Dungeon of the Mad Mage

[username1]

So it was announced that the new adventure would be dragon heist and I'm super pumped about that. But then they told us the second wound be one long 26 level dungeon crawl. Now I'm all for a large dungeon, but 26 levels? After the role-play heavy heist mission my players will be itching to go kill some stuff and get loot. But then this dungeon would bore them to death. I know the levels will be cool and well written, but my players need story and movement. NO WAY we make it past the 10th level without being done. What do you think? Could your group dungeon crawl for 15 player levels? I would use this adventure, but only mixed with another story.

[Armored Walrus]

That's what Undermountain is all about, though. My group would never crawl that long, either, but my old group would have. We loved UnderMountain back in the day.

[Beleriphon]

So it was announced that the new adventure would be dragon heist and I'm super pumped about that. But then they told us the second wound be one long 26 level dungeon crawl. Now I'm all for a large dungeon, but 26 levels? After the role-play heavy heist mission my players will be itching to go kill some stuff and get loot. But then this dungeon would bore them to death. I know the levels will be cool and well written, but my players need story and movement. NO WAY we make it past the 10th level without being done. What do you think? Could your group dungeon crawl for 15 player levels? I would use this adventure, but only mixed with another story.

I expect the adventure will have a reason to do so, one of the reported items is a Spelljammer helm which would be.... interesting. Also, I expect the book will have suggestions about how to do the whole thing without just starting at the top and working down without stopping. There have to be breaks in there somewhere.

[Sigreid]

Presumably there will be a reason you need to do enter the dungeon. Perhaps something about a mad mage that has to be either stopped or saved?

Random thought, I wonder if the mad mage would be Zagyag.

[Davrix]

I expect there to be ways of getting in and out of it after so many level's So you can have other aventures between delving lower and lower the next time. And if there is not you can always add them in. It will be a great long term plot thing they can go back to whenever they wish sort of deal, well depending on how the book tells the story.

[Unoriginal]

Well, first, not all those levels will be about fighting and looting.

Second, isn't Undermountain a classic "stop when you still can" dungeon where most non-motivated-by-a-plot adventurers grab as much loot as they can and try to get back up ASAP?

[Millstone85]

DotMM will follow on DH's theme of having multiple villains, as illustrated by the covers:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DevIQXNUYAAoX0U.jpg

From what I understood, DH will approach this as a multiple choice antagonist. A DM could run the campaign several times, but with differences depending on whether the PCs are being opposed by the Cassalanters, Jarlaxle, Manshoon, or the Xanathar. DotMM, on the other hand, will have its villains live in different areas of Undermountain, and let the PCs ally with some against others. From the cover, I guess that means you could shop in a githyanki settlement before going on a mission against an illithid colony, or rest in a drow city before facing a death tyrant.

[darknite]

I love it. Level 5-20 means a good year of weekly play. Had a lot of fun in the first one.

[LordEntrails]

...but my players need story and movement. NO WAY we make it past the 10th level without being done. What do you think? Could your group dungeon crawl for 15 player levels? I would use this adventure, but only mixed with another story.
A mega-dungeon doesn't have to only be a kick in the door dungeon crawl. It is a setting, a location, a region. It can have power groups, plots, and story lines.


That's what Undermountain is all about, though. My group would never crawl that long, either, but my old group would have. We loved UnderMountain back in the day.
No, no it's not. Maybe that's how you have understood it, or maybe that's how you have played Undermountain. But it is only one-way it can be played. You know their are multiple towns inside UM? You know their are many different things, including different NPCs and groups and such that you can interact with? Maybe you're hired to find a mcGuffin. Maybe you lore says that a myconoid colony in the UM has a sage or oracle that you want a prophecy from? Maybe you are headed into Skullport to free a nephew who has been enslaved and you need to find him before he's taken into the UnderDark? There are a thousand stories and plots that you can run, if you have the imagination.


I expect there to be ways of getting in and out of it after so many level's So you can have other aventures between delving lower and lower the next time. And if there is not you can always add them in. It will be a great long term plot thing they can go back to whenever they wish sort of deal, well depending on how the book tells the story.
There are many ways in and out. At least 20 portals/gates that I know of. Plus you have the seacaves and the River Sargauth, you have the Shaft and the Pit that both span multiple levels and can be used to quickly travel between the levels.

So yes, you can go in and out, if you can figure out where the portals are and how they operate. If you can figure out how to navigate the Shaft or the Pit and the powers that control parts of them.


Well, first, not all those levels will be about fighting and looting.

Second, isn't Undermountain a classic "stop when you still can" dungeon where most non-motivated-by-a-plot adventurers grab as much loot as they can and try to get back up ASAP?

First, yes you are are right on this.

Second, yes, in my experience, this is how most people play it and often is the biggest complaint about it.

But, UM is a setting, what you make of it and how you play it is up to you.

[JackPhoenix]

Presumably there will be a reason you need to do enter the dungeon. Perhaps something about a mad mage that has to be either stopped or saved?

Random thought, I wonder if the mad mage would be Zagyag.

The mad mage is Halaster Blackcloak, the wizard who built Undermountain. Why would Zagyg be in Forgotten Realms in the first place?

