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KittenMagician
2018-06-05, 09:04 PM
I am fairly new to d&d in general. my first character is a dragonborn barbarian. RP wise he is fanatical for his god (the blood god( noother name)) and thusly i was planning on doing path of the zealot from xanathars guide to everything because i want the extra damage (violence is always the answer)and it makes sense to me. i was looking at other classes just to have a better understanding of the game and the war domain of clerics really stood out to me. i was only thnking of going 1 or 2 lvls in because i want war priest for extra attacks and guided strike at 2nd lvl. i would miss out on the unlimited rages and primal champion of 20th lvl barbarian but i think causing more violence for my god of violence is good RP. my main doubts are that if i do this any spells i cast will suffer a little because my characters stats are str: 18 dex:10 con: 15 int: 6 wis: 11 cha:17 and low wisdom makes for bad cleric. just looking for some advice on the matter.

Derpaligtr
2018-06-05, 09:08 PM
I am fairly new to d&d in general. my first character is a dragonborn barbarian. RP wise he is fanatical for his god (the blood god( noother name)) and thusly i was planning on doing path of the zealot from xanathars guide to(violence is always the answer) everything because i want the extra damage and it makes sense to me. i was looking at other classes just to have a better understanding of the game and the war domain of clerics really stood out to me. i was only thnking of going 1 or 2 lvls in because i want war priest for extra attacks and guided strike at 2nd lvl. i would miss out on the unlimited rages and primal champion of 20th lvl barbarian but i think causing more violence for my god of violence is good RP. my main doubts are that if i do this any spells i cast will suffer a little because my characters stats are str: 18 dex:10 con: 15 int: 6 wis: 11 cha:17 and low wisdom makes for bad cleric. just looking for some advice on the matter.

Are you really going to get to level 20? Like, that's a pretty rare occurrence. Live in the moment, not for the goal you most likely will never get to.

Also, you can't MC Cleric without a wisdom score of 13 or higher (try to get that Cha and Wis switched).

You could just go War Cleric with that spread, you can go low Wis Cleric just fine depending on how you build it.

Xihirli
2018-06-05, 09:16 PM
Yeah with those stats you can't MC cleric but you could MC Paladin for a lot of the same flavor.

Derpaligtr
2018-06-05, 09:22 PM
Yeah with those stats you can't MC cleric but you could MC Paladin for a lot of the same flavor.

I think Paladin pretty much does the same thing as the barbarian (melee damage) so staying Barbarian and taking the Acolyte background would make more sense (so you aren't splitting resources on your main thing).

KittenMagician
2018-06-05, 09:32 PM
Are you really going to get to level 20? Like, that's a pretty rare occurrence. Live in the moment, not for the goal you most likely will never get to.

Also, you can't MC Cleric without a wisdom score of 13 or higher (try to get that Cha and Wis switched).

You could just go War Cleric with that spread, you can go low Wis Cleric just fine depending on how you build it.

i really like barbarian and i was thinking of using my abilty score increases at 4th and 8th lvl to increase wisdom so i could MC cleric and be better at thos spells and then MC later in the campaign instead of early on. i really want those unlimited rages just so i can tell the dm that im always raging

CTurbo
2018-06-06, 03:35 AM
I would NOT spend even 1 ASI bumping Wis in order to take a level or two in Cleric, much less 2 ASIs. It's just not worth THAT much effort. Now if you already had a 16 or better Wis, then maybe.

As mentioned above, Paladin would be about the same thing and a much better fit for you. You can't cast a spell while raging, but you CAN smite while raging.

Another option would be to take Magic Initiate - Cleric for a couple cantrips and a 1st level spell.

Derpaligtr
2018-06-06, 06:20 AM
I would NOT spend even 1 ASI bumping Wis in order to take a level or two in Cleric, much less 2 ASIs. It's just not worth THAT much effort. Now if you already had a 16 or better Wis, then maybe.

As mentioned above, Paladin would be about the same thing and a much better fit for you. You can't cast a spell while raging, but you CAN smite while raging.

Another option would be to take Magic Initiate - Cleric for a couple cantrips and a 1st level spell.
Need wis for the feat.

Xihirli
2018-06-06, 08:17 AM
No, you’re thinking of Ritual Caster.

