IFCC's uses for V

[D.One]

I was just thinking... what other uses can the IFCC have for V's soul for a limited time period, besides simply "preventing V from acting"?

They said V's body is of the table, could they control V's soul, and force him to, for example, be spliced to another person acting on their behalf?

[Otomodachi]

Hmmm, by the IFCC's own words they can't do anything with V's BODY but... yeah, you're probably right, that they could splice V onto a living being if they wanted to. Presumably V'd have the same type of chance of escaping the splice as the three souls V originally had spliced to THEM, but with a lower chance success due to being lower level/having a low will save.

[The MunchKING]

Splices are a once-in-a-century (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html) power.

SO EXTEREMLY unlikely it will ever show up again.

[hroþila]

Splices are a once-in-a-century (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html) power.

SO EXTEREMLY unlikely it will ever show up again.
They said it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity in the entire multiverse... for V. But they were referring to a triple soul splice, not necessarily to a single soul one. It was a sales pitch, it was full of technical truths and carefully laid traps. The thing is not so vanishingly uncommon that Redcloak didn't know about it.

[D.One]

They said it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity in the entire multiverse... for V. But they were referring to a triple soul splice, not necessarily to a single soul one. It was a sales pitch, it was full of technical truths and carefully laid traps. The thing is not so vanishingly uncommon that Redcloak didn't know about it.

Both Redcloak and Xykon knew about it, and Xykon even bothered to remember it, so it's not that uncommon. V's deal (being grafted to three soul splices of some of the most powerfull evil arcane casters ever) was a "one in a century" deal, but the proccess itself seem to be reasonably common these days (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0646.html).

[Synesthesy]

Both Redcloak and Xykon knew about it, and Xykon even bothered to remember it

Can you please give me a link? I remember clearly Redcloak knowing what a soul splice was, and Xykon understanding it while fighting, but I don't understand when he "bothered to remember it"...


However, I really expect Soul Splice to return in the end of the comic. If IFCC will ever directly fight the Order, and this can happen in the last book, they may use that tecnique again. A good chance for V to show us hir development as a person and a wizard.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Can you please give me a link? I remember clearly Redcloak knowing what a soul splice was, and Xykon understanding it while fighting, but I don't understand when he "bothered to remember it"...

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html

RC only had to mention soul splices for Xykon to know what that meant. RC didn't need to explain them to him - Xykon remembered on his own.

GW

[The MunchKING]

They said it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity in the entire multiverse... for V. But they were referring to a triple soul splice, not necessarily to a single soul one. It was a sales pitch, it was full of technical truths and carefully laid traps. The thing is not so vanishingly uncommon that Redcloak didn't know about it.

I assumed it meant the Dark lower-downs could give THEM the power to do that once in a century. So the IFCC won't be doing any more for another century, but in theory another fiend could. Which is why I called it extremely unlikely, as it would mean new dudes would have to show up to join the IFCC just for the purpose of messing with V a bit more.

Or I could just be wrong in my interpretation of the "don't bother looking it up, it's a special once a century deal" line. They are crafty those lower-downs.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Or I could just be wrong in my interpretation of the "don't bother looking it up, it's a special once a century deal" line. They are crafty those lower-downs.

It looks to me like a reference/parody of the usual "once in a lifetime opportunity" scam.

http://mydotcomreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/The-Niche-Marketing-Kit-2018.jpg

GW

[D.One]

Can you please give me a link? I remember clearly Redcloak knowing what a soul splice was, and Xykon understanding it while fighting, but I don't understand when he "bothered to remember it"...


However, I really expect Soul Splice to return in the end of the comic. If IFCC will ever directly fight the Order, and this can happen in the last book, they may use that tecnique again. A good chance for V to show us hir development as a person and a wizard.

Panel 14 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html), RC says to Xykon only "Xykon, the elf is using two soul splices.", and he recognizes what that means. Seems to me he knows the effect, and bothered to remember it, and we know he's smart, but usually don't bother to remember information much more basic than that (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0459.html).

[b_jonas]

While it won't figure into the rest of the comic, I actually find "once-a-century deal" a bit underwhelming marketing when it's presented to an elf who's likely to live for several centuries.

