Idea for the apocalyptic spell

[mesc]

Hello, I was reading spell blade tennis, and it gave me an idea on making an apocalyptic world destruction spell combo, and with that idea in my head I made up this combo. I am not sure if this combo actually works. If it does not work or you see any improvements that can be made, please inform me.


Needed Feats:
- Snow Casting (Frost Burn p. 50)
- Empower (PHB p.93)
- Maximize (PHB p. 97)
- Born of the 3 thunders (Complete Arcane p. 76)
- Explosive spell (Complete Arcane p. 79)
- Twin spell (Complete Arcane p. 84)
- Repeat spell (Complete Arcane p. 82)
- Fell Animate (Libris Morris p. 26)
- Fell drain (Libris Mortis p. 27)
- Ocular spell (Lords of Madness p. 181)
- Wounding spell
- Node Spellcasting (Champions of ruin p.25)
- Metanode spell (Champions of ruin p.25)

Needed Spells:
- Spell Enhancer (The spell compendium version p. 198)
- Apocalypse from the sky (Book of vile darkness p. 85)
- Some other defensive spells to make you immune to apocalypse from the sky

Needed Items:
- Spellblade of spell enhancer (Player's guide to faerun p. 120)
- An artifact

The Combo:

1 year preperation using Spellblade tennis. This combo will allow you to obtain a really high caster level and spell DC.
Spellblades make you immune to 1 spell and redirects it to a new target on your next turn as a free action.

Spell enhancer is a spell that makes the next spell you cast at +2 caster level and +1 to DC. It is a personal spell, however ocular spell metamagic allows you to store into your eye, and target another creature.

Buy/make a spellblade that makes you immune to spell enhancer.

You and your ally use spellblades of spell enhancer
You cast an ocular spell enhancer, the spell is stored in your eye, but it is not absorbed by the spellblade since it does not target you. (The repeating and twin metamagic feats can be applied to allow the bonuses to stack faster.) You then release the ocular spell on your ally, who will absorb the spell, and redirect it back at you the next turn, who will also absorb it.

You continue to cast ocular spell enhancers and keep trading the spell enhancers between you and the ally. Keep doing this for around 1 year. When your ally has absorbed a high enough amount of spell enhancers and will redirect it at you, drop your spellblade, in order to lose the immunity to spell enhancer and prepare to receive the thousands of spell enhancers. With that, your CL can reach 4,000 and your spell DC can reach 2,000. (Bonuses of the same type do not stack, however the wording of spell enhancer does not state it is a bonus). Once you have received them, you then begin to cast Apocalypse from the sky

For more information, search spellblade tennis http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?151109-D-amp-D-3-5-Blowing-up-the-Action-Economy-with-Spellblade-Tennis

Another alternative to spell blade tennis brought up by Anthrowhale is to use alternate castings of consumptive field in order to raise caster level. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?527654-Death-Cults-a-BBEG-guide

The Apocalypse
You will cast apocalypse from the sky that are applied with the following metamagic feats (similar to locate city bomb trick), and the snowcasting feat to give it a cold descriptor.
- Energy Substitution [lightning] (to change the spell to a lightning descriptor) +0
- Born of the three thunders (to allow a reflex save) +0
- Explosive spell (to deal a lot of damage) +2
- Maximize (to improve the base damage) +3
- Fell Drain (to raise wights) +2
- Fell Animate (to raise zombies) +3
- Twin (to let the spell be cast twice killing twice as much people) +4
- Repeating (to let the spell that casts twice, be casted twice on your next turn again) +3
Total metamagic level increase: +17
Optional: Echoing spell can also be added to continuously destroy the planet. Spell Thematics can also be added to make your spell cooler

The Effects:
If you successfully cast this 1 day long spell, you essentially kill off 90% of the population in the planet. With your CL of around 4,000+, apocalypse from the sky would have a radius of 40,000 miles. This should probably be enough to affect the whole world. Apocalypse from the sky does 10d6 points of damage, maximize spell makes it 60 damage. Fell drain bestows 1 negative level. Wounding spell makes them bleed for 1 damage every round after. Twin spell allows the spell to activate twice this turn, and repeating combined with the twin spell activates the spell 2 more times next turn. The base damage would then be two (30 lightning and 30 sonic) damage and 2 negative levels this turn, and two (30 lightning + 30 sonic + 2 wounding spell) damage and 2 negative levels the next turn, dealing a total of 242 damage, 4 negative levels and 4 more damage every round after (with no save). 242 damage is already enough to kill of majority of the population, but as an evil doomsday spell, you also need to kill off the heroes of the world. If they fail the reflex save of born of three thunders (a DC of 2,000)Explosive spell ejects each creature out of the area of effect and does 1d6 points of damage per 10 ft moved until they hit an obstacle and take 1d6 more damage.

In the end this dreadful combo creates 4 powerful instances of raining doom, dealing 60 dmg, 1 negative level (no save) and 1 bleeding wound each time, and everyone who fails a fortitude save (DC 2,000) is stunned from the devastating effects of this spell (born of 3 thunders). In addition, they must succeed on a reflex save (DC 2,000) or be pushed by powerful explosions, taking 1d6 dmg per 10 ft. moved and be knocked prone.

Most importantly, to give justice to the word apocalypse in the name of the spell, each time the spell activates, you create up to 8,000 HD of zombies from the creatures killed by the spell, as long as their HD does not exceed twice of yours. This can potentially raise up to 32,000 HD of zombies. You can however only control up to 16,000 HD, so the other half become uncontrolled and attack randomly.