Derpaligtr
2018-06-06, 09:25 AM
No, you’re thinking of Ritual Caster.

Sorry, what i mean is, that if they want to use any of those spells for being a murdering PR machine (god of violence) then they would need a wis score.

A barbarian casting bless (concentration) stops them from raging. A barbarian casting Inflict Wounds and then raging on the high that their deity's power gave them? Hell yes.

Cure wounds does 1d8 + mod healing... Not worth a feat.

So, yes, they would need a high wis to make use of the feat in such a way that a barbarian would be able to use.

Quoxis
2018-06-06, 09:29 AM
You‘ll essentially get 2 bonus action attacks per long rest and a +10 to an attack once per long rest.
If you think that’s worth the investment, go for it, it’s your character, you get to decide what you want to do with him.
I personally wouldn’t, because A) it doesn’t only cost you your capstone but it drastically delays your coolest feature of basically never dying and B) it’s just not worth it.
Going paladin not only requires less investment but also makes you kind of op, because it gives you non-magical healing. If your character goes down to 0hp after 14 levels of zealotry, he only dies if his rage ends before his hp are in the positive - with one level of pally you get the „lay on hands“ feature which works even when you’re raging, so you can heal yourself in your last turn of combat for just a few hp to cheese yourself out of death.

thereaper
2018-06-06, 10:12 AM
With that spread, no. You really want to have 14 wisdom without any ASIs to even consider multiclassing Cleric.

If you did have that, however, I would say absolutely. The Barbarian stops keeping pace with the monsters once you get to the teens. Any levels you sink into the class after that point are effectively a waste. If you're going to be falling behind the monsters' martial capability anyway, why not fall behind slightly more and get some spellcasting which can keep up?

It's not really about the Cleric's martial capability (though the fact that it has some is nice). It's about being able to get the power to do things besides hit things. Healing Word, Bless, Guidance; these are amazing spells that don't require a lot of Wis. Depending on when you multiclass out, you might even end up with significantly higher level stuff, too.

I've also been pondering the potential of a Barbarian/Bard lately as well. One level gets you Healing Word, Minor Illusion, Silent Image, and Bardic Inspiration. Two levels gets you Jack of All Trades and Song of Rest. Three levels gets you Suggestion, three skills, and Cutting Words. The issue, of course, is that it requires Cha, which is much harder to manage as a Barbarian (you would want a decent wisdom anyway, so investing a little more into that to qualify for Cleric isn't too hard; Cha is an actual dump stat).

Quoxis
2018-06-06, 10:21 AM
With that spread, no. You really want to have 14 wisdom without any ASIs to even consider multiclassing Cleric.

If you did have that, however, I would say absolutely. The Barbarian stops keeping pace with the monsters once you get to the teens. Any levels you sink into the class after that point are effectively a waste. If you're going to be falling behind the monsters' martial capability anyway, why not fall behind slightly more and get some spellcasting which can keep up?

It's not really about the Cleric's martial capability (though the fact that it has some is nice). It's about being able to get the power to do things besides hit things. Healing Word, Bless, Guidance; these are amazing spells that don't require a lot of Wis. Depending on when you multiclass out, you might even end up with significantly higher level stuff, too.

I've also been pondering the potential of a Barbarian/Bard lately as well. One level gets you Healing Word, Minor Illusion, Silent Image, and Bardic Inspiration. Two levels gets you Jack of All Trades and Song of Rest. Three levels gets you Suggestion, three skills, and Cutting Words. The issue, of course, is that it requires Cha, which is much harder to manage as a Barbarian (you would want a decent wisdom anyway, so investing a little more into that to qualify for Cleric isn't too hard; Cha is an actual dump stat).

You do realize that rage cancels any magic you cast or concentrate on, correct? I‘m all for versatility, but it seems weird that you advertise a build which lets you decide between being a mediocre barbarian and a bad cleric, depending on whether you rage or not.

Does a 1st level cleric really add that much to a lvl 11 party? Guidance and either healing word or bless could be taken with magic initiate without an mc.

GlenSmash!
2018-06-06, 11:05 AM
Barb just doesn't mesh well with spellcasters. Barb/Paladin works a little easier since you can smite while raging and thus take advantage of those spell slots.

