently hosting a severe or complete breach. Material Component: Jade dust worth 250 gp sprinkled in the center of the effect.

Races
Star Elf (Unnapproachable East p.9)
Spellscale (Races of the Dragon p.27)

Classes
Ultimate Magus (Complete Mage p. 77)
Sublime Chord (Complete Arcane p. 60)
Hoardstealer (Draconomicon p. 130)
Cataclysm Mage (Explorer's Handbook p. 58)
Bard (Core)
Planar substitution levels (Planar Handbook p. 29)

Feats
Transdimensional Spell (Complete Divine, p. 85)
Melodic Casting (Complete Mage, p. 44)
Planar Touchstone (Planar Handbook p.41) Catalogues of enlightenment (Planar Handbook p.166) Kobold Domain (Web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a))
Extra Music (Complete Adventurer, p. 109)
Widen Supernatural Ability (Tome of Magic, p. 75)
Extra Spell (Complete Arcane, p. 79)
Persistent Spell (Complete Arcane, p. 81)

Spells
Detect Crossroads (magic of faerun p.88)
Minor Disguise (Spell Compendium, p. 142)
Portal Well (Champions of Valor p.56)
Shadow Cache (Spell Compendium, p. 183)
Inspirational Boost (Spell Compendium, p. 124)
Guided Path (Complete Mage p.106)
Undersong (Spell Compendium, p. 227)
insight of good fortune (PHB2 p.116)
Listening Coin (Spell Compendium, p. 133)
G'Elsewhere Chant (Spell Compendium, p. 100)
Scramble Portal (Spell Compendium, p. 181)
Shadow Well (Spell Compendium, p. 186)
Precipitate Breach (Planar Handbook p.103)
Seal Portal (Planar Handbook p.104)
Acid Rain (Heroes of Battle)
Eye of Stone (Races of Stone)

Heliomance

2018-07-04, 06:57 AM

Entry number 2

Splash Gordon

https://cdn-images.9cloud.us/157/piccit_artificer_by_thraen_1815601098.jpg

Race: Deepwyrm Half-Drow
Build Stub: Drow Feat Rogue 1/Truenamer 4/Hoardstealer 3/Truenamer +7/Hoardstealer +5
Multiclass Penalty: No.
Languages: Common, Elven, Draconic, Undercommon, Drow Sign Language, Terran
Alignment: NE
Ability Scores:

Ability
Score
Racial
(Points)
Increases

Strength
8

(0)

Dexterity
14

(6)

Constitution
12

(4)

Intelligence
18

(16)
4th/8th/12th/16th/20th

Wisdom
8

(0)

Charisma
14

(6)

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Drow Feat Rogue 1
+0
+0
+2
+0
Appraise 4, Balance 4, Bluff 4, Craft:Poison 4, DisDev 4, Escape Artist 4, Hide 4, MoveSilent 4, OpenLock 4, Search 4, Tumble 4, UMD 4
Hidden Talent, Quick Draw
Poison Use ACF (Drow of the Underdark), Martial Rogue ACF (UA)

2nd
Truenamer 1
+0
+0
+2
+2
Appraise 4, Balance 4, Bluff 4, Craft:Poison 5(+1), DisDev 4, Escape Artist 4, Hide 4, MoveSilent 4, OpenLock 4, Search 5(+2cc), Truespeak 5(+5), Tumble 4, UMD 4

Know Personal Truename

3rd
Truenamer 2
+1
+0
+2
+3
Appraise 5(+2cc), Balance 4, Bluff 4, Craft:Poison 5, DisDev 4, Escape Artist 4, Hide 6(+2), MoveSilent 6(+2), OpenLock 4, Search 6(+2cc), Truespeak 5, Tumble 4, UMD 4
Guerrilla Warrior
Knowledge Focus (Arcana)

4th
Truenamer 3
+2
+1
+3
+3
Appraise 7(+4cc), Balance 4, Bluff 4, Craft:Poison 5, DisDev 4, Escape Artist 4, Hide 7(+1), MoveSilent 7(+1), OpenLock 4, Search 7(+2cc), Truespeak 5, Tumble 4, UMD 4

5th
Truenamer 4
+3
+1
+3
+4
Appraise 8(+2cc), Balance 4, Bluff 4, Craft:Poison 5, DisDev 4, Escape Artist 4, Hide 8(+1), MoveSilent 8(+1), OpenLock 4, Search 8(+2cc), Truespeak 7(+2), Tumble 4, UMD 4

6th
Hoardstealer 1
+3
+1
+5
+4
Appraise 8, Balance 5(+1), Bluff 5(+1), Craft:Poison 5, DisDev 9(+5), Escape Artist 4, Hide 9(+1), MoveSilent 9(+1), OpenLock 4, Search 9(+1), Truespeak 7, Tumble 4, UMD 4
Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Gnome Calculus
Darkvision 30', Trapfinding

7th
Hoardstealer 2
+4
+1
+6
+4
Appraise 8, Balance 5, Bluff 5, Craft:Poison 5, DisDev 10(+1), Escape Artist 4, Hide 10(+1), MoveSilent 10(+1), OpenLock 4, Search 10(+1), Truespeak 7, Tumble 4, UMD 10(+6)

Hide from Dragons 1/day

8th
Hoardstealer 3
+5
+2
+6
+5
Appraise 8, Balance 5, Bluff 5, Craft:Alchemy 2(+4cc), Craft:Poison 5, DisDev 11(+1), Escape Artist 4, Hide 11(+1), MoveSilent 11(+1), OpenLock 4, Search 11(+1), Truespeak 7, Tumble 5(+2cc), UMD 11(+1)

Trap Sense +2, Deep Pockets

9th
Truenamer 5
+5
+2
+6
+5
Appraise 8, Balance 5, Bluff 5, Craft:Alchemy 3(+1), Craft:Poison 5, DisDev 11, Escape Artist 4, Hide 11, Know:Arcana 2(+2), MoveSilent 11, OpenLock 4, Search 11, Truespeak 12(+5), Tumble 5, UMD 12(+1)
Extend Supernatural Ability

10th
Truenamer 6
+6
+3
+7
+6
Appraise 8, Balance 5, Bluff 5, Craft:Alchemy 6(+3), Craft:Poison 7(+2), DisDev 11, Escape Artist 4, Hide 11, Know:Arcana 4(+2), MoveSilent 11, OpenLock 4, Search 11, Truespeak 13(+1), Tumble 5, UMD 13(+1)
Truename Research

11th
Truenamer 7
+7
+3
+7
+6
Appraise 8, Balance 5, Bluff 5, Craft:Alchemy 9(+3), Craft:Poison 9(+2), DisDev 11, Escape Artist 4, Hide 11, Know:Arcana 6(+2), MoveSilent 11, OpenLock 4, Search 11, Truespeak 14(+1), Tumble 5, UMD 14(+1)

Knowledge Focus (Arcana x2)

12th
Truenamer 8
+8
+3
+7
+7
Appraise 8, Balance 5, Bluff 5, Craft:Alchemy 12(+3), Craft:Poison 11(+2), DisDev 11, Escape Artist 4, Hide 11, Know:Arcana 8(+2), MoveSilent 11, OpenLock 4, Search 11, Truespeak 15(+1), Tumble 5, UMD 15(+1)
Darkstalker, Recitation of the Sanguine State
Bonus Recitation Feat

13th
Truenamer 9
+8
+4
+8
+7
Appraise 8, Balance 5, Bluff 5, Craft:Alchemy 14(+2), Craft:Poison 14(+3), DisDev 11, Escape Artist 4, Hide 11, Know:Arcana 10(+2), MoveSilent 11, OpenLock 4, Search 11, Truespeak 16(+1), Tumble 5, UMD 16(+1)

See the Named 1/day

14th
Truenamer 10
+9
+4
+8
+8
Appraise 8, Balance 5, Bluff 5, Craft:Alchemy 17(+3), Craft:Poison 17(+3), DisDev 11, Escape Artist 4, Hide 11, Know:Arcana 12(+2), MoveSilent 11, OpenLock 4, Search 11, Truespeak 17(+1), Tumble 5, UMD 16

Knowledge Focus (Arcana x3)

15th
Truenamer 11
+10
+4
+8
+9
Appraise 8, Balance 5, Bluff 5, Craft:Alchemy 18(+1), Craft:Poison 18(+1), DisDev 11, Escape Artist 4, Hide 12(+1), Know:Arcana 14(+2), MoveSilent 12(+1), OpenLock 4, Search 11, Truespeak 18(+1), Tumble 5, UMD 18(+2)
Truename Training

16th
Hoardstealer 4
+11
+4
+9
+9
Appraise 8, Balance 5, Bluff 5, Craft:Alchemy 18, Craft:Poison 18, DisDev 15(+4), Escape Artist 4, Hide 13(+1), Know:Arcana 14, MoveSilent 13(+1), OpenLock 4, Search 15(+4), Truespeak 19(+1), Tumble 5, UMD 19(+1)

Treasure Dowsing 1/day

17th
Hoardstealer 5
+11
+4
+9
+9
Appraise 8, Balance 5, Bluff 5, Craft:Alchemy 18, Craft:Poison 18, DisDev 19(+4), Escape Artist 4, Hide 14(+1), Know:Arcana 14, MoveSilent 14(+1), OpenLock 4, Search 19(+4), Truespeak 20(+1), Tumble 5, UMD 20(+1)

Darkvision 60'

18th
Hoardstealer 6
+12
+5
+10
+10
Appraise 8, Balance 5, Bluff 5, Craft:Alchemy 18, Craft:Poison 18, DisDev 21(+2), Escape Artist 4, Hide 17(+3), Know:Arcana 14, MoveSilent 17(+3), OpenLock 4, Search 21(+2), Truespeak 21(+1), Tumble 5, UMD 21(+1)
Craft Skull Talisman
Trap Sense +4, Hide From Dragons 2/day

19th
Hoardstealer 7
+13
+5
+10
+10
Appraise 8, Balance 5, Bluff 5, Craft:Alchemy 18, Craft:Poison 18, DisDev 22(+1), Escape Artist 4, Hide 21(+4), Know:Arcana 14, MoveSilent 21(+4), OpenLock 4, Search 22(+1), Truespeak 22(+1), Tumble 5, UMD 22(+1)

Treasure Dowsing 2/day

20th
Hoardstealer 8
+14
+5
+11
+10,
Appraise 8, Balance 5, Bluff 5, Craft:Alchemy 18, Craft:Poison 18, DisDev 23(+1), Escape Artist 4, Hide 23(+2), Know:Arcana 16(+4cc), MoveSilent 23(+2), OpenLock 4, Search 23(+1), Truespeak 23(+1), Tumble 5, UMD 23(+1)

Skill Mastery (Craft:Alchemy, Craft:Poison, DisDev, Hide, Know:Arcana, MoveSilent, Search, Truespeak, UMD)

Utterances & Recitations

Level
Evolving Mind
Crafted Tool
Perfected Map
New Utterances
New Recitations

2nd
1
-
-
Universal Aptitude
-

3rd
2
-
-
Inertia Surge
-

4th
3
-
-
Hidden Truth
-

5th
4
1
-
Lesser Word of Nurturing, Fortify Armor
-

6th
4
1
-
-
-

7th
4
1
-
-
-

8th
4
1
-
-
-

9th
5
1
-
Silent Caster
-

10th
6
1
-
Seek the Sky
-

11th
7
2
-
Greater Speed of the Zephyr, Analyze Item
-

12th
8
2
1
Energy Negation, Fog From the Void
Recitation of the Sanguine State

13th
9
2
1
Vision Sharpened
-

14th
10
2
1
Spell Rebirth
-

15th
11
3
1
Word of Bolstering, Rebuild Item
-

Hoardstealer Spells per Day

Level
1st
2nd
3rd
4th

6th
1
-
-
-

7th
2
-
-
-

8th
2
1
-
-

9th
2
1
-
-

10th
2
1
-
-

11th
2
1
-
-

12th
2
1
-
-

13th
2
1
-
-

14th
2
1
-
-

15th
2
1
-
-

16th
2
2
-
-

17th
2
2
1
-

18th
2
2
2
-

19th
3
2
2
1

20th
3
2
2
2

Typical Spells Prepared
1st: expeditious retreat, Tenser's floating disk, unseen servant
2nd: invisibility, resist energy
3rd: dispel magic, shrink item
4th: dimension door, freedom of movement

Gordon starts out as a variation on a Flask Rogue, but instead of Sneak Attack he picks up Poison Use (via the Drow Rogue ACF). He sticks mostly to acid flasks (as funds allow), but for tougher encounters he can use his Hidden Talent (psionic minor creation) to get access to any plant-based poisons. This includes black lotus extract (DMG), luhix (BoVD), mordayn vapor (BoVD), mushroom powder (BoVD), redflower leaves (BoVD), and greensickness (Dungeonscape). Gordon wears a bandolier of empty flasks, uses psionic minor creation to fill all the flasks with a contact or inhaled poison, and then spends the rest of the battle hurling flasks at his enemies. He can also use psionic minor creation to create acid. In Dungeonscape (p. 140), there's a hazard called gray slime that creates acid whenever you walk under it or expose it to light. As per the DMG p. 76, "For purposes of spells and other special effects, all slimes, molds, and fungi are treated as plants." So dead gray slime = acid made from vegetable matter.

After that, things go considerably downhill from there... Orphaned at an early age, Gordon's efforts to learn about his ancestry lead him into researching his deepwyrm heritage, and his studies of the draconic language detour into researching draconic truenames. After discovering his own truename, Gordon comes to a horrifying realization... he's taken levels of Truenamer! While this does make him slightly better at crafting things (apparently "marketable class skills" is not part of the true essence of being a "Truenamer"), he works on his stealth skills, hiring himself out as a footpad, snitch, guttersnipe, bandit, or whatever else will pay the bills.

Hoardstealer! Yes, well, that sounds much better than "Truenamer!" Turns out dragons tend to have low touch ACs and no particular immunity to "greensickness". Gordon upgrades his... uh, throwing arm to a gnome calculus, which increases his effective range out to 250'. He also picks up Trapfinding, which gives him something else to do when he's not throwing flasks at his enemies. He also gets some arcane spells, including unseen servant. In certain battles, he can use his unseen servant to double his flask attacks by directing it to fly above his opponents and drop flasks (or bags full of flasks) on his enemies from above. Hide from Dragons 1/day is a very situational SLA, but if you're ever in a situation that calls for it, then it's an extremely important spell! At 8th level, Gorden gets Deep Pockets, which this entire build is built around.

Gordon's Glass Cannon: So... any container? Such as... a flask of acid? That can now hold 300 pounds of acid. When the flask shatters, the Deep Pockets effect ends, and "everything in the container spills onto the floor". Based on the equipment table in the PHB, a single flask of acid weighs one pound and does 1d6 acid damage. Put 300 flasks worth of acid into a single flask, and now that flask does 300d6 acid damage on a ranged touch attack (1,050 average damage). Even if Gordon misses, then it lands in an adjacent square and does 300 splash damage to everything within 5'. And that's just acid... if Gordon wanted to fill his flask with poison, assuming a single dose is about an ounce of liquid, 300 x 16 = 4,800 doses of black lotus extract (3d6 Con damage), or greensickness (2d6 Str + 1d4 Con). It's a one-trick pony, but... still a pretty big pony.

After he's got Deep Pockets, Gordon heads back into Truenamer, because he has a few problems he needs to solve, and Truenamer might actually be able to help. Most notably, Hoardstealer doesn't have Craft as a class skill, and Truenamer does, so he can pile on more crafting ranks and start making more of his own poisons and alchemical items. Along the way, he picks up Extend Supernatural Ability so his Deep Pockets flask lasts six hours instead of three. This should last him *most* of an adventuring day. At 10th level, he picks up the Seek the Sky utterance, which allows him to fly for 5 rounds at a time, so he can now join his unseen servant as he rains down flasks of death from above. When he's not hurling flasks, then he's sneaking off and hiding because he's a Truenamer and he should know better than to expose himself to combat.

Gordon continues to build up his Craft ranks and adds some utility utterances, mostly buffing some buffing and a little battlefield control. Outside of his Glass Cannon trick, his main job is to craft alchemical items and poisons, do a little trapfinding, and when all else fails do a whole lot of sneaking/hiding. Greater Speed of the Zephyr gives him haste, Analyze Item gives him identify, and Energy Negation gives him and his allies the ability to ignore some splash damage. Fog of the Void can give him either fog cloud or solid fog, while Recitation of the Sanguine State allows him to ignore any mishaps with poison. Vision sharpened lets him see invisible, and Spell Rebirth gives him at-will dispel magic.

*** SWEET SPOT *** Finally, at 15th level, Gordon has unlocked a 3rd level utterance in the Lexicon of the Crafted Tool: Rebuild Item. This allows him to rebuild his Deep Pockets flask over and over again. Gordon's Glass Cannon can now be RELOADED multiple times per day.

...and here is where the terribad suckitude of being a truenamer comes crashing down on you, as the DC to rebuild your flask is 15 + (2 x CL). Since the text of Deep Pockets says your container is the "equivalent of a bag of holding", that gives us a by-the-book CL of 9. 15 + 18 = 33 is not an insurmountable DC at your current level. In fact, your skill ranks + Int = 23 without tools/items. However, the DM may point out that, by the book, the CL of a Supernatural Ability is equal to your HD. Your best argument against this is to point out that you are a Truenamer, and he/she should take pity on you and let you have this shining moment of awesome.

You're likely stuck with the original duration for Deep Pockets and also must deal with the cosmic stupidity of the Law of Resistance, but your One Trick Pony is now a... One Trick Pony that you can use several times a day! Rebuild item can also be used on other things... notably, all those acid flasks that he keeps breaking (non-magical items can be rebuilt with a flat DC 25 Truespeak check). Hopefully, your DM will let you reconstitute the entire flask, complete with acid, but if your DM is a little leery of this, make sure you play the "I AM A PATHETIC TRUENAMER, PLEASE LET ME HAVE THIS!" card. For everything else Gordon needs crafting, he can buy Skull Talismans (Frostburn) of any spell he needs (such as unseen crafter, water to acid, major creation, etc.), break the skull, then use Rebuild Item to recreate the skull, ready to use again.

In other news, at 15th level Gordon also picks up Word of Bolstering, which is a nice fix for any ability drain/damage, and Truename Training to keep truespeak as a class skill.

For his last five levels, Gordon returns to Hoardstealer, because not only does each new level increase his Glass Cannon by 100d6 (and increase the duration by one more hour), but there are a few other perks he'd like to pick up as well. At 16th, he picks up Treasure Dowser 1/day. This helps him track down rare or hard-to-find ingredients for poisons and alchemical items. Arsenic and many other heavy metals are highly toxic. But Treasure Dowser doesn't only find metals, it can also find "minerals". How much easier does making alchemical fire become if you can easily track down veins of magnesium and sulfur? Or create acids directly from chemical salts. See Minor Creation and You, a Small Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?444927-Minor-Creation-and-You-a-Small-Guide) for more information on alchemical substances that might count as "minerals".

At 17th level, Gordon's darkvision increases to 60', which is nice because half-drow lost darkvision in the DotU update. However, he also gets something more interesting... 3rd level spells, and that means he now has access to shrink item]/I]. This is a monumental upgrade for his Glass Cannon, because he can now fit 4,000 times more acid flasks into his Deep Pocket flask. At Hoardstealer 5, that's a 500-pound capacity that can now dish out 2,000,000d6 damage on a ranged touch attack, or 2,000,000 splash damage on a miss.

At 18th level, Gordon gets Trap Sense +4, Hide from Dragons 2/day, and Craft Skull Talisman so he can create his own Skull Talismans. 19th level adds Treasure Dowsing 2/day, which is nice because he's going to need a lot of chemical salts to craft 2,800,000 flasks of acid. And at 20th level, Gordon gets Skill Mastery, which is a pretty nice perk for a capstone. He can now "Take 10" on Truespeak checks, along with nearly all the other skills he invested ranks in. The maximum capacity of his Glass Cannon tops out at 3,200,000d6 flasks of acid damage, and it lasts 16 hours, so pretty much an entire adventuring day.

How can he possibly make that many miniature flasks, you ask? Make a Skull Talisman of [I]shrink item. It takes one round to use the skull, and one round to rebuild it (CL 5, so Truespeak DC to rebuild is an easy 25). Gordon can shrink 300 flasks an hour. If he skips sleep, he can shrink 7,200 flasks a day. Add in a servant horde or an unseen crafter or two, and it might take a few months... but that's going to be a very interesting Glass Cannon.

Arms & Equipment Guide: Gnome Calculus
Drow of the Underdark: Drow Rogue ACF
Expanded Psionics Handbook: Hidden Talent, Psionic Minor Creation
Frostburn: Craft Skull Talisman
Heroes of Battle: Guerrilla Warrior
Lords of Madness: Darkstalker
Tome of Magic: Truenamer, Extend Supernatural Ability, Truename Training
Unearthed Arcana: Martial Rogue ACF

Heliomance

2018-07-04, 06:58 AM

Entry number 3

Buckethead, the Pretender
Race: Strongheart Halfling
Build Stub: Rogue 1 / Druid 6 / Hoardstealer 3 / Arcane Hierophant 2 / Hoardstealer +5 / Arcane Hierophant +3
Multiclass Penalty: No
Languages: Common, Halfling, Elf, Dwarf, Gnome, Draconic (at 1), Sylvan (at 1), Druidic (at 2)
Alignment: TN
Ability Scores (32pt-buy):

Ability
Base
Racial
Total

Str
10
-2
8

Dex
12
+2
14

Con
12
+0
12

Int
16
+0
16

Wis
16
+0
16

Cha
10
+0
10

All level-up points go to Wisdom.

(Note: This character is set firmly in Eberron. Eberron dragons are not alignment-locked by color.)

"...An unmarked Talenta tribesman will discover forgotten lore, which could herald the return of the false dragons..." ~ A Chamber-interpreted fragment of the Dragon Prophecy

Some halfling tribes in Talenta keep their children away from Zilargo. The Thaun clan raise them in the city for the tough life lessons. I grew up there, and my formal education, though brief, left me fascinated with dragons. Young but obviously smart, I was sent back to the tribes to be groomed for leadership. I was a courier for one of the tribe elders, taking messages between tribes before meetings. I helped solve village problems a bit on the side when I could, but I wazs never much of a fighter.

Travellers are rare in the plains, so when I found a nobly-dressed man wandering alone, I thought it best to bring him to the tribe for safe transport where he pleased. I was wrong. After the man learned our clan name, he transformed into a gold dragon and killed half of us in an instant. The few left who could tried to fight back to give women and young time to escape. I armed myself with an improvised bucket for a helm and led those I could into the mountains to the east. We fought off goblins and others to claim caves and lay low, expecting pursuit, but the dragon never followed.

Exploring the caves led to a dragonshard with a cryptic message that only I could read: "In Xen'drick, a small one can become as great as a dragon."

At the direction of the clan shaman, I left to follow this sign. On the way, I joined the Nightbringer cult (more for power to bring balance than to end the world) but didn't stay in the Gloaming long; I had a plan. I returned to Zilargo and started digging. Not too many dragons in Khorvaire, right? Wrong. The Chamber has strong influence, and it turns out the dragon that killed most of my tribe was a low-ranking member. I put together a small company and exacted my revenge... It was too easy. Recovering his hoard wasn't hard either, but fencing it all to prevent the Chamber from noticing? Impossible.

Having a price on your head for killing a dragon makes leaving a pirate port a great idea, so I jumped onto the first expedition ship to Xen'drick I could find. Let's see if the shard was right, eh?

...Was it worth it? Was reading a dragonshard in the heart of a ruin while a dragon slumbered behind me, none the wiser, smart? I don't really know any more. I think the price on my head is bigger now, but that's probably because of how much extra junk dragons cart around. They don't need it all, so I'll help myself.

Maybe one day, I'll share what I've learned. Pretending to be a dragon is fun and rewarding. Until then, the Chamber will keep getting poorer, and the tribes and I will get richer.

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Rogue 1
+0
+0
+2
+0
appraise 4, balance 4, disable device 4, escape artist 4, hide 4, know arcana 4, move silently 4, open lock 4, search 4, UMD 4, speak language (draconic) (2cc), speak language (sylvan) (2cc)
1: Education, Bonus: Darkstalker
ACF: Antiquarian (Lose Trapfinding), Sneak Attack +1d6

2nd
Druid 1
+0
+2
+2
+2
handle animal 1, know nature 4, move silently +1 (5, 2cc)
-
Animal Companion, Nature Sense, Wild Empathy

3rd
Druid 2
+1
+3
+2
+3
appraise +1 (2cc, 5), know arcana +1 (5, 2cc), know nature +1 (5), search +1 (2cc, 5)
Nightbringer Initiate
Woodland Stride

4th
Druid 3
+2
+3
+3
+3
appraise +1 (2cc, 6), know arcana +1 (6, 2cc), know nature +1 (6), search +1 (2cc, 6)
-
Trackless Step

5th
Druid 4
+3
+4
+3
+4
appraise +1 (7, 2cc), know arcana +1 (7, 2cc), know nature +1 (7), move silently +1 (6), search +1 (2cc, 7)
Strong Stomach
ACF: Iron Constitution (Lose Resist Nature's Lure)

6th
Halfling Druid Racial Sub. 5
+3
+4
+3
+4
hide +3 (7), know arcana +1 (8, 2cc), know nature +2 (9), move silently +2 (8)
Natural Bond
Undersized Wild Shape (Tiny, Small) 2/d

7th
Druid 6
+4
+5
+4
+5
appraise +1 (8, 2cc), know nature +1 (10), hide +1 (8), move silently +2 (10), search +1 (2cc, 8)
-
Undersized Wild Shape 3/d

8th
Hoardstealer 1
+4
+5
+6
+5
balance +1 (5), bluff 2, gather info 2, know nature +1 (11, 2cc), move silently +1 (11, 2cc)
-
Darkvision +30', Trapfinding

9th
Hoardstealer 2
+5
+5
+7
+5
bluff +2 (4), gather info +2 (4), know nature +1 (12, 2cc), move silently +1 (12, 2cc), UMD +1 (5)
Natural Spell
Hide from Dragons (Sp) 1/d

10th
Hoardstealer 3
+6
+6
+7
+6
bluff +2 (6), gather info +2 (6), know nature +1 (13, 2cc), move silently +1 (13, 2cc), UMD +1 (6)
-
Trap Sense +2, Deep Pockets (Su)

11th
Arcane Hierophant 1
+6
+6
+7
+8
know arcana +4 (12), know nature +1 (14), move silently +1 (14, 2cc)
-
Companion Familiar, Ignore Arcane Spell Failure, Undersized Wild Shape 4/d

12th
Arcane Hierophant 2
+7
+6
+7
+9
concentration 1, know arcana +3 (15), know nature +1 (15), move silently +1 (15, 2cc)
Dragon Wild Shape
Undersized Wild Shape (Medium)

13th
Hoardstealer 4
+8
+6
+8
+9
bluff +2 (8), escape artist +1 (5), gather info +1 (7), move silently +1 (16, 2cc), UMD +1 (7), skill trick: collector of stories
-
Treasure Dowsing (Sp) 1/d

14th
Hoardstealer 5
+8
+6
+8
+9
bluff +2 (10), gather info +2 (9), move silently +1 (17, 2cc), search +1 (9), UMD +2 (9)
-
Darkvision +60'

15th
Hoardstealer 6
+9
+7
+9
+10
bluff +2 (12), gather info +2 (11), move silently +1 (18, 2cc), search +1 (10), UMD +2 (11)
Trickery Devotion (Complete Champion)
Trap Sense +4, Hide from Dragons (Sp) 2/d

16th
Hoardstealer 7
+10
+7
+9
+10
bluff +2 (14), gather info +2 (13), move silently +1 (19, 2cc), search +1 (11), UMD +2 (13)
-
Treasure Dowsing (Sp) 2/d

17th
Hoardstealer 8
+11
+7
+10
+10
bluff +2 (16), gather info +2 (15), move silently +1 (20, 2cc), search +1 (12), UMD +2 (15)
Feats
Skill Mastery: bluff, hide, move silently, know arcana, know nature, search

18th
Arcane Hierophant 3
+12
+8
+11
+10
move silently +1 (21, 2cc), know arcana +1 (16), listen 2, spot 2
Knowledge Devotion (Arcana)
-

19th
Arcane Hierophant 4
+13
+8
+11
+11
move silently +1 (22, 2cc), know arcana +1 (17), listen +2 (4), spot +2 (4)
-
Channel Animal (Sp) 2/d, Undersized Wild Shape 5/d

20th
Arcane Hierophant 5
+13
+8
+11
+11
move silently +1 (23, 2cc), know arcana +3 (20), listen +1 (5), spot +1 (5)
-
Undersized Wild Shape (Diminutive)

Spells per Day/Spells Known

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
3
1+1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
4
2+1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

4th
4
2+1
1+1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

5th
5
3+1
2+1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

6th
5
3+1
2+1
1+1
-
-
-
-
-
-

7th
5
3+1
2+1
2+1
-
-
-
-
-
-

8th
5
3+1
2+1
2+1
-
-
-
-
-
-

9th
5
3+1
2+1
2+1
-
-
-
-
-
-

10th
5
3+1
2+1
2+1
-
-
-
-
-
-

11th
6
4+1
3+1
2+1
1+1
-
-
-
-
-

12th
6
4+1
3+1
3+1
2+1
-
-
-
-
-

13th
6
4+1
3+1
3+1
2+1
-
-
-
-
-

14th
6
4+1
3+1
3+1
2+1
-
-
-
-
-

15th
6
4+1
3+1
3+1
2+1
-
-
-
-
-

16th
6
4+2
3+1
3+1
2+1
-
-
-
-
-

17th
6
4+2
3+1
3+1
2+1
-
-
-
-
-

18th
6
4+2
4+1
3+1
2+1
1+1
-
-
-
-

19th
6
4+2
4+1
3+1
3+1
2+1
-
-
-
-

20th
6
5+2
4+1
4+1
3+1
2+1
1
-
-
-

Spells per Day/Spells Known

Level
1st
2nd
3rd
4th

8th
0+1
-
-
-

9th
1+1
-
-
-

10th
1+1
0+1
-
-

11th
1+1
1+1
-
-

12th
1+1
1+1
0+1
-

13th
1+1
1+1
1+1
-

14th
2+1
1+1
1+1
0

15th
2+1
1+1
1+1
1

16th
2+1
2+1
1+1
1

17th
2+1
2+1
2+1
1

18th*
3+1
2+1
2+1
1

19th*
3+1
2+1
2+1
2

20th*
3+1
3+1
2+1
2

*Note: Arcane Hierophant increases Hoardstealer spells and CL beyond the table. Levels 18-20 are extrapolated and can be ignored if considered invalid by the judges. Even without the spell slots, the arcane CL increase matters for spell duration/power and Companion Familiar.

Early play is mostly as a party support and scout. Standard low level rogue and druid tactics apply.
1: This level is all about the skill ranks. Thrown daggers, alchemical substances, and shortbow are best.
2: 1st druid spells and a briaxshunty companion / mount provide speed and more combat options.
3: Nightbringer initiate is mostly for skill ranks and enervation later. Woodland stride improves scouting.
4: 2nd spells! Melee combat is possible with bite of the wererat, but support and summoning is still better. Trackless step improves scouting.
5: Trade briaxshunty for dire eagle. Scouting from the air is possible, and the eagle is a nice beatstick.
Bracket Sweet spot: 5. Low levels are the weakest part of this build.

Wild Shape comes online. Still more of a scout or summoner than anything else, but wild shape ambush with sneak attack is valid.
6: Wild Shape! (see overview) 3rd spells! Because of level-up order, I can't take Natural Spell. Natural Bond is the obvious second choice. Scouting in tiny form is great.
7: Trade improved dire eagle for improved fleshraker dinosaur because I can fly now. (I waited for the improvement.) It's time to help kill/rob a very young dragon.
8: Entry into SI. All wild shape forms now have at least 30' darkvision. Item goals at this point: monk's belt + wilding clasp, mantle of the beast.
9: Natural Spell! Hide from Dragons is a great, "Oh sh-!" button when trying to steal from a dragon.
10: 2nd arcane spell from SI. This qualifies for Arcane Hierophant. Deep pockets is up, which means my bucket/hat of temporary holding is online.
Bracket Sweet spot: 9. Natural spell is very strong. For now, I stick to chordevoc form (tiny bird with fly 60' good) for scouting and spellcasting.

Pure power. Spellcasting, wild shape, and companion improvements abound.
11: 4th druid spells means enhanced wild shape. Cool tricks: enhanced (gain Ex and Su) + wild shape (swindlespitter) = 90' darkvision; enhanced + wild shape (chordevoc) = blindsense 60'. Great scouting forms. Companion familiar is online. No arcane spell failure in druid armor means I can wear it again if I don't want a monk's belt + wilding clasp.
12: Dragon form time! Since effective druid level is 8, initial favored form is very young shadow dragon for shadow meld. With a know arcana of 15 ranks, familiarity checks should not be a problem. I can see further than dragons with darkvision when in dragon wild shape. Also, 3rd arcane spells. A scroll of permanency is desirable for arcane sight. Swap companion familiar for bloodstriker dinosaur; arcane CL5 = Int 8. While this is partly for pulling cart-loads of stolen treasure, a smart bloodstriker is very dangerous.
13: Treasure dowsing in mines + burrowing dragon form = free money from ore and gems. Collector of Stories is helpful.
14: 4th arcane spell, usually used for dimension door. Darkvision range is even longer. Arcane CL7 = speak with animals of its kind (dinosaurs?).
15: BAB and all saves increase. Trickery devotion means I can be very safe in any theft I undertake. I hope by this level to have found/bought a wild shape amulet.
Build Sweet Spot: 12. Dragon wild shape (very young shadow dragon) gives shadow meld; combined with spells (camouflage, ect), I can probably steal from a young or juvenile dragon while it sleeps with no problems.

Incremental improvements.
16: More free money per day.
17: What I consider the capstone of the SI: Skill mastery grants a lot of benefits. Bluff and Gather Info help to begin a dragon hunt. Hide and move silently are vital. Knowledges help with wild shaping and knowing your foes. Capped out on Hoardstealer casting table.
18: 5th Druid spells. Knowledge Devotion for large, consistent (with skill mastery) bonuses vs arcana and nature foes. Arcane CL11 = SR16 and Int 11 for companion familiar.
19: Channel animal gives access to tricks with summons. Swap companion familiar for a dire bear.
20: 6th Druid spells. With no items, diminutive wild shape + darkvision 60' = a mouse inside walls. Add Trickery Devotion to get a mobile scrying sensor that you can control for some of the most potent druid spying possible. Arcane CL 13 = scry on companion familiar, SR18, Int 12. Are you not amused by an Int 12 dire bear?
Bracket Sweet Spot: 20. Post-12, every level is improvement.

Undersized Wild Shape is flavorful and not as bad as it seems. Most medium wild shape forms have a small equivalent; you care more about maneuverability and spying than wild shape combat; and the extra use helps power dragon wild shape later.
The following is a bunch of semi-organized notes about potential wild shape forms and at what effective druid level they are accessible for this build.

Undersized Wild Shape Forms
Tiny/Small, character level 6+:
tiny chordevoc (fly 60' good): scouting and spell-slinging form, enhanced wildshape = blindsense 60'
small swindlespitter dinosaur (move 30'): enhanced wildshape = base darkvision 60'
small serval (savannah wildcat) (move 40'): imp grab, pounce, rake
small viper/sea snake (movement modes: move/climb/swim 20'), sea snake loses climb but has +2 poison DC
small badger (move 30', burrow 10')
small octopus (aquatic, swim 30'): combine with air breathing spell for escape artist bonus to squeeze through spaces?
tiny rat, cat, lizard, hawk (spy)

Medium / Dragon, character level 12+:
small very young 7 - medium juvenile 13 shadow dragon (80', fly 150'avg-poor, shadow blend [total concealment, daylight sp negates], AC +11[1z+10NA]-16NA, breath energy drain gas 1-2 lvls, Refl)
small faerie dragon 8 (swim 30', fly 100' perfect, water breathing, breath 20' C euphoria gas 1d6 r dazed, Will)
small wyrmling 7 - medium young 12 rust dragon (fly 100-150' avg-poor, burrow 45', rusting bite DC 14, breath L acid 2d4-6d4 or C rust all metal Refl)
small wyrmling 5 - medium young 11 styx dragon (low base AC, swim 60', burrow 20', amphibious, constrict, imp grab, imune to poison/disease, disease [stygian wasting], breath L acid 1d6-3d6 persists 3r or C stupefying gas 1/age Int dmg, Fort)
small very young 7 - juvenile 13 black dragon (60', swim 60', fly 100'avg-150'poor, water breathing, immune acid, AC +7[1z+6NA]-12NA, breath L acid 4d4-8d4)
medium young 12 blue (immune elec, burrow 20', 40', fly 150' poor, +11NA, breath L elec 2d8-6d8)
medium young 11 green (immune acid, 40', swim 40', fly 150' poor, +10NA, breath C acid gas 2d6-6d6)
medium wyrmling 7 red (immune fire, cold vuln, +6NA, breath C fire 2d10)
small very young 6 - medium juvenile 12 white (spider climb on ice/snow, immune cold, vuln fire, 60', burrow 30', swim 30-60', fly 150'avg-200'poor AC +6[1z+5NA]-11NA, breath C cold 2d6-4d6)
small very young 7 - medium juvenile 13 brass (immune fire, vuln cold, 60', burrow 30', fly 150'avg-200'poor, AC +7[1z+6NA]-12NA, breath 2d6-4d6 L fire or C sleep 1d6+1/age r, Will [ench, m-a])
small wyrmling 6 - medium young 12 bronze (immune elec, alternate form (young), water breathing, 40', swim 60', fly 100'avg-150'poor, AC +6[1z+5NA]-11NA, breath 2d6-6d6 L elec or C repulsion 1d6+1/age r, Will [ench, m-a])
small very young 8 - medium juvenile 14 copper (immune acid, spider climb on stone, 40', fly 100'avg-150'poor, AC +8[1z+7NA]-13NA, breath 4d4-8d4 L acid)
medium wyrmling 8 gold (alternate form, immune fire, vuln cold, water breathing, 60', swim 60', fly 200'poor, +7NA, breath C fire 2d10)
small wyrmling 7 - medium young 13 silver (alternate form, immune acid/cold, clouldwalking, vuln fire, 40', fly 100'avg-150'poor, AC +7[1z+6NA]-12, breath 2d8-6d8 C cold or C paralyzing gas 1d6+1/a r, Fort)
medium ambush drake 7 (40', fly30'poor, AC+8, Str16/Dex15/Con18, breath 30' C slow 7r, Will)
small very young 8 - medium juvenile 14 sapphire (spider climb on stone, sense psychoportation, 40', fly 100'avg-150'poor, AC +8[1z+6NA+1Dex]-14[12NA+2Dex], breath 4d4-8d4 C sonic and panic 1d4 r Will)
small wyrmling 6 - medium young 12 amethyst (force resistant, poison immune, 40', fly150'poor, burrow 20', swim 10', AC +7[1z+5NA+1Dex]-12[11NA+1Dex], breath 2d8-6d8 L force, optional subdual)

Diminutive/Large/Plant character level ~17-20 (wild shape amulet or enhanced wild shape may provide earlier access):
dim. bat, mouse (spy)
large assassin vine 4
large dire animals, various
large battlebriar lesser 12 MM3: enhanced = trample, thorn volley
medium wood woad 8 MM3: treewalk at will
large night twist 15 MM3: Str39, enhanced Su abilities Cha-based, so reduce DCs
large briarvex 8 MM4: Str25, 30', enhanced = imp woodland stride, thorn burrow
large burrow root MM5: enhanced = speed burrow
large vinespawn 12 MM5: enhanced = vine net, engulf

Handy Haversack ASAP
Masterwork Padded Wooden Bucket Hat with latched internal bottom compartment: an ideal target for Deep Pockets. A wooden Bag of Holding isn't at risk of being punctured by weapons. A bucket is usable by almost any wild shape form (if taken off before transforming) and acts as a built-in scoop/funnel for quick grabs from hoard piles. The bucket is even a valid target for ironwood later.
+Int / +Wis prioritized; add +Int to a Stormfire Ring
Lesser Metamagic Rod of Silent Spell / Extend spell
Monk's Belt with pouches and loops (for wand/rod access in dragon shape) + Wilding Clasp
Mantle of the Beast: swift act wild shape
Wild Shape Amulet: +4 effective druid level for wild shape; this unlocks wild shape large and plant at late levels and provides earlier access to diminuitive.

Player's Guide to Faerun: Strongheart Halfling
Eberron Campaign Setting: Education
Lords of Madness: Darkstalker
Faiths of Eberron: Nightbringer Initiate
Cityscape Web Enhancement 1: (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) Iron Constitution
Races of the Wild: Halfling Druid, Arcane Hierophant, Briaxshunty, Chordevoc
Complete Adventurer: Natural Bond
Player's Handbook 1: Natural Spell
Draconomicon: Dragon Wild Shape, Shadow Dragon
Complete Champion: Antiquarian, Trickery Devotion, Knowledge Devotion, Mantle of the Beast
Monster Manuals 1-5: Most Wild Shape Forms
Sandstorm: serval (savannah wildcat)
Dragons of Faerun: Some of backstory
Magic of Faerun: Wild Shape Amulet
Magic Item Compendium: Wilding Clasp

Heliomance

2018-07-04, 06:59 AM

Entry number 4

https://i.imgur.com/D7rAkNX.jpg
Paulie Pocket, The Body Bag

N Dragonborn (Wings Aspect) Skarn Psychic Rogue 1/Totemist 2/Psychic Rogue 3/Hoardstealer 10/Totemist 7

Stats (with racial adjustments)
Str 15 (17) (increases here)
Dex 14 (10)
Con 14 (16)
Int 16
Wis 10
Cha 8
Build

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Psychic Rogue 1
+0
+0
+2
+0
Appraise 4, Disable Device 4, Escape Artist 4, Hide 4, Move Silently 4, Open Lock 4, Psicraft 2(4), Search 4, Tumble 4
Hidden Talent (Expansion)
Sneak Attack +1d6, Trapfinding

2nd
Totemist 1
+0
+2
+4
+0
Concentration 5, Psicraft 2.5(1), Tumble 5

Wild Empathy, Skilled City Dweller (Ride to Tumble), Illiteracy

3rd
Totemist 2
+1
+3
+5
+0
Concentration 6, Listen 2, Psicraft 3(1), Spot 2, Tumble 6
Body Pouch
Totem Chakra Bind (+1 capacity)

4th
Psychic Rogue 2
+2
+3
+6
+0
Appraise 6, Concentration 7, Hide 6, Move Silently 6, Search 6

Evasion

5th
Pyschic Rogue 3
+3
+4
+6
+1
Appraise 8, Concentration 8, Hide 8, Move Silently 8, Search 8

6th
Hoardstealer 1
+3
+4
+8
+1
Concentration 9, Use Magic Device 8
Barbed Stinger
Darkvision +30 ft, Trapfinding

7th
Hoardstealer 2
+4
+4
+9
+1
Concentration 10, Disable Device 8, Search 10, Use Magic Device 10

Hide from Dragons 1/Day

8th
Hoardstealer 3
+5
+5
+9
+2
Balance 3, Concentration 11, Disable Device 11, Search 11, Use Magic Device 11

Trap Sense +2, Deep Pockets

9th
Hoardstealer 4
+6/+1
+5
+10
+2
Balance 5, Concentration 12, Disable Device 12, Psicraft 4(2), Search 12, Use Magic Device 12
Practiced Manifester
Treasure Dowsing 1/day

10th
Hoardstealer 5
+6/+1
+5
+10
+2
Concentration 13, Disable Device 13, Jump 5, Search 13, Use Magic Device 13

Darkvision +60 ft

11th
Hoardstealer 6
+7/+2
+6
+11
+3
Concentration 14, Disable Device 14, Search 14, Tumble 8.5(5), Use Magic Device 14

Trap Sense +4, Hide from Dragons 2/day

12th
Hoardstealer 7
+8/+3
+6
+11
+3
Concentration 15, Disable Device 15, Search 15, Tumble 11(5), Use Magic Device 15
Shape Soulmeld (Mauling Gauntlets)
Treasure Dowsing 2/day

13th
Hoardstealer 8
+9/+4
+6
+12
+3
Disable Device 16, Search 16, Spot 3(2), Tumble 13(4), Use Magic Device 16

Skill Mastery (Concentration, Disable Device, Listen, Search, Spot, Use Magic Device)

14th
Hoardstealer 9
+9/+4
+7
+12
+4
Disable Device 17, Listen 4(4), Search 17, Spot 4.5(3)

Darkvision +90 ft, Trap Sense +6

15th
Hoardstealer 10
+10/+5
+7
+13
+4
Disable Device 18, Listen 6(4), Search 18, Spot 6(3)
Open Lesser Chakra (Arms)
Treasure Dowsing 3/day, Hide from Dragons 3/day

16th
Totemist 3
+11/+6/+1
+7
+13
+5
Disable Device 19(2), Listen 7, Search 19(2), Spot 8

Totem’s Protection

17th
Totemist 4
+12/+7/+2
+8
+14
+5
Disable Device 20(2), Listen 9, Search 20(2), Spot 9

18th
Totemist 5
+12/+7/+2
+8
+14
+5
Disable Device 21(2), Listen 10, Search 21(2), Spot 11
Open Lesser Chakra (Shoulders)
Chakra Binds (Crown, Feet, Hands)

19th
Totemist 6
+13/+8/+3
+9
+15
+6
Disable Device 22(2), Listen 13, Search 22(2), Spot 13

Totem Chakra Bind (+1 Meldshaper Level)

20th
Totemist 7
+14/+9/+4
+9
+15
+6
Disable Device 23(2), Listen 15, Search 23(2), Spot 16

Spells
Spells per Day

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

6th

0*
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

7th

1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

8th

1
0*
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

9th

1
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

10th

1
1
0*
-
-
-
-
-
-

11th

1
1
1
-
-
-
-
-
-

12th

2
1
1
0
-
-
-
-
-

13th

2
1
1
1
-
-
-
-
-

14th

2
2
1
1
-
-
-
-
-

15th-20th

2
2
2
1
-
-
-
-
-

Powers
1st: Expansion, Entangling Ectoplasm, Far Hand, Vigor
Backstory
You ever meet a kobold? They’re mean little suckers, I tell you what. But they’re crafty, too. They can’t fight worth much one on one, but they are clever enough to make all sorts of traps. The points on some of those things are sharper than Mephistopholes himself. I can’t remember how many times I’ve seen someone underestimate them and end up triggering so many traps they get killed ten times before they hit the ground. If you’re fixin’ to fight some kobolds, you better be ready to jump like a frog in a frying pan. I’ve learned more about traps from them than you probably want to know.

The other thing to know about kobolds is that, to hear them say it, they’ve all got dragon blood in their veins. Now of course, every Elminster, Rary, and Bigby’s got a little bit of dragon blood in them, but kobolds actually mean it. Not quite like my dragonblood, you understand. Mine’s a more noble extraction, from a dedication to the cause. A fair number of kobolds have a whole heap of dragon blood in ‘em, enough that they’re basically dragons themselves! ‘Course they’re still pretty little, but they must know what they’re doing, ‘cause every last one that I’ve seen is old as dirt. The important thing is, they're so much like dragons that some of my little tricks for slipping past dragons work just as well on them.

What’s the point of my yarn spinning? Well ain’t you an impatient one! Well you see, everyone kind of underestimates the kobolds, like I said, and that applies to my fellow Dragonborn as well. They’re all for killing them big dragons that are always burninating the countryside, but if the number of crotchety old Dragonwrought kobolds is any indication, they’re overlooking a growing problem. And that’s where I come in. I decided to do my questing in their mines instead of a big dragon cave and I found myself a nest of ‘em. It took some doing, but I cleared them out, all right.

What’s that? You heard I did it so I could steal their hoards? Now I take offense to that. Didn’t your momma ever teach you that it ain’t stealin’ if you’re taking it from a thief? Besides, I’m on a mission to fight evil dragons, so it’s spoils of war and all that. Now go away, you bother me.
Level 5
Let’s start at the beginning and, when we get to the end, stop. Skarn has some helpful stat adjustments, and Dragonborn further helps to beef up. It helpfully also grants immunity to frightful presence and extra AC vs dragons, valuable for an anti-dragon class like this. You might think that this is rather a heavy investment in strength for a skulk, and I’d agree with you. But since the SI doesn’t grant Hide, MS, or sneak attack, clearly we’re not building a skulk. Dragonborn provides wings which for now grant gliding. The only thing besides stat adjustments you’re keeping from skarn is the reptilian subtype, which will help us by letting us take Body Pouch. For now it’s a good place to hide things.

The SI calls for a number of skills to qualify, and we’ll be qualifying with Psychic Rogue, as it also suits our interests. It also provides a little sneak attack and some psionics. Entangling Ectoplasm provides a solid debuff to start a fight or slow down pursuers, Far Hand extends your sticky fingers, and Vigor gives you some temp hp to prep for fights. Expansion can make you bigger and stronger, and it can extend your reach in a fight.

We’re also going to spend some time in Totemist for some combat readiness. The totem bind gets you all the fancy natural attacks, and being Dragonborn gives you access to the draconic soulmelds, notably the dragon tail and claws of the wyrm which both give natural attacks when shaped.
Level 10
Now it’s time to start talking about Hoardstealer. Now that we’ve entered we can start investing heavily in UMD to help round out the SI’s utility shortcomings. Our other skill points will go into disable device and search to fulfill the class’s trap-focused role. The darkvision the class grants helpfully stacks with any existing, so you can combine it with the basilisk mask for some very long range. Treasure Dowsing may seem limited, but you can also use it in a bind to dowse for hidden enemies, as their treasure will ping on your radar.

Enough preamble; let’s get to what this class is really about. Deep Pockets is the most interesting of the abilities, so it is the focus of this build. You can use it on any container, and Body Pouch means you always have a container to cram things into. Moving things is perfectly fine, but we’re also going to cram in creatures. The feat very explicitly allows you to place creatures inside. They have to be 2+ size categories smaller? Enter practiced manifester, allowing you to manifest expansion to become Huge (and also providing more PP to use on it). It requires a grapple check? That’s perfectly fine, since you have Barbed Stinger to initiate grapples on any creature you attack. You might wonder where the stinger to qualify for this feat is coming from. The answer is from the totem bind of the Wormtail Belt. We’ll keep it constantly bound to avoid any issues with continuous qualification. The sting’s poison helpfully damages Strength to make grappling easier for you. The boost to Strength and the +8 size bonus also make grapple easier. You can further stack the odds by shaping and investing essentia in the girallon arms. Once you’ve started the grapple, you still have another iterative left over to cram your target into your Body Pouch, where the bag of holding effect takes them.

Once your target is inside, the rules get a little interesting. The Bag of Holding effect gives them 10 minutes of air, which means you will have plenty of time on the effect to suffocate whatever you pop in. A desperate opponent may attempt to cut their way out, which will result in the contents (read: them) being irrevocably lost. I’m not sure what the bag being ruined would translate to since this isn’t a real Bag of Holding, It might end the effect. Talk to your DM.
Level 15
With our central trick established, we can now turn our attention to enhancing our success and diversifying. With the SI wrapped up your Deep Pockets have a healthy duration and maximum weight. Skill Mastery is very useful, and will allow you to stop investing in Concentration and UMD. The boost will also help you hit those highest DCs for finding and disabling traps, and may allow you to do some of the fancy tricks like bypassing a trap while still having it be set. We’re also going to boost Spot and Listen, as we’re directing our skill points in that direction. You can further boost with the right melds. With maximum darkvision up you can see out to 180 feet (210 feet at level 18 on) with the basilisk mask, enough to see most creatures before they see you.

Opening your arms provides you with another boost to grapple checks, and also opens up more options for your melds, like rend by binding Girallon arms, easily combined with Claws of the Wyrm. The Mauling Gauntlets provide another boost to your grapple checks to keep your chance of success high. From level 12 on you can fly at 30 feet indefinitely, so you don’t have to spend any melds on flight.

As we’re finished with the SI, let’s briefly discuss spells here. Invisibility and Spider Climb can help you get the drop on your foes to start grappling them. Cat’s Grace can help offset the penalty to Dex from Expansion. Freedom of Movement can help you escape from a grapple that hasn’t gone how you wanted. Dimension Door can be used to isolate a foe from others once you’ve put them in your Body Pouch.
Level 20
Finished with the SI, we’re returning to Totemist to become a better hulking brute. More levels mean more melds, essentia, binds, and slots. We spend the feat to open the shoulders for some very fun effects. Pounce and Trip are on the table, as are miss chance, ethereal movement, and DR/magic, which also means magic strike. Lots of your build is modifiable as a totemist, just make sure you don’t lose sight of those melds that help you fulfill your central purpose of cramming enemies into your Body Pouch.
Sources
Psychic Rogue: Mind’s Eye (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b)
Totemist, Skarn, Shape Soulmeld, Open Lesser Chakra: Magic of Incarnum
Dragonborn: Races of the Dragon
Draconic Melds: Dragon Magic
Hidden Talent: Expanded Psionics Handbook pg 67 sidebar
Body Pouch, Barbed Stinger: Serpent Kingdoms
Practiced Manifester: Complete Psionic
Powers: srd
Skilled City Dweller: Cityscape Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)

Heliomance

2018-07-04, 07:00 AM

Entry number 5

"Did you truly believe that after you'd coughed your feted breath upon my village and absconded with our wealth that all I would do is slip into your lair and take back the treasure you'd stolen from us? Silly dragon. This grudge permeates much deeper into my soul than that! I will fight your fire with fire!"

Shellie Caleesye

Human Rogue 1/Incarnate 1/Totemist 1/Rogue +2/Hoardstealer 10/Exemplar 1/Uncanny Trickster 3/Exemplar +1

Chaotic Neutral

Common
Draconic
Elven
Dwarven
Auran
(At 9th level, the raven familiar will speak Draconic.)

Str 08
Con 14
Dex 14
Int 18
Wis 10
Cha 10

4, 8, 12, 16: Int
20: Con

It was Shellie's 8th birthday when her house exploded in a gout of flame. The dragons left the village as nothing but a pile of ash, and Shellie lived the rest of her childhood as a refugee, never really at home wherever she was.

For her adventuring days, she seeks to raid the lairs of dragons to take back what was stolen from her village (and, of course, more.) But the real revenge she plans, is the theft of dragon eggs. She'll raise them, train them...and sell them to the highest bidding kingdom, that they be used in battle to protect humanoid-kind against them further attacks of hungry and greedy dragons.

She will, of course, keep a few dragons around as her own pets, using them as mounts to better reach the lairs of dragons yet to be plundered. A well-trained dragon can be quite the valuable ally in such endeavors.

