Need help with new character!

[Foreverknight]

Hello all I'm playing a 3.5 game and my cleric fighter just got murdered by my own team because I looked a little sick. But the DM and another guy had half made me another character that was a fighter. I was a bit bored with my cleric so the DM thought it'd be good. Anyway while I was looking for feats for this spike chain lvl 12 fighter I came across the reaping mauler class and thought that could be alot of fun. So my question is what would be the best build for a reaping mauler? Or should I stick with the spike chain fighter they half made for me? I think one guy was trying to break the game and make it so it would permanently trip the enemy and get attacks. And he has a war horse too for some reason? I also don't know alot about stuff since I haven't played to much so please explain what acronyms you use. Thanks

[AnimeTheCat]

Hello all I'm playing a 3.5 game and my cleric fighter just got murdered by my own team because I looked a little sick. But the DM and another guy had half made me another character that was a fighter. I was a bit bored with my cleric so the DM thought it'd be good. Anyway while I was looking for feats for this spike chain lvl 12 fighter I came across the reaping mauler class and thought that could be alot of fun. So my question is what would be the best build for a reaping mauler? Or should I stick with the spike chain fighter they half made for me? I think one guy was trying to break the game and make it so it would permanently trip the enemy and get attacks. And he has a war horse too for some reason? I also don't know alot about stuff since I haven't played to much so please explain what acronyms you use. Thanks

Reaping mauler is kind of a lackluster class. For instance, it forces you to wait until level 6 to be competent at grappling. Overall, it doesn’t really make you a superb grappler, the class only grants you +2 to your checks over the 5 levels, and gives you abilities with an associate attribute that you’re probably not all that interested in (wisdom) that are a major drain on the already poor action economy you have as a grappler.

In general, these forums tend to encourage tripping as the only viable combat style, so be prepared for that.

Now, some questions. What is the overall power level of your party? What do their builds and such look like? Are you tied to the concept of Grappling? Do you have a vision in your head when you see the class “Reaping Mauler”?

[Foreverknight]

Reaping mauler is kind of a lackluster class. For instance, it forces you to wait until level 6 to be competent at grappling. Overall, it doesn’t really make you a superb grappler, the class only grants you +2 to your checks over the 5 levels, and gives you abilities with an associate attribute that you’re probably not all that interested in (wisdom) that are a major drain on the already poor action economy you have as a grappler.

In general, these forums tend to encourage tripping as the only viable combat style, so be prepared for that.

Now, some questions. What is the overall power level of your party? What do their builds and such look like? Are you tied to the concept of Grappling? Do you have a vision in your head when you see the class “Reaping Mauler”?


I'm not tied to the grappling class, I was just looking through the complete warrior book and saw it and it sounded fun. We are 12th level, I was a cleric, we have a frenzied barbarian, muticlass rogue that doesn't really seem like a rogue, Ranger, wizard and a new character (the dms wife just joined) but I'm not sure what class but she can heal and stuff. The barbarian likes to just kill and was the first person to attack me and the wizard was right behind him and he likes to teleport, scorching ray, fireball, disintegrate and dispel everything because he has made a million scrolls. The Ranger seems to roll bad and doesn't hit often (he joined the fight against me half way through and summoned a damn shark to attack me!) the rogue sat on the boat and didn't attack me but called dibs on my loot. Anyway this new character the DM and the rogue made was complete but then decided not to just give me a full and mostly broken character. I am newer to d&d than them and this is the furtherest into a campaign I've ever been because other groups always break up so that's why I'm here. Im at work so I'm not looking at the character sheet at the moment But the half made character has a vicious spiked chain, mythril plate, war horse, some gloves that add dexterity, a belt of resistance or something, his dex is his highest Stat, he's a human fighter, I think I get to pick 7 feats. Idk how to optimize that guy or if I should just go with something completely different. I'd also like to be able to beat the barbarian in a fight but now he has die hard and can't die for 7 turns while frenzied so I have no idea how to beat that.

[Goaty14]

In general, these forums tend to encourage tripping and charging as the only viable combat style, so be prepared for that.

Fixed. :/

You probably shouldn't go for grappling, given that it can be easily negated (Freedom of Movement, Travel Domain, Somatic-Free teleportation, etc), especially at this level. That, and reaping mauler is literally the worst way to do it. I could list out the reasons why, but let's leave it at one of the prerequisite feats specifically helps you get out of grapples, while the PrC is purely focused on staying in grapples.