I think the concept can still be served by straight Zealot, straight War Cleric, or Zealot/Paladin. Acolyte background for sure.

GreyBlack
2018-06-06, 11:57 AM
Unsure if this has been said, but you can't cast spells when you're raging. Unsure if that's what you want.

MrStabby
2018-06-06, 12:02 PM
Cleric barbarian can work but it does depend somewhat on your style of barbarian for what tools you want to pick up from cleric.

In terms of tricks, I would say warding bond is the main one if you want a dip. Taking damage for others plays into your tank role, your resistance gets more use and it isn't a concentration spell so you can keep it up when raging. Also, it doesn't need high wisdom to be effective.

Quoxis
2018-06-06, 12:50 PM
Barb just doesn't mesh well with spellcasters. Barb/Paladin works a little easier since you can smite while raging and thus take advantage of those spell slots.

I think the concept can still be served by straight Zealot, straight War Cleric, or Zealot/Paladin. Acolyte background for sure.

Be honest, dear recurring Barbarian loving forum buddy: Does Barb mesh well with ANYTHING for you?

GlenSmash!
2018-06-06, 12:59 PM
Be honest, dear recurring Barbarian loving forum buddy: Does Barb mesh well with ANYTHING for you?

Oh heck yes!

Fighter first and foremost. If not going to 20, and most campaigns, I would't hesitate to grab 3 or 4 levels of fighter after barbarian 5.

Barb/Rogue is hugely good too with expertise in athletics, on demand sneak attacks with a Rapier using strength, and super durability with Rage and uncanny dodge.

Barb/Paladin for raging smites.

Barb Moon Druid for raging Brown Bears.

Those are the best IMHO.

Another weird one that works is Barb/Fiend pact warlock for Rage and Temp HPs.

I did have a Ranger/Barb that would start of casting Hunter's Mark for extra damage, then trying to hit as many foes as possible while recklessly attacking, then retreating with the Mobile feat. If I lost concentration on Hunter's Mark (which happened often enough) I would Rage.

It was a need ambusher skirmisher type over my typical rage and kick down the door Barbarian.

Quoxis
2018-06-06, 01:20 PM
If I lost concentration on Hunter's Mark (which happened often enough) I would Rage.


The children i work with.

Also: i hope you’re talking about your character using their rage feature, not you going all out like
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Vogie
2018-06-06, 01:34 PM
If you had the stats, there are ways to make the Barb/Cleric blend work. A Storm Herald Barbarian with a Tempest Cleric Dip, for example, would work splendidly.

In your situation, since you are already a Zealot Barbarian, Paladin is the dip you're looking for. Conquest will even give you the guided strike you wanted.

Another option is you could, theoretically, be a charisma-based Cleric - ask your DM if they'd allow you to. You didn't say anything about this being an AL game, so that could be an option if they allow the small dip. It would certainly fit your character's concept.

GlenSmash!
2018-06-06, 02:16 PM
The children i work with.

Also: i hope you’re talking about your character using their rage feature, not you going all out like
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Maybe a little of both?

You are of course correct. The character lost concentration. :smallbiggrin:

Derpaligtr
2018-06-06, 04:40 PM
Cleric barbarian can work but it does depend somewhat on your style of barbarian for what tools you want to pick up from cleric.

In terms of tricks, I would say warding bond is the main one if you want a dip. Taking damage for others plays into your tank role, your resistance gets more use and it isn't a concentration spell so you can keep it up when raging. Also, it doesn't need high wisdom to be effective.

I would say that Cleric/Barbarian or Barbarian/Cleric is one of the best multiclasses in the game. The barbarian does one thing very well, the Cleric not only expands on that, but makes them do that one thing even better.

I was in an AL game where a dude was raging and using Spiritual Weapon... Not sure if they changed the rules on that one but technically, by raw, it worked (cast, next round rage and direct the spell... You just can't cast/concentrate on spells).

The issue with OP's character is that low wisdom. The feat really isn't worth it to justify not taking anything else.

GlenSmash!
2018-06-07, 11:26 AM
I would say that Cleric/Barbarian or Barbarian/Cleric is one of the best multiclasses in the game. The barbarian does one thing very well, the Cleric not only expands on that, but makes them do that one thing even better.