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Points (Rank) Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
(Antiquarian) (Martial) Rogue 1
+0
+0
+2
+0

4(4) Appraise
1(1) Autohypnosis
2(2) Balance
4(4) Concentration
2(2) Diplomacy
4(4) Disable Device
4(4) Escape Artist
1(1) Handle Animal
1(1) Heal
4(4) Hide
1(1) K:arc
1(1) K:religion
4(4) Listen
4(4) Move Silently
4(4) Open Lock
1(1) Ride
4(4) Search
4(4) Spot
2(2) UMD

1st: Able Learner; H: Darkstalker; B: Mounted Combat
Antiquarian (Complete Champion p.51)

2nd
Incarnate 1
+0
+2
+2
+2

1(5) Appraise
-(1) Autohypnosis
-(2) Balance
-(4) Concentration
-(2) Diplomacy
1(5) Disable Device
-(4) Escape Artist
-(1) Handle Animal
-(1) Heal
1(5) Hide
-(1) K:arc
-(1) K:religion
-(4) Listen
1(5) Move Silently
1(5) Open Lock
-(1) Ride
1(5) Search
1(5) Spot
-(2) UMD

--
Aura; Detect Opposition

3rd
Totemist 1
+0
+4
+4
+2

1(6) Appraise
-(1) Autohypnosis
-(2) Balance
1(5) Concentration
-(2) Diplomacy
-(5) Disable Device
-(4) Escape Artist
-(1) Handle Animal
-(1) Heal
1(6) Hide
-(1) K:arc
-(1) K:religion
1(5) Listen
1(6) Move Silently
-(5) Open Lock
-(1) Ride
1(6) Search
1(6) Spot
-(2) UMD
2(2) Skill Trick: Clever Improviser

3rd: Quick Reconnoiter
Wild Empathy; Illiteracy

4th
Rogue 2
+1
+4
+5
+2

1(7) Appraise
1(2) Autohypnosis
1(3) Balance
-(5) Concentration
1(3) Diplomacy
1(6) Disable Device
-(4) Escape Artist
-(1) Handle Animal
1(2) Heal
1(7) Hide
-(1) K:arc
-(1) K:religion
1(6) Listen
1(7) Move Silently
-(5) Open Lock
-(1) Ride
1(7) Search
1(1) Spellcraft
1(7) Spot
1(3) UMD
-(2) Skill Trick: Clever Improviser

B: Trample
Evasion

5th
Rogue 3
+2
+5
+5
+3

1(8) Appraise
1(3) Autohypnosis
1(4) Balance
-(5) Concentration
1(4) Diplomacy
1(7) Disable Device
-(4) Escape Artist
-(1) Handle Animal
1(3) Heal
1(8) Hide
-(1) K:arc
-(1) K:religion
1(7) Listen
1(8) Move Silently
-(5) Open Lock
-(1) Ride
1(8) Search
1(2) Spellcraft
1(8) Spot
1(4) UMD
-(2) Skill Trick: Clever Improviser

--
Quick Fingers (Dungeonscape p.13)

6th
Hoardstealer 1
+2
+5
+7
+3

-(8) Appraise
1(4) Autohypnosis
1(5) Balance
-(5) Concentration
-(4) Diplomacy
1(8) Disable Device
-(4) Escape Artist
-(1) Handle Animal
1(4) Heal
1(9) Hide
-(1) K:arc
-(1) K:religion
1(8) Listen
1(9) Move Silently
-(5) Open Lock
-(1) Ride
1(9) Search
1(3) Spellcraft
1(9) Spot
1(5) UMD
-(2) Skill Trick: Clever Improviser

6th: Bonus Essensia
Darkvision 30'; Trapfinding

7th
Hoardstealer 2
+3
+5
+8
+3

-(8) Appraise
1(5) Autohypnosis
-(5) Balance
-(5) Concentration
1(5) Diplomacy
1(9) Disable Device
-(4) Escape Artist
-(1) Handle Animal
1(5) Heal
-(9) Hide
1(2) K:arc
-(1) K:religion
2(10) Listen
-(9) Move Silently
1(6) Open Lock
-(1) Ride
-(9) Search
1(4) Spellcraft
1(10) Spot
1(6) UMD
-(2) Skill Trick: Clever Improviser

--
Hide From Dragons 1/day

8th
Hoardstealer 3
+4
+6
+8
+4

-(8) Appraise
-(5) Autohypnosis
-(5) Balance
-(5) Concentration
2(7) Diplomacy
-(9) Disable Device
-(4) Escape Artist
-(1) Handle Animal
1(6) Heal
1(10) Hide
1(3) K:arc
-(1) K:religion
1(11) Listen
1(10) Move Silently
1(7) Open Lock
-(1) Ride
1(10) Search
1(5) Spellcraft
1(11) Spot
1(7) UMD
-(2) Skill Trick: Clever Improviser

--
Trap Sense +2; Deep Pockets

9th
Hoardstealer 4
+5
+6
+9
+4

-(8) Appraise
1(6) Autohypnosis
-(5) Balance
-(5) Concentration
1(8) Diplomacy
1(10) Disable Device
-(4) Escape Artist
1(2) Handle Animal
1(7) Heal
1(11) Hide
1(4) K:arc
-(1) K:religion
1(12) Listen
-(10) Move Silently
1(8) Open Lock
-(1) Ride
-(10) Search
1(6) Spellcraft
1(12) Spot
1(8) UMD
-(2) Skill Trick: Clever Improviser

9th: Obtain Familiar
Treasure Dowsing 1/day

10th
Hoardstealer 5
+5
+6
+9
+4

-(8) Appraise
-(6) Autohypnosis
1(6) Balance
-(5) Concentration
1(9) Diplomacy
1(11) Disable Device
-(4) Escape Artist
1(3) Handle Animal
1(8) Heal
-(11) Hide
1(5) K:arc
-(1) K:religion
-(12) Listen
-(10) Move Silently
1(9) Open Lock
-(1) Ride
1(11) Search
1(7) Spellcraft
1(13) Spot
2(10) UMD
-(2) Skill Trick: Clever Improviser

--
Darkvision 60'

11th
Hoardstealer 6
+6/1
+7
+10
+5

-(8) Appraise
1(7) Autohypnosis
-(6) Balance
-(5) Concentration
1(10) Diplomacy
1(12) Disable Device
-(4) Escape Artist
1(4) Handle Animal
1(9) Heal
1(12) Hide
-(5) K:arc
-(1) K:religion
-(12) Listen
1(11) Move Silently
1(10) Open Lock
-(1) Ride
1(12) Search
1(8) Spellcraft
1(14) Spot
1(11) UMD
-(2) Skill Trick: Clever Improviser

--
Trap Sense +4; Hide From Dragons 2/day

12th
Hoardstealer 7
+7/2
+7
+10
+5

-(8) Appraise
-(7) Autohypnosis
-(6) Balance
-(5) Concentration
2(12) Diplomacy
1(13) Disable Device
1(5) Escape Artist
1(5) Handle Animal
1(10) Heal
-(12) Hide
-(5) K:arc
-(1) K:religion
-(12) Listen
-(11) Move Silently
1(11) Open Lock
-(1) Ride
1(13) Search
1(9) Spellcraft
1(15) Spot
1(1) Tumble
1(12) UMD
-(2) Skill Trick: Clever Improviser

12th: Wyrmgrafter
Treasure Dowsing 2/day

13th
Hoardstealer 8
+8/3
+7
+11
+5

1(9) Appraise
-(7) Autohypnosis
-(6) Balance
-(5) Concentration
-(13) Diplomacy
2(14) Disable Device
1(6) Escape Artist
1(6) Handle Animal
-(10) Heal
-(12) Hide
-(5) K:arc
-(1) K:religion
-(12) Listen
-(11) Move Silently
1(12) Open Lock
-(1) Ride
1(14) Search
1(10) Spellcraft
1(16) Spot
1(2) Tumble
-(12) UMD
-(2) Skill Trick: Clever Improviser
2(2) Skill Trick: Opening Tap

--
Skill Mastery (Listed in green)

14th
Hoardstealer 9
+8/3
+8
+11
+6

-(9) Appraise
1(8) Autohypnosis
-(6) Balance
-(5) Concentration
3(16) Diplomacy
-(14) Disable Device
-(6) Escape Artist
-(6) Handle Animal
-(10) Heal
1(13) Hide
-(5) K:arc
-(1) K:religion
1(13) Listen
1(12) Move Silently
1(13) Open Lock
-(1) Ride
1(15) Search
1(11) Spellcraft
1(17) Spot
1(3) Tumble
-(12) UMD
-(2) Skill Trick: Clever Improviser
-(2) Skill Trick: Opening Tap

--
Darkvision 90'; Trapsense +6

15th
Hoardstealer 10
+9/4
+8
+12
+6

-(9) Appraise
1(9) Autohypnosis
-(6) Balance
-(5) Concentration
-(16) Diplomacy
-(14) Disable Device
-(6) Escape Artist
-(6) Handle Animal
-(10) Heal
1(14) Hide
-(5) K:arc
1(2) K:religion
1(14) Listen
1(13) Move Silently
1(14) Open Lock
-(1) Ride
1(16) Search
-(-) Sleight of Hand
1(12) Spellcraft
1(18) Spot
1(4) Tumble
-(12) UMD
-(2) Skill Trick: Clever Improviser
-(2) Skill Trick: Opening Tap
2(2) Skill Trick: Magical Appraisal

15th: Skill Focus: Autohypnosis
Treasure Dowsing 3/day; Hide From Dragons 3/day

16th
Exemplar 1
+9/4
+8
+12
+8

-(9) Appraise
2(11) Autohypnosis
2(8) Balance
-(5) Concentration
-(16) Diplomacy
-(14) Disable Device
-(6) Escape Artist
-(6) Handle Animal
-(10) Heal
1(15) Hide
-(5) K:arc
2(4) K:religion
1(15) Listen
1(14) Move Silently
-(14) Open Lock
-(1) Ride
-(16) Search
-(-) Sleight of Hand
-(12) Spellcraft
1(19) Spot
1(5) Tumble
2(14) UMD
-(2) Skill Trick: Clever Improviser
-(2) Skill Trick: Opening Tap
-(2) Skill Trick: Magical Appraisal
2(2) Skill Trick: Slipping Past

--
Skill Artistry: Spot; Skill Mastery

17th
Uncanny Trickster 1
+9/4
+8
+14
+8

-(9) Appraise
3(14) Autohypnosis
2(10) Balance
-(5) Concentration
-(16) Diplomacy
-(14) Disable Device
-(6) Escape Artist
-(6) Handle Animal
-(10) Heal
2(17) Hide
-(5) K:arc
2(6) K:religion
1(16) Listen
2(16) Move Silently
-(14) Open Lock
-(1) Ride
-(16) Search
-(-) Sleight of Hand
-(12) Spellcraft
1(20) Spot
-(5) Tumble
2(16) UMD
-(2) Skill Trick: Clever Improviser
-(2) Skill Trick: Opening Tap
-(2) Skill Trick: Magical Appraisal
-(2) Skill Trick: Slipping Past

--
Bonus Trick (Listen to This); Favorite Trick (Slipping Past)

18th
Uncanny Trickster 2 (advancing Incarnate)
+10/5
+8
+15
+8

-(9) Appraise
3(17) Autohypnosis
1(11) Balance
-(5) Concentration
-(16) Diplomacy
-(14) Disable Device
-(6) Escape Artist
-(6) Handle Animal
-(10) Heal
2(19) Hide
-(5) K:arc
2(8) K:religion
1(17) Listen
2(18) Move Silently
-(14) Open Lock
-(1) Ride
-(16) Search
-(-) Sleight of Hand
-(12) Spellcraft
1(21) Spot
-(5) Tumble
3(19) UMD
-(2) Skill Trick: Clever Improviser
-(2) Skill Trick: Opening Tap
-(2) Skill Trick: Magical Appraisal
-(2) Skill Trick: Slipping Past

18th: Craft Wand
Bonus Trick (Nimble Charge); Favorite Trick (Nimble Charge); Chakra Bind (Crown)

19th
Uncanny Trickster 3 (advancing Incarnate)
+11/6/1
+9
+15
+9

-(9) Appraise
3(20) Autohypnosis
1(12) Balance
-(5) Concentration
-(16) Diplomacy
-(14) Disable Device
-(6) Escape Artist
-(6) Handle Animal
-(10) Heal
2(21) Hide
-(5) K:arc
2(10) K:religion
1(18) Listen
3(21) Move Silently
-(14) Open Lock
-(1) Ride
-(16) Search
-(-) Sleight of Hand
-(12) Spellcraft
1(22) Spot
-(5) Tumble
2(21) UMD
-(2) Skill Trick: Clever Improviser
-(2) Skill Trick: Opening Tap
-(2) Skill Trick: Magical Appraisal
-(2) Skill Trick: Slipping Past

--
Bonus Trick (Collector of Stories); Favorite Trick (Collector of Stories); Tricky Defense; Expanded Soulmeld Capacity +1; Incarnum Radiance 1/day

20th
Exemplar 2
+12/7/2
+9
+15
+10

-(9) Appraise
3(23) Autohypnosis
1(13) Balance
-(5) Concentration
-(16) Diplomacy
-(14) Disable Device
-(6) Escape Artist
-(6) Handle Animal
-(10) Heal
2(23) Hide
-(5) K:arc
2(12) K:religion
4(22) Listen
2(23) Move Silently
-(14) Open Lock
-(1) Ride
-(16) Search
-(-) Sleight of Hand
-(12) Spellcraft
1(23) Spot
-(5) Tumble
-(21) UMD
-(2) Skill Trick: Clever Improviser
-(2) Skill Trick: Opening Tap
-(2) Skill Trick: Magical Appraisal
-(2) Skill Trick: Slipping Past

--
Lend Talent; Skill Mastery +1

Spells per Day + Bonus Spells

Level(s)
1st
2nd
3rd
4th

6th
0+1
-
-
-

7th
1+1
-
-
-

8th
1+2
0+1
-
-

9th
1+2
1+1
-
-

10th
1+2
1+1
0+1
-

11th
1+2
1+1
1+1
-

12th
2+2
1+1
1+1
0+1

13th
2+2
1+1
1+1
1+1

14th
2+2
2+1
1+1
1+1

15th
2+2
2+1
2+1
1+1

16th-20th
2+2
2+2
2+1
1+1

Soulmelds
Essentia
Chakra Binds

Level(s)
Incarnate
Totemist
Essentia
Incarnate
Totemist

1
-
-
-
-
-

2
2
-
1
0
-

3-5
2
2
2
0
0

6-17
2
2
4
0
0

18
3
2
5
1
0

19-20
3
2
6
1
0

Typically shaped soulmelds:
For home, tending to dragons/eggs:
Arms: Riding Bracers
Throat: Silvertongue Mask
Crown: Hunter's Circlet
Hands: Lucky Dice

For home, understanding magic items:
Brow: Mage's Spectacles
Hands: Lucky Dice

For away, on adventures:
Hands: Theft Gloves
Feet: Acrobat Boots (or Brow: Keeneye Lenses)
Shoulders: Kruthik Claws
Waist: Manticore Belt

Of course, Shellie will have to plan her adventures. There may be times she'll prefer a Phase Cloak on her shoulders or the Kraken Mantle on her arms or ... or ... or ....

Shellie is a skill monkey. Do not imagine that she will ever be anything else. At this level, things are pretty straightforward. Hide, scout ahead, deal with the traps, pick the locks. Use those soulmelds accordingly: Theft Gloves, Keeneye Lenses, Kruthik Claws, Yrthak Mask, Manticore Belt....

Into Hoardstealer! The tactics stay much the same. Sneak, scout, steal. With the Hide From Dragons ability, Shellie can sneak past dragons even when Darkstalker fails (versus Mindsight, for example). Spells are also helpful for boosting movement and hiding. (Strongly consider buying wands for increased usage.) Though, let's not get crazy. Don't try sneaking around Great Red or Gold Wyrms just yet. Stick to the likes of Juvenile White or Brass dragons instead.

A raven familiar not only makes you a better scout (second set of eyes; the Alertness feat), it also offers bonuses to skills in the form of Aiding Another. With a roll of 12 (or higher), the raven can use UMD to activate wands, which betters action economy.

This is where things get fun for a skill monkey. So let's take a look at some of what these skills can do:

9 ranks + 5 Int + 2 Aid Another (from the familiar) + 3 (bonus from the raven) + 10 (from Skill Mastery) = 29
That result will certainly be enough to appraise most things. Add in a tool or two (spyglass or balance) for a slight boost when/if necessary.

5 ranks + 2 Con + 2 synergy (from Autohypnosis) + 10 (from Skill Mastery) = 19
In order to use other skills while distracted, Shellie needs to be able to make Concentration checks. Failure means the action fails and is wasted (PHB p.69-70). She can use a skill defensively at DC 15 to avoid AOOs.

For use of this skill (and Handle Animal), please refer to the rules section in the Draconomicon p.13: Rearing a Dragon.
13 ranks + 0 Cha + 2 Aid Another (from the familiar) + 8 insight (Silvertongue Mask soulmeld) + 1 luck (Lucky Dice soulmeld) + 2 synergy (from Knowledge: arcana) + 10 (Skill Mastery) = 36
If Shellie has been tending the dragon egg during incubation (of course she has, she stole the egg, after all, why wouldn't she tend it?) and was present at the hatching (of course she was, she's been tending to it, hasn't she?), the wyrmling will get a -7 to it's Sense Motive check. And another -5 for each component of alignment in common.
By example:
Red wyrmling dragon:
10 ranks (max for 7HD) + 0 Wis + 15 racial + 20 roll (it's possible, plan for it) - 2 (Shellie tending egg) - 5 (Shellie present at hatching) - 5 (chaotic in common) = 33. Shellie autowins.
Gold wyrmling dragon:
11 ranks (max for 8HD) + 2 Wis + 15 racial + 20 roll (it's possible, plan for it) - 2 (Shellie tending egg) - 5 (Shellie present at hatching) = 41. Shellie would need to roll a 15 or higher on the check instead of taking 10. Probably best to wait a few levels until ranks increase and more essentia can be invested into the Silvertongue Mask.

14 ranks + 5 Int + 8 insight (Theft Gloves soulmeld) + 10 (Skill Mastery) = 37
Auto-win at bypassing wicked mechanical traps.
Auto-win at bypassing spell traps from 2nd level spells.
Auto-win at disabling spell traps from 12th (whaaa??) level spells.
Increase the total with masterwork tools.
Decrease the time with Quickfingers (from level 5).

Back to Draconomicon p.13!
6 ranks + 0 Cha + 10 insight (Riding Bracers soulmeld) + 1 luck (Lucky Dice soulmeld) + 10 (Skill Mastery) = 27
Auto-win against any 7HD (or less) very young dragon. (This gets better as more essentia can be invested.)

10 ranks + 0 Wis + 2 Aid Another (from the familiar) + 8 insight (Hunter's Circlet soulmeld) + 1 luck (Lucky Dice soulmeld) + 1 synergy (from Knowledge: arcana) = 22 (or 24 with a healer's kit)
Roll of 3 (or 1 with a healer's kit) or higher succeeds at Hatching a Dragon Egg (Draconomicon p.11) (With the increase to essentia maximums at 18th level, Shellie auto-succeeds.)
On failures, see the Wyrmgrafter feat.

12 ranks + 2 Dex + 2 Aid Another (from the familiar) + 8 insight (Theft Gloves soulmeld) + 10 (Skill Mastery) = 34
+2 with masterwork thieves' tools.
Auto-win good locks.
By 18th level, Shellie auto-wins against amazing locks.
Opening Tap lets this work as a swift action.

14 ranks + 5 Int + 2 (Glaring Eye graft (Races of the Dragon p.128)) + 10 (Skill Mastery) = 31
Auto-find secret doors and typical simple traps.
Auto-find magical traps of spell level 6 or lower. (Traps of 9th level are auto-found when Shellie is 16th level.)

16 ranks + 0 Wis + 10 insight (Keeneye Lenses soulmeld) + 4 competence (Manticore Belt soulmeld) + 2 (Glaring Eye graft) + 2 Alertness feat (from familiar) + 10 (Skill Mastery) = 44
Auto-succeed on pinpointing active invisible creature.
Auto-succeed at noticing unmoving, living invisible creature.
Auto-succeed at noticing inanimate, invisible object or unmoving, unliving invisible creature.
(From Epic Level Handbook p.44)

None of the skills listed above include magical "help" of any nature. (Magic items that boost stats, items that grant skill bonuses, wands of spells that grant skill boosts, etc.) If such things are available, more's the better.

This is largely the same as before, but with more ranks in skills. One addition to note: the Magical Appraisal skill trick.

12 ranks + 5 Int + 10 insight (Mage's Spectacles soulmeld) + 1 luck (Lucky Dice soulmeld) + 1 roll (it's possible, plan for it) = 28
Auto-success on the Magical Appraisal check (and a lot of other things that Spellcraft can do.)

Some final skill notes (beyond what's already been said):

23 ranks + 0 Wis + 2 synergy (from Concentration) + 3 (Skill Focus feat) + 4 competence (Skill Artistry @ level 16) + 10 (Skill Mastery) - 2 (shaken) = 40
Auto-wins against Great Wyrm Red Dragon's frightful presence. (Note: a Great Wyrm Gold Dragon's FP DC is 41, so Shellie will still have to roll an 11 or higher on an attempt. The Lucky Dice soulmeld could help here, though, if Shellie was so inclined to shaping it during adventure travels.)

13 ranks + 2 Dex + 12 insight (Acrobat Boots soulmeld) + 10 (Skill Mastery) = 37
Auto-hits the check to cross a thin, slick, angled, strewn surface at full speed. (Though, the use of the Nimble Charge skill trick could obviate the need for a check altogether, albeit once per encounter.)

6 ranks + 2 Dex + 12 insight (Acrobat Boots soulmeld) + 10 (Skill Mastery) = 30
Which should get you out of most situations. Masterwork manacles will need a roll of 15 to slip out of. Shellie will never be able to slip the grasp of a sizable dragon that's got her grappled -- rely on Freedom of Movement for that.

12 ranks + 6 Int + 2 (Aid Another from familiar) + 10 (Skill Mastery) = 30
Auto-succeed on the check made with Antiquarian (Shellie's level 1).

23 ranks + 0 Wis + 14 insight (Keeneye Lenses soulmeld) + 2 (Glaring Eye graft) + 2 Alertness feat (from familiar) + 4 competence (Skill Artistry @ level 16) + 10 (Skill Mastery) = 55
With Quick Reconnoiter, Shellie can take 10 on a Spot check as a free action. If she notices an invisible object (as per ELH p.44), she can try again (either as an action or on subsequent turns as the free action check) to try to roll a 15 or higher to pinpoint the object in question.

21 ranks + 0 Cha + 1 roll (its possible, plan for it = 22
Auto-success on wand use. More importantly, the raven (even with it's -2 Cha modifier) can auto-succeed, too.

Rogue -- PHB p.49
Antiquarian ACF -- Complete Champion p.51
Martial Rogue -- Unearthed Arcana p.58
Able Leaner feat -- Races of Destiny p.150
Darkstalker feat -- Lords of Madness p. 179
Mounted Combat feat -- PHB p.98
Incarnate -- Magic of Incarnum p.20
Totemist -- Magic of Incarnum p.29
Autohypnosis skill -- Expanded Psionics Handbook p.36
Quick Reconnoiter feat -- Complete Adventurer p.112
Trample feat -- PHB p.101
Quick Fingers ACF -- Dungeonscape p.13
Bonus Essentia feat -- Magic of Incarnum p.35
Obtain Familiar feat -- Complete Arcane p.81
Skill Tricks -- Complete Scoundrel p. 82
Wyrmgrafter feat -- Races of the Dragon p.101
Skill Focus feat -- PHB p.100
Exemplar -- Complete Adventurer p.44
Uncanny Trickster -- Complete Scoundrel p.67
Craft Wand feat -- PHB p.92

Heliomance

2018-07-04, 07:01 AM

Entry number 6

Mellon

N Dragonborn Human Cloistered Cleric 5/Hoardstealer 4/Ruathar 2/Hoard +4/Sovereign Speaker 3/Hoard +2

https://i2.wp.com/tabletopkingdoms.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/dnd-ecards-05.jpg?resize=723%2C542&ssl=1
Replace Rogue w/ Cleric obviously…

My papa was always fond of saying that if you walked in the forest and no one could see or hear you, were you ever really there?
He gave me a name, but used to just call me Boy. He said it was better sometimes to not be found, just in case someone or something came looking for you.

He taught me many things in life, not least of all about the lifelong path my feet have taken me on. He called me his “little helper”. In truth, I was a pack mule, but a well fed and well paid one once I could earn my keep.

In time, I heard other “voices” beyond his. Greater powers were calling me into a life of service, of a sort. First I answered the call of Bahamut and became a Dragonborn. I then sought out and gained the attention of Astilabor to whom we’d been tithing to for as long as I could remember. She sent an emissary to speak to me, a great honor indeed. I was instructed to continue my path for there were many others such as had paid her lip service, and promised their own tithes, but yet never paid their due. Of course after the collection had been made, I was free to do with it such as I would. My own hoard began to grow.

It wasn’t always dragons whose hoard I would raid either. Occasionally there would be some other fool who might leave their valuables unprotected or uncared for. Obviously I could do better, and so they were added to the pile. A hoard could come in any size after all as my papa was fond of saying. A chest, a coin purse, or a fistful of coins set down at the opportune moment.

On one such occasion, while visiting a particularly lax Emerald Dragon, I stumbled upon a scroll with a unique spell written upon it, while “helping” my party fight the beast after they stupidly aroused its attention. The spell located the lost Elfblade “Aryvelahr Kerym” known as The Warblade. I knew enough about artifacts to know that I should steer clear of them, and so I turned the scroll over to a representative of the House of Irithyl that I knew to be nearby. That is, after I’d made my due escape from those bumbling idiots. Seriously, learn to walk without making such a ruckous that only the dead could ignore. I did them the favor of saving their backsides of course before leaving, I’m not inhuman!
In return, the elvish Lords named me Friend, and gave me an honorific on top of that. I hadn’t sought payment, it was simply the right thing to do, but never look a gift elf in the mouth my papa used to say. I attracted the service of a Huitzil, and he became my familiar, and his hoard grew along with my own.

My travels took me to many a strange land. I was not always in service to Astilabor as I went my way. I’m not a mindless buffoon who only acts upon the whim of another. She is mighty indeed, but a man has needs, and a hoard must grow. In time I came to see some validity in the religion of one of those far off lands. I would never disavow Astilabor, but I could see no harm in honoring others as well.

As I’ve often told my own son, whom I call Boy, your life is what you make it, but don’t make it hard. Don’t be a complacent fool. Take charge of your own destiny. Find a cause or a path and walk it, just like my papa and I have done. The Gods have been, and will be, long before and after you are gone, so choose your allegiances wisely, whatever they may be.

D6x17+D8x3+40 HPs

Deity: Astilabor

Dragonborn: Mind Aspect
Immune to paralysis/magic sleep. Darkvision 30ft and lowlight vision. +2 Listen/Search/Spot
at 6hd: Darkvision to 60, at 9HD DV to 90, lowlight to 3x human, at 12HD DV to 120, low to 4x human, 15HD gain Blindsense 30ft
+2 CON -2 DEX
gain (dragonblood) subtype, +2 dodge bonus to AC vs dragons, Immunity to Frightful Presence, Draconic Aspect (Mind), gain Speak Draconic

Cloistered Cleric:
As cleric, but 6+INT skills (add decipher script, speak language, all knowledges), d6 HD, poor BAB (I used Wiz progression), simple weapons, light armor proficiency, Lore (as bardic knowledge w/ cleric levels)

32 pt Buy:

Str 8
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 16
Cha 10
All points into WIS

Final
Str 8
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 21
Cha 10

A note on skills
Able learner = all skills cost 1 pt/rank regardless of class or not
at creation, Appraise, Hide, Knowledge Arcana, and Move Silently are all class skills via feat/domain with a bonus rank in both hide and move silent at level 1.
at 3rd lvl: Disable device, Open Lock, and Search become class skills via feat
Skill rank assignments and feats can be chosen at the same time, as per PHB 87.

CCLeric/Hoard=8 skill points/lvl, Ruathar=6/lvl, SS=4/lvl

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Cloistered Cleric1
+0
+2
+0
+2
Appraise 4, Concentration 2, cc-Disable Device 2, cc-Escape Artist 2, Hide 4, Knowledge Arcana 4, Knowledge Religion 1, Move Silently 4, cc-Open Lock 2, cc-Search 2, cc-Sleight of Hand 1, Spellcraft 4, cc-Spot 1, cc-UMD 1
Apprentice, (B) Knowledge Devotion, (B) Skill Focus -Appraise, (B) Able Learner
Rebuke Dragons ACF, Spells, Dragonborn stuff (Mind Aspect)

2nd
CCleric 2
+1
+3
+0
+3
Appraise 5, Conc 4, Hide 5, Know Arc 5, Know Rel 3, Move 5
-
-

3rd
CCleric 3
+1
+3
+1
+3
Appraise 6, Disable 3, Hide 6, Move 6, Open Lock 3, Search 3, Collector of Stories
Initiate of Astilabor
-

4th
CCleric 4
+2
+4
+1
+4
Appraise 7, Disable 4, Escape 3, Hide 7, Move 7, Open 4, Search 5
-
-

5th
CCleric 5
+2
+4
+1
+4
Appraise 8, Escape 4, Hide 8, Move 8, Search 8, UMD 2
-
-

6th
Hoardstealer 1
+2
+4
+3
+4
Conc 5, Disable 5, Escape 5, Open 5, Search 9, Sleight 2, UMD 4
Darkstalker
Darkvision +30, Trapfinding, Spells

7th
Hoard 2
+3
+4
+4
+4
Conc 6, Disable 6, Hide 10, Move 10, Open 6, Sleight 3, UMD 5
-
Hide from Dragon 1/day

8th
Hoard 3
+4
+5
+4
+5
Conc 8, Disable 8, Hide 11, Know Arc 6, Know Rel 4, Move 11
-
Trapsense +2, Deep Pockets

9th
Hoarde 4
+5
+5
+5
+5
Conc 9, Disable 9, Hide 12, Know Arc 7, Know Rel 5, Move 12, Open 8
Practised Spellcaster (Cleric)
Dowsing 1/day

10th
Ruathar 1
+5
+5
+7
+7
Conc 10, Disable 10, Hide 13, Know Arc 8, Know Rel 6, Move 13
-
Word of Friendship, Gift of Elves, +1 SC (Cleric)

11th
Ruathar 2
+6
+5
+8
+8
Conc 11, Disable 11, Hide 13, Know Arc 9, Know Rel 7, Move 14
-
Elfwise, Improved Lowlight, +1 SC (Cleric)

12th
Hoard 5
+6
+5
+8
+8
Conc 12, Disable 12, Hide 14, Know Arc 10, Know Rel 8, Move 15, Open 10
Obtain Familiar,
(B) Alertness
Darkvision +60

13th
Hoard 6
+7
+6
+9
+9
Conc 13, Disable 13, Hide 15, Know Arc 12, Move 16, Open 12
-
Trapsense +4, Hide from Dragons 2/day

14th
Hoard 7
+8
+6
+9
+9
Conc 14, Disable 14, Hide 16, Know Arc 14, Move 17, Open 13, UMD 6
-
Dowsing 2/day

15th
Hoard 8
+9
+6
+10
+9
Conc 15, Disable 15, HIde 17, Know Arc 15, Move 18, Open 14, Swift Concentration
Worldly Focus
Skill Mastery (Conc, Disable, Hide, Move, Open Lock)

16th
Sovereign Speaker 1
+9
+6
+10
+11
Disable 16, Hide 18, Move 19, Open 15
-
Bonus Domain (Celerity)

17th
SS 2
+10
+6
+10
+12
Disable 17, Hide 19, Move 20, Open 16
-
Bonus Domain (Magic), +1 SC (Cleric)

18th
SS 3
+11
+7
+11
+12
Disable 18, Hide 20, Open 17, UMD 7
Dragonfoe
Bonus Domain (Luck), +1 3rd lvl domain slot, +1 SC (Cleric)

19th
Hoard 9
+11
+8
+11
+13
Hide 21, Move 21, Open 18, Sleight 6, Opening Tap
-
Darkvision +90, Trapsense +6

20th
Hoard 10
+12
+8
+12
+13
Open 20, Sleight 10, Clever Improviser
-
Dowsing 3/day, Hide from Dragons 3/day

1- Apprentice
1- (B) Knowledge Devotion
1- (B) Able Learner (cc skills only cost 1 pt)
1- (B) Skill Focus Appraise
3- Initiate of Astilabor (add Disable Device, Open Lock, Search to class skill list, spells)
6- Darkstalker
9- Practiced Spellcaster CArc 82 (+4 CL for 1 class - Cleric)
12- Obtain Familiar (comp arc 81) – Huitzil
12- (B) Alertness
15- Worldly Focus
18- Dragonfoe - +2 attacks vs dragons, +2 CL to overcome SR, dragons at -2 to saves

Familiar:
Huitzil (BASE)
N Tiny Animal (Dragonblood)
Init +2 Lowlight, Hover, (B) Weapon Finesse, Distract (Ex)
AC 17 Touch 14 Flat 15 (+2 size +2 Dex +3 Natural)
F2 R4 W0 STR 5 DEX 15 CON 10 INT 2 WIS 11 CHA 8
speed 10/fly 60 avg
Bite +4 (1d3-3) Talon -1 1d2-3) BAB/Grapple +0/-11
Hide +10, Sleight of Hand +10, Search +4, Spot +2

LVL 10 Familiar:
10HD ½ Master’s HP, +5 NA, INT 10, Master’s BAB/Base Saves/Skills
Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, Speak with Master, Speak with animals of its kind

Apprentice: No good listed options match the needs of a Hoardstealer, so we’re making one up based loosely off of the Criminal subtype.
Retain the extra starting 100 gold
Gain +2 to Move Silent checks, Associated Skills Hide, Move Silent

Skill Tricks:
Collector of Stories – gain a +5 bonus to all knowledge checks to ID monsters
Swift Concentration – maintain concentration as a swift action
Opening Tap – open locks as a swift action
Clever Improviser – ignore penalties to disable device/open lock from no tools

Cleric Spells per Day

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st
3
2+1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
4
3+1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
4
3+1
2+1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

4th
5
4+1
3+1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

5-9th
5
4+1
3+1
2+1
-
-
-
-
-
-

10th
5
4+1
4+1
3+1
-
-
-
-
-
-

11-17th
6
5+1
4+1
3+1
2+1
-
-
-
-
-

17th
6
5+1
4+1
4+1
3+1
-
-
-
-
-

18-20th
6
6+1
5+1
5+2
3+1
2+1
-
-
-
-

HS Casting:

Hoardstealer Spells per Day

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

6th
-
1

-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

7th
-
2

-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

8th
-
2

1

-
-
-
-
-
-
-

9th
-
2

2

-
-
-
-
-
-
-

12th
-
2

2

-
-
-
-
-
-
-

13th
-
2

2

1

-
-
-
-
-
-

14th
-
3

2

1

-
-
-
-
-
-

15th
-
3

2

1

1

-
-
-
-
-

19th
-
3

3

1

1

-
-
-
-
-

20th
-
3

3

2

1

-
-
-
-
-

Add to list from Cloistered Cleric:
0-message, 1-erase, identify, unseen servant, 2-fox’s cunning, 3-illusory script, secret page, tongues, 4-detect scrying
At 3rd lvl, add from Initiate Feat
1-Hoard Gullet
2-Knock
3-Nondetection
7-Sequester

Cavern Domain
GP- Gain Stonecunning (PHB15)
1- Detect Secret Doors
2- Darkness
3- Meld into Stone
4- Leomund’s Secure Shelter
5- Passwall
6- Find the Path
7- Maw of Stone

Wealth Domain
GP- Gain Appraise as a class skill, add Skill Focus (Appraise) as a bonus feat
1-Alarm
2-Obscure Object
3-Glyph of Warding
4-Detect Scrying
5-Leomund’s Secret Chest
6- Forbiddance
7-Sequester

Magic Domain
GP: Use Scrolls/Wands/other devices with spell completion/trigger activation as a wizard of one-half your cleric level. For the purposes of a scroll or other magic device, if you are also a wizard, actual wizard levels and these effective wizard levels stack.
1-Magic Aura
2-Identify
3-Dispel Magic
4-Imbue with Spell Ability
5-Spell Resistance
6- Antimagic Field
7- Spell Turning

Celerity Domain
GP: Your land speed is faster by +10 feet as long as you are in light armor and carrying less than a med load.
1-Expeditious Retreat
2-Cat’s Grace
3-Blur
4-Haste
5-Tree Stride
6- Wind Walk
7- Cat’s Grace, Mass

Luck Domain
GP – 1/day reroll any roll before the DM declares success or failure, must keep 2nd roll
1-Entropic Shield
2-Aid
3-Protection from Energy
4-Freedom of Movement
5-Break Enchantment
6- Mislead
7-Spell Turning

Unseen Servant – have it “stand” between you and the dragon, if the dragon charges you, it hit’s the US instead, allowing you time to gtfo. Or use it to carry off another 20 lbs of loot, or shovel it into a bag of holding etc. When sufficient currency is built up, save your slot for something else using a Collar of Perpetual Attendance instead (2k gold) to summon them at will.

Dark Way and Bridge of Sound can likewise be used to put a barrier between you and any dragon or other minion that might be trying to eat you.

Hoard Gullet is especially useful and synergetic, especially when combined with the share spells ability of your familiar.

Meld into Stone gives you a getaway option, and combining that with Footsteps of the Divine gives you a way to burrow through the rock, this is of course improved even further when using Hide from Dragons/Dimension door.

I think it’s a travesty that this SI doesn’t have silence on its spell list, so you need to obtain that some other way, like cleric 2! That will probably be a go to spell for a long time, so how about a wand or some scrolls of silence? Silence combined with Darkstalker means you can’t be detected at all for the duration, how would you make a Listening check when there’s nothing to hear?

Contingent Energy Resistance can be cast before you ever even enter the dungeon/dragons Lair and gives you an extra layer of defense should you be detected. Likewise Energetic Healing both gives you immunity to a breath weapon and gives some minor healing on top of that immunity.

In a pickle? Favorable Sacrifice turns that pile of loot the dragon has into massive defensive bonus’s to you. If you’re already caught, why not go whole hog?

Passwall, stoneshape are just more ways to get either into or out of the vault.

Quall’s Feather Token (tree) dropped in the middle of the dungeon, combined with Tree Stride means a get out of jail free card.

Possible Spells
Cleric:
1- Conjure Ice Beast, Ebon Eyes, Favorable Sacrifice, Snowshoes, Spell Flower,
2- Dark Way, Divine Insight, Spider Legs, Find Traps, Silence
3-Anti-Dragon Aura, Blindsight, Bridge of Sound, Chain of Eyes, Footsteps of the Divine, Mantle of X, Stone Shape, Meld into Stone
4-Abyssal Might, Contingent Energy Resistance,
5-Aura of Evasion, Divine Agility, Energetic Healing, Wall of Dispel Magic

14 INT = Bonus spells of 1-1,2-1
16 WIS = Bonus spells of 1-1, 2-1, 3-1
18 WIS = Bonus spells of 1-1, 2-1, 3-1, 4-1
20 WIS = Bonus spells of 1-2, 2-1, 3-1, 4-1, 5-1

Cleric CL = 13, but effective level 9th (5th’s}
HS CL = 10 (4th’s)

5- the Knowledge Domain is traded for Knowledge Devotion. Through Feats and Domains you pick up Appraise, Hide, Knowledge Arcana and Move Silently, Search, Open Lock, and Disable Device as class skills. All the pre-reqs for the SI are paid off, at this point you’re a sneaky cleric. Conjure Ice Beast is your goto low level combat spell, otherwise you’re a support character/backup or replacement rogue and thanks to Lore + Collector of Stories+ Knowledge Devotion, a source of knowledge for your team or yourself. (Skill Focus Appraise is given up to Dragonborn)

10- Half way into the SI, you pick up Darkstalker and catch your cleric casting up with Practiced Sellcaster. Darkvision is out to 120ft at this point, who needs a torch? Ruathar gives you essentially a free magic item at the pointy eared one’s discretion, for us, probably boots of elven-kind which means a free +5 to move silently. At 3rd lvl Divine, and 2nd lvl Arcane from the crappy SI spell list. The first sweet spot is at level 6 where Darkstalker and Silence combine to make you practically undetectable.

15- 8/10 levels in the SI, 5 in CCleric and 2 in Ruathar. Pick up a Huitzil familiar, plenty on that already spelled out about how to use it. Pick up extra uses of the SI’s abilities, and take Worldly Focus as a feat, meaning we no longer need a holy symbol in our hands to cast. Swift Concentration frees up our action economy a bit. The second sweet spot is at lvl 12 where your Familiar comes online and starts synergizing with all your other abilities. The third sweet spot is at 15 when you can take 10 on all your most used abilities thanks to Skill Mastery.

20- Finishing off the SI as well as picking up 3 levels in Sovereign Speaker which also grants 3 additional Domains (Celerity, Magic, and Luck). Darkvision tops out at 210 feet and you gain Blindsense 30 feet on top of that. Dragonfoe is the final feat chosen giving bonus to you and negatives to them, 2 hoorays in one. Silent Spell could be a good alternative, allowing spell casting while in our near permanent silence field. Clever Improvisor means we don’t even have to carry tools with us anymore unless the bonus from using them is more important than not having them. Opening Tap also aids our action economy making those checks swift actions as well! Doing more stuff is always better than doing the same or less stuff per turn.

First off, I don’t believe the “casts as a Wizard does” means that your HS casting would stack with any other wizardlike casting to grant you beyond this list, or that you could jump into something else and suddenly have 10 CL’s of wizard to build off of. So that means either a rogue/melee entry or choose another casting source for the other 10 levels of the build. I chose to go w/ Cloistered Cleric primarily for the skill points, but also because cleric casting options are strictly speaking better options thematically for this SI. Especially since you only need an INT of 14 to cast the entire HS spell list.

A lot of the the things in this build highlight and work in synergy right alongside the SI. Darkvision is maximized almost to the breaking point. 90 feet from the SI, an additional 120 feet from Dragonborn.

Trapfinding/Trap Sense is pretty underwhelming by itself, but considering that you assume you’ll be underground the majority of the time, the granted power of the Cavern Domain, stonecunning, grants you a bonus to find traps in stonework. On top of that, this SI is so MAD that you can’t optimize one ability score w/o drastically damaging another one that may be equally important. Elfwise also grants a minor bonus to help with these skills as well.

Deep Pockets is a great ability, but at only 1/day for 10 hours you better hope you can get out of the dungeon before all that comes up.. Hoard Gullet, when combined w/ share spells for your familiar emulates this, meaning you might have a bag of holding, or a belt of many pockets, or a handy haversack, or any other extra dimensional space as well. Hoard Gullet in turn makes your tummy a bag of holding, and you can just swallow things to your hearts content while also shoveling items into a bag, while also having your unseen servant do the same, while also having your familiar do the same… Add Favorable Sacrifice into this for when you get caught, and you will gain massive DR/SR and other defenses to help you get out. Many other spells/abilities will come online to assist in this. Survival is more important that money, but we’ll keep the money if at all possible. Don’t discount what your familiar can stuff down its throat just because he’s tiny. A 1000 pounds or 100 cubic feet of diamond dust, dragon bone dust, platinum coins, etc etc.

Hide from Dragons is great as a spell, but horrible as a class feature… 1 ROUND/level… what’s the point? However, combining Darkstalker and the spell Silence means you are basically invisible to that dragon unless it can detect you by some other means. Scent is your only weakness that HfD does for you, but in those 10 rounds while this is up, you better be getting out of dodge asap, lest a few dragon breaths are launched at your last known location.

Treasure Dowsing is so utterly worthless entirely that it is the only aspect of the SI not optimized. 3/day for 100 feet of range you can tell where a specific metal is. Whoopty do. The only thing you’re doing to make this better is the skill trick Swift Concentration that lets you possibly do this as a swift instead of a full round action, and combining that with skill mastery concentration. Otherwise, the ability links directly to the rod in the DMG of the same properties that instead of 100 feet range instead gives you 30 feet range on demand at the likewise exorbitant cost of 10k gold. (It’s called a search check…)

Finally, Skill Mastery. Taking 10 on our most used skills: Conc, Disable, Hide, Move, Open Lock means more likely than not instant success the majority of the time. The only thing to possibly switch out to make more sense would be Open Lock or Disable Device and replace either of them with UMD or Knowledge Arcana to stack on the Devotion pain (However you’re more interested in hiding from the dragon than fighting the dragon..).

Also, Knowledge Devotion, Lore, and Collector of Stories + Knowledge Arcane all combine to give you the leg up on your draconic foes. Dragonfoe later piles on the dragon hate train. Fun Fact, Collector of stories gives you a +5 competence bonus to knowledge checks, but doesn’t specify to which knowledge it applies. So for the low low price of 2 skill points for the skill trick, you gain a +5 bonus to ALL knowledge checks made to “learn powers or vulnerabilities”.

Lore (+7), Collector (+5), Know Arc (+15) plus a die roll equals your Know Devotion check. Obviously the Know Arc amount changes over time, but the result of that roll at any given point equals a bonus to attacks and damage of:

0-15 = +1
16-25= +2
26-30= +3
31-35= +4
36+ = +5

At first level our modifier would be Lore (+3) Know Arc (+4) plus a d20. At third it jumps to Lore (+5) Collector (+5), Know (+5) plus a d20, and it scales upward from there!

I briefly considered a dip into Contemplative for another bonus domain, this time the Time Domain. Improved Initiative is always nice, but I really just wanted access to Permanency as a 5th spell. However, with as much loot as you should be rolling in at the point that you would get access to this, you should be able to just buy all those effects on yourself anyways without it really effecting your pocketbook to much.

The magic domain’s granted power stacks ½ your cleric levels w/ effective wizard levels for the purposes of using items scrolls/wands/devices w/ spell completion triggers. Theoretically you could argue that your check for those would be: cleric 2 + wiz 10 + UMD + your d20 roll. It does state that if you are “actually a wizard”, however I think in this case the wording of how you cast as a HS would actually work in your favor. If the DM goes for it, bonus, if not, well, you have it worked into your build anyways, just not as “yay” as it could be otherwise.

Astilabor vs the Sovereign Host:
There is nothing in the PHB that unequivocally states that you can only have 1 deity as a cleric. In fact, a cleric doesn’t even need to have a deity if they so choose. I have chosen to serve Astilabor, but also later worship the Sovereign Host as a pantheon and not a single god. In fact, PHB page 106 states, “It is only prudent to be respectful toward or even pray to other deities when the time is right”. As a Neutral character I prefer good over evil, and have chosen to spontaneously convert spells to healing spells. The Host generally speaking looks out for the people. As a Cleric to Astilabor, I’m in favor of advancing the size of my own hoard primarily above all things, but I also care about the well-being of others.

Complete Arcane – Obtain Familiar, Practiced Spellcaster
Complete Champion – Knowledge Devotion
Complete Divine – Celerity Domain
Complete Scoundrel –skill tricks
Draconomicon – Astilabor, Dragonfoe, Hoardstealer, Wealth Domain
Dragon Magic – Huitzil, Initiate of Astilabor, Rebuke Dragons ACF
DMG II – Apprentice
Faiths of Eberron – Sovereign Host, Sovereign Speaker, Worldly Focus
Lords of Madness – Darkstalker
Player’s Handbook – Cleric, Luck Domain, Magic Domain, Stonecunning
Races of Destiny – Able Learner
Races of the Dragon – Dragonborn
Races of the Wild - Ruathar
Spell Compendium – Cavern Domain
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericDomains.htm - Magic Domain

Heliomance

2018-07-04, 07:02 AM

Entry number 7

Astrid crouched, her calves growing sore, peering across the town square at the guard standing firmly in front of the gilded door.

“This is ridiculous,” whispered Nyssa. “We’ve been waiting for hours. Why don’t we just go in?”

“Well, if there wasn’t a guard standing in front of the door holding an axe that weighs more than the both of us combined, maybe I would!” She looked around. “Just wait. The prophecy said the warrior would appear. The prophecy is never wrong.”

“Well, it might not be wrong, but it’s certainly late,” she said. “It’s nearly sundown. Let’s just go up and see if they’ll let us in. Hells, how do we know the General is even still in there?”

“I don’t!” she hissed. “And don’t shove me. The warrior will come. Trust me. The great warrior will appear in the town square today and tear down the walls of corruption that have imprisoned our city. General Driftmoor will be cast aside, and the fires of revolution will finally come ablaze. This day has been written in the prophecy for hundreds of—”

“Hundreds of what?”

“Hang on, was that there before?”

“Was what there?”

“That… box. Was that always there?” Astrid looked around. In the middle of the square, next to the fountain, stood a little square structure no bigger than a farmer’s hut covered in greyish-blue metal. On the side facing them was a heavy door. Astrid slowly walked up to it, looking all around. No one else seemed bothered by the box’s sudden appearance. She raised her fist, hesitated, knocked.

“Just a minute!” came a small voice. There was a great scraping noise, several loud clunks, one loud clatter as though someone tripped over something large. Then the door shook with the sound of a large deadbolt withdrawing and swung inwards. “Yes?”

Astrid looked down. Standing barely more than waist-high was a little man… or was he? No, not a man, some kind of small machine made of wood and bronze and silver, leaning on a wooden walking stick with a black metal head. His small, mechanical eyes looked up at her. He was dressed oddly, a large burgundy frock coat and a child’s short-pants covered in patches over what appeared to be some sort of armor plating. All of this sopping wet, dripping noisily on the ground.

“I - hello, I…” Astrid stammered. “Um. You’re wet.”

“I was swimming,” he said. “It does tend to get one wet.”

“Swimming? In your clothes?”

“Well, I hardly had time to change,” he said testily.

Astrid peered around the little man into the small space behind him. “Where - where were you swimming?”

“In the swimming pool, of course,” he said. “Don’t ask stupid questions. Where am I, exactly?”

“What? You’re in Adderport,” Astrid answered, confused. “You don’t even…?”

“Oh, good,” said the little man, and he rushed out past her, slamming the door to the strange little room behind him as he went. Without stopping, he strode quickly across the town square and up to the large guard in front of General Driftmoor’s residence. “Hello,” he said, staring up at the man. “I’m here to see the General.”

The guard grunted and adjusted his axe. “Have you got an appointment?”

“No, I haven’t got an appointment. Just an old friend, passing by. Well, I wouldn’t say friend, exactly. More of an old associate. Well, maybe not associate, that’s not the word. Chum? Confidant? No, that’s not right either. Doesn’t matter. Just tell General Driftmoor I’m here. It’ll be a bit of a surprise. Can’t wait to see his face.”

“The General is occupied,” the guard grumbled. “Unless you have an appointment.”

“Just turn around and go inside and tell General Driftmoor that the Professor would like to see him,” said the man, shooing impatiently. “I haven’t got all day.”

“The Professor? Professor who?”

“Just the Professor. Tell him exactly that.”

The large man frowned and considered protesting further, then shrugged and went inside. Astrid crept closer to the door, waving Nyssa forward. She could just barely make out the sound of the guard’s deep voice grumbling through the door, then a loud bang, and heavy footsteps returning. The door swung open and the guard stood there again, still quite alone and frowning.

“The General, um, says thank you for coming by,” he said. “He regrets to inform you that he, uh, is just completely booked right now. No chance to chat, but, um…”

“He’s climbing out the rear window, isn’t he?” asked the Professor.

The guard sighed. “Yes, sir,” he said. “Yes he is.”

The Professor turned, his little legs carrying him quickly around the building. After several paces, he turned to Astrid and Nyssa. “Well?” he asked, the falling sun glinting off of eyes of metal and glass. “Are you coming?”

https://i.pinimg.com/474x/a3/5e/0d/a35e0d891ad5f6e4f4a0f0c438658b13--tardis-wallpaper-hd-wallpaper.jpg
The Professor
CG Warforged Scout, Rogue 1/Artificer 9/Hoardstealer 10

"We're all stories in the end. Just make it a good one, eh?"

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Rogue 1
+0
+0
+2
+0
Hide 4 ranks, move silently 4 ranks, use magic device 4 ranks, escape artist 4 ranks, search 4 ranks, open lock 4 ranks, disable device 4 ranks, appraise 4 ranks, craft (armorsmithing) 4 ranks, craft (weaponsmithing) 1 rank, forgery 1 rank, knowledge (arcana) 1 rank, decipher script 4 ranks, craft (alchemy) 4 ranks
Darkstalker
Sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding

2nd
Artificer 1
+0
+0
+2
+2
Appraise +1 rank (5), hide +1 rank (5), move silently +1 rank (5), use magic device +1 rank (5), search +1 rank (5), decipher script +1 rank (5)
Scribe ScrollB
Artificer knowledge, artisan bonus, disable trap, infuse self, item creation, Scribe Scroll

3rd
Artificer 2
+1
+0
+2
+3
Appraise +1 rank (6), hide +1 rank (6), move silently +1 rank (6), use magic device +1 rank (6), search +1 rank (6), craft (armorsmithing) +1 rank (5)
Brew PotionB, Wand Bonding
Brew Potion

4th
Artificer 3
+2
+1
+3
+3
Appraise +1 rank (7), hide +1 rank (7), move silently +1 rank (7), use magic device +1 rank (7), search +1 rank (7), knowledge (arcana) +1 rank (2)
Craft Wondrous ItemB
Craft Wondrous Item

5th
Artificer 4
+3
+1
+3
+4
Appraise +1 rank (8), hide +1 rank (8), move silently +1 rank (8), use magic device +1 rank (8), search +1 rank (8), craft (armorsmithing) +1 rank (6)
Extend SpellB
Tools of war, bonus feat

6th
Artificer 5
+3
+1
+3
+4
Hide +1 rank (9), move silently +1 rank (9), use magic device +1 rank (9), search +1 rank (9), craft (armorsmithing) +2 ranks (8)
Craft Magic Arms and ArmorB, Persistent Spell
Craft Magic Arms and Armor, craft weapon familiar

7th
Hoardstealer 1
+3
+1
+5
+4
Hide +1 rank (10), move silently +1 rank (10), use magic device +1 rank (10), search +1 rank (10), craft (armorsmithing) +2 ranks (10)

Darkvision +30 ft., trapfinding

8th
Hoardstealer 2
+4
+1
+6
+4
Hide +1 rank (11), move silently +1 rank (11), use magic device +1 rank (11), search +1 rank (11), craft (armorsmithing) +1 rank (11), craft (alchemy) +1 rank (5), disable device +1 rank (5)

Hide from dragons 1/day

9th
Hoardstealer 3
+5
+2
+6
+5
Hide +1 rank (12), move silently +1 rank (12), craft (armorsmithing) +1 rank (12), use magic device +1 rank (12), search +1 rank (12), open lock +1 rank (5), Clever Improviser skill trick
Landlord
Trap sense +2, deep pockets

10th
Hoardstealer 4
+6/+1
+2
+7
+5
Hide +1 rank (13), move silently +1 rank (13), craft (armorsmithing) +1 rank (13), use magic device +1 rank (13), search +1 rank (13), know (arcana) +1 rank (3), craft (alchemy) +.5 ranks (5.5)

Treasure dowsing 1/day

11th
Hoardstealer 5
+6/+1
+2
+7
+5
Hide +1 rank (14), move silently +1 rank (14), craft (armorsmithing) +1 rank (14), use magic device +1 rank (14), search +1 rank (14), know (arcana) +1 rank (4), craft (alchemy) +.5 ranks (6)

Darkvision +60 ft.

12th
Hoardstealer 6
+7/+2
+3
+8
+6
Hide +1 rank (15), move silently +1 rank (15), craft (armorsmithing) +1 rank (15), use magic device +1 rank (15), search +1 rank (15), craft (alchemy) +1.5 ranks (7.5)
Obtain Familiar
Trap sense +4, hide from dragons 2/day

13th
Hoardstealer 7
+8/+3
+3
+8
+6
Hide +1 rank (16), move silently +1 rank (16), craft (armorsmithing) +1 rank (16), use magic device +1 rank (16), search +1 rank (16), craft (alchemy) +1.5 ranks (9)

Treasure dowsing 2/day

14th
Hoardstealer 8
+9/+4
+3
+9
+6
Hide +1 rank (17), move silently +1 rank (17), craft (armorsmithing) +1 rank (17), use magic device +1 rank (17), search +1 rank (17), craft (alchemy) +1.5 ranks (10.5)

Skill mastery (use magic device, search, disable device, hide, move silently, forgery, appraise, open lock)

15th
Hoardstealer 9
+9/+4
+4
+9
+7
Hide +1 rank (18), move silently +1 rank (18), craft (armorsmithing) +1 rank (18), use magic device +1 rank (18), search +1 rank (18), craft (alchemy) +1.5 ranks (12)
Improved Familiar
Darkvision +90 ft., trap sense +6

16th
Hoardstealer 10
+10/+5
+4
+10
+7
Hide +1 rank (19), move silently +1 rank (19), craft (armorsmithing) +1 rank (19), use magic device +1 rank (19), search +1 rank (19), craft (alchemy) +2 ranks (14)

Treasure dowsing 3/day, hide from dragons 3/day

17th
Artificer 6
+11/+6/+1
+5
+11
+8
Hide +1 rank (20), move silently +1 rank (20), craft (armorsmithing) +1 rank (20), use magic device +1 rank (20), search +1 rank (20), craft (alchemy) +3 ranks (17)
Craft WandB
Craft Wand

18th
Artificer 7
+12/+7/+2
+5
+11
+8
Hide +1 rank (21), move silently +1 rank (21), craft (armorsmithing) +1 rank (21), use magic device +1 rank (21), search +1 rank (21), craft (alchemy) +3 ranks (20)
Dimensional Jaunt
Metamagic spell trigger

19th
Artificer 8
+13/+8/+3
+5
+11
+9
Hide +1 rank (22), move silently +1 rank (22), craft (armorsmithing) +1 rank (22), use magic device +1 rank (22), search +1 rank (22), craft (alchemy) +2 ranks (22), spellcraft +1 rank (1)
Rapid InfusionB
Bonus feat

20th
Artificer 9
+13/+8/+3
+6
+12
+9
Hide +1 rank (23), move silently +1 rank (23), craft (armorsmithing) +1 rank (23), use magic device +1 rank (23), search +1 rank (23), craft (alchemy) +1 rank (23), autohypnosis +1 rank (1)
Craft RodB
Craft Rod

32-Point Buy (before racial mods): Str 8/Dex 12/Con 12/Int 18/Wis 10/Cha 14
(after racial mods): Str 6/Dex 14/Con 12/Int 18/Wis 8/Cha 12
Lvl 4: Str 6/Dex 14/Con 12/Int 19/Wis 8/Cha 12
Lvl 8: Str 6/Dex 14/Con 12/Int 20/Wis 8/Cha 12
Level 12: Str 6/Dex 14/Con 12/Int 21/Wis 8/Cha 12
Level 16: Str 6/Dex 14/Con 12/Int 22/Wis 8/Cha 12
Level 20: Str 6/Dex 14/Con 12/Int 23/Wis 8/Cha 12

Hoardstealer Spells per Day

Level
1st
2nd
3rd
4th

6th
0
-
-
-

7th
1
-
-
-

8th
1
0
-
-

9th
1
0
-
-

10th
1
1
-
-

11th
1
1
0
-

12th
1
1
1
-

13th
2
1
1
0

14th
2
1
1
1

15th
2
2
1
1

16th
2
2
2
1

Infusions per Day

Level
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th

1st
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
2
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
3
-
-
-
-
-

4th
3
1
-
-
-
-

5th
3
2
-
-
-
-

6th
3
2
-
-
-
-

7th
3
2
-
-
-
-

8th
3
2
-
-
-
-

9th
3
3
1
-
-
-

10th
3
3
1
-
-
-

11th
3
3
1
-
-
-

12th
3
3
1
-
-
-

13th
3
3
1
-
-
-

14th
3
3
1
-
-
-

15th
3
3
1
-
-
-

16th
3
3
1
-
-
-

17th
3
3
2
-
-
-

18th
3
3
2
-
-
-

19th
3
3
3
1
-
-

20th
3
3
3
2
-
-

In general, despite being an artificer, the Professor spends very little time crafting. He primarily uses his infusions, especially spell-storing item, to create useful magic items on demand rather than crafting things in advance. However, he does have the ability to craft, letting him boost the strength of his party significantly or create useful wands and scrolls as necessary. This is not part of his normal modus operandi, and for the most part he functions fine without crafting at all, but it is an option he has for campaigns with significant periods of downtime.

There are, however, two exceptions: his walking stick/weapon familiar and his stronghold.

The Sonic Walking Stick
The Professor carries his weapon familiar, a small-sized heavy mace with an adamantine head, with him at all times, using it primarily as a walking stick and general tool.

