Rate My Spell Selection? - Rogue/Bard Multiclass - Treasure Hunter Build

[Azther]

Hey there! This is a build I've been thinking about for a while. I love the idea of a magical fantasy treasure hunter, Nathan Drake, Lara Croft, Indiana Jones style, with a dash of Charisma and a golden-hearted-thief kind of vibe.

The final setup is Arcane Trickster Rogue 12 + Lore Bard 8.

That's 8 spells known for the Rogue (up to level 2), with only two not being from Ilusion or Enchantment and 13 spells for the Bard (up to level 4) with two being Magical Secrets, for a total of 21 Spells and 7 Cantrips, with a Caster Level of 12 on Level 20.

Also you get Reliable Talent, Magical Ambush, Mage Hand Ledgermain, 6 Expertises, Jack-of-All-Trades and a 6d6 Sneak Attack. Pretty sweet if you ask me.

What do you guys think of this spell list? I only picked Wizard Spells that don't require Saving Throws so you can dump Int and be a dumb Arcane Trickster, though it's nice to have some points there for Investigation and Arcana, since, well, that's kinda of what you do.


Blue is Arcane Trickster Spells
Gold is Bard Spells


Cantrips
Vicious Mockery
Minor Illusion
Thunderclap
Booming Blade
Prestidigitation
Mage Hand
Friends

1st Level
Unseen Servant
Charm Person
Healing Word
Feather Fall
Disguise Self
Sleep

2nd Level
Phantasmal Force
Suggestion
Pass Without Trace (Magical Secrets)
Shadow Blade
Locate Object
Magic Mouth
Mirror Image
Misty Step
Invisibility

3rd Level
Dispel Magic
Hypnotic Pattern
Counterspell (Magical Secrets)

4th Level
Dimension Door
Greater Invisibility
Polymorph


There's a few alternatives that I thought about:

Switching Locate Object for Shield (Being alive is nice)
Switching Misty Step for Absorb Elements (Being alive is REALLY nice)
Switching Unseen Servant for Faerie Fire (Works with Magical Ambush)
Switching Pass Without Trace for Fireball (Since I'll already have great Stealth with Reliable Talent + Expertise and it works with Magical Ambush. Also it's fun.)

So what do you guys think? Any recommendations? Optimization Tips?

[leogobsin]

Shield for Locate Object is probably a good choice, it depends a lot on the kind of campaign you're playing but the 1,000 foot range can really limit what you can do with Locate Object.

Unseen Servant should probably be switched out, basically anything you can do with it you could also do with Mage Hand Legerdemain.

In general, if this is something you're really considering using in a campaign then spend some time thinking about what it's gonna be like at lower levels. Consider which class you want to start as, when you're going to start taking levels in the other class, etc.

[nickl_2000]

Cantrips

I don't think thunderclap really nets you all that much. With a character like this, if you are surrounded where thunderclap would be useful something has gone very wrong. I think you would be better off dropping that, taking Prestidigitation as a Bard spell and then picking up a wizard utility cantrip (shape water, mold earth, gust, or control flames). Frankly I see all of these being more useful, and fitting to your character.


Switching Pass Without Trace for Fireball
I actually wouldn't. By the time you are getting fireball, the damage you are doing with it won't be that great compared to others who will have it. On the other hand, stealth only works if everyone is stealthy, pass without a trace does that for you.

Switching Locate Object for Shield (Being alive is nice) - Yes, just yes.

I also don't see much in the way of ritual spells. Those can be amazing, and detect magic seems very fitting for this character. If you can find a way to fit it in it would be great. Alternately, taking the ritual caster (Wizard) feat may be worth considering too. That would easily fill in those gaps.

[Azther]

Cantrips

I don't think thunderclap really nets you all that much. With a character like this, if you are surrounded where thunderclap would be useful something has gone very wrong. I think you would be better off dropping that, taking Prestidigitation as a Bard spell and then picking up a wizard utility cantrip (shape water, mold earth, gust, or control flames). Frankly I see all of these being more useful, and fitting to your character.


Switching Pass Without Trace for Fireball
I actually wouldn't. By the time you are getting fireball, the damage you are doing with it won't be that great compared to others who will have it. On the other hand, stealth only works if everyone is stealthy, pass without a trace does that for you.

Switching Locate Object for Shield (Being alive is nice) - Yes, just yes.

I also don't see much in the way of ritual spells. Those can be amazing, and detect magic seems very fitting for this character. If you can find a way to fit it in it would be great. Alternately, taking the ritual caster (Wizard) feat may be worth considering too. That would easily fill in those gaps.



I really like the Idea of having a way to deal damage unarmed, even if it's for an emergency or simply in a bar fight. With a character that dumps STR you'd be useless in a bar fight and c'mon those are really fun. Thunderclap could be useful for that. Perhaps Vicious Mockery would be enough though. Cussing fits well with bar fights.

The appeal of Fireball here is the combo with Magical Ambush. If you bonus action hide and then cast Fireball, EVERYONE inside the AoE has disadvantage on the save. Sorcerers can cause disadvantage on one target with Heightened Spell and you can do it with a bonus action for free on all enemies. Seems really enticing. And killing people is so fun. But I see your point. Group stealth checks are a bitch.

I really want Shield but I feel like Locate Object can have its uses so I'm really torn up here.

I'll look up Ritual Spells and try to come up with something.

Thanks for the input!

[Azther]

Shield for Locate Object is probably a good choice, it depends a lot on the kind of campaign you're playing but the 1,000 foot range can really limit what you can do with Locate Object.

Unseen Servant should probably be switched out, basically anything you can do with it you could also do with Mage Hand Legerdemain.

In general, if this is something you're really considering using in a campaign then spend some time thinking about what it's gonna be like at lower levels. Consider which class you want to start as, when you're going to start taking levels in the other class, etc.

I'm close to dumping Locate Object but I feel like it can be useful on specific situations.

Yeah I just reread Unseen Servant, it's definitely going out.

Essentially you're a Playing a Rogue up to level 12 with a bit of magic. After that you get a lot of magic and become surprisingly good at mocking people. With 5 ASIs you can maximize both DEX and CHA and still get a Feat (though admittedly it's on level 20).