I was in an AL game where a dude was raging and using Spiritual Weapon... Not sure if they changed the rules on that one but technically, by raw, it worked (cast, next round rage and direct the spell... You just can't cast/concentrate on spells).

The issue with OP's character is that low wisdom. The feat really isn't worth it to justify not taking anything else.

Spiritual Weapon then Rage does work, but given how many ways there are to get a bonus action attack in the game I'm not sure the MC is worth it. Especially since Spiritual Weapon can't get bonus damage from Rage, get Advantage from Reckless Attack, or use the +10 from GWM.

It works but the opportunity cost is so high I would hardly call it one of the best MCs in the game.

Derpaligtr
2018-06-07, 12:41 PM
Spiritual Weapon then Rage does work, but given how many ways there are to get a bonus action attack in the game I'm not sure the MC is worth it. Especially since Spiritual Weapon can't get bonus damage from Rage, get Advantage from Reckless Attack, or use the +10 from GWM.

It works but the opportunity cost is so high I would hardly call it one of the best MCs in the game.

The spiritual weapon helped take out mooks while yhe barbarians helped with main threat. Barbarians are great at single target damage but can't spread it around that much. Also, it was damn cool, the weapon was just a ghost verion of yhe barbarian as the barbarian was the chosen weapon of the deity.

Optimizing is fine, but killing something and killing it by 30 hp over their max does the same thing. Being able to help out your rogue/wizard buddy while you smack the big baddie is a nice addition to the barbarian. All that additional damage is just being wasted.

2 to 5 levels of barbarian with yhe rest going in cleric makes for a fun and versatile build that works wonders.

MagneticKitty
2018-06-07, 12:49 PM
What about celestial Warlock or favored souls sorc? I think those are a better fit

GlenSmash!
2018-06-07, 01:39 PM
The spiritual weapon helped take out mooks while yhe barbarians helped with main threat. Barbarians are great at single target damage but can't spread it around that much. Also, it was damn cool, the weapon was just a ghost verion of yhe barbarian as the barbarian was the chosen weapon of the deity.

It does sound cool.


Optimizing is fine, but killing something and killing it by 30 hp over their max does the same thing. Being able to help out your rogue/wizard buddy while you smack the big baddie is a nice addition to the barbarian. All that additional damage is just being wasted.

2 to 5 levels of barbarian with yhe rest going in cleric makes for a fun and versatile build that works wonders.

Sure, but so does 2-5 levels of barbarian then warlock or fighter, ranger, or druid, or rogue, or 2-5 fighter/Cleric X.

I have no doubt that it is fun. I have no doubt that it was effective. I doubt that it is among the best of possible multiclasses.

No brains
2018-06-07, 02:04 PM
One stunt you can pull off as a Zealot Barbarian 3 / Any Cleric 10 (less with the right magic items) is to use Glyph of Warding to store a Raise Dead until your corpse is put on it. Per the wording of Zealot's 3rd level benefit, you can cheat the cost of Glyph of Warding and Raise Dead to make a Lazurus Pit for yourself! Fight to the death in every fight!

If you can find a way to keep yourself under the effect of Gentle Repose, you can do this at 5th level with Revivify.

Spell scrolls of Revivify and Raise dead can help you pull this off one level early, as well as allow you to pull this off with Resurrection and True Resurrection when you only have one 7th or 9th level slot to cast with.

In general this combos best with people you can trust to get you back onto the glyph. Though if you can take up a 5-foot doorway on the defensive, you can insta-Gandalf when you tell bozos "You shall not pass!"

Derpaligtr
2018-06-07, 03:09 PM
It does sound cool.



Sure, but so does 2-5 levels of barbarian then warlock or fighter, ranger, or druid, or rogue, or 2-5 fighter/Cleric X.

I have no doubt that it is fun. I have no doubt that it was effective. I doubt that it is among the best of possible multiclasses.

Fighter, ranger, and rogue only increases the barbarian's single target damage. Rage doesn't work at range. Fighter helps, kinda, but still mostly single target at a time.

Warlock lower's the barbarian's wis save, by virtue of wis not being a focus. There are some basic things that stop rage tied to wisdom saves.

Being a backup caster that can do damage is nice. Very nice. The cleric's sibclasses make the chouces even better. Snatching some spells from other classes is also nice.

