Psionic Army Design?

[kalos72]

My group has designed a standing army of dwarven crusaders, elven rangers and human barbarian/ragers, supported by a group of Dragon shaman, Bard and led by a Marshall.

But since we are trying to increase the psionics in our region, I thought why not go a psionic army? Plus I recently saw the Tactician from Unleashed Psionics and was impressed.

Thoughts?


Shock troops, ranged, front line, support? Cavalry?

[kalos72]

Really? :(

[Uncle Pine]

Illithocytes from Dragon #337 would make for some really cool mounts if you can either patch their 20 ft. speed or don't care about it for any reason (i.e. you're infiltrating an underground complex or a fortress), specifically due to swarmfighting, lifesense and telepatic link alongside a natural Neutral alignment and animal-like intelligence. They come in bright pink.

[AnimeTheCat]

A cell of psions that craft astral constructs with some psychic warriors and soulknifes could be pretty good. Basically, the could be psionic special forces of a sort as opposed to a real component of the army, as a start.

If your army combats evil, you may be able to ally or even gain command of a Sibyllic Guardian. They're a pretty neat CR 10 psionic outsider that might be cool as a small unit commander or something.

Your party could come across a crypt of ancient Psions that, when disturbed, brings it's undead Spectral Savants to prevent their tomb from being raided. Before they attack they question the party to determine alignment and reason for trespassing. If the party is neutral or evil, the spectral savants will defend their crypt. If the party is good, the spectral savants will be diplomatic or defend only using powers. These spectral savants are the undead created by a cabal of Psions who swore to eternally protect this tomb, and the world, from an ancient evil. If your party's goal aligns with theirs, they join you. They are LG and will only use their undead abilities on the neutral or evil servants of evil, but favor diplomatic resolution.

[Elricaltovilla]

This becomes much more viable if you are running a Pathfinder game. Ultimate Psionics has classes like the Tactician (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/tactician/) and Vitalist (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/vitalist/) who have an ability called collective.

The collective ability allows your Tactician or Vitalist to share some powers across the collective regardless of range. But it also allows the collective to communicate telepathically with each other. And you can nest these collectives to cover your entire army.

Imagine your general as a high level Tactician, with all of his commanders in his collective. The commanders are lower level and have a collective comprised of the general and all their lieutenants. The lieutenants have collectives of their NCOs and specialists, while each NCO is a Vitalist or Tactician whose collective includes their squad and their lieutenant.

This army can spread buffs and information around instantaneously with near perfect accuracy. Sadist Vitalist can replenish the power points of their allies through the collective by forcing enemies into the collective and then killing them to transfer the gained PP to someone else.

You are looking at a monstrously efficient Psionic army with near perfect communication ability and teamwork. And the classes are full manifesters with decent power lists and solid combat chassis and abilities.

[Andor13]

In 3.5 Psionics don't bring all that much to the party, I think. PsiWarriors are good, but they rely on short term buffs which will not last out a field battle (of course, you already have Barbarians, so you may not be thinking of long engagements.)

If you have access to pathfinder psionics then things are different. The Pathfinder Soulknife leaves the 3.5 Soulknife weeping in the corner. The Aegis has amazing flexibility, durability, and utility. Marksmen are ok. The real gems would be the Vitalist/Tactician/Zealot because all three share a psionic collective class feature that offers unparalleled communications across the chaos of battle. Granted the range is limited to medium until very high levels, but a carefully chosen set of member in the various collectives, overlapping across the battlefield would grant communications that historical commanders could only dream of. (Of course, that only matters if your mass combat system is finicky enough to detail comms issues.)

[ExLibrisMortis]

Stick several Constructors (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625b) and a spell-to-power erudite in metaconcert.

Surround by telekinetic sphere and affinity field.

Use schism to funnel power points to the metaconcert entity using bestow power.

Use Burrowing Power to manifest astral construct through the sphere.