The Aftermath:
For a full 12 seconds, Lightning and thunder cover the entire world, creating a thanos level disaster. Home, family and safety will become forgotten words. Races and their civilizations will fall, become extinct and forgotten. Majority of everyone, even the most powerful of this world, may have died from this apocalyptic spell. Only the lucky ones who were in anti-magic field, in other defensive spells or casted divination to learn of this dangerous event and prepare for it can survive the rain and explosions of doom. But just when they thought they survived this disaster, the fallen heroes of this world begin to rise as zombies, and a day after, millions of wights rise up as well, which marks the start of the true apocalypse.

You who have successfully casted this spell, would have transcended to Godhood (from the sheer amount of xp you gain, you should have the strength of a god or you may actually immediately become a god for doing this diabolical act), and shall lead the most powerful and vast undead legion history has seen. You would succeed in where your predecessors and evil gods have failed in. But all is not over, your goal is to conquer the universe. And so you begin your 1 year preparations again, waiting for the time when you shall open a gate to another plane, marching with your undead army into it, and destroy it as well.

The issues:
This character idea actually has a lot of issues.
- This idea all relies on the abuse of wording of the ocular spell. Treating it that ocular spell can work on personal spells like spell enhancer since their target is you and not personal. If that does not work, you need to research a new spell similar to spell enhancer but can target others.
- One of the biggest would be the sheer amount of metamagic needed. As of now, i can only think of 3 ways of making it possible. Through the artificer metamagic spelltrigger while wielding a staff of apocalypse from the sky, or a normal caster build with spell dancer, or the metaphysical spell shaper from book of erotic fantasies (third party)
- Another problem would be surviving the spell as well. Apocalypse from the sky makes you take the damage as well, and take an insane amount of ability damage or drain. This is a lot easier to deal with since you can cast many defensive spells before hand.
- Another large problem is the artifact needed to cast this spell
- And lastly, there is another problem that may or may not happen, but it is the reason why no one conquered the world yet. Casting this extremely evil world shaking spell would make you the enemy of the world. A lot of divination spells would flag you, and you may end up having a crazy amount of paladins/ clerics chasing you

[mesc]

Does anyone have an idea on what build this spell combo would work best on? The major problem is the number of metamagic feats needed and their costs, and right now i can only think of using an artificer, spell dancer or the metaphysical spell shaper from book of erotic fantasies. Is there any other viable option for this?

[Warchon]

I don't know enough about these features to weigh in on the rules, but I know this much:
This is fun to make just to see if you can. But if you try to cast it, be prepared for your DM to say you're just plain trying to absorb too much raw magic and need to roll an ever-increasing will save with each iteration or lose control of the spell and/or die.

[Mordaedil]

How many feats is this? I think you need some qualifiers for a few of these as well.

[mesc]

How many feats is this? I think you need some qualifiers for a few of these as well.

I have not actually made a build yet. I have merely made a spell combo similar to the locate city bomb trick. As for actually building a character that can do this, im currently working on it right now. Im planning to do a wizard with spell dancer, and adding chaos shuffle do get the necessary feats. Spell dancer however would require even more useless prerequisite feats, so if I am unable to achieve it, I will probably go with an artificer route.

Help on the build making would be very much appreciated. If you can succesfully create a build capable of the combo, please post it here.

[Anthrowhale]

It's easier to jack your caster level with alternating castings of persistent (greater) consumptive field. See here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?527654-Death-Cults-a-BBEG-guide).

[mesc]

Thanks for the idea that works a lot faster

[Andor13]

The Effects:
If you successfully cast this 1 day long spell, you essentially kill off 90% of the population in the planet. With your CL of around 4,000+, apocalypse from the sky would have a radius of 40,000 miles. This should probably be enough to affect the whole world. Apocalypse from the sky does 10d6 points of damage, maximize spell makes it 60 damage. Fell drain bestows 1 negative level. Twin spell allows the spell to activate twice this turn, and repeating combined with the twin spell activates the spell 2 more times next turn. The base damage would then be two (30 lightning and 30 sonic) and 2 negative levels this turn, damage this turn, and two (30 lightning and 30 sonic) damage and 2 negative levels the next turn, dealing a total of 240 damage and 4 negative levels (with no save). 240 damage is already enough to kill of majority of the population, but as an evil doomsday spell, you also need to kill off the heroes of the world. Explosive spell ejects each creature out of the area of effect and does 1d6 points of damage per 10 ft moved, if they fail the reflex save of born of three thunders (a DC of 2,000).

Well, the bad news is, you're not getting your army of the undead.

The spell has a radius of 40,000 miles. The Earth (for comparison, and most D&D worlds are roughly Earth sized) has a circumference of slightly less than 25,000 miles. So that spell area covers the entire globe, with considerable overlap. Everyone who fails that DC 2000 save is getting ejected into orbit. And taking 1d6 per 10' traveled, or somewhere between 91,000 and 22 million d6 of damage depending on where they are in relation to the casting point, and how you define the axis of ejection. So, while the spell might technically bring them back as Zombies and Wights, you have unfortunately reduced the corpses to a slurry of quarks leaving your planet at relativistic speeds. Probably looks pretty from a distance though.

That is a lensman class planet killer.

[Remuko]

Well, the bad news is, you're not getting your army of the undead.