Charisma and Intelligence just isn't as good of ability scores to focus on and partial casters typically focus on yhe same thing as thr barbarian.

KittenMagician
2018-06-07, 07:44 PM
I feel i should add some clarification to what i originally wanted. My character worship a god of extreme violence. as such i was looking for ways to increase my ability to deal more damage (really instances of damage ie more attacks per turn) after going throught the cleric more in depth, i would never cast the concentration spells except out of combat as more of an RP thing. i would use ones like cure wounds in combat either pre or post rage (i can end early if i choose). the whole point for MC cleric is an RP representation of my character devoting himself even more fully to his god. to be specific the spells i would use would be command (my guy is supposed to be scary cha for intimidation), cure wounds, healing word, inflict wounds, guiding bolt, and maybe detect evil (undead are my god's most hated enemy). i was not intending to go fully into cleric. only 1 or 2 levels. i am first and formost a Barbarian in the service of The Blood God.

MrStabby
2018-06-07, 08:07 PM
I feel i should add some clarification to what i originally wanted. My character worship a god of extreme violence. as such i was looking for ways to increase my ability to deal more damage (really instances of damage ie more attacks per turn) after going throught the cleric more in depth, i would never cast the concentration spells except out of combat as more of an RP thing. i would use ones like cure wounds in combat either pre or post rage (i can end early if i choose). the whole point for MC cleric is an RP representation of my character devoting himself even more fully to his god. to be specific the spells i would use would be command (my guy is supposed to be scary cha for intimidation), cure wounds, healing word, inflict wounds, guiding bolt, and maybe detect evil (undead are my god's most hated enemy). i was not intending to go fully into cleric. only 1 or 2 levels. i am first and formost a Barbarian in the service of The Blood God.

In which case I think Paladin might be better. Holy vibe, high CHa for intimidate and smiting goodness for "extra violence".

KittenMagician
2018-06-07, 08:49 PM
In which case I think Paladin might be better. Holy vibe, high CHa for intimidate and smiting goodness for "extra violence".

my dm also suggested paladin but i dont like paladin spells almost all of the take conce.tration which means no raging. lay on hands and divine smite are cool but if im gonna MC something (paladin or claeric or other) i want to be able to fully utilize all aspects of being barbarian along with what i gain from the other class. so to me since i cant rage with paladin spells it seems almost a waste of my time

Vogie
2018-06-07, 09:55 PM
my dm also suggested paladin but i dont like paladin spells almost all of the take conce.tration which means no raging. lay on hands and divine smite are cool but if im gonna MC something (paladin or claeric or other) i want to be able to fully utilize all aspects of being barbarian along with what i gain from the other class. so to me since i cant rage with paladin spells it seems almost a waste of my time

To be fair, you can't rage with ANYONE's spells. Because rage prohibits spellcasting.

However, paladin gives plenty of utility spells that can be done out of combat, then you can use your Divine smite to "use" your spell slots while raging, as well as your Channel Divinities and Lay on Hands abilities. You can't use the Spells with smite in the name, sure, but you don't need to.

Regardless of your feelings, you'll still need 13 wisdom to MC into Cleric.

JamesForeCast
2018-06-08, 02:00 AM
It depends on situation. I've played few times but always failed. Probably i don't enough experience to play such сharacter :smallannoyed:

No brains
2018-06-08, 08:12 AM
To be fair, you can't rage with ANYONE's spells. Because rage prohibits spellcasting.

However, paladin gives plenty of utility spells that can be done out of combat, then you can use your Divine smite to "use" your spell slots while raging, as well as your Channel Divinities and Lay on Hands abilities. You can't use the Spells with smite in the name, sure, but you don't need to.

Regardless of your feelings, you'll still need 13 wisdom to MC into Cleric.

Granted one can't do both in one turn, but casting Spiritual Weapon and then raging is a perfectly valid option. It might not be the perfect use for a bonus action while raging but SW doesn't require concentration.

thereaper
2018-06-08, 08:27 AM
You do realize that rage cancels any magic you cast or concentrate on, correct? I‘m all for versatility, but it seems weird that you advertise a build which lets you decide between being a mediocre barbarian and a bad cleric, depending on whether you rage or not.

Does a 1st level cleric really add that much to a lvl 11 party? Guidance and either healing word or bless could be taken with magic initiate without an mc.