[kalos72]

I like...doesnt nullify psionic field make short work of an army like this though? It seems pretty overpowered when thinking of from this scenario.

[kalos72]

Stick several Constructors (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625b) and a spell-to-power erudite in metaconcert.

Surround by telekinetic sphere and affinity field.

Use schism to funnel power points to the metaconcert entity using bestow power.

Use Burrowing Power to manifest astral construct through the sphere.


Can you walk me through this please. I am not following. :(

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I like...doesnt nullify psionic field make short work of an army like this though? It seems pretty overpowered when thinking of from this scenario.A null psionics field is only a 10' radius. Just hit anyone using it with arrows or max-augmented crystal shards. Or just have your astral constructs take up appropriately sized polearms (possibly made via a Linked Power'd psionic minor creation) and whack 'em from a distance. Preferably from the air to neuter most attempts at retaliation.

[Elricaltovilla]

Anti-magic field and null psionics field are seriously bad at dealing with the things they're supposed to nullify. The small area and short range means that they affect almost no one, and they reduce the effectiveness of the person casting them (barring arcane archers) because they turn of the source's magic weapons and armor too. It's far too easy to get around them for them to be effective.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Can you walk me through this please. I am not following. :(
Metaconcert lets the erudite bypass the unique powers per day limitation. Because it's a spell-to-power erudite, that gives you a massive library of effects you can produce.

Telekinetic sphere lets the controller fly the entire group (slowly) and protects you from harm. It breaks line of effect to you, but Burrowing Power lets you bypass it with a DC 30 Psicraft check.

Constructors can summon multiple astral constructs with a single manifesting of astral construct.

Affinity field lets everyone in range share in the effects of 1st-3rd-level spells/powers cast on the manifester of the field. In this case, it's manifested by the erudite through metaconcert, so any time anyone uses bestow power to grant it an extra 6 pp (costs 9 pp), all manifesters within the field regain 6 pp.


If you assume a 17th-level erudite and 15th-level constructors (ML 14), using a torc of power preservation, the constructors spend 8 pp each round to replenish 6 pp to the entire group, and the erudite spends 11 pp each round to replenish 8 pp to the entire group. The constructors also spend 14 pp each round to manifest astral construct (plus some power link shards, if needed), creating four 5th-level constructs. That means you need at least three constructors to keep everyone's power reserve topped-up (replenishing 26 pp per round).

If you boost the ML of the constructors to 24 (for the purpose of astral construct only), they can manifest astral construct, maximally augmented, without power link shards. At that point, you need a minimum of four constructors to keep everyone at full power points.

Note that you can always choose to replenish even more power, by using your non-schism standard action or the metaconcert entity.

[kalos72]

So the Erudite drives the flying sphere and blasts, being fed more PP from the group. While the 4 constructors just keep spamming astral constructs and feeding the group PP? All while flying and being impervious to any damage.

Now to figure out maximizing the constructs...

[kalos72]

And burrowing power gets around the fact that the fields dont let anything in or out so the Erudite can still attack?

And your schism twin will be adding PP to the group with the primary attacks as normal...

[ExLibrisMortis]

So the Erudite drives the flying sphere and blasts, being fed more PP from the group. While the 4 constructors just keep spamming astral constructs and feeding the group PP? All while flying and being impervious to any damage.

Now to figure out maximizing the constructs...
The constructs are already as powerful as they get, basically, with a constructor @ ML 24. Constructor grants additional menu selections, so you end up with ACs that have five menu C selections (2 for AC 9, Boost Construct feat, and 2x Boost Construct class feature).

Also, the constructs last for 1 min/level (so 24, ideally), and they're Huge (with a fly speed), so you should be able to fill the sphere around you with constructs, out to the maximum range of 85' (use Enlarge Power to make that 170', maybe, though that requires Psicrystal Containment, or else a Dominant Ideal ardent constructor, which puts the minimum ECL at 19).