[Foreverknight]

Fixed. :/

You probably shouldn't go for grappling, given that it can be easily negated (Freedom of Movement, Travel Domain, Somatic-Free teleportation, etc), especially at this level. That, and reaping mauler is literally the worst way to do it. I could list out the reasons why, but let's leave it at one of the prerequisite feats specifically helps you get out of grapples, while the PrC is purely focused on staying in grapples.

So what do you suggest then?

[Nifft]

Level 12 is right in the range where full-casters have already begun to dominate the game.

What's the rest of your party?

Are you giving up Cleric because it's too strong for the stuff that challenges the rest of the party, or something else?

[flappeercraft]

I would reccomend sticking to the spiked chain part of the deal and focus on tripping. For that you will need as much reach as possible which due to being human and using a reach weapon is 10ft. The goal therefore is to increase your trip bonuses and your reach. If you can I would reccomend changing your highest attribute from dexterity to strength so as to improve your trip and attack modifiers and having your second highest be dexterity. As for the feats I would reccomend taking Combat Expertise from PHB, Improved Trip from PHB, Combat reflexes from PHB and Knock-Down from S&F. That way you can attack normally and on every attack that you deal 10 damage or more you can automatically try trip whoever you hit. For a higher reach I would reccomend asking the wizard of the group to cast Enlarge Person on you which would among other things increase your reach to 20ft with the Spiked Chain.

Also, for you to understand any abbreviations whether on this thread or in the future, this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?18512-Common-Acronyms-Abbreviations-and-Terms) should help.

[Foreverknight]

Level 12 is right in the range where full-casters have already begun to dominate the game.

What's the rest of your party?

Are you giving up Cleric because it's too strong for the stuff that challenges the rest of the party, or something else?

Barbarian, Ranger, rogue, wizard and some sort of healer.

I was bored of not really doing anything other than casting bulls strength and other buff on my barbarian.

[Nifft]

Barbarian, Ranger, rogue, wizard and some sort of healer.

I was bored of not really doing anything other than casting bulls strength and other buff on my barbarian.

That would indeed be boring.

If you made a straight-up full-class Cleric, you ought to be able to out-damage the Barbarian significantly, either by self-buffing or by using minions.

Are you interested in that type of thing? You could even do a thing where you buff everyone (including yourself) and then wade into melee.

Alternately, if you're sick of being a Cleric but you don't hate spellcasting, have you considered being a Druid? You can shape-shift into a combat form and still have spells available for non-combat situations.

[Foreverknight]

I would reccomend sticking to the spiked chain part of the deal and focus on tripping. For that you will need as much reach as possible which due to being human and using a reach weapon is 10ft. The goal therefore is to increase your trip bonuses and your reach. If you can I would reccomend changing your highest attribute from dexterity to strength so as to improve your trip and attack modifiers and having your second highest be dexterity. As for the feats I would reccomend taking Combat Expertise from PHB, Improved Trip from PHB, Combat reflexes from PHB and Knock-Down from S&F. That way you can attack normally and on every attack that you deal 10 damage or more you can automatically try trip whoever you hit. For a higher reach I would reccomend asking the wizard of the group to cast Enlarge Person on you which would among other things increase your reach to 20ft with the Spiked Chain.

Also, for you to understand any abbreviations whether on this thread or in the future, this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?18512-Common-Acronyms-Abbreviations-and-Terms) should help.


So I asked the guy about what he was going for and he said this.

"Combat expertise, weapon finesse, whirlwind attack, monkey grip, and exotic weapon proficiency (spike chain).

The monkey grip is so you can use a large size weapon without penalty (you have a large (extra long) Spike Chain), weapon Finesse is to apply your dex to combat roles, allows you to focus on only 1 of the skills for combat

Whirlwind attack allows you to, as a full round attack, use your highest BAB attack against each enemy in your reach (15 ft from the large spike chain)

Combat expertise allows AoOs of 1+Dex... meaning you'd have ~5 Attack of Opportunity each round (only 1 per target)

The Spike chain has a special ability that if you make a successful attack roll, you can automatically turn that into a trip attempt. When the target is prone (after your trip) and moves to stand, that provokes an AoO, allowing you to hit him again, tripping him... the cycle repeats.

The rest of the feats were things like weapon specialization, weapon focus, 2 weapon fighting, improved trip... basically things to enhance the build, but not much else. The build can be made using all the feats from a 6th level human fighter, so all the rest of them are just amplifying the build."

[Foreverknight]

That would indeed be boring.

If you made a straight-up full-class Cleric, you ought to be able to out-damage the Barbarian significantly, either by self-buffing or by using minions.