[Fyraltari]

Hmmm, by the IFCC's own words they can't do anything with V's BODY but... yeah, you're probably right, that they could splice V onto a living being if they wanted to. Presumably V'd have the same type of chance of escaping the splice as the three souls V originally had spliced to THEM, but with a lower chance success due to being lower level/having a low will save.

What would be the point when they already have three much more powerful and much more willing to indulge in mayhem than V?

[ReleaseTheBees]

No idea. But I do feel they’re about to use their 3 Minutes claim to protect V’s body from the vampires while she’s out cold and defenceless.

[Rrmcklin]

I doubt the IFCC are going to do anything in this situation. They clearly already have fairly specific circumstances they want to use their time, and we have no reason to think they'd know about this.

And you can't expect them to pull V away anytime they're in danger of dying; the very nature of the quest that V is on and that they find useful, necessitates that she be in life-threatening danger fairly often.

[Jannoire]

Though it would fit the story... They got three windows to pool V out. One got used during the last book. It would be appropriate for one to happen in this book and the last in the last book...

[SlashDash]

Though it would fit the story... They got three windows to pool V out. One got used during the last book. It would be appropriate for one to happen in this book and the last in the last book...
I agree with this.

I also have the following hunch :
In the next book, they will call upon V for something that V (even possibly Roy) already plan for and will turn things on them somehow. Like possibly distracting or confusing them or maybe getting something out of them.

The point is, by that point, they will expect it.



I would also wager that another use the IFCC are likely to have with V is simple information. By that I mean that there could be a point where they will drag V to their place only this time, instead of silencing him, they will give them the information they need to overcome some difficulty. Maybe a history of the dwarves? Hel? The gates? The Snarl?

No idea what, but they will call upon them for something that's actual helpful to the party.


Although they could just send Sabine or the imp for that, maybe there won't be enough time.

[Goblin_Priest]

I suppose it's quite possible that all archfiends get a "Soul Splice - 1/century" ability. Fiends do have a bunch of abilities set on a timer.

Alternatively, it could be that a specific soul cannot be spliced more than once per century. Isn't there something like that about killing fiends, that they cannot return for another century? Thus, the ability to get these specific souls would be limited.

Could just be a sales pitch.

Could be that it took them 100 years to prepare this plot.

Could be that they don't foresee doing it again for a while, even if they could.

All that said, I'm kinda amazed V had no idea about it, but Xykon seemed to understand it pretty well. He never seemed like the kind of guy to dump a lot of skill points in any knowledge skill.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

All that said, I'm kinda amazed V had no idea about it, but Xykon seemed to understand it pretty well. He never seemed like the kind of guy to dump a lot of skill points in any knowledge skill.

He might have had prior experience with the technique, just like he might never have read a single book on druidic practices, but he is acquainted with them since four of them attacked them by popping out of a houseplant in one of their dungeons. Not everything you know about needs to be obtained by investing skill points, some knowledge is based on actually having encountered the thing in question.

GW

[KorvinStarmast]

All that said, I'm kinda amazed V had no idea about it, but Xykon seemed to understand it pretty well. He never seemed like the kind of guy to dump a lot of skill points in any knowledge skill. V, despite all of the rhetoric about making the laws of physics sit in the corner and weep, was a light weight mid level wizard. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0657.html) Until one grows into the level of that kind of power, one isn't ready for it. (Sorta like a lot of folks who win the lottery but had never handled a lot of money ... don't know how to handle it).

[Delta]

All that said, I'm kinda amazed V had no idea about it, but Xykon seemed to understand it pretty well. He never seemed like the kind of guy to dump a lot of skill points in any knowledge skill.

I feel like it's implied the reason Redcloak and X know about it because they're high-level spellcasters on Team Evil, so knowing what might happen to the souls of evil spellcasters after their death is kind of job relevant to them. And most likely Xykon simply spent quite a lot of life looking at options on how to increase his power, so Splices may well have come up. Since it's in inherently evil way to go about it, something like that most likely never had been part of the curriculum where V was trained.

