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RelentlessImp
2007-09-06, 09:05 PM
We all know that Clerics are just vicious bastards in a fight, and Arcane casters can be brutal. Prior to 3.xE, though, they paid for this ability to stand above and beyond the rest of the DnD world, and paid dearly, in the forms of larger experience pools required for their levels.

I suggest bringing back these experience tables from 2E for the Cleric-types and Wizard-types, and in fact, reinstituting all the experience tables from 2E. It will bring things back towards a little more balance.

Also, other suggestions for the oft-sought 'balance':

*Wizards should never be able to be generalists.
I've never really understood the mechanic of allowing a generalist Wizard to cast any and all spells; nobody is good at everything at once, after all. To that end, I suggest the following:

-At first level, an Arcane caster that prepares spells must choose 4 schools of magic that they understand well enough to cast. These schools can never be changed. An Arcane caster should not be capable of casting spells outside of those known abilities.

-At first level, an Arcane caster is given four "free feats", which allow them to cast up to second level spells in each of the schools. Separate feats for separate schools. At first level, their feats could look something like this:

//Basic Learning: Transmutation - Allows the Wizard to cast up to second level Transmutation spells.
//Basic Learning: Conjuration - Allows the Wizard to cast up to second level Conjuration spells.
//Basic Learning: Evocation - Allows the Wizard to cast up to second level Evocation spells.
//Basic Learning: Necromancy - Allows the Wizard to cast up to second level Necromancy spells.

-Each time an Arcane caster gains a feat, he/she has the option of taking "Advanced Learning *: (School)" which allows them to cast spells up to a certain level of that school. For example:
//Advanced Learning: Transmutation 1 - Allows the Wizard to cast Transmutation spells up to fourth level. Requires Basic Learning: Transmutation.
//Advanced Learning: Transmutation 2 - Allows the Wizard to cast Transmutation spells up to sixth level. Requires Advanced Learning: Transmutation 1.
//Advanced Learning: Transmutation 3 - Allows the Wizard to cast Transmutation spells up to eighth level. Requires Advanced Learning: Transmutation 2.
*There is no ninth level in this variation, leaving those to Epic levels, such as:
//Epic Learning: Transmutation - Allows the Wizard to cast Transmutation spells of ninth level and the ability to craft their own transmutation school spells (using the Epic Spell System outlined somewhere that's SRD material). Requires Advanced Learning: Transmutation 3.

*For Specialist Wizards;
-Same number of schools known as generalists; however, they choose one of their schools as "insignificant", meaning they'll never be able to gain Advanced Learning 3 in that school, nor Epic Learning. For their troubles, they cast their specialist school at +2 caster level, and can gain Epic Learning in that school immediately after they gain Advanced Learning 3 in that school.
-In addition, the Specialist Wizard will gain one extra spell slot per level in which they can prepare a spell of their specialist school, just as before.

*Spontaneous Arcane Casters, such as Sorcerers, should not follow this system. Since their magic is derived from innate talent rather than study, all schools should be open to them, but at a price, as below:

-Sorcerers should gain access to all schools of spells; however, they should never achieve ninth level spells, or even eighth; sixth level is as high as they should go naturally before epic levels. However, they should gain the *potential* to cast spells higher than sixth.
*Sorcererous Potential should be determined by Charisma. The higher the Charisma, the better their ability to cast spells higher than their natural ability would allow them. In this manner, Sorcerers only gain a number of spell uses of levels above seventh as their Charisma grants them, as outlined in the PHB for attribute-related bonus spells.
//For Example: Henneth the 20th level Sorcerer has a Charisma of 26 (22 base, Cloak of Charisma +4). He can cast up to sixth level spells naturally, but due to his 26 Charisma, can cast 1 7th level spell drawn from his 3 7th level spells known and 1 8th level spell drawn from his 3 8th level spells known.
*At epic levels, the Sorcerer can gain epic feats such as the following:
//Epic Potential 1: The Sorcerer can cast up to 3 7th level spells per day, plus any bonus spells granted by his Charisma.
//Epic Potential 2: The Sorcerer can cast up to 3 8th level spells per day, plus any bonus spells granted by his Charisma.
//Epic Potential 3: The Sorcerer can cast up to 3 9th level spells per day, plus any bonus spells granted by his Charisma.

It's a slightly easier path for Sorcerers following this variant, but they have bigger drawbacks, such as no above-sixth spells before epic levels. This should hold true for most Spontaneous Arcane casters.

-Divine Casters
*Okay, here's my deal with divine casters, the Cleric in particular. Even with medium BAB, they can become vicious BEASTS on the battlefield with the proper application of spells, and outshine even the fiercest Fighter with minimal effort. My proposed changes go as follows:

*Divide the Cleric class into two separate classes. The "War Cleric" and the "Cleric Adept". The War Cleric's failings and benefits are as follows.

War Cleric
-Advantages
*Able to wear all armor.
*Proficiency in martial weapons.
*Wizard's bonus feat progression, drawn from the Fighter's bonus feat list.
-Disadvantages
*Can only cast up to 5th level divine spells prior to epic levels.
*Can only gain one Domain.
*Turns Undead at 2/3 their class level, rounded down.
*Still medium BAB.

At epic levels, the War Cleric gain gain the following feat line:
//Divine Favor 1: Allows the War Cleric to cast Divine Spells up to 6th level.
//Divine Favor 2: Allows the War Cleric to cast Divine Spells up to 7th level.
Following this, they never achieve 9th level spells, even though lower level ones can still make them nasty in a fight.

The Cleric Adept
-Advantages
*Able to cast up to 9th level Divine spells.
*Can gain 3 Domains.
*Wizard bonus feat progression, with the following feats:
//Extra Turning, the Divine line (can't remember their names, the ones that use Turn Undead/day to be used to activate).
*Turns Undead at full class level.
-Disadvantages
*No armor proficiencies.
*No weapon proficiencies.
*Low BAB
*Armor interferes with Divine Spellcasting same as Arcane Spell Failure.

This is a rather crappier Cleric for all-around goodness; however, they are a great deal better at Turning Undead and casting the higher-level divine magic. Basically a "divine Wizard".

That's pretty much all I have for now. Probably terrible, terrible ideas, but there they are, out of my head where they'll stop bothering me.

Dryad
2007-09-07, 07:40 PM
Why would you nerf the sorcerer any more than it is already? The number of spells per day make it a great class to play, but the number of spells known makes it hard to decide on your overall use as a caster. The low hit die doesn't improve on this, either.
The fun part of the sorc is: Loads of spell slots. And spontaneous casting; choosing which spell to cast. however, most of the time, you only know one spell of your highest level, in any case.
The Specialist Wizard has one spell per level per day less than a sorcerer, faster spell level progression, bonus feats, casts on intelligence, (which, by chance, also grants loads of skill points, so it's a véry useful stat) ánd has a nearly limitless supply of spells, if showing some determination in learning. True, she has to prepare her spells beforehand, and cannot make as many spur-of-the-moment decisions, but has a far greater versatility, and often a far greater spell power, at the cost of a stunning one slot per spell level.

Not allowing a sorcerer spells beyond sixth level should mean she'd get a ****load of slots, at the very least, and it should increase the save DC for spells tremendously, as she doesn't get higher level spells, and she's relatively easy to save against, in effect.
Ergo: The sorcerer is fine as it is.