Quick Help with a Sheperd Druid with WOW Pandaren class

[Alek]

Hi guys tomorrow I'll start a new small group of one-shots from LVL2 to LVL8 top.

We're using WOW races and world.

I want to do a Sheperd Druid to try the summoner features.
My race is: Pandaren (+2 wis / +1 con)
This is my roll: 16/15/15/12/11/10
I think I'll go: STR10 / DEX 15 / CON 15+1=16 / INT12 / WIS 16+2=18 / CHA11

Some questions:

how do I attack? spells? cantrip? weapon?
If I'm correct I can't summon a creature till I get to my 3lvl spells (Conjure Animals). Is that correct?
Wild shaping is pure role-play at this level I guess?
Our party is almost all full melee except a Bard how can I help them out with CC?
Someone can give me a rough examples of level progression especially which spells to choose? (I played a lot the tempest cleric so I kinda know some of those spells)



I hope someone replies before tomorrow

thanks

[hymer]

I think I'll go: STR10 / DEX 15 / CON 15+1=16 / INT12 / WIS 16+2=18 / CHA11
Seems eminently reasonable, except perhaps that Pandaren are rather pudgy for dex 15? :smallwink:


how do I attack? spells? cantrip? weapon?
It depends on your level, and a few other things. Do pandas get any extra weapon proficiencies?
With dex 15, you'll generally do better with scimitar and sling than with your attack cantrips. The obvious exception to that would be Shillelagh, which can take you from 1-4 for at-will melee damage, should you spend a cantrip slot on it. But it sounds like you should leave the meleeing to others, so compare your best ranged weapon (sling if you have no other weapon proficiencies) with your best ranged cantrip (Magic Stone most likely at levels 1-4; goes well with the sling anyway), and see which does better.


If I'm correct I can't summon a creature till I get to my 3lvl spells (Conjure Animals). Is that correct?
Pretty much. Your DM may allow you to use Speak with Animals and Animal Friendship to get an early animal companion, though.


Wild shaping is pure role-play at this level I guess?
By no means! Wild shape is excellent for scouting/spying; for getting movement modes like Climb, Burrow, Swim, and Fly (though they're not all available from level 2); for carrying or dragging heavy loads (draft horse); for running really fast (riding horse - you can even bring a slow ally along); And at second level, shapes like a wolf or giant badger are useful for fighting, giving you a stack of extra hit points and some offensive options you may not be able to better at that level.


Our party is almost all full melee except a Bard how can I help them out with CC?
The Entangle spell leaps to mind.

[QUOTE]Someone can give me a rough examples of level progression especially which spells to choose? (I played a lot the tempest cleric so I kinda know some of those spells)[QUOTE]
I can offer you some advice to help you think about these and many other questions: Look up my druid guide here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?545558-5e-Druid-Handbook-Dreams-Land-Moon-and-Shepherd).

[Corpsecandle717]

Hymer's got it mostly covered.

My only counters are be careful with Magic Stone and Shillelagh. They're great in early levels, but the do not scale well for straight class druids. If you manage to get multiple attacks from some other source they can be fine, but if not they just become dead weight (unless your dm lets you swap out cantrips). Also produce flame is pretty okay.

Also Hymer mentioned entangle, but a couple other spells that are worth it to keep on your list: Faire Fire and Healing Word. Faire Fire grants advantage on attacks against affected foes and is great for high strength mobs that can break entangle. If you've played a cleric I'm sure you know the value of healing word.

[Alek]

Seems eminently reasonable, except perhaps that Pandaren are rather pudgy for dex 15? :smallwink:


It depends on your level, and a few other things. Do pandas get any extra weapon proficiencies?
With dex 15, you'll generally do better with scimitar and sling than with your attack cantrips. The obvious exception to that would be Shillelagh, which can take you from 1-4 for at-will melee damage, should you spend a cantrip slot on it. But it sounds like you should leave the meleeing to others, so compare your best ranged weapon (sling if you have no other weapon proficiencies) with your best ranged cantrip (Magic Stone most likely at levels 1-4; goes well with the sling anyway), and see which does better.