The affinity field should affect the astral constructs, too, so you can buff them (as long as the field extends beyond the sphere, which may require Widen Power) with up to 3rd-level effects, including touch spells/powers and even personal spells/powers, such as haste and wraithstrike. In fact, affinity field specifies "magical effects", so technically, (Su) abilities with a spell level count too (Supernatural Spell comes to mind).


If you want to get really crazy, you can do a Dual-Plane Summons constructor with Psiotheurgy, which lets you stack all those AC abilities on a summoned creature. It's hard to fit Constructor into that, though, as it's more an arcane build with a little psionics on the side. Outside the focus of this thread, too.

[kalos72]

So for the Constructs, its really all about those 3 menus? Thats it? No other ways to buff them or improve them?

CHEESE ALERT: What about using venomfire if you choice the poison option?

[kalos72]

Have to work out the details but...

Aegis as troops
Zealots as squad leaders
Vitalists as LT's - not sure I get the Sadist/Life leech benefits yet
Tacticians as Captains

Add in the AC Shock troops and their supporting groups:
1 STP Erudite - Why not straight psion here?
4 Constructors
1 Vitalist maybe?

[kalos72]

Is there a way to increase the size of your collective?

Otherwise they are super small, half your level or your key ability modifier so thats like 4 at max for an 18?

Unless I am reading this wrong, thats a ridiculously small group.

[Andor13]

Is there a way to increase the size of your collective?

Well, hopefully your officers will have a few levels, but yeah.

There is the Expanded Collective Feat (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/feats/expanded-collective-psionic/).
Remember that the guy creating the collective doesn't count (nor does his psicrystal, if any.)
And of course, stat boosting items will help. Oh, and there is at least one (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/equipment/psionic-items/universal-items/#TOC-Headband-of-the-Great-Village) item that helps, not sure if there are any more.

But consider how it works in practice. Even if your zealot squad leaders only have a 10 chr, they can still link to one person, and they only need to link to the Lt. So each Lt can command an unlimited number of squads, (or at least more than will fit in that 110' range.) Your Lts need to link up to the Captains, and so on.

As long as you build the collective networks from the bottom up, there really aren't any limits. You use excess members to connect sideways for network redundancy, and downwards to provide class feature benefits to your squads/subordinates.

[kalos72]

Thanks for those, the feat works but the headband only seems to give a telepathic link, not collective size increase I think. Custom item would work I am sure...

There is no limit to the amount of people overall as you pyramid them but the effects of each class, Tact/Vital/Zealot only affect their collective so placement needs to work.

A Vitalist above the Zealots, from an organizational perspective, works but then they cant heal that zealots troops only the zealot themselves right?

[Elricaltovilla]

Thanks for those, the feat works but the headband only seems to give a telepathic link, not collective size increase I think. Custom item would work I am sure...

There is no limit to the amount of people overall as you pyramid them but the effects of each class, Tact/Vital/Zealot only affect their collective so placement needs to work.

A Vitalist above the Zealots, from an organizational perspective, works but then they cant heal that zealots troops only the zealot themselves right?

Zealots will be able to effectively heal and protect their troops without relying too much on the collective if they have the right build.

Make sure to have Silver Crane and Radiant Dawn and you can heal pretty effectively even without too much reliance on the collective.

[Andor13]

Thanks for those, the feat works but the headband only seems to give a telepathic link, not collective size increase I think. Custom item would work I am sure...

There is no limit to the amount of people overall as you pyramid them but the effects of each class, Tact/Vital/Zealot only affect their collective so placement needs to work.

A Vitalist above the Zealots, from an organizational perspective, works but then they cant heal that zealots troops only the zealot themselves right?

Eh? It's in the last line of the item description: "If worn by a creature with the collective class feature, the wearer may also connect this same number of additional creatures in their collective, beyond their normal limit."

Mind you, it costs twice as much for one headband as for a wand of CLW, so it's not where I would spend my money, if I were supplying logistical support to that army. Well, not at the lower levels anyway, for commanders, sure.

