Blindsight for PCs

[zminseo]

As stated above in the title, what would be an example of a balanced playable race that has blindsight? Would using blindsight in games be overpowered? Underpowered?

[prototype00]

A bunch of giant insects have it so a Moon Druid could have it from lvl 2.

Useful when it is needed, useless otherwise.

[kraitmarais]

I don't know if I'd call it overpowered, but I think it'd really reduce the quality of the game. Suddenly the DM can't use hidden enemies, invisibility, or other stealth tactic to challenge the party, and this reduction in diversity of encounter types will just make the game more boring for both the players and the DM.

Maybe it'd be okay if the blindsight radius is really small, like five or ten feet.

Edit:


A bunch of giant insects have it so a Moon Druid could have it from lvl 2.

Useful when it is needed, useless otherwise.

Hmm, good point. Though while that sneaking giant centipede may be a great scout, it can't talk to its allies in battle to warn about the position of an invisible foe, or someone who has hidden in a new place.

[krugaan]

It would be balanced if it had the normal blindsight radius (like, 30'?) and the PC was actually blind.

[Armored Walrus]

I don't know if I'd call it overpowered, but I think it'd really reduce the quality of the game. Suddenly the DM can't use hidden enemies, invisibility, or other stealth tactic to challenge the party, and this reduction in diversity of encounter types will just make the game more boring for both the players and the DM.


By this logic, every player ability reduces the quality of the game.

Blindsight only has a certain radius, you can still use hidden enemies just fine beyond that radius. Invisible enemies are still invisible to the rest of the party. An ambush of high-range attackers is going to remain just as threatening.

[Armored Walrus]

It would be balanced if it had the normal blindsight radius (like, 30'?) and the PC was actually blind.

I think 10' blindsight is more common, until high CRs. Aside from that, blindsight radius 30' traded for blindness otherwise would be a terrible trade. Your range of vision is measured in miles, you think giving that up in exchange for blindsight to 30' is balanced? Suddenly every archer and dart-thrower in the world has advantage on every attack against you.

Edit: I suppose at some point I should actually address OP's question. I don't think you're going to break your game if you want to give away blindsight to a reasonable radius somehow. I actually just did it in a game I'm running, but only went with 10'. I expect it to have very little impact other than flavor. (the character is primarily a ranged character, he's not going to be closing to 10' if he can help it)

[SociopathFriend]

I had a similar thought just the other day since I'm writing such a character in my novel (not exactly but I'm trying to be brief). The first thing to remember is that this person with Blind-sense is most likely blind outside of the sense. That's not a minor thing. You're seeing without sight.
If you're taking on blind-sense to someone who can normally see, that's a bit odd but still workable; albeit you eliminate the only drawback to having the ability.

Furthermore, blind sight does NOT automatically mean you know the stealthed enemy is there.

A creature with blindsight can perceive its surroundings without relying on sight, within a specific radius. Creatures without eyes, such as oozes, and creatures with echolocation or heightened senses, such as bats and true dragons, have this sense.
Nowhere in here does it say you see everything without a chance of failure (or an equivalent). It simply means you do not rely on sight for perception. You still have to "perceive" the stealth-using enemy. A stealth roll isn't just hunkering down behind a rock, it's also stepping lightly, quieting your breathing, etc.

I personally don't think it's overpowered at all given the laundry list of negatives that come with it:
1) If someone shoots them from beyond that distance- all you can tell them is it came from "Your left" for example. Unlike a normal person, there is exactly zero chance they saw where it came from and they must guess.
2) Something that would be perfectly visible to someone with sight is practically invisible beyond the blind sense radius. In the heat of a teamfight, this blind person will not be able to make a beeline for any enemy without the party explicitly guiding them. "Enemy on your 6, 40 feet away!" Climbing any sort of structure, rope, or cliff would be a nightmare as sooner or later they'll have no idea where they are or what's around them. This goes double for swimming.
3) The blind character will also be absolutely melee as they'd have to literally blind-fire any sort of ranged attack or spell. Frankly I'd give disadvantage and then -5 because beyond that since they have NO idea where the enemy is unless outside circumstances help them.
4) Oh even better, the blind character doesn't use sight right? This is admittedly a jerk move but how exactly do they tell the party members from enemies? Or even natural terrain from a bad guy? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQFik9nlBcw)

It's ripe for opportunity to challenge the players if done well. If not... well the guy is just really good at knowing people are close to him with his eyes closed. Not good enough to automatically void any stealth attempt as that's not what blind-sense does- but better at it than the average bear.