Are you interested in that type of thing? You could even do a thing where you buff everyone (including yourself) and then wade into melee.

Alternately, if you're sick of being a Cleric but you don't hate spellcasting, have you considered being a Druid? You can shape-shift into a combat form and still have spells available for non-combat situations.

They already killed my cleric and then the barbarian ripped his skull out and put it in his pocket.

[Nifft]

They already killed my cleric and then the barbarian ripped his skull out and put it in his pocket.

Right, but the next one could also be a Cleric.

Just a different type of Cleric, one which is more interested in participating in combat.


Alternately, how do you feel about being a Druid?

[RaiKirah]

Well, if you enjoyed the flavor of being a Cleric but want to hit things harder and be less pigeonholed into buffing your party you could go for a Divine Crusader from Complete Divine (CD) - you get a single domain's spell list only, but there's a fair amount of variation there, and which you pick will have a dramatic impact on your playstyle. With a Paladin entry you can also get a good mount using the feat Holy Mount (Dragon Magazine #325) you can get a strong mount, though other entries will work fine (you can get in with a Fighter as you only need to buy 2 ranks of Knowledge (religion) cross class, and then you could keep everything people have already suggested).

The previous suggestions on how to make a trip fighter are spot on, though you might also look at Stand Still for additional crowd control. If you don't mind being weird looking (and maybe evil?) you can take Willing Deformity and Deformity (Tall) from Heroes of Horror to increase your reach without the need for the wizard to cast on you. Other ways to do so include Warshaper lvl3 from Complete Warrior (CW), though qualifying can be a pain, with difficulty somewhat dependent on DM, and the class lends itself to a Natural Attack build, which has a different feel to many other melees if you're looking for something different.

Anywhoo, just spitballing here and may have gone outside the scope of your question, but it's late and these ideas popped into my head

[Foreverknight]

Right, but the next one could also be a Cleric.

Just a different type of Cleric, one which is more interested in participating in combat.


Alternately, how do you feel about being a Druid?

Well I could buff myself but it still didn't seem to be much damage and I had 136 hp and a 36 AC so I was a tank and in front.

I also am not much of a fan of magic, it seems to complicated to keep track of it all.

[Foreverknight]

Well, if you enjoyed the flavor of being a Cleric but want to hit things harder and be less pigeonholed into buffing your party you could go for a Divine Crusader from Complete Divine (CD) - you get a single domain's spell list only, but there's a fair amount of variation there, and which you pick will have a dramatic impact on your playstyle. With a Paladin entry you can also get a good mount using the feat Holy Mount (Dragon Magazine #325) you can get a strong mount, though other entries will work fine (you can get in with a Fighter as you only need to buy 2 ranks of Knowledge (religion) cross class, and then you could keep everything people have already suggested).

The previous suggestions on how to make a trip fighter are spot on, though you might also look at Stand Still for additional crowd control. If you don't mind being weird looking (and maybe evil?) you can take Willing Deformity and Deformity (Tall) from Heroes of Horror to increase your reach without the need for the wizard to cast on you. Other ways to do so include Warshaper lvl3 from Complete Warrior (CW), though qualifying can be a pain, with difficulty somewhat dependent on DM, and the class lends itself to a Natural Attack build, which has a different feel to many other melees if you're looking for something different.

Anywhoo, just spitballing here and may have gone outside the scope of your question, but it's late and these ideas popped into my head



Couldn't be a paladin since my party is practically almost evil while being neutral and chaotic.

[Nifft]

Well I could buff myself but it still didn't seem to be much damage and I had 136 hp and a 36 AC so I was a tank and in front.

I also am not much of a fan of magic, it seems to complicated to keep track of it all.

It's true that magic is complicated, but it's also very powerful, and being powerful can be a lot of fun.

If you don't want magic, then a decent middle-ground is Tome of Battle, which gives you maneuvers that increase in power with your level, but are much simpler than spells.

The simplest class for face-stabbing is probably the Warblade. A level 12 Warblade is awesome, and brings a lot of power without too much complexity.

You could do a spiked chain guy if you wanted, or a polearm tripper (halberd (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#halberd) / guisarme (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#guisarme)), or just a guy with a really big sword.

[RaiKirah]

Couldn't be a paladin since my party is practically almost evil while being neutral and chaotic.