The spell has a radius of 40,000 miles. The Earth (for comparison, and most D&D worlds are roughly Earth sized) has a circumference of slightly less than 25,000 miles. So that spell area covers the entire globe, with considerable overlap. Everyone who fails that DC 2000 save is getting ejected into orbit. And taking 1d6 per 10' traveled, or somewhere between 91,000 and 22 million d6 of damage depending on where they are in relation to the casting point, and how you define the axis of ejection. So, while the spell might technically bring them back as Zombies and Wights, you have unfortunately reduced the corpses to a slurry of quarks leaving your planet at relativistic speeds. Probably looks pretty from a distance though.

That is a lensman class planet killer.

i was thinking this too. I was like "ejects from the spell area? Isnt that the entire planet?" lmao.

[Malimar]

Well, the bad news is, you're not getting your army of the undead.

The spell has a radius of 40,000 miles. The Earth (for comparison, and most D&D worlds are roughly Earth sized) has a circumference of slightly less than 25,000 miles. So that spell area covers the entire globe, with considerable overlap. Everyone who fails that DC 2000 save is getting ejected into orbit. And taking 1d6 per 10' traveled, or somewhere between 91,000 and 22 million d6 of damage depending on where they are in relation to the casting point, and how you define the axis of ejection. So, while the spell might technically bring them back as Zombies and Wights, you have unfortunately reduced the corpses to a slurry of quarks leaving your planet at relativistic speeds. Probably looks pretty from a distance though.

That is a lensman class planet killer.

Reminds me of the line from What If, "You would just stop being biology and start being physics."

That said, 1/20th of the population will succeed at each reflex save regardless of its DC. A (small) proportion of the population will succeed at all four reflex saves. .000625% of the population is... at least a few hundred folks, depending on the world's population. You'll get some zombies.

[mesc]

Well, the bad news is, you're not getting your army of the undead.

The spell has a radius of 40,000 miles. The Earth (for comparison, and most D&D worlds are roughly Earth sized) has a circumference of slightly less than 25,000 miles. So that spell area covers the entire globe, with considerable overlap. Everyone who fails that DC 2000 save is getting ejected into orbit. And taking 1d6 per 10' traveled, or somewhere between 91,000 and 22 million d6 of damage depending on where they are in relation to the casting point, and how you define the axis of ejection. So, while the spell might technically bring them back as Zombies and Wights, you have unfortunately reduced the corpses to a slurry of quarks leaving your planet at relativistic speeds. Probably looks pretty from a distance though.

That is a lensman class planet killer.

Well not necessarily, the full effects of the feat explosive is

"An explosive spell ejects any creature caught in its area to the nearest edge of its effect and knocks the creature prone if it fails its saving throw against the spell. For example, an explosive fireball moves all creatures in its area who fail their saves at least 20 feet from the center of the effect, while an explosive lightning bolt moves targets 5 feet to either side of the stroke. Any creature moved in this manner takes an additional 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet moved. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. If some obstacle intervenes to prevent the blasted creature from moving to the nearest edge of the effect, the creature stops at the obstacle but takes 1d6 points of damage from striking the barrier (in addition to any damage taken from being forcibly moved to the barrier). Explosive Spell can only be applied to spells that allow Reflex saves and affect some area (a cone, line, or burst). An explosive spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell's actual level."

meaning in cities with lots of buildings (where the apocalypse really matters) people inside the buildings will just hit the roof and take a lot less damage, and afterwards you can raise them as zombies and command them to kill the remaining survivors, who hid in magical defenses.

[Foreverknight]

1 year?!!?!

[mesc]

1 year?!!?!

The spell blade tennis version requires not necessarily require 1 year of preperation, just a long time (depending on how large the area of effect you want the spell to be, and depending on how many times you can cast ocular spell). If you wish to really quicken the preperation time, you can add more allies who can cast ocular spell enhancer. The same caster level i have mentioned can be done in around 1 month, if you have 11 other allies who can also cast ocular spell enhancer.

However, Anthrowhale gave an even quicker method of acquiring caster levels, alternate castings of consumptive fields. Allowing it to be done in around 2 days.

[Mordaedil]

Let's see here... Incantatrix seems like an absolute necessity for entry since it gives you 4 free metamagic feats over the course of the 10 levels, but it comes with a feat cost to entry, so you get maybe 3 extra feats, which is still 1 more than a pure wizard and some extra metamagic goodness along with it.

We can't start with Energy substitution, born of the three thunders, Twin spell or Repeat spell, so that's a thing, but any other metamagic feats will work. For simplicity let us assume a human wizard to give us as many feats to play with as possible.

Level 1: Max concentration, arcana and spellcraft. Spend some in knowledge dungeoneering and knowledge nature.
Level 1 feat: Snowcasting
Human feat: Empower Spell
Level 3 feat: Iron Will
Level 5: Max out arcana and spellcraft, if nothing else.
Level 5 wizard feat: Energy substition (electricity)
Enter Incantrix: lose a school of magic; gain metamagic.
Level 6 feat: Born of the Three Thunders.
Level 1 incantatrix: Maximize spell
Level 9 feat: Ocular Spell
Level 4 incantatrix: Fell drain
Level 12 feat: Twin spell
Level 7 incantatrix: Repeat spell
Level 15 feat: Explosive spell
Level 10 incantatrix: Fell animate

Wow, that's a lot of metamagic.