As a weapon familiar (see the warforged artificer substitution level found on Races of Eberron p130), the heavy mace is a Chaotic Good intelligent item with an Intelligence and Charisma of 14 and Wisdom of 10. It provides the Professor with a +3 bonus on Use Magic Device checks and a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves. It can communicate telepathically with the Professor and also speaks Common, Draconic and Dwarven.

The Professor has also personally augmented this walking stick in a couple of key ways to better serve him as a tool. He has given it the warning weapon enhancement from the MIC, meaning it provides him a +5 insight bonus to his initiative whenever it is held, and also enchanted it with the following command word abilities (costs to the Professor in GP and XP follow parenthetically):

Mage hand (CL 5) at will (2250gp, 180 xp)
No light (CL 5) 3/day (1350gp, 108 xp)
Guidance of the avatar (CL 3) 3/day (3240gp, 259xp)

The end result is that the Professor’s walking stick can be used to sunder and destroy items despite his low strength thanks to its ability to bypass hardness, warns him of danger, assists him in activating magic items, lets him move small objects from up to 50 feet away, allows him to suppress light in an area and provides him with the guidance necessary to succeed on many complicated tasks. This is his omni-tool, used to manipulate things from afar, disable traps, aid in sneaking, manipulate magical items and far, far more.

The total costs (including for adamantine and the base enhancements) fall well within the Professor’s wealth by level thanks to his ability to craft them himself.

The Stronghold

The Professor travels in a magical fortress, a stronghold he has assisted in building. This follows the rules for a mobile stronghold found in the Stronghold Builder’s Guide. The Professor’s fortress is a single stronghold space (per the guide, this is essentially one room with a maximum size of 20’x20’x10’), the size of a small cottage.

As each level progresses, the Professor uses the funds granted from his Landlord feat to make improvements on the stronghold. Remember that in addition to the funds granted at each level, Landlord also provides matching funds for any improvements beyond what is granted by the feat, meaning the Professor can make improvements beyond what the provided funds allow for at essentially half-price. The Professor can also receive some discounts by performing some spellcasting services himself.

Without dipping significantly into his own WBL or abusing the cost reduction of providing spellcasting himself, and primarily working off of what is provided via the Landlord feat, the Professor provides the following augmentations to his stronghold:

LEVEL 9 (25k): Basic construction. A fancy smithy (3000gp), surrounded by three-foot hewn stone (6000gp), three feet of packed earth (250gp) and three-inch iron (6000gp) walls, lined with lead (1000gp). He adds an iron door with an amazing lock (650gp). Improved arcane lock only adds another 205gp but significantly strengthens things. An engraved circle of protection against evil (7500gp) permanently provides the stronghold with the effects of a magic circle against evil.
LEVEL 10 (25k): The stronghold becomes mobile with the addition of the crawling mobility feature (1000gp) at incredible speed (25000gp), allowing the stronghold to move at a rate of 10 miles/hour. This puts us slightly over the amount granted by Landlord at this level, requiring the Professor to use 500gp of his own WBL.
LEVEL 11 (25k): Magically treating the walls of the stronghold doubles their hardness and HP (12000gp), while ethereal solid blocks any ethereal intrusion (12000gp).
LEVEL 12 (25k): Flying (15000gp) and burrowing (10000gp) are the next additions.
LEVEL 13 (50k): The Professor’s stronghold can now greater teleport once per day (50000gp).
LEVEL 14 (50k): Plane shift 1/day (25000gp) lets the Professor visit other planes, while the Veil of Obscurity (25000gp) allows it to be disguised as though by a mirage arcana spell.
LEVEL 15 (50k): Magically treated adamantine walls (42000gp) get added onto the outside of the stronghold. A hall of speech (4000gp) means that the Professor can understand any written or spoken language inside his stronghold, while a trio of invisible helpers (4500gp) provide him with help and support in his smith.
LEVEL 16 (50k): The stronghold can greater teleport one additional time each day.
LEVEL 17 (100k): Two prismatic screens (60000gp each) cover the front and rear of the stronghold with a prismatic wall that refreshes every 24 hours if destroyed. (This requires an additional 10k gp fromthe Professor’s WBL.)
LEVEL 18 (100k): And two more prismatic screens cover the other two faces of the stronghold.
LEVEL 19 (100k): Another prismatic screen for the ceiling (60000gp), and six freestanding walls of force (4k each) seal in the stronghold in a cube of force; as the Professor has at-will teleportation by now, he no longer needs doors. A pool of scrying (12000gp) allows the Professor to scry on things from afar.
LEVEL 20 (200k): Improved magic warding (50000gp) gives the Professor and any other occupants SR32. Solid fog veil (22500gp) allows the Professor to surround his stronghold with a solid fog. Another use of plane shift (25000gp) and greater teleport (50000gp) finishes things up.

First, let's get this out of the way: despite being inspired by the Doctor and involving some oft-maligned build aspects like artificer, this is not a joke build. The Professor is designed to be the ultimate in party support, utility and buffing, capable of getting into (and out of) most dungeons, carrying the party with his mobile stronghold and carting out treasure hoards. He works well in both small groups and large ones, designed to always have the right tool up his sleeve for just about any occasion.

The Professor begins as a fairly roguish character, focusing on stealth, infiltration and trapfinding (the ability so nice he gets it thrice!). His small size and above-average Dexterity alongside Darkstalker gives him great stealth for the level, made better by utility from things like artificer’s skill enhancement.

A note on artificer: the Professor is not intended to be your typical crafting artificer, insisting on days of downtime to constantly craft. While there are a few things he will craft himself (most notably his weapon familiar, a heavy mace he uses as a walking stick), his artificer levels are mostly focused on skills and buffing via infusions. At low levels, things like personal weapon augmentation, magic vestment, lesser construct essence and skill enhancement will be some of his best early options, alongside the excellent utility of component-free identify.

His largest power jump at the early levels comes at level 6, when he creates his weapon familiar, a heavy mace he uses as his walking stick. As he spends very little time actually crafting, retain essence is easy to give up. This is a fantastic tool in general, an intelligent item that speaks to him telepathically and does absolutely everything from manipulating traps from afar to creating pockets of darkness to hide in to boosting his skills to incredible levels. It also provides him a significant boost to his UMD checks, which means that alongside skill enhancement he can start hitting the DCs necessary to use spell-storing item. This provides absolutely outrageous flexibility, letting him create a single-use wand of any low level spell from any list with only a minute of preparation. Let that sink in for a bit. This isn’t Schroedinger’s Artificer, who happens to have the right scroll or wand prepared in advance at the right time. The Professor uses this infusion to grant access to the spells he need, when he needs them. Now here is where the real fun comes in: also at level 6, the Professor gets access to third level infusions. Go ahead and look at metamagic item off of that list. The Professor can use this to create just about any low level buff he wants and then persist it via metamagic item.

So, this is what we can expect from the Professor’s low levels: excellent scouting and manipulation, good party buffing (including low level persistomancy) and the ability to bring up almost any low level spell on demand.

With the early levels of hoardstealer, the Professor has gotten a few nice abilities: spells to help divine or feed into his Wand Bonding feat, a nice (if a bit niche) SLA, the ability to dowse for treasure and the ability to create extradimensional pockets. Yes, that’s right, his pockets are bigger on the inside. Note that as a small-sized construct, the Professor can actually enter these spaces himself once they are large enough, using them as hiding spaces or to create mini-rooms within the stronghold he is creating. (Such as, for example, turning a small chest into a swimming pool.) His darkvision is also a great little bonus, letting him use pockets of natural darkness (which he can create using his weapon familiar) offensively: he can see in them just fine, but creatures with darkvision can’t see him in return, thanks to Darkstalker.

That stronghold finally becomes ready at level 9, when he takes the Landlord feat. Well, what did you think he was raiding dragon hoards for? And how else did you expect him to haul all of that treasure away? Landlord both provides significant funds toward the building of a stronghold, and also matches additional funds that the Professor spends to further augment the space. While strongholds are usually so expensive (and, you know, stationary) that this isn’t a big deal, the Professor is specifically using the rules on p47 of the Stronghold Builder’s Guide for mobile strongholds, and creating a small stronghold the size of a single stronghold space. This actually means that many of the more expensive augmentations of strongholds become surprisingly affordable. Eventually, this will be a nigh-indestructable mini-fortress capable of moving, teleporting and plane shifting as needed, but right from the get-go it’s a great way for the party to get around.

In the mid-levels, there are a few big abilities that come online. At level 12 the Professor picks up a raven familiar, Kitt Darkfeather. Familiars are great for everyone, especially scouts, but they’re even better for artificers, since this gives you both shared spells and a second source of actions with the ability to activate items. At level 14, hoardstealer’s skill mastery comes online, meaning (among other things) that the Professor autosucceeds on all relevant UMD checks, even the high-DC spell-storing item uses. And at level 15, Kitt gets upgraded to Kaynein: a pseudodragon. Pseudodragons are a lot of fun, and Kaynein in particular is useful here, able to serve as the navigation system for the Professor’s stronghold. Kaynein can sit atop the stronghold, remaining hidden (tiny size, a racial bonus to hide and the Professor’s skill ranks mean it’s quite good at this) and observing things with blindsense, while all the while telepathically communicating with the Professor.

Once he finishes with hoardstealer, the Professor returns to artificer. Right off the bat he can start creating spell-storing items of third and fourth level spells. This means access to everything from planar binding (yes, the full version, thanks demonologist!) to summon giants (ordinarily a level 8 spell, thanks disciple of Thrym!), and a wealth of spells to persist. This gets even better when the Professor gets concurrent infusions, letting him get three uses of spell-storing item in one go, without using those infusion slots. Even better, it’s a valid target for Rapid Infusion, meaning he can now do this in a single round. The Professor also can now use his hoardstealer spells to give him access to at-will teleportation thanks to the Dimensional Jaunt feat (especially handy once he encases his stronghold in a cube made of walls of force).

To summarize the Professor’s abilities:

Excellent stealth and scouting skills.
The ability to create single-use wands on demand of any spell, from any list.
The ability to persist spells cast from items (including the above) without requiring additional charges.
The ability to use his Hoardstealer spells to activate wands without consuming their charges.
At-will short range teleportation.
An intelligent walking stick that allows the Professor to manipulate items from afar, succeed on most skill checks or create pockets of darkness (which the Professor can see in thanks to his Darkvision, while remaining invisible to other foes thanks to Darkstalker).
A powerful mobile stronghold with strong defenses that can move quickly and eventually fly, burrow, teleport, plane shift and scry.
A telepathically linked pseudodragon familiar that assists him in activating items or scouting.
The ability to create extradimensional pocket spaces inside almost anything that allow him to cart away huge treasure hoards despite his small size and low Strength and, as he is a construct, even utilize as hiding spaces.
General party support thanks to artificer abilities and the mobile stronghold, which is a great way to let the party move around in style.

The Professor stopped, held up one small hand. “Wait, don’t move.”

“What’s wrong?”

“Oh, nothing,” he said. “Well... almost certainly nothing. Or maybe something very little. Well... little is relative. Let’s say, in the grand scheme of things, something very small and probably inconsequential. Well, maybe not inconsequential to you or me. Alright, maybe it’s something just the teensiest bit fatal. Although, well, are there degrees of fatal? I mean that’s an interesting question. Can something be—”

“Professor!”

“Oh, right fatal,” he said. He lifted his walking stick, peered across the top, pointed it all around. “Hm,” he muttered. “Alright, just a moment… gotcha. Just move six, no, six and a half feet to the left. No, my left. Slowly. Perfect.” He rapped the metal head of the stick hard against the wall. Something crunched, crumbled. A whistling sound filled the air, followed by a clattering as a handful of bolts shot across the corridor and rebounded off the far wall. “See?” he said. “Hardly fatal at all. Although… when I see a big dangerous trap like that, it makes me wonder what it’s protecting.”

The Professor’s mechanical eyes shuttered, and he rotated slowly on the spot, pivoting on his walking stick. Halfway through his quiet circle, the eyes flew open. “That way,” he said, pointing his walking stick at the ground below him.

“What’s that way?” Astrid asked.

“Gold.” He grinned. “A big, glittering, shiny pile of gold. Possibly a dragon, too. Can’t be sure. But definitely gold. And a big, glittering, shiny pile of gold has my name written all over it. Or, well... not yet. But give me time. And an inkpot.”

"Bad time to forget your walking stick, Professor," Astrid panted, staring at the locked door in front of them.

"Forgot?" The Professor reached deep into his pocket, fumbled, pulled. From his small pocket first the head, then long body of his walking stick emerged. "I never forgot my walking stick. It wouldn't let me."

"How... how did you fit that in your pocket?"

The Professor shrugged. "It's bigger on the inside."

Why Hoardstealer? While admittedly a lot of the inspiration from this build grew out of the “it’s bigger on the inside” concept of extradimensional spaces, the class actually provides everything the build needs to come together.

First, regarding entry: can the Professor contribute meaningfully to the raid of a dragon hoard worth 5000gp? Let's look at the figures. Before items are taken into effect, the Professor should have a hide check of +15 at ECL 6, boosted to +19 by skill enhancement and able to bypass the dragon's blindsight thanks to Darkstalker. If this is insufficient (depending on the age of the dragon, it might be), he can use his infusions to give his armor plating the shadow and silent moves enhancements for another +5 to hide and MS. He can also hand out the relevant energy resistance to his whole party, boost weapons with bane enhancements and more. These alone should let him participate meaningfully without stealing the show. And if he has to steal the show? Well, a scroll of shivering touch is a mere trifle for him to create by ECL 6.....

Now, onto the class features:

Spells: On the surface, what could Hoardstealer’s strangely limited spellcasting possibly offer a spell storing item-focused artificer? Quite a lot, it turns out. As flexible as artificer infusions are, they come with a lot of limitations. Hoardstealer has arcane Int-based casting from a really solid list, and while all of its spells could be duplicated by spell storing item, they still provide excellent utility and let the Professor focus his spell storing item shenanigans on buffing and utility. In particular, the divination focused spells are key for the Professor: arcane eye, arcane sight, clairaudience/clairvoyance, detect magic and locate object are all essential spells that allow the Professor to monitor things from within his stronghold or locate key items as he adventures.

Most important of all, however, is that spellcasting allows him to qualify for several abilities that would otherwise be out of reach for the artificer. Most significant among these are Obtain Familiar and Improved Familiar, as this gives him access to a familiar, which not only provides additional actions and can activate magical items (invaluable for an artificer), but which eventually also serves as the navigation system for his mobile fortress. He also uses these spells to qualify for Dimensional Jaunt, giving him at-will teleportation that combines well with spells that allow him to see from afar such as arcane eye and clairvoyance. Finally, he can use these spell slots by feeding them into his Wand Bonding ability, allowing him to not only avoid expending charges but also increase the caster level of said abilities.

(Note: ASF does apply, as the Professor does have armor plating despite being a scout. The twilight enhancement is his friend.)

Darkvision: The Professor above all else focuses on scouting and mobility, especially searching. You can’t search if you can’t see, and 90’ darkvision is rather good. The Professor also uses this abilities offensively, by suppressing light sources via no light. The Professor’s darkvision lets him function freely in such areas, while his own Darkstalker feat means that he retains concealment and the ability to hide from enemies with darkvision.

Trap sense: Fast trap sense advancement is great for any scout. The Professor loves to seemingly blunder through trapped areas, disabling things as he goes.

Deep pockets: Any container can now become an extradimensional storage with 100 cubic feet of space. This ability was actually the original inspiration for this build (it’s bigger on the inside!). In addition to the obvious uses, the Professor creates these extradimensional spaces in small storage containers within his stronghold, allowing him to create small rooms on a whim that, as a small-sized construct, he can enter freely.

Treasure dowsing: With over three times the range of the rod and no easy way to block this effect (unlike similar detection spells this is not blocked by physical barriers such as a foot of stone or a lining of lead), the Professor can use this ability to pinpoint treasure hoards used to fund his stronghold. However, this does not merely find gold (which he can find with the underrated gold finder (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030825a) spell - with his 8 ranks in Appraise and his Int, he autmoatically succeeds on the DC 15 Appraise check the spell requires). No, unlike gold finder, treasure dowsing works on any metal or mineral, can be used from within his lead-lined stronghold, and can allow him to pinpoint, for example, the location of all steel within ten feet per Hoardstealer level, letting him pinpoint foes while remaining safely within his stronghold.

Skill mastery: Perhaps most important after the spellcasting, skill mastery is a fantastic ability that guarantees the Professor will succeed on all of his many UMD checks from level 14 on, and also makes him significantly more reliable at trapfinding, detection and stealth.

The most relevant sources for the Professor are the Stronghold Builder's Guide and the Eberron books.

In addition to being where you will find the Landlord feat, Stronghold Builder's Guide is also where all of the rules for stronghold construction and associated costs are detailed.

Infusions are all found in the Eberron Campaign Setting and Magic of Eberron, as is Rapid Infusion.

Artificer is also found in ECS, with the warforged substitution levels and weapon familiar rules located in Races of Eberron. The warforged scout itself can be found in Monster Manual 3. Wand Bonding is from City of Stormreach (it's a pain to find, because the book is laid out oddly, but it's there - check page 119!).

Other sources are as follows:

SRD: Rogue class, Improved Familiar feat, crafting feats, Extend Spell feat, pseudodragon, autohypnosis skill.
Draconomicon: Hoardstealer class.
Lords of Madness: Darkstalker feat.
Complete Arcane: Persistent Spell, Obtain Familiar feats.
Complete Mage: Dimensional Jaunt feat.
Complete Scoundrel: Clever Improviser skill trick.
Book of Vile Darkness: No light spell.
Online spells: guidance of the avatar (http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a) and gold finder (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030825a).

“This is one corner… of one country, in one continent, on one world that’s a corner of one plane that’s a corner of one multiverse that is forever growing and shrinking and creating and destroying and never remaining the same for a single millisecond. And there is so much, so much to see...”

Heliomance

2018-07-04, 07:04 AM

Entry number 8

Stub: True Neutral Naenhoon Illumian (to necropolitan to spellstiched necropolitan) spellthief 1/dread necromancer 1/rainbow servant 10/uncanny trickster 2/hordestealer 6
Stats
Str 8 con 8 dex 12 wis 10 int 18 cha 16 32 pb. Increase wis at 4 8 12, cha at 16 20

Sharing is caring. In Soviet Russia.
Backstory

Paityr was born on the streets, or at least he assumed he was. Someone left him on the doorstep of a library, sigils circling his head. The librarians were rather unsure what to do with him so they gave him to a church, who kept him more or less sequestered in a tiny cell as he grew. He lived in abject poverty while he watched the priests grow fat on their largess. No one knew what the symbols meant and thought him cursed. He didn’t either, and he might have agreed with them if he had cared.
He took to the tomes the churched owned with a feverish intensity, devouring the written word. He was reading before he walked if you believed the clerics. At a very early age he would sneak out and sneak into the library, and he went to their modest stacks in no time. His memory was excellent if his body was frail, and soon he was left alone with nothing to take his time. He spent his time on the streets and learned the value of gold, and more importantly the value of magic. And how to get it for himself, and anyone else who deserved it.
With his keen eye he quickly saw that even most precious gems were worth a fraction of a simple bit of magic. A successful craftsman might earn a small handful of gold in a year, but a lone potion of the most moderate magic easily tripled that. And was much easier to hide. Magic was the key to wealth. It was no coincidence he never saw a poor wizard. It wasn’t right. It wasn’t fair. Why couldn’t everyone enjoy the comforts of wealth. It seemed so easy.
He tried talking to the other urchins and pickpockets, but most were superstitious of his sigils. Even though he could with effort suppress them, they were a distraction. No one would talk to him, or try to listen. No matter how much wealth he spread around. It was like that tiny cell at the church. He would have to make what changes he could. And he really wanted someone to talk to about it.
Then one day he decided to attempt to rob an apprentice wizard, and something marvelous happened. He not only managed to knock him out and steal some potions, he somehow stole magic. It wasn’t much, just a little dart of energy, but he took it and used it. The world seemed very much open to possibility now. He would have told someone how great it was, but unfortunately, no one wanted to talk to him. And no one seemed to believe them when he could get someone, despite gold or silver changing hands. He really needed someone else to talk to.
He developed his special brand of thievery a bit, and poured his funds, that he didn’t spread around, into books. Knowledge was one of his only solaces. He read anything he could find, especially about magic. One lucky find from a travelling peddler was a book describing the results of necromancy. The book told of the awfulness of it all, but Paityr thought, doesn’t seem so bad. So no one liked necromancers. Well no one liked him, and drudge work being able to be done indefinitely by a free worker could only enrich everyones lives. As long as you were responsible, it was like any other knowledge; a power, a tool, but the use determined its moral or ethical value. It also seemed pretty easy if he put his mind too it.

After a significant amount of trial and error, he got the knack of it. You just had to think about it in the right way, then follow your gut. Or your head. Or the trail of guts in the alley, you could probably do something with that. He spent his time hanging around graveyards and crypts, testing his newfound powers out. He had many close calls, but finally he managed to make a friend. He called him Ivan.
Ivan was a good listener. Sure he smelled a bit, and parts of him had a habit of falling off, but Paityr could talk to Ivan about anything. He groaned a bit, but that was ok. He was content to stay in the sewer most of the time, and it helped mask the smell. A bit.
He would get feisty every few days, but a bit of magic, a bit of personality, and he stayed a good loyal friend. He started experimenting with how much he could have Ivan do to help people, in secret because they wouldn’t understand that he was more or less harmless as long as he could keep a tight leash metaphorically on him. The physical leash didn’t work, tended to cut through bits and Ivan would become unleashed. And the leash got all gooey.
The townsfolk eventually found out, because sewers don’t stink as much to some, and they ran him and ivan out of town. Paityr was upset. Why couldn’t they see? Ivan was harmless. He didn’t even eat, as long as he kept the leash on. That business with Miss Davis’s cat was a total accident. No one likes being scratched, and Paityr was a bit late with the magic. It happens.
So him and Ivan, slightly torched and full of pitchfork holes, just kept moving away. He did what he could to help those he found in his travels. A bit of drudgery for a place to stay for a night or three, an occasionally bit of magic or money stolen from those who could afford it, spread around the community. Besides, he liked to get a new book every now and again, and it didn’t seem right to steal them. Thye written word was sacred. He did not know why he felt that way, but he did.
He found an old tome telling of a temple of fantastic beasts somewhere in the jungles, with standards different from most people and a different worldview, and decided why not. Ivan unfortunately didn’t make it, some jungle thing decided to snack on him, but he was a good friend while it lasted. He would have to find another Ivan. He decided it would always be Ivan. A good way to remember a friend.
A few months, and several Ivans later, including very skinny and boney Ivan the once-crocodile, and Paityr lacking in any Ivan (skinny boney Ivan the once-crocodile happened to threaten some big nasty river thing, Paityr was sure skinny boney Ivan would have wanted him to go on and find another Ivan. He was that kind of chap.) , he found the temple. They lived communally and respectfull which was nice.
They told him of his heritige, and about his sigils and what they meant. It would have been nice ten years ago but Paityr had figured most of that out already. Besides he just felt like Paityr. Always had. So no big deal.
The beautiful serpents listened calmly to his tale, and took pity on him, but forbid any Ivaning while he lived and worked there, and learned from them. Paityrs ideas were not necessarily bad, but his implementation needed work. He didn’t understand what it was like to be undead and all that entailed, so he couldn’t properly see the error of his ways.
Well, thought Paityr, maybe I can do something about that. He was scared at first, death is always scary, but he thought it might be a good idea. Besides, he would like to understand his friend Ivan better. Dying was pretty bad, but the travelling lizard who helped him said he would now never have to worry about it again. His weak body didn’t matter, and he could read and study more, so he could keep on learning, instead of doing pesky things like eating and sleeping.
The Coatls were shocked of course, but they admitted their phrasing might have been wrong, and he was still a decent enough guy. He studied with them a while longer, and they opened his mind to a wide variety of different ways of using his magical talent.

With his increased time and knowledge, he thought back to the problem of the world. That distinct lack of finanical freedom for one and all, was troubling. He understood that not everyone could survive the world as undead, which would be bad, but there had to be a way. Who has a bunch of magic and money to spread around. Then a thought hit him. Dragons do.
They had plenty, and didn’t need near as much as they had, so why not redistribute all of that wealth around?

The coatls didn’t like that idea, and if he were to pursue that path, he would not be welcome anymore in their temple. It was a hard decision, they listened almost as good as an Ivan, but their life was not for him. He wanted to help people more, bring that equality to all. He stayed for a little bit saying he would reconsider, but really he just needed a bit of prep time. He contacted various powers, used a fair bit of magic, and managed to locate a nice little horde not too far from the jungle temple he was in. He called a few allies, wished the coatl’s well, and divined his way to the nice and empty cave of a local green dragon. He managed to make a few ivans, including one from the body of the one who ate skinny boney Ivan the once-crocodile. He thought skinny boney Ivan the once-crocodile would like that. His allies balked a bit, but they had agreed to assist in recovery so they couldn’t back out now. Besides, Ivan’s are strong, so it was a nice convienent way to transport their soon to be riches.

His magic lead him seamlessly past all the barriers and traps that the place had, and he got a nice sizable bit of treasure. HIs allies departed, after they had their cut, which was only fair. He took the rest, had it delivered in part to the coatls as a thank you. He took a brief vacation around some of the nicer planes of existence as a reward for himself and his Ivans, then decided he might have found a way to fix the world. There are a lot of dragons, and as long as he didn’t have an Ivan deliver it, he thought it would be a great way to help a lot of people. The Ivans seemed to agree.

He gave himself a little more magic, and decided it was a good time to get a few more allies, more permanent though. He had the Ivans and a few less than reputable allies he met during his travels help secure him a few reasonably power mortals, and he offered them great power and a chance to better the world. Enough ivans made that a very reasonable offer, so they joined up. He called them Igors. He had them help him better the world, one dragon horde at a time. They actually talked back! It was nice to have friends.

Level by level table

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Spellthief 1
0
-1
+1
+2
Appraise 4, Concentration 4, Disable Device 4, Escape Artist 4, Hide 4, Knowledge Arcana 4, Move Silently 4, Open Lock 4, Search 4, Use Magic Device 4
Heighten Spell
Naen Sigil, Steal spell 0 or 1st, Trapfinding, Sneak Attack +1d6

2nd
Dread Necromancer 1
+0
-1
+0
+4
Appraise 4.5, Concentration 5, Disable Device 4, Escape Artist 4, Hide 5, Knowledge Arcana 5, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 4, Search 4.5, Use Magic Device 4
-
Hoon Sigil, Naenhoon word, Rebuke Undead, Charnal touch

3rd
Rainbow Servant 1
+0
-1
+6
+2
Collector of Stories, Appraise 4.5, Concentration 6, Disable Device 4, Escape Artist 4, Hide 4, Knowledge Arcana 5, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 4, Search 4.5, Spellcraft 3, Use Magic Device 4
Master Spellthief
Detect evil (sp), Good Domain(good caster level +1)

4th
Rainbow Servant 2
+1
-1
+0
+7
Collector of Stories, Appraise 5, Concentration 7, Disable Device 4, Escape Artist 4, Hide 5, Knowledge Arcana 5, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 4, Search 5, Spellcraft 6, Use Magic Device 4
-
Wis +1

5th
Rainbow Servant 3
+1
+1
+2
+7
Collector of Stories, Appraise 5.5, Concentration 8, Disable Device 4, Escape Artist 4, Hide 5.5, Knowledge Arcana 5, Move Silently 5.5, Open Lock 4, Search 5.5, Spellcraft 7, Use Magic Device 4
-
Ritual of crucimigration, Undead type goodies, Turn Resistance +2, Resist control, Unnatural Resilience

6th
Rainbow Servant 4
+2
+1
+2
+8
Collector of Stories, Appraise 6, Concentration 9, Disable Device 4, Escape Artist 4, Hide 6, Knowledge Arcana 5, Move Silently 6, Open Lock 4, Search 6, Spellcraft 8, Use Magic Device 4
Extend Spell
Extra Domain (Air), grow wings

7th
Rainbow Servant 5
+2
+1
+2
+8
Collector of Stories, Appraise 6.5, Concentration 10, Disable Device 4, Escape Artist 4, Hide 6.5, Knowledge Arcana 5, Move Silently 6.5, Open Lock 4, Search 6.5, Spellcraft 9, Use Magic Device 4
-
-

8th
Rainbow Servant 6
+3
+2
+3
+10
Collector of Stories, Appraise 7, Concentration 11, Disable Device 4, Escape Artist 4, Hide 7, Knowledge Arcana 5, Move Silently 7, Open Lock 4, Search 6.5, Spellcraft 11, Use Magic Device 4
-
Wisdom +1

9th
Rainbow Servant 7
+3
+2
+3
+10
Collector of Stories, Swift concentration, Magical Appraisal,Appraise 7, Concentration 12, Disable Device 4, Escape Artist 4, Hide 7, Knowledge Arcana 5, Move Silently 7, Open Lock 4, Search 6.5, Spellcraft 12, Use Magic Device 4
Persist Spell, Law devotion
Detect Chaos, Extra Domain Law traded for Law Devotion,

10th
Rainbow Servant 8
+4
+2
+3
+11
[td]Collector of Stories, Swift concentration, Magical Appraisal,Clever ImprovisorAppraise 7, Concentration 12, Disable Device 5, Escape Artist 4, Hide 7, Knowledge Arcana 5, Move Silently 7, Open Lock 5, Search 6.5, Spellcraft 12, Use Magic Device 4
-
-

11th
Rainbow Servant 9
+4
+3
+4
+11
Collector of Stories, Swift concentration, Magical Appraisal,Clever Improvisor, Appraise 8, Concentration 12, Disable Device 5, Escape Artist 4, Hide 8, Knowledge Arcana 5, Move Silently 8, Open Lock 5, Search 6.5, Spellcraft 12, Use Magic Device 4
-
-

12th
Rainbow Servant 10
+5
+3
+4
+12
Collector of Stories, Swift concentration, Magical Appraisal,Clever Improvisor, Appraise 8, Concentration 13, Disable Device 5, Escape Artist 4, Hide 8, Knowledge Arcana 5, Move Silently 8, Open Lock 5, Search 8, Spellcraft 14, Use Magic Device 4
Divine Metamagic: Persist
Cleric Spell access, detect thought (sp), Wisdom +1

13th
Uncanny trickster 1
+5
+3
+6
+11
Collector of Stories, Swift concentration, Magical Appraisal,Clever Improvisor,Conceal Spellcasting, Appraise 8, Concentration 13, Disable Device 5, Escape Artist 4, Hide 8, Knowledge Arcana 5, Move Silently 8, Open Lock 5, Search 8, Sleight of Hand 5[b], Spellcraft 14, [b]Use Magic Device 11
Planar touchstone: Catelouges of Enlightenment (extra turning from undeath domain)
Bonus trick Conceal spellcasting, favored trick conceal spellcasting,

14th
Uncanny Trickster 2
+6
+3
+7
+12
Collector of Stories, Swift concentration, Magical Appraisal,Clever Improvisor,Conceal Spellcasting, False Theurgy, Appraise 8, Concentration 13, Diplomacy 8, Disable Device 5, Escape Artist 4, Hide 8, Knowledge Arcana 5, Move Silently 8, Open Lock 5, Search 8, Sleight of Hand 8, Spellcraft 14, Use Magic Device 12
-
Advance dread necromancer class, Bonus trick false theurgy, favored trick false theurgy

15th
Hordestealer 1
+6
+5
+11
+17
Collector of Stories, Swift concentration, Magical Appraisal,Clever Improvisor,Conceal Spellcasting, False Theurgy, Appraise 8, Bluff 8 , Concentration 13, Diplomacy 8, Disable Device 5, Escape Artist 4, Hide 8, Knowledge Arcana 5, Move Silently 8, Open Lock 5, Search 8, Sleight of Hand 8, Spellcraft 14, Use Magic Device 14
Extra Spell: Animate Dread Warrior
Darkvision +30 ft (90 total), trapfinding (again), Spellstiched template, 13 (or more) SR, dr 5 magic and silver, +2 turn resistance, +2 profane all saves

16th
Hordestealer 2
+7
+5
+12
+17
Collector of Stories, Swift concentration, Magical Appraisal,Clever Improvisor,Conceal Spellcasting, False Theurgy, Appraise 8, [b] Bluff 10 , Concentration 15, Diplomacy 10, Disable Device 5, Escape Artist 4, Hide 8, Knowledge Arcana 5, Move Silently 8, Open Lock 5, Search 8, Sleight of Hand 8, Spellcraft 15, Use Magic Device 14
-
Hide from Dragons 1x/day, +1 Cha

17th
Hordestealer 3
+8
+6
+12
+17
Collector of Stories, Swift concentration, Magical Appraisal,Clever Improvisor,Conceal Spellcasting, False Theurgy, Appraise 8, Bluff 11 , Concentration 19, Diplomacy 14, Disable Device 5, Escape Artist 4, Hide 8, Knowledge Arcana 5, Move Silently 8, Open Lock 5, Search 8, Sleight of Hand 8, Spellcraft 16, Use Magic Device 14
-
Trap Sense +2, Deep pockets

18th
HordeStealer 4
+9
+6
+13
+17
Collector of Stories, Swift concentration, Magical Appraisal,Clever Improvisor,Conceal Spellcasting, False Theurgy, Appraise 8, Bluff 12 , Concentration 20, Diplomacy 15, Disable Device 5, Escape Artist 4, Hide 8, Knowledge Arcana 7.5, Move Silently 8, Open Lock 5, Search 8, Sleight of Hand 8, Spellcraft 17, Use Magic Device 14
free (extra turning, extra spell, versatile spellcaster, martial study:mind over body)
Treasure dowsing 1/day

19th
Hordestealer 5
+9
+6
+13
+17
Collector of Stories, Swift concentration, Magical Appraisal,Clever Improvisor,Conceal Spellcasting, False Theurgy, Appraise 8, Bluff 13 , Concentration 21, Diplomacy 16, Disable Device 5, Escape Artist 4, Hide 8, Knowledge Arcana 10, Move Silently 8, Open Lock 5, Search 8, Sleight of Hand 8, Spellcraft 18, Use Magic Device 14
-
Darkvision +60 feet(120 total)

20th
Hordestealer 6
+10
+7
+14
+18
Collector of Stories, Swift concentration, Magical Appraisal,Clever Improvisor,Conceal Spellcasting, False Theurgy, Appraise 8, Bluff 14 , Concentration 22, Diplomacy 16, Disable Device 5, Escape Artist 4, Hide 8, Knowledge Arcana 13, Move Silently 8, Open Lock 5, Search 8, Sleight of Hand 8, Spellcraft 19, Use Magic Device 14
-
Trap Sense +4, hide from dragons 2/day

Snapshots

Early Levels

Early levels (1-5): Paityr is fairly awful. 8 con is not great, but he needs the intelligence because its absolutely dreadful the skill requirement with the horrible path I have decided to embark upon. Grab the best light armor you can afford and crossbow, and a sickle because reasons, sneak attack when you can and stay away. Grab heighten spell and your Naen Sigil. As of level 2 he picks up longbow proficiency. Cause fear and summon undead 1 are your best options, if you get lucky rebuke some low level zombies or skeletons. Hoon Sigil. You are still made of paper. Turn undead also cheeses you with naenhoon into rainbow servant at level 3. Your goal is hang back still, you are still awful. Master spellthief keeps your spell caster level up, possibly way up, and keeps the ability to steal spells relevant throughout your career. Wands despite being unable to dump points into UMD like you want are ok if they are cheap, you have good cha and a reasonable chance of activating. Plus MW tools. Its not plan A or B, but might be D or E. C is usually run away.

Master Spellthief
There is a lot of debate around master spellthief. Since it adds your spellthief level to all arcane caster levels. At one nterpretation, it sets CL equal to the sum of all arcane spellcaster levels you have plus spellthief, and you can steal spell as if a spellthief of your HD. What is an arcane spell casting class is debatable since it is never adequately defined, mostly in regards to plus 1 spellcasting level PrCs. With this build, it applies definitely to dread necromancer (as a plus 1), likely to rainbow servant, even if only at level 10 since it does grant you spells (cleric list) as arcane sometimes, to uncanny trickster since that explicitly advances class features, and to hoardstealer since it also grants spells. What it works out to IMO in this build is plus 4 CL total, but in weird ways. DN casting is cl 16 ( 1+1 DN, 10+1 RS, 2+1 UT), and CL 7 for Hordestealer.

Mid Levels

Mid levels (5-10) At level 5 you undergo the ritual of crucimigration, and it helps massively. You fix your bad HP, get a bunch of immunities, and can spellstitch yourself. You need to start looking for wisdom bonus items and such as soon as you can. Its your priority after cha items. You need 19 wisdom eventually (lvl 15), and the sooner the better. You have ways around this, but not for a while. You are a level behind dread necromancer now with infinite out of combat healing for you and your pets. Command undead for zombies and skeletons, extended once you can, is the bulk of your offense. Zombie dragons are great, though finding them is hard. You can convert your downtime into power, because of how long command undead lasts. Shadows are great, and you are immune to their most notable feature, and they dominate most encounters for pretty much ever. You are still heavily reliant on minions but you can flood the field with bodies given time. Get the best wisdom and charisma items you can. Ability increases can go to either, since minions are your bread and butter, but I prioritize wisdom over charisma. You snag Extend and Persist spell, and with your naenhoon have a bit of minor DMM going on already. A trip to catalogs of enlightenment for extra turning isnt bad if you can swing it. You can go yourself later but if you want earlier power pay for a ride.

Upper Levels

Upper Levels (11-15) You finish rainbow servant and suddenly, things are amazing. The full cleric list is at your fingertips, and two levels of uncanny trickster gets you 6th level cleric and dread necro spells. That gives planar binding, planar ally, and find the path. Find the path is your key to easy hordestealing, backed by cleric divinations. You should never fight an enemy dragon unless you want to. You need wisdom 19 very soon, I suggest some efreets and an item. DMM persist is online at 12, have fun. Also you can now use all cleric wands no problem which is a nice little side benefit.

Sweet spot 1

Level Your first sweet spot is level 14. You have 6th level spontaneous cleric casting, plus 6th level dread necro, so all the goodies happen. Divine Metamagic is online, so pick your poison from the cleric list. A bit of plane shifting for catalogs of enlightenment is recommended, pick your poison. You can pick up extra turning, improved initiative, some sweet spells, or whatever. Increasing your HD cap for undead is not recommended because A. you don’t need it, and B. your rebuke level is awful. I like extra turning for more DMM but you decide. Trumpet Archons are awesome, and you can have one. Get one. Or whatever awesome thing of 12 HD or less that you want.

Sweet Spot 2

Your second sweet spot is lvl 15. You take extra spell. You learn Animate Dread Warrior using naenhoon and heighten spell, and with your now 19 wisdom you spellstitch yourself. You spellstitch it instantly as soon as you have the XP. Any humanoid with class levels you can raise and control now, with no limit. They gotta die first, but the crew of Ivans help build Igors. And Igors make the dream come true. You share with everyone now, and you even leave the dragons a bit. Because they derserve a piece of the pie as well. You keep an Ivan or two around, flying dragon Ivan is still useful. Your charisma might not be the greatest but dreadnecro and cleric have enough debuffs, plus anything an Igor has, to get whatever you want with planar binding. The HD cap hurts but more minions means more hands to give stuff away. Besides an angel(devas fall under your HD cap) showing up at your doorstep is a lot more likely to get let in and have a gift taken from them.

SR 13 with no cha boosts isn’t bad, another +2 turn resistance, and DR 5 magic and silver, +2 all saves. You also get to pick a ton of spells to add to yourself for free. Animate dread warrior is the only one that matters, but animate dead isn’t awful either, nor is magic jar or any other necromancy, conjuration or evocation spell. Choose what you need. Sadly you don’t get transmutation effects, but if you don’t mind a waiting period grab something level 5 off a domain from the catalogs of enlightenment and stitch it on. Revive undead from the deathbound domain is very very good. Lets you keep Igors around. Then go back for Extra turning, or turning of another kind (still powers DMM via raw and might get more uses if you have pumped cha. You have eternity use it as you see fit.)

High Levels

High Levels: 16 to 20 plays out a lot like upper levels. You get better Igors but your schtick stays the same. You can also steal 9th level spells (not from your Igors without jumping through a few hoops, but if need be) to get your list expanded more. Your level 18 feat is free, take whatever you want. I like Martial Study Mind over Body because disentegrate is a thing, but take whatever you feel you need. You can heroics it if you feel the need (find a wand). Or diamond mind ring it. Divine a treasure horde, find the path to it, take most of it, redistribute. You can likely wish yourself unholy toughness or something of the like with a stolen spell, and if you can go for it but its not necessary. You know, heroes (PCs) may have more wealth than dragons...and make good Igors hmmm...

Spellstitching

You could theoretically get dread warrior spellstiched earlier, likely involving some kind of dark chaos shuffle or the like, or even earlier. Looking at spellstitched I do not think there is any requirement for whoever create it to actually know the spell to stitch, just be of the level needed to cast the spell, and level 11 is the level needed for a wizard to cast Animate Dread Warrior. If the level to cast is the only requirement, so you could even do it right after the ritual if you found someone to do it for you. It costs mere 1000 gp and the experience, so its super backstory cheese but doable. Also wish could likely do it and you have planar ally and binding...but this reeks of limburgher already. Quatro-formaggio might be pushing it. Also I do not know if you can spellstitch yourself then add to your stitching, since its an aquired template I think it would need to be all in one go, because the benefits are very nice. If you can do it in stages, you get a mini spike at level 5 and you stitch yourself up as you go along. SR isn’t bad for you, you persist and extend your buffs start of the day, so in combat it should not be a problem, and I really wanted two more level of the SI but couldn’t squeeze it in. Skill mastery is always nice. Sample list of spells for stitching: lvl 6 Animate Dread Warrior, Lvl 5 Magic Jar and Revive Undead (deathbound domain), lvl 4 Enervation, Black Tentacles, Lvl 3 Animate Dead, magic circle against evil (lulz), lvl 2 Wind Wall, Command Undead, Lvl 1 detect magic, detect undead
[/spoiler]

Items

For itemization, its cha item, then wis item, save gear, a couple bags of holding or portable holes once you start dragon robbing. Anything that gives more turn undead is nice, to fuel dmm(nightsticks), as is the standard caster array of CL boosters, prayer beads, wands of whatever you need (heroics). Int boosters are not the worst in the world either you are very skill hungry. As many masterwork tools as you can get to help your skills. You get cha to concentration as an undead so that is nice, but you want more everything. You can avoid rebuke level boosters, they do not as much for you since your rebuking is awful. Get a mith chain shirt and load on your favorite enhancements. Grab a hammer to go with your sickle at some point for style. Dress in red.

Dread Necro Spells Chart

Spells per Day/Spells Known
Spells per Day/Spells Known

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
4
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

4th
5
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

5th
6
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

6th
6
4
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

7th
6
5
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

8th
6
6
4
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

9th
6
6
5
3
-
-
-
-
-
-

10th
6
6
6
4
-
-
-
-
-
-

11th
6
6
6
5
3
-
-
-
-
-

12th
6
6
6
6
4
-
-
-
-
-

13th
6
6
6
6
4
-
-
-
-
-

14th
6
6
6
6
5
3
-
-
-
-

15th
6
6
6
6
5
3
-
-
-
-

16th
6
6
6
6
5
3
-
-
-
-

17th
6
6
6
6
5
3
-
-
-
-

18th
6
6
6
6
5
3
-
-
-
-

19th
6
6
6
6
5
3
-
-
-
-

20th
6
6
6
6
5
3
-
-
-
-

Hoardstealer Spell Chart

Spells per Day/Spells Known
Spells per Day/Spells Known

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

15th
0
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

16th
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

17th
1
0
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

18th
1
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

19th
1
1
0
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

20th
1
1
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

Typically prepared (with int bonus spells)

1. Read magic, Detect Magic
2. Knock, Knock
3. Arcane Sight, Shrink Item

Sources

Illuman and sigils: races of destiny p. 51
Spellthief: Complete Adventurer p. 13
Dread Necromancer: Heroes of Horror p. 84
Rainbow Servant: Complete Divine P. 54
Uncanny Trickster: Complete Scoundrel p. 67
Hoardstealer: Dark pits of the capitalist 9 hells, Chairwoman
Master Spellthief: Complete Scoundrel p. 79
Necropolitan: Libris Mortis p. 114
Spellstiched Template: Complete Arcane 162
Catelogs of Enlightenment: Planar Handbook P. 166
Animate Dread Warrior: Unapproachable East p. 48
Divine Metamagic: Complete Divine p. 80
Persist Spell: Complete Arcane p. 81
Trading domains for devotions complete champion pg. 57 (law devotion)
Zombie Dragons: Draconomicon p. 195
Skill tricks in Complete scoundrel and Complete Adventurer
Everything else should be SRD.

Thanks to the chairwoman and judges.

Heliomance

2018-07-04, 07:05 AM

Entry number 9

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/tolkien-films/images/7/75/Bilbo.png/revision/latest?cb=20160705040447
Master Overmound
Midnighter of the 14 Companions
Halfing, Neutral Good, Rogue 4/ Swordsage 2/ Hoardstealer 8/ Whisperknife 5/ Luckstealer 1

Strength Dexterity Constitution Intelligence Wisdom Charisma Reason
11 14 8 17 12 14 32-point buy
9 16 8 17 12 14 Racial Bonuses
9 16 8 18 12 14 4th
9 17 8 18 12 14 8th
9 18 8 18 12 14 12th
9 19 8 18 12 14 16th
9 20 8 18 12 14 20th

Level Class BAB Fort Ref Will Skills Feats Features
1 Rogue +0 +0 +2 +0 Appraise (Int) 4
Balance (Dex) 4
Climb (Str) 4
Disable Device (Int) 4
Escape Artist (Dex) 4
Hide (Dex) 4
Jump (Str) 4
Move Silently (Dex) 4
Open Lock (Dex) 4
Search (Int) 4
Tumble (Dex) 4 Two-Weapon Fighting Ranged Sneak attack +1d6, Antiquarian
2 Rogue +1 +0 +3 +0 Appraise (Int) 5
Balance (Dex) 5
Climb (Str) 5
Disable Device (Int) 5
Escape Artist (Dex) 4
Hide (Dex) 5
Jump (Str) 5
Move Silently (Dex) 5
Open Lock (Dex) 5
Profession [Gambler] (Wis) 1
Search (Int) 5
Tumble (Dex) 5 - Evasion
3 Rogue +2 +1 +3 +1 Appraise (Int) 6
Balance (Dex) 6
Climb (Str) 5
Disable Device (Int) 6
Escape Artist (Dex) 4
Hide (Dex) 6
Jump (Str) 5
Move Silently (Dex) 6
Open Lock (Dex) 6
Profession [Gambler] (Wis) 3
Search (Int) 6
Spot (Wis) 1
Tumble (Dex) 6 Weapon Finesse Ranged Sneak attack +1d6, Melee attack +1d6, Penetrating Strike
4 Swordsage +2 +1 +5 +3 Appraise (Int) 6
Balance (Dex) 7
Climb (Str) 5
Disable Device (Int) 6
Escape Artist (Dex) 4
Hide (Dex) 7
Jump (Str) 7
Listen (Wis) 2
Move Silently (Dex) 7
Open Lock (Dex) 6
Profession [Gambler] (Wis) 5
Search (Int) 6
Spot (Wis) 1
Tumble (Dex) 7 - Quick to act +1, discipline focus (Weapon Focus){Shadow Hand}
5 Rogue +3 +1 +6 +3 Appraise (Int) 8
Balance (Dex) 7
Climb (Str) 5
Disable Device (Int) 8
Escape Artist (Dex) 4
Hide (Dex) 8
Jump (Str) 7
Listen (Wis) 2
Move Silently (Dex) 8
Open Lock (Dex) 7
Profession [Gambler] (Wis) 7
Search (Int) 8
Spot (Wis) 1
Tumble (Dex) 8 - Uncanny Dodge
6 Hoardstealer +3 +1 +8 +3 Appraise (Int) 9
Balance (Dex) 9
Climb (Str) 5
Disable Device (Int) 9
Escape Artist (Dex) 4
Hide (Dex) 8
Jump (Str) 7
Listen (Wis) 3
Move Silently (Dex) 8
Open Lock (Dex) 8
Profession [Gambler] (Wis) 7
Search (Int) 9
Spot (Wis) 2
Tumble (Dex) 8 Shadow Blade Darkvision +30 ft., trapfinding
7 Hoardstealer +4 +1 +9 +3 Appraise (Int) 10
Balance (Dex) 10
Climb (Str) 5
Disable Device (Int) 10
Escape Artist (Dex) 5
Hide (Dex) 8
Jump (Str) 7
Listen (Wis) 4
Move Silently (Dex) 8
Open Lock (Dex) 9
Profession [Gambler] (Wis) 7
Search (Int) 10
Spot (Wis) 3
Tumble (Dex) 8 - Hide from dragons 1/day
8 Swordsage +5 +1 +10 +4 Appraise (Int) 10
Balance (Dex) 10
Climb (Str) 6
Disable Device (Int) 10
Escape Artist (Dex) 5
Hide (Dex) 9
Jump (Str) 7
Listen (Wis) 5
Move Silently (Dex) 10
Open Lock (Dex) 9
Profession [Gambler] (Wis) 9
Search (Int) 10
Spot (Wis) 3
Tumble (Dex) 11 - AC Bonus
9 Hoardstealer +6/+1 +2 +10 +5 Appraise (Int) 12
Balance (Dex) 10
Climb (Str) 6
Disable Device (Int) 11
Escape Artist (Dex) 5
Hide (Dex) 9
Jump (Str) 8
Listen (Wis) 5.5
Move Silently (Dex) 10
Open Lock (Dex) 10
Profession [Gambler] (Wis) 9
Search (Int) 12
Spot (Wis) 4
Tumble (Dex) 11 Quick Draw Trap sense +2, deep pockets
10 Hoardstealer +7/+2 +2 +11 +5 Appraise (Int) 13
Balance (Dex) 10
Climb (Str) 7
Disable Device (Int) 12
Escape Artist (Dex) 6
Hide (Dex) 9
Jump (Str) 9
Listen (Wis) 6
Move Silently (Dex) 10
Open Lock (Dex) 11
Profession [Gambler] (Wis) 9
Search (Int) 13
Spot (Wis) 5
Tumble (Dex) 11 - Treasure dowsing 1/day
11 Hoardstealer +7/+2 +2 +11 +5 Appraise (Int) 14
Balance (Dex) 10
Climb (Str) 8
Disable Device (Int) 13
Escape Artist (Dex) 7
Hide (Dex) 9
Jump (Str) 10
Listen (Wis) 7
Move Silently (Dex) 10
Open Lock (Dex) 12
Profession [Gambler] (Wis) 9
Search (Int) 14
Spot (Wis) 5.5
Tumble (Dex) 11 - Darkvision +60 ft.
12 Hoardstealer +9/+4 +3 +12 +6 Appraise (Int) 15
Balance (Dex) 10
Climb (Str) 9
Disable Device (Int) 14
Escape Artist (Dex) 8
Hide (Dex) 9
Jump (Str) 11
Listen (Wis) 8
Move Silently (Dex) 10
Open Lock (Dex) 13
Profession [Gambler] (Wis) 9
Search (Int) 15
Spot (Wis) 6
Tumble (Dex) 11 Point Blank Shot Trap sense +4, hide from dragons 2/day
13 Whisperknife +10/+5 +3 +14 +6 Appraise (Int) 15
Balance (Dex) 10
Climb (Str) 10
Disable Device (Int) 15
Escape Artist (Dex) 8
Hide (Dex) 11
Jump (Str) 12
Listen (Wis) 8
Move Silently (Dex) 11
Open Lock (Dex) 14
Profession [Gambler] (Wis) 9
Search (Int) 16
Spot (Wis) 7
Tumble (Dex) 12 - Rapid Shot, improved uncanny dodge
14 Whisperknife +11/+6/+1 +3 +15 +6 Appraise (Int) 15
Balance (Dex) 10
Climb (Str) 11
Disable Device (Int) 16
Escape Artist (Dex) 8
Hide (Dex) 13
Jump (Str) 13
Listen (Wis) 8
Move Silently (Dex) 12
Open Lock (Dex) 15
Profession [Gambler] (Wis) 9
Search (Int) 17
Spot (Wis) 8
Tumble (Dex) 13 - Ranged Sneak attack +1d6, Melee Sneak attack +2d6
15 Whisperknife +12/+7/+2 +3 +15 +7 Appraise (Int) 15
Balance (Dex) 10
Climb (Str) 12
Disable Device (Int) 17
Escape Artist (Dex) 8
Hide (Dex) 15
Jump (Str) 14
Listen (Wis) 8
Move Silently (Dex) 14
Open Lock (Dex) 15
Profession [Gambler] (Wis) 9
Search (Int) 18
Spot (Wis) 9
Tumble (Dex) 14 Dallah Thaun's Luck Defensive throw, improved catch
16 Luckstealer +12/+7/+2 +3 +17 +9 Appraise (Int) 17
Balance (Dex) 10
Climb (Str) 12
Disable Device (Int) 17
Escape Artist (Dex) 9.5
Hide (Dex) 15
Jump (Str) 14
Listen (Wis) 8
Move Silently (Dex) 14
Open Lock (Dex) 15
Profession [Gambler] (Wis) 10
Search (Int) 18
Spot (Wis) 9
Tumble (Dex) 15
- Curse of the fatespurned, subtle magic
17 Whisperknife +13/+8/+3 +4 +18 +9 Appraise (Int) 17
Balance (Dex) 10
Climb (Str) 13
Disable Device (Int) 19
Escape Artist (Dex) 9.5
Hide (Dex) 17
Jump (Str) 14
Listen (Wis) 8
Move Silently (Dex) 14
Open Lock (Dex) 15
Profession [Gambler] (Wis) 10
Search (Int) 20
Spot (Wis) 9
Tumble (Dex) 18 - Close defense
18 Hoardstealer +14/+9/+4 +4 +18 +9 Appraise (Int) 20
Balance (Dex) 10
Climb (Str) 14
Disable Device (Int) 20
Escape Artist (Dex) 11.5
Hide (Dex) 17
Jump (Str) 16
Listen (Wis) 8
Move Silently (Dex) 14
Open Lock (Dex) 15
Profession [Gambler] (Wis) 10
Search (Int) 21
Spot (Wis) 9
Tumble (Dex) 18
Darkstalker1 Treasure dowsing 2/day
19 Hoardstealer +15/+10/+5 +4 +19 +9 Appraise (Int) 22
Balance (Dex) 10
Climb (Str) 16
Disable Device (Int) 21
Escape Artist (Dex) 15.5
Hide (Dex) 17
Jump (Str) 17
Listen (Wis) 8
Move Silently (Dex) 14
Open Lock (Dex) 15
Profession [Gambler] (Wis) 10
Search (Int) 22
Spot (Wis) 9
Tumble (Dex) 18 - Skill mastery
20 Whisperknife +16/+11/+6/+1 +4 +19 +9 Appraise (Int) 22
Balance (Dex) 10
Climb (Str) 16
Disable Device (Int) 22
Escape Artist (Dex) 16
Hide (Dex) 21
Jump (Str) 17
Listen (Wis) 8
Move Silently (Dex) 14
Open Lock (Dex) 15
Profession [Gambler] (Wis) 10
Search (Int) 23
Spot (Wis) 9
Tumble (Dex) 21
- Ranged Sneak attack +1d6, Melee Sneak attack +3d6

Level Manuever/Stances Level 1 Level 2 Level 3 Level 4
1 - - - - -
2 - - - - -
3 - - - - -
4 6/1 - - - -
5 6/1 1 - - -
6 6/1 2 - - -
7 6/1 2 - - -
8 7/2 2 - - -
9 7/2 2 1 - -
10 7/2 2 2 - -
11 7/2 2 2 1 -
12 7/2 2 2 2 -
13 7/2 2 2 2 -
14 7/2 2 2 2 -
15 7/2 2 2 2 -
16 7/2 2 2 2 -
17 7/2 2 2 2 -
18 7/2 3 2 2 1
19 7/2 3 2 2 2
20 7/2 3 2 2 2

Level List
1 -
2 -
3 -
4 Island of Blades, Shadow Jaunt, Burning Brand, Cloak of Deception, Flashing Sun, Wolf Fang Strike, Claw at the Moon
5 -
6 -
7 -
8 Assassin's Stance, Flesh Ripper
9 -
10 -
11 -
12 -
13 -
14 -
15 -
16 -
17 -
18 -
19 -
20 -

Yes well I wasn’t always the master that you see before you. In fact when I was first recruited as a member of the companions I was quite the idle fellow. In fact I didn’t really see myself getting out at all unless it was to see after my interests. Was living quite comfortably in fact when The Wizard showed up and invited himself and his pod of dwarves into my home. Quite the night let me tell you. I don’t think I’d had ever seen something so adventurous. Little did I know the shenanigans that I was about to get raked up in.
Levels 1-5 are dedicated to qualifying for the SI, while expected Rogue is a good solid base to build from for this class, and has multiple openings for handy free alternate class features, since most of what we trade away we gain back as a Hoardstealer. We start by taking the racial substitution level. This specifically helps for later when we take Whisperknife, but for early on it helps deal extra damage while keeping out of the main fray as any good skulk should be. Anitquarian replaces trapfinding whchi we’ll reclaim once we take our first level of Hoardstealer, and then we trade off trapsense for Penetrating Strike. The latter is fairly obvious, but is a staple do to its reliability.
At fourth level we grab Swordsage the open the path to Shadow Blade so we can reduce our MAD a bit. Combined with Weapon Finesse we are now using Dexterity for our combat rolls. Two-Weapon Fighting is taken as a prerequisite for Whisperknife.