Radiant dawn is a potent source of healing, and remember that the Aegii have access to it too, part of what makes the class so flexible and useful is that they actually have the most broad access to the Maneuver system. It falls off at higher level, especially as they are limited to the archetype progression chart, but at low levels the Aegis is very solid.

Honestly an army of Aegii would be terrifying, and the grittier your sim, the more terrifying they get.

They can march in Astral Skin mode, giving them twice the strategic speed of any other army, they can switch to half plate with 6 seconds notice, and who can afford to equip their line troopers with half-plate? Dark vision, water breathing, access to Maneuvers, and Akasha melds, and not only does their armour not need maintenance, but they all have free unlimited mending so their gear is always in top shape. If they have a spare Customization point the Aegis ranged attack is better than a revolver, and they can all have one.

[kalos72]

Zealots will be able to effectively heal and protect their troops without relying too much on the collective if they have the right build.

Make sure to have Silver Crane and Radiant Dawn and you can heal pretty effectively even without too much reliance on the collective.

I haven't found Radiant Dawn yet but Silver Crane is pretty good you are right. Where is Radiant Dawn from? Akasha melds? I haven't spent alot of time in the Pathfinder 3rd party stuff yet, just getting into it.

Sorry Andor, I read that to be you can mindlink above your collective limit. But if you can add+3 to your collective there, I am sure you can make more items.

[Elricaltovilla]

The pfsrd is woefully out of date when it comes to 3rd party materials. You can find Radiant Dawn here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?528186-Dreamscarred-Press-New-playtest-the-Rajah-an-akashic-initiator!).

[Andor13]

I haven't found Radiant Dawn yet but Silver Crane is pretty good you are right. Where is Radiant Dawn from? Akasha melds? I haven't spent alot of time in the Pathfinder 3rd party stuff yet, just getting into it.

Radiant Dawn is from the Rajah playtest as linked above by Elricaltovilla.

Akasha is the Pathfinder port of the 3.5 Incarnum system, also by Dreamscarred press. (Like Psionics and PoW.) Interestingly while the Psionics book was a pretty straight conversion and tuning (and expanded upon later) the Akasha rules keep the fundamental idea of the structure of the system, but pitched all three classes and most of the melds out the window and made their own. Which, as much as I loved Totemists, was not a terrible thing, because Incarnates were weird and Soulborn were just pitiful.

Oh! Hey, they finally put the Guru and the Daevic up on the SRD! For the longest time it was only the Vizier. Here they are. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/variant-magic-rules/akashic-magic/veilweaving-classes/) Aegii can spend some CP on the ability to shape and bind veils from the Daevic list, but honestly at the low levels I assume we're speculating about for a large army, you'll be better off using the Initiator options, or the Aegiis own abilities, except maybe for some specialized applications.

[kalos72]

I haven't really been well versed in the Martials, but I dont see Silver Crane or Radiant Dawn on the Zealot list...is there a feat or something I am missing?

I'll make a new thread about each class I think...

[ExLibrisMortis]

So for the Constructs, its really all about those 3 menus? Thats it? No other ways to buff them or improve them?

CHEESE ALERT: What about using venomfire if you choice the poison option?
Yes, the menus are everything. They are very powerful, though. You get stuff like Pounce, free-action force attacks, natural invisibility (can't be purged), Whirlwind Attack, tactical teleportation, and 43 base strength. Astral constructs are combat brutes, but they are good combat brutes.


Venomfire with two menu B options (pounce and venom), Imbued Summoning, and Dual-Plane Summons is very effective. You need a build along the lines of conjurer 3/ardent 1/cerebremancer 5/wyrm wizard 2/malconvoker 9, with Psiotheurgy for Conjuration and Practiced Manifester for ardent. Total CL for Conjuration spells should work out to 26. However, you'd only have about 40-50 pp at that point (and Wisdom dependency from ardent), which is quite draining @ 9 pp per casting of Dual-Plane summon monster IX. Powerful allies, though!