Pretty much. Your DM may allow you to use Speak with Animals and Animal Friendship to get an early animal companion, though.


By no means! Wild shape is excellent for scouting/spying; for getting movement modes like Climb, Burrow, Swim, and Fly (though they're not all available from level 2); for carrying or dragging heavy loads (draft horse); for running really fast (riding horse - you can even bring a slow ally along); And at second level, shapes like a wolf or giant badger are useful for fighting, giving you a stack of extra hit points and some offensive options you may not be able to better at that level.


The Entangle spell leaps to mind.



Hi Hymer yes I spent all this morning reading your guide tnx

No extra proficiency for Pandaren same weapons as normal druids.
But I have this:
Bouncy.You have resistance to damage caused by falling great distances. :)

Yes I thought about taking Magic Stone to use it with sling.

So wolfs and giant badgers can be good in battle? I have to check their stats

Well yes I was following your guide so I chose this spells: Entangle, Faerie Fire, Goodberry, Healing Word (but I still need to choose 2 more).
By the way I don't think I understand the true power of Goodberry

thanks

[Alek]

Hymer's got it mostly covered.

My only counters are be careful with Magic Stone and Shillelagh. They're great in early levels, but the do not scale well for straight class druids. If you manage to get multiple attacks from some other source they can be fine, but if not they just become dead weight (unless your dm lets you swap out cantrips). Also produce flame is pretty okay.

Also Hymer mentioned entangle, but a couple other spells that are worth it to keep on your list: Faire Fire and Healing Word. Faire Fire grants advantage on attacks against affected foes and is great for high strength mobs that can break entangle. If you've played a cleric I'm sure you know the value of healing word.
Thanks, we're not multiclassing at least from the start we like to leave that "decision" to the story.
So it seems that I'll be better using the Sheperd bonus action and maybe some concentration spell, wild shape into something and attack?

I'll look better at those creatures stats

[Corpsecandle717]

I don't think you're going to be using wild shape much at your current level for combat. It might be nice for the HP buffer, but I don't think you're going to be terribly effective ending a fight with the forms currently available to you. Instead resort to spells and cantrips for damage.

Goodberry is awesome because it's 10 guaranteed points of healing. This is great outside of combat (because it's an action to eat and gain the benefits of one berry). They can be spread out among the party to administer, so when an ally gets knocked down, it doesn't have to be you or the bard that brings them back up, allowing you more flexibility with your resources.

[Alek]

I don't think you're going to be using wild shape much at your current level for combat. It might be nice for the HP buffer, but I don't think you're going to be terribly effective ending a fight with the forms currently available to you. Instead resort to spells and cantrips for damage.

Goodberry is awesome because it's 10 guaranteed points of healing. This is great outside of combat (because it's an action to eat and gain the benefits of one berry). They can be spread out among the party to administer, so when an ally gets knocked down, it doesn't have to be you or the bard that brings them back up, allowing you more flexibility with your resources.

well if I have to rely spells for attack/dmg I need to take a better look at them.
At the moment I chose this 5: Entangle, Faerie Fire, Goodberry, Healing Word, Fog Cloud
And if I'm ranged Thunderwave is not a good choice I guess

But don't get me wrong I don't want to deal dmg at all costs, my question was more how and if a Druid attacks but usually I would love to do some serious CC from range.

Wolf seems quite good in battle with pact tactics tough.
Or at least better than a sling with Magic Stone?

I guess shield and medium armor is the way to go for AC

[hymer]

I don't think you're going to be using wild shape much at your current level for combat.
Maybe I've got it wrong, but it seems they're starting at level 2. That's pretty much the best place for fighting in wild shapes. :smallsmile:


Wolf seems quite good in battle with pact tactics tough.
Or at least better than a sling with Magic Stone?