If you want a more thorough recollection of the accounts feel free to purchase a copy of my memoirs, There, Back, and Gone Again. But as I said that night was naught but the start of my adventures. My first run in with Goblins, fighting intelligent spiders in a pitch black forest, the escape from a wood elf jail, don’t even get me started on dealing with the werebear. Though I suppose none of it holds a candle to our first real bit dungeon delving, Reclaiming the hoard of the Great Wyrm Guams. Naturally being the thief of the group if fell to me to get in and scout it out. I was quite successful at first and had almost everything mapped out before I had to start playing Hide and Go Riddle Me This with him. I think I was doing quite well too, at least until I accidentally set him on the local lake town, but hey they were able to kill him, and we got our treasure, so all’s well that ends well!
At level 6 we dive into the SI. Level 7 sees a brief dip back into Swordsage so we can grab Assassin’s Stance for extra Sneak attack damage. We continue to take feats to qualify for Whisperknife until level 12 and then start building up levels in Whisperknife. At level 15 we take Dallah Thaun’s Luck. This opens up the Luckstealer class for us, but more importantly it gives us a way to boost our abysmal Fortitude save. If we weren’t so feat starved trying to qualify for Whisperknife I would say take this earlier, but the damage from Shadow Blade was needed considerably earlier. Darkstalker is taken at level 18 to wrap the build up. While it would have been nice to have taken Darkstalker earlier as noted we are quite starved for feats, and trying to fit everything in was quite the challenge.

After that there was a bit of a tussle and I briefly sojourned home. Again for details please do get a copy of my memoirs it’s really quite the read. The problem is once you get a taste for this kind of thing it’s really hard to give up, so I was off again shortly afterwards. I rejoined my companions and since we’ve tried to keep our number at fourteen since it’s been quite lucky, and obviously I’ve remained as our midnighter. Now that said I do have the information we need to get this particular hoard from the dragon, please, please hold your applause, as I'd appreciate a more pragmatic salute (https://youtu.be/bcc1IJpmLSI?t=9s)
Level 20 is our endgame. Here we have a good solid Base attack bonus, and we're agile enough to be able to function both in and out of melee combat thanks to our race and the abilities we get from whisper knife. Being small does reduce our damage a bit, but it does give a increasing dodge bonus against most creatures we'll be fighting since they're generally going to be a fair bit larger. Additionally the close defense ability makes it even easier for us to stay alive if we do end up in the mix instead of comfortably at a distance throwing knives at things. Thanks to Dallah Thaun’s luck all our save are at least passable, and our reflex save is not surprisingly near unstoppable.

Our skills also stack together well and build upon each other as we look to get into our role and our prestige classes with only the one level dip into Luckstealer being a little odd. That said I do feel like the utility from it’s perquisite feat, and the flavor of just stealing that little bit of extra luck you need from your foe fits in with the idea of the hoard stealer well. It also helps mask our spellcasting limited as it is.

We only go up to level 8 with Hoardstealer since that is the point at which we receive our capstone ability. We have all four levels of our casting available to us, and the only thing left to gain is a little bit of distance for darkvision, and 1 more use per day of our abilities. At this point we are better served by building other aspects instead of continuing to take level in the SI unless we have nothing else we can add since most of the daily abilities are easily replicated.

Level 20 is our endgame. Here we have a good solid Base attack bonus, and we're agile enough to be able to function both in and out of melee combat thanks to our race and the abilities we get from whisper knife. Being small does reduce our damage a bit, but it does give a increasing dodge bonus against most creatures we'll be fighting since they're generally going to be a fair bit larger. Additionally the close defense ability makes it even easier for us to stay alive if we do end up in the mix instead of comfortably at a distance throwing knives at things. Thanks to Dallah Thaun’s luck all our save are at least passable, and our reflex save is not surprisingly near unstoppable.

Our skills also stack together well and build upon each other as we look to get into our role and our prestige classes with only the one level dip into Luckstealer being a little odd. That said I do feel like the utility from it’s perquisite feat, and the flavor of just stealing that little bit of extra luck you need from your foe fits in with the idea of the hoard stealer well. It also helps mask our spellcasting limited as it is.

We only go up to level 8 with Hoardstealer since that is the point at which we receive our capstone ability. We have all four levels of our casting available to us, and the only thing left to gain is a little bit of distance for darkvision, and 1 more use per day of our abilities. At this point we are better served by building other aspects instead of continuing to take level in the SI unless we have nothing else we can add since most of the daily abilities are easily replicated.

Swordsage : Tome of Battle
Whisperknife : Races of the Wild
Luckstealer : Races of the Wild
Halfling Racial Substitution : Races of the Wild
Antiquarian : Complete Champion
Penetrating Strike : Dungeonscape
Shadow Blade : Tome of Battle
Dallah Thaun’s Luck : Races of the Wild
Darkstalker : Lords of Madness

Heliomance

2018-07-04, 07:06 AM

Entry number 10

Ser Iaijutsu Tonneu de Chartres
CG Otherworldly Human Ranger 2/Human Paragon 3/Fighter 2/Hoardstealer 10/Wyrm Wizard 3

“We see more and farther than our predecessors, not because we have keener vision or greater height, but because we are lifted up and borne aloft on their gigantic stature."

From the blessing of angels they say was bestowed upon me at the moment of my birth I have been lifted up by the great creatures that we humans walk amongst in the multiverse. From the furthest planes to the deepest corners of our own are fantastical marvels of creation, and I have endeavored to learn their stories and their secrets. The true hoard of the dragon is knowledge, and borne upon their knowledge and that of others, I have reached a vantage point from which to peer into dark corners that elude even their sight.

Ability Scores
10 Str, 15 Dex, 12 Con, 16 Int, 12 Wis, 12 Cha
Increase Dex at 4th and 8th level, and Int at all opportunities after that.

Build Table

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Ranger 1
+1
+2
+2
+0
Hide 4, Move Silently 4, Search 4, Spot 4, Survival 4, Disable Device 2, Open Lock 2, Appraise 2, Escape Artist 2, Knowledge (Nature) 3, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 3, Knowledge (Local) 2, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Knowledge (The Planes) 2
Able Learner, Otherworldly, TrackB
Favored Enemy (Arcanist), Wild Empathy

2nd
Human Paragon 1
+1
+2
+2
+0
Iaijutsu Focus 5, Hide 5, Move Silently 5, Search 5, Spot 4, Survival 4, Disable Device 2, Open Lock 2, Appraise 2, Escape Artist 2, Knowledge (Nature) 3, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 3, Knowledge (Local) 2, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Knowledge (The Planes) 2
-
Adaptive Learning (Iaijutsu Focus), Iaijutsu Focus, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (The Planes), Knowledge (Local), Appraise, Spellcraft, Disable Device, Appraise, and Escape Artist as Class Skills

3rd
Ranger 2
+2
+3
+3
+2
Iaijutsu Focus 6, Hide 6, Move Silently 6, Search 6, Spot 4, Survival 4, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 3, Appraise 4, Escape Artist 3, Knowledge (Nature) 3, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 3, Knowledge (Local) 2, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Knowledge (The Planes) 2
Darkstalker, Rapid ShotB
Combat Style

4th
Fighter 1
+3
+5
+3
+2
Iaijutsu Focus 6, Hide 7, Move Silently 7, Search 7, Spot 4, Survival 4, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 3, Appraise 7, Escape Artist 3, Knowledge (Nature) 3, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 3, Knowledge (Local) 2, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Knowledge (The Planes) 2
Point Blank ShotB
Hit-and-Run Tactics

5th
Fighter 2
+4
+6
+3
+2
Iaijutsu Focus 6, Hide 8, Move Silently 8, Search 8, Spot 4, Survival 4, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Appraise 8, Escape Artist 4, Knowledge (Nature) 3, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 3, Knowledge (Local) 2, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Knowledge (The Planes) 2
Far ShotB
-

6th
Hoardstealer 1
+4
+6
+5
+2
Iaijutsu Focus 9, Hide 9, Move Silently 9, Search 8, Spot 4, Survival 4, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Appraise 8, Escape Artist 4, Knowledge (Nature) 3, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 3, Knowledge (Local) 2, Knowledge (Arcana) 3, Knowledge (The Planes) 3, Knowledge (Religion) 1, Collector of Stories
Knowledge Devotion (Religion)
Darkvision +30ft, Trapfinding

7th
Hoardstealer 2
+5
+6
+6
+2
Iaijutsu Focus 10, Hide 10, Move Silently 10, Search 8, Spot 6, Survival 4, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Appraise 8, Escape Artist 4, Knowledge (Nature) 3, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 3, Knowledge (Local) 2, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Knowledge (The Planes) 4, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Collector of Stories
-
Hide From Dragons 1/day

8th
Hoardstealer 3
+6
+7
+6
+3
Iaijutsu Focus 11, Hide 11, Move Silently 11, Search 8, Spot 6, Survival 4, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Appraise 8, Escape Artist 4, Knowledge (Nature) 3, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 3, Knowledge (Local) 2, Knowledge (Arcana) 5, Knowledge (The Planes) 5, Knowledge (Religion) 5, Spellcraft 4, Collector of Stories
-
Trap Sense +2, Deep Pockets

9th
Hoardstealer 4
+7
+7
+7
+3
Iaijutsu Focus 12, Hide 12, Move Silently 12, Search 8, Spot 6, Survival 4, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Appraise 8, Escape Artist 4, Knowledge (Nature) 3, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 3, Knowledge (Local) 2, Knowledge (Arcana) 5, Knowledge (The Planes) 5, Knowledge (Religion) 5, Spellcraft 8, Collector of Stories
Manyshot
Treasure Dowsing 1/day

10th
Hoardstealer 5
+7
+7
+7
+3
Iaijutsu Focus 13, Hide 13, Move Silently 13, Search 8, Spot 6, Survival 4, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Appraise 8, Escape Artist 4, Knowledge (Nature) 3, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 3, Knowledge (Local) 2, Knowledge (Arcana) 7, Knowledge (The Planes) 7, Knowledge (Religion) 7, Spellcraft 9, Collector of Stories
-
Darkvision +60ft

11th
Human Paragon 2
+8
+7
+7
+4
Iaijutsu Focus 14, Hide 14, Move Silently 14, Search 8, Spot 6, Survival 4, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Appraise 8, Escape Artist 4, Knowledge (Nature) 3, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 3, Knowledge (Local) 2, Knowledge (Arcana) 9, Knowledge (The Planes) 8, Knowledge (Religion) 9, Spellcraft 9, Collector of Stories
Quicken SpellB
-

12th
Wyrm Wizard 1
+8
+7
+7
+6
Iaijutsu Focus 15, Hide 15, Move Silently 15, Search 8, Spot 6, Survival 4, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Appraise 8, Escape Artist 4, Knowledge (Nature) 3, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 3, Knowledge (Local) 2, Knowledge (Arcana) 9, Knowledge (The Planes) 10, Knowledge (Religion) 10, Spellcraft 9, Collector of Stories
Practiced Spellcaster (Hoardstealer)
Knowledge of the Wyrm

13th
Wyrm Wizard 2
+9
+7
+7
+7
Iaijutsu Focus 16, Hide 16, Move Silently 16, Search 8, Spot 6, Survival 4, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Appraise 8, Escape Artist 4, Knowledge (Nature) 3, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 4, Knowledge (Local) 2, Knowledge (Arcana) 9, Knowledge (The Planes) 11, Knowledge (Religion) 11, Spellcraft 9, Collector of Stories
-
Spell Research (Polymorph)

14th
Wyrm Wizard 3
+9
+8
+8
+7
Iaijutsu Focus 17, Hide 17, Move Silently 17, Search 8, Spot 6, Survival 4, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Appraise 8, Escape Artist 4, Knowledge (Nature) 3, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 5, Knowledge (Local) 2, Knowledge (Arcana) 9, Knowledge (The Planes) 13, Knowledge (Religion) 13, Spellcraft 9, Collector of Stories
-
Draconic Discovery (Quickened Invisibility)

15th
Hoardstealer 6
+10
+9
+9
+8
Iaijutsu Focus 18, Hide 18, Move Silently 18, Search 8, Spot 6, Survival 4, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Appraise 8, Escape Artist 4, Knowledge (Nature) 5, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 5, Knowledge (Local) 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 9, Knowledge (The Planes) 13, Knowledge (Religion) 13, Spellcraft 9, Collector of Stories
Greater Manyshot
Trap Sense +4, Hide From Dragons 2/day

16th
Hoardstealer 7
+11
+9
+9
+8
Iaijutsu Focus 19, Hide 19, Move Silently 19, Search 8, Spot 6, Survival 4, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Appraise 8, Escape Artist 4, Knowledge (Nature) 7, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 7, Knowledge (Local) 7, Knowledge (Arcana) 9, Knowledge (The Planes) 14, Knowledge (Religion) 14, Spellcraft 9, Collector of Stories
-
Treasure Dowsing 2/day

17th
Human Paragon 3
+12
+10
+11
+8
Iaijutsu Focus 20, Hide 20, Move Silently 20, Search 8, Spot 6, Survival 4, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Appraise 8, Escape Artist 4, Knowledge (Nature) 9, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 10, Knowledge (Local) 9, Knowledge (Arcana) 9, Knowledge (The Planes) 14, Knowledge (Religion) 14, Spellcraft 9, Collector of Stories
-
Int +2

18th
Hoardstealer 8
+13
+10
+12
+8
Iaijutsu Focus 21, Hide 21, Move Silently 21, Search 8, Spot 6, Survival 4, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Appraise 8, Escape Artist 4, Knowledge (Nature) 9, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 14, Knowledge (Local) 14, Knowledge (Arcana) 9, Knowledge (The Planes) 14, Knowledge (Religion) 14, Spellcraft 9, Collector of Stories
Planar Touchstone (Oxyrhynicus: Longbow)
Skill Mastery (Iaijutsu Focus, Hide, Move Silently, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (The Planes), Knowledge (Religion), Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Knowledge (Local))

19th
Hoardstealer 9
+13
+11
+12
+9
Iaijutsu Focus 22, Hide 22, Move Silently 22, Search 8, Spot 10, Survival 4, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Appraise 8, Escape Artist 4, Knowledge (Nature) 14, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 14, Knowledge (Local) 14, Knowledge (Arcana) 9, Knowledge (The Planes) 14, Knowledge (Religion) 14, Spellcraft 9, Collector of Stories
-
Darkvision +90 ft, Trap Sense +6

20th
Hoardstealer 10
+14
+11
+13
+9
Iaijutsu Focus 23, Hide 23, Move Silently 23, Search 8, Spot 10, Survival 4, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Appraise 8, Escape Artist 4, Knowledge (Nature) 23, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 14, Knowledge (Local) 14, Knowledge (Arcana) 9, Knowledge (The Planes) 14, Knowledge (Religion) 14, Spellcraft 9, Collector of Stories
-
Treasure Dowsing 3/day, Hide From Dragons 3/day

Spellcasting

Level
1st
2nd
3rd
4th

6th
0
-
-
-

7th
1
-
-
-

8th
1
0
-
-

9th
1
1
-
-

10th
1
1
0
-

11th
1
1
1
-

12th
2
1
1
0

13th
2
1
1
0

14th
2
1
1
1

15th
2
2
1
1

16th
2
2
2
1

17th
2
2
2
1

18th
2
2
2
1

19th
2
2
2
1

20th
2
2
2
1

Does not include bonus spells for a high Int score.

ECL 5The Celestial-Attended Birth option in Champions of Valor opens up the Otherworldly feat to characters of any region, rather than just those given in the feat’s original publication. This allows us to take it for Outsider typing (and the 60 ft of Darkvision that comes with it) as a standard Human, meaning we can also take Able Learner and Human Paragon, which ensure that we can qualify for the SI with little difficulty, neatly solves the issues that would otherwise arise from omissions to the Hoardstealer skill list, and snags Iaijutsu Focus as a class skill for good measure. An Elvencraft Bow is a melee weapon, so drawing one immediately before firing on a flat-footed target is a valid way to get iaijutsu damage, and works even beyond the 30 ft range limitation of most precision damage (Hit-and-Run Tactics does unfortunately have that limitation, but at least we get a little extra damage when we’re stuck fighting up close and personal).

ECL 10Since we held onto Hide and Move Silently as class skills, Hoardstealer offers considerable help rather than impediment to our stealthiness by way of Invisibility from its casting and the Hide From Dragons SLA. It also helpfully extends Darkvision to 120 ft, as far as a dragon and further than almost anything else. Being hidden within an enemy’s field of vision or standing just outside it means that enemy is flat-footed, and hence susceptible to iaijutsu damage. Manyshot also comes online in these levels, which means that with the help of a dirt cheap Least Crystal of Return (stick it on the least important Quarterstaff head of the Elvencraft Longbow), we’ve got ourselves a free move action to ‘sheathe’ the bow before drawing and firing each round without sacrificing the ability to make multiple attacks.
ECL 15This is where things get fun. We duck out of Hoardstealer for a bit, instead progressing its casting through another Human Paragon level followed by some Wyrm Wizard. This adds Polymorph to the Hoardstealer list, which, combines with Outsider typing from Otherworldly to open up Arrow Demon form so that the archery fun can be doubled. We also nab Greater Manyshot, which explicitly says precision damage is added to all attacks in the volley, not just the first. This not only solves the issue of the dumb volley rules in the Rules Compendium, but also the logistical issues of Iaijutsu Focus. So each round, so long as we can keep targeting flat-footed enemies, either by remaining outside the range of their Darkvision or some other trick (like the 1/day Quickened Invisibility that the third level of Wyrm Wizard grants) we can crank out a bunch of iaijutsu attacks by stowing away one bow as a move action, drawing it as a free action via Least Crystal of Return, and then unleashing a Symmetrical Archery Greater Manyshot.
ECL 20Squeezing the third level of Human Paragon in for an extra +2 Int before Hoardstealer 8 adds an extra skill for Skill Mastery to apply to. In addition to Iaijutsu and the stealth skills, this means we now take 10 on every creature-identifying Knowledge skill besides Nature. With Skill Mastery alongside Collector of Stories, a +5 Int mod, a Masterwork item, and in the case of Knowledge (Arcana) another +5 from Knowledge of the Wyrm with the assistance of a dragon friend, we hit the DC 36 required for a +5 from Knowledge Devotion (or the DC 31 for a +4 if you don’t use Collector of Stories) without having to max those skills out or roll dice. That frees up enough skill points to max out Knowledge (Nature) so that it can get there on a roll of 1. Our final feat goes to Planar Touchstone (Oxyrhynicus) which adds an extra attack (or two with Symmetrical Archery) whenever we catch a target flat-footed and make two or more attacks. Even if we elect to use a sniping attack rather than Manyshot, Symmetrical Archery makes that into two shots, which Oxyrhynicus then makes into four. Hoardstealer also increases the range of our Darkvision out to 150 ft, outside the range of even dragons (but convieniently still within a single longbow range increment thanks to Far Shot).

Champions of Valor: Celestial-Attended Birth
Complete Arcane: Practiced Spellcaster
Complete Champion: Knowledge Devotion
Complete Mage: Arcane Hunter
Draconomicon: Hoardstealer
Dragon Magic: Wyrm Wizard
Drow of the Underdark: Hit-and-Run Tactics
Lords of Madness: Darkstalker
Magic Item Compendium: Least Crystal of Return
Monster Manual III (Web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040815b&page=4)): Arrow Demon
Oriental Adventures: Iaijutsu Focus
Planar Handbook: Planar Touchstone, Oxyrhynicus
Player’s Guide to Faerun: Otherworldly
Races of Destiny: Able Learner
Races of the Wild: Elvencraft Bow
Spell Compendium: Hide From Dragons
Everything else is SRD.

Heliomance

2018-07-04, 07:08 AM

Entry number 11

https://i.imgur.com/VTe82wq.jpg

Gunnar von Sacher

“Whaddayagot for me, handsome?” Gunnar asked the dvati behind the desk in operations.

Xanathar jobs always paid well enough, even if there were hoops to jump through.

“Oh, hush, everyone knows Xam’s the handsome one,” Xim said from behind a mountain of papers as he deposited them into a bank of filing cabinets.

Xam adjusted his translucent green visor and went through the meticulous stacks of files on his desk.

“I’m afraid there’s not much in our to-do pile vis-a-vis for-hire slavery.” Xam helplessly indicated the so-labeled box with his hand. It lay fallow.

“You’re killing me, boys.” Gunnar said with an easy smile. He seated himself and lit a pipe of devilweed.

“Hey, don’t look at us. You wanna complain, go take it up with the new head of slavery. Guy’s such a dynamo, he’s insisting on most of the X-man’s jobs being done in-house,” Xim said.

“Ass. He’ll burn himself out in a year’s time if he keeps that up,” Gunnar said with a puff.

Xam waved the smoke away with his hand. “We’ve got a pool going on that. I bet he’s Xanathar food in eighteen months. Xim says he’ll make it two years. You want in, it’s a hundred Thayan.”

“How come you guys get two picks?” Gunnar teased. He tossed a sizable leather purse full of gold onto the table, extricated from some dark place.

Xim stuck out his tongue. “Racist,” he teased. “Where do you keep all those goodies? Those pants don’t even have any pockets.”

“Occupational hazard. Hey, you wanna know that, you’ll have to buy me dinner first. Lemme split the difference and gimme 21 months before recruiting’s got to find a new head of slavery,” Gunnar said.

“Bane, don’t get me started on recruiting,” Xim said. “So much paperwork when we’ve got a new head to deal with. We still need a new head for laundering ever since what’s-his-name disappeared.”

Before Gunnar could get the pair started, whatever that would entail, the door to the twins’ office flew open with such force it cracked the frosted glass pane reading “operations” straight down the middle.

“Miss, I told you, you’ve got to have an appointment!” the seneschal from front desk’s voice echoed down the hall alongside frantic footsteps on its marble floor.

“’s what you get when you hire a halfling to keep out the riffraff. Legs’re so short, they couldn’t catch a one-legged digester,” Gunnar said.

“Don’t you start, EEO’s been all up our collective ass. We had to have at least one in operations,” Xim said, ignoring the interloper.

“Well? What’s so important you can’t go through proper channels, girl?” Xam demanded of her.

Gunnar turned his head and gave her the once over, which she didn’t seem to appreciate. A bandanna hung loose around her neck. Her dark hair hung in an elaborate braid well past its edge. A crimson domino mask obscured her eyes, a long tail coming from it alongside her left cheek, like a question mark. Fine, black powder, maybe soot or tea leaves clung to her chin. She’d been in disguise as a man, but wasn’t bothering now. Her breasts were unbound in red leather armor. Custom, not harvested from one of her kills like her other piecemeal accoutrements: a greave here, a pauldron there. She looked ridiculous.

“Do or do you not have Phyristos the maimed in your custody?” she barked, trying to sound tough. She fingered the handle of a whip with her left hand, though the office was far too cramped to swing it.

“Custody? I think she has us mixed up with someone else,” Xim said.

“Bane, not another kid. I’m not saying we do or don’t, but if we did, what’d he be worth to you?” Xam asked.

She clumsily untied a huge bag of Rashemi gold from her belt and hurled it onto the table, knocking over Xam’s inkwell and upsetting his papers. She began to apologize, but caught herself and coughed. Maintaining the tough girl image, no doubt.

“Were you raised in a barn?” Xam got a wand out of a coffee cup from among a dozen or so others and had an unseen servant rack up the coins into precise stacks. “I’m going to assume you don’t have an account with us, miss…”

“Red Mist,” she said with the authority of someone who practiced a nome de guerre in the mirror a hundred times before taking it out for a spin.

“Right,” Xam said and rolled his eyes to Gunnar when she wasn’t looking. “Xim, get out a new account template for Red Mist here.”

“This basically says neither of us will try to pull anything on the other. If you like, I can explain the rest. Can you read?” Xim set the paper down in front of her and scribbled his signature with a quill. “Signed.”

“Witnessed,” Xam said.

Red Mist sat in the chair beside Gunnar and huffed. “What, just because I’m Rashemi, you figure I can’t?”

“Relax, I have to ask. Want everything to be above board and all,” Xim said.

The haste with which she made an X on the document was answer enough.

“Great. Now, delivery is extra, of course. Is there anywhere you’d like him sent? I can contact smuggling.” Xam rifled through his cup of wands. “Or if you prefer to take him yourself, I’ll have slavery gift wrap him for you no charge.”

Xim went through the filing cabinets behind the desk with blinding speed. “Where the hell is our scale?”

Xam sighed in disgust. “That’s right, it’s busted. We’ll have to borrow one from laundering, but they’re all screwed up right now, so who knows how long that’ll take.” He bit his lip and looked hopefully to Gunnar.

Gunnar smirked. “So you don’t have any work for me, but you expect me to do this for free? Come on, that wouldn’t very professional.”

“Fine, what do you want?” Xam asked.

Gunnar scratched his cheek, just above the edge of his silvertongue mask. “Gimme an extra two week spread on the pool.”

“Extortionist bastard. Fine.” Xam set out a few gold bricks from his desk drawer by Red Mist’s payment. The servant had finished lining up five hundred coins.

“That’s not my department,” Gunnar joked.

“Hey, are you guys calling me a cheat?” Red Mist snarled. The twins ignored her.

“No one’s calling anyone anything, kid,” Gunnar said. “They do it any time they work with an outside contractor for the first time. It was in the contract.”

She grunted.

“All right, which, if any, of these piles contains the larger amount of gold?” Xam asked.

Gunnar pointed at the bars. “That one.”

Xam grinned. “Thought so.”

“Is there a problem here?” Red Mist asked.

“Gunnar, be a lamb and lock the door, would you?” Xam asked. Gunnar complied.

Xim set a form in front of his twin. “Transfer of ownership.”

Xam scribbled his signature. “Signed.”

“Witnessed,” said Xim.

“What’s going on here?” Red Mist got out of her chair and clenched a fist.

“Well, my dear, you tried to bamboozle us, and as it clearly explained in the contract, that means you’re forfeit. What’s she worth, Gunnar?” Xam asked. He rolled one of her counterfeit coins across his knuckles.

“Pretty penny, actually. Tell you what: put her on my tab. I can use her for a little side project I’m working on,” Gunnar said.

“Excuse me, no one is using me for anything!” Red Mist pulled a knife out of her belt.

“Oh, come on! This is ridiculous. I’m calling assassination.” Xim grabbed for a wand.

“You don’t want to do this, miss,” Gunnar said. “You’re not the kind of person who knifes accountants in their offices for no reason, are you?”

“No, I— I’m not,” she said, sounding suddenly drunk, her eyes unfocused as she tried to identify whatever face swam across the gleaming, silver surface of Gunnar’s jaw as he drew upon the souls of all the liars, cheats, and charlatans that had ever lived and ever would live.

“Right. You don’t want to cause any trouble. Why don’t you just give me the knife, and we’ll get out of here and get some fresh air?” Gunnar said, his hand empty.

“All— all right. That sounds fine,” she said. Gunnar spun her knife around his wrist and made it disappear.

“Fine, get her out of here. Our idiot secretary’ll give you a receipt on the way,” Xam said with a wave of his hand. “And you’re paying for that door!”

“Take it out of my winnings from the pool,” Gunnar said and took his slave with him.

He picked up Red Mist’s receipt on the way out and declined branding. He wouldn’t need her for long. The important thing now was to get her on his ship before she came to her senses.

“Are you going to kill me?” Red Mist asked.

“You’re not too familiar with the concept of slavery, are you?” Gunnar said.

“Not in any professional capacity,” she said with disdain. Explained the mask. No point prying. Not for now, anyway.

“Unusual for a crimson scourge.” Gunnar flagged down a carriage to take them to the port. Ticking clock and all.

“Ah, so you’ve heard of me.” She sounded proud of herself.

“Not so fast. You’re traveling with a whip, and I’ve never seen you at drinks with the rest of Xanathar’s slavery department,” Gunnar said. “Whaddaya want Phyristos for? He burn your face with acid or something?”

Red Mist turned away, almost coyly. “No. There’s a big bounty for him back in Immilmar.”

“Mm. Don’t they usually send you in pairs?” Gunnar asked.

“Usually. I’m flying solo on this one. Was, anyway,” she said and looked down.

“Don’t look so down at the mouth. Tell you what: I’ve got a little side project out your way. You help me find my mark, I’ll tear up your contract and your half of the fee will more than cover Phyristos,” Gunnar said with an outstretched hand.

Red Mist wrinkled her nose as though he’d extended a dead rat to her. “You pay your slaves?” She took his hand.

“Professional courtesy. If it got out I was using outside help to bring in a mark and not offering a fair split, what’s that say about my ability to get the job done?”

The carriage stopped. Gunnar paid the driver and led Red Mist up the gangplank onto his ship.

“Ladies first,” he said and tipped the harbormaster.

“Welcome to The Choice Cut,” Gunnar said with something like pride. “Have you eaten yet? I think the cook’s got some rothe cheese in the galley.”

Red Mist shook her head and looked uneasy on her feet with the pitch of the waves against the ship’s side.

The ship unmoored, pulled up the gangplank, and made its way out to sea. Gunnar’s first mate filled him in on happenings in his absence.

Red Mist finished her charcuterie board and leaned over the edge of the ship. The first mate dispatched a crewman to hover near her with a mop.

Gunnar went to check on her. “You all right? Not gonna be much good to me if we run into trouble. I can have the quartermaster dig up a wand of sea legs if you need it.”

Without turning around, she held the cheese knife to his groin.

“You did something to me. To my mind. Why did I come with you?” she said, drawing blood.

Gunnar swallowed and took a step back.

“If I didn’t need your skills, I’d show you how I usually teach my slaves manners when they pull that kind of thing on me.” Gunnar jammed a bandage down his trousers. “Rest assured, I won’t be able to do it again today, so your thoughts are your own.”

“Why should I trust you?” She turned to face him, her back to the ocean. Gunnar clenched his fist. If he pushed her over, no one would come for her.

“You shouldn’t, really. It’s rule number one in our game,” he said.

“We don’t play the same game. We don’t even play the same sport,” she said with disgust.

Gunnar nodded at the whip on her belt and rested his hand on his own. “We use the same equipment. Let me ask you this: would the prison in Immilmar have paid Phyristos?”

Red Mist rolled her eyes. “Here comes the part where you try to equivocate. Like you’ll turn me. Fine, I’ve got nothing better to do. No, don’t be stupid.”

“All right. Would they ever have let him go?” Gunnar asked.

“Of course not. Not after what he’d done,” she said.

“Fair enough. I assume he did something really bad, like selling magic items,” Gunnar said.

Red Mist spat on the deck with contempt. The mate behind her sighed with resignation and mopped it up.

“Housebreak that one soon, willya, cap’n?” he muttered. Gunner nodded and clapped the man on the shoulder.

“How do you think he got his title? Wouldn’t expect a Thayan to understand,” she said.

“Sure. So you’re selling him into slavery to the state. They’re free to do with him what they will: put him to work in a mine, kill him, or let him rot in a cell. You just don’t let your citizens enjoy the same right,” Gunner said.

“You just don’t understand. If you’re so smart, what do you need me for?” Red Mist asked.

“I need a guide. My quarry’s in Rashemen for the time being, and you know how foreigners, much less Thayan foreigners are looked on there. Even with the right paperwork, it would make finding him harder than it has to,” Gunnar said.

Red Mist scoffed. “Right, like you’d have the right paperwork.”

Gunnar held up a letter of dispensation from the Hathran granting him permission to carry weapons within their borders.

“You’ve been to Rashemen before?” Red Mist asked, sounding almost impressed.

“No,” Gunnar said.

“Then that’s a fake? It looks almost like—“ she reached into her shirt for her own and came up empty handed.

“Here. I don’t need it anymore,” Gunnar said, producing her letter from up his sleeve. She took it and slapped him for his trouble. Even through his silvertongue mask, he felt it.

“Relax. That’s the only merchandise I laid my hands on,” he said.

“Why didn’t I feel anything? When did you—“

“Trade secret, I’m afraid. Anyway, it might be good for you to familiarize yourself with our quarry if you’re going to help me catch him.” Gunnar produced a wanted poster.

“Aartosa the Golden. Herald of—“ Gunnar began to read the poster aloud for Red Mist’s benefit.

“—of the dragon X’launt! I knew I recognized the name of this ship from somewhere!” Red Mist snapped her fingers as something clicked for her.

“So you’ve heard of me,” Gunnar said.

“Not you specifically. Suppose now’s as good a time as any to find out if any of it’s true.” Red Mist stared out at the open ocean. There wasn’t another ship in sight.

“Go for it.” Gunnar took out his pipe and stood downwind of her before lighting it.

“I heard X’launt was trying to transform himself into one of those dragons ascendant. But he couldn’t do it right away. He was so rich, he had money all over Toril. So he had to spend years getting all his exarchs to transfer his holdings someplace, so he could eat all his gold. I heard you snuck onto one of their ships, The Choice Cut, killed everyone onboard, and made off with the treasure yourself. It put him behind schedule and he hasn’t been able to ascend yet. He’s had his exarchs gunning for you ever since,” Red Mist said.

Gunnar smiled. “Interesting how different a story becomes after a few retellings, isn’t it?”

“So what, it’s all talk? You bought yourself a ship and gave it the same name to look tough?” Red Mist rested her hand on the ship’s name over the side, presumably checking how fresh the paint was.

“Not exactly.” Gunnar blew a smoke ring and watched it drift away on the wind. “X’launt did have a lot of wealth to his name, but he wasn’t dumb enough to send out a fleet of ships full of gold. They’d be easy targets, and slow ‘em down, besides. He liquidated his assets into something easier to transport.”

“All right, fine, so diamonds instead of gold.” Red Mist rubbed her eyes as salt spray kicked up over the edge of the ship.

“No. And I didn’t sneak onto this ship. I openly commandeered it with a letter of marque from whatever country it was sailing out from. I forget. Aside from the captain, I didn’t have to spill any blood.” Gunnar said.

“What about the treasure?” Red Mist asked.

“Cap’n. We’re coming up on Immilmar,” the first mate said.

“Good man. Give our papers to the port authority when they board. Everything should be in order. If it’s not, take it outta petty cash.” Gunnar handed him a sheaf of papers and clapped him on the bare shoulder as he turned to depart.

Red Mist saw the web of whip scars across his back and a slaver’s brand at the base of his neck.

“You kept it,” she whispered, horrified.

“I knew you’d get there eventually. X’launt figured if he had to swallow his entire hoard, he might as well convert his money into something he’d enjoy eating first. I forget exactly how many head he had on this ship when I took it, but they were easily worth five thousand Thayan, if they were worth a penny.”

“That’s horrible,” Red Mist said.

“Well, I don’t know about you, but I’d rather eat a steak than a handful of coins any day,” Gunnar said. “While we’re here, might as well pick up some of those smoked sausages Rashemi sell for the boys.”

“I didn’t mean the dragon. That’s in their nature. I meant you. You don’t even think of them as people, do you?” Red Mist asked, indignant.

“Is that so?” Gunnar snapped his fingers. The man swabbing the deck came over.

“You. What happened the day I claimed command over this ship?” Gunnar asked.

“You told us where we was really bein’ sent, cap’n. That thing’s dinner table. Asked if we’d rather stay here crewin’ this here ship,” he said.

“And do you and the men regret your decision?” Gunnar asked, his eyes on Red Mist.

“No, sir,” he said. Gunnar waved him away.

Gunnar and Red Mist disembarked the ship. After a few more bribes to the necessary individuals, and flashing his papers here and there, they were allowed into town to begin their hunt.

“This is your turf, so I’ll let you take the lead. Aartosa’s Rashemi. What’s the fastest way for him to get arrested around here?” Gunnar asked.

Red Mist walked a few paces in front of him to show her superiority, even though it meant showing him her back. Amateur. He’d given her knife back, so perhaps that explained her confidence.

“If he killed another Rashemi, stole their property. That’s normal property, not people-property,” she scolded. “Or if he did something against the Hathrans, obviously. Everyone’d be on the lookout for him. Why, what’d he do?”

Gunnar wrote the imagined crimes on Aartosa’s wanted poster.

“Oh, all of that, I suppose. Whatever’s unfashionable here. That’ll help us catch him, after all,” Gunnar said.

Red Mist sighed. “If you’re lying, then don’t put that he committed a crime against the Hathrans. If he’d done that, then they’d have killed him themselves.”

Gunnar erased it from Aartosa’s rap sheet. “Got it. Thanks,” he said, doing his best to be amiable. Red Mist didn’t return the courtesy.

“You got any more of those?” she asked. “I mean, not everyone can read around here, but if anyone’s seen him, I can ask people at the lodge to start passing them out.”

“That’s not a bad idea,” Gunnar said, wary to avoid shooting down all her ideas. “But if we did that, then even if they couldn’t read the reward, they’d know he was valuable enough to be hunted. They might undercut us and find him first. Where would you be then?”

Red Mist saw a Hathran silently patrolling the town square. She gave her a nod of respect and allowed her to carry on her duties.

“What’s to stop me from screaming? Letting the Hathran take care of you,” Red Mist hissed.

“I figure if that were an option, you would’ve done it by now. I don’t know why it isn’t. I don’t particularly care.” Gunnar drew his cloak around himself. It looked like snow.

The pair arrived at a nearby snow tiger lodge. Red Mist said a quiet prayer at a statue outside to its spirit guardian. Gunnar stayed quiet, unsure of what to do with his hands.

They got inside out of the cold. Red Mist ordered a bottle of jhuild. Gunnar was fond of the stuff. He tried to keep a small supply in the hold of his ship.

“Has the Golden shone his light around here lately?” Red Mist asked their barmaid. She poured a glass for her and eyed Gunnar with suspicion.

“I’ll have some. I can pay,” he reassured her. She suppressed a giggle and filled his glass.

“He has. Matter of fact, I heard he’s recruiting a band of warriors by Lake Ashane. Off on some grand adventure, no doubt. I hear his master’s up in the great game. Is your friend, ah, familiar?” she asked.

Red Mist held out her hand. “Don’t worry. He’s cool.” The barmaid dropped a few coins into Red Mist’s hand. “Won something in the pool,” she explained once the barmaid left.

“I’ll drink to that.” Gunnar raised his glass and toasted her. He sipped his jhuild and choked, spraying the wine in her face. She laughed even though her mouth had been open.

“No matter how many times I see it, I’ll never get sick of that. Real stuff’s stronger’n that watered down crap you foreigners buy, huh?” she teased.

Gunnar coughed and nodded. “Happens to everyone their first time, I gather.”

“More or less,” she said.

“Is that where you got your nickname?” Gunnar offered her his handkerchief.

She took it and dried off her mask. “None of your business. Anyway, since Aartosa’s operating in the open, I don’t figure he’s actually committed any crime, so he won’t be on the lookout for someone to capture him.”

“Makes sense,” Gunnar said. “What’re you thinking?”

“Take a page from your book,” she said. “We’ll go find him in the open.”

If Gunnar didn’t know better, he’d have said the sailor standing next to him on the docks was a man. Red Mist was a dab hand at disguise, he had to give her that. For the time being, he addressed her aloud as Ralmisch.

Gunnar hadn’t bothered to disguise himself beyond some shabby clothes. Since Aartosa didn’t know him, there was no reason for him to recognize his face with a cursory glance.

The two of them were well down the line for recruitment. It couldn’t hurt their cover to make small talk.

“Whaddaya suppose this crew’s for?” Red Mist asked him, affecting a deeper pitch.

“Figure he’s up to his old tricks,” Gunnar said with a wink. X’launt still hadn’t gotten his whole hoard down his gullet.

“Maybe. Could be something new.” She didn’t sound sure.

Soon enough, it was their turn at the table. Aartosa wasn’t there himself, of course, just someone in his employ.

“Let’s have it. What do you do?” he asked Red Mist.

“Hand-to-hand. Anyone gets in the boss’s face, I’ll give him what for,” she said with a clenched fist.

“Uh huh. Go have a crack at our boatswain. You pin him for ten seconds, you’re onboard,” he said without looking up from his clipboard.

Red Mist broke the boatswain’s arm so Gunnar could see white bone from ten paces away. She was onboard without a word about it.

“Next!” the man at the table barked.

“I’m just, well I’m looking for three hots and a cot, sir. I’m not particular. Just put a mop in me ‘ands and I won’t bother you none,” Gunnar stammered, hunching his back to look weak and pathetic.

“Hmph. You’re old for a cabin boy, but you’ll do. On the ship before I change my mind, dog,” the man said and snapped his fingers, indicating where Gunnar was to go with a gesture of his thumb, not looking him in the eye.

There wasn’t long to wait before they shoved off. Gunnar was put to work immediately. He looked busy, but didn’t swab the deck too quickly, so he could take in his surroundings.

Red Mist was chumming around with the officers, laughing and drinking. No sight of the captain yet.

“Hear the weather’s gonna turn bad later,” another man mopping muttered to him. “Don’t fancy taking a trip into the drink.”

“Me neither. I ain’t too worried, though. Never leave home without me bottle of air,” Gunnar said with a smile.

“Hmph. Sure know I’d rest easier if we waited til tomorrow to set sail. Kossuth knows why we have to rush. Captain ain’t even told us what we’re sailin’ to,” the man said. “Damn bucket’s empty.” He sighed.

“Lemme get that for you,” Gunnar said and picked it up. The man nodded in thanks.

Gunnar had affected a limp earlier, so he wouldn’t appear to be a threat, and stayed in character as he ambled across the deck. He steadied himself on his mop as the ship disembarked and quickly got onto the open water.

Gunnar glimpsed the captain loitering outside the wheelhouse. Must’ve come out when he wasn’t looking.

He filled both buckets with water and started cleaning behind Aartosa. The boatswain blew his whistle: all hands on deck. The men stopped their shanty and directed their attention up front.

Gunnar studied his quarry. He shakily set down his mop.

“Oi, hurry up, you codger. Gotta address the men,” Aartosa said without turning around. His hand was still on the pommel of his saber. Not yet.

“Right, sir. Sorry, sir. Just setting me kit down,” Gunnar said.

“Hmph.” Aartosa grunted. Gunnar saw his shadow hold its hands up in a dramatic gesture before beginning his speech.

He never had the chance.

With Aartosa’s hand empty, there wasn’t a thing left on him Gunnar couldn’t steal.

He picked Aartosa clean in the blink of an eye. Everything in his possession now lay in Gunnar’s hidey hole. Aartosa stood before the crew without a stitch on.

Gunnar couldn’t afford to gloat. He clubbed him in the back of the head with a roll of coins clenched in his fist and paralyzed him. He tied him up, a coil of rope never far on a ship, jammed a bottle of air behind his teeth, and made the captain disappear as well.

“Listen up, swine!” Gunnar shouted and threw back his hood. “This man is an errand boy of the monster X’launt! He planned to deliver you to the thing’s stomach. I’m taking him back to Bezantur and claiming the price on his head. What you do with yourselves after that’s of no concern to me. But if you get in my way, there’ll be trouble. Understand?” He pulled Red Mist’s borrowed bandana down from his face and let the silver light of his mask spill out to the sailors before him. They were hirelings. Strangers. They had no reason to side with with Aartosa. Nothing to gain from it. Convincing himself was just as important as convincing them.

“Not so fast!” Red Mist yelled from behind him.

Gunnar turned around and saw a wanted poster with his own face pinned to the mast with a knife.

Murder. Kidnapping. Theft. Piracy. And a hefty reward.

“This man is wanted in Immilmar for crimes against every authority before man and god alike. A thousand gold pieces to the man who helps me capture him!” Red Mist drew her sword. Gunnar couldn’t take it from her now.

There was no way his magic could compete with the greed of man.

Gunnar clicked his heels together and walked on the air up the mast. Red Mist swung up toward him on a rope from the mainsail. Gunnar retrieved his whip and lashed out at her, catching her across the face.

Her mask took the worst of it, though one eye was already swollen shut. It dropped a long, long way to the deck. On her cheek, as he’d surmised, was the brand of a slave, escaped from Thay’s gladiator pits.

“What are you doing?” Gunnar blocked her sword strikes with the leather bracelet around his forearm. “We had a deal!”

“I don’t make deals with things like you! I’m going to get free of you and I’m going to bring you to justice. You’re not the scariest thing I’ve ever fought. You’re not even close!” Red Mist took her blade between her teeth, and crushed the tendons of his wrist in her hand, digging in her nails. He dropped his whip with a spasm of his fingers.

She kneed him in the groin and swung away, circling around the mast. Gunnar gasped as a splinterbolt lodged itself in his chest.

“Careful! He’s worth more alive, stupid!” one of the crewmen shouted to another as he took aim.

“Fire!” shouted the first mate. Wands upon wands of all shapes and sizes flicked out from sleeves and boots and belts and the hems of the mens’ trousers. Gunnar was blinded, wrapped in kelp, and wracked with indescribable pain. His legs dangled beneath him, withered and useless.

Red Mist completed her revolution around the mast and looped the rope around his neck.

Gunnar grabbed at the noose and tried to untie it, but his arms had fused into a single, useless limb.

“Welcome to the club, kid. Knew I’d make a slaver of you after all,” Gunnar choked as the pounding of his blood grew louder in his ears.

“I’m nothing like you.” Red Mist pulled the rope tighter.

“Then kill me,” Gunnar gasped with his final breath.

“No. You don’t deserve it.” Red Mist said.

Gunnar wasn’t surprised to awaken the next morning. He was bound in rope, but the rest of his ailments had deserted him. He got uneasily to his feet, the men circled up around him. Behind him, a plank jutted from the ship’s edge over the open ocean.

The side of his head stung fiercely, but he couldn’t reach it to rub at it.

“The men took a vote, and we decided we’d rather not keep you around. Any last words?” Red Mist said. She wore a crimson bicorn. Looked like they had a new captain.

“What about the reward? Or did they just forget about that?” Gunnar said.

Red Mist pulled a necklace from her cleavage. She wasn’t in disguise anymore. No one seemed to care. On it was Gunnar’s severed ear.

“Hathrans’ divination can verify I’ve taken care of you. I can pick up Phyristos and bring him to justice and then these men can be on their way,” Red Mist said.

“Yeah, yeah, that’s what they all say. I’m allowed one last request, right?” Gunnar asked. He stood on the plank in his small clothes. His equipment had been taken. He’d have to pick up Aartosa later. Or Red Mist could deal with him when he reappeared from the secret pocket inside his trousers. Either way.

Red Mist sneered, but the murmuring of the crew made it clear she couldn’t refuse and still hold the high ground with them.

“Fine. What is it?” she asked.

“One last drink. The iron flask in my vest. Don’t even have to untie my hands, just put it in my mouth and I’ll die quietly.” Gunnar hoped none of them had appraised his gear yet.

“You heard the man.” Red Mist snapped her fingers. Already, she had a taste for command. By the time Gunnar had regrouped, he was sure she’d be a fine slaver in her own right.

The man who’d swabbed by Gunnar’s side unscrewed the flask’s cap and put its neck between Gunnar’s teeth.

Gunnar took a deep breath of the magically generated air within. He dove off the plank and the moment the water swallowed him up, used his magic to open space itself and dove inside his bottle of air, the cap closing behind him.

***

“Where to now, captain?” the first mate asked Red Mist. He dusted off her mask and handed it to her.

She turned it over in her hands and leaned over the edge of the ship. After the last of the bubbles had risen to the water’s surface and popped, she glimpsed her reflection in it.

She tore up Gunnar’s papers saying he owned her and threw them overboard. The mask followed. She didn’t need it anymore. Without it, she felt lighter already.

“Back to Immilmar.” She gestured to the open sky. “Bring me that sunrise.”

NE silverbrow human human paragon 1/incarnate 2/human paragon 3/hoardstealer 7/thayan slaver 5/hoardstealer 10

str 12
dex 15
con 15 (increases at 12 and 16)
int 16 (increases at 4, 8, and 20 here)
wis 10
cha 8

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Human Paragon 1
+0
+0
+0
+2
appraise 4, ea 4, hide 4, ms 4, search 4, sleight of hand 4, tumble 4
Able Learner, Dragon Tail
(custom skill list: appraise, dd, ea, hide, intimidate, ms, ol, search, sleight of hand, tumble), Adaptive learning

2nd
Incarnate 1
+0
+2
+0
+4
ol 4, search 1 (5)

Aura, detect opposition

3rd
Incarnate 2
+1
+3
+0
+5
dd 4, search 1 (6)
martial study (shadow blade technique)
Chakra bind (crown)

4th
Human Paragon 2
+2
+3
+0
+6
appraise 3 (7), hide 3 (7), ms 1 (5)

Bonus Feat (shape soulmeld: brass mane)

5th
Human Paragon 3
+3
+4
+1
+6
appraise 1 (8), hide 1 (8), ms 3 (8), search 2 (8)

Ability boost +2 (intelligence)

6th
Hoardstealer 1
+3
+4
+3
+6
intimidate 5, sleight of hand 4 (9), tumble 1 (5)
master pickpocket
Darkvision +30 ft., trapfinding

7th
Hoardstealer 2
+4
+4
+4
+6
intimidate 1 (6), use rope 5, tumble 4 (9)

Hide from dragons 1/day

8th
Hoardstealer 3
+5
+5
+4
+7
appraise 2 (10), balance 5, intimidate 2 (8), tumble 2 (11)

Trap sense +2, deep pockets

9th
Hoardstealer 4
+6/+1
+5
+5
+7
intimidate 3 (11), sleight of hand 3 (12), tumble 1 (12), umd 4
martial study (shadow jaunt)
Treasure dowsing 1/day

10th
Hoardstealer 5
+6/+1
+5
+5
+7
bluff 1, sleight of hand 1 (13), umd 9 (13)

Darkvision +60 ft.

11th
Hoardstealer 6
+7/+2
+6
+6
+8
bluff 7 (8), sleight of hand 1 (14), umd 1 (14), never outnumbered

Trap sense +4, hide from dragons 2/day

12th
Hoardstealer 7
+8/+3
+6
+6
+8
bluff 5 (13), sleight of hand 1 (15), umd 1 (15) mosquito’s bite
martial stance (assassin’s stance)
Treasure dowsing 2/day

13th
Thayan Slaver 1
+8/+3
+6
+8
+8
forgery 3, intimidate 5 (16), umd 1 (16)

Ruthless beating, enervating attack

14th
Thayan Slaver 2
+9/+4
+6
+9
+8
forgery 7 (10), intimidate 1 (17), umd 1 (17)

Break will

15th
Thayan Slaver 3
+10/+5
+7
+9
+9
diplo 2, forgery 5 (15), intimidate 1 (18), umd 1 (18)
open lesser chakra (arms)

16th
Thayan Slaver 4
+10/+5
+7
+10
+9
diplo 4 (6), forgery 1 (16), intimidate 1 (19), umd 1 (19), social recovery

Sneak attack +1d6

17th
Thayan Slaver 5
+10/+5
+7
+10
+9
diplo 7 (13), forgery 1 (20), intimidate 1 (20), umd 1 (20)

Crippling strike

18th
Hoardstealer 8
+11/+6/+1
+7
+11
+9
diplo 4 (17), intimidate 1 (21), sleight of hand 6 (21)
open greater chakra (throat)
Skill mastery (appraise, bluff, diplo, forgery, intimidate, sleight of hand, tumble, umd)

19th
Hoardstealer 9
+11/+6/+1
+8
+11
+10
bluff 9 (22), intimidate 1 (22), sleight of hand 1 (22)

Darkvision +90 ft., trap sense +6

20th
Hoardstealer 10
+12/+7/+2
+8
+12
+10
bluff 1 (23), diplo 2 (19), intimidate 1 (23), sleight of hand 1 (23), 8 free

Treasure dowsing 3/day, hide from dragons 3/day

Come on, chefs, pick up your axes, tell hoardstealer we’ll pay its taxes.

You’re doing a lot of heavy lifting and mise en place for now. It’s not glamorous, but that doesn’t mean you can’t do a lot of cool stuff while you’re here.

Certain taxes aren’t worth investing in after they’re paid, namely open lock, a skill which does literally nothing. The listed example for disable device is jamming a lock (either in the open or closed position, your choice) so your points are better spent elsewhere to make you a better hoardstealer.

Human paragon’s roll-your-own skill list (provided helpfully in the class features column) lets you pay all hoardstealer’s taxes and have a few goodies of your own for later, including the always-important tumble and the fun and flavorful sleight of hand.

Able learner means all ten of your skills, even the ones you didn’t have room to buy ranks in right now (namely intimidate, which becomes important later) can be bought at-cost from now on.

The dragon tail (soulmeld) is up and running and provides a reliable attack to lash out at enemies with your essentia making it hit harder. You gain access to it through your dragonblood.

You also have the dragon tail feat. This gives you a tail that always exists and can be used in addition to the meld of the same name. You can use it to make secondary natural attacks, which is handy at low levels and stays useful throughout your career.

You’ve already got your crown bind, and incarnate offers all its melds, opening up the normal doors, and providing valuable utility, such as the airstep sandals for flight and the necrocarnum circlet for an endless supply of zombies, very handy at low levels and later as well. As an evil incarnate, you’ve got access to all the necrocarnum melds, greatly boosting your versatility.

Your dragonblood from silverbrow human also gives you access to another exclusive meld, the elder spirit, which bolsters your intimidate checks, along with umd, arcana, and history (plus letting you make them untrained) and giving immunity to frightful presence, sleep, and paralysis. Highly useful since hoardstealer expects you to cross swords with dragons.

You’ve also nabbed access to brass mane through human paragon’s bonus feat. Like elder spirit, this provides a bonus to intimidate, and it’s of a different type, so the two stack.

Martial study is also here to pay taxes, and shadow blade technique provides some more extra damage, which never hurts.

Shape melds, shoot dissolving spittle, fly around, and inflict pain on your enemies.

Congratulations. You’re in hoardstealer. It requiring hide and move silently but not providing them has been discussed. It being a class that is focused on stealing things, but not providing sleight of hand has not.

Fortunately, I have remedied this.

Human paragon provides sleight of hand. It was a class skill earlier, so its cap is raised, and I can buy it at cost thanks to able learner, so that’s what I did. Same with intimidate, which I’m buying to pay more taxes.

Umd is the best skill in the game, and I waited to buy ranks in it until I could do so with it being a class skill since the cap would be higher. This way, you’ll be able to enjoy spells from other spell lists in addition to your own.

As to skills, like all skillful classes, you’re being pulled in a few different directions covering your bases at the low-to mid levels. For this reason, in a fashion similar to open lock, it’s not worth it to sink points into search and dd every level when you can use your wealth by level and your hoardstealer class feature, umd, to cast find traps, summon celestial dead monkey, etc. Consequently, that’s where your points are going.

Master pickpocket lets you take anything from an adjacent opponent as long as it’s not in their hand, and it’s only a -10 to do it as a free action. Strip your enemies of dangerous items. This will make fighting them a lot easier. Your deep pockets ability is already online, so that’s a handy place to stow everyone’s confiscated gear.

Your treasure dowsing is online, which will help you find a good mark to steal from, and also detect counterfeit coins or other valuables. Shadow jaunt enables tactical teleportation.

You can hide from dragons and see in the dark. Combat functions largely the same way, and you’re no longer flat-footed while balancing.

Semi-related to hoardstealer requiring hide and move silently and not providing them as class skills, hoardstealer requires a bunch of ranks in appraise, but provides no useful outlet for them. I cannot let this go unaddressed.

Enter Thayan slaver.

“Not all treasure is silver and gold, mate.”

Contrary to the captain’s feelings, by raw, people and other monsters are cargo.

Lords of madness page 101 details the rules as follows:

Cost=(cr, minimum 1)^2 x 100gp

So, even with a lean crop of level 1 human commoners, you’d only need to obtain 50 of them to hit the value of 5,000gp for entry into hoardstealer, which requires a character to locate and recover a treasure hoard from a dragon (or otherwise.) Here, I went with otherwise.

If the assortment of slaves you pick up is more diverse, or you’ve got something cool like a troll or giant, you’ll need even fewer of them. They’ll fit on a small ship easily.

Thayan slaver also grants proficiency with the tower shield, sap, whip, net, and the always-awesome spiked chain, so take advantage of these goodies when the situation arises. It also provides access to its own fantastic spell list, supplementing hoardstealer’s (listed below for ease of reference) and you can use slots or wands without even needing a roll.

Assassin’s stance is up and running, providing access to Thayan slaver. It gives you the ability to deal nonlethal damage with no penalty, and even dole out nonlethal sneak attacks.

Enervating attack provides a very useful tool in your arsenal. Once you’ve picked a target, you can study him prior to stripping him of items and protective gear via master pickpocket as free actions, and then paralyze them with your attack, since they won’t have registered you as an enemy due to your high bonus with sleight of hand checks. They are further boosted thanks to the theft gloves and necrocarnum touch from your incarnate levels, even without taking normal equipment into account.

Once they’re paralyzed, tie them up or manacle them, and into your deep pockets they go. Take them back to your lair post haste, or if you’re more than 10 minutes away from a good dump site, duct tape a bottle of air or similar in their mouth beforehand so they won’t suffocate. Thayan slaver’s spells, such as sequester, will also help.

Your deep pockets have plenty of room, so you can grab plenty of cargo, assuming you’ve got a ship or other hold established in a large urban area where a few missing people won’t be noticed.

Break will lets you whomp the heck out of your enemies’ wisdom, so do that as much as you can. Never outnumbered means you can zap a bunch of people with nonmagical wisdom damage at once, as well. Not too shabby. Once enemies are unconscious from dropping to 0 wisdom: strip ‘em, tie ‘em up, put ‘em in the hole.

“But chef, why the heck do you have all those ranks in forgery?” I hear you asking.

It’s generally known forgery is opposed by forgery and no one takes ranks in forgery. But that’s just not good enough for me.

The only listed modifiers for a mark to resist my forgery attempt are knowing the type of document I’m forging and knowing the handwriting (if applicable)

So at the very worst, they get a +4. And let’s face it, most npcs you’ll be using this against are either not going to have a bonus, or will have a negligible one.

Your ranks, alongside your prodigious intelligence, will help you get your bonus sky high, even without taking normal equipment into account.

But it’s necessary for non-epic checks to have a sample of what you’re forging. This isn’t always easy.

Well, it is for you.