[Elricaltovilla]

I haven't really been well versed in the Martials, but I dont see Silver Crane or Radiant Dawn on the Zealot list...is there a feat or something I am missing?

I'll make a new thread about each class I think...

Every martial can use a trait to swap out one discipline, and use a Martial Tradition to swap out a second. The trait in question is called Unorthodox Method.

[Andor13]

Any initiating class can alter their discipline list in a few ways.

Archetypes frequently alter the lists, the templates do as well.

There is a trait to swap a discipline for another one.

There are Martial Traditions that will let anyone who joins swap for a specific discipline. (And as GM you could easily make your Psiarmy one such tradition. Although Sleeping Goddess is kind of the no brainer Psionic Tradition.)

Radiant Dawn specifically lets anyone swap a discipline for it, so that's a no effort fix.

Plus using the Advanced Study feat any initiator can dabble in a different discipline.

[kalos72]

Gotcha on the disciplines, thanks.

For the Constructors -
Feats:Spell Focus/Augment Summoning/Imbued Summoning/Dual Plane Summons
- Use Venomfire buff with Imbued on AC
- Get an extra improved AC with Dual Plane

[ExLibrisMortis]

Gotcha on the disciplines, thanks.

For the Constructors -
Feats:Spell Focus/Augment Summoning/Imbued Summoning/Dual Plane Summons
- Use Venomfire buff with Imbued on AC
- Get an extra improved AC with Dual Plane
No. Constructors build armies of astral constructs. Dual-Plane Summons experts can do the Imbued venomfire trick, but they don't build astral constructs. They summon creatures from the summon monster lists, with the AC abilities on top.

[kalos72]

http://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/feat/Dual-Plane_Summons

I was reading this as you summon one and get an AC to boot?

As for the other feats, I was assuming that they could apply to an AC as well as a summoned monster. You could just make PSI versions of each feat to match AC's.

[ExLibrisMortis]

http://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/feat/Dual-Plane_Summons

I was reading this as you summon one and get an AC to boot?

As for the other feats, I was assuming that they could apply to an AC as well as a summoned monster. You could just make PSI versions of each feat to match AC's.
Well, even if you get an AC and a summoned creature, the AC's abilities apply to the summoned monster instead of the AC. Still, I suppose you're right in that it does say you summon an AC, so... free sack of hit points with every summon!

Imbued Summoning only applies to the summoning subschool, but yeah, you can make a psionic version. Downside is you'd probably need to expend your focus to use it, which means you need Psicrystal Containment to use it alongside Burrowing Power, and/or you give up Enlarge Power for the extra range.

[kalos72]

So I am going to say:

Constructors -
Feats:Spell Focus/Augment Summoning/Imbued Summoning - Psionic versions
- Use Venomfire(psionic version) buff with Imbued on AC

[kalos72]

Could the metaconcert idea be used for a group of Aegis as well?

Stick several Constructors and a spell-to-power erudite in metaconcert.

Surround by telekinetic sphere and affinity field.

Use schism to funnel power points to the metaconcert entity using bestow power.

Use Burrowing Power to manifest astral construct through the sphere.

[kalos72]

Any Vitalist or Tactician experts out there have ideas on ways to use them in this scenario?

[kalos72]

Ok so, am I doing this right?

Aegis for front line melee
Zealots to lead squads of Aegii
Groups of Tacticians to lead the Zealots

Groups of one STP Erudite and 4-5 Constructors for AC Shock Troop Support

Aegis seems doable for ranged but are there better psionically speaking?

Where do Vitalists go in this?


I think I am getting overwhelmed here. Why does it seem like rangers and crusaders for front line troops and marshalls, DFI bards and dragon shaman support were stronger?

