F/M/T build advice

[alexfitzrose]

AL build, so versatility is important (and who knows what level I would actually reach...)

So, young Axel is currently fighter 1/wizard 1/rogue 1 with 14/14/12/14/12/10 and Shield Master as a feat.

At this point it would be shove then attack with advantage and sneak attack. Wizard is basically magic missile, shield and utility/out-of-combat ritual spells (alarm, find familiar). Perhaps one day he will make it to champion/abjuration/thief?

I know my build is decidedly not optimal and would not stand up to epic encounters, but I would still like to tap into the synergy between the classes. And even if I never get an ability score to 20, there must be feats/ class combinations that would make him useful.

My questions are how far into each class/ subclass would you go and what ASI/ feats would you take? Thanks in advance from this long-time lurker...

[Specter]

Eldritch Knight 5/Arcane Trickster 10/Wizard 5.

That gives you up to 3rd-level spells, the most important Fighter/Rogue goods and up to 5th-level spell slots. Not bad.

[MrStabby]

Tempted to say abjuration wizard next. If you are mixing it up in melee then I would say the ward Is well worth it.

As for champion and thief... I would suggest other archetypes as those are pretty rear-loaded. Thief fast hands is good but you have spells which can cover off some of those needs.

Battlemaster is a pretty front loaded fighter. The manoeuvres last a bit longer if you are interspersing them with shoves and spells. Eldritch knight will give a few more spell slots - so some value there.

On the rogue side you could go with just about anything, although I would suggest focussing on that first level 3 ability. If you are taking expertise in athletics for shoving then you will be pretty good at grapples as well which can work really well with scout.

[djreynolds]

AL build, so versatility is important (and who knows what level I would actually reach...)

So, young Axel is currently fighter 1/wizard 1/rogue 1 with 14/14/12/14/12/10 and Shield Master as a feat.

At this point it would be shove then attack with advantage and sneak attack. Wizard is basically magic missile, shield and utility/out-of-combat ritual spells (alarm, find familiar). Perhaps one day he will make it to champion/abjuration/thief?

I know my build is decidedly not optimal and would not stand up to epic encounters, but I would still like to tap into the synergy between the classes. And even if I never get an ability score to 20, there must be feats/ class combinations that would make him useful.

My questions are how far into each class/ subclass would you go and what ASI/ feats would you take? Thanks in advance from this long-time lurker...

You'll need war caster with a shield. You could Eldritch knight/ arcane trickster/ and wizard. Perfectly viable class.

You need to decide what higher level wizard spells you want to have and when.

So look through the wizard spell list and pick a 4th, 5th, 6th level spell you want to use. Then we can go from there

[Grod_The_Giant]

TBH I think I'd probably go mostly Arcane Trickster, with maybe a small Fighter dip, and pick up Ritual Caster as a feat-- that sounds like it'll get you an awful lot of what you're interested in much faster and smoother.

[Theodoxus]

As a Tier 1 character, it's fine. But you are correct that you'll quickly lose steam in Tier 2 and beyond - to the point that it might actually be best to reformat Axel prior to leveling to 5.

I would offer a slightly different take on the character - but I don't know how solidly set your are on the Champion/Abjuration/Thief concept...

Instead, I would use Xanathar's as your +1, going Fighter (for heavy armor, Con save and either Dueling or Defense fighting style (I like both, but I doubt you want to grab 2 levels of Ranger or Paladin, or 3 levels of Bard for Swords...) Then going Warlock (Hexblade) for Tome goodness of rituals, and EB for damage. Then going Rogue for Swashbuckler (why it was re-written in Xan's, no idea - but thank god, as the synergy is amazing).

F/Lock/Rogue as you already have; Take your next 2 levels in Lock, then 2 levels in rogue - from there, concentrate on whichever path you prefer. But at 7th level, you'll have a rapier and shield, probably plate for 20 AC (21 if you took Defense, higher if you find magical shield and/or armor; all the rituals you can find/learn with downtime of 1st and 2nd level (better than just Wizard). There's no reason to Pact of the Blade, because of sneak attack (which with your AC and Swashbuckler, you can solo things with ease) requiring finesse - so no reason to go better than rapier anyway.

Of course, I'd swap some things around. Str 13 (to wear your starting Chain mail) is really all you need; you could always boost your Str at Warlock 4 or Rogue 4 (whichever you prefer), though with access to Misty Step @ 5th level (3rd level Warlock), it's less of an issue if you're moving at 20' - and there's other ways around the problem; gauntlets of ogre power, belt of giant strength, boots of striding... none are guaranteed in AL of course, but are viable options.

Normally, you'd want to boost your Dex, but with Chain, you don't need to. With Hexblade, you again, don't need to. If you're the consummate rogue, with appropriate skills, you'll want to - so that's up to you. But you will want to start with a 16 Cha, and boost that as often as you can. If you're keeping Shield Master, you can keep Dex lower than normal anyway.

Assuming you don't want any attribute below 10, I'd go with this PB: S 13, D: 13, C: 12, I: 10, W: 11, Ch:16 (with Vhuman bonuses in Con and Cha.

You'd be doing 1d8+5 with dueling (and an additional d6 for sneak, and d6 with Hex (if taken). Hexblade gives you access to Shield (and 2 spell slots, just like your wizard, but they recharge on a short rest instead). So, you could boost your AC to 25 more often than your Wizard, per long rest...