May I direct you to the Paladin of Tyrrany and Paladin of Slaughter Alternate Class Features (Unearthed Arcana)? They are Lawful and Chaotic Evil respectively. In any case, if the Divine Crusader is of interest mechanically, it's rather trivially easy to qualify for even as straight Fighter, though fluff requirements do need you to somehow be a champion of a god. Note also no alignment restriction; find a god of your correct alignment with an interesting domain spell list and go to town

[Foreverknight]

May I direct you to the Paladin of Tyrrany and Paladin of Slaughter Alternate Class Features (Unearthed Arcana)? They are Lawful and Chaotic Evil respectively. In any case, if the Divine Crusader is of interest mechanically, it's rather trivially easy to qualify for even as straight Fighter, though fluff requirements do need you to somehow be a champion of a god. Note also no alignment restriction; find a god of your correct alignment with an interesting domain spell list and go to town

So I have a hard enough time just building a lvl 1 character so building a lvl 12 from scratch is a mountain for me lol this is the furtherest game I've ever gotten in because other groups other people start dropping out so I've never made it past lvl 4 lol

[Tytalus]

The monkey grip is so you can use a large size weapon without penalty (you have a large (extra long) Spike Chain), weapon Finesse is to apply your dex to combat roles, allows you to focus on only 1 of the skills for combat

Whirlwind attack allows you to, as a full round attack, use your highest BAB attack against each enemy in your reach (15 ft from the large spike chain)


Weapon size has no impact on reach. As a reach weapon, a spiked chain of any size simply doubles your reach.

[RaiKirah]

I'll second Nifft on the straight Warblade if Tome of Battle is available - you'll stay relevant much longer than straight Fighter. Your selection of Manuevers can change your playstyle pretty dramatically and allow you to customize how you want to play.

Since you haven't yet told me you're not interested in a Divine Crusader, here's a sample build with Fighter entry:

Fighter 7/Divine Crusader 5
Feats:
1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain)
H: Combat Expertise
FB1: Improved Trip
FB2: Knock Down
3: Combat Reflexes
FB4: Power Attack
6: Weapon Focus (Battle-axe/other deity favored weapon)
9: open
12: open
DCB5: Weapon Specialization (Battle-axe/other deity favored weapon)

Open feats might be: Improved Bullrush and Shock Trooper, Travel Devotion, Knowledge Devotion, Leap Attack, etc.

Prereqs: Knowledge (religion) 2, STR 15, INT 13

With Tempus as your Chaotic Neutral Deity you get access to the War Domain for your casting, and at 5th level you can cast: Magic Weapon, Spiritual Weapon, Magic Vestment, Divine Power, Flame Strike.

Feel free to substitute another deity for a different domain and favored weapon (if you take Zoser from Sandstorm you can consolidate on Spiked Chain, though I'm not convinced the spells are all that useful)

[Darrin]

Ok, so... Reaping Mauler is terribad. First, it doesn't actually make you all that better at grappling: you get a +2 on grapple checks, which is weaksauce. Second, most of the class abilities give you bonuses for getting *out* of a grapple... which is an odd thing to get good at, when the entire class is supposed to highlight getting *into* a grapple. And third, if you try to get better at grappling by increasing your size, you lose access to your class abilities because Clever Wrestling requires you to be medium-sized.

However... if we are willing to accept that it is bad, there is a work-around that makes it not so terrible. If you take three levels of Leviathan Hunter (from Stormwrack), you get Clever Wrestling as a bonus feat, regardless of your size.

So. Sounds like we've got 12 levels to work with, we want to be at least Large, and we want to avoid Level Adjustment. Best way to do that is start with an Anthropomorphic Whale or Anthropomorphic Huge Viper Snake. Actually... I said we wanted to avoid Level Adjustment, but Anthropomorphic Giant Constrictor Snake is pretty tempting: 3 racial HD, and LA +1, but it gets Improved Grab... but loses Constrict. Ok, not so tempting anymore. We can get Improved Grab via Barbarian 1 with Spirit Bear Totem (Complete Champion) or Scaled Horror 1 (Savage Species). City Brawler Barbarian (Dragon #349) with Spirit Bear Totem might work best... you can swap Rage for the Whirling Frenzy ACF (Unearthed Arcana) or the Ferocity ACF (Cityscape Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)).

Snake 3/Ranger 1/Barbarian 1/Leviathan Hunter 3/Reaping Mauler 4 = ECL 12.