:(

[ExLibrisMortis]

I think I am getting overwhelmed here. Why does it seem like rangers and crusaders for front line troops and marshalls, DFI bards and dragon shaman support were stronger?
Because a lot of power is hidden in specific powers, instead of easily-accessible class abilities. The astral construct-spamming dreadnought could take on any number of that ranger/crusader/marshal/bard/dragon shaman army, unless the bards were throwing greater dispel magic and managed to overwhelm the five manifesters (of course, the erudite would maintain dispelling buffer, a psionic ring of enduring arcana, and possibly multiple telekinetic spheres).

[Andor13]

Ok so, am I doing this right?

Aegis for front line melee
Zealots to lead squads of Aegii
Groups of Tacticians to lead the Zealots

Groups of one STP Erudite and 4-5 Constructors for AC Shock Troop Support

Aegis seems doable for ranged but are there better psionically speaking?

Where do Vitalists go in this?

I think I am getting overwhelmed here. Why does it seem like rangers and crusaders for front line troops and marshalls, DFI bards and dragon shaman support were stronger?

:(

Well, again, it depends on your goals. The strength of an Aegis lies in the generally all day, always available nature of their powers. In that way they are similar to other martials, although with vastly superior options like flight, burrow, and fast healing built in. In any kind of large engagement that, similar to a real world battle, plays out over hours instead of rounds, they are really strong. If you want a large army, or the ability of troops to operate with little support, or even rest then you want Aegii. If you can provide unlimited budget magical items and support, then of course, anyone can do what they do.

If you are thinking more in terms of standard D&D combat where the ability to nova is more important, then they are probably inferior to proper manifesting classes like Psi-Warriors. I mean, if you want top tier power, field an army of Druids, or Wizards, or Psions. If you think your army is going to be able to control the engagements, and rest when they run out of PP, then of course classes that burn those kind of resources will be better.

An Aegis is not the best class at anything. But it's in the top 2 or 3 for a lot of things, and can at least try its hand at anything. They are great in melee combat, okay at ranged. Good for scouting, and able to operate in almost any environment without magical support. For most fantasy armies that list of abilities is a wet dream. It's also almost independent of the stats of the character. High Int is helpful, but you could dump stat int, and it would just mean no bonus PP and no reconfiguring. If you were actually dealing with an army of NPCs with rolled or standard arrays, that's a big plus. If you get to hand every man jack in your army a chosen elite array, not so much.

For any specific task however, you can find someone better. A Marksman or Soulbow will be better at ranged. A psi-warrior can out burst or out tank one, until he runs out of PP. The martial initiator classes will have better maneuvers, particularly at higher levels at the archetype progression chart tops out.

As for the support classes, yeah probably. The Zealot is strong, but that much more due to his maneuvers and class abilities than his psionics. Tacticians and Vitalists are designed to work in small, tightly knit groups. For large forces, classes that can just radiate boosts like bards/marshals/dragon shamans, are, of course, going to be better. The real perk of the Zealot/Vitalist/Tactician is an built in comm network, that has pretty severe range limits until 15th level. If you are accurately depicting mass battles with communications lag and fog of war, they will be invaluable. Ironically however, the more you shrink from mass battle to D&D scale engagement, the more that utility fades, even as their regular abilities become more relevant.

In the end it's up to what you need, and want. I mean, it's D&D, if you want, you can field an army of mind controlled trolls equipped with items of fire resistance and vorpal swords, or beholder starships straight from the depths of 2e space.

[kalos72]

True.

With the ranges/crusaders I can "see" the power by the time we decided the equipment they would carry. Here, it's all under a veil.

If I threw the Aegis into the STP Erudite groups, using metaconcert, would they get almost unlimited PP? With the Affinity Field and Bestow Power, once the Aegis gets low on PP he falls back to the group and recharges. I am not really getting the math there but I will try this weekend.

Marksmen is just a better ranged then an Aegis, Ill check out Soulbow too.

[kalos72]

Is this math right for the STp/Constructor Trick?

Spends Donates Recvs NetGain
STP 11 8 30 19
Con1 8 6 32 24
Con2 8 6 32 24
Con3 8 6 32 24
Con4 8 6 32 24
Con5 8 6 32 24

Giving any Aegis in the Metaconcert 32 PP per round of "Bestow Power"?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Is this math right for the STp/Constructor Trick?