You can do the math without much trouble. With a sling you get +4 to hit (+2 dex, +2 proficiency bonus) and deal 1d4+2 damage. The wolf has the same to hit, and deals 2d4+2 damage. And with pack tactics and knocking people down for your friends to get advantage in melee, well they are clearly better offensively than the average sling. But the wolf has to get into melee to do this, and it has an AC of 13. While using a sling, you should have an AC of at least 16 (shield, dex, and hide or studded leather armour). So if you are concentrating on a spell, staying in the back is safer, and you won't have to spend an action switching to the wolf form either.
If you have Magic Stone, you'll hit a little better for slightly less damage than a wolf's bite, but it shouldn't make a big difference in the calculations. You still don't get pack tactics or give you allies advantage.

You can, of course, do either, as circumstances dictate. Which is an important part of playing a druid: Very high versatility, if you can master all your options.

[Alek]

Maybe I've got it wrong, but it seems they're starting at level 2. That's pretty much the best place for battle wild shapes. :smallsmile:



You can do the math without much trouble. With a sling you get +4 to hit (+2 dex, +2 proficiency bonus) and deal 1d4+2 damage. The wolf has the same to hit, and deals 2d4+2 damage. And with pack tactics and knocking people down for your friends to get advantage in melee, well they are clearly better offensively than the average sling. But the wolf has to get into melee to do this, and it has an AC of 13. While using a sling, you should have an AC of at least 16 (shield, dex, and hide or studded leather armour). So if you are concentrating on a spell, staying in the back is safer, and you won't have to spend an action switching to the wolf form either.
If you have Magic Stone, you'll hit slightly better for slightly more damage, but it shouldn't make a big difference in the calculations.

You can, of course, do either, as circumstances dictate.

reading more even the Velociraptor seems good.
I can buff myself while in wild shape with my Bear Spirit?
And I can keep concentration?

[hymer]

I can buff myself while in wild shape with my Bear Spirit?
You should be able to activate your spirits in wild shape, but in the end that's up to the DM. But you can activate it the same round you shift shape even if it is disallowed.


And I can keep concentration?
You can try! :smallwink:
Animals have poor AC in general, and nearly all of them fight in melee, so you're likely to take more hits like that, each of which takes a concentration saving throw (using the animal's con score). Other than that, you're fine concentrating in wild shape.


reading more even the Velociraptor seems good.
Remember you must have seen an animal to wild shape to it. There's no guarantee there are raptors in Pandaria, or the Lone Isle, or wherever you're playing.

[Alek]

Remember you must have seen an animal to wild shape to it. There's no guarantee there are raptors in Pandaria, or the Lone Isle, or wherever you're playing.
I still need to check with the DM but I think that Isle of Giants in WOW has Dinosaurs and is part of Pandaria so maybe I have a chance.

Thanks for all the help guys.

I still need to understand the normal combat mechanics.
Ex.: Paladin, Barbarian, and maybe Bard go in melee, I use the Spirit Totem on them and maybe cast a CC spell like Entangled or Faerie Fire?

[hymer]

Ex.: Paladin, Barbarian, and maybe Bard go in melee, I use the Spirit Totem on them and maybe cast a CC spell like Entangled or Faerie Fire?
That's one way to go, but you may run out of spells and uses of spirit if you do that a lot. If it looks like an easy fight, or if the others are burning their resources, you may want to conserve your own a little, and rely on abilities you won't run out of (weapon attacks and cantrips).
It also depends on how many fights you can expect before you get your next rest. Your spirits and wild shapes recharge after a short rest, while your spells take a long rest, so you can spend those a little more freely - at least until you get enough spell slots.

[Corpsecandle717]

Maybe I've got it wrong, but it seems they're starting at level 2. That's pretty much the best place for fighting in wild shapes. :smallsmile:


Whoops! My bad, missed that detail.

