Scout/Revised Ranger multiclass

[JAL_1138]

About to start a new game in which I'll be playing a Wood Elf Scout Rogue/Revised Ranger multiclass. Current stats are 8-17-14-12-14-10. Current plan is to start with three levels of Scout to get Nature and Survival as additional Expertises, then switch to Revised Ranger and take Gloomstalker as the subclass. Where I'm having a bit of trouble is the breakpoints other than "at least three levels of Rogue" and "at least three levels of Ranger." Also divided on feats, between Elven Accuracy, Sharpshooter, and Crossbow Expert--I can probably only squeeze in one or two, and what order to take them in is also up for grabs (particularly since I don't know how many levels we'll run for).

So, any thoughts? Where to break and when? Which feats and in what order? Any input appreciated.

[Crgaston]

I’d go:
Rogue 3
Ranger 2 for Rangery goodness and archery fighting style,
1 more Rogue for the ASI
3 more Ranger for Gloomstalker, ASI, and Extra Attack.
Then at least 1 Rogue for Uncanny Dodge. After that it’s just dependent on what the character/ party would benefit more from.

As for ASI’s, I’d prioritize Dex18>XBX>SS

The Dex 18 could come from Elven Accuracy which would benefit you a good bit if you can take advantage of darkness or hiding regularly, although taking XBX at CL 6 isn’t a bad idea either since you’ll be postponing Extra Attack for so long.

[Ganymede]

The Revised Ranger, being UA content, is not really designed with multiclassing in mind. Mixing it with another class is likely to result in some wonky interactions and limit the value of your playtest data.

[JAL_1138]

I’d go:
Rogue 3
Ranger 2 for Rangery goodness and archery fighting style,
1 more Rogue for the ASI
3 more Ranger for Gloomstalker, ASI, and Extra Attack.
Then at least 1 Rogue for Uncanny Dodge. After that it’s just dependent on what the character/ party would benefit more from.

As for ASI’s, I’d prioritize Dex18>XBX>SS

The Dex 18 could come from Elven Accuracy which would benefit you a good bit if you can take advantage of darkness or hiding regularly, although taking XBX at CL 6 isn’t a bad idea either since you’ll be postponing Extra Attack for so long.

Postponing Extra Attack was one of my concerns, along with not getting the Gloomstalker features online until too late. I was kinda thinking of going straight Ranger for 6 levels after the 3 levels of Scout--but I do like that your method nets an ASI/feat a level earlier. Thanks for the suggestion!

[ImproperJustice]

I think you are on the right track. Revised Ranger 6, seems to be an excellent jumping off point for other things.

[CTurbo]

Sorry I'd go Ranger 5 first, then Rogue from there.

I think if you go 3/3, you're going to feel really weak from levels 4-7

[JAL_1138]

Sorry I'd go Ranger 5 first, then Rogue from there.

I think if you go 3/3, you're going to feel really weak from levels 4-7

Possibly, but otherwise I'd likely end up not taking Nature and Survival until level 8, which is...weeeird. Scout grants Nature and Survival free, but only if you don't already have them (although it still gives Expertise if you do). I kinda hate passing up two extra skill profs on a skillmonkey character. Gloomstalker would help a little on the 3/3 split, since it gives an extra attack on the first round.

[Crgaston]

Possibly, but otherwise I'd likely end up not taking Nature and Survival until level 8, which is...weeeird. Scout grants Nature and Survival free, but only if you don't already have them (although it still gives Expertise if you do). I kinda hate passing up two extra skill profs on a skillmonkey character. Gloomstalker would help a little on the 3/3 split, since it gives an extra attack on the first round.

I think you’ll be more than fine with Sneak Attack+Hunters Mark at 5 and then XBX at 6.
With 17 Dex and Archery style
L5: +8 to hit, (1d6 Hand XB + 2d6 SA +1d6 HM) +3

L6: +8, (4d6+3) + (2d6+3)

L7: as above, but with GS on 1st round an additional 2d6+1d8+3.

L8: bump Dex

L9: Extra Attack
Your opening round (probably with advantage of you set it up right, and assuming everything hits)
+9 to hit, 10d6+1d8+ 16.

This is a good damage progression.
The other players sometimes give me the “OMG so OP” side-eye after that 1st round nova, and we only just now got to L5. But they are not optimizers either, so ymmv.

Your first priority in a magic item should definitely be Bracers of Archery, which adds +2 damage to each hit and are only Uncommon, so getting them by L5 shouldn’t be too hard.

Also, regarding Nature and Survival, there is a rule in the PHB that if you get a skill that you already have, you can pick any different one. So there’s that.

[JAL_1138]

I think you’ll be more than fine with Sneak Attack+Hunters Mark at 5 and then XBX at 6.
With 17 Dex and Archery style
L5: +8 to hit, (1d6 Hand XB + 2d6 SA +1d6 HM) +3

L6: +8, (4d6+3) + (2d6+3)

L7: as above, but with GS on 1st round an additional 2d6+1d8+3.