[SirGraystone]

I would make the PC blind, with blindsight 30' but if someone is moving without making noise they can only see them at 10' (or not at all). Which let them see invisible creature, but not always stealthy one.

They also since blind not able to read or see color.

[darknite]

Sounds overpowered to me. Perhaps consider incorporating a mechanism that allows blindsight but it's not always up? Use a bonus action with a skill check (Wis) to utilize acute non-visual senses? So many uses per short or long rest? Etc.

[krugaan]

I think 10' blindsight is more common, until high CRs. Aside from that, blindsight radius 30' traded for blindness otherwise would be a terrible trade. Your range of vision is measured in miles, you think giving that up in exchange for blindsight to 30' is balanced? Suddenly every archer and dart-thrower in the world has advantage on every attack against you.

Shrug, them's the breaks. It would certainly make for interesting combat and roleplay. Maybe "not broken" would be a better phrase than "balanced."

[SirGraystone]

Aside from that, blindsight radius 30' traded for blindness otherwise would be a terrible trade. Your range of vision is measured in miles, you think giving that up in exchange for blindsight to 30' is balanced? Suddenly every archer and dart-thrower in the world has advantage on every attack against you.

I wouldn't trade blindness to get blindsight in a 30' radius either, but a player that ask for blindsight almost always want it to abuse the game with darkness and similar thing. So if they really want it in my game, that have to be willing to pay the price for it.

[darknite]

I think 10' blindsight is more common, until high CRs. Aside from that, blindsight radius 30' traded for blindness otherwise would be a terrible trade. Your range of vision is measured in miles, you think giving that up in exchange for blindsight to 30' is balanced? Suddenly every archer and dart-thrower in the world has advantage on every attack against you.
...

Sucks to be blind, I guess. With more extensive blindsight what exactly is the downside of not having vision? Color and reading? Not a bad trade if you don't have to worry about invisibility, displacement, magical darkness, petrification and the like.

[MrStabby]

I wouldn't allow it.

It is possible to put drawbacks in place to make it balanced but then you have a character that is either overpowered or under-powered depending on the circumstances. This tends to reduce the joy in the game either way.

There are enough spells like fog cloud out there to be able to abuse it. It is like the warlock darkness/devils sight combination but without a need to sink two levels into the warlock class.

[Dr. Cliché]

It would be balanced if it had the normal blindsight radius (like, 30'?) and the PC was actually blind.

I think this could be a really fun idea.

I might tweak it slightly, though, depending on the source of blindsight.

[Armored Walrus]

I wouldn't allow it.

That wasn't the question. The question is OP is thinking of homebrewing a race that has it for his game. For which he's presumably the DM. He's asking if it can be balanced. But apparently bindsight is god mode, even though CR 1/4 creatures have it?

[SociopathFriend]

That wasn't the question. The question is OP is thinking of homebrewing a race that has it for his game. For which he's presumably the DM. He's asking if it can be balanced. But apparently bindsight is god mode, even though CR 1/4 creatures have it?

It's only considered "good" if you don't follow the rules (you can still make Stealth checks) and ignore any negative scenario. It's not unbalanced anymore than Darkvision is.

[MrStabby]

That wasn't the question. The question is OP is thinking of homebrewing a race that has it for his game. For which he's presumably the DM. He's asking if it can be balanced. But apparently bindsight is god mode, even though CR 1/4 creatures have it?

Then you might want to quote the rest of the post that addresses that, rather than the small bit that doesn't.

[Tubben]

Rogues at Lv14 get Blindsense (10). How much does it break the game (Not at all at our table.)

Regarding Blindsight.
Hidden creatures are still hidden.
You see invisible creatures, something several caster can do also.


If Blindsight has an range, like 10-30, i think it no problem.

If we talk about Truesight, that something different :)