But you now get to reduce spell level by 1 for all of these, reducing the metamagic cost to 11. Get Arcane Thesis as your 18th level feat for Apocalypse from the Sky and now we're talking. Now you can cast this 9th level spell by only needing a 12th level spell slot, if we use the theory that Arcane Thesis can reduce metamagic cost below 0. (and if not, well, then we at least reached 5.) I'd recommend chosing a flaw to so we can take Practical Metamagic (or delay taking 1 metamagic to get your 10th wizard level to give you another metamagic) to reduce twin spell's cost by 1 further. And now we're talking either an 11th level spell slot or a 13th level, depending on your DM's interpretation.

Also I should point that someone said 1/20th of the population would survive, but that isn't strictly true, because it repeats and twins, now we're talking less than 0.01% survival chance.

[mesc]

Incantatrix is a great idea mordaedil. I didn't know there was another class that had the same ability as the artificer.

The Build:
A human Wizard 5/ Incantatrix 10
incantatrix has metamagic spelltrigger, meaning you can simply buy/create a staff of apocalypse from the sky and expend a lot of its charges in order to apply all the needed metamagic feats. If you do not wish to spend a lot of money, an elf wizard 7/ incantatrix 10/ spell dancer 1 also works if you use chaos shuffle to obtain the prereq feats of spell dancer, and use it's ability to reduce metamagic costs to zero.

Wizard 5/incantatrix 10
Total Feats Gained: 14
From level: 6
From Incantatrix: 4
From Wizard: 2 (scribe scroll +1 metamagic feat)
From flaws: 2 (Murky-Eyed and Noncombatant)
Human: 1

Feat Prgression
Level 1: Snow casting, Empower spell, Maximize spell, ocular spell, Scribe scroll
Level 3: Energy substitution (electricity)
Level 5: Born of the 3 thunders
Level 6: Fell drain, Fell Animate
Level 9: Repeat spell, Twin spell
Level 12: Explosive spell, Wounding spell
Level 15: Craft Staff (not needed if using spell dancer), Optional feat

Iron will can be obtained from otyugh hole, and adds more lore to as why you would cast something like this in the first place.

Prerequisite skills:
Knowledge Arcana (8)
Knowledge Nature (4)
Knowledge Dungeonering (4)
Knowledge History (4)
Concentration (4)
Spell craft (8)

Constitution must be 13

If you would want to gain caster levels really quick, you can follow Anthrowhale's idea, but this would require even more feats (DMM on a lot of feats). Using Nodes can also lessen the total metamagic cost, but will require 2 feats.

[Anthrowhale]

Iron Will is "free" since it can be acquired via Otyugh Hole. Metanode spell can also provide a steep discount on metamagic.

[Anthrowhale]

You might also look into Wounding Spell for extra apocalypse power. Many things surviving the initial onslaught will bleed out.

[mesc]

You might also look into Wounding Spell for extra apocalypse power. Many things surviving the initial onslaught will bleed out.

Thanks for the help again :smallsmile:
The wounding spell adds onto the despair of this spell, and creates the scenario of surviving helpless clerics who dont have enough spells or time to save everyone.

The metanode spell seems very interesting and can even be added to plot. But i feel that it adds more feats than needed, since lowering the metamagic cost at this point just lowers the amount of extra charges from your staff, or lower the needed perform check if using spell dancer.

If this BBEG is used by a DM, it can create a lengthy but interesting campaign. The pcs would have to stop his preparations, prevent him from obtaining an artifact, prevent him from reaching a node or interrupt him from casting. If they fail to stop him, but do not die, this apocalyptic setting also seems interesting, and sets up the creation for interesting survivor npcs.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Spellblade tennis does not let you stack spell enhancer (or any spell). Spellblades make you immune to the effect of the spell they absorb, so you'd become immune to spell enhancer.

[Anthrowhale]

The metanode spell seems very interesting and can even be added to plot. But i feel that it adds more feats than needed, since lowering the metamagic cost at this point just lowers the amount of extra charges from your staff, or lower the needed perform check if using spell dancer.

I'm unclear on whether Snowcasting works with staff spells?

[Jack_Simth]

i was thinking this too. I was like "ejects from the spell area? Isnt that the entire planet?" lmao.
If line-of-effect rules apply, then anyone over the horizon is out of the area, as is anyone behind a sufficiently durable barrier.

[mesc]

Spellblade tennis does not let you stack spell enhancer (or any spell). Spellblades make you immune to the effect of the spell they absorb, so you'd become immune to spell enhancer.

The act of spell blade tennis, is to become immune to the spell, and have it absorbed into the spellblade to be redirected at a new target on your next turn. You would then release it at an ally who also has that spellblade, so he is immune to it as well and will redirect it at you again the next turn. This means t hat any ocular spell enhancer you cast never activates and just keeps bouncing between you two. This allows you to continuously cast ocular spell enhancer every round to add on to the number of bounced spell enhancers. Then at the last moment when your ally absorbed around 2,000 ocular spell enhancers, and will redirect all of them to you, you would drop your spell blade so you would not become immune to spell enhancer anymore

Spellblade: The wielder of a spell- blade weapon is immune to a single spell chosen at the time the weapon is created. The selected spell must be one that is targeted against the wielder, not one that affects an area or creates an effect. When the wielder is next subjected to the chosen spell, the weapon absorbs it. On his next turn, he can opt to either let the spell drain harmlessly away or direct it at a new target as a free action.
Strong abjuration; CL 13th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, spell turning; Price 6,000 gp.

To understand the full procedure and idea, please read http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?151109-D-amp-D-3-5-Blowing-up-the-Action-Economy-with-Spellblade-Tennis

[mesc]

I'm unclear on whether Snowcasting works with staff spells?

