Polymorph + Fall Damage + Disintegrate?

[Azther]

Let's suppose I'm fighting the BBEG and manage to Polymorph him into a snail. I pick it up and fly hundreds of feet in the air. While up there I cast Disintegrate on the snail. What exactly happens?

1) Does the snail automatically fail the Dex save and take full damage? (10d6 + 40)

2) Does it also take fall damage after reverting to its original form and crashing on the ground? (10d6 + 40 + 20d6)

3) If I don't cast Disintegrate and simply drop the snail, does it take maximum falling damage (20d6)?

[leogobsin]

Let's suppose I'm fighting the BBEG and manage to Polymorph him into a snail. I pick it up and fly hundreds of feet in the air. While up there I cast Disintegrate on the snail. What exactly happens?

1) Does the snail automatically fail the Dex save and take full damage? (10d6 + 40)

2) Does it also take fall damage after reverting to its original form and crashing on the ground? (10d6 + 40 + 20d6)

3) If I don't cast Disintegrate and simply drop the snail, does it take maximum falling damage (20d6)?

So first of all, there's no official stats for a snail, as far as I'm aware. I'll consider this situation using a Rat, which seems to be the best creature in the Monster Manual for the purposes of this situation (1 HP, Dex +0).

1) No, they would still make the Dex save as normal, but using the Dex score of the polymorphed form, and then take damage based on if they succeed or fail. 1 damage of this would be dealt to the rat form, the rest would carry over to their normal form.

2) I don't think anything in the rules actually says that a creature changing form, as through Polymorph, causes a grapple to be broken (unless the change makes the creature 2 or more sizes larger than the grappler), so it wouldn't automatically fall, though you could certainly drop it. If you did and were at least 200 feet up, it would take 20d6 bludgeoning damage from the fall.

3) Don't see any reason why it wouldn't.

Some things to keep in mind:
Polymorphing into a smaller creature doesn't necessarily make something easier to grapple. A grapple is resisted with an Athletics or Acrobatics roll, those depend only on the creature's ability scores, not it's size.
Getting 200 feet into the air will probably take a few turns, and on each of the BBEG's turn they'll have the ability to try to break out of your grapple with an Athletics or Acrobatics check, so you may not be able to get them up to 200 feet.

[Azther]

So first of all, there's no official stats for a snail, as far as I'm aware. I'll consider this situation using a Rat, which seems to be the best creature in the Monster Manual for the purposes of this situation (1 HP, Dex +0).

1) No, they would still make the Dex save as normal, but using the Dex score of the polymorphed form, and then take damage based on if they succeed or fail. 1 damage of this would be dealt to the rat form, the rest would carry over to their normal form.

2) I don't think anything in the rules actually says that a creature changing form, as through Polymorph, causes a grapple to be broken (unless the change makes the creature 2 or more sizes larger than the grappler), so it wouldn't automatically fall, though you could certainly drop it. If you did and were at least 200 feet up, it would take 20d6 bludgeoning damage from the fall.

3) Don't see any reason why it wouldn't.

Some things to keep in mind:
Polymorphing into a smaller creature doesn't necessarily make something easier to grapple. A grapple is resisted with an Athletics or Acrobatics roll, those depend only on the creature's ability scores, not it's size.
Getting 200 feet into the air will probably take a few turns, and on each of the BBEG's turn they'll have the ability to try to break out of your grapple with an Athletics or Acrobatics check, so you may not be able to get them up to 200 feet.


So is it impossible to turn someone into a Snail?

[leogobsin]

So is it impossible to turn someone into a Snail?

Not necessarily, but if you wanted to you'd probably have to talk to your DM about making up a stat block for a snail.

[JackPhoenix]

So is it impossible to turn someone into a Snail?

Technically, as there aren't any stats for a snail. Your GM may come up with relevant stats on the spot, though.

[Xihirli]

There are stats for a seahorse. That might be useful.

[Azther]

Well the idea was to transform it in something that can't make a Dex save or try to resist being caught. But I understand how that can be a little unbalanced.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Okay the real question about disintegrate and polymorph is thus.

With polymorph you revert to your natural form after dropping to 0 hit points and any excess damage is carried over to your natural form. However with disintegrate if the spell reduces you to 0 hit points you are disintegrated thus one could argue if you drop a poly-morphed creature to 0 hit points via disintegrate it turns to dust rather then revert to its natural form with excess damage carrying over.

[History_buff]

Okay the real question about disintegrate and polymorph is thus.

With polymorph you revert to your natural form after dropping to 0 hit points and any excess damage is carried over to your natural form. However with disintegrate if the spell reduces you to 0 hit points you are disintegrated thus one could argue if you drop a poly-morphed creature to 0 hit points via disintegrate it turns to dust rather then revert to its natural form with excess damage carrying over.

This is exactly what happens. Same thing would happen to a wildshaped Druid.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Another factor is if you polymorph a creature into something weak, it is extremely vulnerable to the sleep spell. Once asleep you automatically fail strength or dex saves.


This is exactly what happens. Same thing would happen to a wildshaped Druid.

Sage Advice admits that it is RAW, but not RAI.

[Azther]

Another factor is if you polymorph a creature into something weak, it is extremely vulnerable to the sleep spell. Once asleep you automatically fail strength or dex saves.



Sage Advice admits that it is RAW, but not RAI.


Interesting, even though it's unlikely to have Sleep prepared at high levels. So you turn the BBEG into a rat, cast sleep on it, fly a thousand feet in the air, cast Disintegrate on him and for the price of one level 1, one level 4 and one level 6 spells, with really only one save failed, you managed to deal

30d6 + 40 damage to the BBEG

Sure it's probably not the best combo out there but it's an interesting experiment, considering a Meteor Swarm does 40d6.

[Crusher]

Interesting, even though it's unlikely to have Sleep prepared at high levels. So you turn the BBEG into a rat, cast sleep on it, fly a thousand feet in the air, cast Disintegrate on him and for the price of one level 1, one level 4 and one level 6 spells, with really only one save failed, you managed to deal

30d6 + 40 damage to the BBEG

Sure it's probably not the best combo out there but it's an interesting experiment, considering a Meteor Swarm does 40d6.

Don't forget that there's another cost to that strategy: time. Doing all that stuff (you'd probably want to just fly up 200' rather than 1000') would take 6-7 turns in addition to the 3 spell slots. If the BBEG isn't alone, you've also taken your wizard out of the fight for quite a while.

Also, its worth noting that preventing this kind of thing is, I suspect, a big part of the reason BBEGs have Legendary Saves.