1) Snake 1. Feat: Hidden Talent (expansion). Improved Grab. Constrict.
2) Snake 2.
3) Snake 3. Feat: Iron Will.
4) Ranger 1. Bonus: Track. Favored Enemy: Aberrations.
5) City Brawler Barbarian 1. Bonus: Improved Unarmed Strike. Bonus: TWF (unarmed only). Spirit Bear Totem -> Improved Grab.
6) Leviathan Hunter 1. Feat: Martial Study -> Mountain Hammer (Tome of Battle).
7) Leviathan Hunter 2.
8) Leviathan Hunter 3. Bonus: Clever Wrestling.
9) Reaping Mauler 1. Feat: Choke Hold (Unearthed Arcana). Bonus: Improved Grapple. Bonus: Mobility.
10) Reaping Mauler 2.
11) Reaping Mauler 3.
12) Reaping Mauler 4. Feat: Martial Stance ->Crushing Weight of the Mountain (Tome of Battle).

[RaiKirah]

City Brawler Barbarian (Dragon #349) Bonus: Improved Unarmed Strike. Bonus: TWF (unarmed only)

This is cool, and I wish Dragon Mag was available for Iron Chef competitions - wanting to two weapon fight unarmed/natural attack pounce is surprising ubiquitous for me...

[Foreverknight]

Ok, so... Reaping Mauler is terribad. First, it doesn't actually make you all that better at grappling: you get a +2 on grapple checks, which is weaksauce. Second, most of the class abilities give you bonuses for getting *out* of a grapple... which is an odd thing to get good at, when the entire class is supposed to highlight getting *into* a grapple. And third, if you try to get better at grappling by increasing your size, you lose access to your class abilities because Clever Wrestling requires you to be medium-sized.

However... if we are willing to accept that it is bad, there is a work-around that makes it not so terrible. If you take three levels of Leviathan Hunter (from Stormwrack), you get Clever Wrestling as a bonus feat, regardless of your size.

So. Sounds like we've got 12 levels to work with, we want to be at least Large, and we want to avoid Level Adjustment. Best way to do that is start with an Anthropomorphic Whale or Anthropomorphic Huge Viper Snake. Actually... I said we wanted to avoid Level Adjustment, but Anthropomorphic Giant Constrictor Snake is pretty tempting: 3 racial HD, and LA +1, but it gets Improved Grab... but loses Constrict. Ok, not so tempting anymore. We can get Improved Grab via Barbarian 1 with Spirit Bear Totem (Complete Champion) or Scaled Horror 1 (Savage Species). City Brawler Barbarian (Dragon #349) with Spirit Bear Totem might work best... you can swap Rage for the Whirling Frenzy ACF (Unearthed Arcana) or the Ferocity ACF (Cityscape Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)).

Snake 3/Ranger 1/Barbarian 1/Leviathan Hunter 3/Reaping Mauler 4 = ECL 12.

1) Snake 1. Feat: Hidden Talent (expansion). Improved Grab. Constrict.
2) Snake 2.
3) Snake 3. Feat: Iron Will.
4) Ranger 1. Bonus: Track. Favored Enemy: Aberrations.
5) City Brawler Barbarian 1. Bonus: Improved Unarmed Strike. Bonus: TWF (unarmed only). Spirit Bear Totem -> Improved Grab.
6) Leviathan Hunter 1. Feat: Martial Study -> Mountain Hammer (Tome of Battle).
7) Leviathan Hunter 2.
8) Leviathan Hunter 3. Bonus: Clever Wrestling.
9) Reaping Mauler 1. Feat: Choke Hold (Unearthed Arcana). Bonus: Improved Grapple. Bonus: Mobility.
10) Reaping Mauler 2.
11) Reaping Mauler 3.
12) Reaping Mauler 4. Feat: Martial Stance ->Crushing Weight of the Mountain (Tome of Battle).



Sounds like alot of books.

[Foreverknight]

I'll second Nifft on the straight Warblade if Tome of Battle is available - you'll stay relevant much longer than straight Fighter. Your selection of Manuevers can change your playstyle pretty dramatically and allow you to customize how you want to play.

Since you haven't yet told me you're not interested in a Divine Crusader, here's a sample build with Fighter entry:

Fighter 7/Divine Crusader 5
Feats:
1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain)
H: Combat Expertise
FB1: Improved Trip
FB2: Knock Down
3: Combat Reflexes
FB4: Power Attack
6: Weapon Focus (Battle-axe/other deity favored weapon)
9: open
12: open
DCB5: Weapon Specialization (Battle-axe/other deity favored weapon)

Open feats might be: Improved Bullrush and Shock Trooper, Travel Devotion, Knowledge Devotion, Leap Attack, etc.

Prereqs: Knowledge (religion) 2, STR 15, INT 13

With Tempus as your Chaotic Neutral Deity you get access to the War Domain for your casting, and at 5th level you can cast: Magic Weapon, Spiritual Weapon, Magic Vestment, Divine Power, Flame Strike.