[SlashDash]

Also let's not forget that the splicing is done via contacting a powerful evil being -

V has Conjuration barred. They can't summon anything anyway.
They needed the imp to summon the IFCC originally.


So it's likely that V would never research this field as they can't access it anyway.

[Fyraltari]

I feel like it's implied the reason Redcloak and X know about it because they're high-level spellcasters on Team Evil, so knowing what might happen to the souls of evil spellcasters after their death is kind of job relevant to them. And most likely Xykon simply spent quite a lot of life looking at options on how to increase his power, so Splices may well have come up. Since it's in inherently evil way to go about it, something like that most likely never had been part of the curriculum where V was trained.

I'm not sure if it is inherently evil. Is there any reason a Deva couldn't splice a good-aligned spellcaster to a mortal to help them defeat a monster?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I'm not sure if it is inherently evil. Is there any reason a Deva couldn't splice a good-aligned spellcaster to a mortal to help them defeat a monster?

This being D&D, if this was a thing that actually existed, I'm sure it would be Evil, and the Devas would have a suspiciously similar but differently named "Good" version of it (like ghosts and whatever the paladins in the throne room were).

GW

[Fyraltari]

This being D&D, if this was a thing that actually existed, I'm sure it would be Evil, and the Devas would have a suspiciously similar but differently named "Good" version of it (like ghosts and whatever the paladins in the throne room were).

GW
Wait it is not a D&D thing? How disappointing.

[hamishspence]

This being D&D, if this was a thing that actually existed, I'm sure it would be Evil, and the Devas would have a suspiciously similar but differently named "Good" version of it (like ghosts and whatever the paladins in the throne room were).

GW

The BoED version of BoVD's Possession is Channelling - the difference being that the Celestial does not control the caster the way a possessing Fiend does.

But soul splices already have the "not in control of the caster" thing.

[RatElemental]

This being D&D, if this was a thing that actually existed, I'm sure it would be Evil, and the Devas would have a suspiciously similar but differently named "Good" version of it (like ghosts and whatever the paladins in the throne room were).

GW

Ghosts already are the only undead that aren't inherently evil, I think. That said, positive energy spirits are awesome and I fully endorse their existence.

[wumpus]

Wait it is not a D&D thing? How disappointing.

While soul splices make a pretty cool D&D thing (I'm shocked I couldn't quickly google a soul splice homebrew. Presumably the only roll you need is the odds that any one soul can break free), a PC's ability to sell/lease a soul depends entirely on what a DM outer plane entity is willing to pay.

I've heard that a "demonology" splatbook had some nifty ideas that could cost a player their soul (not to mention greatly increasing party ire).

This type of thing should work better for a "known antagonist", presumably beat badly and low on power/friends. They then risk their soul to leapfrog the PCs in power, then for one final challenge...

What am I saying? NOBODY is as foolish or power crazy than PCs in an RPG. NOBODY.

[Mandor]

I don't think the IFCC will spend one for V here. One one hand, spend the short one to preserve the other one, sure, sounds like a no-brainer.

But they didn't act to save him from Xykon when Xykon was about to snuff them both V and O'Chul with Meteor Swarms to the FACE. Which would have been certain death. They had only moments to act and no way to know the MITD would "Escape" them away. They even seemed to WANT either V to win or Xykon to lose ... after it's over, one of the Directors says "he couldn't believe he was actually cheering for a paladin for a moment there.... I feel dirty".

Still they did nothing.

I would say likely not because they stood nothing to gain from it. V was spent, could no longer influence the battle in any way.
And that's exactly true now. He's down for the count, he has used up a good number of spell slots. And really, what would the IFCC gain by lifting a finger?
By helping him survive death in any way, they also risk losing his soul ... V has expressed regret and remorse, but has he atoned enough not to have his case "kicked over to the Neutral Evil bin"? Arguable.

They acted in Girard's dungeon becuase they had an immediately benefit. For whatever reason, they WANTED that gate destroyed, Roy was about to destroy it, and V was trying to stop Roy. They spent a use there for a specific achieveable goal.
I don't think they will act for anything less now.