[Sigreid]

The mad mage is Halaster Blackcloak, the wizard who built Undermountain. Why would Zagyg be in Forgotten Realms in the first place?

The thought was based on his traditional honorific Zagyag the Mad. And he got his start in Grethawk, but is one of those wizards for whom the barriers between realms are trivial.

[Millstone85]

The mad mage is Halaster Blackcloak, the wizard who built Undermountain.He is also the guy at the bottom of the DotMM cover. Any guesses on the names of the drow, the illithid, the githyanki, and the death tyrant?

I think it would be cool if the drow was related to Jarlaxle from the previous adventure, and if the death tyrant was a former Xanathar.

[Gryndle]

The thought was based on his traditional honorific Zagyag the Mad. And he got his start in Grethawk, but is one of those wizards for whom the barriers between realms are trivial.

its also Halastar's "traditional honorific" i.e. Halaster the Mad

[Beleriphon]

The thought was based on his traditional honorific Zagyag the Mad. And he got his start in Grethawk, but is one of those wizards for whom the barriers between realms are trivial.

No, the Mad Mage of Undermountain is definitely Halaster Blackcloak. He's also dead as of 1373 DR.

[Millstone85]

No, the Mad Mage of Undermountain is definitely Halaster Blackcloak. He's also dead as of 1373 DR.However, he has become something akin to a lich, with the whole megadungeon as his phylactery.

[Sigreid]

It was just a thought. There seems to be a lot of Mad in the mages. :smallbiggrin:

[Personification]

Apparently each layer of the dungeon will be its own mini-civilization/biome or something. So in addition to dungeon crawling, door kicking, monster slaying, and loot taking, every time you arrive in a new location you will need to do some roleplaying, polite door opening, political maneuvering, and fee/bribe paying. Unless your players are more then 92% murderhobo, the game should have plenty of RP, noncombat, and story driven content to rund out the violence.

[Sigreid]

Apparently each layer of the dungeon will be its own mini-civilization/biome or something. So in addition to dungeon crawling, door kicking, monster slaying, and loot taking, every time you arrive in a new location you will need to do some roleplaying, polite door opening, political maneuvering, and fee/bribe paying. Unless your players are more then 92% murderhobo, the game should have plenty of RP, noncombat, and story driven content to rund out the violence.

This made me think of a campaign idea. The players know their character's are in some kind of a cave complex. What they eventually learn is they are in a massive earth ship hurling through space between the spheres.

[LordEntrails]

The mad mage is Halaster Blackcloak, the wizard who built Undermountain. Why would Zagyg be in Forgotten Realms in the first place?
Actually Halaster did not build Undermountain. Crypts were built in the area by elves circa -8500 DR. Then the dwarven King Melair I found mithral in the area and built what was called the Underhalls of Melairbode. They built somewhere in the neighborhood of half of the levels.

Later on Halaster moved in and starting claiming the Underhalls, driving out drow and druegar who had driven out the dwarves. All of which, including Nethyrese (sp?) mages who built an enclave down there including what is now Skullport.

Anyways, yes, Halaster and his apprentices built or expanded some of the UM, but by no means did he build even a majority of it. Its a complex history.


He is also the guy at the bottom of the DotMM cover. Any guesses on the names of the drow, the illithid, the githyanki, and the death tyrant?

I think it would be cool if the drow was related to Jarlaxle from the previous adventure, and if the death tyrant was a former Xanathar.
He was named as Jarlaxle during the SoME, not a relative.


No, the Mad Mage of Undermountain is definitely Halaster Blackcloak. He's also dead as of 1373 DR.
And he's also alive as of the SoME. And Durnan is now once again the original Durnan, not the sixth (+) Durnan as detailed in the Expedition to Undermountain adventure. So, not only can Halaster come back from death (ok, magic, clones, conteingency spells) but a human fighter turned barkeep is now immortal as well (for what benefit? Nothing I can think of).

In short, its probably safest to assume everything is set back to where it was in 2E except for the date.

[Millstone85]

He was named as Jarlaxle during the SoME, not a relative.Yes, the drow with a feathered hat on the DH cover has been confirmed to be Jarlaxle.

I was talking about the drow lady who occupies the same position on the DotMM cover. I think it would be nice if they had a connection beside being both drow, to create a sense of continuity between the adventures.

[Unoriginal]

but a human fighter turned barkeep is now immortal as well (for what benefit? Nothing I can think of).

Not immortal, but the stuff he found in the Undermountain made him long-lived, perhaps to the point of eternal (relative) youth... along with doing *something* to his mind.

Some parts of Undermountain do not want you to leave. Ever.

Still, while eternal youth is not common, it's one of the Boons described in the DMG. It's not outlandish for adventurers to stumble into things that grant it.

[E’Tallitnics]

Apparently nobody watched Stream of Many Eyes this past weekend! So many videos explaining, in detail, both books and some of their characters:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPjdPog_vKX3Y5OlshqGLeQjxOmf7Zewq

[Unoriginal]

Apparently nobody watched Stream of Many Eyes this past weekend! So many videos explaining, in detail, both books and some of their characters:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPjdPog_vKX3Y5OlshqGLeQjxOmf7Zewq

I watched the videos, and I know several others in this thread did the same.

Was there any new info during the third day?