Feel free to substitute another deity for a different domain and favored weapon (if you take Zoser from Sandstorm you can consolidate on Spiked Chain, though I'm not convinced the spells are all that useful)

So you are saying either of these would be better than the trip build?

[RaiKirah]

So you are saying either of these would be better than the trip build?

In a word: yes. The first can be a trip build with your normal feats (1, 3, 6, 9,12 can include Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip, Exotic Weapon Proficiency Spiked Chain, Knock Down) plus gets maneuvers from Warblade to add versatility. The second is a trip build with some limited Spellcasting to improve it (only one spell known at each spell level, so not a lot of book-keeping once you've decided on the domain you want).

[Foreverknight]

In a word: yes. The first can be a trip build with your normal feats (1, 3, 6, 9,12 can include Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip, Exotic Weapon Proficiency Spiked Chain, Knock Down) plus gets maneuvers from Warblade to add versatility. The second is a trip build with some limited Spellcasting to improve it (only one spell known at each spell level, so not a lot of book-keeping once you've decided on the domain you want).


What would be a good warblade build? And what about ronin?

[AnimeTheCat]

Without Bull's Strength, how much damage is the Barbarian typically doing?

When fighting, how much damage is the rogue doing?

Typically, how does the ranger spend his/her actions?

I ask these questions because they will determine whether I recommend you learn the Tome of Battle information or not. If your barbarian is only doing 1d12+10 damage without a power attack or 1d12+34 with a full power attack, you'll probably massively outdamage him/her with a well built warblade.

On other notes, what kind of character do you feel like playing? It really sounds like your party is just in it for the funs and that well thought-out party compisition isn't at the forefront of everyone's mind. If you feel like playing a swordsmaster, there are lots of ways to do that.

I don't need much, maybe just an itching feeling of wanting to play a certain thing would be fine. But that would really help me with my suggestions for what kind of build. I'll try and keep it pretty simple and spell out what I did so that you can see my personal though process and how I go about building characters.

[RaiKirah]

I think it might be helpful for us if you could give a brief description of what you want you charavter to do. For example:

Stand in one olancr and trip everyone that comes nearby

Leap around the battlefield stabbing folks

Commanding your compatriots and controlling the battle by where and when everyone moves (friend and for alike)

Wield Eldritch/Divine energies to smite your foes from up close and personal

Slip through the battlefield unnoticed, stabbing fools

Skirt the edges of a fight shooting folks full of arrows

Be xxx awesome character from yyy piece of media


Once we know what you want to do we can help you figure out how to do it as simply or complicatedly as you like (Robinhood is relatively easy, Archer from Fate/Stay Night is rather more complex)

[Foreverknight]

Without Bull's Strength, how much damage is the Barbarian typically doing?

When fighting, how much damage is the rogue doing?

Typically, how does the ranger spend his/her actions?

I ask these questions because they will determine whether I recommend you learn the Tome of Battle information or not. If your barbarian is only doing 1d12+10 damage without a power attack or 1d12+34 with a full power attack, you'll probably massively outdamage him/her with a well built warblade.

On other notes, what kind of character do you feel like playing? It really sounds like your party is just in it for the funs and that well thought-out party compisition isn't at the forefront of everyone's mind. If you feel like playing a swordsmaster, there are lots of ways to do that.

I don't need much, maybe just an itching feeling of wanting to play a certain thing would be fine. But that would really help me with my suggestions for what kind of build. I'll try and keep it pretty simple and spell out what I did so that you can see my personal though process and how I go about building characters.

I think the barbarian typically does at least 24 dmg and max of 120 or so.

The rogue I couldn't really say, she's joined our party not super long ago and I think does alright dmg but she's multiclassed alot so shes probably barely a rogue.

The Ranger just shoots arrows and doesn't want to use his magic (that is until I went underwater with water breathing to get away from them trying to kill me!)

The wizard does stupid dmg and is rolling 48 D6s for his dmg unless you make your reflex save then he only rolls 24 D6s.

I only played a cleric to start with because I wanted to balance the team, warblade sounds like it could be fun. I have always like warrior type characters. Have you read the wheel of time or the storm light archives? Characters like rand al'thor, Lan mandragoron, kaladin and dalinar kholin are awesome.