Hmmmm did not think about. Im also unsure whether we can use snowcasting on a staff...
Well if we cannot use a staff, the spell dancer route should still work.

[mesc]

If line-of-effect rules apply, then anyone over the horizon is out of the area, as is anyone behind a sufficiently durable barrier.


Well technically...
"A burst, cone, cylinder, or emanation spell affects only an area, creatures, or objects to which it has line of effect from its origin (a spherical burst’s center point, a cone-shaped burst’s starting point, a cylinder’s circle, or an emanation’s point of origin)."

Apocalypse from the Sky
Conjuration (Creation) [Evil]
Level: Corrupt 9
Components: V, S, M, Corrupt
Casting Time: 1 day
Range: Personal
Area: 10-mile radius/level, centered on caster
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

The spell does not state it is a burst, cone, cylinder or emanation which were the only things stated needed line of effect instead of area spells in general...

[ExLibrisMortis]

To understand the full procedure and idea, please read http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?151109-D-amp-D-3-5-Blowing-up-the-Action-Economy-with-Spellblade-Tennis
Ah, right, I misread. I thought you thought that a single casting of spell enhancer would keep duplicating itself (since the spellblade description doesn't technically say that redirecting a spell flushes the spellblade), but that's just my mistake.

There's still the issue of stacking (spell enhancer can't stack with itself), but if we assume that's handwaved, we're interested in getting a ring of wizardry IV to get a somewhat shorter charging-up time.

[mesc]

well the wording of the spell makes me believe it can be stacked since it is not a bonus

"This spell enhances the next spell you cast, making it more difficult for targets to resist. The next spell you cast this round is cast at +2 caster level, and its save DC increases by 1."

In addition, after fully reading the spell blade tennis thread, I learned of the very cheesy sanctum arcane fusion combo. If you are able to have a sorcerer ally willing to aid you in this world destruction plan. He can use sanctum arcane fusion greater, in order to cast another sanctum arcane fusion greater and, a sanctum ocular spell enhancer (he must have arcane thesis for his spell enhancer). This will allow him to cast an infinite number of ocular spell enhancers as a standard action.

[Anthrowhale]

well the wording of the spell makes me believe it can be stacked since it is not a bonus

"This spell enhances the next spell you cast, making it more difficult for targets to resist. The next spell you cast this round is cast at +2 caster level, and its save DC increases by 1."

In addition, after fully reading the spell blade tennis thread, I learned of the very cheesy sanctum arcane fusion combo. If you are able to have a sorcerer ally willing to aid you in this world destruction plan. He can use sanctum arcane fusion greater, in order to cast another sanctum arcane fusion greater and, a sanctum ocular spell enhancer (he must have arcane thesis for his spell enhancer). This will allow him to cast an infinite number of ocular spell enhancers as a standard action.

Sanctum Arcane Fusion doesn't actually work because it's a level 5 spell. It just takes effect on casting as a level 4 spell. Restated, Sanctum does nothing to alter the level of a spell before casting.

[Anthrowhale]

The spell does not state it is a burst, cone, cylinder or emanation which were the only things stated needed line of effect instead of area spells in general...
Is it a valid target for Explosive Spell then?

[Jack_Simth]

Well technically...
"A burst, cone, cylinder, or emanation spell affects only an area, creatures, or objects to which it has line of effect from its origin (a spherical burst’s center point, a cone-shaped burst’s starting point, a cylinder’s circle, or an emanation’s point of origin)."

Apocalypse from the Sky
Conjuration (Creation) [Evil]
Level: Corrupt 9
Components: V, S, M, Corrupt
Casting Time: 1 day
Range: Personal
Area: 10-mile radius/level, centered on caster
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

The spell does not state it is a burst, cone, cylinder or emanation which were the only things stated needed line of effect instead of area spells in general...

There's also a Seperate Section (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#lineofEffect), which reads:
Line of Effect

A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It’s like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it’s not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.

You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast.

A burst, cone, cylinder, or emanation spell affects only an area, creatures, or objects to which it has line of effect from its origin (a spherical burst’s center point, a cone-shaped burst’s starting point, a cylinder’s circle, or an emanation’s point of origin).

An otherwise solid barrier with a hole of at least 1 square foot through it does not block a spell’s line of effect. Such an opening means that the 5-foot length of wall containing the hole is no longer considered a barrier for purposes of a spell’s line of effect. (Emphasis added)

The bit about bursts, cones, cylinders, emanations, and such is only letting you know that the point of origin can somewhat act as a ... secondary point of reference. Them not applying still falls back to the general (underlined in the above) section. SO yeah, dungeon denizens will by and large be fine (until they start running into oxegyn issues from all the dead things rotting and dead plans). Except that you still can't affect things over the horizon, so there will be plenty of plant life.

[mesc]

"You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast."

I believe that whole text talks about the caster and not the effect of the spell, and is for casting the spell. Apocalypse from the sky is centered on the caster, and you do have line of effect on yourself, which is the target/ space where you created the effect, the point of origin. What happens to the effect after you cast it and the area the effect affects, would then be followed with the area section, however since apocalypse from the sky does not match any of the area description there, its effect does not need a line of effect, only the casting does. The whole text talks of where YOU wish to target/create the point of origin of the spell, not where the area the spell affects.