Let’s say there’s a document you anticipate needing to forge. For example, special dispensation to carry weapons in town, a writ from the local noble, papers saying your quarry is an escaped slave (if you’re prowling around in a slave state) or a dangerous criminal and you’re bounty hunting or legally apprehending him (if you’re not) Find someone who would have that and use master pickpocket to relieve them of it.

Forging a 1 page document, such as an ID, warrant for your quarry’s arrest, or letter of credit only takes a minute. Depending on what the document is, you might reverse pickpocket the thing back into your mark’s pocket, or just throw it in the gutter once you’ve got what you need. Not your problem.

You see, hoardstealer doesn’t provide hide or move silently as class skills. Clearly, this means that it doesn’t want you to sneak around in order to obtain valuables. If it did, it would give you those skills. Consequently, it must intend for you to operate in plain sight. So that’s what we do, and why we follow the class’s intended design and do not further invest in hide or move silently. This is also why you don’t need darkstalker.

Your arm chakra’s open now as well, offering you the requisite goodies from your assortment of melds, including the always-useful necrocarnum touch. It boosts your sleight of hand even further (with a profane bonus to boot, so it will stack with the theft gloves) and lets you fire the touch attack off as a ray in addition to in melee.

Steal literally everything that’s not in your enemy’s hand. Punch him in the butt cheek to paralyze him and steal what’s in his hand too. Put him in your pocket. Sell him. Thanks, hoardstealer.

You’re done with hoardstealer and Thayan slaver as well. Crippling strike’s up now, so you can dole out strength damage with your sneak attacks to make your enemies go down easier.

Hoardstealer generously gives you skill mastery with all your favorite skills and then some, including bluff, diplo, forgery, intimidate, sleight of hand, and umd, so you’ll basically never fail them again.

Your throat chakra is open, allowing you to bind all those melds. Of particular note are your brass mane, letting you fatigue all enemies nearby, and your silvertongue mask, offering an at-will suggestion effect. Enjoy these.

You operate largely the same way in and out of combat, but your numbers are larger. The world is yours. Steal it.

Thayan Slaver Spells per Day

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

13th
-
0
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

14th
-
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

15th
-
1
0
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

16th
-
1
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

17th
-
2
1
0
-
-
-
-
-
-

18th
-
2
1
0
-
-
-
-
-
-

19th
-
2
1
0
-
-
-
-
-
-

20th
-
2
1
0
-
-
-
-
-
-

1: arcane lock, alarm, burning hands, change self, command, detect thoughts, knock, ray of enfeeblement, true strike.
2: alter self, fear, hold person, invisibility, misdirection, remove paralysis.
3: dominate person, greater command, hold monster, improved invisibility, nondetection.
4: enervation, locate creature, mind fog, sequester, veil.

races of destiny: able learner
races of the dragon: dragon tail, silverbrow human
unapproachable east: thayan slaver
srd: human paragon
tome of battle: martial study, martial stance
city of stormreach: master pickpocket
slavery rules: lords of madness
dragon magic: draconic soulmelds
complete scoundrel: skilltricks

Heliomance

2018-07-04, 07:09 AM

Entry number 12

Tag Baggit
CN Changeling Rogue 2/Shadowcaster 3/Hoardstealer 10/Recaster 5

Tag It
Ability Scores8 Str, 16 Dex, 14 Con, 16 Int, 10 Wis, 12 Cha

Increase Int at all opportunities.

Build Table

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Changeling Martial Rogue 1
+0
+0
+2
+0
Hide 4, Move Silently 4, Search 4, Appraise 4, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Escape Artist 4, Gather Information 4, Sense Motive 4, Bluff 4, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Sleight of Hand 4
Able Learner, Constant GuardianB
Social Intuition

2nd
Shadowcaster 1
+0
+2
+2
+2
Hide 5, Move Silently 5, Search 5, Appraise 5, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Escape Artist 4, Gather Information 4, Sense Motive 4, Bluff 5, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Sleight of Hand 4
-
Fundamentals of Shadow, Apprentice Mysteries

3rd
Shadowcaster 2
+1
+3
+2
+3
Hide 6, Move Silently 6, Search 6, Appraise 6, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Escape Artist 4, Gather Information 4, Sense Motive 5, Bluff 5, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Sleight of Hand 4
Darkstalker, Extend SpellB
-

4th
Shadowcaster 3
+1
+3
+3
+3
Hide 7, Move Silently 7, Search 7, Appraise 7, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Escape Artist 4, Gather Information 4, Sense Motive 5, Bluff 5, Diplomacy 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Sleight of Hand 4
-
Umbral Sight (Darkvision 30ft)

5th
Martial Rogue 2
+2
+3
+4
+3
Hide 8, Move Silently 8, Search 8, Appraise 8, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Escape Artist 4, Gather Information 4, Sense Motive 5, Bluff 5, Diplomacy 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Sleight of Hand 5, Use Magic Device 5, Spellcraft 1
Dutiful GuardianB
Evasion

6th
Hoardstealer 1
+2
+3
+6
+3
Hide 9, Move Silently 9, Search 9, Appraise 8, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Escape Artist 4, Gather Information 5, Sense Motive 5, Bluff 5, Diplomacy 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Sleight of Hand 5, Use Magic Device 9, Spellcraft 2
Cunning Evasion
Darkvision +30ft, Trapfinding

7th
Hoardstealer 2
+3
+3
+7
+3
Hide 10, Move Silently 10, Search 10, Appraise 8, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Escape Artist 4, Gather Information 5, Sense Motive 6, Bluff 6, Diplomacy 6, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Sleight of Hand 6, Use Magic Device 10, Spellcraft 3
-
Hide From Dragons 1/day

8th
Hoardstealer 3
+4
+4
+7
+4
Hide 11, Move Silently 11, Search 11, Appraise 8, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Escape Artist 4, Gather Information 6, Sense Motive 7, Bluff 7, Diplomacy 7, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Sleight of Hand 7, Use Magic Device 11, Spellcraft 4
-
Trap Sense +2, Deep Pockets

9th
Hoardstealer 4
+5
+4
+8
+4
Hide 12, Move Silently 12, Search 12, Appraise 8, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Escape Artist 4, Gather Information 7, Sense Motive 8, Bluff 8, Diplomacy 8, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Sleight of Hand 8, Use Magic Device 12, Spellcraft 5
Trap Sensitivity
Treasure Dowsing 1/day

10th
Hoardstealer 5
+5
+4
+8
+4
Hide 13, Move Silently 13, Search 13, Appraise 8, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Escape Artist 4, Gather Information 8, Sense Motive 9, Bluff 9, Diplomacy 9, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Sleight of Hand 9, Use Magic Device 13, Spellcraft 6
-
Darkvision +60ft

11th
Hoardstealer 6
+6
+5
+9
+5
Hide 14, Move Silently 14, Search 14, Appraise 8, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Escape Artist 4, Gather Information 9, Sense Motive 10, Bluff 10, Diplomacy 10, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Sleight of Hand 10, Use Magic Device 14, Spellcraft 7
-
Trap Sense +4, Hide From Dragons 2/day

12th
Hoardstealer 7
+7
+5
+9
+5
Hide 15, Move Silently 15, Search 15, Appraise 8, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Escape Artist 4, Gather Information 10, Sense Motive 11, Bluff 11, Diplomacy 11, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Sleight of Hand 11, Use Magic Device 15, Spellcraft 8
Maximize Spell
Treasure Dowsing 2/day

13th
Recaster 1
+7
+5
+9
+7
Hide 16, Move Silently 16, Search 16, Appraise 8, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Escape Artist 4, Gather Information 10, Sense Motive 11, Bluff 11, Diplomacy 11, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Sleight of Hand 12, Use Magic Device 16, Spellcraft 8, Concentration 1
-
Metamorphic Spell (Components)

14th
Recaster 2
+8
+5
+9
+8
Hide 17, Move Silently 17, Search 17, Appraise 8, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Escape Artist 4, Gather Information 10, Sense Motive 11, Bluff 11, Diplomacy 12, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Sleight of Hand 12, Use Magic Device 17, Spellcraft 8, Concentration 2
-
Expanded Knowledge (Shivering Touch), Sudden Metamagic (Maximize Spell)

15th
Recaster 3
+8
+6
+10
+8
Hide 18, Move Silently 18, Search 18, Appraise 8, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Escape Artist 4, Gather Information 10, Sense Motive 11, Bluff 12, Diplomacy 12, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Sleight of Hand 12, Use Magic Device 18, Spellcraft 8, Concentration 3
Spell Focus (Illusion)
Metamorphic Spell (Time)

16th
Recaster 4
+9
+6
+10
+9
Hide 19, Move Silently 19, Search 19, Appraise 8, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Escape Artist 4, Gather Information 10, Sense Motive 12, Bluff 12, Diplomacy 12, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Sleight of Hand 12, Use Magic Device 19, Spellcraft 8, Concentration 5
-
Expanded Knowledge (Invisibility, Mass), Sudden Metamagic (Extend Spell)

17th
Recaster 5
+9
+6
+10
+9
Hide 20, Move Silently 20, Search 20, Appraise 8, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Escape Artist 4, Gather Information 12, Sense Motive 12, Bluff 12, Diplomacy 12, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Sleight of Hand 13, Use Magic Device 20, Spellcraft 8, Concentration 5
-
Metamorphic Spell (Space)

18th
Hoardstealer 8
+10
+6
+11
+9
Hide 21, Move Silently 21, Search 21, Appraise 8, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Escape Artist 4, Gather Information 13, Sense Motive 13, Bluff 14, Diplomacy 14, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Sleight of Hand 14, Use Magic Device 21, Spellcraft 8, Concentration 5
Evasive Maneuvers
Skill Mastery (Hide, Move Silently, Use Magic Device, Sleight of Hand, Search, Spellcraft, Concentration, Knowledge (Arcana))

19th
Hoardstealer 9
+10
+7
+11
+10
Hide 22, Move Silently 22, Search 22, Appraise 8, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Escape Artist 4, Gather Information 15, Sense Motive 15, Bluff 15, Diplomacy 15, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Sleight of Hand 15, Use Magic Device 22, Spellcraft 8, Concentration 5
-
Darkvision +90ft, Trap Sense +6

20th
Hoardstealer 10
+11
+7
+12
+10
Hide 23, Move Silently 23, Search 23, Appraise 8, Disable Device 4, Open Lock 4, Escape Artist 4, Gather Information 16, Sense Motive 16, Bluff 16, Diplomacy 17, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Sleight of Hand 17, Use Magic Device 23, Spellcraft 8, Concentration 5
-
Treasure Dowsing 3/day, Hide From Dragons 3/day

Mysteries and Spells
Mysteries
Fundamentals: Umbral Hand, Sight Obscured, Black Candle
1st Level Mysteries: Quicker Than The Eye, Bend Perspective
2nd Level Mysteries: Piercing Sight

Spells/Day

Level
1st
2nd
3rd
4th

6th
0
-
-
-

7th
1
-
-
-

8th
1
0
-
-

9th
1
1
-
-

10th
1
1
0
-

11th
1
1
1
-

12th
2
1
1
0

13th
2
1
1
0

14th
2
1
1
1

15th
2
2
1
1

16th
2
2
2
1

*Does not include bonus spells for a high Int score.
Casting continues to progress past 16th level, but this only increases CL as Spells/Day cap out at 10 levels of effective Hoardstealer casting.

Bag ItLevel 5“You’re a burglar aren’t you? Get in there and burgle something!” The dwarf chieftain glowered at the halfling figure before him.

“Alright. Wait here,” Tag stepped into the darkness of the tunnel. He took a deep breath and felt his eyes adjust to the blackness. “Ugh. Dwarves,” he muttered to himself. “Should have seen this coming, really.” After one more final sigh, he steadied himself and proceeded on in silence, finally coming to what had once been a dwarven mead hall. Sitting at the far side, preening in an ornate jeweled mirror, was a Young Red Dragon.

“I smell you, I feel your breath…” The dragon growled. Tag’s heart shot into his throat and he pressed himself against a wall to take cover, but the dragon continued looking into the mirror, trying to pose impressively.
Thank the Host. He’s just practicing lines. Tag breathed a silent sigh of relief. Still, have to be careful. He reached out with a hand of darkness and surreptitiously drew a few valuable looking items back to his hiding place.

“My teeth are swords,” the dragon bellowed, baring its fangs into the mirror.

Okay, I think that’s enough for today. Tag tucked the last item into a now slightly overfull sack. Time to go.

“And my breath, death!”

I’ll take your word for it. Tag slipped back into the passageway, and made his way back to the dwarves. Those damned dwarves had better not try to screw me out of my cut.

Changeling Rogue is a natural to get into Hoardstealer. It’s good for skill-monkeys, trades out Trapfinding so we don’t have redundancy there later on, and allows us to deal with the problem of Hoardstealer not offering Hide and Move Silently as class skills as we qualify for Able Learner per this passage from Races of Destiny.
Chameleons can be reworked as a completely nonmagical class, where they have no spells but use Sleight of Hand to make items "disappear," and potions or powders to create smoke, fog, and fire. They could be made completely magical as well or even psionic, using spells or psionics to actually gain the abilities of other classes. If you're using the EBERRON Campaign Setting, the chameleon prestige class should be available to changeling player characters as well as humans and doppelgangers. In this case, the Able Learner feat extends to changelings as well.Emphasis mine.

We also pick up Darkstalker as a mandatory feat tax for sneaks. As Tag isn’t much of a fighter, a line of utility Fighter feats ends up being preferable to a d6 of Sneak Attack. We also drop a few levels into Shadowcaster. It doesn’t give quite as many skill points as one would like, but it offers some Darkvision (roughly the only thing holding Changeling back from being a complete slam dunk), along with some abilities for boosting stealth and thievery, and a bonus feat which will be important later on.
Level 10Tag stopped abruptly as rocks dropped down from the ceiling in front of him. A gout of dragon fire licked at the back of his neck, but only managed to singe his tunic as he ducked aside. He pocketed a final gem and bolted toward the exit. The dragon roared in fury, crashing into a pillar in her rush to soar after him. Suddenly, she turned the corner to have her senses greeted by an apparently empty hallway. She looked around perplexed, unable to see Tag’s figure or even hear his heavy footfalls as he sprinted away at top speed.

We’re into the SI. Trapfinding, extended Darkvision, and Hide From Dragons aren’t too bad. Trap Sensitivity gives us some use for all the Trap Sense that Hoardstealer grants, allowing Tag a Search check for any non-magical trap that he comes within 5 ft of. Cunning Evasion will get more interesting later on, but traps and dragons both make you roll Reflex saves from time to time, so getting a 5ft step is a nice thing, and with a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis or similar, could allow chances to slip back into hiding. Also offering off turn movement is the Dutiful Guardian feat. While jumping into melee is normally not going to be Tag’s MO, he will often be invisible or under the effect of Hide From Dragons, which could make *ahem* tagging in for an ally a more attractive option.
Level 15“We know about every rat scurrying within 100 miles of my uncle’s hoard. We know which ones are Darkstalkers like you. We know when one gets hidden from dragons. No one’s going to rob so much as a seed hoard unless they come with enough force to crush a nation or one of us is stupid enough to pay for your ‘consulting services.’ Peddle your snake oil somewhere else, monkey.” The entrance to the cave began to seal itself, the dragon behind it sneering at the human figure standing outside.

The smile on Tag’s assumed face didn’t falter. “I understand sir. But I have it on good authority that someone is going to try soon. Can I at least offer you my card?” He ducked under a bolt of lightning, and darted forward toward the gate, arm outstretched with a business card in hand. The dragon snapped at him in annoyance drawing blood, but Tag pressed forward undeterred, repeating “my card.”

“I’ll tell you where you can shove your card,” snarled the dragon, rearing back to bite again, but Tag was quicker and closed the distance, pressing the card onto its scaly breast. Suddenly, the huge scaled body went completely still as if frozen.

“I’ll just leave you with that contact info. Name’s Tag, as in ‘you’re it.’” Tag stepped through the gate, touching a wand to his wounded shoulder. “Now then. I had better get this done before reinforcements arrive.”

We duck out from Hoardstealer for a bit and progress the casting with Recaster instead. Its Expanded Knowledge adds Shivering Touch to the Hoardstealer list, which is a crucial tool for anyone that’s going to be dealing with dragons. Recaster also lets Tag Maximize it for free, allowing him to put down not just dragons, but significantly more dexterous opponents as well in one shot.
Level 20The trap detonated, and when the smoke cleared there wasn’t a trace of the intruders to be seen. They’ve gone invisible, the dragon said through the telepathic link.

The mechanatrix exarch nodded mechanically, and the two quickly confirmed the positions of the vanished creatures, ending with a message of Changeling’s 45 feet off you at 10 o’clock. He’s the one who shivered Colryxanu, watch yourself from the exarch.

Two figures appeared next to the Mechanatrix, their invisibility offering them the split second edge needed for their weapons to find purchase, even with their positions known. The exarch struck back, and the dragon let loose a bolt of lightning to level the field, but ultimately to no avail as the Mechanatrix fell before the assault.

The wyrm stomped in Tag’s direction letting out a deafening roar of fury. His ears bleeding, the Changeling steadied himself and silently set off one spell to strip the dragon’s wards, and another to reach his Shivering Touch through the darkness.

We finish off Recaster and Hoardstealer. Recaster picks us up a nice little gem in Invisibility, Mass, which is only 3rd level on the Telflammar Shadowlord list despite being all the way up at 7th on other lists. Invisibility, Mass should count as an invisibility spell (there’s precedent in the general categorization of inflict and cure spells), so with Evasive Maneuvers Tag can cast it as an immediate action when he makes a successful Reflex save for Evasion. He can also now cast Shivering Touch from 30ft away thanks to Metamorphic Spell (Space). Skill Mastery along with Social Intuition means Tag can take 10 on pretty much all the skills he’s focused on, and with his Con and a masterwork item, he can trivially make the Concentration check to cast any of his spells (up to 4th level) defensively with minimal rank investment.

Sell ItDraconomicon: Hoardstealer
Drow of the Underdark: Constant Guardian, Dutiful Guardian
Dungeonscape: Trap Sensitivity
Exemplars of Evil: Evasive Maneuvers
Lords of Madness: Darkstalker
Player’s Handbook II: Cunning Evasion
Races of Destiny: Able Learner
Races of Eberron: Changeling, Changeling Rogue, Recaster
Tome of Magic: Shadocaster, Most Mysteries
Urban Magic Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070307a): Quicker Than The Eye
Everything else can be found in the SRD.

Heliomance

2018-07-04, 07:11 AM

And that's everything!

Quick note, I deleted the line listing Magic of Incarnum from Gunnar von Sacher's source list, because the entry was 37 characters over the maximum post size and I didn't want to break it into two posts! There was a citation there, please don't penalise the build for its lack.

12 builds. That is ridiculous. And y'all were whining about how hard it was to do anything with this ingredient.

Venger

2018-07-04, 07:57 AM

Wow, looks like a great round!

As is customary, here's a nice neat list for ease of reference:

1 Hae Wyre Chaotic Neutral Star Elf
Planar Bard 6/cataclysm mage 3/Hoard stealer 5/Sublime Chord 1/Ultimate Magus 5 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197409&postcount=109)

2 Splash Gordon Deepwyrm Half-Drow
Drow Feat Rogue 1/Truenamer 4/Hoardstealer 3/Truenamer +7/Hoardstealer +5 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197419&postcount=110)

3 Buckethead, the Pretender
Strongheart Halfling Rogue 1 / Druid 6 / Hoardstealer 3 / Arcane Hierophant 2 / Hoardstealer +5 / Arcane Hierophant +3 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197420&postcount=111)

4 Paulie Pocket, The Body Bag N Dragonborn (Wings Aspect) Skarn Psychic Rogue 1/Totemist 2/Psychic Rogue 3/Hoardstealer 10/Totemist 7 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197422&postcount=112)

5 Shellie Caleesye CN Human Rogue 1/Incarnate 1/Totemist 1/Rogue +2/Hoardstealer 10/Exemplar 1/Uncanny Trickster 3/Exemplar +1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197425&postcount=113)

6 Mellon N Dragonborn Human Cloistered Cleric 5/Hoardstealer 4/Ruathar 2/Hoard +4/Sovereign Speaker 3/Hoard +2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197426&postcount=114)

7 The Professor CG Warforged Scout, Rogue 1/Artificer 9/Hoardstealer 10 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197428&postcount=115)

8 Paitry True Neutral Naenhoon Illumian (to necropolitan to spellstiched necropolitan) spellthief 1/dread necromancer 1/rainbow servant 10/uncanny trickster 2/hordestealer 6 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197429&postcount=116)

9 Master Overmound Midnighter of the 14 Companions Neutral Good Halfling Rogue 4/ Swordsage 2/ Hoardstealer 8/ Whisperknife 5/ Luckstealer 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197431&postcount=117)

10 Ser Iaijutsu Tonneu de Chartres CG Otherworldly Human Ranger 2/Human Paragon 3/Fighter 2/Hoardstealer 10/Wyrm Wizard 3 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197432&postcount=118)

11 Gunnar von Sacher NE silverbrow human human paragon 1/incarnate 2/human paragon 3/hoardstealer 7/thayan slaver 5/hoardstealer 10 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197435&postcount=119)

12 Tag Baggit CN Changeling Rogue 2/Shadowcaster 3/Hoardstealer 10/Recaster 5 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197436&postcount=120)

Zaq

2018-07-04, 11:17 AM

What have I gotten myself into?

Efrate

2018-07-04, 12:23 PM

Glad I settled on what I did, see similar builds to 2 of my discarded ideas making it in. Good luck judging.

KrimsonNekros

2018-07-04, 01:52 PM

seems like 6, 8, and 10 were the popular cut off levels for this class.

Sian

2018-07-04, 03:40 PM

damn Vizzini! *shakes fist* ... thought it would've been to obvious to go Trapsmith, and focusing hard on getting in and out without anyone ever discovering that you were ever there (leaning on Able Learner to deny the issues with poor skill selection for Hoardstealer), to the point where an anaemic wyrmling dragon could be trouble if it ever discovered the character

Thurbane

2018-07-04, 04:49 PM

Karl Aegis

2018-07-04, 08:26 PM

My idea was a Whisper Gnome Cradle Hunter that stacked darkvision and had a shadow familiar because shadowcaster and arcane caster levels stacked for that familiar. Alas, the charisma penalty was too much for Dragon Familiar shenanigans. One day I'll think of a build that uses more than 3 parts of the class. Deep pockets is amazing, btw, don't harsh it too much. I need more room for my cradles.

RaiKirah

2018-07-05, 08:13 PM

Well, I guess I'm glad I had to deal with Real Life for a while and couldn't get my build in; not only are each and every one of these much better (impressive work folks!) than what I had planned, I didn't actually like my entry all that much. I had a trick I wanted to use (and I made it work), but it came online at level 15 and it's not a good enough trick for that to fly. It also took too much work to get going, and consequently my build was basically incapable of doing anything else. I'll just have to find another opportunity!

Really great work from all the Chefs!!

Macabaret

2018-07-05, 09:55 PM

What have I gotten myself into?

Great bouts of fun by the dozens? :smallbiggrin:

I had started working on a second build, but never got it finalized for an entry. And, as it turns out, someone else entered with a build that focuses on the use of the same Hoardstealer ability combined with the exact same not-Hoardstealer ability, but interpreted the interaction between the two abilities differently than I had. Our interpretations seem at odds to each other, so I'll be very interested to see how the judge(s) judge.

Zaq

2018-07-05, 10:46 PM

(12 builds × 4 categories = 48 categories to put scores in.)

I have completed 9/48 scores. I have a handful of notes scribbled in a few more. I'm trying to be more holistic than usual, meaning that I'm not really keeping track of quarter points here and half points there. I'm just talking a lot and then giving an overall score for the category rather than trying to put a hard number on every sentence I type. This is at least partially because there are so damn many builds. We'll see how it goes. Still going to do my utmost to be even-handed across the board.

JyP

2018-07-06, 03:56 AM

My idea was to do a Xorvintaal Exarch combined with Hoardstealer - after all, if you are coached by a dragon to steal other dragon hoards, what could go wrong ? Alas, I had not enough time to do a build...

Venger

2018-07-06, 03:58 AM

There's always next time.

I'm a big fan of xorvintaal and xorvintaal accessories, but that la for exarch is brutal for what you get in return.

eversilentone

2018-07-06, 06:08 AM

I've never been brave enough to submit a build - and each time I see the reveal I know why lol! You guys are fantastic at this!

My noob idea was Forest Lord Elf/Green Dragon Heritage Dragonfire Adept to meet the higher skill prereqs, and I loved the fluff of a dragon servant being on the take from other dragons' hoards! Sadly I think it probably had little power and looking at some of the builds... yeah, as I said, you guys are fantastic at this stuff!

I really enjoy these threads! Thanks to the judges and participants alike!

daremetoidareyo

2018-07-06, 09:32 AM

eversilentone

2018-07-06, 09:37 AM

Submit anyway. Or judge. You'll get good in about 3 months

I feel even less qualified to judge than to submit! But I will try and submit for the next one, it's the only way I'm going to git-gud.

Zaq

2018-07-06, 09:58 AM

Submit anyway. Or judge. You'll get good in about 3 months

I feel even less qualified to judge than to submit! But I will try and submit for the next one, it's the only way I'm going to git-gud.

Yeah, this. Learn by doing. A lot of it is just practice.

That said, I do know what it feels like to look at a round and say “man, all of these are so much more interesting than the ideas I didn’t finish building!”

But really, it’s just practice. And you never know—sometimes a fresh perspective that isn’t tied down by perceived unwritten rules from prior rounds is exactly what a given ingredient needs!

WhamBamSam

2018-07-06, 10:56 PM

There's always next time.

I'm a big fan of xorvintaal and xorvintaal accessories, but that la for exarch is brutal for what you get in return.I mean, one of the things you get in return is 100 mile Mindsight. That said, I also thought about an Exarch and also decided the +2 LA was too steep.

I considered using this as part of a justification for why a Hoardstealer sneak would not take Darkstalker. Because of the way Darkstalker is worded, it blocks Mindsight if the creature with Mindsight also has Blindsense by RAW, so a creature with Darkstalker won't ping on a Xorvintaal Dragon's Mindsight, but will on his Exarch's, so a Xorvintaal Dragon BBEG and his lieutenant with minimal optimization will know of every creature with Darkstalker within 100 miles, so you actually stick out more if you do have it. Of course, sometimes you will still want Darkstalker on a sneak even if your enemies are all playing three-dimensional Xorvintaal, so I was thinking two levels of Chameleon for the floating feat, but ultimately I couldn't see sufficient reason not to just put Chameleon in place of Hoardstealer rather than alongside it.

Venger

2018-07-06, 11:22 PM

Kelb_Panthera

2018-07-06, 11:51 PM

I mean, he'll know everyone in 100 miles, but he won't know which of them have darkstalker without some kind of cross-reference. It definitely has use, it's just kind of hard to showcase, and like chameleon, doesn't really show off hoardstealer.

I don't think that works. Mindsight requires the telepathy special quality but an exarch doesn't actually get that ability. It gains the very specific ability to communicate with its draconic master telepathically and no one else. It's not even listed as a SQ in the example character's block.

WhamBamSam

2018-07-07, 12:18 AM

I don't think that works. Mindsight requires the telepathy special quality but an exarch doesn't actually get that ability. It gains the very specific ability to communicate with its draconic master telepathically and no one else. It's not even listed as a SQ in the example character's block.This is a weird quirk of MMV. Telepathy is listed under Languages instead of Special Qualities. The sample Xorvintaal Dragon and Exarch has Telepathy (Su) listed there, as do other creatures with Telepathy in the book, like Devils.

I mean, he'll know everyone in 100 miles, but he won't know which of them have darkstalker without some kind of cross-reference. It definitely has use, it's just kind of hard to showcase, and like chameleon, doesn't really show off hoardstealer.A single dragon and single exarch (whose level could be low enough as to not change the CR of the encounter at all) is sufficient to know which ones have Darkstalker. I meant that the prevalence of Mindsight and specifically Mindsight that checks for Darkstalker in a Xorvintaal campaign would serve as a metagame excuse for not having Darkstalker on a sneak.

If you mean the hypothetical Exarch Hoardstealer wouldn't be able to cross-reference without relying on his master's help, he could get himself a Pseudodragon familiar, which would have Blindsense and its own Telepathy, which would at least let him cross-reference within a 100 ft radius around the familiar.

Venger

2018-07-07, 12:45 AM

I don't think that works. Mindsight requires the telepathy special quality but an exarch doesn't actually get that ability. It gains the very specific ability to communicate with its draconic master telepathically and no one else. It's not even listed as a SQ in the example character's block.
Yes it does. It's just listed under "languages" from mm4 onwards.

This is a weird quirk of MMV. Telepathy is listed under Languages instead of Special Qualities. The sample Xorvintaal Dragon and Exarch has Telepathy (Su) listed there, as do other creatures with Telepathy in the book, like Devils.

A single dragon and single exarch (whose level could be low enough as to not change the CR of the encounter at all) is sufficient to know which ones have Darkstalker. I meant that the prevalence of Mindsight and specifically Mindsight that checks for Darkstalker in a Xorvintaal campaign would serve as a metagame excuse for not having Darkstalker on a sneak.

If you mean the hypothetical Exarch Hoardstealer wouldn't be able to cross-reference without relying on his master's help, he could get himself a Pseudodragon familiar, which would have Blindsense and its own Telepathy, which would at least let him cross-reference within a 100 ft radius around the familiar.

You've got me there. So you've invented the battleship minigame portion of xorvintaal.

Hiro Quester

2018-07-07, 11:14 AM

Some very inventive builds there, many focusing on the aspect I did not think of optimizing (pocket BoH).

I have been traveling and could not make time to create a full build. But I was looking hard at Spellthief (with master spellthief feat) as a base, since the skill synergy and casting synergy would work week with the SI.

(I'm surprised more builds didn't use Spellthief as a base; I though it was an obvious way to build in a casting class that also enabled the skills to qualify for the SI.)

Working in trapsmith for the ability to infiltrate dragon lairs deal with and set traps, and steal everything from the dragon (treasure, and magic) could be fun.

A few levels of unseen seer, and that collar that adds the shadow creature template would also work, to add stealth, ranged touch spells that can sneak attack, and extra divination (hunter's eye) might have worked well too.

Master Spellthief enabling all the other classes to count for spell levelsyou could steal would have been funny. Playing classes that grant up to 4th level spells, but being able to steal a dragon's 9ths and use them against the dragon.

But this would not have been as inventive or powerful as many of the builds listed here.

Wow. Well done everyone.

Wolfem

2018-07-08, 10:17 AM

ICO Spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oyjVU5JmeCnC8YTMqDArDqE5PszHl0Ysadz630kuTGk/edit?ts=59a4835f#gid=0) has been updated with the dishes for this cook. Most of these are pretty crazy!

The Viscount

2018-07-08, 12:53 PM

As always, thank you for your work, Wolfem.

Zaq

2018-07-08, 05:21 PM

6 builds done. Again, a quick scribbled note or two in a category here and a category there, but nothing that yet translates to a complete numerical score (even in a single category) in the other builds yet. Current word count is approximately 14,300, give or take.

This is going to take a while, just FYI. Not sure how many nights free I'm going to have over the next week, and I don't think I should keep going today (unless someone's stepping up to volunteer to be the one I judge while I'm getting tired and impatient and a bit less forgiving? No? Didn't think so), but I'll keep doing my best.

Maybe next time I should implement a "no words" rule. I'll just copy and paste the text of your entry and add emoji to it. That would definitely make things better, right?

KrimsonNekros

2018-07-08, 05:50 PM

jdizzlean

2018-07-08, 08:16 PM

My idea was looking something like Beguiler 6/Hoardstealer 7/Nar Demonbinder 7, using feats to get the Summon Monster required for ND; I wasn't overly happy with it though, and as usual, felt like it was built in spite of the secret ingredient, rather than to utilise it...

:smallsmile:

the furthest i got on a discarded idea was a refresh of one of my original ideas. I had feats listed originally but took them off in one of the 2089452 revisions. I was going to work on the dowsing part of the SI in this build, but never got it off the ground

IC Hoardstealer
Dragonborn (Mind) Beguiler (PHB2 6)

Dragonborn:
+2 CON -2 DEX
gain (dragonblood) subtype, +2 dodge bonus to AC vs dragons, Immunity to Frightful Presence, Draconic Aspect (Mind), gain Speak Draconic

1-Beguiler1 0 0,0,2 7+INTx4, Armored Mage, Trapfinding, Spells, 2x Feats
2-Beguiler2 1 0,0,3 7+INT, Cloaked Casting (+1 DC), Surprise Casting
3-Beguiler3 1 1,1,3 7+INT, Advanced Learning, 1x Feat
4-Beguiler4 2 1,1,4 7+INT
5-Beguiler5 2 1,1,4 7+INT, Silent Spell (B)
6-Hoardstealer1 2 1,3,4 7+INT, Darkvision +30ft, Trapfinding, Spells, 1x Feat
7-Hoardstealer2 3 1,4,4 7+INT, Hide from Dragons 1/day
8-Hoardstealer3 4 2,4,5 7+INT, Trap Sense +2, Deep Pockets
9-Hoardstelaer4 5 2,5,5 7+INT, Treasure Dowsing 1/day, 1x Feat
10-Hoardstealer5 5 2,5,5 7+INT, Darkvision +60ft
11-Hoardstealer6 6 3,6,6 7+INT, Trap Sense +4, Hide Dragons 2/day
12-Hoardstealer7 7 3,6,6 7+INT, Dowsing 2/day, 1x Feat
13-Hoardstealer8 8 3,7,6 7+INT, Skill Mastery
14-Deep Diviner1 8 3,7,8 3+INT, Locate Node, Node Spellcasting, +1 SC
15-Deep Diviner2 9 3,7,9 3+INT, Speak to Stone, +1 SC, 1x Feat
16-

Zaq

2018-07-15, 07:07 PM

Nine builds done.

I started on a tenth one but got frustrated and (temporarily) gave up because the skill table was so awfully hard to read. (Also I've been doing this for about six hours. Maybe more.)

My goal is to finish next weekend. I'm busy every single night between tomorrow and Thursday, so don't hold your breath thinking it'll be sooner than that. Doing my best, but 12 builds is killer.

Efrate

2018-07-16, 05:41 AM

Take your time, we appreciate it and for me at least I would rather have a thorough dismantle, criteak and judgement than a rushed one xD

Zaq

2018-07-21, 08:22 PM

Incoming judgments! I respectfully ask that you wait until I post the all-clear so that I can lump these all together.

This is going to take a few posts. I tried to keep the formatting consistent between entries, but I may have slipped up here and there, and I'm a little too burned out to care right now. I'm like 99% certain that the number of line breaks between categories (and between category title and actual words) is inconsistent. You can all just deal.

Hae Wyre: 12.5

I spent a good amount of time fiddling with a way to gain cheap access to Portable Holes and/or Enveloping Pits and then weaponizing Deep Pockets. I gave up before you did. Let's see if you succeed where I failed!

Originality: 5

Just—just take your damn points and leave me alone. I'm not waxing poetic about this one. You had your desired effect. Take your points already.

Power: 3
Man, you're going to make me work for this one, aren'tcha? That's on me, I suppose. I tend to stay the hell away from explicit portal-based stuff because I've never had a GM who's willing to put up with a character who can casually plane-hop to arbitrary (or, just as bad, random) planes, and I've definitely never been such a GM, so I kind of soft-ban those abilities in my own head. Doesn't mean they don't exist, I s'pose, so like I said, this is on me. Gonna do my best for ya.

That Portal Dissonance ability seems absolutely murderous towards your GM. It is weapons-grade shenanigans. The intended effect is shenanigans. I'm kind of in awe of how obnoxious it is. I'm not saying that this is, per se, a bad thing for this build, especially while grading Power, but I'm a little staggered with just how much chaos this can impose. Hell of a thing to build around, I suppose; may as well go big or go home.

You've made enough of an argument that you're going to make portals very annoying for everyone who isn't you that I'm fairly convinced that you'll pull something off. I guess I'm struggling with trying to figure out what you're actually accomplishing. I'm fairly certain that it's something. But I'm really not comprehending exactly what. I don't mean that I don't understand how your abilities work—I'm pretty sure I've got a handle on that. I mean I can't figure out exactly what your playstyle actually looks like. You are, to use your phrase, "really weird."

I'm a little unsure of if Cataclysm of Flesh will work with Portal Dissonance just because nothing is actually going through a portal after the initial bang. To use 4e terminology, it's clearly a burst, but it's not a zone: a critter who wasn't in the area of the initial use of the ability but who then wanders towards where you invoked the power won't be affected by it. You may have torn "a hole in the fabric of the planes," but the ability doesn't say that you can then stick your hand through that hole and waggle it around in Xoriat. It's like Slow, not like Sleet Storm. So I'm not sure that you can then target it with PD, and I'm not sure that it would do anything if you did. Now, make no mistake, it's still a truly horrifying save-or-lose ability, especially because I've read through it multiple times and cannot seem to find a use limit on it, meaning that, portal BS or no, you can apparently just spam this sucker. So it's not exactly useless or anything. (Also, they totally used the wrong word in the middle: "affect" can be a noun, but in this specific case, they wanted "effect." C'mon, WotC!)

I would be extremely wary of treating Rope Trick + BoH/equivalent as the same as Portable Hole + BoH. The spell doesn't actually say what happens. All it says is "it is hazardous" to mix extradimensional spaces, but it doesn't say what actual hazards you might be facing. Meaning that it's entirely up to the whims of the GM. When you're already based around weapons-grade shenanigans with extradimensional spaces and portals and stuff, inviting the GM to start ruling that problems occur with extradimensional spaces seems like tempting fate, and not in a good way. I don't think that would end well for the player in the long term.

Shadow Well and Precipitate Breach, while a little late coming online, are both very solid choices here. They both do seem to be good candidates for using Portal Dissonance to force unwilling things into your Deep Pockets, and using Transdimensional Spell to then poke at them is clever. I don't like that it takes until ECL 18 for you to be able to actually have the ability to apply Transdimensional Spell to anything damaging other than Sound Burst (or maybe Shadow Conjuration? Maybe?), but it's still reasonably clever.

How well do you hold up outside of using your planar meddling? I have no major complaints about your choices for Bard spells, so you've at least got a little bit of that as a baseline. I would have liked to have seen the Three Core Gs (Grease, Glitterdust, and Glibness) just to buoy up the baseline a little more, but you can probably find uses for much of what you did pick, so that's good. You're right that you're very squishy early on, but at least you have some marginal utility from your baseline abilities. Not the most skillful bard I've ever seen, of course (you're pretty much spending your whole allotment of skills on long-term prereqs rather than on a strong foundation of "typical" Bard skills), unfortunately.

I think you've basically beaten me here. I genuinely do not know how to judge this dish that is in front of me. I have spent far longer staring at this than I care to admit, and I cannot convince myself that I have a good understanding of what this character looks like in actual play. That is not typical for my Iron Chef experiences. I usually feel pretty confident about that, but that is just not happening here. I give up. This is getting a 3. You have an acceptable, though not bulletproof, selection of spells even if your portal stuff isn't immediately relevant, you have some late-game ability to force your portal stuff to the fore no matter what, and you have an obnoxiously spammable save-or-suck in that Cataclysm of Flesh ability, even if it doesn't do what you said it might. You'd have scored higher if I were less bewildered by what you're trying to accomplish, if you had more skill-based utility, and if you had more resilience early on and more slots in the late game.

Elegance: 1

I am not convinced that Widen does what you say it does. I don't think "volume held" is exactly the same thing as "area of a supernatural effect." It's a staple feat (alongside its sister feat Extend Supernatural Ability) when optimizing bizarre and unique or semi-unique abilities that these secret ingredients offer, but I'm not buying the explanation this time. Not the biggest black mark I've ever made, but I don't think this works as advertised.

Something something Extra Spell probably doesn't work that way and even if it does it's questionable something something.

Basic legality check: You're roughly a million points over budget at level 1 (you spend 48, when you correctly point out that you have 36 available), which I think is perhaps the single most egregious skill point accounting error I've personally witnessed in Iron Chef. (Did an early draft have, um, 22 INT somehow? Venerable gray elf with Nymph's Kiss?). Since many of the points you spend at this level are used as prereqs later on, this has bad implications for your long-term legality. You fail to call out Open Lock as cc at level 4, but that's trivial and I'm not actually penalizing for that alone. (Backing up to add that apparently you get fairly lackadaisical with calling out what is and isn't cc, but that's not your gravest sin in this category; I'm not penalizing for it, but I am requesting that you be aware of that in the future. Moving on.)

(Still on legality; line break for sanity): Level 6 is problematic for a pile of reasons. Search and Disable are not class skills for you at that level. First, you spend skill points before choosing your feat, so you don't have the Kobold domain when you dump those 9 points. Second, even if we gloss over that (I've said that I do hate that rule with its specific interaction with exactly this, and you'll notice that it's about the only explicit houserule I've added to the E6 competition that's different from the houserules Helio adds to this one—that said, Helio has not imposed such a houserule here, and it is RAW), the Kobold domain makes Search and Disable in-class for your Cleric levels. Which you aren't taking at this level. You're taking Bard. Not Cleric. There isn't a general-purpose rule that I can find that says that a non-Cleric who gains a domain gets to shuffle any effects of that domain that key off of Cleric levels onto whatever arbitrary levels they choose. Your attempt is clever, but unfortunately, I think it's too clever by half, and I think you outsmarted yourself. So you're over budget on your skill points once more (you spend 9 points in-class that should have been spent cross-class; that's an overage of 9). And now you have more ranks in Search than is legal for your HD, which makes your qualification for Hoardstealer seriously problematic (your max ranks in Search at 9 HD should be 6, which is short of the required 8).

(Still on legality.) You also don't qualify for Cataclysm Mage. Bard 6 is not sufficient to cast 3rd level spells; you need Bard 7 for that. That's also highly troubling. Back to skill points for a minute: You're over budget by 1 at level 7 (you even admit that DD is cc for you at that level, so I don't think we can chalk that up to you thinking that the Kobold domain turns Cataclysm Mage levels into Cleric levels). At level 8, you have 9 ranks in Perform (but didn't mark it in red), and then you're "up" to 8.5 points at level 10. I'll chalk the extra rank at level 8 up to an editing error, I suppose.

(Still on legality.) You underspend by 2 points at 13. Underspending is significantly less bad than overspending, but it still happened. You then overspend by 2 at level 15 (Perform isn't a class skill!) Your feats appear to be legal.

Okay, I think we're done combing through legality for new data, but that's still a lot of illegality. There's part of me that wants to hit you with FTQ for the Secret Ingredient, but I think we'll assess this in Elegance rather than UoSI. In short, there's too much that's illegal about this character for me to award any points in Elegance. I'll judge the other categories as though your class structure is legal, but you're really not legal, and that's super inelegant. Sorry mate. Not much sense in me continuing to look at this category, to be honest.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.5

It's a Deep Pockets build. I think. I think? I think. The build stub of my own I spent the longest working on was attempting to weaponize Deep Pockets by forcing enemies into a Portable Hole or Enveloping Pit and then using Deep Pockets on their pockets to invoke the BoH + PH clause, and this seems vaguely similar. Very different, but I believe they spring from a similar source. So that's a mark in your favor. The star of the show is Portal Dissonance (and, like, Sublime Chord), but I guess I didn't expect Hoardstealer spells to qualify anyone for Ultimate freaking Magus, so I guess that's something.

We can stop pretending that you care about literally anything else in the class, though, can't we? I think we can. Five levels. Oof. That's a small number of levels. Would more levels have helped? Not necessarily; you're already lunging straight for shenanigans, and you don't bother to deny it. There's some refreshing honesty there, I suppose. It's not necessarily correct to say that you'd be more Hoardstealery (or better at your primary goal) with more Hoardstealer. But that is a painfully low number of levels. You technically advance the spellcasting to the end, which would matter a lot more if you told me more about why you care about your Hoardstealer spells or even if you had meaningful ways to spend the slots on something. I see Bard and SC spells doing your heavy lifting. (I mean, let's be honest, Bard spells and SC spells are straight up better than HS spells, and we can't deny that. But the fact remains that your HS spells do not seem to form an important part of your strategy, at least according to your write-up.)

I do want to acknowledge that this build seems to rely on Deep Pockets. I think it relies less completely on Deep Pockets than the other intense Deep Pockets builds this round (namely Gordon and Paulie); you've got enough other insane portal-based crap in here that Deep Pockets seems like one trick among many rather than an immovable and load-bearing part of the build. Still, Deep Pockets does give you a nice expendable place to stick folks if you can coax them or force them through some other random portal.

I appreciate that the reason that Hoardstealer is here is its one really unique ability. That's good. You did actually manage to use Hoardstealer to qualify for something else, which is also good. But you didn't really go as far as I expected with Ultimate Magus, especially with Sublime Chord on the table; why is UM actually more interesting than just more Sublime Chord? You get Persist at 20 if you burn one or more of your highest-level slots, but what are you Persisting that's worth the cost at 20? You have so few legal targets for Persist! Using the SI to qualify for stuff is only especially meaningful if that stuff is cool. UM is cool, but it's not the star of the show today. So I can only give partial credit for using HS to qualify for it.

My gut says this is a 3.5. It feels goddamn crazy to give above midline to a build with just five levels in the SI, but you actually do rely on the class's only unique feature, which means that the build wouldn't be the same with just more of its non-HS classes. That's the most important part of UoSI to me, and that pushes you above baseline. You'd have scored higher if you explained why the HS spells matter for reasons other than simply existing as prepared spells, if the skills associated with HS (both in terms of prereqs and in terms of skills that are in-class for HS) mattered more to you, or if you had done anything at all with the other class features.

Final Thoughts:

I love this build so much. I also hate this build so much. It is extraordinarily difficult to judge. It's diabolically clever, but it's so shenanigans-y that I can't wrap my brain around what it actually looks like in play. Like, at all. This may be the build that broke me the most. Yer a mad genius of some stripe, but this may have gone too deep into crazytown.

Splash Gordon: 15

The second I saw 11 levels in Truenamer, I knew that Rebuild Item shenanigans would be on the table. Let's be honest, there's basically exactly one reason to take exactly that many levels of Truenamer. Let's see how you do with your item rebuilding.

Originality: 4.5
I love flask-hurlers. It's an archetype that's always appealed to me on an instinctual level. I must give you kudos for pointing out to me that PMC can arguably be used to make acid. That's a pretty nice trick for a low-level flask-hurler if you can deal with the casting time and the duration, and I like you pointing out things like greensickness as another way for a low-level flask-hurler to get something nasty bottled up on the cheap.

From me, at least, you're not getting Originality points solely for bringing in a Truenamer. I mean, I kind of feel like that should be obvious (they're not new to me in, like, any sense, including in Iron Chef builds), and given that what you do with it is pretty much an extension of my discussions of Rebuild Item, well, you know where we're going here. But that said, I want to applaud the line "[m]ost notably, Hoardstealer doesn't have Craft as a class skill, and Truenamer does." That exemplifies how incredibly haphazard the skill list on Hoardstealer is, and it actually make me laugh out loud. Using Truenamer as a way to get around a skill limitation on the SI is sufficiently novel that I'm going to consider it original.

And I suppose I will mention here that I had toyed around with the idea of using Rebuild Item in conjunction with a weaponized Deep Pockets, but I gave it up for taking too many levels (I was basically planning to rebuild Enveloping Pits), so that's cool. I like seeing people go all the way with ideas that I gave up. I'm willing to call this a 4.5. I wasn't totally blindsided or blown away, but there were enough clever and unique elements that I'm willing to reward you.

Power: 3
Okay, so I have good news and I have bad news. The good news is that your "glass cannon" trick is really clever. I mean that sincerely. I might even be willing to buy that some parts of it work. I'm not buying that it does three or more digits of d6s (if complete immersion in acid only does 10d6—see DMG pg. 202—you ain't getting 300d6 with the equivalent of 300 flasks of acid unless you somehow have the ability to make 300 attack rolls at once, which you don't), but it's still clever and I want to acknowledge that. Even if it's not an instant kill against anything not immune to acid, which it shouldn't be, I'm willing to buy that it at least hurts like total immersion to acid, and I like what you came up with. (Read the rest of pg. 202 of the DMG and you'll see that you might also force a DC 13 Fort save vs. taking 1 CON damage and then 1d4 secondary CON damage, too! But you'll probably also have to make the same save when you're setting up.) The poison is a little bit sketchier when talking about massive exposure to many doses at once. I genuinely don't know how to rule that. I don't think I can take "splash weapon of 300 doses of BLE = 300 separate full-strength exposures to BLE, so roll 300 Fort saves and take damage for each one you failed" on its face, but I don't have a handy RAW reference like the rules for total immersion to acid, so that's asking me to move away from judging and towards GMing. Thankfully, I don't have to make a final ruling for an actual game, so I'll leave it at "somewhere that's likely deadlier than a single dose but less deadly than 300 doses" and accept that it's pretty nasty (and clever) but not that it's an instant win bomb 1/day.

I will say that you are impressively optimistic about your chances to muscle past the Law of Resistance when using 300 instances of Rebuild Item per hour. I've personally never built a 'Namer with that much TS oomph. That's getting into "turn into a Garbler" levels of TS. Of course, while that's probably the most amusing nit to pick out of your scheme, it's not the biggest problem you've got. But I think I've covered that enough in the previous paragraph.

Anyway, we talked about the good news. The bad news is that Rebuild Item has some limitations that you don't seem to have taken into consideration. Namely that you need to touch the item in question, and you only have one round to do it. That does not seem to play nice with the idea of launching a Deep Pocketized acid flask across the map, and you mentioned that there's some splash damage to be aware of, so I think you do indeed want to be pretty far away from the action. So I'm not very cheerful about your chances of actually rebuilding your Deep Pocketized thing. Darn shame, but if there even are any ways to cheese around RI's range and its timing, I don't see any such techniques in this build's write-up.

Let's talk about your utterances a bit. I won't argue with most of them. They're pretty solid. I feel like there's a teeny-tiny bit of cargo cult following here in your choice of Hidden Truth when you don't have any meaningful ranks in any Knowledge skills (okay, eventually Arcana, but you wait for a while), but even if you're just taking it because I told you to take it as your first level 2 LEM, it's still pretty darn nice on its own, and it does let you count as trained. But what sticks out to me is Silent Caster. Why Silent Caster? That's a truly baffling choice. Most of your other utterance choices are pretty spot-on (well, okay, Vision Sharpened is also a little weaksauce by ECL 13, especially without Quicken, so I probably would have gone with Temporal Spiral instead), but Silent Caster sticks out like a sore cliché. You know it's garbage for stealth without some way to make the act of uttering not be noisy, right? I guess you could technically try to use it to interfere with an enemy caster, but I don't love your chances. (Why yes, you did get the one judge who's going to pick apart which specific utterances you chose. But you probably chose to make a 'Namer after you saw I was judging anyway, so here we are.) The bright side is that most of your utterances are legitimately reasonable picks, and I don't want to obscure that too much. I mean, yeah, there aren't many good utterances in the game so this is pretty much just a matter of sticking to a relatively narrow path, but I'll take what I can get.

One of the reasons that I say that I don't love your chances is because I'm not super impressed with your TS mod. Ranks and INT aren't even really a minimum. Full ranks and good INT is actually somewhere below what I'd call the minimum. On this build? No Skill Focus. No way to craft items that would help. No Paragnostic Assembly. No Marshal or Naen sigil or luck rerolls or anything like that. Best you can hope for is purchasing an AotST and maybe a custom competence item. I want to assume some level of competence, but let's remember that Truenamer constitutes an outright majority (not even a plurality but an actual majority) of your levels, and you kinda owe some back taxes here.

You wasted 2 of your Skill Mastery slots. Neither Truespeak nor UMD play nicely with Skill Mastery. They're legal to choose, but it does nothing, because it's a clause in the skill itself rather than stress or distraction preventing taking 10. It hardly matters at ECL 20, but still, you coulda done better. I'm not directly penalizing (I mean, the fact that we're looking at ECL 20 is the biggest factor here), but it isn't helping.

To take a look at how you're filling your Glass Cannon and your other flasks, I think Hidden Talent is an excellent start but an uninspiring finish. I've never seen an encounter where you can manifest something like that in combat (a 1 minute casting time means that you aren't a character, you're a flag to be captured) without some kind of speed reduction. Out of combat, it's only 2/day, only lasts for 1 hour per casting, and you only get 1 cubic foot. You can cause a lot of havoc with 1 cubic foot of greensickness (let alone BLE), make no mistake, but it won't last all day, can't be stockpiled, doesn't scale, and basically shouldn't be your only source of juice (which in this case is closer than usual to being literal juice). You invest in Craft skills, but the downside is that mundane crafting takes for-bleeding-ever. I'm not seeing much of a way of mitigating this in the text of your write-up. I like Treasure Dowsing as a way to help find raw materials, but the crafting time is still truly punishing if you're doing this sort of thing by hand. I did see a mention of Water to Acid, which I suppose you can UMD if you can get your hands on the right sort of item. (You can't put WtA in a skull talisman because it doesn't target one or more creatures.) Where I'm at is that I think you've put together a decent start when it comes to identifying some of the problems you're facing, but I'm not convinced that you've presented an actual solution to many of the problems you're facing. (This is kind of similar to how I feel about your Glass Cannon in general, for what that's worth.)

Overall, I think that if this build were being played at an actual table with an involved GM who's at least partially receptive to what you're trying to pull, you'd be able to make some, but not necessarily all, of what you're presenting work. I don't think that everything you've presented to me works all at once, and I don't think that much of it works quite as effectively as you're claiming. That said, I like that you're reaching for the stars, even if I don't think that you fully succeed. I'll allow at least partial leveraging of your weird goals and a semi-solid baseline of utterances to get you up to the midpoint of 3. You'd have scored higher with more reliability (higher TS, scaling tricks less dubious than your Glass Cannon, etc.), slightly better utterance choice (dat Silent Caster is just so awful), and a clearer discussion of how you're leveraging the spell slots (especially the lower-level ones) and the other nominal tricks from Hoardstealer.

Elegance: 2.5

Baseline legality check: Skills are almost legal, but technically you pick skills before picking feats, so Hide and MS cost you the full cross-class amount at level 3. This is dumb, and it's one of the things I explicitly houserule away in the E6 Appetizer competition, but it's still a thing. You don't meet the prereqs for Quick Draw (BAB +1) when you take it, so that's going to cost you a bit. (The fact that you don't seem to have any other Fighter-legal feats in your build with easier prereqs—which could theoretically be shuffled in—is not helping. EWP wouldn't work for the same reason.) Your other feats and classes seem to be legal (you meet the CL prereq on Craft Skull Talisman from Truenamer, though technically you advance feats before advancing class features, so you don't have CL 6 on Hoardstealer before you pick CST).

Why +6 ranks in UMD at ECL 7 when UMD has been a class skill for literally your entire career? Confusing. It's almost a one-off for your "giant lumpy investments" (plus or minus a few Truespeak binges and a weird sudden renewed interest in Hide/MS at the tail end of your career), so I'm not going to directly penalize for it, but I will call it out as weird. I could understand it if Truenamer didn't give UMD, but it does. It's, like, the one decent skill 'Namers get other than TS and Knowledges. Huh. Anyway. Moving on.

Choosing Recitation of the Sanguine State is a nice touch for someone trafficking in poison. It's the little things, sometimes. Might make a difference with the inhaled poison effect of being sufficiently close to a giant pile of acid, right?

You basically don't have any game elements with feats as prereqs, which is actually pretty surprising. But that means that by definition you don't have prereq feats clogging up space for half your career, so that's nice!

Your class progression mostly makes sense, and I don't really have too many interesting things to say about that.

I will never understand why half-drow is so bloody common in Iron Chef (you'll notice that this is Elegance, so I'm obviously not taking off points in Originality or anything). It doesn't hurt you at all, but I fail to see it helping you much. I guess an effectively blank race at least has no penalties. I understand that some folks might limit the ACFs in DotU to drow only, but I say that's bunk (they're just ACFs, not racial sub levels), so your choice of race hasn't affected this particular judgment much at all. You did fail to tell me what book it's from, which isn't the best look on you, but I don't feel like crucifying you for it, especially because you do mention "the DotU update," which is almost an in-line citation, even if it's an almost unintentional one.

Even if I don't think you address the critical "must be touched" flaw, pairing Rebuild Item with an intentionally destroyed Deep Pocket is clever enough to be at least a little bit elegant. (I'm perhaps biased because I had a similar idea, but still.)

Using Guerilla Warrior is a clever way of solving Hoardstealer's stealth problem on a race that doesn't qualify for Able Learner. Taking Truename Training at ECL 15 is honestly weird (I've never seen it that late before, and I think I'm unlikely to see it that late again anytime soon), but I guess it saves you 5 skill points in the ECL 16-20 bracket. Not the strongest return on investment I've ever seen in my life, but I guess I've seen worse choices. GW matters a lot more for you than TT. Especially given that you get a bump to your INT mod right when TT starts mattering, so you could have saved the feat and basically just kept on as you did. But at least I like GW.

Overall, I think the nice little touches you have mostly cancel out the quibbles I have other than the ones based on legality, but I have to penalize for the illegal choice of Quick Draw, especially since that's not something we can fix by just changing the order of your feats. Call it 2.5. Would have been about 3 or maybe even 3.25 without the Quick Draw incident, but it's 2.5.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 5

You zeroed in on Deep Pockets, just like I did. I like that. Using the SI's unique abilities is one of the things I like to see the most, so that's good. And even if I don't agree with everything you're presenting (I don't accept that dumping the equivalent of a zillion flasks of acid on someone does more than immersing them in acid, and I don't think you're likely to be in position to fire off Rebuild Item after launching it across the field), that's more a question for Power, and the amount of effort you spend on making your Glass Cannon a sight to behold shows me that you're really putting your heart into optimizing Hoardstealer's one really unique feature. It would have been nicer if I bought all of your arguments, but I cannot and do not accuse you of failing to try. While your arguments about Shrink Item and about using veins of sulfur for raw materials have some downsides that I addressed in Power, once again, you seem to be genuinely trying. Everything points at optimizing something that only Hoardstealer gives you, and removing Hoardstealer from the build kind of causes it to collapse (well, okay, at least to turn into something entirely unrelated). Even if effort without full results doesn't net you perfect marks in Power, I'm willing to give you an actual A for effort in UoSI. Have 5 points, Gordon.