Druids have the same issue up until, what is it, level 17? People don't consider it an issue. Same thing would go here. You would simply decide what your party needed of you before combat. Of course, it's the out-of-combat part that really matters here.

It's also worth pointing out that an 11th level barbarian doesn't add all that much to an 11th level party, either, since by that level you can simply hire npc mercenaries (or even monsters) to fill the Barbarian's role (and then some) for the same price as their cut of the loot.

Arkhios
2018-06-09, 02:40 AM
Honestly?

If you must have a touch of divine spark, cleric isn't the way for you to go.

Paladin with Oath of Devotion is very similar in theme to a cleric, although the slow access to spells might be somewhat lame. Any oath could work though.

Divine Soul Sorcerer on the other hand is pretty good if you want specifically cleric spells starting from the first level.

Anyhow, as others have pointed out, spellcasting and rage don't mix up. But no one says you'd have to be raging non-stop every day.

KittenMagician
2018-06-15, 07:06 PM
Honestly?

If you must have a touch of divine spark, cleric isn't the way for you to go.

Paladin with Oath of Devotion is very similar in theme to a cleric, although the slow access to spells might be somewhat lame. Any oath could work though.

Divine Soul Sorcerer on the other hand is pretty good if you want specifically cleric spells starting from the first level.

Anyhow, as others have pointed out, spellcasting and rage don't mix up. But no one says you'd have to be raging non-stop every day.

im not sure you understand what i said before.
1. at most i would do 2 Lvls MC so i wouldn't make it to an oath
2. this would be mostly for RP purposes
3. i don't care about the spells all that much at all other than healing myself
4. i want war domain of cleric because The Blood God is a god of extreme violence and the extra attacks and pretty much guaranteed hit (+10)

Everyone that keeps talking about how i should MC with cleric or paladin or other classes seems to only be thinking in terms of game mechanics and not about how i want my character to be within the game. even so, i do appreciate everyone's input.

sophontteks
2018-06-15, 07:25 PM
No, its not worth it for your character.


im not sure you understand what i said before.
1. at most i would do 2 Lvls MC so i wouldn't make it to an oath
2. this would be mostly for RP purposes
3. i don't care about the spells all that much at all other than healing myself
4. i want war domain of cleric because The Blood God is a god of extreme violence and the extra attacks and pretty much guaranteed hit (+10)

Everyone that keeps talking about how i should MC with cleric or paladin or other classes seems to only be thinking in terms of game mechanics and not about how i want my character to be within the game. even so, i do appreciate everyone's input.

1. That's no problem. 2 level dip paladin is perfectly fine.

2. Paladins cast divine spells, a blessing from their diety, just like clerics.

3. You would not cast the spells with your paladin multiclass anyway, you would use them to smite, which straight adds to your damage. Your god blesses your attack and you roll additional damage die at the cost of a spell slot. It works with rage.

4.I'm not sure what you mean by the later part. That all sounds like stuff you are getting from barbarian levels.

We are talking mechanics because you are asking if its 'worth it' and because you do not need to multiclass at all to roleplay this. You can achieve everything you want with the worship without multi-classing at all. There are plenty of non-cleric religious fanatics.

CTurbo
2018-06-15, 07:30 PM
You have a great character concept, and you should go with it.

I think the biggest argument is Paladin can offer you the same RP benefits that Cleric does while also benefitting you from a game mechanics standpoint.

I've seen fanatical Paladins work very well.

The problem is you have to put SO much resource into your Wisdom at this point to get any benefit from even being a Cleric. At that point, you're not going to be a very good Barbarian anymore.

So I'm all for favoring RP/story/flavor over game mechanics, but I actively try to avoid doing things that are going to make me worse in the mechanics aspect.

Paladin just works immediately and almost just effectively with no extra effort.

Arkhios
2018-06-16, 03:10 AM
im not sure you understand what i said before.
1. at most i would do 2 Lvls MC so i wouldn't make it to an oath
2. this would be mostly for RP purposes
3. i don't care about the spells all that much at all other than healing myself
4. i want war domain of cleric because The Blood God is a god of extreme violence and the extra attacks and pretty much guaranteed hit (+10)

Everyone that keeps talking about how i should MC with cleric or paladin or other classes seems to only be thinking in terms of game mechanics and not about how i want my character to be within the game. even so, i do appreciate everyone's input.