Spends Donates Recvs NetGain
STP 11 8 30 19
Con1 8 6 32 24
Con2 8 6 32 24
Con3 8 6 32 24
Con4 8 6 32 24
Con5 8 6 32 24

Giving any Aegis in the Metaconcert 32 PP per round of "Bestow Power"?
The STP erudite receives the same as all the others, being 6 + 6 + 6 + 6 + 8 = 32 points, putting net gain at 21 points. The weird-but-awesome thing about metaconcert (in 3.5, PF changed it, I believe) is that you get a separate entity that holds the power point reserve, has the increased save DCs, and so on. The erudite merely conducts the entity, they do not get the bonus for themselves.

Bestow power goes like this: You donate 2 points for every 3 you spend, and the total cost is reduced by 1 with the torc. The metaconcert entity receives all donations directly, and everyone else (erudite, constructors, aegis) gets the same amount through the affinity field.

[kalos72]

So if I add a bunch of Aegis, they would get the same amount even though they dont contribute?

[ExLibrisMortis]

So if I add a bunch of Aegis, they would get the same amount even though they dont contribute?
As long as they can fit within the affinity field, yes. That's why it's a stupidly powerful power :smalltongue:.

[kalos72]

Hmm, thats a range of 20 right? Thats tight for 6 people plus a bunch of Aegis...

Anyway to expand that range? I guess the constructors can move out of the field and let the Aegis in for a round of PP?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Hmm, thats a range of 20 right? Thats tight for 6 people plus a bunch of Aegis...

Anyway to expand that range? I guess the constructors can move out of the field and let the Aegis in for a round of PP?
Widen Power will increase the area. Since the range goes up and down as well as to the sides, you can layer them (they fly in formation)--easily room for twenty a hundred people within one affinity field*. The constructors have to remain within bestow power range of the metaconcert (20 ft.), and should probably also stay within the telekinetic sphere (which has a diameter of 1 ft./level) for safety.

I'm not sure, but maybe a group of tacticians can stay within the field, and use the flow of power points to buff a cohort of aegides?


The idea of a phalanx of aegides, supported from above by a sphere of tacticians, facing another phalanx of the same, is awesome. Two armies that will not fall until the beating psionic heart has been pierced and silenced.



*WolframAlpha (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=volume+of+20-foot-radius+sphere) gives the helpful comparison "≈ 0.38 × minimum volume of an Olympic-sized swimming pool ( 2500 m3 )"

[kalos72]

Now a phalanx of Aegides, THAT'S what I was looking for. Psionic sexiness...

I am still struggling with the Vitalist though...

And I think I am just going to go ranged with Energy Bows in the hands of the Aegis. with a Telekinetic Shield up, would I even bother with a ranged attack?

[Andor13]

Now a phalanx of Aegides, THAT'S what I was looking for. Psionic sexiness...

I am still struggling with the Vitalist though...

And I think I am just going to go ranged with Energy Bows in the hands of the Aegis. with a Telekinetic Shield up, would I even bother with a ranged attack?

Well, if you're feeding them 32 PP a round they can channel that straight into Empowered Blasts. At 12th level Improved Blast comes online, that could be 17d6+ fire/cold/electric/sonic a round to 3 creatures each, and it only goes up from there. What else are they going to do with those PP? Manifest a 2nd level ability as a 7th level manifester?

[kalos72]

Well, if you're feeding them 32 PP a round they can channel that straight into Empowered Blasts. At 12th level Improved Blast comes online, that could be 17d6+ fire/cold/electric/sonic a round to 3 creatures each, and it only goes up from there. What else are they going to do with those PP? Manifest a 2nd level ability as a 7th level manifester?