Final Thoughts:

When I said in my criteria that it's sometimes okay to fall short of the ideal as long as I saw you reaching for it, this is the kind of build I was talking about. I don't think your tricks work the way you say they do, but dammit, you're really making an effort, and what you came up with was entertaining enough that I think the partial results are sufficient to have earned a solid score. Well done.

Buckethead: 13.75

No bonus or penalty for this: I didn't quite understand where you were going with your fluff. It felt, um, fragmentary? I felt like I was missing the context for who we're talking about or what was implied. But I meant it when I said that I wouldn't penalize for fluff. Let's move on to what we came here for.

Originality: 3.75
I almost never expect to see Druid in Iron Chef. This is in no small part because bringing Druid into a build is extremely dangerous (the chef generally has to contend with the implicit or explicit question of "so, why did you bother bringing the SI into a perfectly fine Druid build?"), but still, I didn't see it coming, so that looks good for you. Arcane Hierophant is way out there, too, pretty much for a similar reason. You don't do too terribly much that's unusual for an Arcane Hierophant, but the fact that you brought in the class at all is noteworthy. You managed to make it have a reasonably intuitive fit with the SI (which I did not expect), so we'll call this above average. Maybe 3.75? That seems about right.

Power: 4
So that's what, about 11 effective Druid levels? Not shabby. I mean, yes, that's probably (read: 100% definitely) weaker than 20 effective Druid levels, but that's still an awful lot of Druid oomph. I can't complain too much about many of your feats, though I wonder if it would have been possible to save the feat on Nightbringer Initiate by taking the first Halfling Druid level and just carefully timing when and how you invested in Hide/MS? The loss of SNA isn't trivial, but you do get a trick or two to make up for it, and a feat is a nice benefit to save. Maybe you ran those numbers and didn't like the results, and maybe you didn't run them at all. I just wonder. Anyway, KD is kind of trivial by ECL 18, but as I said in my criteria, most things are pretty trivial by that level.

FYI: I am indeed ignoring your proposed progression of Hoardstealer spells beyond 10 effective HS levels (CL still applies, like you said), but to be honest, that doesn't really affect your power terribly much.

Hoardstealer basically adds the arcane keyword to you, which I suppose is something. You make some arguments about Treasure Dowsing being useful; I'm not sure if RAW supports how burrowing works with intentional excavation of minerals, but you know what, it's clever enough that I'll call it somewhat interesting and recognize the effort. The stifled Druid progression in the middle of the build is necessarily disappointing, but enabling entry into AH and therefore ending up with a much more tricked-out companion than you'd otherwise get is definitely clever.

I'm a little confused by your skills. I don't quite get the maxed Move Silently with the near-minimum Hide. I can see a bit of ground being made up from being very little, but nowhere near the level I'd expect if I wanted to be primarily stealthy. You mention scouting quite a few times. Druids, especially halfling Druids with Undersized WS, are pretty good at that, but I do note with some sadness that you have very little meaningful investment in the perceptive skills, which is definitely a downer. You have some moderate investment in some face skills, I suppose, and eventually enough UMD to matter, but I'm not seeing much of an actual focus for your skills. I'm still seeing the utility from your WS, but I think it would be more impressive with more solidly defined skills. That would have really sold me that Hoardstealer is harmonizing with the rest of the build. You're still more harmonious than some of your competitors, but not quite what I was hoping for.

Hoardstealer slows you down, but at least Arcane Hierophant tacks on an inherent consolation prize to every Hoardstealer level, making it so that it's not a complete lack of progression. Now, advancing the familiar-style abilities of your companion is still a far cry from, you know, advancing your Druid spells or your Wild Shape, but the fact remains that you brought in a very different base class and managed to make it at least be advanced a tiny bit by Hoardstealer, which is more than we can say for every dish this round.

Overall, I still think I have to respect this build's power level. Druid spells are hella strong (I may be a minority here, but I like the Druid list way more than the Cleric list, especially at low levels and the mid-game), you have a very interesting pet, you have crazy utility from WS, and the SI levels slow you down more than sandbag you entirely. That's a 4 to me. You might have scored higher with a clearer focus on your skills and perhaps a little bit more discussion of the utility of Hoardstealer spells beyond Dim Door.

Elegance: 3

Basic legality check: You underspent your skill points during your Druid levels because you seem to have forgotten that Education made K: Arcana a permanent class skill for you, and you underspend during Hoardstealer when you take K: Nature as cross-class as well. Better to underspend than overspend, I suppose. Unfortunately, you seem to overspend at level 7 with no obvious explanation or mitigating factor. You seem to otherwise be legal. To be so close to being legal but to fall just short is really heartbreaking, and your underspending was consistent enough that it worked against you overall.

That one level of Concentration at 12 kind of drives me crazy. Why wait for so long? Why bother with a single rank? Why stop there? Similarly, the cowlick token investment into Spot/Listen at ECL 18+ is kind of weird as well. Why bother? Those are some hardcore cowlick ranks. All I want is a token line or two in your write-up telling me why you threw in those weird and otherwise lonely ranks when you did, but I didn't get that.

Taking Antiquarian and Education and then not taking any ranks in K: Religion is a little disappointing. I almost wonder if you'd have gotten more mileage out of being able to find traps prior to ECL 8 than you're going to get from an occasional +1 on Appraise checks and the ability to roll a special K: Religion check that you aren't allowed to succeed on because Antiquarian doesn't have an exception to the DC cap for untrained Knowledge checks. Okay, actually, that's a lie. I don't wonder. I'm pretty sure I know exactly which would have been more favorable to you, and it's not the one you chose. (Yes, this all matters. Every single choice you make should matter.) This is especially true considering how little you advance as a trapmonkey after entering Hoardstealer; the bulk of your actual investment in trap-related stuff comes at the beginning (so if your goal was to "maximize the use of the SI's features," I don't think you really succeeded there). Don't bring in stuff that doesn't matter, especially if you're trading something away for it. Levels 1-7 still do exist. (Iron Constitution is inoffensive, but that's mostly because both Iron Constitution and Resist Nature's Lure are pretty trivial in the first place. But even so, I can see you getting use out of Iron Constitution that I don't see you getting out of Antiquarian.)

I will be entirely honest with you: I tried three separate times to read through your "wild shape overview" spoiler, and my eyes kept glazing over in the middle. I respect trying to do the legwork for me and show me the stats of what you plan to turn into, but to be honest, that was too much info in way too dense a format for me to really get a full understanding of exactly what you wanted me to glean from it. I still understand that you've got some dynamite utility from WS and especially Dragon WS, but I don't get what you're saying in that specific block of text. Make it a table or something. What you presented is kind of like reading a phone book.

I liked the level-by-level breakdown of "here's what new at this level and why you care." That's good stuff.

The overall class structure more or less makes sense. Rogue at 1 for skills, Druid until you qualify for the SI, Hoardstealer until you qualify for AH, AH until you get (Medium) Dragon Wild Shape, more HS until you stop gaining unique features, then finish with AH. Clean, smooth, logical.

Nightbringer Initiate is a little weak. You use it to save a total of 4 skill points over your entire career (1 at ECL 5, irrelevant because of the sub level at ECL 6, and then 3 at ECL 7). It would have made more sense if you hadn't had the Rogue level already increasing your cap. I mentioned this in Power, but it didn't really ultimately affect your Power score, so please don't accuse me of double-dinging you. It's a little less than elegant, though, don't you think? I'm not saying that you should have taken Open-Minded instead (I know that spreading out when points are spent is very relevant at the level/s in question), but Open-Minded would have technically netted you more skill points. That seems a little bit of a low return on investment. You do mention Enervation, but it's not like Druids are low on excellent level 4 spells. I think you could have chosen something slightly more elegant.

Overall, I'm willing to put this smack dab in the middle. The quibbles I have are pretty minor, and I'm willing to let the very clean class structure and mostly very readable layout cancel out the single (heartbreaking) illegal skill rank and the weird cowlick skill investment.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 3

Let's start with a feature-by-feature breakdown.

You trade away Trapfinding from your Rogue level with the clear intention of picking it up with Hoardstealer, but since you only get minimally better at dealing with traps (4 more Search ranks over 8 class levels / 10 character levels? Sorry, not impressed) after entering Hoardstealer, that isn't much and you really don't show it off. I don't think I'd have even called it out if you kept Trapfinding from Rogue, but the fact that you clearly altered your build specifically to have HS be your source of Trapfinding adds it to the conversation, and you didn't follow through.

You mention that darkvision applies in WS, which might matter. It's not much, but I suppose it's something.

You ignore Trap Sense.

You mention Deep Pockets once or twice but don't do anything new or interesting with it, basically all but ignoring it.

You argue that Treasure Dowsing combines well with a burrowing WS form for extra loot; that's goofy and may or may not work, but points for trying. (Sincerely.)

You barely mention the spells at all, but you use the fact that Hoardstealer is an arcane casting class to enable AH and to make your big burly pet smarter/more interesting, which is not nothing. The fact that Hoardstealer was only partially dead weight instead of entirely dead weight compared to your T1 casting baseline is something of a rarity.

You get a little bit of utility out of Hoardstealer's skill list, but you mostly pick skills without super-high bonuses for Skill Mastery, so I'm not convinced that it's something that's really critical to you.

What you care about the most out of the SI seems to be basically having something to advance with AH, which I suppose isn't the worst avenue of optimization I've seen. I do appreciate that you make an argument about doing something with Treasure Dowsing that most folks can't/don't, and I still do have to admit that it's clever to get AH involved. Still, I feel like you kind of dropped the ball in the skill department, you really only mention AH's actual spells by name once, and you don't do anything with Deep Pockets. I'll plop this in the middle and give it a 3. You would have scored higher if you had made a cogent argument about Hoardstealer's skills letting you do things (perhaps especially in Wild Shape) that you couldn't have with just Druid and if you'd done more with the spells and Deep Pockets.

Final Thoughts:
There was a lot to like here! Your biggest stumbling block was likely the skills, since I really can't figure out exactly why you made all the choices that you made in that department, and that made the SI a bit less of a good match with the rest of the build. But you managed to bring in a T1 caster that didn't entirely fight with the SI, and that's noteworthy.

Zaq

2018-07-21, 08:24 PM

Part two of my judgments.

Paulie Pocket: 16.25

Isn't it just a crying shame that Hoardstealer doesn't get Baleful Polymorph (or another way to forcibly reduce an unwilling target's size) as a spell? That would have been perfect. Not your fault that it's not on the table, but still.

Originality: 5

I'll be honest: I didn't expect this. There's some really clever stuff here. That is a genuinely novel way to use Deep Pockets. I had forgotten that Body Pouch and Barbed Stinger even exist, and I don't think I've ever seen the Wormtail Belt used as a main attack method before, given that it's got such awful limitations. Well done. It's mostly a build with one specific gimmick, but it is a hell of a gimmick, and the amount of effort you spend building around this gimmick is impressive. Even more impressive is the fact that I'm willing to buy that this probably works. It's kind of the opposite of foolproof, but I don't think there are any fundamental rules conflicts that would prevent you from at least trying to do this insane thing you want to do. Yeah, I think you've earned a maximum score in Originality today.

Power: 3.75

I love your use of Deep Pockets. The pieces come together in a surprisingly logical way, and I agree that the "irretrievably lost" clause is your horrifying ace in the hole if they try to cut their way out.

As absolutely hilarious as your Body Pouch trick is, let's be realistic that it's likely to only work a very limited number of times per day simply because you don't have enough PP to manifest a 7 PP (+2 size) Expansion very often. I calculate you as having 14 PP per day at your apex (ECL 9+), so let's be honest here: this is a big ol' nova. [Side note: next time, please throw in a table or something showing your PP progression, okay?] A really weird and different nova than what we might normally see from a user of psionics, but still not something that works over and over. That said, you put enough effort into this crazy combo that I'm willing to accept that you're probably going to pull it off now and again, and as I indicated in the first sentence of this paragraph, it truly is hilarious.

I'm not sure that you can both spear someone with your stinger and maneuver them into the pouch in the same round. The Wormtail Belt is very clear that it cannot be used as a secondary natural attack. If it's a primary natural attack (and it can't be a secondary), then you don't get iteratives with it, and you don't have an "attack" left to use to force a grabbed critter into the bag. So you're a little slower than advertised. I do feel like there's a fair bit of prep necessary to really get your primary pouch trick working (you have to spend an action to Expand, too; you'll PROBABLY already have Deep Pockets active when combat starts, but that might not be true right when you first get it). I'm still willing to forgive that because it's just that amusing to me, but we do need to be clear-eyed about the fact that it really does involve an awful lot of moving parts.

How interesting are you when your main trick is recharging or irrelevant? You're vaguely Totemist-shaped, but you've got the majority of your melds (including the all-important totem bind) tied up in your body bag trick until you leave Hoardstealer. You mention getting claws from the Claws of the Wyrm, though that's not going to work very well at 12+ if you're actually shaping the Mauling Gauntlets (with the MG in your Hands slot and your Girallon Arms necessarily in the Arms slot, you can't put the CotW anywhere). You do mention the Dragon Tail, but considering how janky it is compared to every other natural-attack-granting meld in the game, I'm not sure that's a good thing. But overall you've got maybe one meld free (if that; that's assuming that at least the Wormtail Belt and Girallon Arms are locked in place) for the vast majority of your career, and one single meld isn't worth that much versatility. (You also seem to overload your Hands slot in the late game, if your mention of "pounce" means the Sphinx Claws.)

Psychic Rogue does offer some interesting utility early on, though it's debatable if you'll ever use it later: you have, as mentioned, exactly enough PP to become Huge twice per day. If you use your PP on literally anything else, you're down to 1/day for your biggest boost. You didn't really indicate to me whether that's something you plan on relying on. Sure, there's some flexibility and you don't really have to choose in advance, but at the same time, if you don't tell me just how much you're prioritizing your backup options at the expense of your main trick, how am I supposed to know just how aware you are of your own limitations? I will give you some credit for the early game (no sense in binding the Wormtail Belt until ECL 6, so at least your 3-5 range is workable), though I'm not totally blown away.

I suppose that the shockingly broad wording on Barbed Stinger does mean that you can at least attempt to grapple things, even big things, even when you aren't trying to shove them into your pouch. That's fairly unusual, to be honest. I'm not sure if you've got quite enough juice to always win said grapple checks if you aren't fully enlarged (I don't need to tell you how hard it is to grapple ginormous things, do I?), especially since you've got really low essentia until post-Hoardstealer, but even if the Wormtail Belt is usually not a great main attack, Barbed Stinger at least makes you really, really annoying with it. If that's your actual strategy, you'll have weirdly low damage for a STR-primary brawler, but it's probably more effective than it looks. It'd be nice if you could have forced the actual Improved Grapple feat in there somewhere; Barbed Stinger prevents the AoO, but getting a nice +4 on every grapple check you make would have been meaningful.

Your skills aren't bad. It's fairly shocking how few of your competitors actually prioritize both Search and Disable, but you've actually got the ability to deal with some degree of traps, which is niche but not useless. You get enough Tumble to have some basic mobility, you have some late investment in the perceptive skills (would have been nice to see it earlier, but I know why that didn't really happen), you pay the necessary attention to Concentration, and you've got enough UMD to have a wand or two lying around. Okay. I've seen worse. You're not really a primary skillmonkey (you don't have enough incarnum mojo to rely on that for your skill bonuses until very late in the game, and you don't have QUITE as much depth as a pure Rogue or another traditional skillmonkey might), but you do have a few things that you care about, and I'm willing to bet that you can solve a few problems with them. You did waste a Skill Mastery slot on UMD; it's not stress or distraction that prevents you from taking 10 on UMD, after all. It's a clause in the skill itself, like Truespeak. At least your other SM choices make sense, though I would have liked to have seen Tumble in there. Can't have everything, I guess.

I've said enough. Let's put a number on here. I think you've nailed about a 3.75. You're above average because your big flashy trick is probably workable now and again, you've got a reasonable skill baseline, and you might occasionally pull off grappling even if you aren't firing on every single one of your cylinders. You'd have scored higher if your main trick was less use-limited, if you had made it more explicit what you're doing when you're not trying to grapple, and if you had less of a traffic jam among your soulmelds.

Elegance: 2.5

Basic legality check: You underspent by 1 skill point at 9th. You overspend by 2 points at level 19 and again at level 20, which is honestly fairly confusing. You had been doing so well! Your feats and class choices are legal, at least. What happened at the very end there? Must have been a late revision or something. Still heartbreaking to go off the rails at the last second, though. I think we can truly say that you just didn't stick the landing.

Shape Soulmeld was kind of a wasted feat. I don't believe that the bonus to Strength checks applies to grapple checks. (Other combat maneuvers like bull rush call out that you specifically make Strength checks, while grapple calls for grapple checks. Grapple checks involve STR, but so do typical melee attack rolls, and I don't think the Mauling Gauntlets apply to basic melee attacks.) This is in Elegance rather than in Power because, oddly enough, I don't think this has a major effect on your ability to grapple; you're well into the highest levels of play before you have anywhere near enough essentia to simultaneously max out your Girallon Arms and put anything into your Mauling Gauntlets, so really you're at worst losing about a +2 from the shape. That's not gonna make or break you and doesn't fundamentally change how I'm scoring your Power, so I'm going to instead mark it against your Elegance for wasting a feat and for trying to misapply a bonus. (One Mistake, One Penalty. We're keeping this firmly in one category.) It would have made more sense to take Bonus Essentia or maybe a more general-purpose soulmeld there. I mean, this feels weird to rag on you for taking Shape Soulmeld for the Mauling Gauntlets, because SS: MG is one of my favorite tricks. I just don't think that you can use the MG for what you say you can use 'em for.

Class structure is fairly logical. Skill-heavy dip at 1st, get the Totem Bind online ASAP, go back to a skill-heavy class to finish the SI's prereqs and to set yourself up to have exactly enough ML after Practiced Manifester to become Huge, take 10 levels of the SI at the earliest opportunity, then finish with Totemist. Makes perfect sense to me if we accept the premise that the last handful of levels of Hoardstealer matter, which is a useful fiction we're just going to have to deal with.

Other than the hard stumble on Shape Soulmeld, your feats make sense. Your first four are all geared directly towards making your body bag trick work, and it's never a bad choice for a Totemist-based build to finish off with a few Open Chakras. (Shame you didn't have the CON to get Open Greater at 18th, but eh, it's 18th, and you didn't call out any Throat or Waist-based melds as being something that would be especially interesting with a non-Totem bind.) The only thing that kind of feels like a prereq waiting around is Body Pouch, which isn't going to play its main role for at least 6ish levels until the whole trick comes online, but I don't see a way that such a fate could have been readily avoided.

You made some good choices with your race. A -4 to DEX is a little painful, but skarn provides much-needed STR and the all-important [reptilian] subtype, while dragonborn provides nice wings, a bonus to CON to help with meldshaping prereqs, and access to a source of natural weapons without using your totem bind. (I mean, you lost skarn's natural weapons when you went dragonborn, so it's good that you got more than just the Claws of the Wyrm out of the deal, but still, good choices overall.)

This feels like about a 2.5. The clean class structure and good choice of race cancel out your small but still illegal screw-up with your skill points at the very end, and that poor choice with Shape Soulmeld brought you a bit below average.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 5

You've built around basically the class's only unique feature, so that looks good on you. You can't swap in something that isn't Hoardstealer without losing your crown jewel. The later levels are probably kind of suboptimal on you compared to, say, more PsyRogue or more Totemist, but that Deep Pockets trick goes a long way. You even align your skills with the class's trap focus.

I gave Splash Gordon an A for effort, and I think this build deserves the same. You have one big trick, and that trick cannot function without Hoardstealer. The vast majority of your build resources are designed to support this trick. You even enter the SI ASAP and finish it out. Even if you don't get as much benefit from all of the later features as you do from Deep Pockets, this is still a build in which Hoardstealer is a load-bearing central column, and that's worth recognizing. Congratulations.

Final Thoughts: This is a very impressive build overall. It's wild enough to really feel new without overreaching into something that doesn't play nice with the rules, and its reliance on something only Hoardstealer has means that you have a legitimate reason to bother with the secret ingredient. Nicely done!

Shellie Caleesye: 11

This (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsiiIa6bs9I) seems relevant.

Originality: 3

Hmm. I'm seeing a lot of nice pieces put together, but I'm not seeing anything terribly unconventional. This is a completely solid skillmonkey of the "heavy on skill ranks, light/moderate on incarnum" style, but I'm not seeing what makes it different from the next skillmonkey in that style. It does seem to flow together pretty cohesively, though, and it's been a while since I've seen a build with quite so many picks for Skill Mastery, so I suppose that's something that's good for you. I'm willing to give this a midline score of 3. It holds together and does feel like a build rather than like a clustering of fragments or like something copied out of the example section of a handbook, but I was hoping for just a little more explanation of why you're cooler than the skillful guy next to you. Your write-up was a start and got you this far, but I think there could have been more.

Power: 2.75

That's a fairly impressive amount of skill mastery. I applaud you for not wasting a slot on UMD, so that's good. You did, however, seem to waste a slot on Sleight of Hand. It's legal to choose a skill in which you have no ranks (for some reason), but since Sleight of Hand can't be used untrained, you're a "master" in a skill you aren't allowed to attempt. So that's weird. I guess the Theft Gloves let you use it untrained, but then you're locking in one of your (actually rather small number of) melds, which seems less than ideal on this particular character, even if the Theft Gloves are a pretty natural choice for you overall. I'd have liked to have seen at least one "I'm trained, really!" rank. You can't tell me you never had a single rank to spare. This is far from a dealbreaker, but it is nonetheless worthy of comment.

You are a little coy about what benefit you get out of Wyrmgrafter. I understand that you're saying that you're using it to recycle the tissues of improperly hatched wyrmlings, which is relatively clever, but you didn't actually tell me what you're doing with it or why it makes you more powerful (we are, after all, currently grading Power). Don't forget that you still need specific spells to make specific grafts; UMD is a thing and so are cooperative spellcasters, but I would have liked to have seen you mention that so that I know that you're aware of it and considering it. But even if that's covered, why do you care about making draconic grafts? What ones do you want? Why is that worth the space in your build?

Quick Reconnoiter is a classy feat that I've always liked, but I'm not sure how critical it is on a character who's not really trying to make attacks. If you're waving weapons around and trying to spend your actions killin' dudes, then being able to try to detect hidden things without wasting actions is fairly meaningful! But you aren't really spending your actions killin' dudes. Does it even matter to you if you have to spend a move action looking for something? Action economy is much squishier and more easily managed when not in combat, and you don't really seem to worry too much about what happens in combat.

I admit to being completely baffled by your choice to take Mounted Combat and Trample with a single rank in Ride. What exactly are you riding, and why are you so confident in your ability to do anything meaningful with the skill in which you invest the fewest ranks? You aren't planning on riding a dragon you raised, are you? Seriously? That takes five years, per Draconomicon pg. 13. (And then you have to wait for the dragon to get big enough to accommodate a Medium rider, which takes longer. Most dragons other than red and gold need to be a minimum of juvenile—26 years, according to MM1 pg. 68—before they become Large. Even red and gold take 6 years.) That's, like, as long as it takes to research a personal truename. Or to craft any of the trophies for Trophy Collector. (It's actually worse than that. Like, way worse. I'm trying to comically gesture to things that already take so long as to be functionally unusable, and this is worse. That's how impractical rearing a dragon really is.) I mean, sure, downtime is downtime and it's unrealistic to be going 24/7, but if you're actually having four level-appropriate encounters per day, you go from 1 to 20 in something stupid like 2 or 3 months. Even taking a week or two off between each level, that's nowhere near enough time to raise a dragon. Even taking six weeks off between levels doesn't do that much on this time scale. So I'm not really sure why you spent those feats the way you did. I love the fluff on stealing dragon eggs and using the obscure rules from Draconomicon to raise them, but those feats seem way out of place to me. The scheme is amusing enough that I applaud spelling out that your skill bonuses are technically high enough, but I don't think it's sufficiently feasible to assume that you're actually going to, over the course of this character's time in actual play, end up riding any dragon you've hatched from an egg unless you're doing some hardcore timeskips. Sufficiently hardcore that we may need to worry about your character advancing an age category.

Judging noncombatant characters like this is always hard. You've got good utility; no one's gonna deny that. If a skill check can solve a problem, there's a good chance that you can be the one to do it. You combine Rogue-style skillmonkeying with Incarnate-style skillmonkeying (kinda low essentia, but your actual ranks are about a hundred times better than a normal Incarnate's, so that's not to be ignored), and you play it to the hilt. I very much like you calling out what those skills let you do; that's an excellent help when it comes to gauging what your Power should be. You have less non-skill utility than someone with early-game access (or even mid-game access) to actual chakra binds, but you do indeed have skills.

We also have to be honest about the fact that you have basically no ability to contribute to a fight that has actually started, and I'm not getting a full Kole Naerrin-style explanation of why you're confident that you'll basically never roll init. That's a headache, and it's a drag on your power.

To your credit, you're very clear about the fact that you're not trying to be a combatant (well, aside from the baffling choices of Mounted Combat and Trample), but that doesn't mean that you aren't kind of deficient in dealing with a meaningful chunk of the game, even if you're remarkably cool when not in a struggle to the death.

It's almost trivial by level 18, but why bother with Nimble Charge, especially if you're making it a favored trick? When are you ever charging? You don't seem to care about attacking at all, let alone attacking in a manner that puts you in harm's way. I guess it works on running as well as charging, but still, kinda out there; the actual Run action is hard to use, especially in a dungeon-type scenario. As a trick, I can see it; as a favored trick, I'm less convinced. Still pretty trivial at the level bracket in question, but as I keep saying, every choice should matter.

I'm not convinced that Antiquarian is useful to you. Traps don't only become a problem after you enter Hoardstealer, and you're one of the few chefs with enough trap-related juice (full ranks and the Theft Gloves? That's nontrivial) that you might have a fighting chance against traps in the pre-ECL-6 bracket. It's cute that you come full circle at the very end and lay out in your final level bracket that you can autosucceed on the Antiquarian check after all your late-game investment, but I'm not sure that it's relevant in the late game, while Trapfinding may have been relevant in the early game. I know that conventional wisdom says to trade away any possible features from your pre-SI classes if those features would then be granted by the SI (because then you're "using the SI to the fullest"), but I don't think you're coming out ahead in Power.

Enough words. Time for action! And by action I mean a damned number. I'mma call this 2.75. You've got killer skills, but you can't contribute basically anything when there's a d20 roll called for that isn't a skill check, and you've got enough questionable choices to keep you below the midline. You'd have scored higher with more focus to your feats, with a cleaner early game, and with (of course) some meaningful offense or else with a really compelling argument that you'd never actually need to fight anything.

Elegance: 2.75

Basic legality check: You fell prey to a classic mistake, I'm afraid. Able Learner makes cross-class skills cost the same as in-class skills. It does not, however, actually make all skills class skills for you, so it does not raise the cap for how many ranks you can have in a cross-class skill that has never been a class skill for any of your classes. Heal, unfortunately, is not a class skill for any of your classes until Exemplar. You exceed your max ranks at ECL 8 (max should be 5.5, but you have 6), and it gets worse from there. To compound this, you can't have 10 ranks in Heal by ECL 12 (your max would be 7.5), making Wyrmgrafter an illegal choice for you. You otherwise seem to be legal, but that's a pretty hard stumble, unfortunately.

You've got the synergy direction on Concentration wrong. 5 ranks in Conc gives you a +2 to Autohypnosis, but 5 ranks in Autohypnosis has nothing to do with your bonus to Conc. At least that doesn't stop you from getting your DC 15. Minor, but again, I want everything you're presenting me to matter and to be correct. This would have been bad if you had been really relying on it, but if nothing else, it is worthy of comment even if it doesn't quite rise to the level of a penalty.

I can't remember the last time I saw a character take exactly one level of Totemist. That honestly surprised me, and I found it a little jarring. I understand that you're specifically interested in just shaping melds for skill bonuses rather than getting all the cool Totem bind effects, but, you know, cool Totem bind effects! This part, at least, failed my "does the build make sense one level at a time" test, because I kept anticipating the second level of Totemist and never got it. The rest of the level progression is reasonable enough if we assume (for some reason) that it's a priority to enter and exit Hoardstealer as quickly as possible.

Your skill progression is remarkably smooth. Almost disturbingly so. I suppose it makes sense that someone with that many skill points and Able Learner would rarely need to play catchup, so that's pretty nice.

I genuinely like the way you laid out "here's what I can accomplish with X skill at character level Y." That's the kind of thing I was looking for when I asked you to hold my hand and spell out what makes your character cool. Thumbs up there.

I think that this is about another 2.75. The way you spelled out your skill baseline is excellent and would have brought you above the midline if you'd been legal, but there's nothing else particularly elegant about your build, and I can't reward that big illegal mess with Heal and Wyrmgrafter.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.5

Hmmm. You use Skill Mastery pretty well. You use the caster level to qualify for Obtain Familiar and you mention that the spells exist, but you don't tell me which ones you care about or why (aside from an offhand reference to FoM that I only noticed after the fact). You name-drop Hide from Dragons, and I'm willing to believe that it might come up on you once or twice, given your playstyle. You pretty much don't mention anything else about Hoardstealer, though, and since you've got 3 levels of Rogue already, a slightly smaller level investment (7 more, versus 8 levels of HS) could have gotten you Skill Mastery from Rogue, plus more skill points, more bonus feats, and the ability to qualify for Savvy Rogue, which is all kinds of awesome, losing only the familiar. So I'm not super convinced that you need or even particularly love Hoardstealer. Familiars are great, but if that's your primary thing to show off for your investment, I'm less than impressed.

The build isn't very reliant upon the Secret Ingredient and doesn't really have any unique synergy with it. You aren't actively fighting against it, but you haven't made a strong case that it's very important to you. You even explicitly say that your life is pretty similar before it and after it, which doesn't speak well to your UoSI.

You do enter the SI at the earliest level and then take 10 uninterrupted levels of it, but I really wish that you'd made a stronger case for why you bothered doing so. I'm left with the impression that you're just doing this because it's the SI rather than because it's the right choice for the build.

I do acknowledge that Skill Mastery is very important to this character. But since you do get an almost equal amount of SM from another source and you could get just as much SM (plus other goodies, including 16 extra skill points and a pile of feats) from advancing your base class the almost the same number of levels (technically fewer), that's only so impressive when you don't use much else from the SI.

This feels about like a 2.5. You don't get anything unique out of the class and can replicate almost everything you care about just by advancing what you've already laid out, but you do use the class to at least somewhat advance your primary goal, and it's less actively anti-synergistic with you than with some of the worst examples this round. You'd have scored higher with more focus on the early features, with a deeper discussion of the spells, and with simply more explanation given about why you should bother at all.

Final Thoughts:

This is a respectable build that's honestly fairly sandbagged by the SI. If you hadn't felt compelled to put a bunch of Hoardstealer in here, I think you would have had even more skills and probably even a bit of offensive oomph. Your fluff (and your skill-calculating crunch) about stealing dragon eggs is amusing, if somewhat impractical. The purpose of the build was clear, which is not something all of your competitors can say. Where I struggled was sometimes figuring out whether your purpose was level-appropriate when your limitations are taken into account.

Mellon: 8

I do appreciate naming a follower of a goddess of wealth after a robber baron. Classy touch.

Originality: 3.5

It's been a while since I've seen any of the draconic Initiate of XYZ feats used, and it's not every day that I see a "skill Cleric" who doesn't use the Kobold and Trickery domains. Using the Wealth domain to get Appraise as a class skill is reasonably clever, given that Appraise is actually kind of difficult to find. So those are good things.

I didn't expect to see a Cleric entry into Hoardstealer at all, to be honest. My problem is that the build failed to sell me on Cleric making any sense with Hoardstealer. Like, at all. So while it's not so much of a shameless grab that I'm going to directly penalize for it, it's close enough to a shameless grab that I'm not inclined to reward just from the juxtaposition alone.

You don't really have any unique or interesting tricks/strategies/combos. Sovereign Speaker has the potential to be interesting, but it wasn't given any focus. It's not entirely fair to call this build completely generic, but I also don't think it succeeds at bringing anything new to the table. I'm gauging my own emotions as I read these builds, and I'm looking for "ooh, that's neat!" or "wow, I wish I'd thought of that!" or something similar. Reading this build, I mostly got "okay, so what?"

I'll focus on the good rather than the bad and give you a 3.5, mostly for the reasons in my first paragraph. You'd have scored higher if you made the whole greater than the sum of the parts or if you had any sort of remarkable tactics up your sleeve.

Power: 2

So, um, you're a Cloistered Cleric with some weird feats for about five levels. That's an acceptable baseline for the early game given that, y'know, spells are fun. You then stop advancing your Cleric spells for most of the rest of the build, minus a few levels here and there fairly late on, in favor of, well, what, exactly? Hoardstealer offers excruciatingly slow arcane spell advancement, the same number of skill points as your foundation class, and very few abilities that get much attention in your write-up. You have that name-dropping section at the end, but you mostly gripe about how underwhelming the SI's features are. It's true that they're not necessarily very strong in a vacuum, but that's why it's extremely important for you to sell me on why you bothered interrupting your full divine caster with 10 levels of Hoardstealer. You, um, don't really do this. When you start as a T1 full caster and then dive into a Secret Ingredient, I'm expecting you to tell me what your character really does that's so cool that it's worth interrupting your casting for, or else I'm expecting you to show me some unique and interesting combination of your full-casting abilities and what the SI offers. I didn't get that out of this build.

If we accept that you can get into SS at all (which, as you'll see in Elegance, I have problems with—but I will follow One Mistake, One Penalty and score your Power as though your illegal class levels are legal), you don't choose especially poor domains, but you don't point out to me why they're unusually good or interesting on you. They're perfectly fine generic domains, but they don't seem to have anything to do with the character, the character's focus, or anything like that. But I guess they are decent in a vacuum. It's just a shame that you basically presented them in a vacuum.

Your skills are bizarre. You have way more Disable Device than you do Search. Why is that? Both skills are important if you want to be a trapmonkey, but you can't disable what you don't know about. (Sure, SOME traps will just fire a bolt or two at you and then let you try to disable them, but what about traps that alert the dungeon's denizens of intruders, or ones that flood the chamber in some way, or or or or . . . Why risk it?)

Knowledge Devotion confuses me. I'll choose to gloss over the contradiction inherent in a Cloistered Cleric who's devoted to a deity without the Knowledge domain trading out the domain for the feat, since CChamp semi-directly contradicts itself there. But let's assume that it's legal and then focus on whether you make it worthwhile. You only have meaningful investment in 2 knowledge skills (and, really, only in Arcana long-term), and you don't seem to be making too many attacks or investing in too many damaging spells that aren't summons/conjurations (which won't be affected by KD). Why is that more useful than a bonus to CL on Divination spells and access to at least two or three spells that you wouldn't otherwise have? KD is a potentially very useful feat, but even if we accept that a few levels with Lore is enough to fuel the bonus (that's fairly questionable; separately, don't forget that you don't add Lore to your ranks, but you instead choose which one to use when making a check), you don't seem to have anything that you care about spending the bonus on, which is the bigger problem. That doesn't look good on you.

You seem to care an awful lot about your darkvision and your low-light vision. As a result, I'm a little confused as to you seem to have a total of 1 rank in Spot. The darkvision I'll buy as being somewhat useful even without Spot, but you spent an extra level on doubling up on just how far away you can see in low-light conditions; why is that good without Spot? Just kind of weird overall, honestly. I know that there's no such thing as enough skill points, that Hoardstealer is very demanding with its prereqs, and that being a dungeon-monkey is expensive, but still.

You mention casting the Silence spell often enough that it's worth discussing that a bit. I agree that in certain circumstances, the Silence spell is a clever way to avoid detection, and it's more readily available to Clerics than to those with a more Wizardly bent. So that's cool. I will say, though, that I have no idea what you're referring to as your "near permanent silence field." You don't have an especially high number of 2nd level slots or any way of making it last longer than normal, which is far from permanent. It's a nice trick, but it's a profoundly use-limited one that I don't think will be as universal as you seem to think it will be.

I guess I just don't see where this character is trying to go. You're kind of a nontraditional skill-user, but you don't highlight too many spells (other than Silence) that really bolster that particular role, and you lose an awful lot of spellcasting ability in favor of Hoardstealer, which doesn't really contribute to what few stated goals you have outside of getting Trapfinding and, I suppose, getting MOAR DARKVISION for some reason. Your list of favored spells doesn't seem to be geared towards solving any particular kind of problem in really impressive ways; sure, you might pick something different, but as I said in my criteria, it's on you to tell me what you're doing and I'm not just going to assume the absolute best choices in the absence of text telling me about that. So really, I can't avoid this any longer: it's very nice, but what does it DO? You mention being a "support character/backup rogue." which is kind of a starting point, but you really failed to sell me both on how that's interesting and on why you're sufficiently good at it for anyone else to care. Cleric spells are potentially strong, but you don't seem to be doing anything particularly strong with them, and Hoardstealer offers truly minimal improvements to your ability to solve problems. You spend the majority of your feats trying to make yourself more skillful, with somewhat questionable results. Sovereign Speaker doesn't have any particular synergy with the character other than being a generically useful Cleric PrC, but you don't explain why you take it when you do or what it does for you that's really noteworthy. The build just kind of putters around and doesn't seem to have a consistent focus or a strong party role.

I'm feeling somewhere around a 2 for your Power. The fact that you do have some reasonable access to the Cleric list early on and the fact that you pick some generically acceptable domains with SS prevent me from tanking you to the bottom, but you'd have scored much higher if you really spelled out why I'm supposed to care about any of your build choices or what synergy you have between Hoardstealer and Cleric. I'm tempted to drop it more, but I will respect the foundation of spells you've got.

Elegance: 1

I really don't like seeing custom Apprentice feats in Iron Chef. Not one bit. Stick with what WotC gave you before lunging straight for the homebrew. That's going to cost you.

I'm also not super willing to buy your explanation about Initiate of Astilabor and having the Sovereign Host as your patron deity. Yeah, there's the pantheon clause, but the Sovereign Host is already a pantheon, and it doesn't traditionally include Astilabor. There's also a difference between casually venerating multiple deities (which is how I read that text from the PHB) and going deep enough into the service of one deity that you become an "initiate" of that deity while allegedly having another pantheon as your patron. I don't think I really buy your explanation. I'd have been more lenient (though still unhappy about this) without Initiate in the mix, but DrM pg. 15 points out that you have "achieved distinction with [your] deity" and that an initiate feat "presumes a deep level of commitment to a single deity."

You put in enough indirect evidence that you took the Wealth domain at level 1 that I was able to piece that together, but I can't quite tell what your third domain is at level 1. Is it Cavern just because you listed that first? C'mon, man, literally the first thing I put in my criteria was to make this easy for me. Just say what your domains are when you get them. This shouldn't be difficult.

Losing SF: Appraise to dragonborn is reasonably elegant, I suppose.

Basic legality check: (Note: I'm going to be checking your skill points based on the dubious argument that your homebrew Apprentice feat is in play.) You overspent by 1 point at ECL 7. You listed Hide 13 at ECL 10 and ECL 11; this seems to have caused you to underspend by 1 point at 11.

I need to come back to Worldly Focus and Sovereign Speaker. If we assume that Astilabor exists in Eberron (yeah, I know, I know, "if it exists in D&D, it has a place in Eberron," but I still don't find it elegant to mix in mechanically-beneficial devotion to deities in different cosmologies), I might be willing to turn a blind eye to Worldly Focus by accepting that your primary deity is Astilabor but that you pay enough general respect to the SH that you can qualify for WF, because WF's prereq is a little bit looser than Initiate's prereq is, as I read it. But I'm really getting stuck on your ability to qualify for Sovereign Speaker. I straight up don't think that that's compatible with Initiate of Astilabor. Your primary Cleric levels are devoted to Astilabor. Astilabor offers you her unusual domains (which is fine!). You aren't worshiping a vague pantheon of draconic deities or a specific pantheon of the Sovereign Host; you're even more devoted to Astilabor than the average Cleric is, as evidenced by your Initiate feat. I don't think you qualify as "worship the Sovereign Host without venerating one god above the others." Initiate of Astilabor says that you venerate Astilabor above the others. If you want to make the argument that the prereqs for SS should read "must worship the Sovereign Host without venerating one god in the Sovereign Host above the others in the Sovereign Host," then I think that you don't qualify for Initiate of Astilabor anymore, and you arguably shouldn't even have Astilabor as your patron deity anymore. This just doesn't work, and it's just plain not elegant.

Ruathar seems to come out of nowhere. Ruathar is usually what you use to either quickly get a new skill as a class skill or else just to fill some time while waiting to qualify for something else you care about, but neither of those things seems to apply to this build. Taking two levels of Ruathar (advancing Cleric for some reason?) in the middle of eight levels of Hoardstealer is, to say the least, confusing. I guess guaranteeing that you get some Boots of Elvenkind isn't [i]entirely nonsensical, but the second level is bizarre. Even going back to Cloistered Cleric for a level would have gotten you the same BAB, 2 more skill points, the same spellcasting advancement, and a +1 to all of your saves instead of just to Ref and Will. I don't see the cost-benefit analysis working out here. (Elfwise isn't a bad ability, but why take it when you took it? Why interrupt Hoardstealer like that?)

I don't see where you "spelled out" what you're using your familiar for, to be honest. It's not worthless (familiars are useful), but you didn't actually really tell me what you're doing with it. A statblock and a quick list of the basic features inherent to familiars don't mean much.

You have cowlick ranks all over the place. UMD is emblematic of this: one rank at level 1 (why?), some semi-normal investment at levels 5-7 (but still not heavy investment that convinces me that it's reliable for you), then it's forgotten for seven levels until you put in a single rank at 14th and a single rank at 18th. Like, what? What does that even indicate? What is that for? Why bother? What's up with the late-game interest in Sleight of Hand? All I want is a few lines explaining where the cowlicks come from, but you didn't give me that.

I don't really see anything elegant about this build. I hate your homebrew Apprentice feat, I'm disturbed by your deity mishmash, and I don't see any mitigating factors to buoy up your score. Let's move on.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 1.5

Why bother, sir? Why bother? You spent at least three feats on getting your skills up to snuff to be able to qualify for Hoardstealer at all on a Cloistered Cleric chassis. The fact that you spent so much effort on sticking with Cleric instead of, you know, just dipping a level in Rogue or Factotum or something indicates that being a Cleric is really important to you. But then you stop being a Cleric for, like, a long time, and you don't explain why Hoardstealer makes the character better.

I suppose we should look at the class features. You get some mileage out of Trapfinding, though not as much as if you had both high Disable and high Search.

You mention darkvision several times and do end up with a very large pile of it. It's not really firmly clear to me what exactly you're doing with such intense darkvision, but you do have it and you do seem to care about it at least a bit.

You dismiss Trap Sense (which is, admittedly, hard to show off, and you're not unique here). Not your biggest problem by a long shot, of course.

You briefly mention Deep Pockets but then spend a paragraph talking about how a spell you get from your Cleric levels is better; since Deep Pockets is one of the SI's few unique abilities, this is not a way to make me happy when I'm judging your UoSI.

You make no special effort to optimize Hide from Dragons. The same comments about Trap Sense apply here; it's very hard to show off, you weren't alone in not making it sparkle, and it's not your biggest problem, but we're still going down the list.

You explicitly say that you don't try to optimize Treasure Dowsing.

You use the arcane caster level to get a familiar, which is fine as far as it goes, but you hardly mention the spells at all.

You have acceptable choices for Skill Mastery. You don't do anything unusual or special with it, but your choices are reasonable.

So, um, I'm seeing Trapfinding, maybe some darkvision, a little tiny bit of attention to the arcane caster level, and then generic Skill Mastery. But I'm not in any way convinced that the character really cares about being a Hoardstealer. I think they really just want to be a Cleric. A straight Cleric with a quick dip into something for Trapfinding (assuming that you don't want to use the Kobold domain for thematic reasons) would make far more sense here. Honestly, even starting as a Cleric and then moving into actual Rogue for several levels instead of taking Hoardstealer would make slightly more sense. You spend a lot of time and effort getting a Cleric to qualify, but you don't bother showing why a Cleric would ever bother, and the build is clearly suffering as a direct result of having Hoardstealer taking up so much space. I'll give you a 1.5, with the fact that you take all the levels (for some reason) and the fact that you at least parlay the arcane caster level into a nominally potentially useful familiar serving as mitigating factors for why you don't deserve rock bottom. You'd have scored higher if you used the class features instead of just griping about them, if you bothered to show off the spells at all, or if you demonstrated how Cleric makes you better at being a Hoardstealer in a novel or interesting way.

Final Thoughts:

There's not really anything to this build. It's a very bad case of "unrelated build with the SI plopped in the middle," and I can't figure out what you're even really trying to do. I've learned over the years that if your build is mostly spent complaining about the SI rather than trying to use the SI, the only way you're going to pull a good score is if you have at least one really phenomenally interesting trick that the SI lets you do. Build around your beautiful jewel of a trick and, if you must, complain about the SI's other garbage features while you're laying the groundwork for why you really care, but do your best to make it amusing. If you can't think of a single thing to do with the class, then maybe your efforts are better spent judging or prepping for the next round? I mean no offense, but I just didn't see any joy in this build. You didn't communicate to me that you were having fun with what you were doing, and that really came through in the final product. Maybe I'm wrong and you had a blast (and if that's so, I sincerely apologize for stating otherwise), but I really didn't get that sense from you. I sincerely hope that your next build is more fun for you!

Zaq

2018-07-21, 08:29 PM

Part three! We're not done. Why would we be done?

The Professor: 14.25

This isn't going to be a penalty or anything, but when I read the line "That… box. Was that always there?" and then the build wasn't a Solid Snake joke, I got a little bit disappointed. Just a little. (Also, please be advised that I know very little about Doctor Who, but I've picked up a few of the basic ideas from cultural osmosis.)

Originality: 5

I can safely say that I didn't expect, like, any of this. I haven't cracked the SBG in so long that I forgot where my copy is, and I didn't expect a Persistificer. I didn't even expect a warforged scout (partly because they're usually pretty suboptimal, but such is life). You make a shaky but real argument that Hoardstealer at least partially contributes to your shtick that Artificer started, which, again, is not something I saw coming. Your Artificerness is mostly pretty much textbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?427628-Disregard-Money-Acquire-Buff-Spells-Artificers-without-the-Artifice), but this still feels like a fairly fresh take on it. This is pretty much exactly what I was talking about when I said that it's okay to use well-known optimization tactics if you've got a way to put a new spin on them, and I think this qualifies. I'm willing to give you a perfect score here. I genuinely didn't think that I'd see anything like this, but it's still relevant to the ingredient in question. Good show!

Power: 4

I confess to being suspect of any build that relies too heavily upon an ability that costs XP (namely Spell-Storing Item) as what appears to be a primary strategy. I know, I know, XP is a river, and you're likely to gain more XP from any given challenge that a Spell-Storing Item let you overcome than you spent powering the SSI itself. I know. It still just kind of triggers a deep-set gag reflex I have, though. I hate the concept of being behind on XP. I'm trying not to let this color my judgment too much, but it's there. (Speaking of losing XP, "upgrading" from Kitt to Kaynein involves dismissing Kitt, which still costs XP. And there's no exception to the rule about needing to wait a year and a day, either. You'd have been better off here not mentioning Kitt at all and just waiting for Kaynein.)

Reservations aside, though, you've brought an awful lot of magical utility here. Like, an awful lot. I do wonder if you've got quite as much staying power as you seem to assume (daily infusions aren't exactly unlimited), but a few well-chosen Persists do go a long way, and it's true that SSI provides Spellpool-esque levels of flexibility with a minute or two of prep time, and that's pretty impressive. I believe that you might be somewhat more limited than average if you happen to get caught with your metaphorical pants down, but you do seem to have poured a bit of effort into minimizing how often that might happen. It's been a while since I really looked at Artificer. I forgot how disgustingly powerful it is just with its base features, honestly.

The other thing that gives me pause about you is that you don't seem to have much to do with your actions once initiative is rolled. You're pretty much a pure support character, but you didn't go full Kole Naerrin and present an argument about how you're so good at your chosen tasks that you can expect to basically never need to fight anything. I'm not saying that you'll have no effect on a combat, of course, since you can prebuff like a boss. (It'll be tricky for you to Persist spells on your allies—you've read the handbook, so you know what limits there are on spells that can and can't be Persisted, and only you can prevent forest fires activate the SSIs you make—but you might be able to load them up with a few non-Persisted buffs if you're lucky.) But regardless of whether you've prebuffed or not, you don't seem to really have much use for a standard action once combat actually starts. You're still a very useful support character in general, but I don't feel like you made a strong argument for your usefulness in an actual fight scene, at least not before very high levels when you start talking about crap like Planar Binding and Summon Giants. The fact that you do seem to need a party doesn't play 100% nicely with you using personal-range teleportation to get into and out of your force-enclosed (implied to be doorless) stronghold at high levels, but that's a relatively minor oversight.

Having high Search without high Disable is awkward, but if you have to pick just one, it's better to find a trap and then have to creatively think of a solution to it than it is to be able to get rid of traps that you only found by setting them off the first time. Also, calling yourself a scout (racial names notwithstanding) with no Spot/Listen is, well, a bit questionable. Not unworkable, but less than ideal.

Overall, this seems like a solid 4 to me. You've got strong self-Persistomancy, above-average (for a Hoardstealer, at least) party buffing, obnoxiously versatile spontaneity with about a minute or two of preparation, and an impressively outfitted base of operations. You'd have scored higher if you had convinced me that you have meaningful on-the-spot contributions to a fight you hadn't exhaustively prepared for in advance, if you'd have laid out more clearly how your ability to buff your allies is more than a tiny fraction of your ability to self-buff, and if you hadn't had the stumble with the familiar swap.

Elegance: 2.25

Basic legality check: I really wish you would have called out which skills are cross-class like I asked you to in my guidelines. Checking your skills was harder as a result. That said, your skills appear to be legal, as do your feats and your PrC. Well done. This is far, far rarer than it has any right to be.

I will say that your choice to bring in Landlord and the SBG in general is definitely testing my commitment to my "no penalty for obscure sources" rule. It's a lot of work checking to figure out exactly what the hell you're doing with that stronghold of yours! I'm not saying that you shouldn't have done it, because it's reasonably clever, and I will adhere to my guidelines of not penalizing just for legal sources used, but man, you're definitely making me work for this judgment! Still, you've laid out your intended upgrades in a surprisingly easy-to-read manner, so I can't complain too much. I'll actually commend you for it; failure to provide that upgrade table actually would have gone much worse for you.

I will say that relying on a constantly upgrading stronghold is rather at odds with your assertion that you don't need or want much downtime. SBG pg. 9 specifies that building a stronghold takes 1 week per 10,000 gp. That's some noticeable downtime, especially once you get to higher levels and start gaining 50k or 100k at each step. Your stronghold is still an excellent source of power, but you're not as elegantly independent of downtime as you advertise.

My biggest quibble, honestly, is the fact that you state repeatedly that you're relying on SSI rather than on crafted wands (fine so far) and that you also say that you're using Hoardstealer spells to power Wand Bonding. I've read your description pretty carefully, and I get the strong impression that you're trying to use the "effectively a wand" clause of SSI to funnel Hoardstealer spells into your SSIs. I've graded in the other three categories as though that were legal and functional (so think carefully before disputing this and claiming that you aren't doing this, because it may affect your other scores, and not in the way that you like), but it's more of a questionable rules interpretation than I like to make, and I think it's somewhat less than elegant. Even if we accept it as legal, I don't think it's elegant.

The amount of skill points you spend cross-class is actually fairly breathtaking. By my count, you spend 126 skill points cross-class (or, by another measure, 63 skill points that you didn't need to spend—you could have almost maxed three more skills if you'd hypothetically been in-class the whole time, impossible as that would have been on this build)! I suppose I should admire your bloody-minded determination to stay stealthy even though Hide/MS are class skills for exactly one of your twenty levels. You seem to have turned razor smarts into a blunt implement and just kept your skills up with brute force. Your dedication to alchemy, though, seems a bit perverse, given your stated aversion to downtime. (Armorsmithing I can forgive as a self-healing option for a 'forged.) It's not a completely useless skill, but I'm not sure why it's worth so many cross-class points when you don't seem to be doing anything unusual or interesting with it. I don't see any mention of it at all in your write-up, just in your build, so I'm left wondering why you bothered. If it had been in-class for you most of the time, that'd be one thing, but you sacrificed quite a lot and never told me why that was a cool thing to do.

Your class structure comes close to making perfect sense. Since you didn't enter the SI as soon as you qualified anyway, there's part of me that feels like it would have made more sense to take one more level in Artificer first just to get 3rd level SSIs on the table before taking your great jaunt into the stealing of hoards. Artificer 5 is still a reasonable breakpoint (3rd level infusions and a weapon familiar), I guess. You don't have any class choices that come completely out of nowhere, though, which is refreshing. You know, assuming that the SI makes sense in the first place, which is a game we mostly have to play anyway.

Almost all of your feat choices matter, so that's nice.

I wish you'd mentioned what's up with those cowlick ranks in Spellcraft and Autohypnosis at 19 and 20. I understand that you sometimes don't really have a place to put a spare rank (you've basically caught up your primary skills by then; I get it), but I still wish you'd given me at least a token explanation of what you were trying to do. I want every choice you make to matter.

You appear to have swapped on your table when Artificer grants Craft Wand and Metamagic Spell Trigger, but that doesn't seem to be affecting your legality or your choices much, so that's minor.

I don't see what rules you used to make up new powers to give your weapon familiar. Intelligent items can be enchanted, but the DMG rules seem to imply that intelligent item powers (which the items activate on their action) aren't exactly the same thing as normal item powers? It's unclear. I'll mostly give you the benefit of the doubt, but I would recommend calling out exactly where you got those rules from and how you calculated your costs. They seem to be the standard "add a spell to an item" rules, but my concern is that intelligent items are weird, and the intelligent item powers listed in the DMG don't seem to quite match the prices for spell effects that the user (rather than the item) activates. So I'm not actually convinced that your weapon familiar can be the one to spend actions on No Light and whatever. The odd saving grace here is that since you don't really have much in the way of ways to spend your own standard actions (plenty of ways to spend a minute or two, but few ways to spend a single action each round), you don't lose that much functionality from not outsourcing the action to your item. Which is honestly pretty weird, but this is kind of a weird build. (Mostly weird in a good way.) That's why I'm sticking this in Elegance rather than Power. It doesn't affect your Power all that much, but the fact that the rules don't seem to work exactly the way you want them to doesn't strike me as perfectly elegant.

I'm going to give this build about a 2.25 in Elegance. I don't have to take off points for being illegal, which is good, but I also don't want to give out a bonus just for, you know, not cheating. The clean class structure and clean feat structure buoy you up a bit, but the massive inefficiency in skill points (especially C: Alchemy) and the squishy rules you have to get involved with lower your score below average.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 3

Let's just go down the list, I suppose.

Getting No Light is a good way to use darkvision. If anyone gets credit for using some kind of custom magic item, it's a bloody Artificer. Doesn't help with other things that have darkvision (like, say, most things that live in the dark), but it's better than nothing, so I applaud the effort. It'd mean more if you had meaningful offensive options and strong ways to harm the darkvisionless creatures you include in the area of your cantrip (and let's not kid ourselves; it is, in fact, a bloody cantrip), but still, it's something.

You pay a little lip service to Trap Sense, but I disagree with your glib assertion that you "disable things as you go" with your whopping 5 whole ranks in DD.

Deep Pockets is not useless on you, but if you look at some of your competitors, you can see why I don't feel like you went especially above and beyond with it. Not needing to breathe (and being Small) and therefore being able to hide inside it is cute, but you didn't say what you really do with such a trick.

You completely fail to mention Hide from Dragons. Even if it's situational as hell, the fact that you didn't even acknowledge its existence isn't exciting. This is far from the worst thing about your build and you are far from alone here, but it's still there. Or not there, as the case may be.

You make a brave argument about Treasure Dowsing being a good way to sense outside your stronghold. I guess if you've really carefully removed all of the, to use your example, steel from your stronghold (so you aren't just pinging on yourself), it might conceivably be useful, but if it's your primary way of sensing things outside of your rapidly moving box, I can see a lot going wrong there. Partial credit for effort, I guess.

I admit to being fairly unimpressed with your use of Skill Mastery. You know better than to pick UMD as a Skill Mastery option. It's legal to pick, but it doesn't do anything. Stress or distraction aren't what prevent taking 10 on UMD; it's a clause in the skill itself, just like Truespeak. In general, I actually kind of question your SM picks. UMD has been covered. Search is a little questionable (how often are you searching in an environment where you can't take 10, especially with no ranks in Concentration?), but I can see it coming up now and again. Hide/MS are rock solid, so no complaints there. DD and OL confuse me because you really only seem to have very bare-bones ranks in them. You don't seem to need to use them often in a stressful environment, and your total bonus is low enough that I'd usually expect you to take 20 rather than 10. Appraise, once again, isn't usually used in a time-crunch environment, and you already called out when discussing Gold Finder that you can succeed on a common DC without rolling. You have one token "I'm trained, really!" rank in Forgery, and even with your very high INT, I don't see you wanting to quickly dash off a forged note in a time-limited situation; if you're trying at all, I think you'd probably take 20, or at least be under sufficient non-stress that you could probably take 10 already. (I guess it makes you slightly more reliable at detecting forgeries, but you didn't call that out as being a particularly meaningful choice.) Now, granted, since Craft is already something you can take 10 on basically all the time, those are pretty much the majority of your skills that you have ranks in at all, but the fact remains, I'm not sure that you're really getting a ton of benefit out of the feature. Honestly, if you'd even thrown ranks into Concentration, you could potentially argue that you might occasionally be using some of the longer-activation skills in stressful situations now and again, but that doesn't seem to be on the table today.