L8: bump Dex

L9: Extra Attack
Your opening round (probably with advantage of you set it up right, and assuming everything hits)
+9 to hit, 10d6+1d8+ 16.

This is a good damage progression.
The other players sometimes give me the “OMG so OP” side-eye after that 1st round nova, and we only just now got to L5. But they are not optimizers either, so ymmv.

Your first priority in a magic item should definitely be Bracers of Archery, which adds +2 damage to each hit and are only Uncommon, so getting them by L5 shouldn’t be too hard.

Also, regarding Nature and Survival, there is a rule in the PHB that if you get a skill that you already have, you can pick any different one. So there’s that.

Scout explicitly has an "if you don't already have them" clause on those skills, unlike the PHB backgrounds rule. The way both I and the DM read it, you don't get to swap in others due to that (specific beats general).

Bracers of Archery don't work with crossbows (longbow and shortbow only), so if the DM hands those out, Crossbow Expert is either nearly wasted (since if I'm using the bracers, I'm not using a hand crossbow) or the Bracers are (since if I'm using a hand crossbow I'm not getting a bonus from the bracers). Can't count on finding them either.

XBX is and obvious feat choice because a bonus-action attack is just plain powerful, gives another chance on Sneak Attack, and it offsets Extra Attack delay, but it really, really clashes with the flavor I'm going for with the character. Tough call...

I'm thinking currently I might go
Rogue 3 (Scout),
Ranger 2,
Rogue 1 (Elven Accuracy--use bonus action Hide and try to grab triple-d20 advantage, Dex to 18),
Ranger 5 (Gloomstalker, Extra Attack, Sharpshooter or Dex 20, Greater Favored Enemy, Wis save proficiency from Gloomstalker 7),
then the rest in Rogue.

Good/Bad/Terrible?

[Crgaston]

Sorry about the bad advice.... didn’t realize the Bracers didn’t work with crossbows.

That is certainly a reasonable reading of the Survivalist feature. I’d argue it’s an overly restrictive one, but sounds like you and your DM are fine with it, so, cool.

So are you going for a longbow over Hand Crossbow? I am not crazy about the “Hand crossbow scout” aesthetic either. (Unless you’re a drow, but that’s a whole different conversation.)

The rest of the progression looks good. The synergy between these two archetypes is strong enough that you would have to actually TRY to muck it up irredeemably.

I do think that without XBX you’re going to suffer a bit delaying extra Attack until L9.

If it is just an aesthetics thing, maybe see if your DM will let you fluff it as Shortbow Master or something? Keep the hand XBow range increments if you’re using rhe bonus action attack, but otherwise identical? Same damage die, after all.,

Regardless, it’ll be a fun build!

[Haldir]

If you're planning to play sneaky then you'll get a ton of mileage out of Elven Accuracy, which is just too damn good and should be worked in any Elven attack roll build.

[JAL_1138]

Sorry about the bad advice.... didn’t realize the Bracers didn’t work with crossbows.

That is certainly a reasonable reading of the Survivalist feature. I’d argue it’s an overly restrictive one, but sounds like you and your DM are fine with it, so, cool.

So are you going for a longbow over Hand Crossbow? I am not crazy about the “Hand crossbow scout” aesthetic either. (Unless you’re a drow, but that’s a whole different conversation.)

The rest of the progression looks good. The synergy between these two archetypes is strong enough that you would have to actually TRY to muck it up irredeemably.

I do think that without XBX you’re going to suffer a bit delaying extra Attack until L9.

If it is just an aesthetics thing, maybe see if your DM will let you fluff it as Shortbow Master or something? Keep the hand XBow range increments if you’re using rhe bonus action attack, but otherwise identical? Same damage die, after all.,

Regardless, it’ll be a fun build!

No worries, I thought Bracers worked with crossbows for a good while until I ran into it on a crossbow-Valor Bard in League. You kind of expect them to work for archery in general, with that name.

I'll talk with the DM on crossbow expert, might be able to sort out some fluff and/or crunch issues with that. It does compete for the bonus action; I'm likely going to get a lot of mileage out of Cunning Action. But paired with Hunter's Mark and possibly Sharpshooter it's almost too good to pass up. EDIT: I'd rather figure out the fluff than modify the feat if I go with that option, and the DM isn't keen on changing the crunch anyhow. Plus, without it I'm still on par with standard Rogue Sneak Attack up through level 7 via Hunter's Mark, so it's more of a higher-level issue.


If you're planning to play sneaky then you'll get a ton of mileage out of Elven Accuracy, which is just too damn good and should be worked in any Elven attack roll build.