I'm not sure you understood my reasoning.

Wis 11 and MC to Cleric = No Can Do

Rules As Written you must have Wis at least 13 to multiclass to and from Cleric (and Str at least 13 to multiclass to and from Barbarian). For a MAX 2-level-dip I don't see it's worth it (it's what you asked) to spend one ASI to increase your wisdom from 11 to 13 only to enable a dip of two levels in cleric, either.

That's why I recommended the second-best options: Paladin (which, by the way, do NOT receive any of their magic (incl. spells) from a deity but through their conviction instead; regardless, they can worship one, but it's merely flavor) and Divine Soul Sorcerer (which implies an actual touch of a divine being). Why I did this is that both classes rely on Charisma which your character seems to have plenty (17!) and as such require absolutely no extra effort from your part.

Regardless of how much you care about any nyances of the mechanics, to play the game at an even footing with the other players, you must abide to same rules as anyone else. That includes multiclassing rules. Note, though, that while your DM might allow multiclassing without meeting requirements by RAW, unless you say that such a houserule is in use, the community (that's us) is almost certainly going to assume that it isn't and refer to the mechanics as they are written and weigh the worthiness of your idea towards them.

sophontteks
2018-06-16, 06:22 AM
I thought the way divine spells worked is that they were all granted by a divine being.

Arkhios
2018-06-16, 08:35 AM
I thought the way divine spells worked is that they were all granted by a divine being.

Considering that cleric is the only class whose spellcasting is directly related to a deity, that's not quite true.

Rangers, Druids, and Paladins all cast divine spells, and none of them receive their spells from a divine being by default. It may have been otherwise earlier, but at least from around 3rd edition and forward, this has been the case.

In some settings (I'm looking at you, Forgotten Realms) all of those classes are required to worship a deity. But that's more because of the nature of the setting, not the nature of those classes, because in FR everyone is expected to worship a deity, or else their souls are lost into limbo when they die. It's important to remember that settings may impose additional rules or restrictions upon what's standard. These are not to be mistaken as universal things that apply to all settings.

sophontteks
2018-06-16, 09:11 AM
Considering that cleric is the only class whose spellcasting is directly related to a deity, that's not quite true.

Rangers, Druids, and Paladins all cast divine spells, and none of them receive their spells from a divine being by default. It may have been otherwise earlier, but at least from around 3rd edition and forward, this has been the case.

In some settings (I'm looking at you, Forgotten Realms) all of those classes are required to worship a deity. But that's more because of the nature of the setting, not the nature of those classes, because in FR everyone is expected to worship a deity, or else their souls are lost into limbo when they die. It's important to remember that settings may impose additional rules or restrictions upon what's standard. These are not to be mistaken as universal things that apply to all settings.
Hmmm. I looked into the PHB a bit about this. I've been under the impression that divine powers are always a gift from a divine being.

From PHB on spells-
"The spells of clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers are called divine magic. These spellcasters’ access to the Weave is mediated by divine power— gods, the divine forces of nature, or the sacred weight of a paladin’s oath."
In all cases divine power is granted as a gift by a divine force. If a divine force can mediate powers, it must be a being, as this is a human property. A force can't mediate powers without possessing some ability to think and judge.

From PHB on Paladin-
"Although many paladins are devoted to gods of good, a paladin’s power comes as much from a
commitment to justice itself as it does from a god."
Their power comes from a commitment to justice just as much as it comes from a god. The thing is, a god is still definitely involved.

In the druid spellcasting it states that druids gain their spells through nature deities or nature itself and goes onto explain nature worship as worshipping the "old faith." Are the forces of nature a divine being? In some cases here I think its a little disconnected where nature isn't a single being but many forces which can grant specific divine powers to those who know how to communicate with them. Rangers operate the same way.

So they wrote it a little loose, but I think these are all cases of a divine, or supernatural being granting powers to divine casters. Not necessarily a god though.

Sorlock Master
2018-06-16, 09:39 AM
@OP Barbarian is one of the few classes I think are best when they are pure. Adding 4 to Con and Str is very good.

In your situation I would have to agree with others. Going Paladin would complament you much better.