You don't actually gain a single bit of benefit from HS's skill list. You never take a single rank in a skill that's in-class for HS but that isn't in-class for Artificer, and you often do the opposite. You aren't the only chef with this kind of issue, but it seems especially bad on you, given that there are a handful of potentially useful skills that HS gets but Artificer doesn't, and you don't have any way of mitigating the cost of cross-class skills the way many of your fellow Hoardstealers do.

And that leaves the spells. You tie up one of your highest slots with Dimensional Jaunt, but DJ is a good utility feat, and I honestly didn't expect anyone to use HS spells to power a reserve feat, so that's something, I suppose. (We may need to gloss over the fact that Shape Soulmeld: Blink Shirt exists; it has lower range, but it doesn't tie up your highest level spell slot and is available much earlier on for nearly the same effect.) More meaningfully, you use Wand Bonding to get off-list utility from the slots (maybe even with SSI?), which is pretty nice. You actually tell me how a few of the specific spells HS gets are useful to you (even mentioning at least one spell from each level!), which is, sadly, more than I can say for some of your competitors, so that looks good on you.

I will say that among the competitors who include T1 casting or some equivalent in the build, you're in the upper half when it comes to integrating Hoardstealer with your powerful baseline. There's still a disconnect between the HS part of the build and the Artificer part of the build (I mean, I don't think anyone is even pretending that the build wouldn't be stronger with more Artificer and less non-Artificer, right?), and removing HS from the build doesn't cause it to collapse or to have to radically reinvent itself. You've found an acceptable trick or two that lets you partner up with HS, but you aren't relying on it as fully as some of your competitors. It's definitely not pure dead weight, but you aren't getting any particularly unique benefit out of it. We'll stick you in the middle and call it a 3. You'd have gotten more points if you'd taken more advantage of HS's skill base (and Skill Mastery) and if you'd have made a stronger argument that your main takeaways from HS couldn't really be easily done in another way.

Final Thoughts:

I liked an awful lot about this build. I really didn't see any of it coming, and you have a fairly remarkable power baseline. It still didn't need Hoardstealer, but it's definitely a tidy piece of optimization. Well done.

Paityr: 7.5

I may or may not be stealing a couple of your fluff elements (like a thief who uses their loot to buy books because the thought of stealing books is anathema to them, and also the part about a necromancer naming all of their undead minions the same name) wholesale for future characters of my own. Those were clever!

Originality: 2

Okay, so, you know how I said in my criteria that it's fine to use known optimization tricks if you make them interesting and clarify what makes your character different? I'm not seeing that second part. I guess I wasn't expecting Uncanny Trickster advancing Dread Necro? I'm not 100% sure why that's in the build at all, mind you, but I wasn't expecting it. (The fact that you appear to have met the skill requirements for the SI before actually going into Uncanny Trickster just adds to the confusion.)

But really, the elephant in the room (not the last time this phrase will appear in this judgment) is the fact that this is just a Rainbow Deathsnake. It's a very Rainbow Deathsnake build (yeah, that's an adjective now). There are very few other flourishes to the build aside from the SI getting bolted to the back end for some reason, and those flourishes were not sufficiently explained to make me think of this as a particularly interesting or unique early entry Rainbow Deathsnake.

I admit that I didn't expect anyone to lunge for, y'know, Dread Necro in a Hoardstealer build. Or Rainbow Servant, for that matter. So I guess that's a mark in your favor. Call it a 2? That seems like a 2. It's an old op trick that I didn't expect in this specific context, but it's still an old op trick with no new spin put on it, and it wasn't meaningfully integrated into the whole.

Power: 3.5

So your early game is almost entirely a full caster. A full caster with early entry cheese, for that matter. And eventually DMM Persist, even. I'm fine with an almost-full-caster taking a skillful class at level 1 just to establish some baseline skills, and then you're basically all spells all the time for almost 13 more levels. That's a mark in your favor. Spells are spells.

Your stats are spread weirdly. That's an awful lot of INT for someone who casts off of CHA and spellstitches off of WIS. In fact, you seem kind of desperate to get more WIS at the end, to the point that you basically admit that you won't have enough without items or other sources of bonuses. It's almost like you were trying to get into a skill-heavy class without a skill-heavy base or something. Hmm. How curious. Your physicals suffer as a result—you're squishy as heck before (and even somewhat after) your undeadification. I mean, -1 CON on d6 and d4 HD? A stray crossbow bolt can kill you early on. (You've got what, an average of 5 + 2.5 + 1.5 + 1.5 = 10.5 HP at level 4? I can forgive low HP at level 1, but that's awfully low for level 4.) To your credit, you do call this out and recognize it, but that doesn't mean that it's not a problem.

Of course, your progression kind of jumps off a cliff at ECL 15. Ending with 6ths (yer table's borked, by the way: DNs don't get 0ths, so it looks like you've got a lower cap than you should) isn't nothing when you've got a million spells spontaneously at your fingertips, but you don't really get any better after that. Why go all the way to 6ths and then stop for 6 levels of an ingredient you ignore? Hoardstealer is actively interfering with your progression.

If we accept that ADW works like you say it does, you've got strong minionmancy, I s'pose. Your lower-level minionmancy is a bit weakened by the lack of actual rebuking power, but you do point out that spells go a long way.

I think this build gets a middling score of about 3.5 in Power. Your raw spellpower bumps you above average, but you'd have earned more if you were less horrifyingly squishy and if you didn't have six levels of actively antisynergistic dead weight sandbagging you at the end of your build. You have an awful lot of very nice spells, but your beginning and your end are fairly terrible.

Elegance: 1

DMM kinda works for you, given that your Cleric spells are cast as divine spells if and only if they don't appear on the Sor/Wiz or Bard spell lists. So I guess that's sort of useful. Not unbridled utility, but it's still DMM Persist.

Your choice to learn Swift Concentration and Magical Appraisal at level 9 is not legal. One skill trick per level (outside of feats and bonus tricks). CSc pg. 82. C'mon, man. This is basic.

Why add the extra hoop of taking Planar Touchstone (a feat with, I will remind you, a bloody quest attached—fluff is generally mutable, but Planar Touchstone is not a feat with trivial fluff prereqs. Oh, and don't forget the expenditure of XP to attune to your touchstone object! And I'd say don't forget the 8 ranks in K: Planes, except you forgot the 8 ranks in K: Planes!) for the Undeath domain to get Extra Turning instead of just freaking taking Extra Turning?! That's the kind of thing Nale would come up with. Sure, your writeup kind of offhandedly mentioned a few other domains you could look at instead of Undeath, but Planar Touchstone isn't a feat that you can change once it's on your sheet. When I'm judging, I only allow wildcards if they're something you can actually swap out, like prepped spells or shaped soulmelds, and not if they're something you can't, like feats. You don't get to make me do the work of picking the best choice for you. I'm going with what's in your table. So yeah. That feat is not only way more complex than it needs to be, but it's also ILLEGAL for the lack of ranks in K: Planes. It's not just a Nale feat, it's an ILLEGAL NALE FEAT. This is gonna cost you.

Okay, elephant in the room time: I'm not fond of early entry (either into Rainbow Servant or into Master Spellthief). I'm not going to call it illegal. It's technically legal. But extraordinary tricks demand extraordinary payoff. And this seems like a fairly generic Rainbow Deathsnake build. This isn't using Rainbow Deathsnake to take you to new and fascinating places. It's kind of just a generic Rainbow Deathsnake. So you brought in cheese to bump up your power, but you didn't really make it interesting. It's just cheese. I forgive cheese if it's interesting cheese, but this is boring cheese.

I could talk about the fact that I don't really agree with your interpretation of Extra Spell, or the fact that you didn't choose your level 18 feat, or the fact that spellstitching yourself is a little questionable (especially without knowing the spell in question), or the fact that your alignment is technically legal but that a GM could be justified in questioning exactly what's going on there, or the fact that your save progression doesn't seem to make ANY sense even if we accept that you're applying your stat mods in addition to your base saves, but I don't think I need to say more than I already have. I think the ILLEGAL NALE FEAT and the cheesy entry without interesting cheesy payoff are enough to decide this build's Elegance score. The rest doesn't help at all.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 1

Sigh. Bro, you told me that your first sweet spot is before you take your first level of the SI. And then you told me that your second sweet spot is when you take your very first level of the SI, but you didn't exactly make an argument that the class features from Hoardstealer 1 (darkvision, trapfinding, and perhaps a single 1st level spell per day) are what kick you into "sweet spot" territory, so I somehow think that this was more a function of hitting ECL 15 rather than Hoardstealer 1. I level this charge at you: you don't care about the Secret Ingredient. You have a super frontloaded almost-full-casting build complete with early entry into Rainbow Servant for Rainbow Deathsnake cheese, which is a reasonable choice if you're gunning for Power, but you have basically zero synergy with Hoardstealer. You even say that "16 to 20 plays out a lot like upper levels." You . . . really don't mention a single thing about Hoardstealer in your writeup during the level range at which you have Hoardstealer levels (half-heartedly name-dropping your divining ability does not impress me). I'm sorry, but this is clearly a non-Hoardstealer build that tacks on 6 levels of Hoardstealer at the very end simply because it's the SI. I guess I can see a tiny bit of token effort put in with Master Spellthief, but that doesn't change the fact that this is clearly just Hoardstealer stapled on for some reason. You have earned no points. I award you a 1.

Final Thoughts: I don't know why this build is in Hoardstealer. I might—might—have been more open to it if you were going for a "hordestealer" joke, plundering dragon graveyards and stealing minions from dracoliches and stuff, but even then. This build was both trying to do too much (like qualify for Hoardstealer and get high WIS for spellstitching on a CHA-caster chassis) and not trying to do enough (like, you know, making the character unique enough to justify raw cheese).

Master Overmound: 7.75

This build is so aggressively halfling-y that I'm almost surprised you didn't jam Halfling Paragon in there. I mean, this isn't a complaint (Halfling Paragon isn't actually good). Just an observation.

Originality: 2.25

Um, you're pretty much just a basic halfling Rogue with some Whisperknife in there. And Hoardstealer for some undefined reason. Swordsage is used acceptably well, but it's about the exact opposite of novel or surprising; you are in no way weaker (or even less Original) for it, but you're definitely not more Original for it. Luckstealer is potentially neat, but it feels like an afterthought and doesn't feel meaningful in this build. No new tricks, no new spins on old tricks, no integration of disparate parts into a cohesive whole.

I'm going to rate this as around a 2.25. I'm not going lower than that because I'd rather see a simple baseline build like this than a build that clumsily tries to bring in some old optimization combo but does it poorly and doesn't own anything about it, but you'd have scored higher if there were anything in here that didn't feel generic.

Power: 2.5

Penetrating Strike is weird on a halfling Rogue taking the halfling racial sub levels to be better at ranged SA than at melee SA. I mean, it's still probably more useful than Trap Sense (close to something-for-nothing, so that's good for you), but still, don't you agree that it's a little odd? You do presumably bother with melee attacks, so don't think that I don't see that, but I still find it odd.

Luckstealer without any luck feats makes me sad. I understand that the majority of your feats were spent getting into Whisperknife (is that ever a feat-greedy class or what?!), but that still seems like a heck of a missed opportunity.

Speaking of Whisperknife, just how much return on investment do you get for those feats? Sure, you probably would have taken at least Weapon Finesse (maybe even one or more of the others) alone, but even so, that's a lot of feat investment. You honestly talk a lot more about qualifying for Whisperknife than you do about actually using Whisperknife. The only mention I can really see about actually using Whisperknife's abilities is an oblique reference to it letting you function both in and out of melee. You've left it up to me to determine why you care about the class, I suppose, so I guess I need to assess that for you. Rapid Shot is acceptable but it's kind of just a refund on feats you had to spend. IUD is acceptable, though it is passive. Defensive Throw isn't terrible, though it's kind of optimizing for losing (it's rare for you to both want to throw things and to be able to get SA, since a flat-footed target or one that can't see you is vulnerable to SA, and you can't flank at range). Still, covering your bases is okay. Improved Catch is weird and situational (and it precludes a full attack), so I'm not impressed. Close Attack is, at best, +2 AC; is that all? SA is SA, though that's still kinda expensive SA. It's not the worst class you could have taken (the BAB, if nothing else, matters a little bit), but I'm not convinced that you need it so much that it's worth tying up the majority of your feats for it. I think I could potentially have been convinced with a more in-depth write-up, but I didn't get that.

Darkstalker comes online at ECL 18. A guard dog (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dog.htm) (whose Scent ability pierces your Hide/MS attempt) is CR 1/3. You have failed to present me with a successfully stealthy character. You attempted to be stealthy, but you paid your taxes far too late, so much of your investment (what's up with that mismatch between Hide/MS, anyway?) is significantly less useful than it should be for the amount of build currency you spend on it. I honestly wouldn't have even said anything at ECL 6 or maybe even ECL 9 (I would have had some comments at 9, but 6 woulda been fine), but this is too little, too late.

8 CON is pretty painful. You've spread yourself hella thin. I mean, I understand that you've got some kind of ability that relies on each of your three mental stats, you're obviously DEX-primary, and you've got a racial penalty to STR, but still, voluntarily accepting fewer HP? That's a cost I'm not usually happy to pay.

Let's try to find a few bright spots. You have fairly meaningful SA, though your table is hard to read and hard to figure out exactly how much you have. Are you actually combining TWF and Rapid Shot with thrown weapons? If so, that's a fair number of attacks; something like 3 for BAB 15 (see Elegance), +1 for TWF, +1 for Rapid Shot? I've seen worse. You do at least pay a modicum of attention to your offensive power. Ranged SA is hard to get off reliably, but I guess at least Cloak of Deception lets it work once per encounter most of the time. Your maneuvers are mostly chosen well, though Flesh Ripper is a real head-scratcher (you have a penalty to STR! It's a DC 12 saving throw, and it does nothing but a single attack's worth of damage if they—when they—succeed on their saving throw! Why not Soaring Raptor Strike or Death Mark or even the good old usable-out-of-combat Mountain Hammer?).

You get no credit for your stealth, but you have reasonable mobility skills, Appraise, and dungeon manipulation. Even slightly more than a token investment in Spot/Listen. You pay dearly for a lot of those skills, but your skills are overall not bad.

I've said about as many words as you did by now, so I should probably just give you a number and be done. I'm going to call this about 2.5. You're close enough to a vanilla Rogue (with a sprinkle of Swordsage) that I accept that you've got some basic usefulness, and you probably pack a little more punch on a full round of SA (when such a thing is possible) than some of your competitors do, but you'd have scored higher without the nearly-wasted points in stealth, the bizarrely poor choice of Flesh Ripper, the godawful CON, or the odd feat structure. You'd also have scored higher if you had enough ability to actually benefit from Luckstealer's abilities that it justified the cost of investment.

Elegance: 1.5

Okay, bro, this thing with your skills? You know, that thing where you list all of your total ranks (current and prior) at every level on the table but then you don't make it super easy to see which skills increased from level X to level X +1? That's literally exactly what I told you not to do. This is extremely obnoxious to read and makes it really hard to check your legality. If you want an example of how to do it better, look at literally any other build in this current round. There are all kinds of ways to do this right.

Hae Wyre highlights updated skills in red.
Splash Gordon goes above and beyond by both highlighting updated skills in boldface and by spelling out how many points are being spent on each skill. (Best in show in this department, Gordon! Keep doing what you're doing!)
Buckethead only lists updated skills and also spells out how many points are being spent on each one.
Paulie Pocket's choice to only list updated skills without spelling out points spent (except for cross-class ranks) is less good than what Buckethead does, but it's still acceptably easy to read. It's the bare minimum of acceptability, but it does, in fact, pass muster.
Shellie Caleesye would be better by highlighting the updated skills in some way, but at least they tell me how many skill points are being spent on each skill at each level.
Mellon, like Paulie Pocket, doesn't list skills that aren't being updated.
The Professor is like Buckethead, listing only updated skills and telling me how much each one went up.
Paityr highlights updated skills in boldface.
Ser Iaijutsu also highlights updated skills in boldface.
Gunnar von Sacher, like Buckethead and The Professor, only lists updated skills and tells me how big each increase is.
Tag Baggit subscribes to the same school as Paityr and Ser Iaijutsu, highlighting updated skills in boldface.

You, and only you, do nothing to tell me which of your skills are changing and which of your skills aren't changing. Your skills are uniquely awful to read. Can you see how much harder your skills are to read than everyone else's? Really? I know that making a skill table is miserable toil. I'm not being patronizing or sarcastic here. It is, hands down, my least favorite part of putting together a build. It truly sucks, especially if you change anything at all about your level order or about which skills you take when. But I feel like I'm playing nineteen separate games of spot-the-six-differences looking at your build table. That makes it hard to keep in my head which skills are and aren't class skills for your current class, adding to the complexity of my task. I don't care which stats go with which skills. I know that Escape Artist requires DEX and Climb requires STR. If you're putting in parenthetical text, I say use that parenthetical text to tell me how many points on each skill this level! Putting every skill on a separate line is a baby step in the right direction, but it's really, truly, genuinely not enough on its own.

I think I can be done ranting now, but this is definitely not going to help your score. This is one of the only two formatting sins that could directly affect your score this time around (the other one being failure to cite sources), but I truly did warn you about this. I said in black and white that this is wrong and I don't want you to do it. What kind of judge would I be if I were to ignore that warning the way you did? Exactly.

I work for an insurer. When we can't verify some aspect of the risk an insured is presenting to us (if we have no proof of prior coverage, for example, or if there's a loss in the household and they refuse to respond to our requests for information about the previously undisclosed driver involved), we tend to assume the worst. I'm sorely tempted to just assume that you've got a few random illegal skill points somewhere in that nightmare of a skill table. I'm not going to assume that you're illegal from start to finish, but I can't read your table well enough to prove that you're aboveboard. Considering that I specifically told you to not do this, I'm just going to count it against you.

Your BAB is not 16. I'm not sure exactly at which level you increment it when you shouldn't (the fact that you didn't include which level of each class you were taking at each character level interfered there; not classy on an already challenging table, my friend), but 4 levels of Rogue gives +3, 2 levels of Swordsage gives +1 (4), 8 levels of Hoardstealer gives +6 (10), 1 level of Luckstealer gives 0 (still 10), and 5 levels of Whisperknife gives +5 (15). Fifteen is not sixteen. You do not, in fact, get your fourth attack. So not only are you illegal in your table somewhere, you're also claiming a nontrivial benefit that you didn't earn. The difference between claiming +15 when you've earned +14 and claiming +16 when you've earned +15 is actually fairly major, for reasons that should be obvious. This doesn't look good on you. Not one bit.

Luckstealer kind of comes out of nowhere, to be honest. I appreciate using the SI's minor casting ability to qualify for a new class, but you only take one level in it (your save DC is all of what, 13? At ECL 16+? A Fighter with 10 WIS and no items beats that 65% of the time. Do you often fight Fighters with 10 WIS and no items at ECL 16+? That failure rate is some 5e BS right there. It's like you're playing 5e, but unfortunately, your enemies are not) and barely mention why it's cool for you. I like the thematics of the class, but I didn't see you actually bringing enough of the class's abilities to bear to actually have those thematics show up in a game. It would honestly be fairly easy to miss that you even have that class, so I don't think of that level as being very elegant.

I'm not impressed with anything you did regarding prereqs. You have three different PrCs, and other than a racial prereq, the only prereq overlap you have is a few ranks in Hide and MS. Not nothing, but only barely. This isn't a direct penalty or anything, but I don't see you going out of your way to deserve a bonus.

Your feats are, at a minimum, legal, and so are your PrCs.

I'm going to call this about a 1.5. You flagrantly flouted my instructions about your skill table, you tried to claim a bonus you didn't earn, your Luckstealer level is kind of out of left field, and you have very little making you actually look better aside from reasonably judiciously timed Swordsage levels, which you did do fairly well. You'd have scored higher if, well, the problems that I'm complaining about weren't in place.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 1.5

You carefully trade away Trapfinding in order to pick it up with HS, but you actually do have a reasonable score both in Search and in Disable, so I'll give you a little credit for caring about trappiness. You don't mention Trap Sense much, but it's passive and hard to show off.

You indicate that Skill Mastery is your "capstone," which is not unwarranted. You know what you didn't indicate? What skills you're choosing. So that's not much evidence in favor of you caring all that much.

You basically don't mention Hoardstealer's abilities much at all. The class's actual features are entirely absent from your 6-18 bracket. You mention that the darkvision and the spells exist, but you don't tell me why you care about any of them. I have no clue which spells you're prepping regularly or why those spells make you more awesome. You don't even mention Deep Pockets or Treasure Dowsing, and we won't bother with Hide from Dragons.

So would this build make more sense without Hoardstealer? I think it would. You'd have more room for Rogue, Swordsage, and/or Whisperknife, all of which you clearly care about more than Hoardstealer. You technically wouldn't qualify for Luckstealer, but since you don't really get any meaningful use out of Luckstealer, I'm not counting that as a major loss. Hoardstealer does very little for you, and you make no effort to optimize what it offers aside from technically using the spells to qualify for something you barely use.

I'm awarding you a 1.5. You avoid a rock-bottom score because you do in fact use the spells to qualify for something and because you keep paying at least moderate attention to the prereq skills, but you'd have scored much, much higher if you had actually told me why you care about, like, any of the features.

Final Thoughts:

This build basically just disobeyed my guidelines right and left. You made your skills impossible to read, and more importantly, you didn't spell out for me why you care about most of the choices you made. Your basic concept ("Rogue") is clear enough that I didn't have to deploy The Line on you, but I still feel like the build has all the depth of a cardboard cutout. I apologize for being harsh, but every time I tried to come up with something nice to say, I noticed something standing in the way of me being as nice as I wanted to be.

Zaq

2018-07-21, 08:33 PM

Part four.

Ser Iaijutsu Tonneu de Chartres: 12

Originality: 4

I've never seen Celestial-Attended Birth used before, so that was neat! I like learning new tricks like that. The rest of the build did use some well-known bits and pieces of optimization lore, but I think that you knew that already (on the shoulders of giants, right?), and this didn't feel totally cookie-cutter, so that's nice. I didn't see anything coming together in a new and unusually harmonious way, but it didn't just feel like I'd seen this movie a hundred times before, so that's a good feeling. Even if, as you'll see in Power, I don't think you pulled off everything you were trying to do, the fact that you were indeed trying to do a handful of things that don't automatically flow out of Hoardstealer is a good thing, and if we gloss over the RAW quibbles I'm going to discuss in Power (One Mistake, One Penalty), the whole does feel greater than the sum of the parts. This has earned about a 4.

Power: 2

I'm seeing a lot of tricks that rely upon limited resources. Polymorphing into an arrow demon is clever (but see below). It's a lot of resources expended for something that, from your build table, seems to work about twice per day, but it's clever.

I'm a little bit less than thrilled with your ability to make things flat-footed. Unfortunately, denying DEX is not quite the same thing as being flat-footed. A target that can't see you but that has taken their first action in a given combat is denied DEX but is not flat-footed (absent a separate effect forcing flat-footedness on them, like forcing them to balance without 5 ranks in Balance or using Surprising Riposte on them). This means that Iaijutsu won't work as often as you seem to think it will, and neither will Hit-and-Run Tactics. Or Oxyrhynicus ("just accept that you don't have a word and pass your turn, Bruce." "Never! I WILL get that triple word score!"), for that matter. They'll all work beautifully on round 1 if you win initiative (so I hope that you're scout-tastic enough to pre-buff with Polymorph before engaging; this will often be true based on your write-up, but it won't always be true), but I'm not very convinced that they'll work after round 1. Oxyrhynicus ("if you suffer from moderate to severe mephitic ocular ryoma (http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=431), talk to your doctor about Oxyrhynicus") is loosely worded enough (though I will point out that i.e. is significantly more restrictive than e.g., and no, they are not the same bloody thing) that you might be able to make an argument that it works on denying DEX and not just on flat-footedness, but don't bother disputing on that front; the loss of Iaijutsu and Hit-and-Run Tactics is big enough that arguing against the loss of Oxyrhynicus ("O. oxyrhynicus, being one of the shortest-lived but fastest-breeding members of the genus, was used in lab testing until Patient Zero broke free") won't really change my overall score here.

Let's look at sort of a best-case scenario. You've got Darkstalker, decent stealth, and eventually a few tricks—like long darkvision and the actual Invisibility spell—that do offer some indication that you might sneak up on things now and again. (Lack of major investment in Spot/Listen is a minor mark against you here, but there's no such thing as enough skill points. I get it.) If that happens, you'll get a surprise round. You'll get one attack with IF and HaRT in that surprise round —more at 15th and then more again at 18th with Oxyrhynicus ("Iä! Iä! Oxyrhynicus! The Cyclopean Pyramid In The Cursed Desert Who Spawned A Thousand Optimizers!") if all goes well—that's going to be meaningful, but it's not likely to end the battle against something level-appropriate. You'll then roll init; you've got about a +5 to your init score altogether, which is reasonable but not enough by a long shot to guarantee that you'll go first. If you do manage to go first, you'll get basically a repeat of your surprise round. After that, though, your only real source of bonus damage is KD. KD is okay, but I feel like any time you've got to attack something that's already acted, you're going to be a bit disappointed.

I'm torn about choosing Far Shot over Precise Shot. I personally think that Precise Shot is an obnoxious feat tax that nonetheless must be paid. Eating a -4 on basically every round after your melee guys (let's be honest, it's a rare party that has zero melee capability, even if it's just summons and/or pets) close the distance is, well, dumb. So I basically think of any ranged-primary build without PS as being the equivalent of waving around a nonproficient weapon unless you get lucky. (This just amplifies the "round 1 is awesome, round 2 is disappointing" problem I've outlined here.) On the other hand, I do understand that you're trying to stay out of the range of your targets, so Far Shot isn't worthless. 'Course, the range increment on a longbow is 100', so if you're trying to rely on your darkvision, it's ECL 10 before you even have the chance to hit the second range increment on a non-Far-Shot longbow, and I don't know about you, but I feel like it's not exactly a guarantee that you'll often be fighting things at a distance within the weirdly specific range of more than 100' away but less than 120' away. I think Far Shot may not have been the best choice here.

Ugh, I just noticed something really bad. Polymorph, I am sad to say, is not a legal choice for your Spell Knowledge. It's a 4th level spell, and Wyrm Wizard specifies that you need to learn a spell up to one level lower than the highest level arcane spell you can prepare and cast (and you cap out at 4th level spells). This is a big, big problem for you. (Don't bother going dumpster-diving for a weird list that has Polymorph as a 3rd level spell; the time to do that was before the judgment, and you didn't tell me in your build write-up that you were going dumpster-diving at all.) Honestly, that's kind of killer for you, given that it informed an awful lot of your build choices and seems to be the centerpiece of your high-level strategy. I don't think your Polymorph tricks are legal at all because I don't think you have access to Polymorph. That kind of torpedoes a lot of your high-level power, or at least the biggest increase in power you purport to have late in the game. (Greater Manyshot is still a good trick but still only really works on round 1; same with Oxyrhynicus ["Breaking news: Florida man found dead after combatants in illegal koala-fighting ring turned on him; the autopsy revealed traces of the new synthetic drug 'Oxyrhynicus' in his system"].) So I basically can't give you any points for using Polymorph.

You use Knowledge Devotion reasonably well. The biggest bonuses do wait a while to come online, but it works. I feel like you didn't remember that Collector of Stories only works 1/enc, but that's small enough that I'm not going to directly penalize for it.

I'm a little surprised you didn't trade out Wild Empathy for anything, since it's kind of worthless with just two levels in Ranger and a +1 CHA backing it up. My go-to is CChamp's Spiritual Connection. A minor loss, I suppose. Similarly, because you didn't use Track for anything and only put 4 ranks in Survival, I wonder if it would have been possible to have traded that out as well? To be fair, most of the things that I know offhand that you can trade Track for require investment in other skills (like Gather Info or Search/Disable), so maybe that was a lost cause. (The 4 ranks in Survival are a tiny bit confusing, though. It might have been more interesting to pay a little more attention to them or else to just state flat out that Track isn't why you started with Ranger.)

You have a smattering of skills, but most of them other than pure stealth seem to be related to solving problems in combat rather than contributing utility out of combat. Knowledges do go a reasonably long way and it is indeed useful to have a Knowledge-monkey in the party (thus says The Truenamer Guy), but you're not the craziest Knowledge-monkey I've ever seen, and I think the expected baseline here (i.e., what would a "normal" Hoardstealer with a Ranger/Human Paragon base have as a skillset?) is probably a little bit broader than what you've got here.

Overall, I think that you've got an interesting premise, but the devil is in the details, and the details really don't work in your favor. I don't see an easy fix that would allow your IF or HaRT to work more than once per encounter most of the time, leaving you with pretty much just KD as a source of damage. That isn't much, especially with the loss of Polymorph. That's not something we can easily and reliably fix with tactics or items or anything, so I don't think we can really salvage what you've got written here. Since the majority of your build seems to be tied up in making your iaijutsu archery (and your archery in general) work, I don't think I can give you a very good Power. This seems like about a 2 at best. You'd have scored higher if you had a way to make things actually flat-footed and if your use of Wyrm Wizard to get Polymorph were legal. (Taking Precise Shot instead of Far Shot might not have changed the actual score alone but might have contributed if you had a few other little improvements as well.)

Elegance: 3

Basic legality check: You don't have 5 ranks in any Knowledge skill when you take Collector of Stories. You seem to have an error in your table at ECL 9 when it comes to your ranks in K: Arcana, K: Planes, and K: Religion, but if we assume that you put one point into each of those skills at that level, the math checks out on your skill points; however, if that's true, you then underspent at 10th. Or maybe at 11th. There's an error somewhere, but at least it seems to be underspending rather than overspending. Neither is good, but overspending is much worse. You then seem to only spend 6 points at 12th and 13th, but then you spend the normal 8 at 14th. At 15th, you highlight K: Planes and K: Religion like you spent points there, but the number doesn't change, and it can't change or else 16th gets weird. This happens again at 19th and again at 20th. So as far as your skill points go, you seem to have underspent several times over. (Let me guess: you changed your class order at the last minute after you'd already built one [choice term deleted] table, right?) I'm very happy that you never overspent, but underspending is still not ideal. And of course your skill trick is mistimed.

Still on the legality check but inserting a line break for legibility's sake: Knowledge Devotion also requires 5 ranks in a Knowledge skill, so you've actually got two illegal choices at 6th that happen to be illegal for the exact same reason. That's kind of fascinating. But it's not good. You don't explicitly say that you have Draconic as a language, but your INT is decent enough that I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Other than Collector of Stories and Knowledge Devotion, you do meet all your prereqs, but those two illegal choices are not going to reflect well on you.

Moving on from basic legality. So, you needed human for Able Learner (to fix Hoardstealer's weird skills and deal with the obnoxious prereqs) and Human Paragon (for IF and a few others as class skills) but wanted to be an outsider for Polymorph shenanigans, so you used an obscure "background" option to allow you to take Otherworldly? That's . . . that's actually brilliant and I love it. That's the sort of thing I love to see on a build like this. It might have been a tiny bit more interesting if you didn't get martial weapon proficiency from your class structure, thereby having the outsider type give you a little more than just darkvision in the early game, but still, I love seeing a large number of interrelated choices that all really matter. Good job.

The sudden revival of interest in Spot at level 19 is a bit of a skill cowlick, but I suppose it's never bad to have Spot around.

The distance between Manyshot (which, let's face it, kind of bites) and Greater Manyshot is longer than ideal, but I understand that you needed other stuff. Still, it would have been nice to see GMS earlier. Other than that, though, the only prereq feat you have lying around for very long is PBS, and that's kind of a gimme on anything even vaguely related to ranged attacks.

You wring some good mileage out of Human Paragon. Each of the three levels has a very distinct purpose in the build at the time that they are taken, which is a good thing to see. Thumbs up for that.

Overall, I want to score this build pretty well in Elegance (I love that racial choice and I love the extremely careful judicious timing on your Human Paragon levels), but the unforced errors with illegally taking Knowledge Devotion and Collector of Stories are holding you back. I'll call this a 3. It would have been higher with cleaner skills and with no illegal choices.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 3

Hacking an extra spell onto a tiny spell list is a reasonably good use of slots from a PrC with unique casting. The fact that your chosen spell happens to be illegal was addressed in Power, and in the interest of One Mistake, One Penalty, I'm going to give you credit in UoSI for trying and won't penalize you just because you never actually get Polymorph. The only lower-level spell you mention at all is (quickened) Invisibility, so I would have liked to have seen the class's spells play a role in your write-up before Wyrm Wizard comes online, but at least what you seem to think is the centerpiece of the build is directly related to the spells. You do spend a reasonable amount of effort trying to get Polymorph to work, at least, which speaks well of how important it is to you.

You fail to do anything interesting with Deep Pockets, which is one of the only unique abilities that the class gets, and that makes me very sad.

You talk about darkvision enough that I'll accept that you care about it. Hide from Dragons at least got a throwaway mention; I understand that it's situational, but it would be nice to see a bit more attention paid to it. Basically no one really did that properly, though, so this isn't unique to you. It's basically impossible to optimize that one in a vacuum.

You make reasonable use of Skill Mastery. Taking the last level of Human Paragon right before Hoardstealer 8 is a nice touch, even if it did delay you a bit. All of the skills you pick are combat skills for you, so you do seem to be using Skill Mastery in an effort to boost your effectiveness at fighting. (How meaningful that is at ECL 18+ is another matter, but it's something.)

You ignore the trap-related class features. You ignore Treasure Dowsing, which is another semi-unique (if frustratingly hard to use) feature.

I'm not directly penalizing for this, but I do find it humorous that at the majority of your levels in Hoardstealer, you don't take a single skill that is a class skill for Hoardstealer.

What you really seem to care about seems to be 4th level spell slots (which come online at around ECL 12, though never many times per day), the occasional 2nd level spell slot, maybe some darkvision, and (at ECL 18+, which is awfully high) Skill Mastery. That's more than can be said for a few of your fellow chefs, but since the features that you care about are mostly very high-level and relatively limited and since you don't really mention any of the unique abilities offered by the class, I'm not absolutely convinced that this build needs Hoardstealer. I can see the effort you put into getting Polymorph to do what you want, though, so I'll give you a 3 for trying. You'd have scored better if you used Deep Pockets in a meaningful way, if you paid more attention to your lower-level spells, and if you got more use out of the SI's abilities prior to the endgame.

Final Thoughts:

I love the Isaac Newton references. I don't quite get exactly why they're entirely relevant to the build (unless you're nodding to the fact that Arrow Demon is kind of a well-trodden path for a Polymorph target?), but I respect that source material there. As for the build itself, I feel like this was mostly a case where you successfully found a way that it didn’t work. You had some neat ideas, but the devil was in the details (and the arrow demon wasn't).

Gunnar von Sacher: 9.75

I'm fairly certain that punching someone in the butt cheek to paralyze them requires being a ninja (or a doctor), and you're very clearly a pirate. Such is life.

Originality: 3.5

Okay, I didn't know that Thayan Slaver even existed, so, y'know, credit there!

Incarnate makes sense in the context of a skill-heavy class; no penalty, but it's not really surprising. Don't see Dragon Tail every day, I suppose.

I absolutely love your take on the "hoard worth 5,000 gp or more." That's clever as hell. Doesn't have as big an effect on the build as the real crunchy stuff, but it's still clever as hell. Also super dark, but you're an Evil Incarnate, so dark is appropriate. Thumbs up.

I think we'll go a little north of average and call this a 3.5. You brought in at least one game element that was new to me and made me laugh at a semi-fluff way of meeting a prereq, but I'm not seeing any really remarkable new combos or spellbinding twists on old combos. I see old combos used pretty well and pretty appropriately, but as I said, no real twists and no overall sense that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Power: 2

Hmm. Reasonably acceptable early game, especially around level 3 or so. Human Paragon, as you say, is a class for the long game, but Incarnate is a beast early on.

Long-term, Thayan Slaver is weird and fascinating. I love tacking rider effects onto skill checks and similar rolls. Wish you'd mentioned Duel of Wills as a way to get a potential Intimidate check on the field without spending an action. Still, what you do have is pretty neat. It'd be neater earlier on, but here we are.

You've got pretty impressive skills. You seem pretty deliberate with what you're doing, and it comes off as less of a mishmash than some of your competitors. So that's good. Your ability to actually damage things or otherwise remove them from combat is, shall we say, secondary at best (not to say tertiary), but it's not ignored outright. 3d6 SA, I suppose, isn't nothing. It's not a game-breaker (or even terribly impressive) by ECL 16, but it at least means that you aren't building a pure noncombatant, which is more than some other Hoardstealers can say. There's definitely a donut hole between around ECL 3 and around ECL 12 or so where you don't really get much better at hitting folks, but Hoardstealer isn't intended to be Eternal Blade, I guess. Master Pickpocket is potentially useful to let you harass people even if you aren't reducing their HP totals by much. (We can't go all the way with the cheesy RAW that failure on a Sleight of Hand check only means that you are detected and not that you fail to grab what you wanted to grab and therefore an arbitrarily large number of free actions can be used to strip someone naked in a single round, rolls be damned. We're just not going there. I'm going to assume that you at least have to succeed on the check. Master Pickpocket is still very useful, though.)

You went pretty far out of your way to not use Rogue. Like, that's an awful lot of effort you went to there. You got your skill list from Human Paragon (which notably offers significantly fewer skill points than Rogue would), and tellingly, you didn't take any skills from HP that Rogue doesn't offer. You spend at least two feats getting enough Sneak Attack to qualify for Thayan Slaver, which more than cancels out the bonus feat that level 2 of Human Paragon gives you. Taking 3 levels of Rogue early on in place of 3 levels of Human Paragon would have gotten you more early skill points and one extra feat, and it would have made the early levels more level-appropriate (2d6 SA is far more meaningful around ECL 5 than around ECL 12) and less focused only on setting up, while really only losing 2 INT. 2 INT isn't nothing on so skill-heavy a character, but I'm not sure that you've necessarily come out ahead here. I understand that not all skill points are equal and that timing does matter, but you lost 24 skill points by taking HP instead of Rogue, and you gained 15 skill points from the INT bump that HP offered, so that's a net loss of 9 skill points in addition to the feat and the early-game offense. Your early game would have been a lot stronger, and you probably could have entered Thayan Slaver (which, when we're judging Power, does a lot more for you than Hoardstealer ever does) much earlier. I can understand feeling resistance to the idea of entering the SI (or Thayan Slaver, for that matter) the way WotC expected the SI to be entered, but still, that's an awful lot of build resources spent taking the roundabout path without really gaining anything unique out of it. It'd be different if you needed an unusually timed bonus feat after you met some odd prereqs, if you nabbed some unusual skills with HP that Rogue wouldn't have given you, or if the INT bump would have specifically let you qualify for something you otherwise wouldn't have (INT is inherently useful, especially on this class structure, but this specific character doesn't suddenly become able to cast spells they otherwise couldn't or anything like that), but none of that is on display today. I don't think this improved your overall Power. Sometimes the road less traveled is less traveled for a reason.

I'm going to trust my heart and call this a 2. You have an acceptable skill baseline, you get some sideways utility from Master Pickpocket, and you have at least a little bit of interesting utility from Slaver, but you don't come together as much of a cohesive whole, and you have relatively low "standard" offense. You'd have scored higher with a tighter focus, with a little more early combat oomph, and with a better explanation of how Hoardstealer levels make you stronger.

Elegance: 2.25

Technically silverbrow human is in DrM rather than RotD, but I don't feel like being picky about that.

Basic legality check: (I love judging builds with Able Learner. Makes the skill check so much easier.) You seem to have underspent your skill points at level 12. Heartbreakingly, you overspend by one single point at level 17, and you seem to overspend by 2 points at level 20. Your feats and classes are legal. Sad to see you stumble at the very end with those skills.

Your ranks in Forgery don't line up with how many points you spend. At level 17, I'm pretty sure that it would take more than 1 point to go from 16 to 20. Since 17 is one of the levels where you overspend anyway, it's obvious that something got pretty darn messed up there.

I didn't check every single level, but I'm pretty sure that you shortchanged yourself out of at least one point of BAB during your stint as a Thayan Slaver. No normal class (something something War Hulk Survivor something) fails to advance BAB for 3 levels in a row. Better to shortchange yourself than to claim a benefit you don't deserve, but neither is ideal.

You seem to have forgotten to put in a spell table for Hoardstealer, so I had to do a bit more legwork on my end to figure out when you get access to various spell levels. To the extent that you care, at least.

You're smart enough to know better than to waste a Skill Mastery slot on UMD. It's not stress or distraction that prevents you from taking 10; it's a clause in the skill itself. It's legal to pick, but it doesn't really do anything. A minor detail considering how late SM comes online (and your other choices are entirely respectable), but worth mentioning.

You're really excited about binging on skill points. Like, really excited about it. You have two levels where you don't spend at least 4 points on a given skill, and zero levels where you don't spend at least 3. That's actually pretty impressive, honestly. You almost made it into a motif. I don't really know how to approach this. Like, ordinarily I'd call this lumpy as hell, but since you stick with it the whole time, it almost loops around and works out. You are, in a very strange way, consistent. And I guess you always have some distinct new toy to play with rather than just minimally incremental improvement over the last level. I think I need to ruminate on this a bit.

Behold this graph of your skill ranks (spoilered for size):
http://rvw.name/images/GunnarVonSacherSkills.png
Lots of peaks and jumps. It's interesting to see how many skills have multiple big binges, too. Perhaps you'd like to see this graph of your skill points (as opposed to ranks)? If we wanted to get fancy, we could technically call it the derivative of the first graph.
http://rvw.name/images/GunnarVonSacherSkillPoints.png
That's just fascinating. Bluff, in particular, really stands out, but the whole thing is pretty wild. You've given me a fair bit to think about, honestly. There's part of me that feels like you ended up going just far enough to loop around. I'm not going to call it a straight lunge for refuge in audacity, but that's kind of the general mindset, given my criteria. I don't think I'm going to count this against you too much, to be honest. Mostly because you went all the way and always gave each level a sharp focus in terms of skill points. The progression is about as uneven as it's possible to get, but looking at it from the perspective of a player taking this character through their career, I like the idea of every level offering something that I'm noticeably better at than the level before it. I don't think I'd get this impression if you just dabbled in your giant lumpy rank investments now and again, but by going all the way, you've altered my perspective a tiny bit, at least in the confines of this specific build. You crazy rascal.

I genuinely do not see the point of having the Dragon Tail feat and the Dragon Tail soulmeld going at once. The soulmeld, to use the technical term, totally blows, since it very carefully makes it impossible to attack with the soulmeld and with anything else short of Snap Kick (which this build does not boast) at the same time. Thankfully, it's a soulmeld, so it's basically totally optional. This is especially good because you mention more melds early on than you have the ability to shape simultaneously (yes, Brass Mane is a freebie; you still name four other melds and can only shape three, to say nothing of your oblique references to the Dissolving Spittle—which you can't use at the same time as the Brass Mane, by the way—and various necrocarnum things beyond the Circlet), so there's that. Yes, the entire point of meldshaping is crazy flexibility, but still, when you call certain melds out by name, why wouldn't I assume that you're prioritizing them? This is a minor quibble overall, though. I'm still just looking at the level 5 bracket, by the way.

Looking a little beyond level 5, you're still kind of Schroedinger's Incarnate. You simply do not have enough melds or enough binds (or enough essentia, though of course essentia is redistributable; kind of messy with the ES and the BM, though) to have the Elder Spirit (which you need to bind to get a bonus to Intimidate) and the Necrocarnum Touch and the Silvertongue Mask and the Theft Gloves (Brass Mane is still a freebie; pay a feat, get the benefit), all of which you seem to assume you have going at once. Relatively few of the skills you care about are ones that are easily separated from your whole deal, so it's not like we can draw an easy dividing line between "uptime" and "downtime," for instance. This problem could have been solved with more discussion about how you decide which to shape when; by giving them all approximately equal weight, I can't tell that you recognize that this isn't all happening at once. Again, flexibility is part and parcel of meldshaping, and this isn't going to completely torpedo you or anything, but it's still hard to tell from your build if you recognize that you've got some limitations here. I'm not 100% sure you do.

I'm not penalizing for this, but I need to mention it: every single time I see a build with Mosquito's Bite, I hope for a fraction of a second that the build will explain to me why that particular skill trick is not merely a waste of points and space. Every single time, I walk away disappointed. When would you ever, ever care about, once per encounter, making an opponent aware that you attacked them but temporarily unaware that you hit? What is the benefit? I have never seen a benefit. If they didn't think you attacked them, that would be one thing, but just delaying for one round when they think you hit is so pointless that I can't get over it. (I truly mean it when I say that I won't penalize, but still, it's confusing.)

I suppose the fact that the skill prereqs for Thayan Slaver have some overlap with the skill prereqs for Hoardstealer is moderately elegant, though it's really only Appraise. A small mark in your favor, but I guess everything adds up.

Your class structure isn't completely nonsensical, but it's not buttery smooth either. HP for skills at level 1 is reasonable, and then 2 levels of Incarnate is reasonable as well, but you aren't using Incarnate 2 as much of a breakpoint so much as just trying to then jam in a certain number of HP levels prior to Hoardstealer. You then grind through Hoardstealer until you qualify for Slaver, which you take as quickly as possible. Crippling Strike isn't a totally nonsensical breakpoint, but I honestly think it might have made more sense to get Skill Mastery immediately after getting Break Will, because I'm not seeing that you've got enough attacks (or enough ability to reliably trigger SA) to really make Crippling Strike meaningful at the level bracket it comes online. You also don't mention a single one of the abilities at HS 9 or 10, so it's not clear why you took them other than because it's the SI. There's no "um, where the hell did this random level of Hexblade come from?" moments or anything, but I'm not seeing this as being remarkable in its elegance.

I'm going to call this about a 2.25. The soulmeld traffic jam and the skill foul-ups around 17 and 20 do you no favors, and you have very little to bump you back up other than technically having a prereq overlap of 8 skill points.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 2

I feel like there's a little bit of, if you'll pardon me, sleight of hand in claiming UMD as a "class feature" when you've got Human Paragon's choose-your-own skill list and Able Learner, but that doesn't mean that you didn't try. Wry smile here.

You mention that Hoardstealer grants spells, but you don't tell me what you do with them or why you care. You didn't even include a table of when you get how many slots per day (you have one for Slaver, but not for HS). These two bits of evidence point to you not really paying a whole ton of attention to your HS spells and therefore probably not getting a whole ton of benefit out of them. You don't even use the arcane keyword (for lack of a better term) to qualify for anything.

You give a glancing mention to darkvision and Hide from Dragons. As situational as each are, I'd have liked to have seen a little bit more of that, at least for darkvision. But situational/passive abilities are situational and passive, so this is far from your greatest problem.

You mention Treasure Dowsing, but I'm not seeing it as a centerpiece of your tricks, and I'm not seeing it used in any particularly novel or interesting ways. I guess the trick you laid out in your story is somewhat interesting? Can't see it coming up that much, but I guess it's something to nod to the class's abilities in your fluff piece.

You mention stuffing slaves into Deep Pockets. The opening to said pocket might be more relevant than the inner storage capacity, but at least you mention it. You can see that some of your competitors went a lot farther with this than you did, though, so I'm not exactly blown away with how it showed up here.

You ignore Trap Sense. Again, far from your greatest problem (huzzah for super situational and totally passive abilities that simply make failing potentially less bad!), but it's not making your case stronger.

Your Skill Mastery choices are reasonable, minus UMD. In particular, since Slaver gives you a new way to use Intimidate (or a new benefit to being good at Intimidate, I suppose), it's more useful on you than on the average Hoardstealer. So that's good.

Overall, I'm not seeing that this build wants to be a Hoardstealer. The build would honestly not suffer in any meaningful way by dropping HS altogether and replacing it with, like, Rogue, or for that matter with any other generic skillful class. Looking at what's actually on your build table (you are, very pointedly, not a character with actual levels in Rogue), you'd technically have fewer skill points if you took more levels in Incarnate instead, but you'd probably be a more robust skill-user overall, given Incarnate's somewhat quirky angle on skills. HS doesn't let you qualify for anything in particular, and you only barely make use of its abilities. The one class feature that seems to actively synergize with the rest of your build is Skill Mastery, and as nice as Skill Mastery is, it comes online at ECL 18, so it matters significantly less than something that could have come online earlier.

I don't think I can give this build more than about a 2, and even that's honestly kind of pushing it. You do enter the SI ASAP and you do eventually take 10 levels, but you still seem to be taking the class out of spite rather than because you've found something cool to do with it. You're not flagrantly interrupting an otherwise powerful progression with Hoardstealer the way some of your competitors are, but that's about all I can say in favor of your UoSI. You'd have scored higher if you told me why the spells matter to you, if you'd really put anything other than Skill Mastery to good use, or if you'd really just focused more on why anything about the class holds any appeal to this character.

Final Thoughts:

God, this build is weird. I really didn't know what to do with it. It's not completely aimless or anything, but it's not always clear what your goal is at any given level, and it's not always clear what resources you're expecting to have on hand to be able to devote to any specific task. It took a couple of neat turns (Thayan Slaver has some fascinating potential), but it also took a couple of head-scratching turns. You seemed to spend more time defining yourself by what you're not than you did really highlighting what you are and the lack of focus kept throwing roadblocks in front of you.

Tag Baggit: 10.5

Originality: 4

Recaster is nothing new and neither is Shivering Touch, but getting both on a Hoardstealer is not something that was exactly guaranteed. I had to go and look up at least three of your feats, which is not something that happens with every build I come across. Changeling Rogue is tired, but I'm trying not to penalize for that because I feel a little guilty about when I did that last time. Shadowcaster, while not a choice that helps you much in Power, is definitely not going to hurt you in Originality; I don't think of it as having any particular connection to Hoardstealer, so it got a raised eyebrow, and that's good. I'm going to call this a 4. You brought in enough unexpected elements that I'm okay with raising this above the midpoint, but you would have scored higher if your tricks had felt more integrated into the whole rather than just picking up tactics from here and there and sticking them together.

Power: 2

Shadowcaster confuses me. It's an unusual choice, so I had really expected to see more explanation of what you're doing with it. You didn't choose especially bad mysteries or anything (though Piercing Sight is a little bit confusing), but I also didn't get an explanation of why the mysteries really make you significantly cooler. (I mean, there's a little bit there, but since it's so out of the ordinary, I was hoping for a little more.) Since you only get each one (plus or minus the fundamentals) once per day, I was expecting to see a description of why this was worth interrupting your skill progression for. Was it just to get Extend Spell as a bonus feat? Pretty sure Wu Jen 1 could have gotten you that for fewer levels lost. I don't see Shadowcaster as letting you qualify for anything in particular, either. It's not completely useless or anything, don't get me wrong, but it's also kind of confusing overall. I guess what I'm getting at is that it's not something with a real strong argument behind it as presented here.

Quick note: You wasted a Skill Mastery slot on UMD. You are technically allowed to pick UMD for Skill Mastery, but it doesn't do anything. The reason you can't take 10 on UMD has nothing to do with stress or distraction—it's because there's a clause in the skill itself specifically preventing taking 10. (It's like Truespeak in that way.) Since you get an acceptable number of other skills chosen for SM, this isn't a major strike against you, but it is indeed a minor strike against you.

Dutiful Guardian is definitely not something I expected. As you indicated, it's not exactly something that seems like it might come up too often. I can see it being amusing if you are, in fact, actually invisible when it comes up, but it's not clear to me from your writeup how often you can actually count on being invisible in combat. Using [non-Greater] Invisibility only lasts until you attack, after all, but if Dutiful Guardian has come up, presumably you've got your party with you and you're actually engaged in some kind of real fight rather than an elaborate chase scene. If you're not attacking, then, what are you doing? I suppose you don't really have any oomph behind your attacks that aren't Shivering Touch, which on the one hand indicates that you might not be attacking, but that really just trades one problem for another. And you don't seem to have access to Greater Invis at all. So I'm not really sure how often it makes sense to assume that you're going to be around being invisible when an ally is being swung at. Even peeking ahead at the script and looking at Evasive Maneuvers, it'll be hard to use both on the same turn because you only get one immediate action.

Side note I just noticed about Constant Guardian: Used properly, it should never penalize you for on-turn attacks. Free actions can be taken at any time during the turn (like, say, after you make whatever attacks you plan to make), and then the penalty only lasts until the start of your turn. I'm not going to say that this necessarily affects this specific build at all (if for no other reason than that you didn't mention it), but it's interesting, don't you think?

Recaster is, I have to say, a pretty dynamite choice. Getting the quintessential dragon-killing spell is already good stuff, but then freely maximizing it and casting it from across the room? That's noticeable even at the level range we're talking about here. I do wish you had a reliable way to punch through SR: your caster level, while not godawful, isn't exactly on par with that of a full caster, and so the SR for level-appropriate dragons is nontrivial for you. Overall, though, I like what Recaster does for you. I do temper my judgment a little bit with the recognition of the fact that Shivering Touch is about the only actual offense you mentioned and with the recognition of the fact that you have remarkably few spell slots with which to shine, but Recaster definitely helps you wring every drop out of the few spells per day you do get. Mass Invisibility is also pretty slick, though Shivering Touch is the real show-stealer, I think.

I didn't see anything in your writeup to convince me that Spell Focus: Illusion makes any dang sense for you. You didn't mention any illusions with saving throws in your write-up, and you don't have many slots per day to cast illusions out of. I don't see it qualifying you for anything. The feat is 15 is a pretty prime slot; it's not so far at the end that it'll absolutely never see use, but you're expected to be able to qualify for pretty much whatever you want by that point, so it's a pretty bad feat slot to blow on something of totally unclear benefit. I don't love that.

Wait, now I see. SF: Illusion qualifies you for Evasive Maneuvers. That's, um, hmm. I'm starting to see why no one bothers with Evasive Maneuvers very often. I'll buy the argument that it can trigger Mass Invis, but that seems like an awful lot of resources to be spending on something that you can't really count on. Especially since Hoardstealer is a prepped caster rather than a spontaneous caster, so you've gotta know ahead of time that you'll want a Mass Invis more than a Shivering Touch (with your puny number of spell slots per day) or whatever. And Mass Invis is actually kind of weird to use off-turn given that your friends, presuming that you target your friends, have to refrain from attacking or else the whole spell breaks for everyone. (It's not useless entirely to have it only last part of a round, but it's still an awfully high cost for unclear benefit.) I guess you can use a normal Invis spell, but this still feels like an awful lot of effort. I still don't love this, and I don't think it speaks well to your Power.

Your skills are mostly respectable on the surface, I suppose. Your CHA is a little low compared to what is normally expected of a Changeling Rogue, but you've got a good reason for it. Waiting to take UMD actually kind of makes sense considering that level 1 characters can rarely afford magic devices to use. Waiting so long to take Concentration is a little bit less logical; I'd say that you don't seem to be wanting to cast in melee too often, but we all know that Concentration isn't for when things go the way you want them to.

Honestly, your skills are mostly notable for what you DON'T have. First, you've got maxed Search but only a token amount of Disable Device. I agree that if you're going to choose one or the other, it's better to find a trap that you have to then cleverly find a way around than it is to be able to disable traps that you can't find, but it still strikes me as an odd choice. You're also pretty stealthy (I'd have loved to have seen HiPS somewhere, but I understand that getting HiPS is sometimes costly), but you don't have enough in the perceptive skills to do as much scouting as one might expect. Your party role is actually a little bit unclear, now that I take a hard look at it. You aren't really a scout; you aren't a full dungeon-monkey with Disable Device and Open Lock and all that weird stuff (yeah, yeah, DD obsoletes OL, but you don't have more than a token amount of either); you've got Social Intuition, but you don't have high CHA and you don't have maxed totals in any of the face skills, leaving your numbers just a little behind the curve (enough that I don't think of you as being a primary face). So, um, what is your role in the party, now that I look at you? It's also worth mentioning that trapfinding is more valuable early on simply because skills have more primacy early on, but I recognize that there's a catch-22 when the SI grants trapfinding.

Overall, you're a semi-handy character with one major ace in the hole when you get Shivering Touch, but you have basically zero offense other than ST, you have enough weird gaps in your skill list that you aren't really any of the traditional stripes of skillmonkey, and you spend an awful lot of feat space building up for tricks that, if they even work at all (which isn't guaranteed), don't work that great until fairly late in the game. You look better on the surface than you do following deep scrutiny. (Which I suppose is slightly thematically appropriate for a Changeling, but that's unlikely to be what you were going for, no?) I think this earns a score of about 2. Not rock-bottom (mostly because Recaster is used really well), but notably below average. You'd have scored higher with more focus on your skills, with more juice per day, or with better basic offense.

Elegance: 1.5

Dutiful Guardian isn't a Fighter bonus feat. Constant Guardian is and that's fine, but Dutiful Guardian isn't. Yes, this is stupid. No, you're still not legal. That's not good. Especially since it doesn't look like we could make you legal but just rearranging the order of things. No bueno.

Legality baseline: Your skills appear to be legal (I love Able Learner). You appear to meet all of your prereqs. I don't see too many questionable rules interpretations. So Dutiful Guardian seems to be the only illegal element.

Shadowcaster is a little out of left field, though it does pair nicely with Rogue. It's mostly that the benefits you get out of it, what few there are, don't seem to stay super-relevant for too long. I won't say that it becomes useless, but it's too limited to count as an early boost in strength and too focused on the early game to really stay relevant later on, so that doesn't speak to your Elegance.

You're super feat-starved, which means that there's often a really long time between investment and payoff. Extend Spell is especially egregious (you literally can't even try to use it before ECL 8, and with your puny number of slots per day, you can't use it with any degree of practicality until Recaster kicks in and gives it to you for free at ECL 16), but it's not alone.