[Foreverknight]

I think it might be helpful for us if you could give a brief description of what you want you charavter to do. For example:

Stand in one olancr and trip everyone that comes nearby

Leap around the battlefield stabbing folks

Commanding your compatriots and controlling the battle by where and when everyone moves (friend and for alike)

Wield Eldritch/Divine energies to smite your foes from up close and personal

Slip through the battlefield unnoticed, stabbing fools

Skirt the edges of a fight shooting folks full of arrows

Be xxx awesome character from yyy piece of media


Once we know what you want to do we can help you figure out how to do it as simply or complicatedly as you like (Robinhood is relatively easy, Archer from Fate/Stay Night is rather more complex)

I enjoy being in the fight as well as commanding the battlefield but knowing my team they would all just do their own thing and not listen to tactics.

[RaiKirah]

Characters like rand al'thor, Lan mandragoron, kaladin and dalinar kholin are awesome.

Yes, yes they are :) They are also very different mechanically

Rand is definitely a Gish, probably would go with a Wu Jen base for the Lightning Blade spell to be able to make a sword out of thin air. More thought would be needed to get this one right.

Lan you could do with Warblade into Eternal Blade using a Katana focusing on Diamond Mind maneuvers, though you would have to be an Elf. There are other ways to do him (Kensai maybe?)

Kaladin is kinda difficult, again probably a Gish, maybe a swiftblade actually....hmmmmm

Dhalinar I'd probably go for Champion of Gwynharwyf with a smattering of Marshal levels


Would be kinda fun to flesh these out.

I think you want to spend some time looking at the maneuvers in ToB and making a Warblade. It's a cool class and can do some really fun things. Use some of your feats for Martial Study to pick up some Shadow Hand maneuvers for Shadow Jaunt et. al. for combat teleportation. If you pick up Power Attack, Leap Attack, and Shocktrooper you're going to do as much damage as the Barbarian as well as have utility from maneuvers. good times.

[Foreverknight]

Yes, yes they are :) They are also very different mechanically

Rand is definitely a Gish, probably would go with a Wu Jen base for the Lightning Blade spell to be able to make a sword out of thin air. More thought would be needed to get this one right.

Lan you could do with Warblade into Eternal Blade using a Katana focusing on Diamond Mind maneuvers, though you would have to be an Elf. There are other ways to do him (Kensai maybe?)

Kaladin is kinda difficult, again probably a Gish, maybe a swiftblade actually....hmmmmm

Dhalinar I'd probably go for Champion of Gwynharwyf with a smattering of Marshal levels


Would be kinda fun to flesh these out.

I think you want to spend some time looking at the maneuvers in ToB and making a Warblade. It's a cool class and can do some really fun things. Use some of your feats for Martial Study to pick up some Shadow Hand maneuvers for Shadow Jaunt et. al. for combat teleportation. If you pick up Power Attack, Leap Attack, and Shocktrooper you're going to do as much damage as the Barbarian as well as have utility from maneuvers. good times.

I thought I was spelling Dhalinar wrong lol it looked off. I originally wanted to turn my cleric into a character like Kaladin but spears seemed lacking compared to swords and axes.

So it seems like the Lan and Dhalinar characters would be the less complicated to flesh out and play.

[DMVerdandi]

1. Is there any reason your party decided to kill you other than looking "sick". I mean, you are spending time there trying to have fun too... Sadly, cleric is DEFINITELY an awesome class, and with a little more in game experience, you would have realized short of the wizard, you would have pound for pound been one of the best in the group.
I know you can't always choose the game you are in, but it's a team game, and if the only teamwork in the game is to kill YOU, and you are a PC, that's not good.

2.
3.5 in my opinion does not do vanilla combat very well. It's basically *I full attack* with no variation in what you do. Feats attempt to mitigate it, but even real world martial arts simulate more diversity in combat attacks. However, it does have some really fun and flavorful supplements that are pretty cool, but aren't as complex as spell casting.

Tome of battle's martial adepts, Tome of magic's binders, and magic of incarnum's classes are all pretty good. I think a warblade who takes binding feats would be SICK. Try one of those.

[Foreverknight]

1. Is there any reason your party decided to kill you other than looking "sick". I mean, you are spending time there trying to have fun too... Sadly, cleric is DEFINITELY an awesome class, and with a little more in game experience, you would have realized short of the wizard, you would have pound for pound been one of the best in the group.
I know you can't always choose the game you are in, but it's a team game, and if the only teamwork in the game is to kill YOU, and you are a PC, that's not good.

2.
3.5 in my opinion does not do vanilla combat very well. It's basically *I full attack* with no variation in what you do. Feats attempt to mitigate it, but even real world martial arts simulate more diversity in combat attacks. However, it does have some really fun and flavorful supplements that are pretty cool, but aren't as complex as spell casting.

