Multiweapon Fighting pushed

[cartejos]

Premise: Multiweapon Fighting houseruled to be use-able without 3+ arms, but as long as you are using at least 2 off-hand weapons, all of which are manufactured; and, in the case of a monk, none are unarmed.

Totemist 2 with Threefold Mask of the Chimera gives 2 Bite Attacks and a Gore Attack to start, the Bite Attacks can use weapons with the Mouthpick enhancement. Boom! 4 Weapon fighting after a 2 level dip

Ambidexterity removes the penalty for off-hand attacks, so using One-Handed weapons doesn't really matter other than the -4 to your initial Iteratives when you get them, so using something like a Falchion in each hand/mouth would be cool

With a -2 to each attack, the character could use 2 of each of the Hidden Weapons from complete scoundrel
Boot Blades, Elbow Blades, Sleeve Blades, Knee Blades (8 Total, that's 12 Weapons, 4 Daggers, 2 Short Swords, 2 Punching Daggers)

4 weapons (hands/mouth) could be Crescent Knives to DOUBLE the number of attacks they deal

The character in mind is going to be some sort of elf without templates.
However any sort of input about races/templates would still be very intriguing and welcome. Their is some sort of template that can be had to give multiple heads that I believe all get bite attacks, that'd be something, even if it's an unused something.

[ViperMagnum357]

You can use Scourges in place of Crescent Knives for another attack roll per attack, but they are one handed rather than light. You realize there is no Ambidexterity in 3.5, right? The TWF and MWF lines were modified to include its benefits. If you are going pure martial, why not go whole hog and just maximize your arms? Most MWF builds accept a bunch of RHD and LA to make sure they are not just really good at close range, but have so many attacks they resemble a blender.

The usual builds for MWF are to start with non-psionic Thri-Kreen for 2 Monstrous Humanoid RHD and LA +1, which gives 4 arms and +4 Dex to easily reach the feat prereqs, if you want to take them. The Multi-headed template from Savage Species gives +2 RHD and +2 LA, and offers two huge benefits-you get your full strength bonus with all manufactured attacks, effectively giving you no off hands; it also allows you to make all your manufactured attacks without penalty, saving you 4-5 feat slots in the MWF chain and removing the last -2/-4 penalty for using light/one handed weapons, which you normally have to do business with unless you take Tempest for strictly TWF or Dervish for Scimitars. The template also provides two usable bonus feats in Improved Initiative and Combat Reflexes.

The next template to consider is Obah-Blessed from Dungeon Magazine 136, which comes in 2 varieties; extra 2 arms and net +12 abilities for LA +2, or an extra 4 arms and net +20 abilities for LA +3. It also provides one MWF bonus feat, which is overlaid by the Multi-headed template but will still save you a slot if your DM nixes SS on principle.

The last major consideration is the Fang of Lolth prc from Song and Silence, a 3.0 book; the class was never updated, but has no problems with a direct port and is still legal as is outside the most stringent DMs. A 10 level class nominally built off a rogue chassis, including some slow Sneak Attack progression and good skills; the relevant bit is level nine, where you grow 4 extra spider arms that can be extended or retracted at will-no good for fine manipulation, but they come with claw attacks and can explicitly wield weapons.

Altogether, that could net you 12 arms attacking with no penalties before grafts, Incarnum, or extra equipment like mouth picks or hidden weapons. It will fill out most of your first 20 levels in single stack, but is much more viable in Gestalt/Tristalt and you can pick and choose in single stack for what you want.

[daremetoidareyo]

Take a look at the boot blades or bladed boots I forget which. Some of them are usable with multi weapon fighting. The gar hogchoker build from an Iron Chef a little bit ago uses the one that can be paired with multi weapon fighting.

[cartejos]

You can use Scourges in place of Crescent Knives for another attack roll per attack, but they are one handed rather than light.
Where are these? Same Dragon Mag as the crescents?


You realize there is no Ambidexterity in 3.5, right? The TWF and MWF lines were modified to include its benefits.
Then would Oversized TWF count for Multiweapon Fighting too?


The usual builds for MWF are to start with non-psionic Thri-Kreen for 2 Monstrous Humanoid RHD and LA +1, which gives 4 arms and +4 Dex to easily reach the feat prereqs, if you want to take them.
What about the race, I can't recall which, but it's a 4-armed thing that qualifies for twf without needing dex or maybe it just makes it str instead.

[Darrin]

Where are these? Same Dragon Mag as the crescents?


The scourge printed in Complete Warrior doesn't get any additional attacks. There's a scourge in Dragon #353, but I don't feel like looking it up at the moment.



Then would Oversized TWF count for Multiweapon Fighting too?


It's... not clear. MWF wasn't entirely updated for the 3.5 rules, so we don't have a lot of rules text that explains how MWF interacts with other TWF-related feats. All we know is that MWF "replaces" TWF for creatures with more than two hands. Based on that, I treat MWF as being identical to TWF for the purposes of prereqs.



What about the race, I can't recall which, but it's a 4-armed thing that qualifies for twf without needing dex or maybe it just makes it str instead.

Diopsid in Dragon Compendium. While they do have a racial ability that allows them to ignore the Dex requirement for TWF-related feats, it's not clear if this includes MWF, even though they can't technically take TWF itself (they have four hands).

[cartejos]

I've always read the line from Multiweapon fighting "This feat replaces two weapon fighting for creatures with more than 2 arms" as "Any time you would gain a two weapon property, if you have more than 2 arms, replace it with Multiweapon"

[ViperMagnum357]

The TWF -> MWF interaction has always been vague. The Scourge is Dragon Magazine 275, same as Crescent Knives-essentially, the Scourge is the one handed version of the Crescent Knife, upgrading to one handed to turn every attack roll into 3 rolls rather than 2.

Diopsids can use weapons one size larger than normal by stabilizing them with their second pair of arms, but suffer double penalties to using those arms to wield extra weapons, making them a poor choice for MWF builds when considering the rest of their abilities.

[daremetoidareyo]

The TWF -> MWF interaction has always been vague. The Scourge is Dragon Magazine 275, same as Crescent Knives-essentially, the Scourge is the one handed version of the Crescent Knife, upgrading to one handed to turn every attack roll into 3 rolls rather than 2.

Diopsids can use weapons one size larger than normal by stabilizing them with their second pair of arms, but suffer double penalties to using those arms to wield extra weapons, making them a poor choice for MWF builds when considering the rest of their abilities.

Why do that when you can put stump knives on all four limbs? Wear some boot blades and a spiked helmet and you got yourself seven attacks

[ViperMagnum357]

Why do that when you can put stump knives on all four limbs? Wear some boot blades and a spiked helmet and you got yourself seven attacks

Compared to any other one-handed weapon? Because the Scourge triples your attack rolls, allowing you to triple any flat bonuses or rider effects, for each attack you would normally make, for no other cost than an EWP for a weapon with terrible base damage.