Not seeing any real elegant ways of handling prereqs or making them do double duty. I guess Shadowcaster giving Extend as a bonus feat isn't the worst possible way of getting it, but I'm otherwise unimpressed.

I think we're about at a 1.5 here. The illegal feat cost you heavily, and the lack of anything remarkable to make up for the small inelegances here and there didn't help.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 3

Trap Sensitivity is a reasonably respectable choice for making Trap Sense slightly less useless, so that's cool. One might quibble about how common nonmagical traps are after a certain level, but it's still a clever choice that I don't see every day, so I'm going to reward it. I mean, Trap Sense is terrible, after all, so using it to qualify for something is kind of interesting.

You pay enough lip service to your stealth and your darkvision that I believe that you care about it, but you don't do anything above and beyond with it. It's not useless, but you almost seem to be collecting it for the sake of collecting it rather than for the sake of using it for anything.

You either don't mention or barely mention Hide from Dragons and Treasure Dowsing. Deep Pockets is the closest thing to a unique ability that the class has, so it's disappointing that it gets minimal mention in your write-up.

You use the spell slots the class gives you very well. One or two of them might even be spent on spells from Hoardstealer's list!

Most of your Skill Mastery choices are fine, but I don't see you doing anything unusual or special or even especially interesting with them.

Your foundational classes are shaky enough that Hoardstealer does take up most of the space in your build, for lack of a better term. (This doesn't necessarily refer to actual number of levels.) It's not easy to see what the build would be without Hoardstealer.

I'll give this basically a midline score. You find better-than-average uses for the spell slots and Hoardstealer doesn't seem to be directly competing with or interfering the rest of the build, but you don't go above and beyond for anything but the spells, and you ignore the only really unique feature.

Final Thoughts: I don't want to be too harsh on this build. It's not that bad, and you'll noticed that I avoided deploying The Line on it, though I was tempted to do so. It just doesn't hold up to scrutiny as much as I was really hoping it would.

Zaq

2018-07-21, 08:41 PM

Okay. I think that's everything. Something like 31,872 words. ("So, what do you do in your spare time?" "Um, nothing much. I play the drums and I like video games? I definitely don't write Russian-novel-length treatises on other people's attempts to optimize absolutely unoptimizable aspects of a game that hasn't been new for over a decade. Not me, no sir. Boy, that sure would be weird.")

For a "skillful" class with a big list (regardless of what hilariously awful gaps there are in it), we had an awful lot of people brute-forcing their way through the skills during their Hoardstealer levels. Craft, Perform, K: Arcana, the obvious Hide and MS, Spellcraft, Perform, Listen—we had a LOT of cross-classing going on, and I find that amusing. It's like the skill list is perfectly wrong. I think almost every chef who didn't have Able Learner ended up cross-classing during their Hoardstealer tenure. Often severely.

Not a single chef took Craven as a way to keep early sneak attack semi-relevant through ten levels of a class that wants you to be a Rogue but that doesn't make you better at being a Rogue! That's fascinating, especially after things like Thrall of Demogorgon and Eye of the Xanathar.

Very few chefs were actually legal from start to finish. It's hard. It's real hard. Shout-out to The Professor for this.

I am very, very tired now. I understand if no one has any words left to discuss this class with, because I'm pretty sure I used them all. Please be gentle in your disputes. I've already spent enough effort on this. I will engage with any good-faith disputes that arise, but I already spent many hours trying to explain my perspective, both with my unnecessarily long guidelines and with this insanely long judgment, so please do make sure that your disputes aren't just an attempt to run up the score but are, in fact, good faith attempts to point out where I'm flagrantly wrong. I beg of you.

Thurbane

2018-07-21, 10:01 PM

Entry
Description
First Judge Score
Total Score

Paulie Pocket, The Body Bag (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197422&postcount=112)
N Dragonborn (Wings Aspect) Skarn; Psychic Rogue 1/Totemist 2/Psychic Rogue 3/Hoardstealer 10/Totemist 7
16.25
16.25

Splash Gordon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197419&postcount=110)
Deepwyrm Half-Drow; Feat Rogue 1/Truenamer 4/Hoardstealer 3/Truenamer +7/Hoardstealer +5
15
15

The Professor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197428&postcount=115)
CG Warforged Scout; Rogue 1/Artificer 9/Hoardstealer 10
14.25
14.25

Buckethead, the Pretender (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197420&postcount=111)
Strongheart Halfling; Rogue 1/Druid 6/Hoardstealer 3/Arcane Hierophant 2/ Hoardstealer +5/Arcane Hierophant +3

13.75
13.75

Hae Wyre (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197409&postcount=109)
CN Star Elf; Planar Bard 6/Cataclysm Mage 3/Hoardstealer 5/Sublime Chord 1/Ultimate Magus 5

12.5
12.5

Ser Iaijutsu Tonneu de Chartres (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197432&postcount=118)
CG Otherworldly Human; Ranger 2/Human Paragon 3/Fighter 2/Hoardstealer 10/Wyrm Wizard 3
12
12

Shellie Caleesye (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197425&postcount=113)
CN Human; Rogue 1/Incarnate 1/Totemist 1/Rogue +2/Hoardstealer 10/Exemplar 1/Uncanny Trickster 3/Exemplar +1
11
11

Tag Baggit (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197436&postcount=120)
CN Changeling; Rogue 2/Shadowcaster 3/Hoardstealer 10/Recaster 5
10.5
10.5

Gunnar von Sacher (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197435&postcount=119)
NE Silverbrow Human; Human Paragon 1/Incarnate 2/Human Paragon +2/Hoardstealer 7/Thayan Slaver 5/Hoardstealer +3
9.75
9.75

Mellon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197426&postcount=114)
N Dragonborn Human; Cloistered Cleric 5/Hoardstealer 4/Ruathar 2/Hoardstealer +4/Sovereign Speaker 3/Hoardstealer +2

8
8

Master Overmound Midnighter of the 14 Companions (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197431&postcount=117)
NG Halfling; Rogue 4/Swordsage 2/Hoardstealer 8/Whisperknife 5/Luckstealer 1
7.75
7.75

Paityr (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197429&postcount=116)
N Spellsticthced Necropolitan Naenhoon Illumian; Spellthief 1/Dread Necromancer 1/Rainbow Servant 10/Uncanny Trickster 2/Hoardstealer 6

7.5
7.5

The Viscount

2018-07-21, 10:13 PM

PunBlake

2018-07-22, 08:44 AM

Zaq, good sir, you'll have no disputes from me. I'll have more to say once the round is complete, mostly about my own weaknesses.
You wrote a treatise about everything. Holy crap. I feel a duty to read it all. Superlative judging.

Efrate

2018-07-22, 03:00 PM

Yeah no disputes from me. I went fluff over crunch with si and used the wrong feat which I didn't even qualify for. Live and learn. Next entry might not be so horrible.

Zaq

2018-07-22, 04:36 PM

Wow, Zaq. That's some intense effort judging the builds. I don't know that anyone else would have noticed the small quirks of the skills in all these builds. Your efforts are very much appreciated, and we are lucky to have someone who takes judging so seriously.

My HM nomination goes to Hae Wyre for going for maximum portal trickery.

Oh, right, HM! Of the builds currently not in medaling place, I think I want to give my HM nom to Ser Iaijutsu, because dammit, that build is trying. It is trying so hard, and I want to recognize that. It overreached in a few places and ended up not working as advertised, but I respect that it's reaching for the stars.

Zaq, good sir, you'll have no disputes from me. I'll have more to say once the round is complete, mostly about my own weaknesses.
You wrote a treatise about everything. Holy crap. I feel a duty to read it all. Superlative judging.

I'm honored. I can't do this very often and I have reason to believe that it's probably going to be a very long time before I judge again (I'm starting grad school next month, and it's been rather a few years since my undergrad, so I've gotta get used to doing actual homework again and stuff. You know, while still working like the adult I allegedly am), so I wanted to kind of give back to the community after having so much fun with the last few rounds. (It's probably good that I committed to judge ahead of time, because to be 100% honest, there is absolutely no way I would have volunteered if I had know that I was going to have 12 builds on my plate. That was crazy.) I'm glad that you are (and, I hope, everyone is) getting something out of this!

Yeah no disputes from me. I went fluff over crunch with si and used the wrong feat which I didn't even qualify for. Live and learn. Next entry might not be so horrible.

I know that I'm not always the gentlest judge. You said that this was your first time or close to it, right? I mean this sincerely: no matter how harsh I was while judging, it is truly, genuinely an accomplishment just to get something in. That's not a platitude. This is actually a difficult pastime! No matter how "horrible" you think the results were this time, you'll get better with practice. My early builds definitely weren't taking gold medals. And of course, there's a good chance (though no guarantee!) that the next judge you get will be less picky than I am, so there's always that!

Venger

2018-07-22, 11:35 PM

Thanks for judging, Zaq, and best of luck with grad school. When you judge a round, whether my dish does well or poorly, your judging is always interesting and fun to read. No disputes from me either.

Efrate, don't get discouraged. It took me four tries before I medaled. Each time we cook, we learn more fun and interesting things and become better chefs.

Efrate

2018-07-23, 07:24 AM

Nope not discouraged at all. I admit I messed up and heck I learned. Next time will be better.

KrimsonNekros

2018-07-23, 06:23 PM

No disputes, though i do have a complaint <_<

Zaq

2018-07-23, 08:04 PM

No disputes, though i do have a complaint <_<

I sincerely hope that I didn't offend you or treat you unfairly. Please tell me about it after the reveal and we can talk about it, if you like.

Heliomance

2018-07-24, 05:00 AM

There's one... sort of dispute? It doesn't seem to be pointing out any misjudgements, just discussing the build. I'll post it because it's interesting, but I don't think it's likely to make any difference to the scores. I'll try and do the wrap up this afternoon, unless anything major comes up.

Splash Gordon: 15
Power: 3
The bad news is that Rebuild Item has some limitations that you don't seem to have taken into consideration. Namely that you need to touch the item in question, and you only have one round to do it. That does not seem to play nice with the idea of launching a Deep Pocketized acid flask across the map, and you mentioned that there's some splash damage to be aware of, so I think you do indeed want to be pretty far away from the action.

In the interests of full disclosure, I didn't start this build until a few days *after* the original submission deadline had passed. I had another vacation-related deadline approaching, so I was very pressed for time to get this build done quickly. When I started to get down into the details of rebuilding the flasks, I realized there were some mechanical issues that I didn't have time to address. So I attempted to present a... perhaps more idealized view of how I thought things should work. Even if disregarding the Law of Resistance, rebuilding 300 non-magical flasks just doesn't work because of the one round limitation. Rather than take the time to fix this, I just mentioned it was possible to rebuild non-magical acid flasks and didn't worry so much about the details.

As far as the range is concerned, the intention of the gnome calculus was to use that for most of Gordon's non-magical splash weapons, and possibly as a last resort against a particularly tough airborne opponent, such as a dragon. At closer ranged targets, such as those within 50', the larger range increment of the gnome calculus allows Gordon to reduce the misdirection of a missed splash attack to a single 5' square (one square per range increment). Since the size of the splash doesn't change by the number of flasks, a 5' drift and 5' splash means a 10' gap between Gordon and his target allows him to avoid any splash damage. For shattered flasks beyond 30', Gordon can use his unseen servant to bring the pieces back to him. With a 15' fly speed, a well-placed unseen servant can increase Gordon's ability to retrieve his flask with a single move action to 45'. If Gordon adds haste to either himself or his unseen servant, then the range at which he can retrieve his broken flask increases considerably. However, as you are no doubt aware, none of this was discussed in the build.

Let's talk about your utterances a bit. I won't argue with most of them. They're pretty solid. I feel like there's a teeny-tiny bit of cargo cult following here in your choice of Hidden Truth when you don't have any meaningful ranks in any Knowledge skills (okay, eventually Arcana, but you wait for a while), but even if you're just taking it because I told you to take it as your first level 2 LEM, it's still pretty darn nice on its own, and it does let you count as trained.

I was hoping to put more ranks into more Knowledge skills earlier, but wound up prioritizing two Craft skills, Hide/Move Silently, Truenaming, and UMD over Knowledge, so I didn't quite get to it until much later in the build. I... uh... really wanted to?

But what sticks out to me is Silent Caster. Why Silent Caster? That's a truly baffling choice.

Silent Caster was more of an afterthought. Even though Gordon is primarily a ranged attacker, Archer's Eye and Perceive the Unseen didn't seem to help him all that much, as he doesn't particularly care if he hits his target directly... with 300+ splash damage, concealment or miss chance isn't really much of a concern. I took Silent Caster mostly as a debuff for other spellcasters. Even if the DC to target creatures is a bit high, he can cast it on an object for a flat DC 25 check and throw the object at the caster. In retrospect, Speed of the Zephyr or Strike of Might may have been a better choice. Mostly I was thinking "silence can be a good shutdown for casters". I wasn't aware it was such a dud.

But you probably chose to make a 'Namer after you saw I was judging anyway, so here we are.

Nope. I've been meaning to do a Rebuild Item build for awhile now, but the 11 levels of Truenamer makes it very hard to include in Iron Chef. If I had thought about who was judging I would have spent a lot more time digging through your Truenamer guide! As it was... I had to rush some things, and picking utterances was one of them.

One of the reasons that I say that I don't love your chances is because I'm not super impressed with your TS mod. Ranks and INT aren't even really a minimum. Full ranks and good INT is actually somewhere below what I'd call the minimum. On this build? No Skill Focus. No way to craft items that would help. No Paragnostic Assembly. No Marshal or Naen sigil or luck rerolls or anything like that. Best you can hope for is purchasing an AotST and maybe a custom competence item. I want to assume some level of competence, but let's remember that Truenamer constitutes an outright majority (not even a plurality but an actual majority) of your levels, and you kinda owe some back taxes here.

Yeah... I wrestled a bit with whether I had room to fit in Skill Focus in there somewhere, maybe swap it in for EWP: Gnome Calculus. Or trade it in for Truename Training and eat the cross-class skill ranks. This is a legitimate concern, and I didn't address this well.

You wasted 2 of your Skill Mastery slots. Neither Truespeak nor UMD play nicely with Skill Mastery. They're legal to choose, but it does nothing, because it's a clause in the skill itself rather than stress or distraction preventing taking 10.

Hmm... I hadn't really considered that this would be problematic. I may be seeing more wiggle room than is really there, but I'd argue that "because saying a truename is such an idiosynchratic, exacting task", that this is synonymous with "stress". The UMD description does not specify why exactly you can't take 10 with it, which leaves open the possibility that it could be due to stress or distraction. However, these arguments are not particularly strong.

To take a look at how you're filling your Glass Cannon and your other flasks, I think Hidden Talent is an excellent start but an uninspiring finish. I've never seen an encounter where you can manifest something like that in combat (a 1 minute casting time means that you aren't a character, you're a flag to be captured) without some kind of speed reduction. Out of combat, it's only 2/day, only lasts for 1 hour per casting, and you only get 1 cubic foot. You can cause a lot of havoc with 1 cubic foot of greensickness (let alone BLE), make no mistake, but it won't last all day, can't be stockpiled, doesn't scale, and basically shouldn't be your only source of juice (which in this case is closer than usual to being literal juice). You invest in Craft skills, but the downside is that mundane crafting takes for-bleeding-ever. I'm not seeing much of a way of mitigating this in the text of your write-up.

I had some thoughts that minor psionic creation could be used to create the more costly *ingredients* for poisons, and thus solving the problem of duration/stockpiling, but it's a grey area of the rules, and I didn't have enough time to really address the issue. A fair criticism. At one point I looked at trying to put access to fabricate into the build, but it didn't look feasible.

I like Treasure Dowsing as a way to help find raw materials, but the crafting time is still truly punishing if you're doing this sort of thing by hand.

I was planning to use skull talismans of unseen crafters/servant horde to help craft, but hadn't really gotten into the math of it.

Elegance: 2.5
You don't meet the prereqs for Quick Draw (BAB +1) when you take it, so that's going to cost you a bit.

Ugh. Ok, I thought I had missed something somewhat obvious. I think the only fix would be to take two levels of Truenamer first, then Feat Rogue 1, but that vaporizes 16 skill ranks at 1st level.

Why +6 ranks in UMD at ECL 7 when UMD has been a class skill for literally your entire career? Confusing.

Everything else I wanted skill ranks in at that level was either topped off or cross-class. When I got back into Truenamer, I didn't want UMD draining points away from Crafting. So I prioritized on UMD with Hoardstealer... uh... well... kinda? Yeah, it wound up looking a bit lumpy.

I will never understand why half-drow is so bloody common in Iron Chef (you'll notice that this is Elegance, so I'm obviously not taking off points in Originality or anything). It doesn't hurt you at all, but I fail to see it helping you much.

I had been penalized in a previous competition for using a "Drow" ACF with a non-drow race. So I was worried about that. Deepwyrm half-drow get a +2 racial bonus on Bluff checks, and I thought I might be able to do something with that (Hoardstealers get Bluff as a class skill), but it didn't work out that way. I tried tying the deepwyrm heritage into "researching draconic truenames", but it's not really a strong element. In the end, it seemed slightly more interesting than "oh look, another human".

Using Guerilla Warrior is a clever way of solving Hoardstealer's stealth problem on a race that doesn't qualify for Able Learner. Taking Truename Training at ECL 15 is honestly weird (I've never seen it that late before, and I think I'm unlikely to see it that late again anytime soon), but I guess it saves you 5 skill points in the ECL 16-20 bracket.

Yeah, it did look kinda dumb taking Truename Training so late, but it just felt *WRONG* to spend cross-class ranks on Truenaming. In hindsight, I should have eaten the cross-class ranks and taken Skill Focus: Truenaming instead. Craft/Hide/Move Silently didn't necessarily have to be maxxed out.

Thank you for such a thorough and comprehensive judging!

Heliomance

2018-07-24, 01:14 PM

Thank you for the table, Thurbane.

And now, the results!

Entry
Chef
Description
First Judge Score
Total Score

Paulie Pocket, The Body Bag (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197422&postcount=112)
The Viscount
N Dragonborn (Wings Aspect) Skarn; Psychic Rogue 1/Totemist 2/Psychic Rogue 3/Hoardstealer 10/Totemist 7
16.25
16.25

Splash Gordon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197419&postcount=110)
Darrin
Deepwyrm Half-Drow; Feat Rogue 1/Truenamer 4/Hoardstealer 3/Truenamer +7/Hoardstealer +5
15
15

The Professor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197428&postcount=115)
Piggy Knowles
CG Warforged Scout; Rogue 1/Artificer 9/Hoardstealer 10
14.25
14.25

Buckethead, the Pretender (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197420&postcount=111)
PunBlake
Strongheart Halfling; Rogue 1/Druid 6/Hoardstealer 3/Arcane Hierophant 2/ Hoardstealer +5/Arcane Hierophant +3

13.75
13.75

Hae Wyre (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197409&postcount=109)
daremetoidareyo
CN Star Elf; Planar Bard 6/Cataclysm Mage 3/Hoardstealer 5/Sublime Chord 1/Ultimate Magus 5

12.5
12.5

Ser Iaijutsu Tonneu de Chartres (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197432&postcount=118)
WhamBamSam
CG Otherworldly Human; Ranger 2/Human Paragon 3/Fighter 2/Hoardstealer 10/Wyrm Wizard 3
12
12

Shellie Caleesye (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197425&postcount=113)
Macabaret
CN Human; Rogue 1/Incarnate 1/Totemist 1/Rogue +2/Hoardstealer 10/Exemplar 1/Uncanny Trickster 3/Exemplar +1
11
11

Tag Baggit (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197436&postcount=120)
WhamBamSam
CN Changeling; Rogue 2/Shadowcaster 3/Hoardstealer 10/Recaster 5
10.5
10.5

Gunnar von Sacher (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197435&postcount=119)
Venger
NE Silverbrow Human; Human Paragon 1/Incarnate 2/Human Paragon +2/Hoardstealer 7/Thayan Slaver 5/Hoardstealer +3
9.75
9.75

Mellon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197426&postcount=114)
jdizzlean
N Dragonborn Human; Cloistered Cleric 5/Hoardstealer 4/Ruathar 2/Hoardstealer +4/Sovereign Speaker 3/Hoardstealer +2

8
8

Master Overmound Midnighter of the 14 Companions (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197431&postcount=117)
KrimsonNekros
NG Halfling; Rogue 4/Swordsage 2/Hoardstealer 8/Whisperknife 5/Luckstealer 1
7.75
7.75

Paityr (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23197429&postcount=116)
Efrate
N Spellsticthced Necropolitan Naenhoon Illumian; Spellthief 1/Dread Necromancer 1/Rainbow Servant 10/Uncanny Trickster 2/Hoardstealer 6

7.5
7.5

[/QUOTE]

Congratulations to The Viscount, Darrin, and Piggy Knowles for their places on the podium! Honourable Mention goes to Hae Wyre, for sheer ridiculosity.

New round probably won't be up until tomorrow.

daremetoidareyo

2018-07-24, 01:53 PM

Yeah, i crammed that build together in 3 hours, and had to edit skill points multiple times, and i had something like 50 tabs open at the same time.

Yay honorable mention! I'll add it to my trophy case!

PunBlake

2018-07-24, 02:07 PM

This is the line of judging with most impact for me:

You might have scored higher with a clearer focus on your skills and perhaps a little bit more discussion...

My weaknesses were primarily in the write-up (I left a LOT unsaid - the majority of Hoardstealer spells are gaps in the Druid list, Hide was no longer ranked-up at high levels because of the mix of Invisibility and size bonus to hide from Wild Shape Diminuitive, the non-table nature of my wild shape forms, other things) and secondarily in skills.

I underspent on skills because I took the FAQ interpretation of Able Learner and applied it to Education (1st level only vs always). Note: I was right to avoid asking the judge on this; I was the only one who used Education.
I overspent one rank because I iterated on my skill table at least 10 times, which is also why I have less ranks in visual skills and concentration.

Regardless, I'm happy to be close to the podium in a field of 12 on my first entry into an Iron Chef. I'm sure I'll enter again in the future.

daremetoidareyo

2018-07-24, 02:46 PM

As a note: Hae Wyre can be reconfigured without any hoardstealer or cataclysm mage levels.

a sparrow hengeyokai or beguiler/muckdweller/hairy spider planar bard 7/personal space nomad (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070314a)/sublime chord X can do everything that hae wyre can do while saving a buttload of feats and skill points. I don't know what happens when you store yourself in yourself, but uhhhh....something happens, and you can always retrieve yourself by spending your psionic focus.

One of the more frustrating things about the build was how one sided transdimensional spell is! How does one get to see inside an extradimensional space? Even more frustrating was how does the spell work on creatures on the material plane while your character is inside the extradimensional space. I wanted to be able to attack from total extraplanar cover, and have something like a spider hand spell, or any spell effect that removed a part of the character who could share perceptions which would stay in the real world and drag around the body. I played with malphas's bird eye view vestige ability or the warlocks crazy remove your hand and eye invocations.

Have another pc carry around your perception with a skull watch spell (get it in a wand!). Heck, even a familiar could do all the perception for you. And then you could target things with your spells on the material plane from a convenient hidey hole that you access through any of the other portal spells.

Portal well is fun if you manage to get your opponent to chase you, especially paired with melodic casting, as you run towards one of your many portal options, stash yourself in the well as you singsong link the portal to the abyss or some other random place, or to the shadowwell of their now dissappeared comrades. Shadowwell is weird because of the whole duration thing not stipulating whether or not the shadow continues being a portal after it sucks its creature in during its duration. The neat thing about shadow well is that it can be combined with telfirian song and heightened to stay relevant well into the end game.

Another one of my favorite options that couldn't fit, was the 6th level power of the anarchic initiate class from complete psionic, where 6 times a day you could open a breach to limbo. Its a supernatural ability, so you could take the widen or extend supernatural ability feats if you wanted to give it more juice.

I just didn't have enough time to write about all the strange and wonderful tactics that this build was capable of. Most of them revolved around unseen servants pulling thimbles full of PCs across otherwise pain in the but obstacles or making entire enemies disappear to other planes.

Piggy Knowles

2018-07-24, 02:55 PM

Thanks for judging, Zaq. Others already echoed this but seriously, no complaints at all. Your thoroughness and dedication is really appreciated.

Didn't want to send a dispute as I was more than happy with my score, and try to only send in disputes if I feel like the judge actually gets something wrong rules-wise or outright overlooks something, but you did have some questions about build direction, so I figured I'd give you my thoughts after the round was over:

1. The ranks in craft (alchemy) were mostly from an earlier write-up of the build, where the Professor made alchemical bombs that he would pack into his Deep Pockets spaces and deliver via his raven or pseudodragon familiar. It was actually the same exact build skeleton, but I found that the build was just doing so many things and the writeup was getting so long that at a certain point I decided I would be better off just focusing on the main tricks. That said, re-working all of the Professor's skills to account for no longer needing alchemy seemed exhausting, and I figured alchemy wasn't exactly a skill that would go amiss, so I kept it. (Speaking of Deep Pockets, though, I do wish I'd gone into more detail on using it for hiding places, as that is something I envisioned as being a big part of how the Professor plays... the mental image of being able to climb into a vase or a shoe or any other small object was one that I had in the back of my head, but never really made it into the writeup.)

2. Re: the use of treasure dowsing, you mentioned that the Professor would need to avoid using steel in his stronghold to keep from self-pinging, but I'm not sure that's necessary. The ability says that if you specify a specific metal or mineral, it gives you the location of each such deposit within range (rather than merely providing the largest deposit within range).

3. Re: the question of enchanting a weapon familiar and the weirdness of adding abilities to intelligent items, the racial substitution level actually specifically allows this, and says it follows the normal rules for enchanting any other item. "The warforged artificer must create a magic weapon, paying all the normal costs in gp and XP, after which he must spend an additional 1,000 gp and one more day to further imbue the item with sentience... ...At any time, the warforged artificer can further enhance his weapon familiar (as with any other magic weapon)." As for the weapon actually using its actions to activate no light or mage hand or what not, that's a neat idea, but it wasn't my intention for the build (and actually wasn't anything I'd considered). The Professor most isn't wanting for actions, and anyhow its abilities are not really meant for combat.

4. I considered prioritizing skills to allow for DD and open lock, but.... well, teleportation, an adamantine weapon and the ability to call up various dispelling effects when necessary can go a long way toward avoiding or getting rid of traps or doors, assuming you know where they are. In cases where he couldn't just disable the trap, his weapon familiar can provide him with a +20 boost to a check via guidance of the avatar, so he can just boost his DD check as needed. Adding ranks in DD and open lock over craft (alchemy) would have been a reasonable option, though, once I decided to remove the focus on alchemical bombs.

5. The build's UoSI really did hinge heavily on the idea of Skill Mastery applying to UMD (which admittedly requires a reading that most don't accept). Without that, Hoardstealer could have been replaced with any PrC that granted arcane casting and had decent skill points. While the deep pockets were the original inspiration for the build, you could easily rebuild the Professor without them, or just, you know, make a bunch of bags of holding. I mean the build still functions even without it, but guaranteed success on 4th-level spells without having to worry about bad rolls via SSI is pretty clutch.

6. The original goal of the build's familiar focus was actually a bit more involved. I had planned on getting a familiar, killing it, and using self-made scrolls of Animate Dead Familiar (from the Wizard spellbook archives) and Haunt Shift to have my familiar haunt the stronghold as an actual artificial intelligence. However, because of the restrictions on Haunt Shift, I needed a fair bit of cheese to make that work—the only way the Professor would be able to craft scrolls of those two spells at a low enough level to have his undead familiar still qualify for Haunt Shift (since the spell caps out at 9 HD) would be to make low-CL ur-priest scrolls, which is way cheesier than I was comfortable with. I still liked the idea of a familiar serving as the build's AI, though, and the pseudodragon seemed to fit in well with the Hoardstealer theme and kind of give me a similar effect.

7. Oh my god I have read Darkstalker a million times and somehow always assumed it made you immune to darkvision as well. That makes the no light trick way less useful. I had been thinking that Darkstalker also made you "immune" to darkvision, giving the Professor a neat position where he had concealment even against foes with darkvision but could see just fine himself. No light is still useful for sneaking, so I wouldn't change things, but I'm a bit disappointed I missed that.

8. I didn't bother going up to Artificer 6 at ECL 7 because realistically, I couldn't hit the DCs for SSI for third level spells at that point without GotA abuse.

9. The random ranks in autohypnosis and spellcraft were just because I had some extra ranks to spare once I managed to catch up on other skills, and grabbing a few trained only skills (that I could boost if necessary with my weapon familiar's GotA) seemed handy. I probably should have spelled that out somewhere but... man, this build was already way more complex than I usually like, and I really didn't want to go on forever. As it was, I was dangerously close to requiring two posts to get it all in.

10. I swear I did mention hide from dragons! In the level by level analysis I mentioned picking up a useful but niche SLA. That's... well, I really didn't feel like shoehorning in some reason why that was actually super useful specifically to the Professor, so I gave it a passing mention in the writeup and moved on. If he's facing dragons it's great, if he's not facing dragons it's useless. I wasn't really interested in trying to justify an ability that is niche by nature. I'm always a fan of focusing on what works well in a build rather than trying to jump through hoops in hopes of proving I'm using every single part of the buffalo. Kudos to any other build that found a more interesting use of the ability.

Anyhow, those were some of my thoughts. I had a lot of fun with the Professor, and you put in a ton of work judging, so I figured I could spare to write a few more words about my thought process. Thanks again for the judging, and I hope next time we go a bit easier on you.

WhamBamSam

2018-07-24, 03:02 PM

Good round all and congratulations to the winners. Looking forward to the next one.

I didn't bother disputing it, as I wasn't in medal contention, but Wyrm Wizard Spell Research does allow you to select spells of the highest level you can cast.
Spell Research (Ex): One of the greatest advantages that you gain from consulting draconic lore is the ability to unlock magical secrets forbidden to other wizards. Starting at 2nd level, select one spell from any class's spell list (including divine spells), of a level equal to or lower than the highest-level arcane spell you can prepare and cast. You can add this spell to your arcane spellcasting class spell list as a spell of the same level; all other aspects of the spell remain unchanged. At every even-numbered level thereafter, you gain the knowledge and use of one additional spell in this manner.Emphasis mine.

You may have gotten it mixed up with Recaster Expanded Knowledge from my other entry.

The allusion to Isaac Newton is in reference to a) being able to see further in the dark being a big part of the character's shtick, and b) the character getting his power by way of a leg-up from powerful/elder entities (Celestial-Attended Birth, Wyrm Wizard, Oxyrhynicus) and the legends of old (Collector of Stories+Knowledge Devotion). Also, I was rather amused to discover that the "shoulders of giants" quote was itself a quotation, attributed to a philosopher named Bernard de Chartres who I also referenced in the name.

Venger

2018-07-24, 05:54 PM

Thanks for judging, Zaq.

I have a policy not to dispute if I’m not in contention for a medal to expedite the reveal, but there were a few small things about my build I wanted to talk about:

I’m glad you liked my concept and backstory. Our discussion earlier in the thread about hordestealer/hoardstealer was partially responsible for this. Gunnar steals a horde to get into the si. Plus I wasn’t that excited about writing another story about stealing money, especially not right after Xanathar, since I figured that’s what everyone else would be doing.

I didn’t overspend at 17, I’ve got 10 points (6 from class, 4 from int, which has been boosted by inherent bonuses by now) and spent 10, but yeah, the chart does jump from 16 to 20. Must’ve been through one of the revisions. Not really sure what happened there. I really hate skillful secret ingredients.

I did indeed forget to boost ba at 16 (slaver 4) so my bonus from there on is one low, and I finish at 13, not 12. Not real sure how that happened, but there that is.

As Heliomance helpfully noted, I ran out of room in this entry, and I learned a long time ago that if your dish is longer than 1 post, people will not read it. Since everyone in the round has access to the same hoardstealer spell progression, I left it out for space.

I can absolutely designate umd as a skill mastery skill and take 10 on it (specific trumps general.) There’s no rule against it. The addendum about taking 10 is about normal use of the skill, not skill mastery. I always designate umd as one of my skill mastery skills since it’s the most important skill in the game, and no one has ever complained about it. If it’s actually against the rules, I’d like to know so I can allocate my resources elsewhere in future rounds when you judge. I know it didn’t get a deduction, but it’d be good info for me to have.

We’ve discussed our difference in philosophies on skill points before, but I’m impressed with your dedication. Those charts are really something. Lumpiness or swinginess or whatever you want to call it is inevitable in my experience, especially with skillful builds.

I’m well aware I can’t have all melds shaped all the time, but if I don’t describe some specific abilities imparted by a meld shaping class and take it for granted, in my experience, I will be excoriated by judges for not explaining my build adequately. I don’t describe specific loudouts re: melds for meldshaping characters because there’s no reason to do so, and again, I ran out of room.

If I say “I’ve got all the incarnate melds, you know what I can do,” I will be criticized for not explaining my abilities enough. If I describe a handful of melds, I will be criticized under the idea that I don’t understand how meldshaping works and that I think I can have all of them up at the same time. How do you suggest I avoid this catch-22 in the future?

What is this “arcane keyword” you’re referring to?

I didn’t take rogue because it’d be a gut punch to the originality. But yeah, like everyone else I basically avoided rogue for the sake of avoiding rogue.

The Viscount

2018-07-24, 06:07 PM

Great round everyone. Every build brought its own special something to the round, and I was fascinated to see how many directions we ended up taking. I was extremely worried about using psychic rogue for the second time in a row because it seemed it would be fresh on everyone's mind, and that I might be tipping my hand by using the class again, but I just needed too many things it offered.
Any round I get to break out Serpent Kingdoms is a round I have fun in.

A big thanks again to Zaq for all of your hard work. If you'd like to know what I was thinking for a few of the odder points, here's a few explanations.

On PP: I completely forgot to count up my PP (hence not being written anywhere), so didn't realize I was limited to only twice a day. I likely would have done something to fix that had I realized.

On moving enemies into the Body Pouch: I was operating under the idea that since in a grapple you can take as many actions as you have iteratives, and it isn't a full attack to attack with the wormtail, that I'd have one iterative "used" in making that attack and one "left" to do grappling. The rules as I could find were silent on the issue.

On melds in slots: I admit I'm guilty of talking about my melds more as a list of options than an itemized loadout, sorry if that made it unclear what I would be doing most days.

On the absence of improved grapple: I noted to myself when doing my build that I can gain the benefit of improved grapple by binding the Totem Avatar to my arms. I forgot to include this in my writeup, likely because I was writing it late in the night.

On Mauling Gauntlets: I thought that might be someone's interpretation of the rules, but I decided to take a gamble. Looks like I forgot to shape the lucky dice.

On skills: I did my skills in more than one session, so the screwups are likely where I started or stopped. at 9 I underspent because I capped out all the skills I was progressing, and met the criteria for all my skills I was investing for prerequisites. Nothing was jumping out at me for the last point, then I likely got distracted or put the document away, then when resuming thought I had finished that level. The last two levels I think I had started again and gotten back into the mindset of having 2 more points from hoardstealer.

Zaq

2018-07-24, 07:09 PM

Good round all and congratulations to the winners. Looking forward to the next one.

I didn't bother disputing it, as I wasn't in medal contention, but Wyrm Wizard Spell Research does allow you to select spells of the highest level you can cast. Emphasis mine.

You may have gotten it mixed up with Recaster Expanded Knowledge from my other entry.

The allusion to Isaac Newton is in reference to a) being able to see further in the dark being a big part of the character's shtick, and b) the character getting his power by way of a leg-up from powerful/elder entities (Celestial-Attended Birth, Wyrm Wizard, Oxyrhynicus) and the legends of old (Collector of Stories+Knowledge Devotion). Also, I was rather amused to discover that the "shoulders of giants" quote was itself a quotation, attributed to a philosopher named Bernard de Chartres who I also referenced in the name.

Wha-wha-whaaaaaaaat?! Oh, man am I embarrassed now! I'm so sorry! That woulda been worth at least at least an extra 0.5 or so in Power. Possibly even 0.75 (though it is late in the build and it is firmly limited in how often per day it works). I'm so, so sorry that I missed that! I did indeed check the specific wording (when I said "I just noticed something bad," I did in fact mean that I had just noticed it again when checking the wording on Wyrm Wizard), but I evidently did not read carefully enough. I clearly just read "of a level [at least one level] lower than the highest-level..." That is 100% my bad! I can edit the score if it's not too late and if anyone cares.

Time is a bit short right now. I'll do my best to engage with everyone else later on (possibly tomorrow). But I did feel the need to apologize immediately for messing up Ser Iaijutsu like that. I will do better in the future!

Troacctid

2018-07-24, 11:58 PM

I'm also not super willing to buy your explanation about Initiate of Astilabor and having the Sovereign Host as your patron deity. Yeah, there's the pantheon clause, but the Sovereign Host is already a pantheon, and it doesn't traditionally include Astilabor.
This is actually covered in Dragons of Eberron. The dragons of Argonnessen follow a religion known as Thir, which acknowledges three different related pantheons: the progenitors (Eberron, Khyber, and Siberys), the Dragon Gods (the draconic pantheon as described in Draconomicon: Bahamut, Astilabor, Io, Chronepsis, et al.), and the Sovereign Host. The progenitors created the world and are generally believed not to respond to prayers. The Dragon Gods are represented by constellations in the night sky and are said to concern themselves only with the affairs of dragons, ignoring the prayers of lesser creatures. The Sovereign Host are lower-ranking deities who reign over the non-dragons.

Efrate

2018-07-25, 06:31 AM

PunBlake

2018-07-25, 07:36 AM

Given how dragon-y Hoardstealer is flavor-wise, I'm not surprised I'm not the only one referencing Dragons of Eberron. The reason my fluff didn't make sense is similar: it's based on fighting against one of the factions laid out in more detail in DoE. "The Chamber" is a bunch of dragons who meddle in the world in an effort to change the Dragon Prophecy. I think this is also mentioned in passing in ECS, but Dragons goes into a lot more fluff detail.

I was also already breaking into my second message without adding more, but for me it was more about time than things I cut. Too many build revisions, not enough write-up revisions.

Side note: The reason I mentioned the Darkvision enhancement from the SI working in wildshape was because of Dragon Wild Shape granting the supernatural abilities of dragon shapes, which includes their base Darkvision; Buckethead can see further with Darkvision than most dragons.

Darrin

2018-07-25, 07:40 AM

Minor question, and not trying to be inconsiderate, but hae wyre takes a single level of sublime chord at 13, don't you have to finish sublime chord before anything else? Did I miss an update or something? One of my discarded ideas was using that but that limitation stopped me.

I'm not aware of any clause or requirement in Sublime Chord that compels you to finish the PrC or restricts you from prestiging out somewhere else. The only "class" that I'm aware of with such a restriction are the Monster Classes in Savage Species.

daremetoidareyo

2018-07-25, 08:08 AM

Minor question, and not trying to be inconsiderate, but hae wyre takes a single level of sublime chord at 13, don't you have to finish sublime chord before anything else? Did I miss an update or something? One of my discarded ideas was using that but that limitation stopped me.

I did some googling and discovered the issue. Therafirm (the top site if you Google sublime chord) has an extra 1st level provision called bardic lock that says you have to take all 10 levels.

Complete arcane has no such restriction.

Heliomance

2018-07-25, 09:25 AM

I'm not aware of any clause or requirement in Sublime Chord that compels you to finish the PrC or restricts you from prestiging out somewhere else. The only "class" that I'm aware of with such a restriction are the Monster Classes in Savage Species.

Don't forget Risen Martyr

Efrate

2018-07-25, 09:41 AM

Thanks, I don't remember where I saw it but that clears it up. Should have went there as well I think i could only fit 6 levels or so of sublime chord but it was deleted like all my extra ideas I discarded.

Heliomance

2018-07-25, 10:32 AM

New thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?564804-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XCIV&p=23248185)

Zaq

2018-07-26, 01:22 AM

My weaknesses were primarily in the write-up (I left a LOT unsaid - the majority of Hoardstealer spells are gaps in the Druid list, Hide was no longer ranked-up at high levels because of the mix of Invisibility and size bonus to hide from Wild Shape Diminuitive, the non-table nature of my wild shape forms, other things) and secondarily in skills.

I underspent on skills because I took the FAQ interpretation of Able Learner and applied it to Education (1st level only vs always). Note: I was right to avoid asking the judge on this; I was the only one who used Education.
I overspent one rank because I iterated on my skill table at least 10 times, which is also why I have less ranks in visual skills and concentration.

Regardless, I'm happy to be close to the podium in a field of 12 on my first entry into an Iron Chef. I'm sure I'll enter again in the future.

I'm glad I didn't scare you off entirely! I'm obviously biased, but it sounds like you've learned about the right lessons I was trying to impart. Like I keep saying, these aren't museum pieces: the more you lead the judge to what you want them to see, the more likely they are to see it. Don't be coy or subtle. (Outright boasting is usually only appropriate if it's funny, but still, spelling out what makes you cool is usually wise!)

I totally understand what you mean about changing the skill table. Skill tables are nightmarish. Changing absolutely anything in them midway through is truly hellish.

As a note: Hae Wyre can be reconfigured without any hoardstealer or cataclysm mage levels.

a sparrow hengeyokai or beguiler/muckdweller/hairy spider planar bard 7/personal space nomad (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070314a)/sublime chord X can do everything that hae wyre can do while saving a buttload of feats and skill points. I don't know what happens when you store yourself in yourself, but uhhhh....something happens, and you can always retrieve yourself by spending your psionic focus.

One of the more frustrating things about the build was how one sided transdimensional spell is! How does one get to see inside an extradimensional space? Even more frustrating was how does the spell work on creatures on the material plane while your character is inside the extradimensional space. I wanted to be able to attack from total extraplanar cover, and have something like a spider hand spell, or any spell effect that removed a part of the character who could share perceptions which would stay in the real world and drag around the body. I played with malphas's bird eye view vestige ability or the warlocks crazy remove your hand and eye invocations.

Have another pc carry around your perception with a skull watch spell (get it in a wand!). Heck, even a familiar could do all the perception for you. And then you could target things with your spells on the material plane from a convenient hidey hole that you access through any of the other portal spells.

Portal well is fun if you manage to get your opponent to chase you, especially paired with melodic casting, as you run towards one of your many portal options, stash yourself in the well as you singsong link the portal to the abyss or some other random place, or to the shadowwell of their now dissappeared comrades. Shadowwell is weird because of the whole duration thing not stipulating whether or not the shadow continues being a portal after it sucks its creature in during its duration. The neat thing about shadow well is that it can be combined with telfirian song and heightened to stay relevant well into the end game.

Another one of my favorite options that couldn't fit, was the 6th level power of the anarchic initiate class from complete psionic, where 6 times a day you could open a breach to limbo. Its a supernatural ability, so you could take the widen or extend supernatural ability feats if you wanted to give it more juice.

I just didn't have enough time to write about all the strange and wonderful tactics that this build was capable of. Most of them revolved around unseen servants pulling thimbles full of PCs across otherwise pain in the but obstacles or making entire enemies disappear to other planes.

That is pretty wild stuff. I meant what I said when I said that the build kind of broke me a little bit. Probably absolutely insane to GM for. For something that you banged out in 3 hours, you obviously put a fair amount of thought into it!

Thanks for judging, Zaq. Others already echoed this but seriously, no complaints at all. Your thoroughness and dedication is really appreciated.

Didn't want to send a dispute as I was more than happy with my score, and try to only send in disputes if I feel like the judge actually gets something wrong rules-wise or outright overlooks something, but you did have some questions about build direction, so I figured I'd give you my thoughts after the round was over:

1. The ranks in craft (alchemy) were mostly from an earlier write-up of the build, where the Professor made alchemical bombs that he would pack into his Deep Pockets spaces and deliver via his raven or pseudodragon familiar. It was actually the same exact build skeleton, but I found that the build was just doing so many things and the writeup was getting so long that at a certain point I decided I would be better off just focusing on the main tricks. That said, re-working all of the Professor's skills to account for no longer needing alchemy seemed exhausting, and I figured alchemy wasn't exactly a skill that would go amiss, so I kept it. (Speaking of Deep Pockets, though, I do wish I'd gone into more detail on using it for hiding places, as that is something I envisioned as being a big part of how the Professor plays... the mental image of being able to climb into a vase or a shoe or any other small object was one that I had in the back of my head, but never really made it into the writeup.)

2. Re: the use of treasure dowsing, you mentioned that the Professor would need to avoid using steel in his stronghold to keep from self-pinging, but I'm not sure that's necessary. The ability says that if you specify a specific metal or mineral, it gives you the location of each such deposit within range (rather than merely providing the largest deposit within range).

3. Re: the question of enchanting a weapon familiar and the weirdness of adding abilities to intelligent items, the racial substitution level actually specifically allows this, and says it follows the normal rules for enchanting any other item. "The warforged artificer must create a magic weapon, paying all the normal costs in gp and XP, after which he must spend an additional 1,000 gp and one more day to further imbue the item with sentience... ...At any time, the warforged artificer can further enhance his weapon familiar (as with any other magic weapon)." As for the weapon actually using its actions to activate no light or mage hand or what not, that's a neat idea, but it wasn't my intention for the build (and actually wasn't anything I'd considered). The Professor most isn't wanting for actions, and anyhow its abilities are not really meant for combat.

4. I considered prioritizing skills to allow for DD and open lock, but.... well, teleportation, an adamantine weapon and the ability to call up various dispelling effects when necessary can go a long way toward avoiding or getting rid of traps or doors, assuming you know where they are. In cases where he couldn't just disable the trap, his weapon familiar can provide him with a +20 boost to a check via guidance of the avatar, so he can just boost his DD check as needed. Adding ranks in DD and open lock over craft (alchemy) would have been a reasonable option, though, once I decided to remove the focus on alchemical bombs.

5. The build's UoSI really did hinge heavily on the idea of Skill Mastery applying to UMD (which admittedly requires a reading that most don't accept). Without that, Hoardstealer could have been replaced with any PrC that granted arcane casting and had decent skill points. While the deep pockets were the original inspiration for the build, you could easily rebuild the Professor without them, or just, you know, make a bunch of bags of holding. I mean the build still functions even without it, but guaranteed success on 4th-level spells without having to worry about bad rolls via SSI is pretty clutch.

6. The original goal of the build's familiar focus was actually a bit more involved. I had planned on getting a familiar, killing it, and using self-made scrolls of Animate Dead Familiar (from the Wizard spellbook archives) and Haunt Shift to have my familiar haunt the stronghold as an actual artificial intelligence. However, because of the restrictions on Haunt Shift, I needed a fair bit of cheese to make that work—the only way the Professor would be able to craft scrolls of those two spells at a low enough level to have his undead familiar still qualify for Haunt Shift (since the spell caps out at 9 HD) would be to make low-CL ur-priest scrolls, which is way cheesier than I was comfortable with. I still liked the idea of a familiar serving as the build's AI, though, and the pseudodragon seemed to fit in well with the Hoardstealer theme and kind of give me a similar effect.

7. Oh my god I have read Darkstalker a million times and somehow always assumed it made you immune to darkvision as well. That makes the no light trick way less useful. I had been thinking that Darkstalker also made you "immune" to darkvision, giving the Professor a neat position where he had concealment even against foes with darkvision but could see just fine himself. No light is still useful for sneaking, so I wouldn't change things, but I'm a bit disappointed I missed that.

8. I didn't bother going up to Artificer 6 at ECL 7 because realistically, I couldn't hit the DCs for SSI for third level spells at that point without GotA abuse.

9. The random ranks in autohypnosis and spellcraft were just because I had some extra ranks to spare once I managed to catch up on other skills, and grabbing a few trained only skills (that I could boost if necessary with my weapon familiar's GotA) seemed handy. I probably should have spelled that out somewhere but... man, this build was already way more complex than I usually like, and I really didn't want to go on forever. As it was, I was dangerously close to requiring two posts to get it all in.

10. I swear I did mention hide from dragons! In the level by level analysis I mentioned picking up a useful but niche SLA. That's... well, I really didn't feel like shoehorning in some reason why that was actually super useful specifically to the Professor, so I gave it a passing mention in the writeup and moved on. If he's facing dragons it's great, if he's not facing dragons it's useless. I wasn't really interested in trying to justify an ability that is niche by nature. I'm always a fan of focusing on what works well in a build rather than trying to jump through hoops in hopes of proving I'm using every single part of the buffalo. Kudos to any other build that found a more interesting use of the ability.

Anyhow, those were some of my thoughts. I had a lot of fun with the Professor, and you put in a ton of work judging, so I figured I could spare to write a few more words about my thought process. Thanks again for the judging, and I hope next time we go a bit easier on you.

1: That makes as much sense as anything else!

2: I suppose that makes sense, but I still find the concept to be pretty limited, especially if you don't know whether you've got more steel or if your enemy has more. Still, like I said in the actual judgment, partial credit for effort. Lots of chefs didn't even try.

3: Yeah, I could tell that it was being enchanted as a normal magical item. I guess I had just assumed that you were trying to enchant it to use its own powers (otherwise why bother making it intelligent, you know?), but the fact that you weren't trying to gain that benefit means that I was probably judging fairly correctly!

4: I guess I kind of glossed over how reliable GotA makes you, at least a couple of times per day. I understand tight skill points, though. Never enough to do all we want to do.

5: I'll admit that I can see a bit of ambiguity in SM's interaction with UMD, but I wrote my Truenamer guide under the explicit assumption that Truespeak + Skill Mastery = nope, and it seemed hypocritical to change that for UMD. (I also still believe that "Truespeak/UMD + Skill Mastery = nope" is still RAW; this isn't merely some ideological line in the sand or anything. But the precedent I set is pretty clear.)

6: I think your Elegance thanks you for not going that route.

7: You're thinking of the Ring of the Darkhidden. MIC pg. 122. Surprisingly cheap, actually.

8: Totally understandable.

9: Again, understandable (as I indicated, I totally get that you'd caught up the skills you were playing catchup on), and I missed the fact that Spellcraft/Forgery are trained-only. Live and learn, I suppose. It's all just a matter of explaining what you're doing and why you're doing it.

10: Yeah, I don't think anyone really made a big deal about HfD, and I don't blame them. The best thing to do with it is to scrap it and sell it for parts (like with Nosomatic Chirurgeon). But that's expensive and not actually the baseline.

Side note: DID you actually intend to use Wand Bonding with SSI, or was I reading in more than is appropriate? I won't go back and edit the numbers or anything, I promise. I'm just curious if I read in more than I should have.

Thanks for judging, Zaq.

I have a policy not to dispute if I’m not in contention for a medal to expedite the reveal, but there were a few small things about my build I wanted to talk about:

I’m glad you liked my concept and backstory. Our discussion earlier in the thread about hordestealer/hoardstealer was partially responsible for this. Gunnar steals a horde to get into the si. Plus I wasn’t that excited about writing another story about stealing money, especially not right after Xanathar, since I figured that’s what everyone else would be doing.

I didn’t overspend at 17, I’ve got 10 points (6 from class, 4 from int, which has been boosted by inherent bonuses by now) and spent 10, but yeah, the chart does jump from 16 to 20. Must’ve been through one of the revisions. Not really sure what happened there. I really hate skillful secret ingredients.

I did indeed forget to boost ba at 16 (slaver 4) so my bonus from there on is one low, and I finish at 13, not 12. Not real sure how that happened, but there that is.

As Heliomance helpfully noted, I ran out of room in this entry, and I learned a long time ago that if your dish is longer than 1 post, people will not read it. Since everyone in the round has access to the same hoardstealer spell progression, I left it out for space.

I can absolutely designate umd as a skill mastery skill and take 10 on it (specific trumps general.) There’s no rule against it. The addendum about taking 10 is about normal use of the skill, not skill mastery. I always designate umd as one of my skill mastery skills since it’s the most important skill in the game, and no one has ever complained about it. If it’s actually against the rules, I’d like to know so I can allocate my resources elsewhere in future rounds when you judge. I know it didn’t get a deduction, but it’d be good info for me to have.

We’ve discussed our difference in philosophies on skill points before, but I’m impressed with your dedication. Those charts are really something. Lumpiness or swinginess or whatever you want to call it is inevitable in my experience, especially with skillful builds.

I’m well aware I can’t have all melds shaped all the time, but if I don’t describe some specific abilities imparted by a meld shaping class and take it for granted, in my experience, I will be excoriated by judges for not explaining my build adequately. I don’t describe specific loudouts re: melds for meldshaping characters because there’s no reason to do so, and again, I ran out of room.

If I say “I’ve got all the incarnate melds, you know what I can do,” I will be criticized for not explaining my abilities enough. If I describe a handful of melds, I will be criticized under the idea that I don’t understand how meldshaping works and that I think I can have all of them up at the same time. How do you suggest I avoid this catch-22 in the future?

What is this “arcane keyword” you’re referring to?

I didn’t take rogue because it’d be a gut punch to the originality. But yeah, like everyone else I basically avoided rogue for the sake of avoiding rogue.

The short stories (I'm tempted to call them novellas!) you append to your builds are always a delight, good sir.

There is no actual "arcane keyword" in 3.5. I just use that as a shorthand for "using the fact that you have arcane casting to qualify for something." So, you know, Obtain Familiar, or a class that requires arcane casting to get in, or whatever. In this specific context, it kind of refers to the fact that many people who took advantage of HS's casting aren't really using the actual spells as the primary benefit but are using the fact that HS's spells can meet prereqs as the primary benefit.

At the risk of harping on a nit, at 17 you take Thayan Slaver (4 + INT skill points), and since your INT is +5 by that point (16 starting, 18 after two level-up bumps, 20 after Human Paragon), that's 9, not 10. Only one person got absolutely nothing illegal about their build table this round, though, so only screwing up as much as you did is honestly still reasonably impressive.

I think we may have to agree to disagree about Skill Mastery. Skill Mastery specifically mentions that it gets rid of the clause about stress or distractions preventing taking 10, but I view UMD's "you cannot take 10 with this skill" clause as being more specific than that. The wording on Hardened Criminal is broad enough to support a specific-beats-general case, I think, but I'm not saying anything new here. I see where you're coming from. I just happen to disagree. So that's cool.

Regarding melds, at the risk of holding myself up as some kind of ideal, I've always been proud of the way I presented Fra'alstog's melds in the Thrall of Demogorgon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22441637&postcount=105) round. In each level bracket, I laid out a few melds (smaller than my full daily allotment) that were either locked in place or otherwise assumed to be shaped/bound, and then I talked about how many "free" meld slots I had and what the short list of things to fill those free slots with would contain. I'm sure there are other ways that look as good, but in my extremely biased opinion, that's a pretty good way to do it.

I'm not sure what more I can say about skill binging than I already did. You did convince me to look at the concept with new eyes, especially because you went far enough that it looked like you did it on purpose. That's a big part of what I'm looking for when I'm judging; stuff that looks like it was done on purpose tends to do better with me than stuff where I can't tell if the judge is approaching things with the same mindset that I'm reading them with. (Which is one reason why I push so hard to encourage everyone to explain the hell out of everything, but that's hardly surprising, no?)

I respect not wanting to enter a class the way The Man wants you to enter it. My yardstick, though, is generally if you're actually gaining different tricks or otherwise differentiating your build in terms of your actual capabilities rather than if you're just writing different words on your character sheet.

Great round everyone. Every build brought its own special something to the round, and I was fascinated to see how many directions we ended up taking. I was extremely worried about using psychic rogue for the second time in a row because it seemed it would be fresh on everyone's mind, and that I might be tipping my hand by using the class again, but I just needed too many things it offered.
Any round I get to break out Serpent Kingdoms is a round I have fun in.

A big thanks again to Zaq for all of your hard work. If you'd like to know what I was thinking for a few of the odder points, here's a few explanations.

On PP: I completely forgot to count up my PP (hence not being written anywhere), so didn't realize I was limited to only twice a day. I likely would have done something to fix that had I realized.

On moving enemies into the Body Pouch: I was operating under the idea that since in a grapple you can take as many actions as you have iteratives, and it isn't a full attack to attack with the wormtail, that I'd have one iterative "used" in making that attack and one "left" to do grappling. The rules as I could find were silent on the issue.

On melds in slots: I admit I'm guilty of talking about my melds more as a list of options than an itemized loadout, sorry if that made it unclear what I would be doing most days.

On the absence of improved grapple: I noted to myself when doing my build that I can gain the benefit of improved grapple by binding the Totem Avatar to my arms. I forgot to include this in my writeup, likely because I was writing it late in the night.

On Mauling Gauntlets: I thought that might be someone's interpretation of the rules, but I decided to take a gamble. Looks like I forgot to shape the lucky dice.

On skills: I did my skills in more than one session, so the screwups are likely where I started or stopped. at 9 I underspent because I capped out all the skills I was progressing, and met the criteria for all my skills I was investing for prerequisites. Nothing was jumping out at me for the last point, then I likely got distracted or put the document away, then when resuming thought I had finished that level. The last two levels I think I had started again and gotten back into the mindset of having 2 more points from hoardstealer.

Once more, there's some excellent stuff served up with Paulie, I gotta say. I don't have a whole lot to specifically add to what you're saying, though most of it is fairly reasonable. Your build was especially fun to judge!

This is actually covered in Dragons of Eberron. The dragons of Argonnessen follow a religion known as Thir, which acknowledges three different related pantheons: the progenitors (Eberron, Khyber, and Siberys), the Dragon Gods (the draconic pantheon as described in Draconomicon: Bahamut, Astilabor, Io, Chronepsis, et al.), and the Sovereign Host. The progenitors created the world and are generally believed not to respond to prayers. The Dragon Gods are represented by constellations in the night sky and are said to concern themselves only with the affairs of dragons, ignoring the prayers of lesser creatures. The Sovereign Host are lower-ranking deities who reign over the non-dragons.

Huh. I feel like that somehow makes it worse, honestly. But I appreciate the info!