By 7th level, you'd add your Cha (+3) to Initiative as well; have 2d6 sneak (on top of the d6 for Hex), can sneak attack when soloing an opponent, and get a free disengage every round... Through Pact of the Tome, you'd have 3 more cantrips from any class, and the ability to write rituals into the book from any class. You'd also have a better ranged attack (though sadly, no sneak) with EB - though you could still use a bow if you wanted the sneak... The next two levels (8 and 9) could see two more ASIs (if you went Rogue 4/Warlock 4).

Is it optimal? Still not really. You're hurting for HP (11+6+6), and only getting 6 per level after that), but you're tanky and have an amazing AC...

I know it's not exactly what you're looking for, but it would serve you better in Tier 2 play when you get there... so at least something to think about.

[Unoriginal]

Would you rather have a plate armor or not?

That kinda decides which roads you want to take.

[alexfitzrose]

OK, lots of interesting takes and questions, I'll try to answer with my preferences to help narrow down the options.

I definitely imagine heavy armor and shield for good AC, and rapier (sunsword?) to apply sneak damage - so I need to get warcaster ASAP.

At least 5 level of fighter to get 2nd attack. I do like battlemaster for stuff like disarm/ trip and precise strike, but what about the better crit chance of champion with SA? (I know it's not enough to keep up with DPR build, just bear with my weighing-of-lesser-options)

Where do yall recommend I stop fighter, level 6? 8? Champion gives Remarkable athlete to help with saves, is Indomitable worth going to 9?

Knowing I'd have limited slots per day, my preferred spell list would build up to something like
3rd- counterspell/ dispel, fly, fireball(?)
4th- polymorph
5th- telekenisis/ wall of force
6th- disintegrate or chain lightning (would need to get to 13 in wizard, which seems like it squeezes out the rogue subclass at 3)

Since I have never taken a spellcasting class beyond 3 or 4th level spells I have to ask just how powerful are 5th and 6th level spells?

Thank you all so much for even taking the time to read, let alone reply.

[alexfitzrose]

Also, I'm hesitant to go warlock because I'm really unsure of those mechanics. What if I swap out wizard for sorcerer and get spontaneous casting, then take subtle (avoid complications from somatic spells) and empowered (since my spell DCs would be easier to beat without maxed INT)? I don't mind the limited spell list (and losing ritual casting) but I suspect I would miss the arcane ward. THoughts?

P.s. I ended up going down the build guide rabbit hole the last few days and I may be more mixed up than ever. At this point I'm thinking of just playing a lore bard and going single class all the way to 20...

[Arkhios]

Also, I'm hesitant to go warlock because I'm really unsure of those mechanics. What if I swap out wizard for sorcerer and get spontaneous casting, then take subtle (avoid complications from somatic spells) and empowered (since my spell DCs would be easier to beat without maxed INT)? I don't mind the limited spell list (and losing ritual casting) but I suspect I would miss the arcane ward. THoughts?

P.s. I ended up going down the build guide rabbit hole the last few days and I may be more mixed up than ever. At this point I'm thinking of just playing a lore bard and going single class all the way to 20...

"Spontaneous" casting isn't really a thing in 5th edition. If you compare to 3rd edition, every spellcaster is "spontaneous" in 5th.

The spellcasting difference between "always known" and "prepared daily" is vanishingly small, and is not fit to be differentiated by terms of old editions.

[Crgaston]

P.s. I ended up going down the build guide rabbit hole the last few days and I may be more mixed up than ever. At this point I'm thinking of just playing a lore bard and going single class all the way to 20...

Actually, a Valor Bard can hit the F/M/T aesthetic pretty well on the head. Pick a background with Thieves' tools, and you can fight, sneak, pick locks and cast spells.

[xen]

Actually, a Valor Bard can hit the F/M/T aesthetic pretty well on the head. Pick a background with Thieves' tools, and you can fight, sneak, pick locks and cast spells.
Seconded

Or College of Swords.

Either seems to have what OP is looking for. Swords would give a few more combat options.

Expertise in stealth/thieves tools, extra attack feature, spells, magical secrets for the blasty spells you like.... playable in all tiers. Take ritual caster wizard if you really want some extra wizardy spells.

[alexfitzrose]

OK, one last check in before I take him to a table. Fighter (battlemaster)/ wizard (abjuration)/ rogue (maybe only to 2, possibly thief. What array would work best?

Option A (Str build)
16/14/12/14/10/8
*Heavy armor (I would just completely avoid stealth checks) and a shield amd Defense fighting style and Shield = tank with low HP *Expertise in Athletics for Shield master shove then Sneak Attack, using finesse weapons but with Str modifier
*+2 Int modifier, not bad but I would focus on spells without rolls to make

Option B (Dex build)
10/16/14/14/12/8
*Wears leather (so much stealthier) but lower AC until I get ASIs (that are very delayed by multiclassing)
*Gets to invest ASIs into Dex, so better initiative and saves
*Low Str means less effective shove
*Still dumping Cha which feels weird for some reason...

Option C (balanced build)
13/13/12/13/12/12 (plus 2 +1 to place, but where? Something will fall behind, maybe Int if I completely stay away from spells with rolls?)
*Meets multiclassing requirements but does not dump any stats
*Still reaches +2 mods to key attributes but only a few ways to ASIs to improve them. Will I regret choosing a balanced stat approach in a build that is already hamstrung by multiclassing or will I be able to make enough rolls throughout a session (it is only a 5% difference, right?)...
*I can at least try Charisma skills now, which adds to my versatility

Thoughts?