Between Rogue's expertise in stealth and bonus action hide, Wood Elf's ability to hide when lightly obscured, and Gloomstalker's invisibility to darkvision, and Pass Without Trace for +10 stealth, I'm definitely planning to go the sneaky route. And if I get high enough level to switch back to Rogue from Ranger, it really boosts crit chance on Sneak Attack...

[poopyloop]

You're doing a build similar to what I've been playing most recently
I'm also a wood elf, but I'm triple-classing into Revised Ranger (gloomstalker), Assassin Rogue, and Battlemaster Fighter
Started Rogue 1 then took 4 levels of Ranger. We just got to lv 5 last session, and I was feeling pretty average as a character, but doing 3 attacks on round 1, 1 being boosted by sneak attack and gloomstalker force damage, I finally feel really strong. Crossbow expert really put it over the top for me, feels like I'm straight level 5 more or less.
I would say crossbow expert is a pretty high priority just for the BA attack. If you go straight to 5 gloomstalker I think you will be happy with that, then go to rogue 4 for elven accuracy

You might feel a little weak at levels 1 and 2, but once gloomstalker comes online at 3, the extra force-boosted attack is awesome (plus RR gloomstalker is very powerful in general), and level 4 xbx, it's just great

[sightlessrealit]

I'm doing a semi similar build though with some differances.

V-Human with rolled stats. 10,18,18,13,18,14
Character is currently lvl5 R-Ranger Gloomstalker with Crossbow Expert & Sharpshooter
Going 1 more level in Ranger for Fiends (cause of setting reasons)
Than rest in rogue for next 12 levels.

[unusualsuspect]

I can't speak to purist min-maxing, as that was explicitly not my intention when creating the character, but I can say with absolute anecdotal certainty that the Scout/Revised Ranger is a very potent combination that can be useful inside and outside of combat.

Personally, I went Rogue 1 (for the juicy extra skill proficiency over the extra 1 HP overall), added Revised Ranger 1 (because the campaign/party really needed a tracker), took Rogue to 3 (get that sneak attack going plus giving me interesting options with my bonus action), and has so far gotten to Ranger 3, eventually planning on Revised Ranger 5 ( for the ASI + Extra Attack, though I suppose I could be convinced to go to Revised Ranger 6 - Favored Enemy (Humanoid) is useful, but a bit more versatility would be nice).

I went with Scout, so I could emphasize my tracking and mobility (we have a pure assassin rogue in the party, don't want to step on toes), and Gloom Stalker, because I wanted Darkness to be an ally (in case the party ever has to deal with darkness).

The damage is sufficient (2d6 sneak + 1d6 Hunter's Mark 3 encounters/day just about equals 3d6 sneak attack I'd be getting from Rogue) and the Ranger 2 Archery focus means you've got an excellent chance to hit (I easily have the highest attack bonus in our group - partially because I can't help min/maxing attributes a bit, partially because full proficiency + good dex + archery combat style = really good chance to hit). Adding both Dexterity and Wisdom to Initiative, plus advantage to Initiative, means you're almost always going to have the 1st turn advantage-on-attacks benefit and, consequently, sneak attack burst damage only overmatched by an assassin's surprise round.

So combat-wise, it's probably not the MOST potent combination, but it holds its own enough that you aren't a liability. Hunters Mark means you can hit hard even when an enemy isn't vulnerable to sneak attack (rare), and Sneak Attack means when you do hit, even without Hunter's Mark, you hit reasonably hard.

Skill-wise, you end up with exceptional skill proficiencies (starting as a rogue, it'd be hard not to be) with Expertise in 2 skills of your choice AND Survival and Knowledge (Nature). I've got all the proficiencies I need to be rogue-like (Stealth, thieves tools, deception), the party face (Persuasion, Performance), and a few other things besides.

Current plan is to go right to Ranger 5 (get the ASI and Extra Attack) then return to Rogue for good. I've actively avoided getting an ASI so far, because despite my best intentions, my character is by far the most min-maxed character in the campaign, and alas, I need to avoid overshadowing our pure rogue (who, after an ASI, has a Dex of 16).

I'm not a Wood Elf, mostly because my DM has some homebrew races and asked us to play them (I play the closest thing, a human-variant that has most of the Wood Elf's racial traits), and I put a fair amount of points into intelligence at the request of the DM (we didn't, and still don't, have an int-based character in the party). There's a bit of room for optimization, but honestly it isn't really necessary for a non-optimized party.

Sharpshooter and XBow Master would both be powerful benefits to get, though less so than a purist fighter build (with 2 attacks and +2 to attack, you're not likely to miss with both, even at -5 to hit for each, but still risks losing out on the 2d6 minimum Sneak Attack). Going for ASIs earlier isn't a bad idea, either, but I've yet to feel anything but a valuable member to the party

I'm a face, I look great in lace, I kill stuff with grace, and I'm awesome in the natural place. What more could I ask?