And if we do assume that you must have line of effect for the area of the spell's effect. That would mean that if you cast dispel magic at an intersection of corridors, the area would not spread to the pathway of the corner since you do not have line of effect/sight of that corridor. This however is the example of burst spells in p. 175 of PHB.

[mesc]

Is it a valid target for Explosive Spell then?

Well...
"Explosive Spell can only be applied to spells that allow Reflex saves and affect some area (a cone, line, or burst). "
Since it said affect some area... despite it not being in the parenthesis, apocalypse from the sky still affects an area

[mesc]

Sanctum Arcane Fusion doesn't actually work because it's a level 5 spell. It just takes effect on casting as a level 4 spell. Restated, Sanctum does nothing to alter the level of a spell before casting.

Arcane fusion states
"When you cast this spell, choose any 1st-level sorcerer spell you know and any 4th-level or lower sorcerer spell you know...

If applying a metamagic feat to a spell, use the adjusted spell level and casting time for purposes of determining eligibility for arcane fusion."

While Sanctum states
"sanctum spell has an effective spell level one level higher than normal if cast in your sanctum (see Special, below)--but if not cast in the sanctum, it has an effective spell level one level lower than normal. All effects dependent on spell level (such as save DCs or the ability to penetrate a minor globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the adjusted level. A sanctum spell uses a spell slot of the spell's normal level, modified by any other metamagic feats."

meaning the adjusted level of a sanctum arcane fusion is equal to 4. The spell slot it uses is a 5th level spell slot, however arcane fusion looks at the spell level, not the spell slot. And furthermore it looks it at after the adjustments of metamagic are made.

The only issue is the full round casting of metamagic, but if the sorcerer had the rapid metamagic feat, it becomes a standard action as usual.

[Anthrowhale]

meaning the adjusted level of a sanctum arcane fusion is equal to 4. The spell slot it uses is a 5th level spell slot, however arcane fusion looks at the spell level, not the spell slot. And furthermore it looks it at after the adjustments of metamagic are made.


The adjusted level of sanctum arcane fusion under this interpretation is equal to either 4 or 6. Since Arcane Fusion only allows L4-, this does not work.

I'm also very much against this interpretation, because it means that you can use arcane fusion to cast Searing Wounding Empowered Maximized Orb of Fire as it is a "4th level spell". In context, they are clearly referring to the spell slot level here, not the adjusted spell level, since most metamagic does not adjust the spell level (or effective spell level).

[mesc]

hmmmm true

[mesc]

Alright I thought of a new combo for the arcane fusion. You would need a way on how to cast arcane fusion unlimited times, such as through a custom made unlimited use activated magic item. Then whenever you cast arcane fusion you cast celerity as one of the spells. Meaning whenever you cast arcane fusion, you get a standard action in addition to 1 spell. The newly gotten standard action is then used to cast another arcane fusion (which you can cast unlimited times). In addition, depending on the reading, you may not need a way to gain daze immunity since the wording of celerity is "However, after you take the standard action granted by this spell, you are dazed until the end of your next turn." And since the standard action granted by celerity is used to cast the effects of 2 spells, you should only be dazed after the effects of the 2 spells resolve, but since one the effects is celerity, you take another standard action immediately, so the resolving of effects should never end and daze you. If that interpretation is wrong, you can always just get a daze immunity item. I believe that this version of the arcane fusion trick works, but it should be very expensive.

With this if you have a sorcerer ally that can do that, your prep time decreases to 1 round. On another note, im trying to find a way on how the sorcerer himself casting apocalypse from the sky, despite him being spontaneous.

[Jack_Simth]

On another note, im trying to find a way on how the sorcerer himself casting apocalypse from the sky, despite him being spontaneous.
Complete Arcane's Arcane Preparation feat is your friend. Although given that it's letting you cast a spell that does some serious damage to you, that may be stretching the term a bit. Maybe it's an enabler of self-destructive behavior? Hmm... regardless, it's what you want here.

[mesc]

Complete Arcane's Arcane Preparation feat is your friend. Although given that it's letting you cast a spell that does some serious damage to you, that may be stretching the term a bit. Maybe it's an enabler of self-destructive behavior? Hmm... regardless, it's what you want here.

Perfect the total time of preperation is now reduced to 2 rounds. An im sure there are ways to become immune to damage and ability damage the spell does.

[Jack_Simth]

Perfect the total time of preperation is now reduced to 2 rounds. An im sure there are ways to become immune to damage and ability damage the spell does.
There's ways to become immune to the adventurers of arbitrary level that are liable to hunt you down for one or more of:
1) Foiling their dastardly plot
2) Destroying their prize
3) Being unbelievably evil
4) XP
5) Thinking of it before they did
?

[mesc]

There's ways to become immune to the adventurers of arbitrary level that are liable to hunt you down for one or more of:
1) Foiling their dastardly plot
2) Destroying their prize
3) Being unbelievably evil
4) XP
5) Thinking of it before they did
?

Yeah adventurers, kingdoms and temples would hunt this guy down. But there are many many many more ways on how to avoid them until the final casting. So essentially all you need is a really good powerful hidden base where you can safely cast the 1 day long spell. Said powerful base can be obtained through the landlord feat. Afterwards, you merely need to set up lots of delaying traps.

And if they do chose to hunt me down after they survived, that becomes a lot more difficult since the xp you gain should put you at lv 40, then you also became the world's strongest necromancer with an undead legion all under your control. And as a cool bonus if your lucky, you can get undead angels to serve you. (They lose most of their abilities but still cool)

[mesc]

Now im just imagining Ainz Ooal Gown...
Insane magical base...
Ultimate undead army...
Allied evil outsiders who support the undead overlord, and work in order to control the world...