Tome of battle's martial adepts, Tome of magic's binders, and magic of incarnum's classes are all pretty good. I think a warblade who takes binding feats would be SICK. Try one of those.

I got cut by a blade with some sort of poison that I couldn't cure. That guy was killed and we could of went after his partner to get the cure but my team (except the rogue) was like kill him before he spreads it, DM told them it wasn't contagious and then the barbarian asked the rogue if we should kill him and she's like I'm not going to kill him. The barbarian took that as "I'm not going to but you can" which wasn't the case. Took them 5 hours tk kill me though. First time I used a class with magic so I most likely didn't have the best cleric build. Mine was a big ass tank with heals and buffs.

[Darrin]

Sounds like alot of books.

Savage Species for Anthropomorphic Snake/Whale.
Expanded Psionics Handbook for Hidden Talent (expansion).
Dragon #349 (not exactly a book) for City Brawler Barbarian.
Complete Champion for Spirit Bear Totem.
UA/SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm) for Whirling Frenzy, or Cityscape Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) for Ferocity.
Stormwrack for Leviathan Hunter.
Tome of Battle for Martial Study/Stance.
Complete Warrior for Reaping Mauler.
Oriental Adventures for Choke Hold.

Most melee-based characters have to kitbash and book-dive from a laundry list of obscure sources to stay relevant in a game where quadratic wizards start to pwn entire encounters at mid-to-high levels from just the spells in the PHB.

[Nifft]

I enjoy being in the fight as well as commanding the battlefield but knowing my team they would all just do their own thing and not listen to tactics.

Hmm. There are two ways to go:

1 - Bring your own team. Be a summoner and only use combat spells to avoid participating personally, because your turn will be spent mostly on tactical play using creatures that aren't you. At level 12 a Conjurer or Malconvoker will have access to Planar Binding, which means the ability to summon some very juicy Outsiders. Or you could do this as a Druid, hiding as a small bird while casting spells.

2 - Ignore team play. Be a powerful melee dude all by yourself. Jump around the battlefield and do your own thing. This seems like a perfect fit for a Warblade or Crusader.

[AnimeTheCat]

Hmm. There are two ways to go:

1 - Bring your own team. Be a summoner and only use combat spells to avoid participating personally, because your turn will be spent mostly on tactical play using creatures that aren't you. At level 12 a Conjurer or Malconvoker will have access to Planar Binding, which means the ability to summon some very juicy Outsiders. Or you could do this as a Druid, hiding as a small bird while casting spells.

2 - Ignore team play. Be a powerful melee dude all by yourself. Jump around the battlefield and do your own thing. This seems like a perfect fit for a Warblade or Crusader.

Or give them buffs whether they want them or not. Play a half elf marshal that buffs diplomacy to kingdom come and bring on your buffs and allies. Pairs well with Leadership.

[Foreverknight]

Hmm. There are two ways to go:

1 - Bring your own team. Be a summoner and only use combat spells to avoid participating personally, because your turn will be spent mostly on tactical play using creatures that aren't you. At level 12 a Conjurer or Malconvoker will have access to Planar Binding, which means the ability to summon some very juicy Outsiders. Or you could do this as a Druid, hiding as a small bird while casting spells.

2 - Ignore team play. Be a powerful melee dude all by yourself. Jump around the battlefield and do your own thing. This seems like a perfect fit for a Warblade or Crusader.

I'd rather play with the least amount of magic as I can.

[AnimeTheCat]

I'd rather play with the least amount of magic as I can.

I would say something lime a Marshal with maybe some rogue or feat rogue would fit pretty well. You can be a front liner, but your value is in your skill as a diplomat and face, as well as your ability to buff the party and enhance their abilities.

[Falontani]

Bard with Dragonfire inspiration, snowflake wardance and a small weapon. Perhaps dwk. Spells would be self healing, teleportation, buffs, and dispel magic. Make it so that if he really wanted he can make the whole party be awesome, or he can solo the barbarian and look hilarious doing it.

I've also heard it be considered balanced for a bard to drop spellcasting for maneuvers like those of the crusader

[Foreverknight]

Bard with Dragonfire inspiration, snowflake wardance and a small weapon. Perhaps dwk. Spells would be self healing, teleportation, buffs, and dispel magic. Make it so that if he really wanted he can make the whole party be awesome, or he can solo the barbarian and look hilarious doing it.

I've also heard it be considered balanced for a bard to drop spellcasting for maneuvers like those of the crusader

What would go into the build for a lvl 12?