[Alek]

thanks for all your help guys I'll start today

[sithlordnergal]

If you are looking for cr 1/4 beasts, few things are as squishy or deadly as a raptor. You'll have multiattack with pack tactics at the cost of only having 10 hp. Personally, I would go for a Wolf for your wild shape, or the Badge. They have more hp.

That said, once you reach level 5, raptors will be the big thing you want to summon with Conjure Animals. One raptor is easy to deal with, 8 raptos though? I have played a moon druid and summoned 8 velociraptors on a hyrdra before. The 8 raptors won because they were doing 16 attacks, all with advantage.

[Alek]

I had so much fun guys yesterday, Sheperd Druid is amazing.
As a Pandaren I thought it would be more appropriate to take the Primal Savagery cantrip.
I literally wrecked the big boss wilde shaping into a Gian Poisonous Snake LOL

I still have some doubt maybe you can help me with:


Spirit Totem Hawk: how does it really works? who has the advantage? me and my allies have to stay in or out of the aura?
Regarding all the Spirit Totems: The main feat works just when you cast it right? not when you later move it. So basically the Bear gives the temp hit points just once and then when you move it you just have the other effects?
While in wild shape: I can use the spirit totems or I have to first cast those? Can I cast spells? Can I keep concentration if I previously casted a concentration spell?


thanks

[Spore]

Seems eminently reasonable, except perhaps that Pandaren are rather pudgy for dex 15? :smallwink:

Not at all actually. The original 3.5 Warcraft supplement book had Pandaren as Dex +2, +1 HP/HD. But then again, it had a quadruped movement style, too. And it invented some exotic weapon proficiencies for the race. :)

[Alek]

Hymer I would like to thank you for your guide is a master piece!!!
I kept reading it and reading it :)

I hope you make one for the Warlock too soon

[sophontteks]

I had so much fun guys yesterday, Sheperd Druid is amazing.
As a Pandaren I thought it would be more appropriate to take the Primal Savagery cantrip.
I literally wrecked the big boss wilde shaping into a Gian Poisonous Snake LOL

I still have some doubt maybe you can help me with:


Spirit Totem Hawk: how does it really works? who has the advantage? me and my allies have to stay in or out of the aura?
Regarding all the Spirit Totems: The main feat works just when you cast it right? not when you later move it. So basically the Bear gives the temp hit points just once and then when you move it you just have the other effects?
While in wild shape: I can use the spirit totems or I have to first cast those? Can I cast spells? Can I keep concentration if I previously casted a concentration spell?


thanks
You have to use your reaction to give advantage in the aura and you only have 1 reaction per turn. So one characters attack only for the cost of your reaction.

Moving the totem doesn't end the effects or change their delivery. The bear totem specifically says "When it appears." For temp hp delivery. It doesn't give temp hp after.

You can't cast spells, you can concentrate, you can use totems.

[Alek]

You have to use your reaction to give advantage in the aura and you only have 1 reaction per turn. So one characters attack only for the cost of your reaction.


It says:"When a creature makes an attack roll against a target in the spirit’s aura, you can use your reaction to grant advantage to that attack roll."
I don't understand who has to be inside the aura if the enemy or us to be effective. Basically who is the "creature" and who is the "target".
Maybe I'm reading it wrong but it seems the target of our attacks has to be inside the aura?

[sophontteks]

It says:"When a creature makes an attack roll against a target in the spirit’s aura, you can use your reaction to grant advantage to that attack roll."
I don't understand who has to be inside the aura if the enemy or us to be effective. Basically who is the "creature" and who is the "target".
Maybe I'm reading it wrong but it seems the target of our attacks has to be inside the aura?
A creatute is anything living.
The target is whatever the above creature is attacking.
And yes it all has to be within the aura.

You are the one who chooses the creature that gets advantage and it costs you your reaction to do it. You only have one reaction per round.

This is probably the weakest of the three spirits. It has its uses, but the other two can effect multiple creatures per round without costing you your reaction.