[Jack_Simth]

Yeah adventurers, kingdoms and temples would hunt this guy down. But there are many many many more ways on how to avoid them until the final casting. So essentially all you need is a really good powerful hidden base where you can safely cast the 1 day long spell. Said powerful base can be obtained through the landlord feat. Afterwards, you merely need to set up lots of delaying traps.

And if they do chose to hunt me down after they survived, that becomes a lot more difficult since the xp you gain should put you at lv 40, then you also became the world's strongest necromancer with an undead legion all under your control. And as a cool bonus if your lucky, you can get undead angels to serve you. (They lose most of their abilities but still cool)
Assuming it counts as overcoming everything you kill, you level once and then stop one XP short of leveling again. You don't jump from 19th to 40th, you jump from 19th to 20th.

No, seriously. 3.5 Player's Handbook, page 58, "Experience and Levels", 3rd paragraph:

A character can advance only one level at a time. If, for some extraordinary reason, a character’s XP reward from a single adventure would be enough to advance two or more levels at once, he or she instead advances one level and gains just enough XP to be 1 XP short of the next level. Any excess experience points are not retained. For example, if Tordek has 5,000 XP (1,000 points short of 4th level) and gains 6,000 more, he would normally be at 11,000 XP—enough for 5th level. Instead he attains 4th level, and his XP total stands at 9,999.

It doesn't come up much, but it's RAW.

[flappeercraft]

I find two major problems with this.

1. When you apply Ocular Spell to any spell it becomes a Ray and rays are effects and are not targetted which automatically disqualifies it from being used with Spellblade tennis
2. How do you recover spell slots while on this process? Most casters that could do this require sleep and you could not exactly consciously redirect the spells while asleep, you would need some alternate way of recovering spell slots and or getting more people involved and take turns on who sleeps and who keeps the loop going.

[mesc]

I find two major problems with this.

1. When you apply Ocular Spell to any spell it becomes a Ray and rays are effects and are not targetted which automatically disqualifies it from being used with Spellblade tennis
2. How do you recover spell slots while on this process? Most casters that could do this require sleep and you could not exactly consciously redirect the spells while asleep, you would need some alternate way of recovering spell slots and or getting more people involved and take turns on who sleeps and who keeps the loop going.

1. Depends on your reading really since despite rays being effects, you still have to select a creature as your target. For example the example in ocular spell
"Example: Ferno, an 11th-level wizard with the Ocular Spell feat, could prepare two scorching ray spells as ocular spells, casting them at the beginning of the day. In combat, he can take a full-round action to fire off both scorching ray spells. He can fire each spell at a different target, and he gets all three rays from each spell."
While spell blade just says "Spellblade: The wielder of a spell- blade weapon is immune to a single spell chosen at the time the weapon is created. The selected spell must be one that is targeted against the wielder, not one that affects an area or creates an effect." It does not say that spellblade only work on spells with target in their description, but just spells in general that target you, and the example of ocular spell mentions that you do have a target. And if you really wish to abuse wording, and take things into RAW, then ocular merely states that it's effect changes to a ray, and did not change anything else, so debatabley, you could say that the target portion of the spell is still there.

2. the full process of spell blade tennis can be read here http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?151109-D-amp-D-3-5-Blowing-up-the-Action-Economy-with-Spellblade-Tennis

I did not mention the full process, but basically when you go to sleep, you assign 2 of your allies who have the spellblade, to continue trading the spells. Essentially you just need to take shifts passing the spells while sleeping.

[mesc]

assuming it counts as overcoming everything you kill, you level once and then stop one xp short of leveling again. You don't jump from 19th to 40th, you jump from 19th to 20th.

No, seriously. 3.5 player's handbook, page 58, "experience and levels", 3rd paragraph:


It doesn't come up much, but it's raw.

noooooo!!!! The unlimited power!!!!!

[mesc]

In addition, I have come to a realization that this world destruction spell is incomplete. For the simple reason that multiple planes can coexist. While the current combo works fine in the material plane, there will be the lucky 1/16 ethereal who were unaffected from all 4 spell activations, or other creatures who went to the shadow plane, and then the other lucky people who hid in extradimensional spaces. And so WotC has blessed this apocalyptic spell with the Transdimensional spell to thoroughly destroy the world.

[Remuko]

Assuming it counts as overcoming everything you kill, you level once and then stop one XP short of leveling again. You don't jump from 19th to 40th, you jump from 19th to 20th.

No, seriously. 3.5 Player's Handbook, page 58, "Experience and Levels", 3rd paragraph:


It doesn't come up much, but it's RAW.

ive always thought this was a dumb rule considering how infrequently it would come up. sorta like how theres no exp listed for CRs more than 7 above Party Level even though some parties can sometimes accomplish such feats and deserve rewards. So I usually ignore that first rule and Ad Hoc the second.

[flappeercraft]

1. Depends on your reading really since despite rays being effects, you still have to select a creature as your target. For example the example in ocular spell
"Example: Ferno, an 11th-level wizard with the Ocular Spell feat, could prepare two scorching ray spells as ocular spells, casting them at the beginning of the day. In combat, he can take a full-round action to fire off both scorching ray spells. He can fire each spell at a different target, and he gets all three rays from each spell."
While spell blade just says "Spellblade: The wielder of a spell- blade weapon is immune to a single spell chosen at the time the weapon is created. The selected spell must be one that is targeted against the wielder, not one that affects an area or creates an effect." It does not say that spellblade only work on spells with target in their description, but just spells in general that target you, and the example of ocular spell mentions that you do have a target. And if you really wish to abuse wording, and take things into RAW, then ocular merely states that it's effect changes to a ray, and did not change anything else, so debatabley, you could say that the target portion of the spell is still there.