[Jannoire]

Pulling V out against Xykon would've achieved exactly nothing. The body would still be there. Xykon waits for the duration and then snuffs V.
In this fight, Roy can still manage to tip the scales before V is in danger again

Edit: Especially since everybody except Roy would freak out about it...

[D.One]

They acted in Girard's dungeon becuase they had an immediately benefit. For whatever reason, they WANTED that gate destroyed, Roy was about to destroy it, and V was trying to stop Roy. They spent a use there for a specific achieveable goal.
I don't think they will act for anything less now.

That's precisely my point, as I've said in other threads.

There seems to be no benefit for the IFCC in saving V here. They aren't doing things to protect or help V. The only time they pulled V was to prevent him from acting. The whole protection thing was a whole colateral.

The reason "we are protecting our investment" is mostly moot, because if V dies, they won't loose the right to claim her soul for some time. They can always use it after death. And if V dies without enough atonement, they may get the soul full time, as they said already. IF they could somehow control V's actions, it might make sense to protect him, in order to have this "sleeper agent", but as it's been presented to us till now, they can only prevent V from acting. Know what else prevents someone from acting? Death.

My point, however, is: there seems to be no gain for the IFCC in helping V.

[Jannoire]

Without V Roy would try to get a replacement, over which the ifcc has no control.
By protecting Vaarsuvius they retain some partial control over the order.

[ReleaseTheBees]

No idea. What I do know is they are about to use their three minute window to protect V’s body from the vampires.

Assuming their plan involves destroying all five gates, being able to take the Order’s top damage dealer out of the action for 20 minutes will be pretty useful, just like with Girards Gate.

Their plan though... depends how much they know about the Rifts. If they know about the Planet (which I would guess is Creation’s First Planet and is in fact not destroyed but now trapped inside the Snarl’s “belly”) I expect they plan to damn all the souls trapped there and use the resources to storm the gates of the good afterlife.

Pure speculation. Check my reasoning?

[hroþila]

But they didn't act to save him from Xykon when Xykon was about to snuff them both V and O'Chul with Meteor Swarms to the FACE. Which would have been certain death. They had only moments to act and no way to know the MITD would "Escape" them away. They even seemed to WANT either V to win or Xykon to lose ... after it's over, one of the Directors says "he couldn't believe he was actually cheering for a paladin for a moment there.... I feel dirty".

Still they did nothing.
This is a very good point. I think they might still end up helping the Order somehow next time they pull V down, but they won't ever do it merely to save V/protect their investment.

[Fyraltari]

No idea. What I do know is they are about to use their three minute window to protect V’s body from the vampires.
Unless you have access to The Giant's plans for the story, you only suspect.


Assuming their plan involves destroying all five gates, being able to take the Order’s top damage dealer out of the action for 20 minutes will be pretty useful, just like with Girards Gate.
That has nothing to do with V's damage input, that had everything to do with information only V (and Blackwing) was privy to, information that has now been shared to avoid that kind of things again.
If their plan is to weaken the Order, letting V die here would be more useful than (potentially) saving his skin.


Their plan though... depends how much they know about the Rifts. If they know about the Planet (which I would guess is Creation’s First Planet and is in fact not destroyed but now trapped inside the Snarl’s “belly”) I expect they plan to damn all the souls trapped there and use the resources to storm the gates of the good afterlife.
The storming of the good afterlives is notdue to happen for some millenia, that is their long-term goal, not short-to middle term.

We have no indication that there is anyone one the planet (but none conclusive in the other direction either) and I don't see how destroying the gates would help them damn anyone, besides what would they be able to do that their counterparts wouldn't?

[The MunchKING]

No idea. What I do know is they are about to use their three minute window to protect V’s body from the vampires.

I'll bet money that not only don't you know that, you will be wrong about it.

[Rrmcklin]

The IFCC have never acted to protect V, and they certainly aren't going to use some of the hard earned time for their master plans to do so.

People are confusing V's body being protected as a consequence of their deal (so they can keep making usage of it) with them actively intervening in something else that has nothing to do with it.