Can you break that down for me please? I am not following, although I am liking, your math :)

[Andor13]

Can you break that down for me please? I am not following, although I am liking, your math :)


At it's most basic 1 CP cost the suit can generate a ranged attack that's 1d8 x2 with a 30' range increment. That's better than a revolver, but not much by 10th level.
2 more points gives you Improved Ranged attack which is 3d8 x2 at 10th level, technically that's as powerful as a ballista you can full attack with, but still not that impressive.
2 more points can turn it into an energy attack which deals xd6 instead of xd8 and is a standard action, so no full attacking, but it now a ranged touch attack. (note that you can switch back and forth.)
1 more point into Empowered Blast let's you pour PP straight into the energy blast at 1PP = +1d6 capped by class level.

So in theory that's 13d6 of the energy of your choice as a ranged touch attack, not too shabby, but it's eating half your PP to do it. (Ignoring bonus PP.)

OTOH you also have access to up to 4th level maneuvers and stances. 2 points into Initiators Soul lets you grab Elemental Flux Stance for 2d6 Energy damage stacked onto any attack you make, plus secondary benefits including DR 5/Adamantine or Fast Healing 1.


So Ranged Attack (1 CP), Improved Ranged Attack (2 CP), Energy Blast (2 CP), 1 Empowered Blast (1 CP), Improved Energy Blast (3 CP), Initiators Soul (2 CP).

That's 11 CP out of 15 at 12th level. But it's giving you a 3d6 (Improved Ranged Attack Modified by Energy Blast) + 2d6 (Initiators Soul: Elemental Flux Stance) + 12d6 (12 PP from Empowered Blast) = 17d6 to 3 targets (Improved Energy Blast. That's your choice of Fire, Cold, Electricity, or Sonic vs Touch AC.

That's before magic items, feats or maneuvers. Normally that would represent not only a near total commitment of an Aegis's CP build, but also them novaing half their PP away in a single attack. But since you're pouring 32 PP a round into them from Metaconcert cheese, they can keep that up all day. Basically you're making a starcraft deathball.

Presumably the other 4 points are spent on Flight + Perfect Maneuverability so they can just hover around the force ball and project doom.

[kalos72]

Thank you Andor!

Presuming they are being fed PP from the Affinity Field, this is an awesome ranged NPC. If, given the other threads strategy of using a Telekinetic Field also, ranged attacks wouldn't work through the field correct?

In comes Burrowing Power Feat I guess...

The ranged guys wouldn't need to the Juggernaut and could get away with the Suit I am thinking.

How would you build the melee version of the Aegis?

[kalos72]

Also, the Extra Passenger ability comes into play here.

The Erudite and Constructors are all being carried by the Aegis, no need for the Telekinetic field really and thus the Borrowing Power feat.

[ExLibrisMortis]

The Erudite and Constructors are all being carried by the Aegis, no need for the Telekinetic field really and thus the Borrowing Power feat.
I don't know how that "being carried" works, but the telekinetic sphere is primarily there because it's a sphere of force, so it is impenetrable to virtually all attacks, including incorporeal and ethereal attackers that might try to sneak in and disable the affinity field. That you can fly with it is strictly a secondary concern.

[kalos72]

So here is the latest rendition, still WIP.

1st Squad
5x Aegis - Zealot
5x Aegis - Zealot
Marksman - Vitalist - Tactician



Class Outline
Male Aleithian Dwarven Aegis
12th level - Initiators Soul to get Maneuvers - Sleeping Goddess / Veiled Moon / Radiant Sun
Crystal Spaulders / Torc of Power Preservation
Female Mithril Elven Marksman
12th level - Energy Bows?
Female Half Giant Zealots
lv15 - unlimited range on collective
Female Elan Vitalists
Off Spec AC Summoner?
Male Forgeborn Tactician / Unifier
lv 15 unlimited range on collective


Collective Design
Zealot Collective All Aegis+All Zealots+Marksman+Tactician
Vitalist Collective All Aegis+All Zealots
Tactician Collective All Zealots+Vitalist