2. the full process of spell blade tennis can be read here http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?151109-D-amp-D-3-5-Blowing-up-the-Action-Economy-with-Spellblade-Tennis

I did not mention the full process, but basically when you go to sleep, you assign 2 of your allies who have the spellblade, to continue trading the spells. Essentially you just need to take shifts passing the spells while sleeping.

1. From the same quote you gave "Spellblade: The wielder of a spell- blade weapon is immune to a single spell chosen at the time the weapon is created. The selected spell must be one that is targeted against the wielder, not one that affects an area or creates an effect."

You can also see right here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#effect) that a ray is always an effect and is categorized as such. Therefore since the splelblade explicitly forbids spells that create area or effect spells it would default to not working by RAW. Also, the target comes from the target line of the spell which means that since rays don't have them they would be inelegible for spellblades since they do not have that line, in this case which you could interpret the ray as still having a target line due to Ocular spell never removing it, it is still disqualified due to being an effect as said before.

2. I have read it and yes that's basically what I proposed. Although there is no reason why you could not target yourself again so that means that only one person is needed so you only need one ally. After all you are not forbidden as a target for the redirection.

My suggested fix: I have come up with a way to fix these two issues. For the first one you change the Spell Enhancer save to the Mystuc Surge spell (PHB2) which does have a target line and therefore could be used with spellblade tennis. Still it raises the CL by 1 per casting so it would take longer to accumulate power. For the second one if you don't have a friend to help you with that you can always get a scroll of simulacrum and make a simulacrum of yourself to do it for you.

[mesc]

it is still disqualified due to being an effect as said before.

I see




2. I have read it and yes that's basically what I proposed. Although there is no reason why you could not target yourself again so that means that only one person is needed so you only need one ally. After all you are not forbidden as a target for the redirection.

My suggested fix: I have come up with a way to fix these two issues. For the first one you change the Spell Enhancer save to the Mystuc Surge spell (PHB2) which does have a target line and therefore could be used with spellblade tennis. Still it raises the CL by 1 per casting so it would take longer to accumulate power. For the second one if you don't have a friend to help you with that you can always get a scroll of simulacrum and make a simulacrum of yourself to do it for you.

You can target yourself, however in the end you will still need the help of an ally. This is because of resting, and the final unleashing of the spell. You are immune if you hold the spell blade, but you can only unleash the spell from the spellblade if you hold it. So you will be forever stuck with just targetting yourself but being forever immune. And for the ally portion, i was thinking of giving a spellblade poison ring to a familiar since they should be smart enough to use it.
Also thanks for the New spell! I have no idea why I didnt find this spell when i was looking for spells like spell enhancer. Even if it takes twice as long, for a sorcerer with the arcane fusion trick, it would take the same amount of time. Only 2 rounds are needed and only 1 spellblade. Round 1: Use greater arcane fusion celerity trick to cast unlimited amounts of mystic surge on your ally/ familiar, then they will redirect it all to you and you can start casting on the next round.

[Charles120]

Zombie angels are still incredibly weak and a waste of angel bodies. If you want to make them better, get the corpse crafter feat and destructive retribution feat. Instead of an unlimited amount of cannon fodder, you can have an unlimited amount of suicide bombers, suicide healers and cannon fodder.

[Jack_Simth]

ive always thought this was a dumb rule considering how infrequently it would come up. sorta like how theres no exp listed for CRs more than 7 above Party Level even though some parties can sometimes accomplish such feats and deserve rewards. So I usually ignore that first rule and Ad Hoc the second.
Well, I'm not going to argue whether or not it's a good thing for the game, but it's most assuredly RAW. Lots of folks depart from RAW, (knowingly or not), so that's not necessarily a big deal, but it's good to know about.

[mesc]

Zombie angels are still incredibly weak and a waste of angel bodies. If you want to make them better, get the corpse crafter feat and destructive retribution feat. Instead of an unlimited amount of cannon fodder, you can have an unlimited amount of suicide bombers, suicide healers and cannon fodder.

This is a great idea, but then i do not think it can work, unless you give a very generous reading on the feats. Destructive retribution and corpse crafter have a similar requirement of "Each undead you raise or create with any necromancy spell..."
but apocalypse from the sky is a conjuration spell that raises zombies with fell animate. Now if you give a generous reading, you can say that the "with any necromancy spell" applies only to the word create, and not raise. Allowing you to apply the 2 feats to the apocalypse combo.

I am not sure if that reading is even allowed. Anyone have any thoughts on if this reading is possible or on ways on how to apply the 2 feats?

[Endarire]

This handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?227513-Destroying-the-world-as-we-know-it-a-Handbook) seems pertinent.

[mesc]

This handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?227513-Destroying-the-world-as-we-know-it-a-Handbook) seems pertinent.

Thanks for the handbook, through shapechange, we can become a Phaerimm and an artifact would not be needed for this anymore.

[Jack_Simth]

Thanks for the handbook, through shapechange, we can become a Phaerimm and an artifact would not be needed for this anymore.
Shapechange doesn't give you spell-like abilities, which is what Phaerimm casting is.