Unless they can split the time and don't have to use it all in one go (which has not been implied) they aren't going to waste a turn here, when we know they have something else they want to use it for.

[Delta]

I'm not sure if it is inherently evil. Is there any reason a Deva couldn't splice a good-aligned spellcaster to a mortal to help them defeat a monster?

The problem with that is that in OotS, we see that the souls of the regularly deceased end up in their alignment-appropriate paradise. Taking a soul out of that paradise again (other than for a Resurrection, obviously) seems to something I can't imagine the forces of Good to look kindly upon.

[Anymage]

The problem with that is that in OotS, we see that the souls of the regularly deceased end up in their alignment-appropriate paradise. Taking a soul out of that paradise again (other than for a Resurrection, obviously) seems to something I can't imagine the forces of Good to look kindly upon.

A willing soul, working to empower a champion to greater good ends, shouldn't be a problem. Good doesn't force, but it has no problem allowing or even encouraging heroics.

And I really don't see the IFCC pulling V's bacon out of the fire just to preserve their last call. If nothing else, the party already has a high level cleric on hand, and I'm sure that dwarves with their proclivity to mining can scrounge up some diamonds. A dead wizard can be remedied while depleting the party's resources. On top of that, the threat of having V pulled out in a clutch situation forces the party to invest extra cautiously. Spending a time out burns off some of that threat. There's nothing that the IFCC stands to gain by acting here.

[D.One]

A willing soul, working to empower a champion to greater good ends, shouldn't be a problem. Good doesn't force, but it has no problem allowing or even encouraging heroics.

Yeah, I also don't see anything inherently evil in the "soul splice" thing, since the splices don't even have the power to control the character's actions. Unless the procedure damages the soul or anything like that, I don't really see a reason for Good to employ it with souls that were volunteers.


And I really don't see the IFCC pulling V's bacon out of the fire just to preserve their last call. If nothing else, the party already has a high level cleric on hand, and I'm sure that dwarves with their proclivity to mining can scrounge up some diamonds. A dead wizard can be remedied while depleting the party's resources. On top of that, the threat of having V pulled out in a clutch situation forces the party to invest extra cautiously. Spending a time out burns off some of that threat. There's nothing that the IFCC stands to gain by acting here.

Agreed. I believe there's a lot of people saying "I'm sure V will be saved here by IFCC" because:

1) People like the character and are trying to think of ways for V to be saved.

2) Since the possibility of the soul snatching by IFCC appeared, everybody is trying to guess when will it happen again. If one guesses times enough, one will end up guessing right some time.

[SlashDash]

Agreed. I believe there's a lot of people saying "I'm sure V will be saved here by IFCC" because:

1) People like the character and are trying to think of ways for V to be saved.

2) Since the possibility of the soul snatching by IFCC appeared, everybody is trying to guess when will it happen again. If one guesses times enough, one will end up guessing right some time.

And 3 - Since this is the Sixth book out of Seven, it's assumed that they will use it once in this book and the last in the other.

So the window of opportunity to use it in this book is getting smaller and smaller.

[RatElemental]

And 3 - Since this is the Sixth book out of Seven, it's assumed that they will use it once in this book and the last in the other.

So the window of opportunity to use it in this book is getting smaller and smaller.

Well, given how short one of the two uses is, I could see both being used in a longrunning book, if this one turns out to be shorter than blood runs in the family.

[Otomodachi]

Well, given how short one of the two uses is, I could see both being used in a longrunning book, if this one turns out to be shorter than blood runs in the family.

It's based on the length of time each individual splice was attached, so one is pretty significantly shorter than the other two (which are pretty close to the same length, themselves).

[RatElemental]

It's based on the length of time each individual splice was attached, so one is pretty significantly shorter than the other two (which are pretty close to the same length, themselves).

I know this. The two left are the 4 minute one from Haerta and one of the two twenty minute ones IIRC. I could easily see both being in the same book.

[Otomodachi]

I know this. The two left are the 4 minute one from Haerta and one of the two twenty minute ones IIRC. I could easily see both being in the same book.

OH! You meant "this one" as in the length of the BOOK, my bad.